David Katz, M.D.: I Don't Get It, So It Should Be Banned

David Katz is a medical doctor (as his byline at The Huffington Post proudly announces) with a limited imagination (as he reveals in a recent essay). That combination (along with his MPH) makes him ideally suited to run Yale University's CDC-funded Prevention Research Center, which looks for ways to stop people from doing things that David Katz thinks are bad for them. Things like mixing alcohol with caffeine:

The writing would seem to be on the wall for Four Loko and other beverages that combine alcohol and caffeine, as the FDA considers an outright ban of the combination. Anyone who is for sanity and safety in marketing should read it and cheer, not weep.

Combining alcohol and caffeine is—in one word—crazy. Don't do it! It has an excellent chance of hurting you, and a fairly good chance of killing you....

The commercial products at the center of the current scandal combine highly concentrated alcohol—the equivalent of five beers in a single can—with a full mug of coffee's worth of caffeine. Before the can is set down, you are inebriated, but too wired on caffeine to know it.

It's hard to imagine any argument for such products—except that selling them makes money for someone. So does selling heroin and cocaine, which are also very bad ideas.

It's also hard to imagine anyone objecting to a ban of such products, although the strong "keep the government out of my business" sentiment that runs through our society suggests that some will find cause to do so. In response to any objections, I can only ask: Where would you draw the line? Should the government stay out of the crack, heroin, and angel dust business as well, and simply let the peddling of such wares take their place in a free market economy? If there is any line at all over which dangerous products that generate unscrupulous profits at the cost of human life should be banned—caffeinated alcoholic beverages are over it.

Combining caffeine and alcohol is, indeed, crazy. It can be lethally crazy, so it's a mistake you may not get to make twice. So don't make it even once. I recall a poster I had hanging on my dorm room in college that read: "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment." We do all need to learn by trying. But unfortunately bad judgment that kills you does not lead to good judgment—it leads only to whatever final judgment we are destined to face, and the anguish of those left behind.

Although The Huffington Post is ostensibly intended for adults, Katz's clueless condescension (and exclamation points!) would offend even a reasonably bright 11-year-old. It is enough to turn you against "sanity and safety" once and for all. Unlike Katz, I do not have an M.D., but I do not think his assertion that anyone who dares to drink an Irish coffee or a rum and coke must be insane qualifies as a medical judgment. As evidence that drinking such a "crazy" combination "has an excellent chance of hurting you, and a fairly good chance of killing you," Katz offers a single datum: an accident in which a 21-year-old who had been drinking Four Loko died after slamming her pickup truck into a telephone pole. He also falsely claims that Four Loko contains "highly concentrated alcohol," when in fact the product, at 12 percent alcohol by volume, is less potent than Chardonnay.

Katz's economic and political analysis is about as strong as his scientific reasoning. He cannot "imagine any argument for such products—except that selling them makes money for someone." But to make money by selling a product requires people who want to buy it, and those people, unlike Katz, clearly see some value in Four Loko and its competitors. Katz likewise finds it hard to "imagine anyone objecting to a ban of such products." In addition to the aforementioned consumers who willingly exchange their money for caffeinated malt beverages, some people believe there is value in letting others indulge such incomprehensible tastes, based on a principled (and self-interested) commitment to liberty. As Katz evidently would be surprised to learn, that commitment extends not only to products that the government banned last week but also to products that the government banned decades ago.

Previous coverage of the Four Loko panic here.

[via Stanton Peele at Psychology Today]

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  • T||

    5 beers in a can? Must be a big goddamned can if it's only 12% ABV.

  • BakedPenguin||

    They're 23.5 oz. cans. So one would be the equivalent of 4.7 twelve ounce 5% beers.

  • robc||

    I think its a double sized can. So I guess 24 oz, although I thought I heard 32 somewhere.

  • WasabiPeas||

    3.2

  • Virginia||

    Guess he doesn't drink big beers.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    What if I chug four beers and then slam a mug of coffee?

    Other than the fact that I would very soon have to piss like a racehorse, of course.

    According to the good doctor, I'd be dead anyhow, I guess.

  • ||

    That's INSANE!

  • Lefty4Life||

    You will be too alert to know how drunk you are!!!

  • Corduroy||

    I believe it was SugarFree who pointed me to the science fiction novel We.

    The parallels between that satirical society and our current path are really creepy. Especially when you consider that Zamyatin wrote it in the early twentieth century.

  • Dick Fitzwell||

    We is great. I definitely recommend it!

  • IceTrey||

    "Should the government stay out of the crack, heroin, and angel dust business as well, and simply let the peddling of such wares take their place in a free market economy?"

    Uh, ya.

  • ||

    I've no problem with the government prosecuting sellers of cocaine if the label claims it is heroin or angel dust.*

    * Don't try to get down with the street lingo, doc. It's PCP or phencyclidine.

  • ||

    Is it just me, or are we about to be taken over by an army of strawmen? What a dumbass...how 'bout we start with a line that runs approximately parallel to the "legal/illegal" border. Last I checked, both alcohol and caffeine were legal, unregulated substances.

    Once we get this figured out, we can work on moving that legal/illegal line around...

  • Kristen||

    Alcohol, unregulated?!?!? Which country do you live in?

  • omg||

    He must live in the gumdrop hills region of the lollipop kingdom, because in the country I live in, purveyors of alcohol for cleaning/industrial purposes have to intentionally poison it so that it will kill anyone who tries to drink it. That sounds like a regulation and a half to me, and that is only one of them.

  • ||

    First rule of business: don't kill your customers.

  • ||

    Yes, it's pretty baffling - denatured alcohol. The idea that you feel so compelled to prevent people from drinking unapproved alcohol that you force solvent makers to make their product toxic so that it will certainly kill any wino who is so desperate for a drink they will drink anything. It is an incredibly obscene value system. Likewise, certain narcotic drugs must contain a certain portion of a far more toxic component so that anyone who is stupid enough to use excess amounts won't merely get very stoned, but will be sickened to death for using it recreationally.

  • ||

    Remember, the left supports drug legalization. That's why HuffPost posts an editorial that assumes anyone who wants to legalize drugs is insane.

  • Jigga Wha?||

    Winning comment at the HuffPo:

    That's why I prefer cocaine with my vodka.

  • robc||

    However, learn from Stevie Ray Vaughn and dont mix your cocaine with coffee. Also, something about helicopters.

  • BakedPenguin||

    I'm reminded of Pat Travers - Snortin' Whisky, Drinkin' Cocaine.

  • Spartacus||

    Drinking cocaine is OK. Snorting whiskey, however, hurts like hell.

    (PS--saw Travers live in orlando back when that song was a hit. 1983, IIRC.)

  • BakedPenguin||

    At Fern Park Station, or could he command bigger venues at the time?

  • Spartacus||

    It wasn't a very big venue. It was a club somwehere around SR 50 and Alafaya. Probably not there anymore. The place was a lot less built up back then...course, I can remember even earlier when UCF was FTU.

  • Wind Rider||

    Credentialed, but not educated. Dumber than a dirt clod is more like it. It wouldn't be fair to call this guy a rock, as one can at least use a rock to prop a door open.

  • Almanian||

    Combining alcohol and caffeine is—in one word—crazy. Don't do it! It has an excellent chance of hurting you, and a fairly good chance of killing you....

    I've probably been closer to death THAN I EVER KNEW! Thanks for the warning, Dr. Douche!

    I'd pay more attention to you if you weren't an authoritarian fuck, and didn't look like a GI Joe With Lifelike Hair, sans beard. Fucking pussy.

  • Colin||

    First they came for the Four Loko, and I didn't speak out because I didn't drink Four Loko.
    . . .

  • Nick D.||

    Pretty easy to get 5 servings of alcohol in an irish coffee. Five shots of whiskey + a full cup of joe apparently = death!!!

    Seriously, are we going to ban any combination of alcohol and caffeine going forward, or just those in cans with bright colors? Outrageous!!

  • Joe R.||

    Mmm, now you have me craving some sweet, delicious death.

  • BenDU99||

    "Where would you draw the line? Should the government stay out of the crack, heroin, and angel dust business as well, and simply let the peddling of such wares take their place in a free market economy?"

    Yes.

  • ||

    Well, the good news is this moron probably isn't seeing any actual patients, given his academic/nanny role.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Considering what a douche he is, he'd probably attract sniveling whelps who need an authoritarian to tell them what to do.

    Shortening their lifespans would be a public service.

  • waffles||

    I drank two yesterday. I'm not proud of myself, but I'm not ashamed either. However, I was hungover in a very unpleasant way.

  • Fluffy||

    Once we're protected from scary alcohol and caffeine drinks, what government agency will step up and save us from having the impulse to wear a black T shirt with a sports jacket?

    Will NO responsible government agency or control board do the right thing and save us all from FUCKINGDOUCHEBAGITIS?

  • jacob||

    Yes, it does look fucking stupid

  • Fluffy||

    This man wants to use the police power to force me to live in conformity with his preferences, and he

    WEARS A MOTHERFUCKING BLACK T SHIRT WITH A SPORTS COAT.

    Why not just fucking wear antlers on your head and then come around telling me how you're going to use the police power to improve my choices?

  • ||

    I like that look. You can tell he's a man who doesn't follow the trends, he sets them. I myself have been known to wear a gray turtleneck with a sport coat on particularly creative nights.

    Also, he could probably wear a clown suit and still get more tail than the average H&R reader because of his suffix.

  • phryxian houndmaster||

    The alcohol makes such educated imbeciles tolerable. The caffeine makes consciousness with 110 proof blood attainable. The geodon makes it possible not to view these bans as personal persecution. If I take all 3 at once the shapeshifting lizard people win.

  • Contrarian P||

    "Unlike Katz, I do not have an M.D., but I do not think his assertion that anyone who dares to drink an Irish coffee or a rum and coke must be insane qualifies as a medical judgment."

    Like Katz, I do have an MD, and he's an idiot. People have been mixed alcohol and caffeine for years. There are no studies published in peer reviewed journals that I know of that show that combining caffeine with alcohol is in any way more dangerous than the two drugs independent of each other.

    The case against this particular beverage has to do with the fact that it's suddenly popular with college kids. It's the same lynch mob that gets all riled up every few years over some threat, frequently a figment of their imaginations, that is doing alleged irreparable harm to our nation's youth. I work in an emergency room in a town with two decent sized colleges in it and have yet to see any morbidity that I could attribute to this beverage, nor have I heard of any. Just for corroboration, I asked some of my colleagues in other states and they likewise drew a blank. The accounts that I've read concerning the alleged harms done by the drink generally cite cases where the damage could not even remotely reasonably be linked to what was consumed. In other words, Katz is an idiot. Unfortunately, he's an idiot with a lot of company in this country.

  • Contrarian P||

    Should have been "people have mixed". Damn Reason's eyes! And the lack of an edit button.

  • Robert||

    Oh, I don't know...I kind of like the idea of caffeine and alcohol people.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    But...but he's a DOCTOR! And he clearly states, with great confidence, that alcohol is a depressant, while caffiene is a stimulant, and that if you drink them together, you WON'T KNOW YOU'RE DRUNK!!

    Oh my fucking knickers!! The danger!!

    Think of teh CHILDRENS!!!11!

  • Hobie Hanson||

    "I do have an MD"

    Sorry, I'll take the word of a verified MD speaking to a respectable news source over that of a random guy on the Internet, who might be a janitor for all I know, posting in the comments section of a backwater political blog.

  • Contrarian P||

    Go right ahead. And when I start caring about impressing you, I'll worry. And since when is the Huffington Post a respectable news source? Did I miss something? Perhaps you should do what I did, which is check to see if any medical research has been done on the subject. Just because someone has an MD degree does not make him an expert on all things medical. He's not a toxicologist. He's a preventative medicine specialist. He's not basing his opinion on any peer reviewed research either. But then again, since he's got MD behind his name and he's on the internet, he must be right, whatever he says, correct?

    To give you some insight into his level of awareness, he maintains that the caffeine equivalent of one cup of coffee will string you out so much that you won't be aware that you're drunk. Ever had an Irish Coffee? That is also the equivalent of one cup of coffee, and I doubt seriously that any reasonable person would maintain that they are too strung out from that to notice the whiskey affecting them. Kids who are downing Machiattos from Starbucks and cans of Red Bull are seriously vulnerable to being taken down by one cup of coffee? This is the medical authority in whom you are putting your trust. Try thinking for yourself sometime. It helps.

  • Contrarian P||

    Oh, and lest I forget, you are among those tho whom I was referring.

  • Contrarian P||

    "to whom". Damn.

  • Another doc||

    Preventative medicine specialists are professional nannies. They get paid to overreact to stupid stuff. I'd trust anecdotal accounts from an anonymous ER doc over him any day.

  • PicassoIII||

    Throw in the MPH and it pretty much ensures someone will become the worst kind of professional fearmonger.

  • jacob||

    Does anyone else remember the beer on the Drew Carey show?

    Stay up and get drunk all over again

  • ||

    Buzz Beer!

  • Xenocles||

    Drew Brew!

  • ||

    I used to drink rum and cokes like they were about to be banned by assholes like this. I also have been drunk on beer, bourbon, and several other alcoholic beverages that I can't remember. There was no difference between the sensation of incoherence I often found myself in because I was also imbibing caffeine with the R&Cs;. I don't recommend drinking the ridiculous amounts of booze I used to drink. But it was my choice, and I am not dead, yet. If I was "crazy" it was the same craziness that all young people suffer from. A proclivity for having fun. Dipshit!

  • Max||

    I'd like to ban libertarian assholes who seek out the most outrageous nonsense and write about it ad nauseam. If being a smug self-important dicless fuck could kill, Sullum would have been dead years ago. Kiss my ass, Liberty Jake.

  • Bill||

    It's the equivalent of 10 Bud Select 55's !!

    It's the equivalent of two strong (2 shots each) rum and cokes using full cans of coke.

    So, it's like any other alcoholic drink: If you have too many you will become inebriated.

    I've had a cup of coffee when I've been drinking and I don't notice the coffee has any effect.

  • nekoxgirl||

    Max, I kind of think a guy that wastes his time commenting on blogs written by people he thinks are "libertarian assholes who seek out the most outrageous nonsense and write about it ad nauseam" would be the more pathetic of the two.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Yeah. If only there were some place you could send people who disagreed with you and your clearly well-intentioned interference. Somewhere secluded, like a camp. A camp for people who were poorly educated and needed have their education redone, almost like a...reeducation. A camp for reeducation of the heartless libertarians who obviously don't know Four Loko is a foul concoction squeezed straight from the Devil's Teat by evil corporashuns.

  • barfman||

    /chugs Four Loko

    *baaarrrrfffffffff*

  • Yay!||

    That was downright laugh-out-loud funny. LOL!

  • Spartacus||

    The only surprise here is that he was able to get his asinine commentary in ahead of Sanjay Gupta.

  • ||

    As a doctor, Sanjay will be pretty upset, being a doctor and all. Did I mention that he's a doctor?

  • Alex||

    The Korova Milkbar was a milk-plus mesto, and you may, O my brothers, have forgotten what these mestos were like, things changing so skorry these days and everybody very quick to forget, newspapers not being read much neither. Well, what they sold there was milk plus something else. They had no licence for selling liquor, but there was no law yet against prodding some of the new veshches which they used to put into the old 4Loko, so you could peet it with vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom or one or two other veshches which would give you a nice quiet horrorshow fifteen minutes admiring Bog And All His Holy Angels and Saints in your left shoe with lights bursting all over your mozg. Or you could peet milk with knives in it, as we used to say, and this would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of dirty twenty-to-one, and that was what we were peeting this evening I'm starting off the story with.

  • ||

    +1

  • Kristen||

    So what abou the mix of stimulant and depressants in my cold medicine? You know, the ol decongestant vs. antihistamine?

  • Yay!||

    CAGE MATCH! IN YOUR STOMACH!

  • Planet Moron||

    Of course, I had to buy some and downed a can last night. I should point out that I spent Saturday morning guzzling Irish coffees before a football game (Dunkin' Donuts "Box O'Joe" makes an excellent vehicle for this) so I'm no stranger to such lethal combinations. The result? Well, like you're consuming a drink with alcohol and caffeine.

    Oh, the taste is absolutely revolting, a vile, cloying sweetness, but beyond that, the only unique threat Four Loko holds to public health is probably to diabetics.

  • ||

    Every once in a while something in real life reminds me of passages 1984 where the state run media blithely revises history and everyone is expected to pretend they don't remember.

    The caffiene plus alcohol media panic is one of those moments.

    No matter that we've all been drinking Rum and coke and irish coffees for over a century, and been mixing red bulls with vodka for at least a decade. No matter that Fred Flintstone used to down cups of coffee to sober up before driving home in his rockmobile. Suddenly it's an authoritative medical truth that mixing these two substances is dangerous and crazy.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    Good point Hazel. I think you should contact the FDA to alert them to the dangers of bars offering unadulterated coffee to their patrons who have been drinking. How can that loophole still exist?

  • libertarian democrat||

    Okay, so this guy is retarded. I'm currently a medical student, which does not make me an expert, just embarassed to share a profession with this guy.

    I don't think one can responsibly, even remotely, say that combining caffeine and alcohol has "a fairly good chance of killing you".

    That's a fucking odd definition of a fairly good chance. I'd say, more like, in moderation, nearly zero chance.

  • Ray Pew||

    Okay, so this guy is retarded. I'm currently a medical student, which does not make me an expert, just embarassed to share a profession with this guy.

    I don't think one can responsibly, even remotely, say that combining caffeine and alcohol has "a fairly good chance of killing you".

    That's a fucking odd definition of a fairly good chance. I'd say, more like, in moderation, nearly zero chance.

    Katz is full on retarded. I did a Pubmed search to look for studies concerning the effects of caffeine and alcohol and came up with very little. Katz is the typical agenda driven idiot who realizes that the fallacy of authority is all one needs to make an argument. Facts be damned.

    Ironically, the Lefty HuffPovians aren't even agreeing with his column.

  • ||

    Oh, and nevermind the grwoing scientific evidence that caffiene doesn't actually make you any more alert after all.

  • ||

    Really? Do you have links? (Not being combative, just genuinely curious.) There has long been a sensible biochemical explanation of the effects of caffeine on adenosine receptors in the brain, so disproving the effects on alertness would require some serious evidence.

  • ||

    Well, actually it's more that you develop a tolerance. Once that happens, you're drinking the coffee just to avoid the withdrawal effects.

  • Ray Pew||

    It's also hard to imagine anyone objecting to a ban of such products, although the strong "keep the government out of my business" sentiment that runs through our society suggests that some will find cause to do so. In response to any objections, I can only ask: Where would you draw the line? Should the government stay out of the crack, heroin, and angel dust business as well, and simply let the peddling of such wares take their place in a free market economy?

    I love the condescending argument by statists, who think that the "government should stay out of my business" meme is just self-evidently absurd and a relic from less enlightened times.

    If there is any line at all over which dangerous products that generate unscrupulous profits at the cost of human life should be banned—caffeinated alcoholic beverages are over it.

    If Four Loko is where the line is to be drawn, then I must assume that pools will be next, followed by peanuts, and finally by shiny buttons.

  • ||

    Well who else thinks the government should stay out of their business ? Right wing wackos, that's who. Militia men, gun nuts, Birthers...Tea Partiers. So sure, if you're one of those nuts, go ahead and disagree.

  • shorter Mainer||

    Concern troll is concerned.

    For the chilluns.

  • Missy||

    Combining caffeine and alcohol sex is, indeed, crazy. It can be lethally crazy, so it's a mistake you may not get to make twice. So don't make it even once.

    FTFY

  • ||

    Do you know who else liked caffeine mixed with alcohol?

  • nekoxgirl||

    Was it the Nazis? I bet is was the Nazis!

  • Hacha Cha||

    Fuck the Safety Society. Even if you want to be a safety nut then you should be encouraging people to consume caffeine with alcohol, scientific evidence shows it prevents and lessens liver damage.

  • Tym||

    Is that true? I have heard that it lessens hangovers.

  • Pope Jimbo||

    I feel sorry for the pasty white college kids. How are they going to learn the delights of drinking malt liquor now that 4L is banned?

    Heaven forbid they make any black friends who can turn them on to Old English 800's or Colt 45's.

    I've tried the 4L just to see what all the fuss is about and it is just a fruity malt liquor.

  • Gritz||

    I particularly enjoy King Cobra if i do say so myself

  • ||

    Well my theory is that a lot of what is driving the hysteria is the fear of black and hispanic youth and their demon malt liquor.

    I'm guessing the majority of the kids drinking four loko aren't middle class suburban white kids. They're probably the kids that middle class suburban white people find frightening when they encounter them drunk on a city street.

  • Kolohe||

    Katz: All your booze are belong to us.

  • Mark||

    Wow, for thirty years one of my favorite drinks has been coffee with a shot of whiskey in it, and I had no idea it was instantly turning me crazy.

  • ||

    "Combining alcohol and caffeine is—in one word—crazy. Don't do it! It has an excellent chance of hurting you, and a fairly good chance of killing you...."

    Sounds like bullshit to me, but even if it isn't, it's your business, exactly how?

    "The commercial products at the center of the current scandal combine highly concentrated alcohol—the equivalent of five beers in a single can"

    I'm a Southerner, Son. Five beers ain't shit, ya pussy.

    "a full mug of coffee's worth of caffeine."

    Full mug, huh? I guess bacon and cigarettes are off the table, then.

    "Before the can is set down, you are inebriated"

    Awesome.

    "but too wired on caffeine to know it."

    I knew there had to be a downside.

    "It's hard to imagine any argument for such products—"

    Like personal liberty?

    "except that selling them makes money for someone."

    Fucking Corporate America, man. Having money sucks. That's why you're an MD. Now, cough.

    "It's also hard to imagine anyone objecting to a ban of such products"

    Because you're a fucking idiot with no imagination, apparently.

    "the strong "keep the government out of my business" sentiment that runs through our society"

    Evil, liberty loving assholes. Imagine that.

    "Should the government stay out of the crack, heroin, and angel dust business as well, and simply let the peddling of such wares take their place in a free market economy?"

    Yep. In addition, I would argue that if the war on drugs weren't artificially inflating the price of coke, crack wouldn't even exist.

    "If there is any line at all over which dangerous products that generate unscrupulous profits at the cost of human life should be banned—caffeinated alcoholic beverages are over it."

    I don't think so, but I believe in liberty. Is there a line at which you would consider ANY profits, scrupulous, you statist douche?

    "Combining caffeine and alcohol is, indeed, crazy"

    You're late with that observation. There was a comedian in the 80's, whose name escapes me, who described it as "Drunk, but awake to enjoy it... Incredibly sick, with no hope of passing out."

    ""Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgment.""

    But, Dr. Katz stupidity is genetic.

    "We do all need to learn by trying. But unfortunately bad judgment that kills you does not lead to good judgment—it leads only to whatever final judgment we are destined to face, and the anguish of those left behind."

    Darwin validated, indeed.

  • Dr. David L. Katz||

    Dear Jacob-

    If violence is the last recourse of the incompetent, it is tempting to wonder what ad hominem attacks on 'straw men' in cyberspace might be.

    Irish coffee is not sold pre-packaged in cans emblazoned with marketing collateral very clearly directed at youth (I trust you have actually seen a Four Loko can? You recognize that the marketing is not directed at you, or your followers on this site, right?). Irish coffee is made at home, or in a bar- and served to adults. The drinks currently under scrutiny are very clearly marketed to young adults- if not underage drinkers- with a sole intent of helping them get drunker than they otherwise might manage.

    Since you malign the statistical significance of the single death I cite, I respectfully ask a question of you: what mortality rate would you require before having second thoughts about these products, and the focus of their well-funded marketing?

    A very happy thanksgiving to you and yours-
    DK

  • Tulpa||

    Irish coffee is made at home, or in a bar- and served to adults.

    Are you claiming it's impossible for underage drinkers to make Irish coffee at home? Yes, they would need to illegally obtain whiskey to make Irish coffee, but obtaining Four Loko is just as illegal for an underage person.

    The drinks currently under scrutiny are very clearly marketed to young adults- if not underage drinkers- with a sole intent of helping them get drunker than they otherwise might manage.

    I suspect the intent of Four Loko's manufacturer's marketing is to sell as many cans of it as possible. What adult buyers intend to do with it after purchase is none of the manufacturer's concern (or yours for that matter).

    Since you malign the statistical significance of the single death I cite, I respectfully ask a question of you: what mortality rate would you require before having second thoughts about these products, and the focus of their well-funded marketing?

    Oh, I have "second thoughts" about these products regardless of mortality rate. I wouldn't consume them and would discourage others from doing it either, not from fears of death-by-Loko but rather from concern over the terrible taste and the next morning's monster hangover. Thing is, I usually don't respond to second thoughts by attempting to ban something.

  • hmm||

    Are we banning Vodka and Redbull mixed drinks next? I distinctly don't remember more than one bender in Vegas fueled by Vodka and Redbull. I think I even lost some money. I must be a menace to myself. Can you help me see the light?

  • What?||

    I am a physician. Yes, Mr. Sullum, you are not an MD and you are wrong. We have lots of things to actually take care of and have very limited time to play with words like you can. Go to medical school if you want to argue with respected physicians like david katz.

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