Helen Thomas, and the Awkward Transfer From "Straight" Reporting to Opinioneering

Since we haven't run the video here yet, here's the ancient White House correspondent-turned-columnist Helen Thomas celebrating Jewish Heritage Month by telling Israelis (via a camera-wielding interlocutor) to go back to Poland and Germany:

Under heavy criticism (including from the White House), Thomas today announced her retirement.

As a fellow ex-UPIer and someone who greatly enjoyed a wine-drenched evening in Thomas' company 16 years ago (during which she told me, tears in her eyes, that Bill Clinton's disrespect for the office was worse than any of the presidents she'd covered), I am tempted to feel bad for an 89-year-old lady getting caught in what might be passed off as a senior moment, but there's no reason to believe that her statement and tone don't reflect her basic views.

They also, I believe, reflect an interesting, under-appreciated, and ultimately impermanent media phenomenon: The longer someone is submerged in what they and their organizations regard as traditional "straight" reporting, the more gruesome the results are when the gloves come off. As Thomas herself reportedly said in a 2002 speech, "I censored myself for 50 years.... Now I wake up and ask myself, 'Who do I hate today?'"

Straight reporters have been taught for six decades to submerge or even smother their political and philosophical views in the workplace. Like all varieties of censorship, this process creates resentment and distortion. Whatever it is that you feel prevented from saying, you will be more likely to scream once given the chance. This is why, for example, some of the most politically opinionated people you'll ever meet are newspaper reporters a couple drinks in out yakking with their colleagues.

Degrading the quality of that discussion still further is the likelihood that the partisanship-averse journos haven't bothered to construct their own self-conscious political philosophy, beyond identifying Bad Guys and wanting to Fix Problems. Show me the world's most intractable problems–the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the inability to produce mass amounts of energy without negatively impacting the environment, the search for a beer that tastes great and is less filling–and I'll show you reporters in bars having conversations worthy of the Alex Jones show. It's not that they're all Helen Thomases–she is truly one of a kind–but that in the absence of subjecting their own beliefs to journalistic rigor, they are more likely than many would expect to quietly nurture beliefs that outsiders would find surprisingly slanted and even extreme. 

For these and other reasons, when straight reporters transition to opinion journalism, one of the first things to go is the "journalism" part of it. Now they can say what they really feel, dammit, and what they really feel is that the Bad Guys are preventing us from Fixing Problems. There's no longer any need to grok the Bad Guy's point of view. Think of what happened to longtime Associated Press/CNN reporter Peter Arnett, for example, or just read the latest political musings from the once-straight war correspondent Chris Hedges. I saw this process repeatedly at the L.A. Times, when newsroom lifers would tranfer to the Opinion Dept. and immediately begin producing pieces that sounded like an activist's fundraising letter, caricutarizing the opposing side's absolutely worst argument.

All of which is why I wish even the straightest-edge news outlets would follow Reason's still-lonely example and show us (at minimum) who their staffers are voting for. Newspapers are more terrified that the public will realize how biased their reporters are than they are at continuing to publish work contaminated by suppressed political leanings and resentments. With the advent of blogs, social media, and other boomlets of cultural expression, and the deserved market decline in what press-thinker Jay Rosen has derisively termed "the view from nowhere," the mask has long since begun to slip and crack. Hopefully, the current generation of reporters entering the market will have figured out how to pursue fair journalism without hiding their beliefs, and to speak in whatever public fora without fatally undermining their work.

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  • Come on Matt||

    Tell us what you really think!

  • Suki||

    THREADWARNING! Don't play the drinking game with Johy Walkr! I'm just hoping beloved arrivs bfre a biker gang drivs bye.

  • Mike M.||

    It's being reported that she has just "retired".

  • Matt Welch||

    That's in the post.

  • Mike M.||

    Sorry. In any event, good riddance to that Nazi piece of crap.

  • ed||

    You knew it was only a matter of time when Thomas started calling mass-murderers "so-called terrorists."

  • chris||

    How long until Al-Jazeera makes her an offer?

  • EVL29||

    Pretty sure Al-BBC already has.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Andy Borowitz reports that she is the new spokeswoman for BP.

  • ||

    maybe they can get a survivor of the U.S.S. Liberty to stand in for her address.

  • ||

    Jesus, the U.S.S Liberty? You're still trying to bang that drum, you pathetic anti-Semite cave dweller? Why not complain about all those well the jews poisoned or about how they control the world with their banks?

    Scumbag.

  • Suki||

    +1

  • ||

    Let us be very clear: the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was no accident and absolutely unacceptable. The Israelis in question should all have been cashiered and jailed.

    One does not have to pretend the attack on the Liberty was not the act of war that it was, however, to realize it is in AMERICAN interests to support Israel today and that the kind of anti-Semitism Helen Thomas displays is repugnant, perfectly legal in our free society, but vile nonetheless.

  • ||

    Ok, let us get this straight, what Helen Thomas said was not anti-semitic. What she said was anti-occupation. Zionism is not an ally with the Catholic Church.

    The Catholic Church teaches that all humans by virtue of their being are entitled to their unalienable rights. That includes Jews and gentiles alike.

    What has clouded our thinking is the Dispensationalisms notion that the modern state of Israel has something to do with the Hebrews of the Old Testament and prophesies of the end times. It doesn't. Catholics need to avoid falling into this trap. Both Dispensationalism and Zionism are fictions created by enlightenment Freemasonry thought.

    You will take note that when the last two popes have journeyed to the Middle East, there was no referring to the journey as a trip to Israel. It was called a pilgrimage to the "Holy Land". What makes it a holy place is what Jesus did there 2000 yrs ago, not what a group of atheists from Europe are doing there now.

    Jews are the rejectors of Jesus and therefore the rejectors of God. This is a theological rejection and has nothing to do with genetics. They are entitled to the same regard as any human being by virtue that they are a part of the greatest of God's creation, that is Man.

    If the modern nation of Israel collapses, God will still be God and all mankind including the Jews will have to accept Jesus Christ and his Church to expect salvation.

    Kindest Regards.

  • ebsta||

    hahahaha the u.s.s. liberty. so you´re automatically are an anti-semite for mentioning the liberty. some jews are entertainingly neurotic. but that´s okay. i´m on y´all´s side. i hate all the israel haters, too.

  • Bruce Majors||

    They made matzoh balls out of my puppy!

  • Dello||

    Christ!

    The still image before playing the vid is horrid!

    Why didn't anyone tell me the zombies were already here?

  • Corduroy||

    My thoughts exactly. How could anything she say be more horrifying than that image seared into my memory.

  • ||

    +1. Someone needs to tell this broad she died three years ago . . .

  • ||

    She looks like she stepped out of the grave to take a piss.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Is that the joker?

  • x,y||

    All of which is why I wish even the straightest-edge news outlets would follow Reason's still-lonely example and show us (at minimum) who their staffers are voting for.

    Word.

  • ||

    Doesn't Slate do this, too? They have in the past at least.

  • ||

    I had no idea Helen Thomas was Native American.

  • ||

    Careful, or she'll whip up a sugar filled potion in her cauldron and fly it to you on her broom.

  • Astrid||

    I had no idea she was human.

  • WTF||

    Aw, play nice with the poor senile ol' lady. You'll be there one day yourself.

  • ||

    I thought Astrid was a dude.

  • Astrid||

    No, girl. But it's the internet so you really only have my word for it anyway.

  • ||

    Sorry, no offense.

  • Astrid||

    None taken.

  • Bruce Majors||

    You could always post a pic.

  • ||

    She's not native American. Her mother and father were immigrants from Tripoli, Lebanon...

  • Suki||

    Maybe you should rephrase that?

  • ||

    She's not - both parents were immigrants from Tripoli, Lebanon

  • Suki||

    Thank you!

  • hmm||

    I don't think you can even try to call this a senior moment. A senior moment is grandpa pissing on the plant in the corner. Not a clear and concise statement about your view on Jews.

  • grandpa||

    No, a "senior moment" is grandpa pissing in his pants.

  • Suki||

    They were zoomed in too close to tell.

  • Bruce Majors||

    She had that covered, though I hear the aide who fastens on her Depends dumped her when she made this statement.

  • Steven Smith||

    Curious as to how Ms. Thomas felt that Clinton was "profaning" the White House in 1994. As I recall, his Administration had fired a number of staffers at the patronage-laden Travel Office the year before, and the White House press corps took that very personally.

  • Matt Welch||

    He was for sure super-undisciplined/careless when it came to his own schedule & what the WHPC was made to cover. Also, a lotta smug-young-punks-come-Washington stuff, which every youngish outsider gets.

  • ||

    STEVE SMITH TRY TO DISGUISE STEVE SMITH WITH EXTRA LETTER AFTER FIRST NAME. NO ONE NOTICE. NOW STEVE SMITH RAPE UNSUSPECTING REASON COMMENTERS.

  • Steve Smith||

    DAMN !!! You saw through my dopple.

  • ||

    STEVE SMITH SPOTTED! STEVE SMITH POUR BUCKET OF BLEACH ON GROUND AND FLEE.

  • Bruce Majors||

    I knew Sue Storm was a "reason" fan but I did not now the Hulk was a subscriber.

  • .||

    Curious as to how Ms. Thomas felt that Clinton was "profaning" the White House in 1994.

    Maybe she was refering to the time Monica was giving him a knobber under the desk while he was on the phone with some foreign government hotshot. Or was that several years later?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Maybe she felt left out.

  • ||

    Had to go all the way back to 2004 for a list of Reason staffer votes? So much for that plan...

  • ||

    Reason also listed their 2008 votes (along with who they voted for in 2000 & 2004): http://reason.com/archives/200.....-your-vote

  • ||

    Matt shouldn't make me look up that shite. That's his job. I have things to do...like read other posts.

  • Matt Welch||

    I linked to the column that talked about the concept, because I wanted to link to the column that talked about the concept.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    Repetitive editor is repetitive because unobservant commenter is unobservant.

    DING fries are done!

  • Mike||

    Can't believe how many voted for Dems and Repubs...What are you people doing at Reason?

  • ||

    Helen Thomas was an extra in They Live?

  • Sandy||

    Nah, she's Maria the Cleaning Woman from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life: http://imdb.to/dtSL0T

  • ed||

    She looks like one of those dried-apple witches.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_923B.....s400/1.jpg

  • ||

  • ||

    And Jim Henson died years ago. Now it all makes sense.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Jos Whedon took her over. She's in his new show about a hellmouth under the OEO building.

  • ||

    "I am so sorry. I did not know we had a rosist here"

  • ||

    So why is it "offensive" to suggest that Israel be disbanded?

    Oh yeah, see Paul, Rand and the topic of the CRA, also listed under Third Rails.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Actually MP, the first occurrance of the word "offensive" on this thread is a post by MP @ 1:09PM. So I'm not sure what exactly you're quoting there.

  • ||

    "I think those remarks were offensive and reprehensible." - White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs

  • Hugh Akston||

    I didn't RTFA, so that must have been where Gibbs said that the Pauls and CRA were hands-off as well.

  • ||

    My point was that there are certain "accepted" opinions that are so super-sensitive that even broaching an opposing viewpoint will get a red A branded on your forehead.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Ahhhh, see when you put it that way I get what you were saying in your original post.

    While not strictly faithful to the spirit of free inquiry, it is the prerogative of polite society to decide which opinions it will tolerate and which it will not.

    Even here in impolite society we have little patience for "they took your jerb!" xenophobes, or authorophiles like Edward.

  • .||

    ...it is the prerogative of polite society to decide which opinions it will tolerate and which it will not.

    Some of us don't care to "tolerate" polite society deciding which opinions we may hold and/or express; we prefer a free society. Polite society can go hump itself.

  • jtuf||

    Dude, she even got the objective facts wrong. Half of the Jewish population of Israel is descended from immigrants who fled Arab states. Hardly any Israelis are descended from North American citizens. She was hardly giving a clear eyed proposal.

  • recoder||

    Helen Thomas was refering to the "settlers" and many of these are indeed from USA as well.

  • Bruce Majors||

    In general calling for the elimination of the right to freedom of travel, especially for specific ethnic or religious groups, and calling for ethnic cleansing to create a Judenfrei fatherland, mark the proponent as a foul creature.

  • Richard ||

    Nothing offensive at all. Let's see, Israel has 7.5 million people, 3/4 of them Jewish, and 2/3 of the Jews were born there. But the state should be "dismembered" and they should "go back (!) to Poland and Germany." I'm glad there are a few things out of bounds in polite society. (For the time being. Give it another five years.)

  • Fluffy||

    It's an absurd position, but I don't think it's a particularly offensive one.

    Anyone who wants can lament the impact of Europeans on the New World and wish - impossibly and absurdly - that the Americas could be "given back" to the Natives. Without being expelled from "polite society". I don't see why this is so different.

  • ||

    Exactly. It's retarded to think that disbanding the Jewish state is even a remotely feasible policy proposal.

    But it's certainly a legitimate point of discussion to debate the efficacy of creating it in the first place. She wasn't explicitly doing that, but that's the subtext of any "kick the Jews out of Palestine" discussion.

  • Richard ||

    Because Americans 1) were not subject to a genocide that is still within living memory and 2) are not currently under existential threat. "Giving America back to the Indians" is college dorm B.S. This isn't.

  • Richard||

    Btw, Fluffy and MP, how do you feel about a White House correspondent who said "niggers get back to Africa"?

  • Contrarian P||

    It's not remotely the same argument, as Africans were largely brought to this nation by force rather that immigrating by choice, nor was the land here taken by fiat from those who inhabited it and given to the Africans. Nor, for that matter, are those of African descent a ruling class who seems to stomp on opposition with disturbing regularity.

    In any event, who gives a damn what a White House correspondent says? It's not like she's making policy or speaking on behalf of the administration. If she says something that produces a political firestorm, like this, just fire/retire her and move along.

  • underzog||

    Fluffy (she wolf of the SS), Mr. Nazi Guy, and Bake (dem Jews in the oven) penquin must be terribly embarrassed that Helen Thomas gave the game away by saying that the Jews should go back to the gas chambers of Auschwitz and the camps such as Dachu.

    In fact, their heroes in that flotilla that was boarded said before the boarding that Jews should go back to Auschwitz -- jess like Helen in her advice to the Jews of Israel.

    Great minds think alike /sarcasm

    "There's no need to fear. Underzog is here!"

  • Suki||

    Is she going to team up with Pat Buchanan for a new show nobody will watch?

  • Fluffy||

    Neither of those have anything to do with whether or not it's offensive, as opposed to merely absurd.

    And actually, college dorm BS is pretty much precisely what this is.

  • Scooby||

    Too bad she's, like, 70 years too old to be engaging in college dorm BS.

  • jtuf||

    If she said that Hispanics should leave America and go back where she came from, would you find it offensive? I would.

  • .||

    I wouldn't, if she were refering to Hispanic illegal immigrants.

  • Edwin||

    I would, even if she were speaking of Hispanic illegal immigrants, and I'm AGAINST illegal immigration (and yes in the against-legalizing-unrestricted-immigration sense)

  • Suki||

    When people tell me to go back where I came from I tell them Richmond didn't have any available employment in my field.

  • ||

    It's an absurd position, but I don't think it's a particularly offensive one.

    Oh, I do. Anyone promoting a policy of making the Middle East Judenrein is pretty fucking offensive, in my book.

  • .||

    Anyone promoting a policy of making the Middle East Judenrein

    I don't know that she is. Perhaps she's just saying that the Europeans who barged into Palestine and took it over should go back to where they came from. And yes, I know there were Jews as well as Christians and Muslims in Palestine before Israel became a state, but the Jews did not possess anywhere near as much political power as they did after importing a bunch of ther fellows. We have much the same situation in this country with Mexicans. When they finally get enough of a population here to take over or exercise great political power(as many of them have avowed to do,) don't expect them to treat non-Hispanics any better than Jewish Israelis treat non-Jewish Israelis or Palestinians.

  • Suki||

    With you, RCD and I can't believe all these people think the British got a raw deal on the whole Palestine thing. Oh, wait, nobody mentioned the prior owners! Are they talking about the Arab Turks getting their territory taken by the British?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Fluffy your analogy is sloppy.

    IF those Europeans had been murdered by the millions in Russia and the Ukraine and you demanded they go back there it would be more exact.

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: MP,

    So why is it "offensive" to suggest that Israel be disbanded?

    Oh yeah, see Paul, Rand and the topic of the CRA, also listed under Third Rails[...]

    How quaint - the "everybody does it" excuse . . .

  • ||

    I never stated that it should be offensive. Just making the point that that there are apparently numerous "self-evident" truths that will get you run out of town if you question them. In two weeks, we've identified "The CRA is the best legislation evah" and "Israel's claim to their statehood is totally, absolutely 100% legit".

  • T||

    Israel's claim to their statehood is as legitimate as anybody else's, and for the same reason: they've got the guns to make it stick.

  • DoDoGuRu||

    Thank you!

    Israel isn't much younger than any other country in the Middle East that got dreamed up by the British after the Ottomans collapsed. The only thing that makes any state legitimate is a border they agreed on and the guns to pointed outward to secure it.

  • Suki||

    Sorry! Didn't reread the whole thing after last night's drinking game. Finally someone mentions the prior management of that country.

  • Richard ||

    Israel is a member of the UN and has diplomatic ties with 157 countries.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F....._of_Israel
    How many other countries "claim to statehood" is up for debate? North Korea doesn't get this much grief, and it really should go the way of East Germany.

  • ||

    It should unify with West Germany?

  • Richard ||

    I'm open to better ideas.

  • ||

    No, no, I'm onboard with your intriguing plan.

    South Korea, of course, should reunify with Malta.

  • ||

    Seriously, I wonder how well a Korean reunification would work? The North is a mess of biblical proportions, making East Germany look easy in comparison.

  • johnl||

    That's why it's going to take an economic powerhouse like Germany to unify with North Korea.

  • ||

    I thought they were reunifying with France?

  • T||

    Does France know about this?

  • ||

    Know about it? They already surrendered.

  • Suki||

    Japan tried to unite all of East Asia a few decades ago.

  • Bruce Majors||

    How come they haven't found a quote where David Brooks and David Frum said the same thing?

    They are the usual go to boys when the left needs cover. Peter Beinart must be on vacation.

  • Jim Treacher||

    It's not offensive at all to suggest that Israel be disbanded. Hey, maybe we can move all the Jews back to Germany in boxcars.

  • SIV||

    Oh yeah link to the "safe" who their staffers are voting for when y'all were still a bunch of tinfoil hat-wearing, colloidal silver-swilling Badnarik or Elmer Fudd voters ( Kerry?were you on drugs?).And not the Obama-LoveFest that was Reason's 2008 predominate voting preferences.

  • SIV||

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    That link is so whatwas.

  • hmm||

    The link should be renamed the Scarlet O.

  • SIV||

    Hey, pixels are free. I left some of 'em out like Bagge(just draw) and Sirius (why do you think they call it "dope"?)

    Tim Cavanaugh

    1. Who are you voting for in November? Barack Obama. All my life I've been waiting for a black president

    Steve Chapman

    1. Who are you voting for in November? Barack Obama, for two main reasons: The Republican Party, which has jettisoned its best inclinations and indulged its worst for the last eight years, richly deserves exile from the White House, and 2) because he shows an intelligence and temperament that suggest he will govern more pragmatically than ideologically—the best that can be hoped for from a Democratic president.

    Steven Pinker

    1. Who are you voting for in November? Barack Obama, because he most exemplifies Reason and Free Minds (sorry, the country is in no mood for Freer Markets). The contrast between his discernment and eclecticism and the Republican ticket’s impulsiveness and idiot populism is vastly more important than any differences in their adherence to libertarian first principles.

    David Weigel

    1. Who are you voting for in November? I’ve got the luxury of a guilt-free, zero-impact vote in the District of Columbia, which I would cast for Bob Barr if he was on the ballot. Since he’s not, I’m voting for Barack Obama, the only remaining candidate whom I trust not to run the country (further) into the ground with stupid and erratic decisions, and who (miraculously for a Democrat) has run a less brain-dead, faux-populist campaign than the Republican.

    Ronald Bailey

    1. Who are you voting for in November? Obama. The Republicans must be punished and punished hard.

  • ||

    Barack Obama, the only remaining candidate whom I trust not to run the country (further) into the ground with stupid and erratic decisions,

    The irony is strong with this one.

  • Suki||

    Dave Weigel really said that? Doesn't make me feel any less foolish for voting the same way.

  • Ragin Cajun||

    I’m voting for Barack Obama, the only remaining candidate whom I trust not to run the country (further) into the ground

    Thanks for the laugh.

  • ||

    Reasons 1-5 why I mistrust the instincts and intellect of the Libertarian brain trust. How anyone could have been taken in by that empty suit baffles me.

  • Bruce Majors||

    It really is to bad that all those white boy editors and writers are straight.

    If they just wanted to get fucked by a (half-) black man you can do that without selling your children into slavery to China.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "Straight reporters have been taught for six decades to submerge or even smother their political and philosophical views in the workplace."

    First, there's never been any such thing as "straight reporting".

    Second I think what most of them have been taught in recent decades is that they are supposed be advocates for change (liberal change of course).

    Bias exists not only in what reporters say but in stories they choose to reprot and not report.

    For example, on the BP oil spill issue, how many reporters have (or will) point out that the riskier and more expensive deepwater offshore drilling has been made more necessary because the shallower coastal waters and onshore locations in places like Alaska that would be easer and less expensive to drill have all been put off limits by politicians catering to the environmental wackos.

  • Tony||

    Gilbert,

    The puss that fills the holes in Rush Limbaugh's brain don't count as facts to report on.

  • ||

    Tony, I have MRIs that show you are the puss that fills the holes in Rush's brain.

  • Suki||

    MNG is still using that Tony handle? HA!

  • guy in the back row||

    Great pictures! I thought the last one would be her and Harry Truman, though.

    I'd love to know her opinion on J' Edgar Hoover's effect on US politics from 1935 to 1970.

  • Suki||

    There is no video of her first interviews with world leaders. Only cave drawings.

  • ¢||

    I'm not as in the mist with reporters as you are, but I think you're being gratuitously unkind to Alex Jones.

    Inviting the Israelis to visit one of the many fine Jewish-themed destinations in Poland and Germany is the far horizon of his assholery, but among the not-explicitly-conservative journalists I've known, it's the restrained, centrist, three-drinks-or-less position.

    In the last few years, I've increasingly avoided socializing with the ones I do know, because I don't want to talk about The Jews, and they really, really do. A lot.

  • ||

    Ah yes, I had the pleasure of visiting one of what are basically Jewish Disneylands in Poland.

  • Billy!||

    Huh. I had no idea this was a controversial enough belief to get fired over. (It's not one I share.) It seems long ago she became an opinionated gadfly rather than a real reporter, I'm surprised this is enough to do her in.

  • Ragin Cajun||

    It's not the belief that's controversial, in certain circles, just that she actually said it.

  • Richard ||

    Mark Steyn's most recent column:

    There are no good options for Israel. These days, Europeans pay even less lip service to the “two-state solution” than Hamas does. The default position is that the creation of the Zionist Entity was an error and an historical injustice, and thus it has to be corrected one way or the other. If — when — the mullahs drop the big one on Tel Aviv, the BBC wallahs will momentarily drop the sneers for a more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger shtick about how, tragic as it is, it brings to a close an unfortunate chapter in Middle Eastern history.
  • ||

    What they will be reporting on is the entire middle east turned to glass. And if suspicions are confirmed, if Israel truly thinks it's good night time, a healthy chunk of Western Europe.

  • ||

    The MSM is owned by corporations. It doesn't matter how reporters vote. What matters is they'll lose their jobs if they don't toe the corporate line in their reporting.

  • ||

    toe the corporate line

    Cannot anyone get that phrase right?

  • ||

    Huh? This is the first time in days I've seen it written correctly (instead of "tow" the corporate line).

  • hmm||

    It's tow the corporate lion.

  • robc||

    The corporate lion belongs to MGM, not MSM.

  • Suki||

    +1

  • Old Mexican||

    What's interesting is her belief that all the Israelis that currently live in Israel are exactly the same people that left Poland and Germany after WWII . . . she must believe all of them are akin to Methuselah.

  • Fluffy||

    Lots of people acted the same way about white South Africans, though - and they had been there for four centuries.

    If some leftist had, in the 80's, advocated having white South Africans go back to Europe, nobody would have batted an eyelash.

  • Richard ||

    That's because leftists are big on moving people around like they were concrete or something. (See U.S.S.R., P.R.C...)
    I, personally, am against sending any ethnic group "back" to where their ancestors came from four centuries ago. Ok?

  • Fluffy||

    Me too.

    What's done is done. We don't get any do-over's, whether of 1933 or 1948 or any other time.

  • Ragin Cajun||

    Yeah, fuck that, I ain't going back to Nova Scotia Acadia.

    (Now, let's see if those two guys from Lunenburg show up.)

  • Suki||

    Same with Korea (if that is where my birth parents are from, just a guess).

  • cynical||

    Of course, they wouldn't be demanding that white South Africans go somewhere where people had tried to commit genocide against them and nearly succeeded, so there's that.

  • Fluffy||

    Remember, I think that both recommendations are absurd.

    The question is whether or not one is more offensive than the other.

    They're either both offensive or neither is.

    You seem to be saying, "Well, it's more offensive because Europeans are standing by ready to exterminate Jews again, and can't wait for another chance!" and that doesn't exactly seem like an accurate description of Europe in 2010, sorry.

  • jtuf||

    The climate for Jews is not as safe in Europe as it used to be. Physical attacks on Jews and their property in Europe have increased a few fold in the past decade.

  • cynical||

    No, murdering the Jews is one of the jobs that Europeans won't do. Fortunately, they have immigrant labor for that.

  • Suki||

    Wasn't there a recent wave of Synagogues being burned and vandalized?

  • robc||

    If the genocide had succeeded, there wouldnt be anybody to go back.

  • robc||

    Argh...reading hard today, missed the "nearly".

  • Xmas||

    Actually, South Africa has a large contingent of Orthodox Jews that moved here from Europe in the late 1940s.

    But I still can't find a good bagel and schmear down here.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Thanks for reminding some people of one of the essential aspects of her hateful rant.

  • ||

    Some people like to go out at the TOP of their game.

    Others, like Ms Thomas go out as as big A__hole !

  • matt||

    Why is Ms. Thomas held to one standard and Marty Peretz held to another?

  • Jim Treacher||

    Marty Peretz still gets to sit in the White House briefing room?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Marty Peretz called for sending people back to a country where their parents were murdered? Against their will?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Welch was a Kerry supporter? How embarrassing.

  • Matt Welch||

    No, a Kerry *voter*. And yes, that was almost as embarrassing as voting for Dukakis. Though in both cases I was just militantly anti-Bush.

  • Colin||

    I can one-up you, as I actually voted for Mondale.

    My excuse was that my entire college campus was for Reagan.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    So you were the one.

    It's a good thing it doesn't take two hands to work the ballot. Otherwise, they would have to hand out clothes pins for all of us to hold our noses closed when we vote for the least intolerable option.

  • alan||

    I voted Dukakis, but being a teen at the time, I didn't know better. The 'I'm just a technocrat with no preconceived notions just looking to fix things' message was such a winner that I could not fathom why all Americans did not rush to the ballot box and give him their support.

    Being a Democrat at the time, I assumed the reason was racism. In fact, the thirty minute campaign commercial the DNC ran in prime time the week before the election told me that was the reason why they had floundered at the National level of electoral politics for so long. All the good they did for the people to fight racism made intolerant Americans overlook their very own economic interest by voting for those corporate rich people lovin' Republicans.

    Went to the poll, voted Dukakis and patted myself on the back for being such a good person. Feel like building a time machine and going back to kick that guy in the nuts just as he steps out of the voting booth.

  • SIV||

    What about the issues? They had newspapers and CNN back then.

    Dukakis? Any candidate who can be so totally pwned by Bernard Shaw(LoL) isn't fit for the office of dogcatcher.He looked really stupid and ineffectual in that tank. His wife LIED about being a nail-polish remover-swilling sterno bum to divert attention from the fact she was a life-long tweaking speedfreak. He was a Masshole from fake-America Massachusetts.

  • highnumber||

    Those were the issues?

  • SIV||

    No but who remembers the fucking issues in any race? Quemoy and Matsu? I don't even know if I spelled the names of those rocks in the South China sea correctly but back in 1960 those were the issues. "The issues" are usually totally irrelevant in a political contest.

  • Ted S.||

    The issue was Michael Dukakis driving a tank....

  • Suki||

    I always thought that was a photoshopped picture.

  • alan||

    Maybe I'm reading your response wrong, but I hope the sarcasm wasn't lost there. It was practically dripping like venom at a Pentecostal revival. No way in Hell I'm going to lose my buzz and get pissy about something as ancient and fucked up as the Dukakis campaign. We should all be laughing over that head joined double abortion of H. 'I'm not a pussy' Bush and Dukakis.

    'Wait. Set up the scene here, Bernie. Do I get to watch or not?'

  • SIV||

    Dukakis deserved to come in no better than fourth that election. The pwnage by Bernie Shaw was one of the greatest moments in the history of journalism.
    "You oppose the death penalty suppose your wife Kitty was raped and murdered"
    (correct answer: I'd kill the motherfucker myself Bernie- in a very slow and painful manner-he'd wish he'd never been born, but a civilized society...blah, blah blah)

    Dukakis' answer:I don't remember but he left out the "I'd kill the motherfucker myself part".

  • Jim Treacher||

    You were militantly anti-Bush? Huh. How's that working out?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Well, you are still pretty, in your own way. And your daughter is adorable. So if you don't talk about your sordid past, we could all overlook it.

  • ||

    A few random thoughts in response:

    -- That old bat's face, first thing in the morning, before coffee (I'm on the West coast, so it's still early here) was pretty hard to take.

    -- Let's say Helen Thomas gets her wish. All the Jews are sent packing from "Palestine" for points north and west. Five years later, Thomas visits "Palestine," that place that her opinions helped "liberate." Within hours, she is arrested for violating seven or eight different Sharia laws; i.e. not wearing hijab or whatever the fuck it's called, not yielding to men on the sidewalk by stepping into the street, and not being accompanied by a male relative whenever she's out in public. She tries to play the "press" card, but everyone knows she's retired. She languishes in prison for a month before dying.

    -- Yes, Jews were living in Palestine before it became Israel. And Israel as a nation was installed by Western superpowers. And I'm not leaving America just because my grandparents weren't born here; I don't expect conquerors to leave a country they don't want to leave. Nations and cultures rise and fall. People move around. Other people get stomped. Sometimes it isn't faaaaaaiiiirrr. Shit happens, on planet Earth. Don't like it? Drink some funny-tasting Kool-Aid, crawl under your purple shroud and check out.

  • Fluffy||

    Sometimes it isn't faaaaaaiiiirrr.

    The problem with this "realism" is that if it doesn't matter whether or not the current situation in Israel/Palestine is just, it also doesn't matter if Hamas blows up some Israeli nursery school. Because who cares whether or not it's faaaaaaiiiirrr, after all? Right?

  • ||

    And can you name a policy that, to date, has successfully prevented Hamas fucktards from blowing up anything, including nursery schools?

  • T||

    Shooting Hamas fucktards works pretty well, but there does seem to be an inexhaustible supply.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Blockading their rocket imports too.

  • ||

    And can you name a policy that, to date, has successfully prevented Hamas fucktards from blowing up anything, including nursery schools?

    (1) The wall.

    (2) The last invastion of Gaza. Rocket attacks are down dramatically since then.

    Its almost like

    You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish.

    and the fucktards got good and punished the last time the Israelis got seriously pissed off.

  • ||

    Hmmm, can we start the wall from Brownsville to El Paso anytime soon?

  • Suki||

    Don't forget the sea blockade and Egypt helping with southside.

  • Mo||

    Let's say Helen Thomas gets her wish. All the Jews are sent packing from "Palestine" for points north and west. Five years later, Thomas visits "Palestine," that place that her opinions helped "liberate." Within hours, she is arrested for violating seven or eight different Sharia laws; i.e. not wearing hijab or whatever the fuck it's called, not yielding to men on the sidewalk by stepping into the street, and not being accompanied by a male relative whenever she's out in public. She tries to play the "press" card, but everyone knows she's retired. She languishes in prison for a month before dying.

    Hate to burst your fact free bubble, but there are plenty of Muslim countries in the area without a single one of those rules.

  • ||

    It wasn't supposed to be fact, dipshit. It was a fictitious prediction based on Thomas' bleeding-heart core implication that the poor Palestinians are really peace-loving people who'd go back to linking arms and singing kum-ba-ya for eternity, if someone would only show those nasty Jew carpetbaggers the door.

    Why don't you name all the Muslim countries in that area where women are allowed equal, integrated, and full access to education, where women who are not covered head-to-toe in clothing are not leered at as whores, where women can move freely, drive, and enter public spaces (except for men's restrooms, of course) at will and without male accompaniment, where women can travel without the permission of a male family member, where couples can hold hands or kiss in public without arrest or censure, and where no young girl has been stoned to death for some perceived sexual immorality in 20 years or longer. This oughtta be a short list, I'm thinking.

  • Bruce Majors||

    But can you find any significant Moslem countries that don't do at least one heinous, often religiously motivated, major violation of liberty, whether it be: 1) imprisoning bloggers who criticize the government, 2) censoring the internet, 3) lynching gays, 4) stripping people of citizenship for marrying Israelis, 5) beating rape victims for being raped, 6) refusing to allow women to drive, 7) refusing to allow women to go out in public without a shroud on, 8) counting a woman's testimony in court as less than a man's.

  • ||

    "Five years later, Thomas visits "Palestine," that place that her opinions helped "liberate." Within hours, she is arrested for violating seven or eight different Sharia laws; i.e. not wearing hijab or whatever the fuck it's called, not yielding to men on the sidewalk by stepping into the street, and not being accompanied by a male relative whenever she's out in public."

    That's the pragmatic reason to support Israel. It doesn't change the fact that the foundation of Israel was an illegitimate land grab. It's almost like an eminent domain argument on an international scale. Rhodesia today would be a far nicer, safer and richer country today than modern Zimbabwe is, but I never hear the American media complaining about how the poor white settlers got mistreated.

  • jtuf||

    Quite the contrary. Jews bought land from Arabs when they moved to Israel. Individuals have property rights. Trying to maintain group property rights is a throw back to the days when Blacks and Jews were not allowed to move into certain American towns.

  • .||

    Quite the contrary. Jews bought land from Arabs when they moved to Israel. Individuals have property rights.

    Were the Arabs allowed by Israeli law to sell their land to anyone but Jews?

  • ade||

    The bulk of the land was bought during the Ottoman period.

  • Suki||

    So the Arabs are Indian givers? Is that a genetic trait or social?

  • ||

    I said "Israel as a nation was installed by Western superpowers." I know it was a land grab. And in that alternate universe where I get to decide American foreign policy, and magical winged monkeys fly out my ass, all U.S. funding of Israel would be cut, both for that reason, and because funding Israel--just because the nuckinfutters claim some sort of divine right to the territory--violates our separation of church and state. Let American Jews privately fund Israel if that's their thang.

  • jtuf||

    While we're at it, let's stop giving 1 billion to the PA, 2 billion to Egypt, 1 billion to Russia, 1 billion to Sudan, and 1 billion to Pakistan each year. I would also like to get our navy out of the Gulf of Arabia so the Gulf countries can protect their own water ways.

  • robc||

    Israel as a nation was installed by Western superpowers Jehovah and/or Joshua.

    FTFY

  • robc||

    Still a land grab, but western superpowers had nothing to do with it.

  • Suki||

    Maybe if the Egyptians used a different system of compensating their laborers none of this would be a problem.

  • ||

    Huh?

  • .||

    @ zeroentitlement:

    Empress of Snark? Jenny, baby - is that you? ;-)

  • Bruce Majors||

    Why do you assume that only Jews would support voluntary funding of Israel?

  • DoDoGuRu||

    What makes a land grab illegitimate?

    The Ottoman Empire lost a war and mismanaged their holdings: this was the consequence. It's no more illegitimate than the existence of Jordan, Syria or Egypt.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    "-- Yes, Jews were living in Palestine before it became Israel. And Israel as a nation was installed by Western superpowers. And I'm not leaving America just because my grandparents weren't born here; I don't expect conquerors to leave a country they don't want to leave. Nations and cultures rise and fall. People move around. Other people get stomped. Sometimes it isn't faaaaaaiiiirrr. Shit happens, on planet Earth. Don't like it? Drink some funny-tasting Kool-Aid, crawl under your purple shroud and check out."

    I agree with you Zero. Forcing people to move for the sins of their fathers (grandfathers? great-grandfathers?) is not justified. However, a little anecdote is in order to bust up the broad stroke preconceptions held by some. Grandpa Drax was a Christian Palestinian killed by Israeli "troops" in 1949 for literally defending his house on his lawn with an old bolt action rifle. Literally. Uncle Drax has recently been removed by Israeli agents from his house which he has owned for 30 years, and he is supposedly an Israeli “citizen”. Papa Drax left that shit-hole and joined many peace movements in the U.S. seeking to reconcile the factions in the region forever at odds, only to be branded as a "potential threat" and placed on do not fly lists by the U.S. government. Now all of these men are/were Christian, and would abhor the extreme cartoon dogma(hyperbole, yes a lot of dumbasses in the region let alone, the world adhere to radical Islam, and they should be laughed at in the very least) you think characterizes all Palestinians. Now, would you think that members of this particular family would have reasons to be particularly sore at the Israeli state, and it's so-called just, peace-loving, western foundations?

    And you are right, it's not fair. But when people are still living who have suffered some sort of injustice, it's kind of hard for animosities to be buried. Heck, some assholes out there think you owe reparations for what some slave owner did 160 years ago, but all those directly involved are dead. Some cranky bastards who suffered through the so-called war of independence are still kicking around. And they are still cranky.

    When it comes to me, I don't live there and never wish to, and I would prefer the U.S. government to stop giving a shit about the rest of the world's problems so I could become a little more ambivalent about some piece of shit desert some religious guys fucked around in thousands of years ago.

  • Adonisus||

    I can vouche for this. The pastor and youth minister of my church have both made several trips to the Holy Land and have met Palestinian Christians who have been wronged by Israel.

    I'm a big supporter of Israel's right to exist as a nation. It is an oasis in the middle of barbarism. I'm also a big supporter of the Israeli people as a whole.

    But the Israeli government, like our government, is far too big for its own good.

  • ||

    Would rather live in Gaza or at Helen Thomas' house?

  • Ragin Cajun||

    I thought Gaza was Helen Thomas' house.

  • T||

    Depends. Can I ship Helen Thomas to Gaza if I choose her house? 'Cause if she comes with the house, I'm thinking Gaza looks like a better deal.

  • Suki||

    Glad you were here to ask the tough question SF.

  • ||

    Straight reporters have been taught for six decades to submerge or even smother their political and philosophical views in the workplace.

    In what parallel universe does this actually happen in practice?

  • ||

    Why does the "spam filter" on this site filter out references to Matt Welch's advocacy for Bush's wars?

  • Matt Welch||

    What?

  • ||

    It might have been a one-off thing, but the first time I tried to link to Matt Welch's personal blog from 2001, along with some commentary about how Helen Thomas' comments didn't harm anyone, while Matt Welch advocated wars that ended up killing a lot of people, it didn't go through.

    Also, my two attempts at sock-puppeting Marty Peretz (to point out what I saw as hypocrisy in the Helen Thomas outrage) were slapped down.

    It may have been coincidental.

  • Matt Welch||

    I advocated the war in Afghanistan, and no other specific war under (either) Bush. Can't help you with the spam filter, but the Warblog's 2001 archive is all ripe & open for the cherry-picking.

  • Warty||

    CONSPRIACYT

  • victualler of Sn chapeaus||

    I have just what you need.

  • Almanian||

    the once-straight war correspondent Chris Hedges

    Oh, so now he's gay because he isn't a war correspondent?

    We haven't the gummint hasn't ended "don't ask don't tell just yet."

  • Suki||

    I was wondering that too. Why does his sexuality have to be an issue?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Is he single?

  • ||

    They should burn that White House Press Room front row chair she's been sitting in for the past 50 years..... must stink for DUMB/OLD's disease.

  • ||

    what the hell?!

  • charles||

    I'm probably sensitive about this as a soon-to-be PhD in the humanities, but, good God, retire you old fools. Retire! Other people need your jobs more and can do a better job. Have the decency to off and die now.

  • The Social Critic||

    I wouldn't grant you a Ph.D. You sound like you're in junior high.

    Tell me who your academic advisor is.

    I didn't think so…

    Point taken?

  • Warty||

    So do you suppose that JFK ever did her? It seems quite likely, since she (presumably) had a vagina and was in the same room as the old Mick.

  • Astrid||

    There is not enough bleach in the world to take away that image, Warty.

  • ||

    He's not talking about them getting it on now. I mean, I guess she could masturbate with his femur or something.

  • Warty||

    She could probably rub some pieces of his skull against the oozing remains of her clit, too.

  • ||

    Watch out, Helen. Some of those pieces are sharp.

  • Warty||

    You know as well as anyone that pain is the only thing she's still capable of feeling, SugarFree.

  • ||

    Bullshit. She can still feel her hatred for those dastardly Jews. And her love for the honest and peaceful people of Gaza.

  • Warty||

    I just feel sorry for her poor gerbil Isaac.

  • Astrid||

    I'm going to go drink a bottle of scotch and blow my brains out now, thanks guys.

  • Warty||

    Texas is an outrage when your husband is dead
    Texas is an outrage when they pick up his head
    Texas is the reason that the president's dead
    You gotta suck, suck, Jackie suck

  • ||

    This was the most surreal thread within a thread today.

  • Ragin Cajun||

    Day's not over, yet.

  • ||

    MASTERBATE ME!

  • SIV||

    My favorite movie not available on DVD!
    The Devils that is not some Helen Thomas/Kennedy Granny/Necro picture.

  • ||

    It's kind of pricey, but at least you can still get Warty's favorite movie on DVD.

  • Warty||

    I once saw the band Necromantix. They were not as cool as their name.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Finally a use for the Kennedys.

  • ||

    This reminds me of Woddy Hayes. Everyone knew Hayes was crazy. And they gave him a free pass because he won. Then when he finally went and did something so bad, hiting an opposing player on the sideline, that people could no longer ignor it, the people at Ohio State were all of the sudden "shocked" that he was abusive.

    Helen Thomas is much the same way. She has been a nasty awful person for decades. But, she was liberal. So they over looked it. Now she has gone and done something so over the top that they can no longer cover for her. She has always been this bad. And they spent 40 years giving her awards and telling her how great she is.

  • Warty||

    The difference is that punching an opposing player is pretty hilarious. Telling Jews to go back to Germany is only slightly hilarious.

  • ||

    True. And the Clemson kid showed up the OSU bench and kind of had it coming.

  • Warty||

    For those who don't know what we're talking about. It was an awfully shitty punch to get fired over. At least it was in the throat, though.

  • Hockey Guy||

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p-Ee1hdKcc

    Boom, outta here Helen!!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Press Corps Reporter: You didn't know your comments were anti-semitic?

    Helen Thomas: Are you asking me or are you telling me?

    Reporter: No, I'm asking you.

    Thomas: Are you an expert?

    Reporter: No, it was on the replay.

    Thomas: So you're an expert?

    Reporter: No, it was on the replay.

    Thomas: You saw it, you're saying you saw it, you're an expert.

    Reporter: Yes.

    Thomas: You're not an expert.

    Reporter: I saw it. I'm asking if you knew your comments were anti-semitic.

    Thomas: You're telling me I'm an anti-semite?

    Reporter: It was on the replay.

    Thomas: So you're an expert. You know it was up.

  • ||

    Fist, I have wanted to use that Andy Sutton interview here forever, but I didn't know if anyone would get it.

    But hey, I'm no expert.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    The front fell off.

    Well of course thats not normal, the front fell off.

    Too lazy to find the link

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    First step to using Sutton's priceless "expert" interview in a comment: not caring if anyone else gets it.

    Fortune favors the bold, my friend.

  • Colin||

    On reading that wine anecdote, I wonder if she were drunk during this interview.

    I mean, why would she say this at a Jewish event -- and to a rabbi (who was dressed as such) with a camera?

    Drunk or senile. Only two possibilities.

    It's sad that this is what she'll be remembered for. Kinda reminds me of Michael Richards, who in spite of all his many years of brilliant comedy work, will be remembered for that one terrible minute on stage.

  • ed||

    Nah. Seinfeld is in reruns forever. The "nigger" clip last ran...what...three years ago? On a cable "entertainment" show?

  • ||

    On reading that wine anecdote, I wonder if she were drunk during this interview.

    In vino veritas.

  • Mel Gibson||

    In vino veritas.

    You don't need to tell me, sugar tits.

  • Oswald Acted Alone||

    How about drunk and senile.

  • .||

    ...Michael Richards, who in spite of all his many years of brilliant comedy work, will be remembered for that one terrible minute on stage.

    Remembered by whom? I'll always remember him as that gold-chain-wearing, Mr. Cool character he used to do on Fridays.

  • PR||

    I don't know about that. Helen Thomas still seems to be who I thought she was.

  • ||

    Chris Hedges was always loony. It's just that when he was an anti-war correspondent, the anti-war libertarians agreed with his lunacy.

  • ||

    Well, of course Matt Welch couldn't WAIT to catch a liberal in a politically incorrect moment. Not like "The Reason Foundation" - the most oxymoronically named institution in history - has any opinions that are racist, sexist, or just plain loony. But having an 89 year old lady spew for once kinda takes the heat off, eh Matty? Howling over a reporter's corpse is about what I'd expect from a non-reporter like Welch, a guy lucky enough to find a tailor-made home in (uh-hem) "Reason" where they truly believe if they say it, it must be so. You guys give Fox Non-News a run for their money in the fake data, pull-an-excerpt-to-prove-a-debate arena. Those of us who are perform statistical and analytical research reporting for a living think you guys are just so darn funny! Except for Welch, the most arrogant whatver I've had the misfortune to meet.

  • Warty||

    We already played libertarian bingo today; can someone make up a Reason bingo board?

  • ||

    The drinking game covers it. And I think I have to take a couple of drinks based on the above post (it's close enough to "for a magazine called Reason..." to take a drink, clearly)

  • Suki||

    I warned everybody about the drinking game last night. I need more coffee.

  • ||

    Those of us who are perform statistical and analytical research reporting for a living think you guys are just so darn funny!

    That's hilarious. This has to be a joke, right?

  • Ragin Cajun||

    I hope so. I'm about to get alcohol poisoning.

  • Warty||

    Fox Non-News

    This is my favorite part.

  • Bruce Majors||

    It's a little too literate to be Tony, so maybe it is a spoof of him.

  • jtuf||

    I was spent 3 years working in the Biometrics lab and the Center for Remote Sensing and Spacial Analysis while I was working my way through grad school. My masters of science project was an application of Bayesian clustering techniques on the data from the World Values survey. I also helped my mentor with some Bayesian kriging. So as one stat guy to another, I would like to tell you that you are wrong, Maralago. By the way, what type of stat work do you do?

  • Warty||

    Bayes was a fucking prick. What do you say about that, math dude?

  • jtuf||

    I have no data to confirm or reject your theory. I never met the guy.

  • Suki||

    I thought he was sweet and generous.

  • alan||

    Those of us who are perform statistical and analytical research reporting for a living think you guys are just so darn funny!

    And, yet, Matt and Reason staffers are the smug ones, got it.

    Bragging about being a quant in the lowest paying and least professional sector that a quant can find employment makes me take you less seriously than if you had left that part out in your complaint altogether instead of using it as a pathetic means to boost an already poor excuse for an argument.

  • ||

    Those of us who are perform

    I think this is more insulting to the English language than to Reason readers.

  • ||

    They don't call it inchoate rage for nothing, dude.

  • Matt Welch||

    You must have not met many whatvers.

  • ||

    My favorite part was when she called you "Matty."

  • Warty||

    I assume this guy met you in your incredible-hair phase, Matt, and has been aflame with enraged jealousy ever since. Is that why you got rid of it?

  • Suki||

    In your circles, theretofores are more common, yes?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Whatvers should go home, back to Whatverria.

  • ||

    Howling over a reporter's corpse is about what I'd expect from a non-reporter like Welch

    huh?

    He was pretty tame in his criticism of Helen. or even the left. from what i read he mostly complained about journalists who hide their political beliefs. And advocated for a synthesis of fact reporting and commentary.

  • Warty||

    Maybe if you performed statistical and analytical research reporting for a living, you'd understand.

  • .||

    Those of us who are perform statistical and analytical research reporting...

    Oh yeah - lies, damned lies, and then statistics. Lol

  • ||

    Maralago:

    Might it be that the people here spouting obscene, off-topic one-liners are either senile, drunk or both?

    Or maybe just under the age of 14? (I wouldn't want to insult a 16-year-old.)

  • alan||

    As a fellow ex-UPIer and someone who greatly enjoyed a wine-drenched evening in Thomas' company 16 years ago

    Surprised nobody took a shot at that. Was that just too low hanging of fruit for anyone to exploit?

  • Ragin Cajun||

    Please don't say "low-hanging fruit" about Ms. Thomas.

  • alan||

    lol! eight plus one and eighty, blind crippled and crazy. Helen has got it all.

  • ||

    And so what do we say of you, Alan? We're supposed to let your "mouth" off the hook but not Thomas's?

    Gotta love those double standards…

  • alan||

    Oh, touche, I guess.

  • alan||

    oh, and, for future reference, I don't make conversation with commie trolls, so bugger off.

  • ||

    Why not? T already used the word "depends" in a discussion of her.

  • ||

    I wanted to be a gynaecologist when I was in high school (yes, it was very original ... and yes I went to an all boys school), until a trip to a medical publisher. They gave us random copies of their journals. I opened mine to and found an illustrated review on geriatric gynaecological disorders. There were things, hanging from it ...

  • The Social Critic||

    Thank god for field trips. That means one less pervert in the profession just looking to ogle young women from behind the "respect" of a doctor.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Google "vaginal prolapse" if you are male and want to experience sympathetic pain about something that cannot even happen to you.

  • jtuf||

    I think the left has some sort of fettish about relocating Jews. It must be the latest meme going around. When I was at a pro-Israel rally this Spring, some man walking by yelled at me. He told me to go move to Israel. Later that day, I was at the library. Another man there told me to go move to Europe.

  • Fluffy||

    At least they didn't bulldoze your house.

  • Rachel Corrie||

    Wish I could say the same.

  • Richard ||

    Ah, "peace" activists.

  • Suki||

    Your pancake breakfasts are making a comeback.

  • jtuf||

    Not the whole house. But the police did bust down my bedroom door a few years ago.

  • Suki||

    Isn't it nice to be popular?

  • ||

    I hear Canada is nice. And all things considering they are probably the only country in the world with a stable currency.

  • ||

    Australia?

  • Bruce Majors||

    Maybe we could profit off this by marketing as special version of "Risk" for them called "Juden-frei."

  • ||

    I'm sure the overwhelming majority of reporters are very human. I don't see anything wrong with a few beers & some honest talk after they get off the press bus. However, Helen Thomas was in public & talk'g to a rabbi no less. Can you imagine how sick her rant made him. She "retired" too late. But maybe she can run a network in Iran where she'll be appreciated.

  • Gary Baumgarten||

    We'll be discussing Helen Thomas' retirement on News Talk Online on the Paltalk News Network at 5 PM New York time today.

    Just go to http://www.joinchatnow.com to particpate. There is no charge.

  • Tony||

    I don't get the big deal... It's not the same Germany and Poland.

    How about a little outrage over the treatment of Palestinians? Anyone?

  • jtuf||

    Well, the way Hamas treats the Gazans is outrageous. I was also shocked when Lebanon attacked Palistinian camps in Lebanon a few years ago. Then there's the fact that Arab countries deny citizenship to Palistinians born in those countries and ban them from many professions. Unfortunately, it's rare for anyone to complain about these injustices.

  • Suki||

    +1

  • ||

    I don't get the big deal... It's not the same Germany and Poland.

    What Helen apparently doesn't know is that many Jews tried to return to their homes in Germany and Poland after the Holocaust. Unfortunately, their homes no longer belonged to them.

  • Tony||

    Luckily there was an even more hated ethno-religious group to displace and terrorize in Palestine.

    Is there a Scientologist enclave somewhere we could transplant the Gazans to?

  • jtuf||

    How about we just reunify Gaza with Egypt and give the Gazans Egyptian citizenship.

  • Suki||

    Thought that was proposed already? Same with West Bank and Jordan too?

  • Suki||

    MNG, quit talking about Gaza and move there already.

  • ||

    Well, of course I c-I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it’s just like in markets- that if I weren’t there- of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.

  • Duckworth Lewis||

    If she had just said something dumb and backwards about Palestinians or Arabs I'm sure she would have been fine and invited to Joey Biden's water soaked Birthday Party.

  • Tim||

    Anyone remember her famous "Where's the Veef" Wendy's commercial from 1984? It practically propelled Walter Mondale to the top of the Democrat ticket.

  • ||

    While criticism of what Helen Thomas says is legit, criticism of her being old is unfair and stupid.
    Unfair because aging is not a choice.
    Stupid because you also will age.
    Karma dictates that the young people who abuse those who are old will age very very badly.

  • Joel||

    "aging is not a choice"

    Quitting before you become an embarrassment to yourself and the industry is.

  • chaka||

    karma also dictates that you're a douche.

  • The Social Critic||

    Mr. Harrison, you're what they call a "gentleman". You need not cite religious beliefs beyond the basic requirement for human decency and respect.

    Don't expect the morally and socially regressive bully-kids to understand.

  • ||

    David Harrison's thoughtful (and compassionate) comment on the ageist attacks on Thomas is so right on the money: young people who mock older people are already showing their emotional colorblindness, and headed for all the misery and disappointment that brings in life -- especially "young" lives.

  • Entitled Slacker||

    Helen Thomas is the reason the burqa was invented.

  • Suki||

    +1

  • Bruce Majors||

    +1

  • goodtravelshelen||

    i'll miss her. i'm not even a liberal, but that's an impressive time to be doing the same thing. i think a lot of people have the same sentiments as her, but because of political correctness you only hear it within your circle of friends. nobody wants to be called an anti-semitic or racist.

  • Richard||

    They keep calling her a "columnist," but I've never seen her column. So I looked it up. I can't believe she got paid for a href="http://www.thebostonchannel.com/helenthomas/index.html">this drivel.

  • Isaac Bartram||

    From Richard's link:

    Social Security is not a charity. It is a trust fund created by contributions paid by workers and their employers, designed to assure a future livelihood, first for the elderly, then orphans, then the disabled. It’s a retirement savings plan -- not a handout.

    Contrary to what our longtime house liberal stated, there really are people who believe that there is an actual Social Security Trust Fund.

  • alan||

    Those would be the same house liberals who smirked at the seniors yelling at their congressmen to keep the government's hands off SS while they were quite copecetic with Al Gore's idea of a 'lock box' the very type of rhetoric that fueled the senior's belief that their was an untouchable trust fund.

  • ||

    FAIL! A church is funded by "contributions". So is a "retirement savings plan". A savings plan would be invested and managed to increase over time. Social Security is a tax. Money for Social Security is confiscated for a government run Ponzi scheme. If you think you're "contributing", try stopping your "contributions". And if you think you can start your own Ponzi scheme, talk to Bernie Madoff.

  • MJ||

    Thomas is a New Deal Democrat. She bought FDR's propaganda hook, line, and sinker.

  • ||

    Richard's admission is a rare one, but probably typical: Those who know the least about an issue or a person speak the loudest.

    They also laugh at their own jokes when no one else is.

    If Thomas should have known when to keep her mouth shut — well, a whole lot of other people here could take the same advice.

  • alan||

    Don't know where you are goodtravels, but here Israel is pretty damn popular, and I don't hear anything like what you describe.

    I'm pretty critical of the relationship of our two countries as I don't like seeing our Congress jumping at anyone's command, but the Israelis have the right of self determination, and to the extent that their territory and possessions were legally acquired through contract (quite a bit), or acquired when attacked through the illegal actions of others that left previous provision in a state of unresolved limbo (good deal of the rest), they have a right to be there.

  • Bruce Majors||

    +1

  • The Ghost Of Ted Kennedy||

    I um, always resented, uh, Jack, for his, ah, walk on the wild side with that, um, that White House correspondent, ah, Helen uh...Reddy?

  • ||

    [i]All of which is why I wish even the straightest-edge news outlets would follow Reason's still-lonely example and show us (at minimum) who their staffers are voting for. [/i]

    Speaking as a news consumer - not in the business at all myself - I don't think this is necessary. Sure, if a reporter wants to disclose their voting record, I have no problem. And it does help me evaluate their reporting, position, etc.

    On the other hand when I have no idea of a reporter or commentator's political position, I tend to leave my bias behind and evaluate their argument based on the argument alone. Sometimes that leads me to think - ah - he's just a conservalib (or whatever). At other times it stretches my thinking.

    I wouldn't mind seeing more reporters "report" their voting records. But as a news consumer I find value at times by just not knowing.

    I'm sure you & I both agree that this isn't something that should be mandated.

  • ed||

    Anyway, the moral of the story is: retire at least two years before you think you should.

  • ||

    "Show who they are voting for"

    I remember "Slant" ... errr I mean "Slate" doing this at least once before the Obama election of course they were 9/10 Obama but still it was nice they showed their cards.

  • ||

    I just wanted to say I really like your blog!

    Keep up the great work!!

    Steve
    Common Cents
    http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

    ps. Link Exchange/?

  • ||

    Hey you punk ass motherfucker, this site is only big enough for one anon-bot! Now fuck off!

    I mean really! LOL !

    Lou
    www.anonymity.it.tc

  • ||

    Still can't believe that 5 senior Reason editors were snookered by the fucking idiot that is Obama.

  • Xmas||

    I'd give them a break on that. I mean, the choice was between McCain and Obama. McCain couldn't keep his message straight and had a campaign that started self-destructing and finger-pointing BEFORE the election.

    Obama had a campaign that was running a slick, ground-up operation that toppled the Clinton machine. He appeared to be a great organizer and leader. That the press didn't dig into the Obama campaign and find out that it was actually run by...hold on, there's a knock at my door, brb.

  • ade||

    So Reason editors were seduced by the slickness of a campaign?

  • Bruce Majors||

    They live inside the Beltway and hobnob with other journalists here.

    I have offered them all my therapeutic services but none have taken me up on it...yet...

  • ||

    I know people like to play "gotcha", but you have to know something of her background. Like it or not, her roots are Christian Lebanese and most Orthodox and Byzantine Christians around the Mediterranean are going to be sympathetic to the Palestinians. She said nothing different than what most other people with roots in that part of the world would say, including most of my extended family.

  • Drax the Destroyer||

    Right with you Danny boy. Except Papa Drax(who was a Greek Orthodox Palestinian until he realized god doesn't exist--somewhere around his third stint of unemployment) would have loved at one point to have Israel become a cosmopolitan melting pot of once antagonistic cultures. Sadly, revenge, a sense of superiority/manifest destiny and insanity(hardcore religion) on everyone's part in the region make that impossible.

  • Solanum||

    Helen is planning on celebrating her retirement by booking a room at the Overlook Hotel in Colorado and taking a long bath. Room 237, I believe...

  • Bruce Majors||

    Wish I got the reference. Suspicious suicide I hope.

  • Troy Riser||

    I really don't understand the undertone of sympathy in much of the Helen Thomas coverage I've been reading. Thomas said what she meant, meant what she said, and she's no doubt been saying it for years in the company of others, albeit couched in the progressive patois that pretends objectivity and employs 'Zionists' instead of 'Jews'.

    Thomas is emphatically not some sweet little old lady meandering into her twilight years and somewhat off her game. She's a virulent, antisemitic witch and her peers who knew of her particular opinions should've called her out years ago and shoved her out to the moonbat fringe where she belongs, along with the Reuters photo-cropper who recently very magically disappeared weapons held in the hands of Gaza blockade runners.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Because they are a herd of sheeple who agree with their views as most Leftovers do.

    As a DC acquaintance of mine once said in between her tasks of fundraising for John Edwards and serving on the national board of the Human Rights Campaign "I wish those Jews were run into the sea so they would stop being a nuclear trip wire endangering the whole world."

  • ||

    She gives Lebanese-Americans a bad name.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Like so many people in America, of all colors and creeds, you basically just want to eat in their restaurant and otherwise have them STF up.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Like so many people in America, of all colors and creeds, you basically just want to eat in their restaurant and otherwise have them STF up.

  • ||

    To Danny K,

    You are right...

  • Suki||

    What happened to the nested thread protesters?

  • margot||

    first of all, it is true, jews did live in palestine way before the holocaust, but they were palestinian jews. second of all, how come most jews from abroad may have dual nationality and live wherever they feel like living and palestinians are living in their own home land on a leash dictated by their occupiers? third of all the only probblem is, those who are holding the leash think they are superior human beings and can do what ever they please. put them on the leash and turn the tables around and then ask helen thomas what she thinks! i am sure her opinion will again be fair.

  • ||

    Actually, as of 2008, 70% of Jews in Israel were born there. As to Jews from abroad having dual nationality, Israel (like every other country in the world) is entitled to control its immigration policy. The modern state of Israel was founded as a restoration of the ancient homeland of the Jewish people. Since they had been driven out of it (and since the Ottoman Turks who formerly ruled it made it difficult for Jews to live there), I'm not sure why you think it's unreasonable for the Jews who are now in charge to make it easier for other Jews to return. As to the so-called Palestinians, there was never a nation called "Palestinian" until the Jews got their state in 1948 and the Arabs wanted to take it away. As to your silly complaints about how the Israelis run their country, I wonder if you feel as strongly about the way Arab countries treated their Jewish populations... or if you even cared enough to find out about it.

  • Suki||

    Margot,

    Not sure where you are but here in the USA lots of people have dual nationality too. I have seen them in person! What strikes me as odd is the countries around Israel where people calling themselves Palestinian can't get citizenship in the countries they are born in, like pre-free-Gaza, or the West Bank. Guessing that list is longer.

  • margot||

    one more note, for those of you who have not experienced life as a Palestinian, please do not put insulting comments. First live it, feel it, experience it, try to deal with is (in a peaceful manner), and then comment, otherwise all of you are also biased!! Simple example, if you are a person who takes traveling from one city in your country to another for granted, try to live it differently, apply
    for a permit from some authority you don't recognize, wait for the permit to be issued (or not) and then see how it feels! We are all human beings and we are all born equal, and that is how it should be!

  • Bruce Majors||

    So since you believe in human equality you must believe a Jew has an equal right to life, to freedom of movement, and to self-defense.

    Or do you not include them in "humans"?

  • margot||

    Dearest Bruce,

    First of all I never said Jews should not stay in Palestine. I only said, who ever is Jewish with dual nationality can go back home, because they have a base there and they have all the right documentation to make a life for themselves there. On the other hand, Palestinians have difficulty to live in their BIRTHPLACE and this should not happen. If you stopped for a minute to THINK rather than just react, or even taken the time to educate yourself more, you would be thinking differently about this subject.

    Some suggestions on reading further to educate yourself before your next outburst:
    The Ben Gurion Scandals (By N. Giladi) You will find in this book that Zionist Jews are very good with propaganda. Many examples were mentioned including documentation to prove all this, that the Haganah and the Mossad eliminated Jews in the process of establishing the State of Israel, the elimination of Jews happened in Europe and the Arab World. (READ TO EDUCATE YOURSELF)
    Another book worth reading: The Holocaust Industry by Norman Finkelstein
    Watch Zeitgeist and get more information. You will only find it on google/video because youtube keeps removing it. (Any clues why?)

    If you would like to show a more intelligent side please read up, because I certainly am not interested in reading your statements which are full of arrogance and reflect that you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder.

    And another thing, the USA has a choice to not support Israel, but it is a costly choice because of AIPAC and the Jewish Lobby!

    Want to be more aggressive, I can share with you more evidence that the Zionist Jews of the world are so good at propaganda that for those of us who know facts and who know history, believe it is pathetic there are people out there who are not willing to educate themselves and end up supporting Israel and it’s ILLEGAL actions while turning a blind eye to the facts on the ground. WHY? Well the truth is, Zionism has used the goodness of peoples hearts to their benefit, and they love to raise the flag of :”OH poor Jews, poor, poor Jews!” The only POOR JEWS out there are the ones being misrepresented by Zionists in the world.
    i.e. Zionist Jews are not the real Jews of the world! And there is a major difference.

  • ||

    Anyone interested in the phenomenon of impartial truth seekers changing into unabashed advocates for a political agenda would do well to read Benda's "Treason of the Intellectuals."

  • ||

    Given the way American's kiss Israeli's ass, I understand her frustration and outburst.

  • Bruce Majors||

    The fact that the U.S. is almost the only country that seems to care whether Israeli's are all murdered or not is not exactly kissing anyone's ass.

    I find you foul.

  • Carolyn||

    As someone who is acquainted with Helen Thomas, it pains me to see her career end this way. I concur with Matt's observations that forcing reporters to keep their opinions to themselves leaves them frustrated, but look what happens over at Fox when they let them out. Helen served a purpose no one has talked about: she asked questions that other reporters feared to ask lest they lose their seats in the press room. She might be dismissed as a hag, and GWB ignored her, but when she asked a question, the answer (or lack of one) brought light to dark corners. We'll miss her.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Can you name three interesting questions Thomas ever asked for those of us who found them forgettable?

    My suspicion is they were rote parrot points from the DC flak-ery hive.

  • Harry Husted||

    What's the big deal. All she said was that the Jews need to leave Palestine alone. They should. That was never their country or territory. Actually, it isn't all about the Jews. It is about the Israelites, which only a small number of them are Jews. Either way, Palestine was given to the Arabs, so the Jews and the rest of the people in Israel should stay out of that land.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Silly. She said Jews should "go back" to Poland and Germany the countries that murdered millions of them.

    And since 40% of Israeli Jews are Sephardim who ALWAYS lived in Trans-Jordan/British Palestine, or who fled there when Miss Thomas's own cousins in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt and Libya tried to kill them, they cannot "go back" to Germany or Poland, where none of their ancestors ever lived.

  • ||

    I'm 74 and know about being old. Helen is old.

  • Bruce Majors||

    +1

    I'm a couple of decades behind you and I already agree.

  • The Social Critic||

    Sure Helen Thomas is old ("ancient" I feel is derogatory, however). And certainly she's put up with the shenanigans of history up close and personal longer than just about anyone else in media or even politics. Try feigning objectivity for over 60 years; I challenge anyone who thinks that no faux pas would occur in that time to stop dreaming.

    Having said that, I agree that it is about time for Thomas to retire. However, I feel retirement should be on her terms — not out of pressure; not out of disgrace. The propensity of Thomas' career and legacy, after all, does not support the idea that a foot-in-mouth moment should undo all those achievements in one fell swoop.

    You see journalists also once understood something else: The idea isn't that we Americans agree with one another but that we respect one another's right to differ because freedom of speech is the American way. But, alas, that's not the only "mutual understanding" that is fading faster by the day: Thomas is an elder. In Western Society, we simply don't respect the aged the way we ought. One disrespectful statement on Thomas' part does not justify a whole host of other cruel remarks. Such behavior amounts to retaliation, and there's nothing "adult" about childish tit-for-a-tat behavior. Two wrongs still don't make a right.

    To some this is nothing more than a story about an elderly reporter's politically incorrect comment about Jews and Palestinians. To me, however, it is also — perhaps even primarily so — a story about the First Amendment and how poorly the average American has come to comprehend or appreciate that right. Make no mistake: It's in the rearview mirror now, just as passé as Thomas' career.

    Toto, we're not in America anymore.

  • Bruce Majors||

    Most Washington commentators are disgraced by their very whorish natures and their own ignorance and malevolence.

    One down, many to go.

  • ||

    Wine-soaked? Is Welch suggesting that Thomas might have other issues, besides old age and crankines?

  • The Social Critic||

    It would appear so, Belinda. Never mind that most life-long alcoholics end up with cirrhosis of the liver. That Thomas is/was working at 89 would appear to indicate otherwise.

    Not to be missed is yet another irony: Matt Welch's clichéd comparison to Old School reporters: Bottles of whisky (wine, what have you) on the desk. Taking swigs between assignments. The only thing he's missing is the dangling cigarette, and the feet up on the desk.

    All irony aside, the allusion is nothing short of a disrespectful attempt at humor. Except this story isn't one to be made light of, IMHO.

  • Bruce Majors||

    I am sure it was difficult being such a beauty. Men probably harassed her all throughout her career.

  • ||

    Among the majority of her peers, who have mostly become frightened careerists fearful of losing their jobs if they exhibit anything other than approved herd thinking, Thomas is admired and resented. Whatever personal flaws she might have, age seeming to be a recurrent failing cited by the snarky young'ns who blog, she's unafraid. Fear is endemic among our mainstream press employees, mainly because of job security. That fear serves all the forces that oppose progressive thought and objective journalism here and around the world. As for the Jewish question, Israel was an ill-conceived concept from the get-go, supported by the Truman administration only to ensure winning the states of New York, Illinois, and Pennsylvania in the 1948 presidential election. Like 'em or not -- and they are often very hard to like -- the Palestinians got the shaft, big time. They had nothing to do with the Holocaust, but they paid the price of losing their homeland to a bunch of addled folks who felt stateless. As for Israel, like many Middle Eastern nations, it is a poster boy for why religion and government should be separate. Helen Thomas might not be likable either, but she isn't interested in making you like her; she's a blunt, truth-teller. This time, the sound-byte "gotcha" media culture tripped her up. And what a shame that is. Let the chattering class cluck-cluck. Thomas is a national treasure.

  • Bruce Majors||

    So if Canadians moved to LA and took jobs in Hollywood and bought lots of real estate in Bel Air until the area had a Canadian influence or culture, the former residents would have the right to shoot rockets at their nursery schools and kill their children.

    Good to know.

  • ade||

    " ...but they paid the price of losing their homeland to a bunch of addled folks who felt stateless."

    Except the 78%+ of their historic land which is called Jordan, and is judenrein by law?

  • Bruce Majors||

    As my favorite rabbi of the last century wrote, Chaim Arluck, wrote:

    Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
    Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
    Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
    Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
    Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
    Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
    Let them know
    The Wicked Witch is dead!
    Mayor
    As Mayor of the Munchkin City, In the County of the Land of Oz, I welcome you most regally.
    Barrister
    But we've got to verify it legally, to see
    Mayor
    To see?
    Barrister
    If she
    Mayor
    If she?
    Barrister
    Is morally, ethic'lly
    Father No.1
    Spiritually, physically
    Father No. 2
    Positively, absolutely
    Munchkins
    Undeniably and reliably Dead
    Coroner
    As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her.
    And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead.
    Mayor
    Then this is a day of Independence For all the Munchkins and their descendants
    Barrister
    If any.
    Mayor
    Yes, let the joyous news be spread The wicked Old Witch at last is dead!

  • carolyn||

    Free speech is so hard to implement. Responsibility, level playing field and opinion are NEVER objective, yet we try to make reporters into eunichs of information - with no human evaluative skills or talents. No wonder they go postal when they are released from these unnatural constraints. Hopefully, they can maintain at least responsible expression, still getting facts straight and showing both sides of the argument ... and then adding their evaluation of what's truthful, what's high value (to them), based on their anecdotal observations and any scientific or objective research. It's hard...but worth the effort.

  • Bruce Majors||

    So you are saying we should have a hunting season for flaks?

  • Davd Mack||

    It's my understanding the Helen Thomas is Lebanese. That might explain her support for the Palestinian cause.

  • Rodger Mitchell||

    "The Palestinians . . . paid the price of losing their homeland to a bunch of addled folks who felt stateless."

    When did it become the Muslim homeland. Was Jesus aware of this when he and his fellow Jews lived there 2,000 years ago, about 600 years before Islam was invented?

  • ||

    Helen set journalistic history for women, if any of you would like to learn a little history. It's so nice to pick on an 89 year old women, isn't it? Let the rest of the talkers on TV and radio get away with all they say, which is disgusting, and pounce on Helen immediately. Always, it seems like there are 2 sets of rules when it comes to women, esp. professionals that threaten men.

  • Vegas SEO||

    Ahh Helen - never one to mince words or hold back an opinion. Somewhat entertaining if nothing else.

  • scaffold towers for sale||

    I thought she had a heart attack recently or was it some other health problem...

  • laundry room cabinets||

    I think you are getting her confused with some other century old lady.

  • Las Vegas SEO Joe||

    More than entertaining. Nice to have someone who isn't concerned about being politically correct.

  • Las Vegas SEO||

    True

  • Las Vegas LASIK||

    Totally agree

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