Joe Klein: The Howling Beast on the Borderline Separating Speech From Sedition, Since at Least 2009

Weary Time magazine truth-bear Joe Klein is catching hell for saying this weekend that Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin "rub right up close to being seditious." Video:

On Time's Swampland blog, Klein keeps digging:

On the Chris Mathews Show Sunday, I said that some of the right-wing infotainment gasbags--people like Glenn Beck etc.--were nudging up close to the edge of sedition. This has caused a bit of a self-righteous ruckus on the right. Let me be clear: dissent isn't sedition. Questioning an Administration's policies isn't sedition. But questioning an Administration's legitimacy in a manner intended to undermine or overthrow it certainly is. A rally like this yesterday in South Carolina is a good example of seditious speech. It's not illegal--unless actions are taken to overthrow the government in question--but it is disgraceful and the precise opposite of patriotism in a democracy.

Since sedition is a legal term, I don't know how Klein concludes that "seditious speech" is "not illegal," but the important thing here is that there's a lot of the stuff out there. Here's Smokey Joe last December:

This is borderline sedition. [Rep. Tom] Coburn--who had a friendly relationship with Senator Barack Obama--is saying that giving up on the U.S. government is justified. This helps stoke the hatred of those extremists who see Barack Obama's presidency as illegitimate. It also comes dangerously close to incitement to violence. It certainly deletes Coburn from the list of those who can be considered loyal to the most important American ideals. He should clarify what he means by these statements--and apologize for his hate speech, immediately.

And again with the sedition-border two months prior:

Let me be precise here: Fox News peddles a fair amount of hateful crap. Some of it borders on sedition.

Yeah, nothing says "precise" more than "fair amount" and "borders on"....

The "borderline" formulation is a transparent dodge; I am confident Klein's intellect is sufficiently razor-sharp to determine whether someone has crossed the legal threshold of sedition or not. And I would think that if you're a journalist playing the S-card–that is, if you're a free speech practitioner invoking one of the most notorious anti-free speech categories of law–you should at least have the basic stones to state definitively which of the people you disagree with should be locked up.

Reason on Klein here; on sedition here.

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  • ||

    Okay, Glenn Beck is seditious, but William Ayers, who ACTUALLY BOMBED PEOPLE is just a patriotic dissenter?

  • Tony||

    Who the fuck is William Ayers? He's nobody. He's a bogeyman. He doesn't make millions of dollars spewing venomous demagoguery every single day. Jesus Christ.

  • Anomalous||

    He's a nobody who happens to have been a domestic terrorist and actually murdered people. Glenn Beck may be nuts, but he hasn't killed anybody AFAIK.

  • ||

    PWNED! Tony is a dumbass not to know William Ayers, but I knew that. Bogeymen don't kill in real life.

  • ||

    PWNED? I take it you are about 14 years old?

    Can you name any of the victims murdered by William Ayers? I didn't think so. Try to learn the facts straight. Mr PWNED.

  • michael||

    Attempted murder of my father!!!
    Not murder but close.

  • ||

  • ||

    Brian V. McDonnell,SF police office was killed by a bomb that Ayers and dohrn planted.

  • Tony||

    You are a dumbass of the highest order.

  • .||

    And you are a dumbass of the lower orders.

  • Ed Schultz||

    I wish I made millions of dollars spewing venomous demagoguery.

  • Sudden||

    Sadly they pay you with $15,000 annually and a lifetime buffet at Golden Corral. Evil capitalists!

  • ||

    Williams Ayers is certainly somebody and he does making millions of dollars filling our kid's minds full of leftist/progressive nonsense.

  • ||

    How's about Michael Moore:
    "The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."

    Not seditious?
    Just patriotic dissent?

  • ||

    Question for Tony: If (say) George Bush had been friends and associates and neighbors with an abortion clinic bomber, would you consider it equally irrelevant?

  • Tony||

    I'd consider it sort of hypocritical considering the number of babies Bush has killed.

  • ||

    So you would evade the question, then. (And show that your understanding of war is on par with your understanding of murder.)

  • ||

    He has tenure instead of prison, that's something to care about.

  • Bee Tagger||

    "But questioning an Administration's legitimacy in a manner intended to undermine or overthrow it certainly is."

    Aside from looking at the skin color, how does he divine the speaker's intent?
    Thankfully, he just thinks the manner matters, not the substance. Racism over tea at the vineyard is still safe.

    Also, thanks for equating undermine and overthrow.

  • Nicole||

    I find it comical how many peopl;e who bought (in every sense of the word) Ann Coulter's book "Treason" - equating dissent from Bush's lying his way into war with a capital crime - have their undies in a bunch because Klein uses the word "sedition" in a non-legalistic sense to describe a wall of unfounded libel propagated by cynical liars.

  • ||

    Let me be clear, dissent was patriotic, but things change.

  • ||

    So nobody on the left ever claimed that bush was illegitimate, and none of them wanted to undermine or overthrow him? If you are young enough not to remember most of political history, this kind of thing makes you feel like you're living the doublethink of 1984.

  • ||

    You are right, no one on the left claimed Bush the Lesser was illegitimate. Unless you count the numerous "Bush stole the election" signs. The lefty city councils issuing "arrest warrants" weren't trying to overthrow him either.

  • Tony||

    It's an open question whether the 2000 election was truly legitimate. Since when has the supreme court been vested with the power to elect presidents?

    Where Obama was born is not an open question.

  • Tony||

    Sucking on Obama's cock right now. Slurp. slurp.

  • Sean W. Malone||

    Out of curiosity, are you really dumb enough that you don't remember stuff like this: Bushiter being, literally EVERYWHERE in the United States the last 8 years?

    The stuff that was said about Bush was quite often, in my recollection, far and away worse than anything I've heard directed at Obama. If anything the protesters today are sticking to the actual issues a lot better than the lot I used to walk by every day on my way to class while in Grad School in New York.

  • ||

    He's pretending to not remember it, because he thinks that we're too dumb to.

    That's how all liberals think: Right-wingers are stupid, so we don't really have to make serious arguments. They aren't bright enough to pick up on the double standards.

  • Rabbit Scribe||

    Oh, there's no question in my mind that Bush's first term was wholly illegitimate. And the day can't come soon enough when Al Gore stands in the dock at The Hague and answers for the heinous war crimes that technically took place under his watch. Perhaps George W. Bush could make it a major campaign issue when he runs for, and God willing, wins his second term in 2012.

  • Ghost of Schrödinger's cat||

    you are my hero

  • The Libertarian Guy||

    Unfortunately, Obama was born in America.

  • Ghost of Schrödinger's cat||

    That's because Alan Shepherd buried Obama's real birth certificate on the moon.

  • ||

    So that's why Obama doesn't want to go back?

  • cynical||

    It's more like "partisanthink".

  • Michael Ejercito||

    So nobody on the left ever claimed that bush was illegitimate, and none of them wanted to undermine or overthrow him? If you are young enough not to remember most of political history, this kind of thing makes you feel like you're living the doublethink of 1984.


    Joe Klein is clearly dishonest.

  • Sean Healy||

    And nobody on the right ever said anything like: "you're not a dissenter, you're just on the other side"?

  • DWPittelli||

    In the case of, say, Michael Moore (see above), it seems it was entirely proper to say "you're not a dissenter, you're just on the other side." Would you really disagree?

  • Nicole||

    Have you ever actually seen Fahrenheit 9-11, where Moore exposes the Bush administration's cynical use of terrorism for political gain?

    Oh right: you're embodying it, by trying to portray dissent as disloyalty. So I guess you really can't see it, can you?

  • Nicole||

    I guess DWPittelli also can't remember the string of lies and half-truths that Bush and his cronies told to push for the invasion of Iraq, and how the public and press were cowed into not asking the tough and critical questions his assertions raised?

  • ||

    The link goes to a TPM post about some signs at a rally that say "Send Obama back to Kenya". While I stand behind no one in thinking that the birthers are talking nonsense, but to question Obama's birth certificate is not sedition. It is in fact the opposite of sedition. Sedition is to claim that the constitution and government need to be violently overthrown. The birthers are saying exactly the opposite. Obama, despite what worshipers like Klein think, is not the government. He is a government official. The birthers don't want to over throw the government. They want to keep the government and explicitly accept the legitimacy of the Constitution. They just think the Constitution requires disqualifying the current President. That is not sedition.

  • ||

    That's well put. Thankee, thankee.

  • ||

    It is certainly not sedition, but I'm calling Bullshit on the idea that it's some sort of patriotic act. None of these people were asking to see Bush's or Clinton's (or McCain's, who actually WAS born in a foreign country) birth certificate when they were elected (and Clinton spent large blocs of time outside the US during his young adulthood too). Why is Obama treated this way when no other president or presidential candidate has been? I'm pretty sure I know the reason, but it's a cliche at this point so I won't say it.

  • ||

    I think it may have something to do with the fact that his father was an alien and he spent large portions of his childhood outside of the United States. It is not racism. If his father had been a white South African and he had lived the same life, we still would have this nonsense.

    I don't think the birthers are correct. But you miss the point badly if you think it is because he is black.

  • ||

    Both Bill Clinton and Panamanian-born John McCain also spent large blocs of time outside the US during their childhood/young adult years. How come no requests for birth certificates from them? If you're going to get all serious about defending the Constitution, you have to demand that EVERY president or presidential candidate produce proof of natural born citizenship.

    You're kidding yourself if you think the birther movement isn't motivated by racism. Obviously, that movement forms a tiny sliver of the anti-Obama movement, so its despicability doesn't affect other Obama opponents.

  • Sean W. Malone||

    I'm personally pretty sure some of it is motivated by racism, but Clinton & McCain obviously have 2 American-born parents. So for whatever their childhood experiences were, they were still US natives basically no matter what. I don't really think it's a direct comparison to Obama who has a foreign national father...

    That said, it seems like one the dumbest lines of attack imaginable.

  • ||

    but Clinton & McCain obviously have 2 American-born parents. So for whatever their childhood experiences were, they were still US natives basically no matter what. I don't really think it's a direct comparison to Obama who has a foreign national father...

    So? The Constitution requires one to be a natural born citizen.

    It doesn't care if you have 2, 1 or 0 US citizen parents. So your whole defense of this nonsense is well nonsensical.

    Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 . A US STATE (HI was granted statehood in 1959).

    McCain Was born in the Panama Canal Zone. If either of these two men should receive any scrutiny, McCain's eligibility would be the questionable one.

    Furthermore, the birther argument isn't about parents, the argument is that he was born in fucking Kenya and that his documents are doctored or there is some grand conspiracy to hide his true birthplace.

    And when people like Tom Fucking Tancredo, an ex GOP congressman, gives speeches to the teabaggers stating that he Obama should be sent back to Kenya, really the only logical conclusion is that the objection truly is race based.

  • ||

    McCain did receive scrutiny during the GOP primaries, which is probably the only reason you even know about it.

    So much for race being the factor, as opposed to typical political-loss sour grapes.

  • The Libertarian Guy||

    Tara, if you re-read Aesop's fable, the "sour grapes" thing refers to the fox's rationalization that, were he able to reach the grapes, they'd probably be sour. It had nothing to do with being a sore loser.

    Then again, there are sore winners a-plenty. Some are frequent posters on here.

    Hint.

  • Jason||

    Has anyone ever actually seen a fox eating grapes? It doesn't sound like their typical diet, for sure.

  • ||

    Saying Hawaii is a U.S. State is like saying Alaska is. Sure it looks good on paper, but geez, are you serious?

  • Jim Treacher||

    Maybe because Clinton and McCain's fathers were American citizens? And they didn't have half-siblings scattered throughout the globe? Whoops, guess that's "racist" too.

  • Sean Healy||

    Stop pretending to be dumber than you are.

    In any case Obama would have been a natural born citizen even if he had been born in Kenya b/c his mother was 1) a US citizen who had 2) lived at least 10 years in the US prior to the birth 3) five of which were after her 14th birthday. Natural born does not mean born in the USA. My kids are natural born citizen but born abroad. Read the citizenship and nationality laws.

  • MJ||

    Obama's the first president in over a century who has a non-citizen parent. There seem to always be people who try to find reasons why a President is illegutimate. With Clinton it was proving past corruption, with Bush it was proving he was AWOL from the National Guard. The unique circumstances of Obama parentage or enough of an explanation of why the obsessives are focusing on where he was born than racism.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    It is certainly not sedition, but I'm calling Bullshit on the idea that it's some sort of patriotic act. None of these people were asking to see Bush's or Clinton's (or McCain's, who actually WAS born in a foreign country) birth certificate when they were elected (and Clinton spent large blocs of time outside the US during his young adulthood too). Why is Obama treated this way when no other president or presidential candidate has been? I'm pretty sure I know the reason, but it's a cliche at this point so I won't say it.
    reply to this


    There were some reports ( of questionable accuracy) of President Obama being born in Kenya .

    Of course, for us to believe that Barack Obama was born in Kenya requires us to believe that a pregnant teenager of modest means would travel all the way to Africa in 1961 (even today, traveling to Africa requires quite a bit of effort and money). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

  • MJ||

    The conspiracy minded obsessives are not very rational about how extraordinary their claims are.

  • ||

    Actually, I did question McCain's status as a "natural-born" citizen. If the hospital in Panama where he was born was not under U. S. jurisdiction (as it would have been if it were on an American military base) then McCain is not a "natural-born" citizen.

  • veelin||

    Incorrect. I was born of a British mother and an American father, in a village hospital rather than on the base where my father was stationed. My original birth certificate is even in German. But accompanying that is a document titled "Registration of a Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America." That document was sufficient for me to get an American passport as an infant, and a social security card while I was still a minor. One parent who is an American citizen at the time of your birth is really is all you need to be a natural-born American citizen.

    BTW, Britain wouldn't have had me at the time, because citizenship was passed through the paternal line only. Germany wouldn't have had me, because my parents weren't German. Had I lived in Germany for most of my childhood and spoken German, I might have been able to successfully petition the government for citizenship, but I might also have failed at it. The United States is the only nation that claimed me as a citizen at the time of my birth, and they did so unequivocally.

  • Tony||

    This is the biggest pile of sophistic bullshit I've read so far.

    Anyone with literally half a brain is capable of determining the facts here. Anyone halfway interested in having a stable country should realize that you have to have a really damn good reason to challenge the legitimacy of the president, especially when he won the election fair and square by a sizable margin.

  • Jim Treacher||

    Ahhh, nostalgia.

  • Mikey||

    Jefferson wrote about Tony preferring the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty.

  • veelin||

    I think a majority of people here are discussing what does and does not constitute sedition, rather than questioning Obama's legitimacy as president.

  • Roilcube||

    Thanks, John! Finally someone points out the crux of the issue. Mandating that our leaders uphold the constitution IS the exact opposite of sedition.
    (And Jefferson, who predicted a revolution would be necessary every 20 years.... what would he consider sedition??)

  • Hugo Chavez||

    I know sediton when I hear it. And then I shut down their radio & TV stations then lock them up and throw away the key.

  • Sean Penn||

    You tell 'em, dad!!

  • Penn Jillette||

    No relation!

  • prolefeed||

    From wikipedia: Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority.

    By this definition, virtually everyone in Congress is guilty of sedition, since they ignore the constitution and incite people like us to be discontent about lawful authoritah ...

    And most of Balko's posts seem to stir up such discontent, though the "lawful" part of authoritah seems to often be in question ...

  • ||

    "By this definition, virtually everyone in Congress is guilty of sedition"

    and with that, prolefeed wins the thread.

  • ||

    I can't look at the picture and not have the intense desire to punch Klein in the face.

  • Ska||

    X 2

    What's with whiny bearded liberals and their punchability?

  • ||

    It's not a new development by a long shot. Personally I would have loved it if WFB had followed through back in the day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8

  • marlok||

    he looks like clint howard minus any charm. And by that, he looks like a bug-eyed alien is about to emerge from his face.

  • ||

    Paul Krugman has the same affect on me.

  • kinnath||

    Sedition at its finest:

    When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

  • ||

    Yeah, Klein used the word sedition like it is a bad thing. Any real patriot would be advocating sedition nowadays.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    You can argue for a policy but you can't argue against a policy. It's a fine line between voter activism and sedition, and if you're at Reason in the first place you've probably already stepped over it.

  • ||

    "You can argue for a policy but you can't argue against a policy."

    Just watch me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBI5mC0h-jg

  • Steve Smith||

    Klein may be politically incorrect in his verbiage, but what he says is legally correct.

  • ||

    How can one be "legally correct" when, as Klein himself says, there are no legal issues here? Seriously, just asking.

  • ||

    No it isn't. You man raping ape man. First, he doesn't make any legal conclusions. He just uses weasel words like "dangerously close" which relieves him from the responsibility of having to defend his position. What does "dangerously close" mean? Nothing is what it means.

    Second, sedition as shown above is the subversion of lawful authority and the incitement of others to do so. Saying that Obamacare should be repealed or even saying Obama is not eligible to be President is doing nothing of the sort. Sedition would be telling people to refuse to pay taxes or to break the law. None of that is happening.

    Third, Klein no doubt thinks the student movement back in the 1960s was fabulous. Burning draft cards and telling others to do the same really is sedition. But, since it is sedition he agrees with, he is fine with it. Klein is just slimming his opponents.

  • Solanum||

    No it isn't. You man raping ape man.

    Oh, SHIT

  • ||

    As an ape-man who sometimes enjoys a good raping, I'm offended by this callous mockery.

  • Cabeza de Vaca||

    When Steve Smith isn't attacking unsuspecting hikers. He loves a good game of whack-a-mole, or baseball.

    http://www.messinwithsasquatch.....amole.html

    http://www.messinwithsasquatch.....eball.html

  • Ska||

    I have to say that ape-man comment was the most laugh worthy thing I've read today.

    I followed up by playing the Kinks.

  • Almanian||

    What John said - refuse to pay taxes and break the law! Woo hoo!!

    I suddenly have a strong urge to have a drink...

  • ||

    Klein is coming dangerously close to libel in that article. Rubbing up against slander, too.

  • Journalism major||

    You can't slander someone with written words.

    Slander = transitory statements (yelling "YOU MAN-RAPING APE MAN")

    Libel = written/broadcast statements (yelling "YOU MAN-RAPING APE MAN" in front of national television cameras)

  • Solanum||

    John, you're either the bravest man I know or the most foolish. That's the real Steve Smith and I think you actually scared him off.

  • ||

    He's far from the first to do so here...

  • ||

    He just uses weasel words like "dangerously close" which relieves him from the responsibility of having to defend his position.

    Oh, so he just writes like David Harsanyi.

  • Warty||

    STEVE SMITH NOT TOLERATE SEDITION! RAPE NOW!

  • Colin||

    Perhaps he should go back to writing stuff anonymously.

  • wackyjack||

    Followed by a vicious smear campaign against anyone who recognized his hackery.

  • Jersey Patriot||

    All of this is very confusing. I propose a Sedition Czar.

  • Fidel Castro||

    I'll do it! I miss the good old days, Che and I "taking care" of dissenters...

  • Barack Obama||

    Tell me more, Fidel. I'm taking notes.

  • Rabbit Scribe||

    +1.5 trillion. Drop me a line if you need any more!

  • Jennifer||

    But questioning an Administration's legitimacy in a manner intended to undermine or overthrow it certainly is.

    So all those people who insisted Bush didn't really win the 2000 election were committing acts of sedition?

  • Klein||

    No no no, that was patriotism. There's a very subtle difference but you racist teabaggers just can't see it.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    No no no, that was patriotism. There's a very subtle difference but you racist teabaggers just can't see it.


    So then David Duke was a patriot for traveling to Syria to publicly oppose the occupation of Iraq and badmouth America in general?

  • ||

    No, no that's speaking truth to power, which is patriotic. Didn't you get the memo!?!

  • ||

    So all those people who insisted Bush didn't really win the 2000 election were committing acts of sedition?

    Are all questions of legitimacy created equal?

    Joke Line may be ineloquent in the way he is phrasing it, but there is a HUGE difference between questioning the validity of Bush's 2000 election and claiming the Obama isn't a legit pres. because his papers are counterfeit and their is a grand conspiracy to hide the fact that he was born in Kenya.

    The 2000 election was a questionable election and I think it's fair for people to question the legitimacy of a president who was declared the winner by a 5-4 supreme court decision.

    Equating the questioning of that with the birther nonsense is ridiculous. Facts and context are relevant.

    This is a false equivalence.

  • Sudden||

    Are not both questions legitimately questioning whether the president meets the qualifications stipulated in the constitution? I would say so, ergo, neither act is sedition.

  • mick travis||

    If Republicans were to launch some sort of coup to overthrow the Obama administration and cloak it in 'save the constitution' rhetoric - how many tea party folks would mind really if not actually rallying around them? Quiet a few I would imagine.

  • ||

    So, in a highly unlikely counterfactual, it is possible that "quite a few" people might be seditious.

    Glad we got that cleared up.

    Could somebody with access to Nexus let us know how many times Mr. Klein seditiously questioned the legitimacy of the Bush regime after the contested 2000 election? Thanks.

  • celtigirl||

    Gosh, the flying monkeys and Winkie soldiers gave Dorothy the broomstick after she *killed* the witch. Were they seditious or just opportunistic? I'm imagining both.

  • Slut Bunwalla||

    Now that I think about it, that was kinda fucked up. They all hated the witch, but not one of them had the courage to "accidentally" spill some water on her or something?

  • ||

    No, no, no. In the eastern part of Oz, the constitution (unwritten) clearly established a watery, yet orderly, means of succession. Dorothy was the rightful ruler of East Oz.

  • celtigirl||

    Precisely Pro L. And also rightful ruler of West Oz viz. the dropping real estate market. I love imagination time :-)

  • ||

    I didn't want to confuse the issue by also noting her rightful rule of West Oz (as demonstrated by her wearing of the ruby slippers).

  • ||

    And if a bunch of ANSWER types shot Bush and overthrew the government back in 2005, how many Democrats would have been loudly cheering?

  • Jennifer||

    Dozens.

  • ||

    And if a bunch of ANSWER types shot Bush and overthrew the government back in 2005, how many Democrats would have been loudly cheering?

  • Jennifer||

    Hundreds.

  • ||

    And if a bunch of ANSWER types shot Bush and overthrew the government back in 2005, how many Democrats would have been loudly cheering?

  • Jennifer||

    Thousands.

  • ||

    And if a bunch of ANSWER types shot Bush and overthrew the government back in 2005, how many Democrats would have been loudly cheering?

  • Jennifer||

    Millions.

  • ||

    And if a bunch of ANSWER types shot Bush and overthrew the government back in 2005, how many Democrats would have been loudly cheering?

  • Jennifer||

    Billions.

  • ||

    That's repesedition.

  • ||

    I love you Jennifer.

  • ||

    Make up your mind will you

  • Warty||

    I'm so glad you're back, Jennifer.

  • ||

    The republicans are already plotting to overthrow the Obama administration.

    We call such an act an election, and I am positive the Tea Parties support that at least in the 90% range.

    Coup attempts in the United States occur every November all around the country.

  • Hugo Chavez, Czar of Sedition||

    Fair elections are hereby deemed seditious.

  • alan||

    Well mick, there are really only two choices. Allow the Federal government to dissolve due to its long term insolvency where circumstances force the states into succession which is the current path supported by the democrats, and a small minority of Republicans who as of yet do not understand what a compromise of principle the Bush administration was in the struggle against Leviathan, or you can support the tea party efforts to rein in the government, and support realistic goals over trophy mantel political ambitions that threaten the vitality of our future as a nation. Your choice. The current path will lead to political violence if left unchecked, not because the tea party is unhinged, but because progressive political ideology is insane and the road it paves is one leading to Hades (Greece sans Mt. Olympus).

  • ||

    This is another reason that Time is a ghost of its former self.
    Were Mr. Klein to use something other than emotion and melodrama ["sedition," indeed‽] he might at times be worth considering. But it has become convenient for the shriekers and schreyers on both sides (Klein, Limbaugh, Rhodes, Hannity, Schultz, and others) who then so alienate everyone that no one will listen.
    Why, Mr. Klein, should you be taken seriously?

  • DenverWill||

    Fine use of the underappreciated interrobang.

  • IceTrey||

    Isn't the States saying they are not going to implement their part of Obamacare sedition?

  • ||

    No.

    It's called the 10th Amendment.

  • Almanian||

    No, I think that's technically "racism"

  • ||

    +1

  • ||

    I don't even know why there's a debate, this stuff is a transparently obvious attempt by Democrats to shut up their opponents.

    I don't even think *they* take it seriously. It's just a fucking rhetorical tactic. It's about demonizing and marginalizing their political opponents. And frankly, Klein is a partisan hack. He's no longer a journalist once's he's pitching fast balls for the administration. Actively labeling people that you're reporting on "seditious" means you are no longer engaged in journalism.

  • Brian Defferding||

    Klein, like Olbermann, is starting to sound just as crazy as the people he rails about (like Glenn Beck).

    It's funny that once the political table turns toward a media pundit's party's favor, suddenly speaking out against their golden boy's policies is un-patriotic and borderline criminal.

  • ||

    Except that Beck never said any such things when his guy was in office. He was far too busy talking about Federal Reserve conspiracies and what-not to spend any time on Bush's critics.

  • when the revolution comes||

    Klein, you just made the list.

  • Molotov Cocktail Party||

    yes he did. And I'll show you pussies what sedition really looks like.

  • Solanum||

    There really needs to be a legal culling of bearded Boomers. It's going to be another 30 years before they all die off and I don't think I can wait that long.

  • ||

    Get the bearded balding ones first.

  • GQ||

    Especially if they wear wire frame glasses with a pierced ear thrown in.

  • ||

    Or a ponytail.

  • ||

    And any time you come across a bearded, balding-with-a-pony-tail, earringed Boomer dude, the instant - the very INSTANT, I tell you - he utters the words "Woodstock," "Martin" or "Bobby," you're free to operate with extreme prejudice in any manner you think fit.

  • ||

    Isn't this a problem which solves itself if we legalize pot?

    See, libertarianism really DOES have all the answers! :)

  • alan||

    When right wingers do it, it is McCarthyism, when the left does it, it's a Monday.

  • Ann Coulter||

    McCarthy was just misunderstood.

  • ||

    No, she was wrong about autism and vaccines.

  • Sean W. Malone||

    +1

  • ||

    And right about Lillian Hellman.

  • Jennifer||

    The hell of it is, I can't stand Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck, and that fuckwad Joe Klein now has me defending their ilk. Ugh.

  • alan||

    Not your fault, Jennifer. I wished I could afford some cultural elitism and throw some spite Palin and Beck's way, but the modern left, well represented here by Joe Klein, is like a monkey who has pulled the pin on a hand grenade and he has no fucking clue he is about to blow up.

  • Michael Ejercito||

    Not your fault, Jennifer. I wished I could afford some cultural elitism and throw some spite Palin and Beck's way, but the modern left, well represented here by Joe Klein, is like a monkey who has pulled the pin on a hand grenade and he has no fucking clue he is about to blow up.


    I support Ron Paul, and voted for him in the primaries nearly two years ago.

    I am glad that Sarah Palin is taking all the heat, like a decoy.

  • ed||

    Decoys don't take heat. They take bird shot.

  • Dick Cheney's Hunting Decoy||

    you can say that again.

  • Kiwi Dave||

    Mission statement of "The World Can't Wait," taken from its own website (http://www.worldcantwait.net/):

    "[WCW] Seeks to to create a political situation where the Bush administration's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he has been taking U.S. society is reversed."

    They also had the slogan "Drive out the Bush regime" (there we have regime again). Prominent in WCW was media darling Cindy Sheehan.

    *sigh*

  • ChrisO||

    Joe Klein may be a boob, but we're talking about him, which is probably all that he intended by spewing such nonsense.

    If one stands outside the two-party system, the political media appears to be little more than monkeys in neckties throwing feces at each other. Which can be entertaining...

  • ||

    I will admit that i do not watch much other coverage outside of reasonTV of the Tea party gatherings. But is it just me or do these people seem way mellow and happy compared to other protests?

    These people look like they are going to a picnic. Way different then a say a Union protest group or Acorn who look like they want to get into a fight.

  • Jim Treacher||

    That's all just to hide their seething racism.

  • Former seditionist||

    These same idiots called me a traitor for opposing the BushPig's evil piggy desert pigwar, so excuse the fuck outta me for calling them traitors for, you know, not-so-subtly advocating violent overthrow of government.

  • Jim Treacher||

    The same ones. You've got their names and everything.

  • Steff||

    Can I see the list? Pretty please?

  • ||

    You've really got a pig obsession there.

    Or were you implying that the war was fought by pigs?

    RACIST!

  • ||

    Your an idiot. Freedom of speech is what this nation was founded on and we won't be silenced. So big unions..tough shit if you don't like the shove back! Wait till election day!

  • Ghost of Schrödinger's cat||

    Why is everyone in the Klein clan a tool? Ezra, Naomi, Joe?
    Is there a normal one?

  • ed||

    Patsy?

  • ||

    Herr Joe Klein is guilty of more than borderline Joseph Goebbels reincarnation.

    We are going to live in Interesting Times the next 2 and a half years as more and more “liberals” let their masks slip off and reveal themselves to be the fascists that they really are.

  • Hillary Clinton||

    Dissent is the lowest form of Sedition!

  • MJ||

    What the left bitches most about when they are out of power is what they will embrace when in power.

  • sean||

    Didn't Joe Klein write a bio of Woody Guthrie? Every damn song he wrote tried to undermine the legitimacy of the US Government.

  • ||

    This is Klein doing his impersonation of Tevye in Fiddler? Right?

    "Sedition!, Sedition!"

    No?

  • Felix Klein||

    I got a nice saucer of hyrdrocyanic acid for ya kitty

  • Ghost of Schrödinger's cat||

    you must be the black sheep

  • JB||

    Klein's existence = treason.

    Klein, will you fix that for me, you cunt?

  • ||

    Anyone have any examples of the 'hateful crap' that borders on sedition in Joe's mind?

    I am not really THAT interested in what Klein thinks to do some research; was just hoping someone had the Cliff Notes version.

  • ||

    Joe Klein is a little sack of shite. He is obviously coming out of his skin with all the push back in the air. Hey Joe (sorry Jimi), you little worm, the push back isn't coming from Glenn Beck. Despite your most ardent wishes, I'm not influenced by people like you, right or left. The push back is coming from ME and many other folks who are sick of Obama/Pelosi/Reid arrogance and hubris. See you in November, Joe.....

  • ||

    STOP GORING MY OX!

  • ||

    It's only sedition if the intent is to overthrow legitimate constitutional government. The government of the United States hasn't been constitutional in more than 100 years because it has been allowed to grow beyond its constitutional bounds.

  • Tony||

    According to you.

  • ||

    Yeah, unless he has a ghostwriter writing his posts, the opinion was his.

    You new at this?

  • PJNevada||

    I could waste my intellectual energy rebutting Mr. Klein, but it would all boil down to the fact that he is a fracking idiot.

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