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It's Not a Tax Increase, It's Just Government Taking Your Money
Obama hit the Sunday morning yackety yak show yesterday, and did some dancing around the t-word (via the WSJ):
Appearing on ABC's "This Week," Mr. Obama was asked by host George Stephanopoulos about the "individual mandate." Under Max Baucus's Senate bill that Mr. Obama supports, everyone would be required to buy health insurance or else pay a penalty as high as $3,800 a year. Mr. Stephanopoulos posed the obvious question about this kind of coercion when "the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don't [buy insurance]. . . . How is that not a tax?"
"Well, hold on a second, George," Mr. Obama replied. "Here's what's happening. You and I are both paying $900, on average—our families—in higher premiums because of uncompensated care. Now what I've said is that if you can't afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn't be punished for that. That's just piling on. If, on the other hand, we're giving tax credits, we've set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we've driven down the costs, we've done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you've just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that's . . ."
"That may be," Mr. Stephanopoulos responded, "but it's still a tax increase." (In fact, uncompensated care accounts for about only 2.2% of national health spending today, but that's another subject.)
Mr. Obama: "No. That's not true, George. The—for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore . . ." In other words, like parents talking to their children, this levy—don't call it a tax—is for your own good.
Mr. Stephanopoulos tried again: "But it may be fair, it may be good public policy—"
Mr. Obama: "No, but—but, George, you—you can't just make up that language and decide that that's called a tax increase."
"I don't think I'm making it up," Mr. Stephanopoulos said. He then had the temerity to challenge the Philologist in Chief, with an assist from Merriam-Webster. He cited that dictionary's definition of "tax"—"a charge, usually of money, imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes."
Mr. Obama: "George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're stretching a little bit right now. . . ."
Mr. Stephanopoulos: "I wanted to check for myself. But your critics say it is a tax increase."
Mr. Obama: "My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say that I'm taking over every sector of the economy. You know that. Look, we can have a legitimate debate about whether or not we're going to have an individual mandate or not, but . . ."
Mr. Stephanopoulos: "But you reject that it's a tax increase?"
Mr. Obama: "I absolutely reject that notion."
Reason on Obama's already broken promise not to raise taxes here.
Kyle Jordan|9.21.09 @ 11:26AM|#
"Mr. Obama: "I absolutely reject that notion."
Then you're either a fucking idiot or a damn liar. Probably both.
And maybe even a bit delusional.
0%|9.21.09 @ 11:26AM|#
"In other words, like parents talking to their children, this
levy-don't call it a tax-is for your own good."
Where did daddy touch you? Show me on the doll where daddy touched
you.
M|11.4.09 @ 3:04PM|#
Read it again; that sentence is not part of the quote but rather an editorial insertion. Although arguably true, Obama himself didn't say it.
|9.21.09 @ 11:27AM|#
Wow, just wow.......
How do I learn to obfuscate the truth like this so I can holds lots
of power and waste your tax dollars?
|9.21.09 @ 11:27AM|#
No Kyle, he thinks you are an idiot and will believe anything he
tells you. His commercials for 2012 ought to come with a closing
line of
"I'm Barrack Obama. I am smart and you are stupid. And I can tell
you proles anything no matter how stupid and contradictory and you
are going to believe it. And if you don't, you are just bickering
and being devisive."
|9.21.09 @ 11:28AM|#
"What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other
people carrying your burdens for you anymore..."
The irony goggles! They do nothing!
|9.21.09 @ 11:29AM|#
"And if you don't, you are just bickering and being
devisive."
No, actually your being racist....
|9.21.09 @ 11:29AM|#
Wow! Whether one calls taking my money a tax or not really matters very little. I'm actually a little surprised Obama was so adamant about this.
Meta4|9.21.09 @ 11:34AM|#
"In other words, like parents talking to their children, this
levy-don't call it a tax-is for your own good."
Talk about paternalism! Wow! The bitch doesn't even try to hide
it.
|9.21.09 @ 11:36AM|#
How do I learn to obfuscate the truth like this so I can
holds lots of power and waste your tax dollars?
Chicago?
My critics say everything is a tax increase. My critics say
that I'm taking over every sector of the economy. You know
that.
Note the absence of a denial here.
|9.21.09 @ 11:40AM|#
I listened to that exchange, and the most (only) surprising
thing was the little weasel's refusal to let the Presidential Suit
off the hook.
And, yes,
we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for
you anymore
made me yell at the teevee.
|9.21.09 @ 11:41AM|#
My critics say that I'm taking over every sector of the economy
...when it's only health care, and manufacturing -- and telecoms
and energy -- oh, and finance. But zucchini farming will remain as
free as ever. What was the question, again, George?
|9.21.09 @ 11:43AM|#
...when it's only health care, and manufacturing -- and
telecoms and energy -- oh, and finance. But zucchini farming will
remain as free as ever. What was the question, again,
George?
I heard he's promising to raise the chocolate ration to 25
grams.
|9.21.09 @ 11:46AM|#
Only tangentially related, but
this item in this morning's paper caught my eye.
The delay in benefits approval, experts say, can mean a slow slide into poverty, with laid-off workers eating up their savings or even losing their homes. Older workers with health problems are increasingly turning to disability to stay afloat after losing their jobs because they are often less likely to find new employment, experts say.
It takes an average of 676 days to get a claim processed at Metro Detroit's Oak Park office -- the third longest wait time among the country's 142 hearings offices. Only the Madison, Wis., and Indianapolis offices are slower at 688 and 719 days, respectively.
Processing takes 659 days in Detroit, which ranks fifth slowest in the country. The average wait time nationwide is 487 days.
That's the Social Security
Disabilty Insurance Program.*
I guess I'm just a cynical bastard that doesn't appreciate the
government's Herculean efforts to take care of us.
* You may note the government's website doesn't mention their
molasses in January response times on their website.
|9.21.09 @ 11:46AM|#
you get hit by a bus\
This would be covered by auto insurance, but thanks for avoiding
reality.
Tomcat1066|9.21.09 @ 11:49AM|#
How in the hell is looking up a definiting in the fucking dictionary "stretching a little bit" in the least? I mean, I thought that's what the fucking book is for.
Rich|9.21.09 @ 11:49AM|#
Continuing to study Obamaese ...
The-for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to
get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase.
He's right: "us saying something" is *not* a tax increase.
|9.21.09 @ 11:50AM|#
If, on the other hand, we're giving tax credits, we've set up an
exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we've driven down the
costs, we've done everything we can and you actually can afford
health insurance, but you've just decided, you know what, I want to
take my chances. And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have
to pay for the emergency room care, that's . . ."
...an enormous pile of horsehit. How many logical fallacies can
Obama get to dance on the head of a pin?
|9.21.09 @ 11:54AM|#
we've done everything we can and you actually can afford
health insurance,
Maybe, just maybe, we should be thinking about making
health CARE "affordable".
|9.21.09 @ 11:54AM|#
Xeones,
Tax is such an ugly word. "Extortion" or "forced protective
contribution" are so much better.
|9.21.09 @ 11:58AM|#
we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens
for you anymore
I'm really sick of hearing about how because I might cost the
public some small amount (percentage of total cost wise), is an
excuse for the government to take away my choices, my freedoms, and
my money.
There are significantly better options for reducing the costs
involved with health care then mandating people to pay for
insurance. Just addressing the emergency room question, we could
try actually enforcing immigration laws. Or maybe we should just
send Mexico a bill.
Mango Punch|9.21.09 @ 11:59AM|#
"It's not a tax, it's extortion.
What's the difference?"
It's not a tax, its anal.
|9.21.09 @ 12:00PM|#
Holy fuck- the Suit just got a fucking raucous rock star welcome
at HVCC.
Shut the fuck up, Campaigner-in-Chief.
|9.21.09 @ 12:01PM|#
"we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for
you anymore"
But aren't people who don't have insurance going bankrupt and
facing poverty every day? If not having insurance is so horrible,
how is it getting other people to carry your burdens? Also, if not
having insurance is letting other people carry your burdens, they
why aren't illegal aliens being forced to buy insurance? Aren't
they uninsured and forcing their burdens on us?
Bill Clinton|9.21.09 @ 12:03PM|#
Tax is such an ugly word. "Extortion" or "forced protective
contribution" are so much better.
Thanks for your contribution.
mark|9.21.09 @ 12:03PM|#
we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens
for you anymore
Great! Where do I sign up for that?
|9.21.09 @ 12:03PM|#
Conveniently ignored by our president is the fact that those
without health insurance already pay an effective 2.9% of their
income for medicare. A healthy young couple without insurance at
the poverty line is already paying $422.53 annually
towards the nation's health care bill.
IOW, young folks with or without health insurance are paying to
help insure those over 65. Don't we all just love intergenerational
wealth transfers?
@|9.21.09 @ 12:05PM|#
"And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for
the emergency room care"
What's never, ever, ever challenged in that statement is the
premise that everyone is entitled to "free" emergency room care.
It's regarded as a given, a right, a thing never to be questioned.
It's the fundamental fallacy in this whole debate. When opponents
of Obama-Care accept from the start the moral code of altruism,
they are doomed. They've done half their opponents' work for them.
The only thing left are the details, the "It'll cost too much!"
copouts, and the eventual surrender.
|9.21.09 @ 12:12PM|#
@ - you're right, it's never challenged that people "deserve"
"free" emergency room care. And, they don't.
But, the reality is that most people are covered. From a strictly
economic standpoint it's probably worthwhile to treat people who
come into the emergency room assuming they can pay.
|9.21.09 @ 12:13PM|#
"Since we have inflated the cost of college, we will inflate
those costs some more."
What a fucking imbecile.
Zeb|9.21.09 @ 12:13PM|#
If we had more illegal immigrants working in emergency rooms, we could pay them next to nothing and save lots of money that way.
|9.21.09 @ 12:14PM|#
Now why couldn't someone in the audience have shouted "You
obfuscate!"
Wilson should've thought of that. More highbrow, more accurate...
would have made for more fun on the talk show junket.
Imagine the flurry of dictionary consulting *that* would have
stirred?
Will there ever be a day when I can hear POTUS on the radio without
feeling compelled to shout obscenities as I bash the Power button
to shut him up? How do people listen to this tripe and believe
it?!?
Abdul|9.21.09 @ 12:14PM|#
"George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's Dictionary,
the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're
stretching a little bit right now. . . ."
Yeah, only a racist would rely on the so-called "experts" down at
Merriam-Webster.
Tomcat1066|9.21.09 @ 12:17PM|#
"we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for
you anymore."
Awesome! Honestly, I'm 100% behind this!
So we need to repeal Medicare, medicaid, social security, welfare,
and all other entitlements that aren't self sufficient...right?
Zeb|9.21.09 @ 12:17PM|#
And there is no entitlement to "free" care at an emergency room.
They are obliged to treat you even if you don't have cash up front,
but they will do their damnedest to bill you. Perhaps they should
have the right to come break your kneecaps when you don't pay. But
that would be counterproductive since you would just head right
back to the ER.
But seriously, as much as I hate to see people forced to pay for
other people's problems, I do see some serious moral problems with
being able to refuse care at an ER. At least in cases that are
actual emergencies.
i am a racist|9.21.09 @ 12:20PM|#
Who's the black private dick
that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
(Barack!)
You're damn right
Who is the man
that would risk his neck for his brother man?
(Barack!)
Can ya dig it?
Who's the cat that won't cop out
when there's danger all about
(Barack!)
Right on
You see this cat Barack is a bad mother--
(Shut your mouth)
But I'm talkin' about Barack
(Then we can dig it)
He's a complicated man
but no one understands him but his woman
(Barack Obama)
Michael|9.21.09 @ 12:21PM|#
Talk about paternalism! Wow! The bitch doesn't even try to
hide it.
As much as what Obama says in this interview sucks barnacle
infested porpoise ass, it should be noted that the sentence you're
referring to is commentary on what he said and not part of the
actual statement (and should probably be in brackets or italicized
or something).
Rich|9.21.09 @ 12:21PM|#
you're right, it's never challenged that people "deserve"
"free" emergency room care.
Warty made me do it.
|9.21.09 @ 12:22PM|#
Listen, when someone doesn't pay their credit card off, my rates
go up as a result. If everyone always paid, the companies could
make the same money with drastically less interest.
Why shouldn't the government just pay off those unpaid credit card
balances and raise your taxes accordingly.
I mean, its high time we stop carrying the burden of these people,
right?
Or... how about instead of having 4 kids and living in a 3,200
square foot house, you have 1 or 2 kids, live in a 1,500 square
foot house and save some for, oh, I don't know, retirement and
health care.
Idiots.
|9.21.09 @ 12:27PM|#
It is also a concern that would need to be addressed that an
unconscious patient arriving at an Emergency could not provide
payment, or prove the ability to pay prior to receiving
services.
However, I don't think that people with situations that aren't
reasonably immediately life threatening, should be admitted to the
emergency room. Maybe hospitals should have 24hr urgent care type
of facilities. A place where people could be turned away for the
inability to pay. That way, emergency rooms would have someplace to
send people who don't meet the level of emergency required.
|9.21.09 @ 12:28PM|#
Uninsured guy gets hit by a bus: We pay.
Public-insured guy gets hit by a bus: We pay.
Where is the savings in this scenario? He's going to an ER on the
taxpayer dime either way.
Xeones|9.21.09 @ 12:30PM|#
You're a racist for pointing out that flaw in Big O's statement, Sweet'n'Low.
|9.21.09 @ 12:30PM|#
SugarFree | September 21, 2009, 12:28pm | #
Uninsured guy gets hit by a bus: We pay.
Public-insured guy gets hit by a bus: We pay.
--
Uninsured guy gets hit by a bus - bus company's insurer pays.
Public-insured guy gets hit by a bus: we pay.
FTFY.
@|9.21.09 @ 12:30PM|#
matth,
The deadly acceptance of the moral code that I'm my brother's
keeper--and he is mine--is what is driving all other nanny-state
grabs at person freedoms, such as anti-smoking ordinances, fat
taxes, sugar taxes, bike helmet laws, etc. "If you hurt yourself
and I have to pay for it..." the nanny-staters invariably begin
their argument. That's when the premise that I must pay for your
personal choices--and their consequences--must be challenged and
defeated on moral grounds. It has nothing to do with
economics. Most libertarians get it. But most people aren't
consistent libertarians, not even the loudest of the tea-party
protesters.
concerned|9.21.09 @ 12:32PM|#
What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other
people carrying your burdens for you anymore . . ."
So disabled parking will disappear? Other parts of the ADA are now
on the line as being too expensive?
Why does this sound more ominous than anything else out of the
president's mouth?
|9.21.09 @ 12:35PM|#
If you aren't being taxed to the point that The Chosen One deems appropriate, you're being carried. Basically, everything is His, and what you keep is a gift from Him.
T|9.21.09 @ 12:35PM|#
Uninsured guy gets hit by a bus - bus company's insurer
pays.
From anecdotes I have heard where I live, you get hit by a city bus
and good luck getting paid by anybody. Not happening. So I'm
willing to give SF's version some credit.
|9.21.09 @ 12:36PM|#
Big B,
I was assuming it was a public bus and they would claim sovereign
immunity.
Warty|9.21.09 @ 12:36PM|#
Looking up a word's definition means you lose the argument? Lonewacko should use that one.
|9.21.09 @ 12:37PM|#
Looking up a word's definition means you lose the
argument?
Dictionaries are racist, just like Newton's work was a rape manual
(an accusation I'm not making up).
Rich|9.21.09 @ 12:38PM|#
Why does this sound more ominous than anything else out of
the president's mouth?
Come on. A burdensome cigarette is much more ominous.
Warty|9.21.09 @ 12:39PM|#
like Newton's work was a rape manual (an accusation I'm not
making up).
details plz
|9.21.09 @ 12:43PM|#
To the poster "@": Please keep posting here. Your stuff is
lucid, pitch-perfect and dead-on.
This health-care debate, like so many others, mostly takes place on
top of the argument, rather than down in its core. As @ says, this
stuff has to be challenged at its premise level. Don't let anybody
take anything for granted, or you've basically handed them the
debate.
|9.21.09 @ 12:46PM|#
Isaac Newton's Principia Mathematica is a 'rape manual' because 'science is a male rape of female nature'.
Jason|9.21.09 @ 12:47PM|#
I know we've moved on since the house bill, but that piece of legislation enforced mandatory coverage by amending THE INTERNAL REVENUE CODE. How is that not a tax?
|9.21.09 @ 12:48PM|#
Libertrian eruption on Feministing quickly doused.
They always go directly to roads.
Warty|9.21.09 @ 12:48PM|#
One phenomenon feminist historians have focused on is the rape and torture metaphors in the writings of Sir Francis Bacon and others (e.g. Machiavelli) enthusiastic about the new scientific method. Traditional historians and philosophers have said that these metaphors are irrelevant to the real meanings and referents of scientific concepts held by those who used them and by the public for whom they wrote. But when it comes to regarding nature as a machine, they have quite a different analysis: here, we are told, the metaphor provides the interpretations of Newton's mathematical laws: it directs inquirers to fruitful ways to apply his theory and suggests the appropriate methods of inquiry and the kind of metaphyiscs the new theory supports. But if we are to believe that mechanistic metaphors were a fundamental component of the explanations the new science provided, why should we believe that the gender metaphors were not? A consistent analysis would lead to the conclusion that understanding nature as a woman indifferent to or even welcoming rape was equally fundamental to the interpretations of these new conceptions of nature and inquiry. Presumably these metaphors, too, had fruitful pragmatic, methodological, and metaphysical consequences for science. In that case, why is it not as illuminating and honest to refer to Newton's laws as "Newton's rape manual" as it is to call them "Newton's mechanics"?
Presumably, this dumb cunt is referring to Francis Bacon's quote
about "forcing nature to give up her secrets". This is why all
non-science graduate students should be given a daily whipping.
T|9.21.09 @ 12:49PM|#
This health-care debate, like so many others, mostly takes
place on top of the argument, rather than down in its core. As @
says, this stuff has to be challenged at its premise level. Don't
let anybody take anything for granted, or you've basically handed
them the debate.
I've been amusing myself by asking people if health care is a
public good (non-excludable and non-rivalrous). If it's not, why is
it the government's business to provide it? I also try to get
people to see the blindingly obvious fact that insurance != health
care.
|9.21.09 @ 12:53PM|#
Holy fuck- the Suit just got a fucking raucous rock star
welcome at HVCC.
Of course he did. It was invitation only. Not that it would have
mattered. Albany has it's fair share of mooching low-lifes.
|9.21.09 @ 12:54PM|#
matth, I don't think most of the tea partiers are actually libertarians. I don't think they are pretending to be.
|9.21.09 @ 12:59PM|#
They always go directly to roads.
Those long, winding, wide roads, snaking through the virgin
underbrush...
BTW, the self-hating pseudo-males that post there make me want to
fucking puke.
|9.21.09 @ 1:01PM|#
Just fucking do away with the mandate to treat anyone who shows
up in an emergency room. Any hospital that absolutely refuses to
treat dying people there will get slammed with awful media coverage
and quickly change their policy. But, forcing hospitals to treat
not-dying people leads to this shit of "you not having health
insurance is costing other people money".
Don't concede the socialists' altruistic agenda -- don't concede
that other people have the "right" to force doctors and hospitals
to treat them without compensation. Because that's part-time
slavery (or "serfdom" if you want to sugar-coat it.)
|9.21.09 @ 1:03PM|#
"George, the fact that you looked up in an ultra right-wing conservative dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that you're stretching a little bit right now."
|9.21.09 @ 1:05PM|#
And actually, he didn't look up the definition of "tax increase," he looked up the definition of "tax." There *is* a difference, Mr. President.
|9.21.09 @ 1:07PM|#
By the way, does anyone have the odds that Jimmy Carter will now speak out against the racism inherent in dictionary definitions?
Jim Treacher|9.21.09 @ 1:07PM|#
How in the hell is looking up a definiting in the fucking dictionary "stretching a little bit" in the least?
Because uncharacteristically, little George was resorting to facts
in the face of ideology. This must be belittled -- notice President
Obama's tolerant laugh at George's silly adherence to consensus
reality -- and denied.
|9.21.09 @ 1:10PM|#
Warty,
I propose a wimpiness scale based on Klein. As wimpy as Klein is 1.
Therefore Krugman would be about a .78, and Eric Alterman about
.94.
Gilbert Martin|9.21.09 @ 1:16PM|#
"What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other
people carrying your burdens for you anymore . . ."
It's good that George called him on it claiming it wasn't a tax
increase but it would have been even better if he had pointed out
the BS of Obama's "irresponsibilty" nonnsense by noting that what
Obama is really attempting to do is make all those folks subsidize
other people's healthcare instead of merely paying for their own by
preventing them from getting a catastrophic care type only policy
with premiums based on their own individual risk profile.
|9.21.09 @ 1:19PM|#
I don't think that people with situations that aren't
reasonably immediately life threatening, should be admitted to the
emergency room. Maybe hospitals should have 24hr urgent care type
of facilities. A place where people could be turned away for the
inability to pay. That way, emergency rooms would have someplace to
send people who don't meet the level of emergency
required.
It is grossly irrational to run not-really-emergency patients
through the emergency room, instead of shunting them into another
part of the system/facility. There *has* to be a reason hospitals
do this. I suspect it has to do with the huge disparity between
what it actually costs for emergency room treatment for somebody
with the sniffles, as opposed to what the hospital can "bill" even
if it is just an accounting loss, for income reporting
purposes.
I would be interested to hear somebody with actual experience
address this.
Warty|9.21.09 @ 1:23PM|#
Feministing has
the best links
Elan admits that even if the woman hadn't accused five men of
raping her, she still would have "cheapened herself" by having sex
with the men "willingly." Meanwhile, the four released men in the
case carry no such group-sex stigma when they pose triumphantly
outside the jailhouse doors. In case you're interested, it gets
worse.
|9.21.09 @ 1:23PM|#
To use the tired old "automotive" metaphor, if somebody brings his generic shitbox to your shop which specializes in major reconstructive restorations, and asks you to change his oil, you kick him out.
|9.21.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Elan admits that even if the woman hadn't accused five men
of raping her, she still would have "cheapened herself" by having
sex with the men "willingly."
Would it have helped if she thought of the Mother Country?
|9.21.09 @ 1:34PM|#
Off topic, but this is too precious:
On the BBC World Service: World Have Your Say program, find a bunch
of leftists sniping at each other about Obama and his (and the
Democrats') gutlessness about "change". They're yelling at each
other like they were on O'Reilly or something, making asses out of
themselves in front of the rest of the world.
The only thing they seem to agree on is that the significant
numbers of people who disagree with the President are "insane". At
that point, it turns into an echo chamber completely out of touch
with reality for about 15 seconds until one of them finds something
to blast one of the others about.
The moderator must be bewildered.
XM 131 if anyone wants to share in the fun.
WWJGD|9.21.09 @ 1:38PM|#
Something that's been bothering me.
If Health Care is a moral issue, and everyone must have it and we
should all pay for it...
Aren't Democrats forcing their morality onto others? That seems
like a very Republican thing to do.
|9.21.09 @ 1:40PM|#
When the president uses a word, it means exactly what he intends
it to mean. Nothing more and nothing less.
Props to GS for calling him on this shit.
George Stephanopoulos on the W|9.21.09 @ 1:49PM|#
Mr. Obama: "George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's
Dictionary, the definition of tax increase, indicates to me that
you're stretching a little bit right now. . . ."
I don't know what kind of Sophistry they teach you at Harvard, but
here in America, the proper usage of words is an essential part of
any healthy debate.
Mr. Obama: "My critics say everything is a tax increase. My
critics say that I'm taking over every sector of the economy.
"
You are denying it?
|9.21.09 @ 1:52PM|#
This clown's starting to sound like he believes his own
bullshit. If the IRS is going to force me to buy something that I
wasn't forced to buy last year, that's a tax increase. Denying it
is a baldfaced lie.
-jcr
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 1:56PM|#
Democrats force their morality on people all the time, just as much as Republicans, as far as I'm concerned, in even more insidious ways - because they often get a pass on moralizing and because what they are trying to control is much more encompassing than whether or not people are having anal sex.
|9.21.09 @ 2:01PM|#
Just fucking do away with the mandate to treat anyone who
shows up in an emergency room. Any hospital that absolutely refuses
to treat dying people there will get slammed with awful media
coverage and quickly change their policy. But, forcing hospitals to
treat not-dying people leads to this shit of "you not having health
insurance is costing other people money".
Don't concede the socialists' altruistic agenda -- don't concede
that other people have the "right" to force doctors and hospitals
to treat them without compensation. Because that's part-time
slavery (or "serfdom" if you want to sugar-coat it.)
No, continue to do treat without proof of payment, but don't let
pleading "poverty" get you off from paying the bill. Face it, as
soon as someone dies or is crippled from being denied care, the
nuclear option will be triggered hard and furiously by the lawyers
committee.
Getting "free" medical care after the fact should be as painful and
awkward as a dozen un-lubed and un-anesthetized colonoscopies. In a
row. Publicly.
Screw compassion for extremely poor choices in life. Those choices,
as long as you are a societal parasite, be flogged early and
flogged often.
Shill for Big Stigma.
|9.21.09 @ 2:01PM|#
George, the fact that you looked up Merriam's
Dictionary
Who you gonna believe? A neutral reference book, or Hopey McChange?
What are you, George? Some kind of objecivist? Turn in your
Democratic Apparatchiki Union card on your way out. I should have
known you weren't politically reliable when you jumped off Bill
Clinton's sinking ship!
-jcr
jtuf|9.21.09 @ 2:03PM|#
How about a deal? I'll buy health insurance if Obama buys one of my elephant insurance policies for $10,000. Think about it. Do we really want the leader of the free world unprotected from the risk of getting trampled by elephants?
|9.21.09 @ 2:03PM|#
XM 131 if anyone wants to share in the fun.
No thanks. Yelling at the tee-vee is bad enough.
|9.21.09 @ 2:06PM|#
Oh, and for the record: Obama lies.
I wonder when the citizens in the Nuclear Free™ People's Republic
of Takoma Park, Md will replace their very prominent and popular
BUSH LIED/BUSH LIES yard signs with OBAMA LIES yard signs?
|9.21.09 @ 2:14PM|#
So waitjustafuckingminutehere...
Obama takes a trip to Troy, NY, and instead of speaking at the one
actual, y'know, decent university in town, speaks to the Troylets
at Happy Valley Country Club?
WTF?
Was he afraid that the RPI students would ask him intelligent
questions that might challenge his ability to formulate a
response?
Just...wow.
torpid|9.21.09 @ 2:22PM|#
The whistle words "monkey", "negro", and "coon" are in Merriam-Webster's Dictionary. That's plenty of evidence for racism in my opinion.
T|9.21.09 @ 2:22PM|#
Was he afraid that the RPI students would ask him
intelligent questions that might challenge his ability to formulate
a response?
Dude, he's a freaking poli-sci major. He doesn't want to go talk to
engineers. They'll confuse him, with all the logic and stuff.
|9.21.09 @ 2:23PM|#
I wonder when the citizens in the Nuclear Free™ People's
Republic of Takoma Park, Md will replace their very prominent and
popular BUSH LIED/BUSH LIES yard signs with OBAMA LIES yard
signs?
Weather report from hell: Still pretty toasty around here...
-jcr
GILMORE|9.21.09 @ 2:48PM|#
as someone who has fondled statistics their whole career, I find obama's use of 'averages' (in this case, average increased 'cost' - read: money wasted in the already-screwed-up system - being 900 per fam) to be disingenuous to the extreme. Taken at his own word, what he's saying is that we're going to move losses down the foodchain. Or, just make taxpayers pay directly for the waste we previously charged indirectly for. Way to rationalize there buddy.
GILMORE|9.21.09 @ 2:51PM|#
by the way, did i miss something, or is lonewacko on
vacation?
Havent seen our poor retarded-dog mascot in so long. Is it for lack
of ImmigrationRelated kibbles?
Tomcat1066|9.21.09 @ 2:53PM|#
Shorter Obama: I'm not going to take money from you, I'm going to make you give it to me. Completely different.
Xeones|9.21.09 @ 2:55PM|#
They always go directly to roads.
Just shit in their Cheerios by pulling out the little ol' fact that
in the socialist single-payer paradise of Sweden, two thirds of the
roads are privately owned. In plenty of other enlightened Western
European social democracies, it's around half.
|9.21.09 @ 3:21PM|#
"It's not a tax" is just another version of "It all depends on what your definition of 'is' is. Two progressives cut from the same bolt of prevaricating cloth.
|9.21.09 @ 3:36PM|#
Not matter what you fucking call it if money leaves my pocket
and goes to the government or is indirectly spent someplace due to
government requiring I do so or face penalty it is a tax. You could
call it Rainbows and Unicorn puppy fund, if it goes to Government
it is a fucking tax.
This jackass could hide behind his rectoric during the election but
as it proves out that it is all he has it gets older and older. The
guy is a lying, deceiving SOB. I love when he is off the
teleprompter then you hear the real man.
IE Your a kid and it is for your own good, or the comparison of UPS
and FedEx to the Post Office as how government insurance will be
competative and a good thing. When he is off the teleprompter he is
still lying buy his analogies only serve to make the point of those
that do not agree with him. He makes our points for us but still
stands there smiling like he actually knows something.
Has anyone compiled a list of his promises versus what he has
actually done since elected? I would be very interested to see that
LONG LIST.
|9.21.09 @ 3:43PM|#
You could call it Rainbows and Unicorn puppy fund, if it
goes to Government it is a fucking tax.
Actually, it's not where it goes that makes it a tax, it's the fact
that it's a mandatory payment that's not to enforce some contract
that you entered into voluntarily that makes it a tax.
If the IRS forced you to write out a check to General Motors, it
would still be a tax.
-jcr
Paul|9.21.09 @ 3:52PM|#
I heard he's promising to raise the chocolate ration to 25
grams.
Double plus good!
Paul|9.21.09 @ 3:56PM|#
I'd like to report some fishy information the healthcare overhau-- erh, I mean reform.
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 4:18PM|#
So... Question: I cite references from the dictionary all the
time, on these boards even. Popular favorites of late include
"ration", "theft", "slavery", "taxation", and "rights".
Am I a racist?
Paul|9.21.09 @ 4:51PM|#
"ration", "theft", "slavery", "taxation", and
"rights".
Code words for racism. So, yeah, you're a kloset klansman.
Sean W. Malone|9.21.09 @ 5:03PM|#
I thought as much... Damn. What should I do? Anyone know where to find white hoods?
|9.21.09 @ 5:23PM|#
Presumably, this dumb cunt is referring to Francis Bacon's quote about "forcing nature to give up her secrets". This is why all non-science graduate students should be given a daily whipping.
Most liberal arts studies are utter bullshit anyway. It is one
thing to study them, but another to focus on it. What do history
and philosophy majors do after they finish compiling all their
worthless degrees? Get a job at a university. And the government
subsidizes the cycle.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 5:52PM|#
Anyone know where to find white hoods?
These guys probably still
have some lying around.
|9.21.09 @ 6:17PM|#
It's not a tax increase, taxes are constitutional and an increase would be too. To force a citizen to buy a service is a different issue and I question the constitutionality for forcing citizens to purchase services.
Paul|9.21.09 @ 6:57PM|#
I question the constitutionality for forcing citizens to
purchase services.
Like medicare and social security?
|9.21.09 @ 8:17PM|#
Like medicare and social security?
Since you asked, yes: those programs are unconstitutional, too. The
states could have those kinds of programs if they want, but it's
not a federal prerogative.
Of course, nobody put up much resistance to most of FDR's other
power-grabs, either.
-jcr
|9.21.09 @ 8:24PM|#
Early in August I was picked up by a couple of Minneapolis cops
for not being able to walk in a straight line. I told them I was
going to meet my ride but they said they didn't care. they told me
it'd be their responsibility if I got myself hurt, to which I
responded "No it wouldn't, it'd be min!" After a little while of
trying to reason with them it became apparent that they weren't
going to let me go, so I flew completely off the handle. Eventually
they took me down, put me in handcuffs, stuffed me into the back
seat of their cruiser, took me to a hospital, and dragged me to
detox (literally, as soon as they took me down I went completely
limp). As soon as they were gone I told the people at the hospital
what happenened, so they gave me a breathalyzer and determined I
wasn't drunk enough to be there. About two weeks later I received a
bill from the hospital for $233, for the breathalyzer test, then
about another two weeks later I got a bill for $670, for "receiving
emergency care."
I think I'm going to go ahead and let the liberal ass voters in the
twin cities pay for saving me from myself.
Sean W. Malone|9.22.09 @ 12:16PM|#
"Of course, nobody put up much resistance to most of FDR's
other power-grabs, either."
You know, that's not actually true JCR - we just don't hear about
it because the "victor" gets to write the history books. Hayek's
debates with Keynes and the entire classical liberal establishment
back in the 30s & 40s were intense.
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