Cheye Calvo Pens Op-Ed for the Washington Post

Radley Balko | September 20, 2009

Berwyn Heights, Maryland Mayor Cheye Calvo has an op-ed in the Washington Post about his experience trying to get some accountability for the violent, mistaken 2008 raid on his home.

Let me give you three specific concerns underscored by our case.

First, the Prince George's Police Department's internal affairs function is broken. When the Justice Department released the county police from federal supervision in February, internal affairs was the one area that was not cleared. Internal affairs division (IAD) investigations were required to take no longer than 90 days. More than a year after our ordeal, my family awaits the IAD report on what happened at our home. The statute of limitations for officer misconduct is 12 months, which means that any wrongdoers are off the hook.

Next, there is significant evidence that the county is broadly violating the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable search and seizure. After initially claiming that they had a "no-knock" warrant to forcibly enter our home, county police acknowledged that they did not have one. But they went on to contend that there is no such thing as a "no-knock" warrant in Maryland. But this isn't true. A statewide "no-knock" warrant statute was passed in 2005. Effectively, the county is denying the existence of state law. We can't get the county to say whether it has ever followed the law or, at a minimum, even acknowledges it.

Finally, and perhaps most disturbing of all, county police may be lying to cover up their civil rights violations. A county officer on the scene told Berwyn Heights police a fabricated tale to justify the warrantless entry into our home. The lie disappeared after police learned that I was the mayor. Charges of a police coverup are hardly unusual, but there is significant evidence that county law enforcement engaged in a conspiracy on our lawn to justify an illegal entry. Nothing strikes at the heart of police credibility like creative report writing and false testimony to cover up a lie or even put innocent people behind bars.

Calvo is really an impressive guy. I've never talked to him whether he'd ever consider running for higher office, but there'd be some poetic justice in seeing him become the next county executive for Prince George's County.

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Rich|9.20.09 @ 8:15AM|#

After initially claiming that they had a "no-knock" warrant to forcibly enter our home, county police acknowledged that they did not have one. But they went on to contend that there is no such thing as a "no-knock" warrant in Maryland. But this isn't true.

With all due respect, WTF?

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 8:24AM|#

Dude rocks. It's a bummer that this happened to him, but he's turning into a damn good spokesman on the issue.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 8:28AM|#

But a pattern and practice of police abuse treated with utter indifference rips at the fabric of our social compact and virtually guarantees more of the same.

Welcome to the real world. Glad to see an Upper Middle Class suburbanite realize that the police do more than "protect and serve".

Alice Bowie|9.20.09 @ 8:34AM|#

Ad it been anybody but the Mayor, these people would have been locked up, charged with drug trafficing, and their two dead Labs would have been spitted on by the chief.

If you ask me, the fact that the police did NOT charge him and his mother-in-law with drug trafficing and merely killed his pets (and not his children) makes me believe that these are LUCKY PEOPLE.

What pisses me off is that the MAYOR was NOT charged with a CRIME and had his HOME seized under the RICO act...like happens to so many innocent people that the POLICE blunder the drug raid...and just cover up.

!!! KEEP DOPE ALIVE !!!

Dear Cheye Calvo:

Welcome to America and its drug war. You are lucky to be alive, your family is lucky to be alive, and I'm very very sorry that they killed ur pets.

Be very very very happy that you are NOT subjected to loosing your entire life savings on LEGAL FEES...like so many people in YOUR EXACT situation end up doing.

Please, consider being an opponent to this ridiculous drug war. The drug wasn't even herion, Cocaine, PCP, MDMA. It was pot. A completely harmless plant.

|9.20.09 @ 8:35AM|#

(So far, at least,) For once, I didn't have to cringe when reading the comments on the article itself. Seems like people realize the dangers of all this. And, as a bonus, somebody linked to your Raidmap at the CATO site, Radley.

It's very sad to read this article, but at the same time, it's very helpful that it was written.

Joshua|9.20.09 @ 9:09AM|#

I hope Calvo gets somewhere with this, but it's disgusting to me to hear the same complaints that Radly, myself, and many others have been making, suddenly becoming meaningful because THIS TIME the cops terrorized a white, affluent, politically connected individual. I read Calvo's op-ed, and I just wanted to say, "Listen, you son of a bitch, before it happened to you, you were oblivious, but it was happening for years to other people. Now that your eyes are open, it's nice to have you on board, but don't act all surprised. Trigger happy cops? Falsifying reports? Stonewalling the investigation? It's par for the course."

I'm just outraged at the way our system seems to work. Apparently, it's not self-evident that police kicking in the doors of people, guns (nearly) blazing, is a bad thing. It only becomes evident when it gets SO BAD that they accidentally do it to the mayor. If Cheye Calvo's dogs are what gets change started, what does that say about the value we collectively place on the life of someone like Kathryn Johnston?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 9:21AM|#

Off Topic: You can legally carry guns on the Virginia Rail Express now, as long as you don't go into DC.

hmm|9.20.09 @ 9:21AM|#

It's a long road with a population with a short attention span. I too hope he gets somewhere with his efforts.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 9:24AM|#

I don't know what Mayor Cheye Calvo's views on other issues but If I don't radically disagree with him on a lot of other things I would be willing to vote for him for POTUS. We need someone who has expereienced the nasty end of the power of the state in the White House. Someone who can actually empathize with the victims of state power.

Radley Balko|9.20.09 @ 9:26AM|#

Some of you are being way too hard on Calvo. He has recognized on numerous occasions that the only reason his case attracted so much attention was his status and influence, and he's said several times that he understands most people on the receiving end of these mistakes don't have the platform he does.

If you want to reform these tactics, you now have an articulate, passionate ally. It doesn't serve your cause to kick him around because he hasn't seen the light all along.

Plant Immigration RIghts Suppo|9.20.09 @ 9:30AM|#

"It doesn't serve your cause to kick him around because he hasn't seen the light all along."

I agree. It is more important what someone's views are now than what their views were a year ago. We are all shaped by personal experiences. This man, who just happens to be a mayor, had a personal experience that helped to shape his personal views.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 9:41AM|#

...most people on the receiving end of these mistakes...

Fuck that. There shouldn't be any of these mistakes, because this shouldn't be happening in the first place, even for "legitimate" drug raids.

DON'T STEP ON THE GRASS, SAM

From the 1968 release "The Second"
Steppenwolf Cover

Words and music by John Kay

Starin' at the boob tube, turnin' on the big knob
Tryin' to find some life in the waste land
Fin'ly found a program, gonna deal with Mary Jane
Ready for a trip into hate land
Obnoxious Joe comes on the screen
Along with his guest self-righteous Sam
And one more guy who doesn't count
His hair and clothes are too far out

While pushin' back his glasses Sam is sayin' casually
"I was elected by the masses"
And with that in mind he starts to unwind
A vicious attack on the finest of grasses

Well it's evil, wicked, mean and nasty
(Don't step on the grass, Sam)
And it will ruin our fair country
(Don't be such an ass, Sam)
Well, it will hook your Sue and Johnny
(You're so full of bull, Sam)
All will pay that disagree with me
(Please give up you already lost the fight, alright)

Misinformation Sam and Joe
Are feeding to the nation
But the one who didn't count counted them out
By exposing all their false quotations
Faced by a very awkward situation
This is all he'd say to save the day

Well it's evil, wicked, mean and nasty
(Don't step on the grass, Sam)
And it will ruin our fair country
(Don't be such an ass, Sam)
Well, it will hook your Sue and Johnny
(You're so full of bull, Sam)
All will pay that disagree with me
(Please give up you already lost the fight alright)

You waste my coin Sam, all you can
To jail my fellow man
For smoking all the noble weed
You need much more than him
You've been telling lies so long
Some believe they're true
So they close their eyes to things
You have no right to do
Just as soon as you are gone
Hope will start to climb
Please don't stay around too long
You're wasting precious time

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 10:01AM|#

We need someone who has expereienced the nasty end of the power of the state in the White House. Someone who can actually empathize with the victims of state power.

Word, +1.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 10:06AM|#

Let me make my point perfectly clear. There are legitimate reasons for SWAT to employ these tactics. And all Calvo is trying to do is hold them responsible for a "mistake". Fine. The problem I have, is that these tactics should be used in The War on Drugs. There should be no War on Drugs. If there wasn't a War on Drugs, these mistakes would be few and far between. If there wasn't a War on Drugs, organized crime would lose a significant part of their income, and thus, society would lose a significant part of organized crime.

This is all just pretty window dressing. Do you really think Calvo supports an end to The War on Drugs?

My opinion:

Legalize marijuana.
Eliminate all Schedule I and II drug classifications.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 10:08AM|#

is that these tactics should be used in The War on Drugs

please insert the word not

Suki|9.20.09 @ 10:09AM|#

We need someone who has expereienced the nasty end of the power of the state in the White House. Someone who can actually empathize with the victims of state power.

But we do now. Michelle told me to tell you.

Copy Editor|9.20.09 @ 10:13AM|#

Berwyn Heights, Maryland Mayor Cheye Calvo ...

What's a Maryland Mayor?

droits de l\'usine de supporte|9.20.09 @ 10:22AM|#

"But we do now. Michelle told me to tell you."

Mais, bien sûr. Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

|9.20.09 @ 10:25AM|#

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has the authority to investigate local corruption, right?
Are they involved in this case?

If not, why not?

G. Gordon Liddy|9.20.09 @ 10:27AM|#

"The Federal Bureau of Investigation has the authority to investigate local corruption, right?
Are they involved in this case?"

They have not only the authority but the duty to investigate local corruption.

The I I I I I |9.20.09 @ 10:46AM|#

It doesn't serve your cause to kick him around because he hasn't seen the light all along.

Yeah, but rational debate is hard.
Snark and resignation is so much easier.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 10:52AM|#

Mais, bien sûr. Qu'ils mangent de la brioche.

Würste und Sauerkraut überlegen sind.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 10:58AM|#

Würste und Sauerkraut überlegen sind.

Io preferisco melanzane parmigiano.

Tricky Prickears|9.20.09 @ 11:02AM|#

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has the authority to investigate local corruption, right?
Are they involved in this case?

If not, why not?

Law enforcement investigating law enforcement? How about a Citizen's Review Board?

http://www.citizenreviewboard.com/

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:03AM|#

Io preferisco melanzane parmigiano.

Bovine*, in qualsiasi forma o sotto forma di moda.

*Of the milk-fed veal variety.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:05AM|#

私はお寿司お楽しみください。調整私のお気に入りです。

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:05AM|#

How about a Citizen's Review Board?

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn covered that topic in his Gulag book. First chapter IIRC.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:08AM|#

私はお寿司お楽しみください。調整私のお気に入りです。

.מרק עוף עם מצה

|9.20.09 @ 11:08AM|#

私はお寿司お楽しみください。調整私のお気に入りです。

NOW CUT THAT OUT!

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:08AM|#

Was my grammer correct in Japanese? I ran it back and the result was "Please enjoy my sushi. Adjusted my favorite." I meant to say. "I enjoy Sushi. Tuna is my favorite."

植物の移民の権利サポーター|9.20.09 @ 11:11AM|#

".מרק עוף עם מצה"

I love chicken soup with matzo! That is my favorite!

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:13AM|#

Was my grammer correct in Japanese?

How should I know?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:14AM|#

البعض يفضل دماء اليهود ، ولكن يبقى الموساد في الحصول على الطريق

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:16AM|#

The Google did not do much better for my Arabic than it did for your Japanese, plant dude.

植物の移民の権利サポーター|9.20.09 @ 11:17AM|#

"How should I know?"

Prosiłem nikogo.

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 11:17AM|#

English subtitles, people. Ya'll're worse than raivo pommer.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:19AM|#

I think Google Translate has not yet perfected languages that do not use a Latin-based alphabet.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:20AM|#

"English subtitles, people. Ya'll're worse than raivo pommer."

I was thinking more along the lines of James Joyce's Finnians Wake.

robc|9.20.09 @ 11:26AM|#

Glad to see an Upper Middle Class suburbanite

While I dont know for sure, I think you are descibing the majority of this board. So, WTF?

|9.20.09 @ 11:29AM|#

Okay, if that's how you want it:

based lump suppression best

Planta d\'Immigració Drets Sup|9.20.09 @ 11:34AM|#

P Brooks,

Your link just gave me a web page that said "General network error (0x80004005)"

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:38AM|#

"While I dont know for sure, I think you are descibing the majority of this board. So, WTF?"

You must admit the War on Drugs disproportionately impacts poor people. You would admit that would you not?

|9.20.09 @ 11:38AM|#

Your link just gave me a web page that said "General network error (0x80004005)"

How odd.

|9.20.09 @ 11:40AM|#

Oh wow, major cool dude!

RT
www.real-privacy.net.tc

|9.20.09 @ 11:42AM|#

Speaking of random phrase generators...

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:42AM|#

Here we go with the privacy spammer again.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:45AM|#

If you are comparing Finnians Wake to random phrases I do not think that is fair. I was refering to Joyce's enjoyment of mixing langauges. Finnians Wake is a strange novel indeed but "random" it is not. Free flowing consciousness is not the same as randomness.

robc|9.20.09 @ 11:45AM|#

You must admit the War on Drugs disproportionately impacts poor people.

I mustnt do anything.

You would admit that would you not?

Sure, seems reasonable. But what does that have to do with Tricky Prickears point?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#

植物の移民の権利サポーター
(Plant Immigration Rights Supporter)

Prosiłem nikogo.
(I asked one.)

Oh, xin lỗi, tôi nghĩ bạn đã nói với tôi.

(Oh, thought you were speaking to me.)

(오, 미안 해요, 당신이 내게 말하는 줄 알았는데.)
(โธ่เสียใจคิดว่าคุณพูดถึงฉัน.)

robc|9.20.09 @ 11:46AM|#

Free flowing consciousness is not the same as randomness.

Depends which part of the brain you are pulling the free flowing consciousness from. If you are pulling from /dev/random, for example....

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:50AM|#

robc,

I don't have enough entropy for random. I can only be pseudo random.

Planta de Inmigración Derechos|9.20.09 @ 11:50AM|#

Suki,

Hakuna tatizo, najua nini unaweza kuwa na wazo hilo.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 11:52AM|#

"Sure, seems reasonable. But what does that have to do with Tricky Prickears point?"

I did not realize that he actually had a point.

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#

I don't have enough entropy for random. I can only be pseudo random.

Capital! Simply capital!

robc|9.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#

I did not realize that he actually had a point.

Hence my WTF?

|9.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#

Finnians Wake

Is he dead, too?

Capital! Simply capital!

The staight man never gets any credit.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 11:55AM|#

Hakuna tatizo, najua nini unaweza kuwa na wazo hilo.

(No problem, I know that you may have thought that.)

Goed, dankie.

(Okay, thank you.)

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:01PM|#

robc,

I do not believe that the human brain can be truly random in a free flow consciousness state such as the type some authors or artists use. An artist may not be aware of the reasons their brain tells them to write something or paint something but their brain has a damned good reason for it. Computer generation, in any case, is not the same as human thought. It will not be at any point in the foreseeable future. Not until we reach a "Lieutenant Commander Data" level of artificial intelligence.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 12:03PM|#

Fuck. It's like I just wandered into a goddamn Olivier Assayas film.

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:09PM|#

Computer generation, in any case, is not the same as human thought.

Turing (and others) disagree with you.

I think the mechanists are wrong too, but maybe that is just what the calculations in my head tell me to think.

droits de l\'usine de supporte|9.20.09 @ 12:09PM|#

I have never seen an Olivier Assayas film. Are they good?

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:10PM|#

Okay, the rest of your post after the quote seems to actually agree with Turing et al. To them the brain is a very advanced computer, I wasnt comparing to modern (I bet Data has a /dev/random).

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 12:13PM|#

I think the mechanists are wrong too, but maybe that is just what the calculations in my head tell me to think.

Hofstadteresque. Very nice.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:14PM|#

"Turing (and others) disagree with you."

The Turing test does not account for things like emotional response. Artwork such as novels are intended to create an emotional response of one kind or another. This is not the same as playing a game of chess.

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:17PM|#

Im not talking about the Turing test.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:19PM|#

"I bet Data has a /dev/random"

A recurring theme throughout the series was Data's desire to be more human-like. This is brilliantly displayed in the episode "The Measure of a Man" in which there is a trial to determine if Data qualifies as "alive" in a meaningful way. I think he would. It is far more than a /dev/random.

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:21PM|#

Turing and other mechanists think that emotional responses are as calculable as any other brain response.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:21PM|#

I do not believe that the human brain can be truly random in a free flow consciousness state such as the type some authors or artists use. An artist may not be aware of the reasons their brain tells them to write something or paint something but their brain has a damned good reason for it. Computer generation, in any case, is not the same as human thought. It will not be at any point in the foreseeable future. Not until we reach a "Lieutenant Commander Data" level of artificial intelligence.

John Tagliaferro has been having issues with this topic. His writings are fiction, so are his characters, but so many people bug him with "so, Suki is a real person". The Suki in the book is not that much like me, but some things and I make up fun stuff for her to be into. Same with the John character. BTW, my handle here is Suki, my real name is not (first name is bland and western). For the record, I have never been drugged and raped by lesbians and forced to marry one of them so she can steal all of my stuff through a divorce, nor have I worked in a baby farm. John made most of that up. It is funny when people seriously ask if those things really happened.

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:23PM|#

Ummm...there was much more to Data than JUST a /dev/random.

Jeez, is this that fucking hard to understand. /dev/random would just be one small part of his (or our) brains, just like it is a small part of current OSes.

But, he would have one. Suki understood the point that you seemed to be missing.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:25PM|#

A recurring theme throughout the series was Data's desire to be more human-like. This is brilliantly displayed in the episode "The Measure of a Man" in which there is a trial to determine if Data qualifies as "alive" in a meaningful way. I think he would. It is far more than a /dev/random.

I am trying to think of living beings that have on/off switches, like Data had. Hum, JT gave the Suki character a hypnotic trigger that puts her to sleep when the back of her neck is rubbed just right and the right words are spoken. Looks like I missed another veiled Star Trek reference.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:25PM|#

Suki,

Many authors base characters upon real people. Stephen King was a school teacher before he became a horror writer. Many of the children in his novels are inspired by students he once taught.

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 12:28PM|#

Probably, but I'd guess emotional responses are only as predictabe as the weather. It has to be somewhat stochastic.

Suki,

It's only so long before the real you is supplanted by the roman a clef version. :p

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:29PM|#

PIRS,

Many authors base characters upon real people.

I understand that it happens, but he sounded like he was taking great pains at not doing that. Even with scenes that were based on our roleplay in the past were just loosely based on it, not quotes of it.

He did have some creepy chick study the first book and try to emulate Suki. Made for some funny stories, until she kept "reminding" him she was around after he stopped seeing her.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:30PM|#

APOG,

LOL, but I am not exactly sure what you mean.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:32PM|#

"Suki understood the point that you seemed to be missing."

What point exactly do you seem to think I am missing? Yes, he would have a /dev/random just as D&D players have a set of dice. But the dice is not the most important part of the game. The dice merely exist to imitate the randomness of life. It is what you do with the roll that you are dealt that is important.

robc|9.20.09 @ 12:36PM|#

Plant,

My point, originally, was that if humans have a /dev/random then they cant generate truly random stream of consciousness.

Thats it, my only point.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:37PM|#

PIRS,

I think you meant "role" in that last sentence ;)

BoscoH|9.20.09 @ 12:37PM|#

OK, here's my song contribution, courtesy of the J. Giles Band...

You get a package
Dropped at your door
Cops come busting in
Put you on the floor.
They shoot your dogs
As they run away
If they can't arrest your ass
That's how they'll make you pay.
If you weren't the mayor
Nobody would care
One thing for sure

(Cops stink)
Cops stink yeah yeah
(Cops stink)
Cops stink yeah yeah
(Cops stink)
Cops stink yeah yeah
(Cops stink)
Cops stink yeah yeah

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 12:40PM|#

LOL, but I am not exactly sure what you mean.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:41PM|#

My /dev/pseudorandom only generates Roman numerals.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:44PM|#

Well, I was joking but I was implying a psychological thriller-type situation where you get amnesia and all you can remember about "yourself" are the fictional aspects of the novel and you begin living life as a fictional character that you co-created.

DAYUM! Suki III, the character loses six months of memory and the people around her need to be very careful not to give her false memories as she recovers. They also don't want her to revert to the way she was before all of her therapy. Is that the same general idea or am I reaching?

Liberty Gal|9.20.09 @ 12:48PM|#

The real drug issue is more complicated than the surface problem of SWAT teams related to the government's failed-for-decades War on Drug program. If it weren't for the CIA still illegally running drugs to finance whatever... Iran-Contra, recent Peruvian stink, etc., there would not be a War on Drugs. The CIA needs the price of drugs to stay high, which is only attainable in a black market situation where they are illegal.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 12:50PM|#

I have never seen an Olivier Assayas film. Are they good?

Depends on your tastes. He has a habit of having several languages spoken in his films and subtitling none of it (hence my comment). I have seen Demonlover, and Boarding Gate; I found them to be generally entertaining, if a bit frustrating. If you're overused to Hollywood conventions, you'll either find them narratively very fresh or absolutely irritating.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:50PM|#

"I think you meant "role" in that last sentence ;)"

Yes ;) That would make more sense.

Art-P.O.G.|9.20.09 @ 12:51PM|#

No, that's the same general idea. Since parts of the Suki anthology are culled from real life, I just assumed all that really happened. :P

Suki|9.20.09 @ 12:53PM|#

Since parts of the Suki anthology are culled from real life, I just assumed all that really happened. :P

Brat. LOL ;)

The character is Robotics and Bionics, I am Chemistry (and not as hot as the character).

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 12:54PM|#

Elemenope,

I generally dislike films with Hollywood conventions. I will give them a whirl in the DVD player.

Thanks.

|9.20.09 @ 1:06PM|#

Why are you talking about Data? Lore was the MAN.

Attorney|9.20.09 @ 1:08PM|#

In other news, the Speechmaker-in-Chief had an interview this morning on ABC. Says the WSJ:

The interview was part of an unusual assault on the airwaves Sunday morning, a five-network blitz aimed at buoying public sentiment on health care. In addition to ABC, Mr. Obama sat down with NBC's "Meet the Press," CBS' "Face the Nation," CNN's "State of the Union" and Spanish-language Univision's "Al Punto."

IOW, we'll keep repeating our message until it becomes the truth.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 1:10PM|#

I generally dislike films with Hollywood conventions.

I like movies with North Hollywood conventions :)

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 1:12PM|#

Glad I could help.
--------------

Why are you talking about Data? Lore was the MAN.

Lore was A PUTZ.

BakedPenguin|9.20.09 @ 1:12PM|#

Anyway, back to Tricky's point - he may or may not be fully against the WoD, but by bringing these sort of police tactics (and lack of accountability for these tactics) to light, he does generate an implicit antagonism for the WoD.

If Calvo's only with us as far as restoring the 4th amendment, than maybe we should accept that for now. Given his experiences, I'd say it's reasonable that he could be expected to eventually develop an antagonism towards the WoD.

BakedPenguin|9.20.09 @ 1:14PM|#

If it weren't for Lore and Q, TNG would have really, really, sucked. Watching some reruns about a month ago, I couldn't believe that I had liked the show.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 1:20PM|#

"Why are you talking about Data? Lore was the MAN."

Lore is another interesting take on the issue. Can a machine be evil? Well, if you believe "humans are evil" and politicians are human the answer is yes. But what is it that separates a natural born human from a manmade machine such as Lore? One is planned and the other is not? We create order but nature does not. I can see this leading to a debate between creationists and supporters of the theory of evoltion. Perhaps I am rambling to much so I leave it at this . . . .

Suki|9.20.09 @ 1:21PM|#

Watching some reruns about a month ago, I couldn't believe that I had liked the show.

The real BP has been supplanted by the roman a clef version!

Suki|9.20.09 @ 1:22PM|#

Can a machine be evil?

Yes. I have had a few dishwashers that met this description.

hmm|9.20.09 @ 1:24PM|#

I know Finnegan had a wake after falling off a ladder and later awoke due to alcohol accidentally flowing down his throat caused by a shillelagh beat down occurring. Who the hell is Finnian and what killed him. And why do I care about his wake?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 1:24PM|#

BakedPenguin,

I thought the writing was brilliant in most of the episodes. Downright Shakespearean in quality for some. And yes, Q and Lore provided a kind of deus ex machina for some of them without which some of the plots would not have been posible.

hmm|9.20.09 @ 1:25PM|#

Joyce just rolled over in his grave.

Paul|9.20.09 @ 1:28PM|#

Calvo needs to remain on this issue, and legally shake this lousy excuse for a police department until their fillings fall out.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 1:28PM|#

"Joyce just rolled over in his grave."

Someone should write a biography of him using free conciousness writing in multiple langauges. It should be called Joyces Wake.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 1:33PM|#

Yes. I have had a few dishwashers that met this description.

For me the primary evidence is the existence of (clearly malevolent) printers.
---------------

Q was the gift that kept on giving.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 1:40PM|#

Joyce just rolled over in his grave.

He rolled a nine on the twelve-sided die.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 1:43PM|#

"For me the primary evidence is the existence of (clearly malevolent) printers."

There are times I want to do to my printer at work what they did to the printer in Office Space. This is because my benevolent employer gave me an hp deskjet 5150.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 1:44PM|#

"He rolled a nine on the twelve-sided die."

Brilliant. Are you a writer of your own?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 2:05PM|#

Brilliant. Are you a writer of your own?

[Lacht] Nein, überhaupt nicht. Korrektur Pfund seit Februar hätte auf mich abgefärbt ein wenig.

([Laughing] No, not at all. Proofreading books since February might have rubbed off on me a little.)

|9.20.09 @ 2:10PM|#

""""After initially claiming that they had a "no-knock" warrant to forcibly enter our home, county police acknowledged that they did not have one. But they went on to contend that there is no such thing as a "no-knock" warrant in Maryland. But this isn't true. A statewide "no-knock" warrant statute was passed in 2005. Effectively, the county is denying the existence of state law."""

Where's the GOP outrage?

They think ACORN is a criminal empire worthy of non-stop talk.

Oh wait, it's agents of the government lying and causing people harm so it must be ok.

|9.20.09 @ 2:12PM|#

If you want to reform these tactics, you now have an articulate, passionate ally. It doesn't serve your cause to kick him around because he hasn't seen the light all along.

QFT! It's not as if the outrages and injustices of the War on ~~Druds~~ Liberty have gotten the press coverage that Britney Spears' crotch has recieved.

Did you write a well composed civil letter to the editors of your local paper berating them for not covering Kathryn Johnston's murder in it's entirety?

Because if you don't live in Atlanta, they didn't.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 2:15PM|#

Where's the GOP outrage?

On a GOP board? They are on a different intertube.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:16PM|#

TrickyVic,

Are you implying that you think members of ACORN are not agents of the government? For the record I think that both this police department and ACORN should be investigated with a fine tooth comb.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 2:21PM|#

PIRS,

Obama wants me to tell you to stop talking about ACORN.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:25PM|#

I love H&R threads. We have gone over the drug war, the meaning of consciousness, James Joyce, Star Trek the Next Generation, John Tagliaferro novels and now ACORN.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:28PM|#

TrickyVic brought the subject up.

Speaking of ACORN have any of the five interviews our our Dear Leader aired yet? Has anyone had the privilege of viewing his glorious message to the world on any of these programs today?

hmm|9.20.09 @ 2:31PM|#

Nest up?

Pie.

Cause I like pie.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:32PM|#

Suki,

Are you a proofreader by profession?

|9.20.09 @ 2:33PM|#

"""Are you implying that you think members of ACORN are not agents of the government? """

They are not. They are non-profit employees of a crappy community organization.

You really don't think that ACORN has arresting authority do you?

|9.20.09 @ 2:34PM|#

Make that Employees of a crappy non-profit community organization.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:34PM|#

I forgot to mention that H&R threads also sometimes have koans like the one hmm just gave us. And song lyrics too. I love H&R threads!

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:37PM|#

"They are non-profit employees of a crappy community organization."

That also happen to have the ear of the POTUS and immense influence over his decisions.

"You really don't think that ACORN has arresting authority do you?"

No, just the ability to beat up dissenters or people who publish tamizdat literature.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 2:39PM|#

That also happen to have the ear of the POTUS and immense influence over his decisions.

ROFL. "Immense influence"...evidence?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:40PM|#

or perhaps I should have said samizdat. I sometimes get those two terms mixed up.

|9.20.09 @ 2:41PM|#

"""That also happen to have the ear of the POTUS and immense influence over his decisions."""

If Bush was the POTUS in question. Your position would be classic libtard.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:44PM|#

"ROFL. "Immense influence"...evidence?"

Obama's own words. He said that he would consult them on many, many, many issues. You are not calling Obama a liar are you? Because that would make you a racist if you did. I will see if I can find the video but I saw it during the campain. I will report back when I find it.

|9.20.09 @ 2:46PM|#

Pie sucks.
Cookies with fruit are cool though.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 2:47PM|#

He consults lots of folks (I would fucking hope). It does not mean they have "immense influence" over him, or indeed *any* influence. He consults with Gates about defense issues, that doesn't make him in the back pocket of defense-hawk republicans, does it?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:49PM|#

TrickyVic,

I am not a Bush fan. You won't find many Bush fans on this board. Are you saying there were not organizations and or companies that had influence over President Bush?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:50PM|#

"He consults with Gates about defense issues, that doesn't make him in the back pocket of defense-hawk republicans, does it?"

When did we pull out of Iraq or Afganistan? I apparently didn't watch the news that day.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:51PM|#

"He consults lots of folks (I would fucking hope)."

How would you react to a POTUS who consulted with MS13?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 2:55PM|#

Are you a proofreader by profession?

No, just being a good pal and I kinda get a thrill out of helping out in that way. I work in a Chemistry Lab.

Michael Ejercito|9.20.09 @ 2:57PM|#

I read somewhere that injustice creates terrorism.

Should not these actions by the police create terrorists?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 2:58PM|#

"No, just being a good pal and I kinda get a thrill out of helping out in that way. I work in a Chemistry Lab."

Cool. I have great respect for chemists. I was never good in the subject myself but I loved it.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 3:03PM|#

I read somewhere that injustice creates terrorism.

Should not these actions by the police create terrorists?

You probably heard it from a PoliSci major inventing excuses for the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah . . .

Data|9.20.09 @ 3:04PM|#

An artist may not be aware of the reasons their brain tells them to write something or paint something but their brain has a damned good reason for it.

Yes, I get the yolk.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 3:05PM|#

Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between ACORN and a fucking gang?

This sort of bullshit, right here, is why I ceased taking anything the right-wing says seriously when it comes to scandal.

|9.20.09 @ 3:15PM|#

Pie sucks.

Outrageous!

Obama wants me to avenge this insidious anti-American calumny.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 3:18PM|#

How would you react to a POTUS who consulted with MS13?

Elemenope is right. They are more like the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah . . .

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 3:19PM|#

"Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between ACORN and a fucking gang?"

Yes, they are. Have you actually seen the videos? Have you seen the videos of ACORN / SEIU people beating up people who were selling samizdat items? They are a gang. They are just a gang that recieves (or recieved until a few days ago) government funding.

"This sort of bullshit, right here, is why I ceased taking anything the right-wing says seriously when it comes to scandal."

In case you are wondering, I am not right-wing. I am north-wing. The political map is not a straight line.

|9.20.09 @ 3:20PM|#

Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between ACORN and a fucking gang?

Clearly inappropriate; gangs are self-supporting.

Michael Ejercito|9.20.09 @ 3:20PM|#

You probably heard it from a PoliSci major inventing excuses for the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah...

So why no bombings of police cars and police stations in America, if those PoliSci majors are correct?

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 3:21PM|#

"Elemenope is right. They are more like the PLO, Hamas, Hezbollah . . ."

Good point. They recieve government funding too.

Bill Ayers|9.20.09 @ 3:23PM|#

"So why no bombings of police cars and police stations in America, if those PoliSci majors are correct?"

I agree

Janeane Garofalo |9.20.09 @ 3:23PM|#

Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between ACORN and a fucking gang?

That's racist, straight up.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 3:26PM|#

In case you are wondering, I am not right-wing. I am north-wing. The political map is not a straight line.

When you advance the right-wing's scandal bullshit, you might as well be wearing a shirt saying "I'm with stupid". I could care less what *your* politics are, but when you start with this "ACORN is a vast evil conspiracy" crap, I'll take you exactly as seriously as the people who started it.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 3:31PM|#

"When you advance the right-wing's scandal bullshit"

Again, have you seen the videos? There have been five of them made from five separate ACORN offices. Until you watch them don't call it bullshit. It is not.

Let me ask you a question to which I hope the answer is "no." Do you think it is moral to push 13 year old girls into prostitution. If you are wondering why I am asking this question that tells me you have not seen any of the videos.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 3:38PM|#

Bill Ayers,

How's Bernadine doing? Been to any good ROTC building burnings lately?

Obama wants me to say hello.

|9.20.09 @ 3:40PM|#

"""
I am not a Bush fan. You won't find many Bush fans on this board. Are you saying there were not organizations and or companies that had influence over President Bush?"""

Sure there were, it's that way for every President. I don't think they have as much influence as the opposite team hypes. I think it's being over hyped for political points against the President.

I bet you could run video stings like that at most grassroots community organizations. Considering recidivism rates, organizations with parolee release support seem particularly vulnerable.

Didn't mean to threadjack. My first post was a sarcastic shot at the fucked up priorities about what causes harm to society from those complaining about ACORN.

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.20.09 @ 3:45PM|#

"I don't think they have as much influence as the opposite team hypes."

They are not opposite teams, not if you mean Republicans and Democrats. They apear to have family squables so that most people think that they are.

"I bet you could run video stings like that at most grassroots community organizations. Considering recidivism rates, organizations with parolee release support seem particularly vulnerable."

Then our country has a worse problem than I ever dreamed. They need to be investigated with a fine tooth comb!

wayne|9.20.09 @ 3:47PM|#

End the idiotic drug war.

End the forfeiture laws.

|9.20.09 @ 3:51PM|#

"""Then our country has a worse problem than I ever dreamed. They need to be investigated with a fine tooth comb!"""

Americans commit crimes, America must be investigated. Send in the SWAT teams!!!

|9.20.09 @ 3:55PM|#

"""They are not opposite teams, not if you mean Republicans and Democrats. They apear to have family squables so that most people think that they are."""

I seem them as opposite sides of the same coin. They use the us vs. them too much to claim teams don't exist. But I think we are on the same page?

|9.20.09 @ 4:17PM|#

Lore was A PUTZ.

YOU ARE A PUTZ. SO THERE.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 4:19PM|#

Americans commit crimes, America must be investigated. Send in the SWAT teams!!!

And thus began the Radley Balko Full Employment Project.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 4:25PM|#

You showed me, Epi. I am chastened.

|9.20.09 @ 4:49PM|#

Yeah, you better run!

Suki|9.20.09 @ 4:59PM|#

So, Epi has the chastity keys for both Elemenope and SugarFree? Please, keep the URL for the videos to yourself :)

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 5:16PM|#

Wait. On second thought, FUCK Lore and his positronic bullshit.

Yeah, I went there.

|9.20.09 @ 5:25PM|#

There may be a one-year statute of limitations for police misconduct, but what's the limit for a violent home invasion? If the cops weren't serving a valid warrant, they're just perps.

-jcr

|9.20.09 @ 5:26PM|#

You really don't think that ACORN has arresting authority do you?

Everyone has the authority to make a citizen's arrest.

-jcr

robc|9.20.09 @ 5:41PM|#

There are times I want to do to my printer at work what they did to the printer in Office Space.

Did it. It was a fax/copy/printer, but still. The sledgehammer hitting that was such a cathartic thrill.

robc|9.20.09 @ 5:43PM|#

Are you seriously drawing an equivalency between ACORN and a fucking gang?

Both back prostitution.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 5:44PM|#

Do you guys save all your dynamite for fishing or something?

:)

EJM|9.20.09 @ 5:52PM|#

Everyone has the authority to make a citizen's arrest.

(Insert inevitable Andy Griffith Show reference here.)

|9.20.09 @ 5:54PM|#

Both back prostitution.

does that mean ACORN is Dutch, too?

And I thought we liked prostitution, anyway.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 6:13PM|#

And I thought we liked prostitution, anyway.

I thought it was only adult prostitution we liked? But other child labor is fine.

|9.20.09 @ 6:25PM|#

Wait. On second thought, FUCK Lore and his positronic bullshit.

Yeah, I went there.

What, now you've graduated to insulting Asimov too?

|9.20.09 @ 6:30PM|#

Lore was defeated once by Wesley Crusher and another time by Hugh of Borg for Frith's sake. The only guy he ever beat up was Dr Soong which is pretty pathetic in its own right.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 6:37PM|#

Ugh! You guys! Why did Star Trek leave my head after I turned thirty?

|9.20.09 @ 6:41PM|#

Lore didn't have to beat up anyone; he was better at talking Data into doing that for him.

Attorney|9.20.09 @ 6:46PM|#

Why did Star Trek leave my head after I turned thirty?

Umm ... because you're normal?

Suki|9.20.09 @ 7:02PM|#

Such a good Attorney! Thank you.

SIV|9.20.09 @ 7:16PM|#

Where's Welch ? Obama Open To Newspaper Bailout Bill

Maybe him and Cavanaugh can get their old jobs back :)

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 7:24PM|#

What, now you've graduated to insulting Asimov too?

Funny, I still enjoy the episode where the twist is Data being definitively shown as *not* a Three Laws robot. It also featured Saul Rubinek, which is always cool.

Suki|9.20.09 @ 7:38PM|#

I liked Azimov, but always thought the three laws thing was silly. Then I grew up and realized that most laws are silly.

Elemenope|9.20.09 @ 7:43PM|#

The Three Laws were meant as a criticism of Deontology. Take that, Kant!

R. Daneel Olivaw|9.20.09 @ 7:44PM|#

One of those goddam Zeroth Law heretics. There goes the neighborhood.

|9.20.09 @ 7:47PM|#

The Hopey One, from the newspaper story:

"I am concerned that if the direction of the news is all blogosphere, all opinions, with no serious fact-checking, no serious attempts to put stories in context, that what you will end up getting is people shouting at each other across the void but not a lot of mutual understanding," he said.

Yeah, as if the newspapers are any different.

|9.20.09 @ 7:54PM|#

We need someone who has expereienced the nasty end of the power of the state in the White House. Someone who can actually empathize with the victims of state power.

Considering that we got Reagan after the collosal fuck up that was (and is) Carter, there might be a chance for a 21st century equvilent post-Obamanation.

This isn't to say that Reagan was on the receving end of state power, far from it, but he was an ardent anti-communist and a step in the right direction, at least.

Is there anyone left in the GOP with some brains AND balls or have they all taken one too many hits off the neocon bong? (Yeah, yeah, I know, we've been screwed by the GOP so many times that they could at least leave a tip on the way out the door.)

Suki|9.20.09 @ 8:05PM|#

"I am concerned that if the direction of the news is all blogosphere, all opinions, with no serious fact-checking, no serious attempts to put stories in context, that what you will end up getting is people shouting at each other across the void but not a lot of mutual understanding," he said.

So he really does know MNG.

|9.20.09 @ 9:05PM|#

Kyle Varner|9.20.09 @ 10:59PM|#

This is a sad comment on the state of America. The war on drugs has turned police officers, who ought to be, and I believe once were, there to protect our rights, into thugs who will do anything to catch some invisible boogey man (no matter who they hurt in the process).

I hope that this gentleman sues the hell out of the police!

Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|9.21.09 @ 9:25AM|#

"does that mean ACORN is Dutch, too?"

No because the Dutch did not legalize prostitution among 13 year olds. Have you seen the videos?

"And I thought we liked prostitution, anyway."

Among consenting adults yes, not among children. Have you seen the videos?

|9.21.09 @ 11:52AM|#

What pisses me off is that the MAYOR was NOT charged with a CRIME and had his HOME seized under the RICO act...like happens to so many innocent people that the POLICE blunder the drug raid...and just cover up.

So because a lot of poor minorities are the regular victims of injustice, we need some affirmative action to make sure that affluent honkies get fucked over regularly too? I really hope you aren't serious, because that's just sick.

|9.21.09 @ 1:02PM|#

"When the police break the law, there is no law." Billy Jack

Listen, we all know that police routinely commit perjury, plant evidence and so on. And somehow America accepts this. I think the idea is this - the police are only doing this to bad guys who deserve it, so it's, basically, okay. None of which is to say there are not decent honest cops, but, apparently, there aren't quite enough of them.

Joe M|9.21.09 @ 1:21PM|#

Today's brickbat was about a 14 year old girl that had to have a Taser dart surgically removed after an officer shot it at her. The story is two and a half months old, and the cop has been cleared of any wrongdoing and is back on the job. The system works!

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