Reason Writers on MSNBC: Matt Welch Talks About Ron Paul and the Libertarian Bloc Within the GOP

On Monday, Feb. 14, Reason Editor in Chief Matt Welch went on MSNBC to talk about the possible meanings of Rep. Ron Paul's victory in the straw poll at the CPAC. Here's how it went down:

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  • ||

    Oh yeah, I can see an early GOP debate when Huck, Romney, Gingrich and Palin all line up against Ron Paul and the audience boos him again.

    Except no cross-dressing Ruby G this time.

    This whole crowd is a bunch of fucking bereft losers that even Satan himself - Roger Ailes - can't save for his hell-hole.

  • ||

    This whole crowd is a bunch of fucking bereft losers that even Satan himself - Roger Ailes - can't save for his hell-hole.

    Too many scotches?

  • Mr. FIFY||

    shrike is still upset over the fall of East Germany and the USSR.

  • Suki||

    Mr. FIFY +1

  • sevo||

    "Too many scotches?"
    Not enough brains.

  • Suki||

  • Binky||

    fucking bereft losers

    Good band name, but ridiculous comment.

  • Spiny Norman||

    I think I saw them open for the Snorting Huckabees.

  • Binky||

    Pretty sure Massive VeeJayJay opened for the Huckabees. Can't find documentation, though, sorry.

  • A. P. Wiggles||

    You're correct good sir. I was at the show and was roofied by the roadies for Rompin' Stompin' Romney.

  • ||

    I want back the 2 minutes I spent watching that imbecile rant.

    Is Shriek a MSNBC reporter?

  • The Thinking Man's NASCAR||

    I was disappointed that Matt passed up a golden opportunity to smack this guy down: last time I checked, my local police department wasn't paid for using the Federal income tax.

  • cynical||

    You should check harder, then.

  • Joe R.||

    Pay your 10% and get nothing back, and like it. You can't even drive on our roads. Walk to work (as long as you own all the property you walk on, of course).

    WTF did that asshole think the 10% was for? Extortion from those who wanted to be left alone? Oh wait...that probably is exactly what he thought.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    Holy shit. Is he supposed to be a news anchor? He sounds like a more liberal, less funny Jon Stewart.

  • -||

    Is he supposed to be a news anchor?

    No. After 4 P.M., MSNBC is entirely opinion programming. Before 4 it's opinion programming disguised as hard news.

  • Suki||

    It does not breathe enough for Matthews, but you may be on to something.

  • The Thinking Man's NASCAR||

    I'm pretty sure this Cenk guy isn't shrill enough to be a prime-time MSNBC host. I expect him to be canceled soon, possibly to be replaced with an air raid siren playing over bligee images mocking Sarah Palin.

  • Rudan||

    He's at Current News for now.

  • Spiny Norman||

    Dude, breathe.

  • Duncan D'Airy||

    And breathe something other than nitrous oxide.

  • Mensan||

    Might I suggest, carbon monoxide.

  • 99% of Hit and Run users||

    tl;dr

  • Almanian||

    word

  • ||

    I scroll down to find the joke.

    No joke. Fuuuuuuuuuuu

  • ||

    Winner of this week's "authentic gibberish" contest.

  • sevo||

    Max comes in 2nd?!

  • R||

    Max isn't allowed to compete; the contest is only for amateurs.

  • ||

    Authentic gibberish...another good name for a band.

    Not as good as "atavistic mustache" but still......

  • Suki||

  • Joe R.||

    TLDR

  • wef||

    Waste of time - and painful to watch. Please, Matt, ignore the fools.

  • ||

    I must know what drives you. Is it the anti-Semitism? Is it your hatred of making any sense whatsoever? Is it your insanity? I must know!

  • 99% of Hit and Run users||

    GO AWAY.

  • Almanian||

    ...on this, I cop to being a 1%er. It is fascinating to behold.

  • ||

    Really? I couldn't get past the first sentence. Seeing it was a long and likely incoherent rant, I didn't bother reading it. Brevity is the font of wisdom, or something like that.

  • Almanian||

    Oh, I didn't READ it - I just don't want it to "go away"...that's where I'm a 1%wer. I kind of like having them around...sometimes....for a little while...

  • ||

    Oh, I didn't READ it

    Whew, glad we got that cleared up. Next thing you will be telling us you miss The Commander.

  • ||

    I'm hoping that Matt or Radley (not sure who controls the Banhammer) will ban him. Also jubjubbird.

    I really don't need to be bothered scrolling past (let alone reading) anti-semitic filth.

    Let them go to their own website and spew there.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Incif. Works wonders.

  • Rock Action ||

    I miss The Commander. I'm cool with Hercule. His posts need to be shorter, though, or I don't have time to read them.

    I think one is nuts, and one is writing some scratch-ass, stanky underwear fiction with a dial-up modem with green text and no graphics - straight outta War Games. His third out of a precariously placed four monitors is dangerously close to falling on his head.

    I won't say which is which. I could also be very wrong. But this is how I like it.

    Underzog is okay. jubjubbird sucks immediate ass.

  • ||

    The subject matter reminds me of the Canadian program Trailer Park Boys. That show is effing hilarious.

  • Fiscal Meth||

    Who stole my lunch pepperoni?

  • sevo||

    "...on this, I cop to being a 1%er. It is fascinating to behold."

    You'd LOVE Powell and Market.

  • rather ||

    me too-he bookmarks my page

  • My God||

    you're a tiring, pickled cunt. Go cleanse yourself, please.

  • Rather||

    I need your tongue bitch

  • My God||

    Look at you come back for me, you dried up, useless hag. Your pitiful semi-existence pleases me.

  • rather||

    I love your cowardice-it says everything about you as a man

  • Suki||

    HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN now go away, seriously

  • Joe R.||

    TLDR

  • ||

    last time I checked, my local police department wasn't paid for using the Federal income tax.

    Stimulus, dude.

  • ||

    Of course, that stimulus money was borrowed from the Chinese printed by the Fed.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    "Oh but Palin came in what, 9th place?"

    Yeah, cause no one is honestly trying to get her to run for president. Why do lefties have such a thing against Palin? If they went 2 months without mentioning her she'd be a nobody.

  • sevo||

    "Why do lefties have such a thing against Palin?"

    Well, it's not really "against", it's sort of, well.......
    Have you looked at Pelosi recently? Probably answer your question.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    You think they're pulling her pigtails?

  • sevo||

    I think they'd love to, except she'd slap them silly.

  • db||

    And in a frightening case of parallel evolution, the sound of dry leaves rustling would freeze them solid in fear.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    Some of them might like that.

  • ||

    Hercule's deep understanding of trailer park economics makes me think he might be related to Shriek.

  • ||

    The is some top grade crazy right here. Top grade.

  • sevo||

    I was told years ago there's no such thing as 'one-hit' dope.
    HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN makes me wonder.

  • ||

    Has that freak who thinks he is Jesus, iinventedthevagina.com or something equally abusrd, (Nurta-sweets find, of course) discovered this board and started commenting here? I mean, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?!!

  • Jingles||

    I bookmarked his blog after the find; no posts there for two weeks. It's possible that he's reinvented himself to hide from the Bilderberg Nazis.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Th[at] is some top grade crazy right here. Top grade.

    Agreed. If HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN would only learn about bodily fluids and bizarre sex acts, his writing might even rival SugarFree's.

  • Fiscal Meth||

    What was the part about philosopher Henry Ford?

  • BakedPenguin||

    Jews selling dildos or something. I didn't catch it all.

  • Spiny Norman||

    Well. There you have it. No anti-Semitism there.

  • The Thinking Man's NASCAR||

    I think what we have here is another sad case of demonic possession, folks.

    Remember kids: friends don't let friends play with Ouija boards.

  • Binky||

    I know a fundamentalist Christian who received a Ouija board as a gift. He immediately burned it, and was gratified to hear the occupying evil spirit scream in the flames.

  • sevo||

    True story:
    I moved to SF in the late '60s (nope, no hippy). Answered the door not long after, only to be asked by a guy carrying copies of the Watchtower; 'Did [I] know the dangers of a Ouija board!?'
    I closed the door.

  • ||

    Would have been very tempted to say something like: "I make Ouija boards. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to the Pentagram before Ashmodeus gets loose."

  • Mr Whipple||

    One Sunday morning, after passing out on the living room floor, a couple Jehovah's Witnesses managed to wake me from my alcohol induced coma at about 8:00AM to tell me about the impending DOOM. I promptly told them that I worshiped the Devil, and the End was coming sooner than they thought.

  • Mr Whipple||

    One Sunday morning, after passing out on the living room floor, a couple Jehovah's Witnesses managed to wake me from my alcohol induced coma at about 8:00AM to tell me about the impending DOOM. I promptly told them that I worshiped the Devil, and the End was coming sooner than they thought.

  • Mensan||

    On two occasions, I've invited Jahovah's Witnesses in and tried to convert them to Pastafarianism, and/or atheism. I made one of them cry when I used some Dawkins on him. I think I actually got through to him, but I expect the re-brainwashing began as soon as he got out the door. His brother sat their looking really pissed off at me the whole time.

  • ||

    At least the Witnesses stood up to the Nazis.

    Not like the Catholic or Lutheran dicklickers.

  • R||

    My sister was "converted" to fundamentalist Christianity by one of her boyfriends and ended up burning her Oija board. Unfortunately, she didn't "de-convert" when he broke up with her.

  • db||

    Dude, I'd like to wire a ouija board to a posting app and see what happens. God help us if a a computer manages to summon a demon someday. Wait. maybe this "Triathalon" fellow is actually a massively parallel computer program. That would explain the use of the royal 'we.'

  • ||

    TRIATHALON is...AZORIAN BLUE HADES?

  • db||

    Wow. With the Halibut connection this thing has come full circle.

  • Towelie||

    When you go to the bottom of the ocean to retrieve an enemy submarine, and accidentally awaken an ancient monster-God from his deathless sleep...don't forget to bring a towel!

  • sevo||

    "maybe this "Triathalon" fellow is actually a massively parallel computer program."

    Well, Watson *did* tie........

  • Suki||

    Really, not kidding HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN go away

  • PantsFan||

    ...the aristocrats!

  • Mr Whipple||

    Whhaaaaaaattttttt the fffuuuucccccckkkkkkkkkkk???

  • jubjubbird||

    THE JEWS HAVE CONTROL OF THE COMBINE
    AND THE COMBINE IS?
    ALL THE LEVERS OF CONTROL - GOVERNMENT, BUSINESS, RELIGION.
    ALL ASPECTS, ALL LEVERS. THERE ARE THE JEWS, AT THE HELM, WITH THEIR USURY.
    YES! INTEREST - MAKING BOMBS, TRADING BOMBS, DROPPING BOMBS, LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THEIR BANK.
    THEY DO NOT PERMIT GOYIM ACCESS TO THE INNER CHAMBERS. THEY ARE THE GATEKEEPERS AND THE ARCHITECT. THE COMBINE.

  • sevo||

    Pretty sure HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN ain't hiring.
    But, hey...........

  • Suki||

    +1

  • Duncan D'Airy||

    Ah, but the concubine controls the combine.

  • Almanian||

    Word to your moms
    I came to drop bombs

  • cynical||

    So... Half Life 2 was some kind of veiled anti-semitic screed?

  • ||

    "AND THE COMBINE IS?
    ALL THE LEVERS OF CONTROL - GOVERNMENT, BUSINESS, RELIGION."

    Wrong!

    It's mostly just college players trying to show their skills off for the scouts.

    You know, the 40? Vertical Jump?

    There's a Wonderlic test, but that's mostly like geometry questions--nothing about GOVERNMENT BUSINESS OR RELIGION.

  • ||

    Space Lizards inhabit your dreams, don't they, Hercule?

  • dhex||

    this is the best zog-bot written. but can it pass the turing test?

    better yet, has it passed the underzog test?

  • RyanXXX||

    Jesus.

    H.

    Christ.

  • Suki||

    HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN really, not kidding. Stop it.

  • dhex||

    now *that's* rich.

  • jubjubbird||

    THE JEWS HAVE CONTROL OF THE COMBINE
    AND THE COMBINE IS?
    ALL THE LEVERS OF CONTROL - GOVERNMENT, BUSINESS, RELIGION.
    ALL ASPECTS, ALL LEVERS. THERE ARE THE JEWS, AT THE HELM, WITH THEIR USURY.
    YES! INTEREST - MAKING BOMBS, TRADING BOMBS, DROPPING BOMBS, LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THEIR BANK.
    THEY DO NOT PERMIT GOYIM ACCESS TO THE INNER CHAMBERS. THEY ARE THE GATEKEEPERS AND THE ARCHITECT. THE COMBINE.

  • jubjubbird||

    THE ISRAELIS DEMAND BLOOD SECURITY FROM AMERICA! THIS BLOOD SECURITY TREATY ENACTED IN 1948. NO REPUBLICANS, NO DEMOCRATS - SERVANTS TO TEL AVIV, JEW BOUGHT AND SOLD. USURY MEANS TO END OF BIG ISRAEL. AMERICA = BIG ISRAEL
    AMERICA = BIG ISRAEL
    BIG ISRAEL PROTECTS LITTLE "PURE" ISRAEL.

  • Ragin Cajun||

    OK, OK, which one is the Gatekeeper, and which one is the Keymaster?

  • ||

    Hey -- can you two predict the outcome of this year's World Series for me?

  • Almanian||

    Hey! I get it! You all are Joseph Smith reading dictating gold plates out of a hat, right?

    Or some thing?

    Bullwinkle did something like that...oh, he tried to pull a rabbit out of a hat, but it was a LION HEAD! HAHAHAHA! That crazy Bullwinkle! But that's nothing compared to translating gold plates (using the seer stones...or sear stones...sp? whatever)

    OK, I'll let you guys get back to "dictating the gold tablets out of a hat".

    *thumbs up*

  • Suki||

    You forgot about the salamander and/or the squirrel.

  • Ivan||

    Long live Bullwinkle and Rocky - for they do know what is truth.

  • Corey S.||

    Here's how you can tell when someone is either an idiot or arguing in bad faith: When they run a clip of Ron Paul saying you can opt into a system of paying 10% of income in taxes, and then immediately ask "How will you pay for cops?!!>!?!"

    I guess we should just be happy he gave Matt some time to speak.

  • Almanian||

    Hey, enjoy your ROADS, libertarian!

  • ||

    Speaking as somebody who's built a road or two, just for the record? It really does cost a lot more to build a road when the government builds it.

  • alan||

    I built my drive and a half mile of connection between it and a public road as well. Pretty damn cheap and meets all the codes. There is a guy on here who claims that there is very little margin for cost cutting in the public road sector, and not being a professional I don't get it, but the degree of corruption that has been uncovered in my state in relation to road construction tells me otherwise.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    Just the amount of traffic guys they have on one crew is an easy source of tens of thousands of dollars a year.

  • Almanian||

    Stimulus - it's CREATING JOBS!

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    I got groceries at Walmart today and when I passed the greeter I thought "why are liberals against this place, it's creating jobs for people so poorly qualified they just stand or sit by the door and say hi"

  • ||

    You answered your own question. They aren't interested in jobs for people so poorly qualified, they are interested in handouts for people so poorly qualified.

  • ||

    You answered your own question. They aren't interested in jobs for people so poorly qualified, they are interested in handouts for people so poorly qualified.

  • ||

    Fucking squirrels...

  • ||

    One of the reasons cities like to make developers build roads is because it costs so much less for a developer to do it.

    If the governments do it themselves? They have to use union labor; they have to abide by all kinds of rules, they get charged more for materials...

    Developers save cities and counties tons of money by building their roads for them--now that they're cash strapped, it's worse than ever too.

    Show me a city that's building its own roads right now, and I'll show you a city that cares more about its employees than it cares about its taxpayers.

  • ||

    Ken, cities don't just expect developers to build roads, they expect them to pay for them too.

    And, also, the contractors that build the roads for the developers are the same ones that build the roads under contract to the city.

    alan|2.14.11 @ 9:56PM|#
    I built my drive and a half mile of connection between it and a public road as well. Pretty damn cheap and meets all the codes.


    Your driveway and access road does not have to meet the same kind of engineering standards as a high speed expressway or arterial carrying thousands of vehicles a day at high speeds. Of course it was cheaper. if you were to take the individual unit prices of the materials used, you would find that cities get their stuff cheaper.

    That said, there is no doubt that graft and corruption play a huge role in added costs in government contracting, but the biggest causes of the increased costs involved in highway infrastructure are land cost and environmental compliance.

  • ||

    Also, I have only been in the road building game for about 45 years. I happen to like it and I work for whoever's paying.

    Sometimes it's government clients and sometimes private.

    I would prefer that roads were private but right now, most of them aren't.

    However, I doubt that roads would necessarilly be cheaper if private.

    The result of privatization, IMHO, would be better allocation of capital investment and a more rational imposition of costs on users.

  • ||

    Sometimes.

    They come to us and ask us to build something in lieu of fees.

    They do it because if they built the roads themselves, it would cost them a lot more than the fees they get from us.

    If there's a problem with a bridge? And we can fix it for them? They'd much rather we fixed it for them in lieu of fees than get the money for the fees.

    Our money gets a lot more done than theirs does.

    When I've priced out putting up light signals, it can cost them two to three times to put up traffic signals as it costs us to do the same thing. You don't want to reimburse the city for putting that stuff up if you can pay someone else to do it instead.

  • alan||

    Your driveway and access road does not have to meet the same kind of engineering standards as a high speed expressway or arterial carrying thousands of vehicles a day at high speeds.

    The vast amount of road actually laid is not the engineering marvels you describe but boring access points like mine. I don't contest what you describe is much more expensive through the nature of their purpose, but when I saw the town budget cost of a three mile strip of roadway like my own, it kind of blew my mind. Surely there are savings to be had as the situation is not unique.

  • Ivan||

    Personal experience. Many years ago a neighbor ( 2 properties over) was granted an easement across my property. Recently the neighbor between us tried to get a building permit, the county turned her down because she did not have legal access. I testified that the frontage road across my property was not restricted and she could use it as access. The county informed me (and her) that the road was only legal access for the guy 2 properties (Dwayne)down. Dwayne, being the stand-up guy that he is said let's make it a public/private road. The county informed us that to do so, the frontage road would have to be 30 feet wide ,paved and have a 12 foot shoulder on each side. The county road coming up here is 20 foot wide at the widest point with no shoulder and it is not even gravel - it's dirt. Dwayne commented that he wanted to be a good neighbor but he couldn't afford to be that 'good' of a neighbor.
    We'll build the roads, we'll build them good, we'll be the ones using them - we'll build them to suit our needs - we don't need the government telling us what we need.

  • alan||

    When the pigs stop shooting at my hovercraft while yelling, 'you got a license fer dat!', I'll stop fucking using them.

    Also, Turnpikes!

    Oh, that's right. They got nationalized, to create your roads, statist numbnuts!

  • Almanian||

    You need a better snark detector

  • ||

    I knew it was snark, but I know you...

    Still, things are getting so crazy; it's hard to tell sometimes when people are kidding.

    The joker that was interviewing Welch said basically the same thing you did--and he wasn't kidding at all.

    He was dead serious.

  • ||

    I mean, that one comment was basically, "So where you gonna drive without any roads, Ron Paul?"

  • ||

    Ron Paul doesn't need your statist roads. In Libertopia, it's all flying cars and jetpacks.

  • alan||

    You need a better snark detector

    Your facicious reader could use an update. I've been looking for an excuse for weeks to use that line, and you provided the first one.

  • alan||

    Also, I don't engage trolls, so that leaves only sympatico snark for those few occasions like above. Apologize for the misunderstanding.

  • ya||

    sure

  • Mr Whipple||

    If I'm not mistaken, and don't think that I am, the road I live on was paved by the builder of the development.

    Besides, we won't need roads once the Technological Singularity is achieved.

    http://singularity-2045.org/

  • Rather||

    Been there, they don't have good Chinese food

  • sounds real good||

    I think Matt had to try hard to suppress a smirk after the dude said that. He did a great job but I'm sure I saw something happening with his upper lip.

  • jubjubbird||

    JEWS?

  • sevo||

    All of 'em. I think.

  • TSA Agent||

    Now you know what the "pat downs" are really about.

    But I'll let Hercule take the credit.

  • Paul||

    There's a guy here making really long posts.

  • sevo||

    "There's a guy here making really long and stupid posts."
    FIFY

  • rather ||

    Matt you actually look good-not homeless/libertarian, and your day-old haircut looks neat and not 'weddingish'

    BTW, your reply on my blog was total bullshit-I will answer it.

  • Vermont Gun Owner||

    He makes me think Clark Kent from one of the older incarnations.

  • Rather||

    It's the Clark Kent glasses, and the 'I dressed in a phonebooth' look

  • Whappan?||

    Wojo wants his suit and tie back.

  • Rock Action ||

    Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up. Wojo pounds the floor. Andre Turner drives by for a lay-up.

  • Wayne Turner ||

    Fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

  • ||

    4chan internet memes are strictly prohibited here.

  • Bee Tagger||

    What is it that's going on off-camera on this guy's and Maddow's shows? They're always laughing at something and I can't ever figure out what it is.

  • TheOtherSomeGuy||

    No offense Mr. Welch, it wasn't your fault, but no wonder the 92 people who have commented on this thread tripled the number of people who actually watched it on TV.

  • ||

    Compared to this blathering MSNBC pundit, Matt is as erudite as William F. Buckley.

  • Rather||

    helle thanks for commenting on my site tonight

  • PantsFan||

    will you two just get it on off camera so the series gets moved to Friday's at 9, viewership trickles, and then the show becomes cancelled?

  • CE||

    William F. Who?

  • PantsFan||

    re: HERC TRIANGLE FUZZYPANTS

    what's with the square brackets "[]" around certain phrases? how do you pronounce those words? They're like extra-crazy scare quotes.

  • Rather||

    You're asking him questions? You are a braver woman than I am

  • jets2brazil||

    MugWumps Thank Paul After CPAC Win:

    http://consumptionblog.com/201.....wpoll-win/

  • Jason||

  • Elin||

    No thanks. I already have a set

  • ||

    Wow...that MSNBC host made Olbermann look good.

  • GILMORE||

    Who's the retard host of that MSNBC show?

    I'm so glad i dont have cable sometimes.

  • ||

    Is that a classic example of "backpfeifengesicht", or what?

    (German: a face badly in need of a fist)

  • ||

    All this talk in the comment section about road costs because of an ignorant flippant comment by Cenk about how would Ron Paul pay for roads in light of his 'opt-out' comment.

    Does anyone know where funding for roads come from or what the money is actually spent on? Of course not, because it's all over the place and no one ever reads the budgets. Money comes in from gasoline taxes, motor carrier taxes, licensing fees, and other user fees in the form of tolls which are supposed to pay for maintenance, but they're often just rolled into the general fund. Imagine that, just like Social Security.

    The entire DOT budget is around $79 billion.

    http://www.dot.gov/budget/2011.....lights.pdf

    The FAA is $16 billion.

    The Federal Highway Administration is about $42 billion. It's a quite literal spit in the bucket compared to the $3.7 trillion budget proposal. And Federal motor fuel excise taxes equates to about $30 billion in revenues. Imagine that. Hmmm.

    The budget of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration is about $570 million, half of which probably goes to producing their annual budget alone. Anyone care to even read that monster? It's quite enlightening.

    http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/docum.....Y_2009.pdf

    Bah, what am I thinking. Americans aren't interested in their government's budgets. Not nearly as much as the Soviets and the Chinese are.

    Anyway, Cenk goes off on Ron Paul as if he's a pure libertarian anarchist 'nutcase' and in doing so, in a classic liberal mindset, he deliberately blurs the line between what the Federal government is tasked to do and what the role of the state governments are (who unfortunately have delegated too many of their own responsibilities and authorities to the Feds but are now slowly taking them back). The question Ron Paul is trying to get us to ask is not how much does the Federal government cost, but as Matt aptly pointed out how much SHOULD it cost?

    I understand Matt's point when he infers that Ron Paul is using a bargaining tactic of asking for the whole pie when you only want a slice, however, I don't agree with what he says that what Ron Paul offers is the most radical version of libertarianism or limited government that's out there. The fact is that most libertarians are probably dead in the middle. Extreme right conservatives want to regulate the hell out of social behaviors, as does the extreme left progressives with their wealth redistribution schemes. Ron Paul has always appeared to me to be simply saying he just wants the Federal government to do what it's tasked to do in the Constitution, period - no more, and no less. What's so radical about that?

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