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Mexico to U.S.: "We Love You." U.S. to Mexico: "Um...Thanks."
Mexicans don't feel too good about their
country these days: More than two-thirds think the country's crime,
drugs, economics, and corruption are "a big problem." But most
agree that things look greener on the
other side of the border fence.
Most believe life is better in the United States. Close to six-in-ten (57%) say that people who move from Mexico enjoy a better life in the U.S., up from 51% in 2007. And the vast majority of those who are in regular contact with friends and relatives living in the U.S. say those friends and relatives have largely achieved their goals.
A substantial minority of Mexicans say that if they had the means and opportunity to go live in the U.S. they would do so, and more than half of those who would migrate if they had the chance say they would do so without authorization.
Not only do they want to be with us, Mexicans love our president:
In a pattern found throughout much of the world, President Barack Obama receives considerably more favorable reviews than his predecessor, George W. Bush. Interestingly, however, Mexico is one of the few countries included in the survey where the U.S. as a country receives higher marks than President Obama or the American people.
Sadly, Obama is following in his predecessor's footstep, with continued crackdowns on illegals.
For more, read Reason on why we need guest workers, and why an open border is a great humanitarian act.
|9.25.09 @ 2:11PM|#
A preemptive STFU, LoneWacko.
Really. I mean it. Nobody wants to hear your drivel or visit the
concentrated insanity you call a website.
John Tagliaferro|9.25.09 @ 2:14PM|#
Not only do they want to be with us, Mexicans love our
president:
Then why don't they take him? Might want to teach him another
language first.
|9.25.09 @ 2:26PM|#
Well actually, as long as he's still alive, everyone who ever
has died is his "predeceasor."
What you long for is his survivors - i.e., all of the rest of us
who remain after he's gone.
Person of Color (beige)|9.25.09 @ 2:26PM|#
Mexicans love our president
Brown people identify with other brown people? Moreso than with
white people?
Isn't that, you know, the "r" word?
|9.25.09 @ 2:29PM|#
Shut the fuck up, all you preemptive LoneReject shut-the-fuck-uppers. I want to hear what His Retardedness feels about the love.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 2:32PM|#
¿Por qué una persona nacida en un lado de un río, tienen más derechos que alguien nacido en el otro lado?
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 2:35PM|#
Obama es un tirano. La mayoría de los mexicanos no saben que sin embargo. Dales tiempo.
Jeff Scott|9.25.09 @ 2:38PM|#
I have no problem with a lawful guest worker program; open
borders, I do have a problem with, for two reasons:
1) Our massive welfare state. We can't sustain it financially with
the American citizens we have now, much less with an influx of the
world's poor.
2) Flooding the labor market with cheap labor that will send the
money out of the United States while deflating wages for American
citizens.
Of course, if you remove the welfare state and minimum wage laws
both points are moot, and there probably wouldn't be a need for a
guest worker program. We still need to have border security for the
purposes of national security anyway.
This is my first post and I don't know who LoneWacko is, so I'll
refrain from telling him to STFU.
|9.25.09 @ 2:39PM|#
More than two-thirds think the country's crime, drugs,
economics, and corruption are "a big problem."
Apparently we're not the only ones who think home sucks. At least
we have Sunday Ticket.
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:39PM|#
"¿Por qué una persona nacida en un lado de un río, tienen más
derechos que alguien nacido en el otro lado?"
Stupid mucho?
|9.25.09 @ 2:40PM|#
Naga, are you ready for the road trip to Mexico? But we need to go to the Italian Market for some chairs. You like haggling, right? What do you mean you've never eaten a pear?
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:41PM|#
"Obama es un tirano. La mayoría de los mexicanos no saben que
sin embargo. Dales tiempo."
RACISTA!
Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.25.09 @ 2:43PM|#
"We still need to have border security for the purposes of
national security anyway."
Funny, before people even knew what a passport was and before the
United States started to meddle in the afairs of other countries
this was not an issue. It was not that many years ago when I would
travel across Lake Erie to Pelle Island just to buy wine (that have
great wine) and I did not need a passport.
Richard|9.25.09 @ 2:44PM|#
Btw, the story at the link clarifies that the "substantial minority" of Mexicans that would move here if they could is one third. That's 35 million people, the majority of whom have little education and speak little-to-no English. I foresee no problem with that at all.
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:46PM|#
"Funny, before people even knew what a passport was and before
the United States started to meddle in the afairs of other
countries this was not an issue. It was not that many years ago
when I would travel across Lake Erie to Pelle Island just to buy
wine (that have great wine) and I did not need a passport."
Los tiempos cambian.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 2:48PM|#
"Stupid mucho?"
Si todo lo que tenemos son insultos que no tienen ningún
argumento.
|9.25.09 @ 2:48PM|#
We still need to have border security for the purposes of
national security anyway.
Pssst: The 9/11 attackers came here legally.
PLant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.25.09 @ 2:50PM|#
"Los tiempos cambian."
It was not "times that changed" but U.S. policies that changed. How
often is Swizerland a victim of terror bombings?
Naga Sadow|9.25.09 @ 2:50PM|#
Pear? Never had one. Or a blueberry. Or strawberry. You know what? I'm gonna have to pass on the gypsy market. What's it like out there? I've never been outta Philly.
|9.25.09 @ 2:51PM|#
1) Our massive welfare state. We can't sustain it
financially with the American citizens we have now, much less with
an influx of the world's poor.
Simple. Don't give them welfare, just like illegal immigrants
today.
Frankly, even legal immigrants shouldn't get any welfare. There
should be no incentive to migrate save the free market. But
migration should be free.
|9.25.09 @ 2:51PM|#
Sadly, Obama is following in his predeceasor's
footstep[s]
Rather, Obama seems to follow on the footsteps of the Mexican
president Luis Echeverria - same economic arguments, same
profligacy; Obama just needs to wear a guayabera and glasses and he
can look the part.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 2:52PM|#
"RACISTA!"
Yo estaría dispuesto a votar por Walter E. Williams.
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:53PM|#
"Si todo lo que tenemos son insultos que no tienen ningún
argumento."
Nos guste o no, hay cosas que se llaman estas fronteras nacionales.
Pero supongo que lo sabías. Para repetir, estúpido mucho?
|9.25.09 @ 2:53PM|#
¿Por qué una persona nacida en un lado de un río, tienen más
derechos que alguien nacido en el otro lado?
No jodas, pendejo. Los merecimientos ("entitlements") NO son
derechos. Las personas tienen los mismos derechos en un lado de la
linea que del otro - lo que cambia es el tipo de tirania. La de los
EE.UU. es una tirania de leyes y legisladores; la de Mexico, de
trogloditas estatistas.
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:54PM|#
"It was not "times that changed" but U.S. policies that
changed."
Boo fucking hoo.
Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.25.09 @ 2:55PM|#
"Boo fucking hoo."
Tell that to the families of 9/11. They are the victims of U.S.
meddling in other countries.
|9.25.09 @ 2:56PM|#
Frankly, even legal immigrants shouldn't get any welfare.
There should be no incentive to migrate save the free market. But
migration should be free.
That is the most reasonable argument I have heard. For instance, I
do not receive nor would I want to receive any entitlement, since I
am not some thief (the money came from someone's pocket, taken by
force and coercion at gunpoint, from a working American.)
|9.25.09 @ 2:56PM|#
I could really use some hot dogs, Naga. What do you say we smash up these wicker chairs and burn them, and cook the hot dogs that way?
Jeff Scott|9.25.09 @ 2:57PM|#
Simple. Don't give them welfare, just like illegal
immigrants today.
Easier said than done (we are talking about government operations
here). President Obama's illegal alien aunt lives in government
housing in Boston, and how many thousands or even millions of
illegal aliens are receiving some sort of welfare now, even if it's
just "free" medical care from them popping into a hospital and
skipping out on the bill? Hospitals in the Southwest are
experiencing billions of dollars in losses because they are caring
for illegal aliens.
Frankly, even legal immigrants shouldn't get any welfare. There
should be no incentive to migrate save the free market. But
migration should be free.
Frankly, even American citizens shouldn't get any welfare.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 2:58PM|#
"Nos guste o no, hay cosas que se llaman estas fronteras
nacionales."
La nacionalidad es un contruct legal. No es una cuestión moral. No
reconozco la legitimidad de la provincia no gubernamentales.
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 2:59PM|#
"They are the victims of U.S. meddling in other
countries."
Stupid mucho, mucho, mucho, puta!
Naga Sadow|9.25.09 @ 3:00PM|#
Sounds good. Good thing you duct taped the U-Haul door open. Could get dangerous.
|9.25.09 @ 3:02PM|#
Most believe life is better in the United States.
The problem is that Mexicans do not realize WHY life is better in
the US than in Mexico (at least, for now). Mexicans have been
indoctrinated by our public school system (just slightly worse than
the American system) into thinking Capitalism is exploitative and
unjust; so it is difficult for Mexicans to ponder on the fact that
America is richer because of the protection to property rights, at
least, nominally better than in Mexico, where community-organized
bums can homestead someone's property with the complacency of the
authorities. The government can seize land at leisure, without even
bothering with procedures like Eminent Domain - the executive
simply orders it! With such disregard for property rights, no
wonder investment is low in Mexico, plus crime WILL be
rampant.
Indeed, Mexicans are lead to believe America is richer because they
exploit poor countries (talk about a non sequitur, but that is the
main tool of the leftists: the non sequitur!)
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 3:02PM|#
"Los merecimientos ("entitlements") NO son derechos. Las
personas tienen los mismos derechos en un lado de la linea que del
otro - lo que cambia es el tipo de tirania. La de los EE.UU. es una
tirania de leyes y legisladores; la de Mexico, de trogloditas
estatistas."
Entonces estamos de acuerdo. ¿Por qué eres hostil?
Rich|9.25.09 @ 3:04PM|#
Mexicans love our president:
Then why don't they take him?
How about a new reality show: "President Swap"?
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 3:04PM|#
"La nacionalidad es un contruct legal. No es una cuestión moral.
No reconozco la legitimidad de la provincia no
gubernamentales."
Buena suerte con eso.
|9.25.09 @ 3:07PM|#
Btw, the story at the link clarifies that the "substantial
minority" of Mexicans that would move here if they could is one
third. That's 35 million people, the majority of whom have little
education and speak little-to-no English. I foresee no problem with
that at all.
Except for a period of insanity during the 1950's, there was
virtually free migration between the US and Mexico from 1848 all
the way through the Clinton Administration -- not to mention the
three centuries before.
People migrate because there are better opportunities somewhere
else. The first 10 million in a decade will find opportunities. The
second and third 10 million? Not so much.
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.25.09 @ 3:10PM|#
"Stupid mucho, mucho, mucho, puta!"
Obviously all you have is very emotional insults. I recommend you
do some research on the reasons the United States was actually
attacked on September 11, 2001.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 3:12PM|#
"Buena suerte con eso."
No necesito suerte. Tengo la verdad.
wacklono|9.25.09 @ 3:15PM|#
Why doesn't the US just make Mexico a state? We could collect taxes ont hem, and they wouldn't have to illegally enter the US, they'd be here already. They have oil, right? Done!
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.25.09 @ 3:16PM|#
"Why doesn't the US just make Mexico a state?"
I have a much better idea. Abolish both governments altogether.
|9.25.09 @ 3:22PM|#
Entonces estamos de acuerdo. ¿Por qué eres
hostil?
I gathered from the question that you assumed people have less
rights than others depending on which side of the border they
lived. If what I assumed from the question is incorrect, I
apologize for calling you a dimwit.
|9.25.09 @ 3:26PM|#
Why doesn't the US just make Mexico a state? We could
collect taxes ont hem, and they wouldn't have to illegally enter
the US, they'd be here already. They have oil, right?
Done!
Mexico has belonged to the US, always.
Also, "we" do not collect taxes, Kimo Sabay. It is the State and
its cohorts of impersonal bureaucrats that extort the money from
people at gunpoint, not "We".
ll blow j|9.25.09 @ 3:29PM|#
"Obviously all you have is very emotional insults. I recommend
you do some research on the reasons the United States was actually
attacked on September 11, 2001."
Hey nice person. I never mentioned 9/11 or national security. My
point is simple kitten sweet person, there is this thing called
national soverienty. That's just the way it is. Maybe it wasn't
always like that, but it is now.
And sweety, gumdrop person, your whole "¿Por qué una persona nacida
en un lado de un río, tienen más derechos que alguien nacido en el
otro lado?" is sugar sweet unicorn pee as pointed out by FTG at
2:53.
|9.25.09 @ 4:07PM|#
For all the hero worship and adulation Obama gets from the
American left and center, it's eleventy-billion times more
prevalent abroad, pretty much everywhere.
From afar, the idea of Obama still prevails in the
minds of foreigners. They have yet to actually experience him in
any tangible way.
Mike M.|9.25.09 @ 4:16PM|#
Our massive welfare state. We can't sustain it financially
with the American citizens we have now, much less with an influx of
the world's poor.
I agree, and in my opinion, this is a major problem that
libertarians don't spend nearly enough time trying to address in a
serious and substantive manner.
Slap the Enlightened!|9.25.09 @ 4:18PM|#
From afar, the idea of Obama still prevails in the minds of
foreigners. They have yet to actually experience him in any
tangible way.
You could make pretty much the same statement about advocates of
open borders and mass immigration. Practical consequences just
don't figure into their calculations.
John Derbyshire had some interesting things to say on the
matter today. Unlike some people, he actually considers the
consequences of the policy positions he advocates.
Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.25.09 @ 4:40PM|#
"Mi lapiz es muy grande."
You have a very large writing implement. Congratulations.
cangrejos fantasmas|9.25.09 @ 4:42PM|#
"You have a very large writing implement.
Congratulations."
At least he's saying something that makes sense.
|9.25.09 @ 4:42PM|#
Practical consequences just don't figure into their
calculations.
Perhaps they do. But when the consistently overstated practical
consequences are so overwhelmed by the moral consequences of
abrogating the inalienable rights of tens of millions of
individuals, their calculations simply show free migration winning
out over restrictive immigration law.
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.25.09 @ 4:43PM|#
"there is this thing called national sovereignty."
I never signed this mythical social contract. It is not valid as
far as I am concerned. I see no moral difference between the United
States Congress and MS13.
cangrejos fantasmas|9.25.09 @ 4:47PM|#
"I never signed this mythical social contract."
And I never signed the mytical social contract prohibiting ass
rape. Or the one about paying taxes to the federal
government.
As someone asked you up thread -- stupid much?
Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.25.09 @ 4:54PM|#
"And I never signed the mythical social contract prohibiting ass
rape."
Rape is a violation of one's natural rights. It is the initiation
of physical force and violence against an innocent, unwilling
participant. This is very different from the mythical social
contract that governments use to lord over their innocent
victims.
"Or the one about paying taxes to the federal government."
I also oppose paying taxes to the federal government. This is a
thing called theft.
Scott66|9.25.09 @ 5:25PM|#
"free migration winning out over restrictive immigration
law."
Free migration will create restrictive laws for the rest of us.
Seriously you think letting in millions of Obama supporters is a
net gain in the freedom department?
"why an open border is a great humanitarian act."
This is liberal logic along the lines of giving all your money to
the poor is a great humanitarian act. It is an emotional argument
not an objective one.
The best thing the US can do for the poor of the world is to try
and prrserve a free market economy. The reason billions of people
are moving out of poverty across the globe is because staple goods
have become cheap. The US moving towards socialism will only hurt
people everywhere.
24AheadDotCom|9.25.09 @ 5:43PM|#
1. This article about the Kochtopus
and NAFTA was written in 1993, but it could have been written
yesterday. In fact, you can see bits of it at this site most every
day, such as when KMW refers to enforcing our laws as something
"sad".
2. Two and a half years ago, I called Bush a
Quisling for making a pledge to the Mexican government and their
people. No matter how much he sold out the U.S. and pandered,
he would always be considered a bad guy. There's a lesson there
even for hacks like those at this site, but they aren't smart
enough to learn it.
|9.25.09 @ 5:54PM|#
The best thing the US can do for the poor of the world is to
try and prrserve a free market economy.
"Sorry, Jose. We're trying to preserve a free market economy.
There's no place here for your freedom to labor, freedom to reside,
and freedom to travel."
The reason billions of people are moving out of poverty across
the globe is because staple goods have become cheap.
No it's not. The reason people are moving out of poverty across the
globe is because of the liberalization of markets.
Restricting the freedom of markets in the US by restricting the
freedom of migration of individuals is harming the
liberalization of markets.
seguidor de los derechos de la|9.25.09 @ 6:13PM|#
"La puta esta en su casa."
Así que tienes que ir ahora? Hasta luego.
TallDave|9.25.09 @ 6:45PM|#
Do you know why Mexico always does so lousy in the
Olympics?
Because every Mexican who can run, jump or swim is already here in
the U.S.
Slap the Enlightened!|9.25.09 @ 7:04PM|#
But when the consistently overstated practical consequences
are so overwhelmed by the moral consequences of abrogating the
inalienable rights of tens of millions of individuals, their
calculations simply show free migration winning out over
restrictive immigration law.
A statement you have repeatedly made - and a "right" you have yet
to demonstrate exists.
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.25.09 @ 7:05PM|#
I was a naïve teenager when NAFTA was signed into law by Bill
Clinton. My hope, at the time, was that it would enable Mexico to
quickly develop and become a kind of Latin American version of
Japan. What I didn't know at the time was about all of the
exceptions and exemptions in the law. It was a phonebook sized
treaty. A true free trade treaty does not need to be longer than a
single paragraph. I can write it in two sentences:
"No signatory to this treaty shall not impose any tariff or other
tax on any product imported from any other signatory if that
product is legal in both the importing and exporting nation and
meets all quality and safety standards for such products in both
the importing and exporting nation. No signatory to this treaty
shall impose any quota or other limits upon the importation of any
product that is legal in both the importing and exporting nation
and meets all quality and safety standards in both the importing
and exporting nation."
How did I do?
|9.25.09 @ 9:02PM|#
A statement you have repeatedly made - and a "right" you
have yet to demonstrate exists.
The rights I note here are the right to labor, the right of
residence, and the the right to travel.
All of those preexist government. None of those require any force
be imposed on anyone else. All of those are the very self-evident
unalienable rights endowned by the Creator that Thomas Jefferson
wrote of.
So I gather you think you don't have those rights. Why not?
qwerty|9.25.09 @ 11:08PM|#
Sadly, Obama is following in his predecessor's footstep,
with continued crackdowns on illegals.
hehehehehehehehe
Oh yeah, Bush and Obama are really tough on illegal immigration.
Excuse me...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Marcus Tullius Cicero|9.26.09 @ 12:34AM|#
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.
|9.26.09 @ 1:32AM|#
Wow, shitty quality of life in Mexico. What a suprise,next you will tell me that the demographics in Los Angeles have changed significantly and that the quality of life has coincidentally gone down too. (Just a coincidence of course, of course)
jester|9.26.09 @ 2:50AM|#
"For all the hero worship and adulation Obama gets from the
American left and center, it's eleventy-billion times more
prevalent abroad, pretty much everywhere."
Mexicans worship the darky version of the Virgin: La Guadalupe. So
it's a natural tendency. Humans have an innate tendency to value
those that look like them over those that don't. It takes
experience and determined study to realize that those that look
like you are more likely to fuck you over.
jester|9.26.09 @ 2:53AM|#
Q: Why don't Mexicans want to emigrate to Guatemala? There are
plenty of beans and corn tortillas there and they speak
Spanish.
A: The border is closed and heavily guarded. Illegal entry involves
scaling dangerous erupting volcanoes and risking attack by quetzal
birds and jaguars.
jester|9.26.09 @ 3:00AM|#
I think if we replaced one of the fifty stars on our flag with a bald eagle eating a snake and hang doily balls on the lower edge, they'd love us more.
jester|9.26.09 @ 3:09AM|#
"Oh yeah, Bush and Obama are really tough on illegal
immigration. Excuse me..."
They have raised the cost of an illegal border crossing. Low cost:
Mexican worker comes to America for work, builds nest egg, returns
to Mexico and starts business. High cost: Mexican worker sends for
wife, gets her pregnant and child is born in US insuring his
permanent stay. Furthermore, US-born child insures welfare payments
to bring family (including and based on Mom, Dad and siblings born
in Mexico) to above poverty-level.
Tough borders increase cost to social welfare programs. It is
counter-intuitive, so at least for now I'll refrain from calling
you a jackass.
jester|9.26.09 @ 3:18AM|#
Tall Dave,
Q: What about Mexican pole vaulters? Mexican pole dancers? Mexican
speedskaters?
A: No padding on US side; Donkey Shows illegal in US; no hielo.
jester|9.26.09 @ 3:23AM|#
"A true free trade treaty does not need to be longer than a
single paragraph."
Amen, brother. But I can do it in one sentence.
'There shall be free trade (i. e. no duties)between the United
States of America and Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos.'
BTW What's a phonebook?
jester|9.26.09 @ 3:30AM|#
Y DosCuatroMamadaPutoJaquetero, por favor, te dijeron al inicio. Callate, pinche puto maricon.
</a>|9.26.09 @ 12:05PM|#
Oh yeah, Bush and Obama are really tough on illegal
immigration. Excuse me...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That surprises you? Here's a tip: anything that prevents the US
from sliding into 3rd world status will be an object of derision at
Reason.
MJ|9.26.09 @ 6:10PM|#
"Not only do they want to be with us, Mexicans love our
president..."
Somehow that does not reassure me as to the good effects of
importing Mexicans into this country. Sound like we'd be bringing
in more the political attitudes that make Mexico a hellhole it;s
population is looking to escape.
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