Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
From the Streets of Tehran
A roundup of video, photo, and Twitter reports from the streets of Tehran. And a few comments from informed—and not so informed—Iran observers from around the web. At The Daily Beast, Reza Aslan points out that "bald-faced election fraud is a totally new phenomenon in Iran, which takes its election process very seriously. This is, after all, the only expression of popular sovereignty that Iranians enjoy." Christopher Hitchens upbraids the media for credulously calling them "elections": "Any newspaper referring to the subsequent proceedings as an election, sometimes complete with rallies, polls, counts, and all the rest of it, is the cause of helpless laughter among the ayatollahs. ("They fell for it? But it's too easy!")." Indeed, just last week Jon Stewart ripped those who fear the Mullahs, observing, in apparent seriousness, that Iran "appears to have one of the more vibrant democracies in the Middle East."
The Boston Globe has some amazing high-res photos of the protests here.
The government of Nicolas Sarkozy issued a clear statement of condemnation:
In Paris, Foreign Ministry spokesman Eric Chevallier said Iran's ambassador had been summoned to hear French concerns over "the brutal repression of peaceful protests and the repeated attacks on the liberty of the press and freedom of speech."
Blogging at The Washington Post, Ezra Klein chimes in with this gem: "There
are a couple things to say about this, all of them depressing.
First, those of us who have long argued for the fundamental
rationality of the Iranian regime have seen our case fundamentally
weakened." Well, live and learn, young lad.
Incidentally, for those interested in knowing more of the history
of the Iranian revolution, I, quite fortuitously, recently started
reading a review copy of
this new book by Daily Telegraph correspondent Con
Coughlin, who last week chimed in on Iran's "potemkin
election" in the Wall Street Journal.
From StopAhmedi's Twitter feed ("A
dedicated Twitter account for Mousavi supporters"), who is
reporting from Tehran:
"more than 100 motorbikers at Baseej headquerters in Iran street"
"reports of gun shots in Sadatabad too - we heard gunshots from that direction about 45 mins ago" #iranelection
NEWS: CONFIRMED Basiji central building put on fire today by ppl
Also recommended: IranNewsNow, PersianKiwi, and Mohamed Reza.
And this photo, which looks like a still from a live-action version of Persepolis:
Jack Thread|6.15.09 @ 7:17PM|#
The danger liberalism poses to the American experiment comes from its disposition to deplete rather than replenish the capital required for self-government. Entitlement programs overextend not only financial but political capital. They proffer new "rights," goad people to demand and expand those rights aggressively, and disdain truth in advertising about the nature or scope of the new debts and obligations those rights will engender. The experiment in self-government requires the cultivation, against the grain of a democratic age, of the virtues of self-reliance, patience, sacrifice, and restraint. The people who have this moral and social capital understand and accept that there "will be many long periods when you put more into your institutions than you get out," according to David Brooks. Instead, liberalism promotes snarling but unrugged individualism, combining an absolute right "to the lifestyle of one's choice (regardless of the social cost) with an equally fundamental right to be supported at state expense," as the Manhattan Institute's Fred Siegel once described it. Finally, the capital bestowed by vigilance against all enemies, foreign and domestic, is squandered when liberals insist on approaching street gangs, illegal immigrants, and terrorist regimes in the hopeful belief that, to quote the political scientist Joseph Cropsey, "trust edifies and absolute trust edifies absolutely."
|6.15.09 @ 7:18PM|#
The complete photo is not showing, Michael. Dimension it or
resize it.
So who thinks this could possibly blow up into civil war? Any
possibility at all?
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 7:23PM|#
So who thinks this could possibly blow up into civil war?
Any possibility at all?
Well, nobody can know that. On the other hand, the last time this
happened in Iran (students taking to the streets by the thousands,
rioting) some serious shit went down. 1979 was not, like, a long
time ago.
BakedPenguin|6.15.09 @ 7:46PM|#
"Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good Persian girl like that."
|6.15.09 @ 7:47PM|#
What? No coverage of the Laker's riot?
OK, you got me interested enough to
google it up. Doesn't seem like big news for anywhere outside
of southern California. But one of the comments in the article I
linked to was worth noting
cops are choking emt workers, tazering old ladies, beating up ministers, and THIS is what people riot about???!!!?!?!?!?!
Bread and circuses.
Fluffy|6.15.09 @ 7:53PM|#
She actually looks kinda cute.
She's look even cuter shoving that cane up that old guy's ass.
|6.15.09 @ 8:03PM|#
Well she is wearing jeans.
And Chuck Taylors. Clearly an agent of skateboarding Satan.
"Let's get some new outfits. That's a great idea. You decided to
rock jeans, for instance. I'm confused by that."
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:06PM|#
Well she is wearing jeans.
Clearly an agent of Satan.
Clearly you've confused Iran with Saudi Arabia.
|6.15.09 @ 8:12PM|#
Bill-O is sucking cock right out now.
the fuckwad deserves to die for his fight-wing idiocy.
|6.15.09 @ 8:14PM|#
Indeed, just last week Jon Stewart ripped those who fear the Mullahs, observing, in apparent seriousness, that Iran "appears to have one of the more vibrant democracies in the Middle East."
It fits his narrative, so it must be true.
MNG|6.15.09 @ 8:16PM|#
"a few comments from informed-and not so informed-Iran
observers"
How would a not so informed observer be able to tell who are the
informed observers and who are the not so informed observers? Which
is Moynihan on things Iranian?
So the above probably means "a few comments who confirm what I
think and believe, and a few who don't and who make me upset, and
are clearly wrong."
MNG|6.15.09 @ 8:17PM|#
"appears to have one of the more vibrant democracies in the
Middle East."
In Stewart's defense that is a mighty easy bar to jump...
|6.15.09 @ 8:18PM|#
I don't know, Brandybuck, there's a certain vibrancy to an
electorate that takes to the streets when it thinks it's been
cheated.
Sometimes I wish we had such an electorate here in the US.
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:20PM|#
In Stewart's defense that is a mighty easy bar to
jump...
Israel and Turkey are not exactly slouches when it comes to
democracy. Perfect? Of course not. But definitely a helluva lot
more democratic than Iran, who it must be noted, is in turn a great
deal more democratic than most of its neighbors to the south.
(Iraq, being still occupied, does not count in either category I
think.)
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:21PM|#
I don't know, Brandybuck, there's a certain vibrancy to an
electorate that takes to the streets when it thinks it's been
cheated.
This is also an excellent point. We're so used to being cheated
(albeit usually in smaller ways) that we don't rise as one to slay
someone.
Remember the 80s|6.15.09 @ 8:22PM|#
I walked along the avenue.
I never thought Id meet a girl like you;
Meet a girl like you.
With auburn hair and tawny eyes;
The kind of eyes that hypnotize me through;
Hypnotize me through.
And Iran, Iran's so far away.
Just Iran, Iran all night and day.
I couldn't get away.
Reached out a cane to touch your face;
You're slowly disappearing from my view;
Disappearing from my view.
Reached out a cane to try again;
Im floating in a beam of light with you;
A beam of light with you.
|6.15.09 @ 8:27PM|#
"appears to have one of the more vibrant democracies in the Middle East."
In Stewart's defense that is a mighty easy bar to jump...
Iraq doesn't count till one election after the US troops leave. Israel, Lebanon and Turkey are all more "vibrant" democracies than Iran.
Cabeza de Vaca|6.15.09 @ 8:29PM|#
"Upside: more hot Persian chicks for America."
I love Persian chics they are very passionate lovers. I'm lucky
enough to know from experience.
|6.15.09 @ 8:29PM|#
Screwed up those blockquote tags, didn't I?
"appears to have one of the more vibrant democracies in the Middle East."
In Stewart's defense that is a mighty easy bar to jump...
Iraq doesn't count till one election after the US troops leave.
Israel, Lebanon and Turkey are all more "vibrant" democracies than
Iran has ever been.
|6.15.09 @ 8:29PM|#
Turkey is technically the Near East, isn't it? Aside from the pervasive Islam, it's hard to think of Istanbul as being a Middle Eastern city.
|6.15.09 @ 8:31PM|#
Hey, the middle of the alphabet guy and I pretty much agree. He forgot Lebanon though.
|6.15.09 @ 8:33PM|#
It was very rational. They lost the election and forged the result to keep power. Rational and moral are different spheres.
|6.15.09 @ 8:39PM|#
Turkey is technically the Near East, isn't it? Aside from
the pervasive Islam, it's hard to think of Istanbul as being a
Middle Eastern city.
Middle East
Countries at a Glance
Worldatlas.com
map
and the font of all internet knowledge, Wiki
So yeah Turkey is in the Middle East. Two of the three sources
place Egypt in the Middle East as well. I think that's bullshit
myself. I place Egypt in fucking Africa.
Cabeza de Vaca|6.15.09 @ 8:40PM|#
"Turkey is technically the Near East, isn't it? Aside from the
pervasive Islam, it's hard to think of Istanbul as being a Middle
Eastern city."
It's both. Istanbul is a european city, but the eastern part of the
country is middle eastern.
|6.15.09 @ 8:41PM|#
Ah, not only an arguer from authority, but a cafeteria-arguer from authority. Critical thinking is a good thing in today's complex world, sir.
|6.15.09 @ 8:45PM|#
Well the eastern part of Turkey is also where they have problems with rebels and such, so that doesn't go against the general rule for the Middle East. That's why it's so hard to investigate that supposed Noah's ark site, not that I give a water-treading polar bear about that.
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:45PM|#
Hey, the middle of the alphabet guy and I pretty much agree.
He forgot Lebanon though.
I keep forgetting Lebanon. Somehow I can't think of them as much
more than an extension of Syria and/or occupied by Israel (old
habits, both).
Hugh Akston|6.15.09 @ 8:47PM|#
Does anyone know why the vests and riot shields have POLICE
written in English and not Arabic?
Did we loan out some of our narcotics/SWAT officers to protect and
serve these demonstrators or just the surplus equipment?
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:48PM|#
So yeah Turkey is in the Middle East. Two of the three
sources place Egypt in the Middle East as well. I think that's
bullshit myself. I place Egypt in fucking
Africa.
Wow, agree with me and Rev. Wright on the same day. You feel
alright?
But seriously, on the Moyers interview, he talked about the Middle
East being a sort of fictional eighth continent that defrayed the
rightful cultural inheritance of both Africa and Asia. No matter
how much a nut he may be, it made a great deal of sense. Egypt *is*
in fucking Africa.
BakedPenguin|6.15.09 @ 8:48PM|#
...it's hard to think of Istanbul as being a Middle Eastern city.
Perhaps that's because it was once Constantinople.
Cabeza de Vaca|6.15.09 @ 8:49PM|#
Tulpa,
Look at a map. I've been to Istanbul the people who live there
consider themselves europeans & will get pissed if you say
otherwise. The bosphorus divides the city if half. Half the city is
in europe the other half in the middle east.
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 8:49PM|#
Does anyone know why the vests and riot shields have POLICE
written in English and not Arabic?
Now that's a good fucking question. Old loaners to the Shah,
perhaps. They do have a rather large English-speaking population,
esp. in the major cities.
|6.15.09 @ 8:50PM|#
Tulpa, word and term definitions are determined by authority.
But you knew that, right?
Here's what the nOObs at the CIA think.
Turkey is part of the Middle East.
|6.15.09 @ 8:55PM|#
But seriously, on the Moyers interview, he talked about the
Middle East being a sort of fictional eighth continent that
defrayed the rightful cultural inheritance of both Africa and
Asia.
All the continents are fictional. The only reason it makes sense to
group Zimbabwe and Egypt together (or Saudi Arabia and Korea) is
because you can write a word across both of them without going
through a large body of water.
I wonder if Moyers noticed that big swath of yellow going from the
Atlantic to the Red Sea on satellite images of Africa. That might
have something to do with keeping Egypt, et al, from having to do
with Africa's cultural inheritance, whatever that means. I mean, we
don't ever talk about North America's cultural inheritance -- might
have something to do with the fact that it's harder to lump diverse
cultures together when you actually live in one of them.
Cabeza de Vaca|6.15.09 @ 8:57PM|#
"Does anyone know why the vests and riot shields have POLICE
written in English and not Arabic?"
Persians don't speak Arabic they speak Farsi, but I found that
unusual also.
B|6.15.09 @ 8:59PM|#
"First, those of us who have long argued for the fundamental
rationality of the Iranian regime have seen our case fundamentally
weakened."
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Is joe actually Ezra Klein? The rationality of the Iranian regime?
You have to be fucking kidding me.
|6.15.09 @ 9:00PM|#
Also note that Europe and Asia get separated along a very arbitrary line that has only a very tenuous cultural significance dating back to the Greek-Persian wars. There's far more justification for putting Greece and Turkey in the same continent than there is to do so with Morocco and Mozambique.
shrike|6.15.09 @ 9:02PM|#
I am a total fucking idiot. All I can do is talk about Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh. Man am I a douchebag.
|6.15.09 @ 9:06PM|#
Ya'll leave shrike alone. I completely supported Alice Bowie when she decided to transition and I still support him now.
|6.15.09 @ 9:07PM|#
Tulpa, the definitions of what is or isn't a continent are all
screwed up. Finding consensus is difficult if even possible. Plate
tectonics is probably the best way to rationally deal with it. Of
course this makes India seperate from Eurasia creating other
problems.
For beginners
JW Gacy|6.15.09 @ 9:19PM|#
I think I speak for all of us when I thank shrike for his sudden
and unexpected candor.
Three cheers for shrike! shrike we like!
MNG|6.15.09 @ 9:21PM|#
J sub D
Your atlas has all the "stans" as the middle east too, and I
clearly don't think that way. So, I can excuse Stewart for not
thinking of Turkey as part of the Middle East.
Lebanon has some problems as a "vibrant" democracy" as well.
No fan of Stewart, but I get what he's saying...
Colin|6.15.09 @ 9:44PM|#
There's some great video at (UK) Channel 4's website.
Wonderful Persepolis joke!
Matt Osborne|6.15.09 @ 9:44PM|#
What we're seeing is not a "new" revolution, but a continuation
of the one that began in 1978.
Popular discontent with clerical control of both politics and the
economy has exploded as both of their social compacts -- "don't
rock the boat and things will get better," "you can vote as long as
we pick the candidates" -- have been utterly broken by Ahmadinejad
and Khamenei.
|6.15.09 @ 9:47PM|#
The woman in the picture is cute. I would be nice if McHopey would you know have a meeting or something about this. Maybe say something in support of the protestors. But sadly I have a feeling I know how this is going to end. The mullahs are going to murder a bunch of people and Amaddinnerjacket or whatever that crazy fuck's name is will be President. And then Obama will tell us what a reasonable guy he is and how we just need to talk and pursue "diplomacy" whatever that means.
Norbert Sluzewski|6.15.09 @ 9:58PM|#
In light of our docile posture in response to the recent
opposition protests and general post election upheaval in that
country, I have to say I am a little confused about our strategy
and foreign policy toward Iran at this time. If we indeed want to
be proactive and acknowledge our contribution to the present
situation, then some follow through action would be
necessary.
If on the other hand we want to see the situation play out on its
own (or more realistically support it covertly), then such
statement by the President are highly undesirable.
Sending overt signals with promises not backed up by action (or
believable promises of action), only leads to resentment within,
and alienation of the forces of potential change. As a result the
enemy (dictatorial regime) becomes more emboldened while the spirit
and trust in the US of the opposition forces are severely
dampened.
Based on our current posture I am confused about which path the US
is taking. History proves that the most dangerous decision a
government can make is to not make one at all.
The Angry Optimist|6.15.09 @ 9:59PM|#
And then Obama will tell us what a reasonable guy he is and how we just need to talk and pursue "diplomacy" whatever that means.
How much do you want to bet that he says that?
He might say the latter, but what irritates me is that this
Administration is in a tough spot. What irritates me more is that
you're willing to make political hay about it.
you really are the semi-literate version of j**.
|6.15.09 @ 10:02PM|#
The mullahs are going to murder a bunch of people and
Amaddinnerjacket or whatever that crazy fuck's name is will be
President.
There was a time when Mohammed Reza Pahlavi thought he could put
down riots and hang on to power. We don't know how this is going
play out; Iran could become a free country at last.
-jcr
The Angry Optimist|6.15.09 @ 10:04PM|#
I mean, John, do you think an American president is going to get
on television and say "this Ahmadinejad guy...SO REASONABLE!"
Only in your partisan dreams, my friend.
|6.15.09 @ 10:31PM|#
MNG,
Israel is still a pretty glaring omission on Stewart's part, don't
you think? Though historically it was considered part of the Near
East...a region that's been absorbed into the Middle East (which
originally referred to what's now Iraq, Iran, Arabia, etc) in
modern parlance, for better or worse.
|6.15.09 @ 10:33PM|#
Plate tectonics is probably the best way to rationally deal
with it. Of course this makes India seperate from Eurasia creating
other problems.
It also would mean the coast of California is in a different
continent from the rest of the US. Then again, that may be more of
a feature than a bug...
|6.15.09 @ 10:37PM|#
I guess ultimately you have to decide what to expect from continents. If they're defined by tectonic plates it's pretty silly to talk about the cultural heritage of a continent, for instance. Some geographic/geologic features do have an effect on the way cultures interact etcetera, but I wouldn't think that applies to tectonic plates, the existence of which was only settled in the 20th century. Well, so long as you're not a plate denier.
|6.15.09 @ 10:40PM|#
TAO,
Putin and Ahminejad are totally different animals. Putin's lunacy
is a more quiet sort, so it's safer to praise him publicly. Also,
Putin has nearly absolute power over a nuclear-armed nation, while
Ahminejad has very little power over a non-nuclear nation.
MNG|6.15.09 @ 10:41PM|#
"Israel is still a pretty glaring omission on Stewart's part,
don't you think?"
Well, not if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of
Palestinians they rule but don't let participate in voting and
such. I mean, if Syria declared the Southern half of Syria free and
able to elect leaders but not the Northern half it would not really
be a "vibrant democracy." Yes, Israeli citizens have a democracy
that seems free and fair aplenty, but their occupied neighbors
don't get to play at all. In that sense the South back under Jim
Crow was a "vibrant democracy."
But it's bed time and I ain't getting sucked into any post on
Israel-Palestinian, shit I argued for hours over health care
today...Say what you will...
The Angry Optimist|6.15.09 @ 10:45PM|#
Tulpa - um, OK. Due respect, but why are you talking about Russia? I'm very confused.
The Angry Optimist|6.15.09 @ 10:46PM|#
MNG - see, Iran is a better democracy, because at least it lets everybody participate in its sham elections!
Elemenope|6.15.09 @ 10:49PM|#
The rationality of the Iranian regime? You have to be
fucking kidding me.
I don't know why this is so funny. In point of fact, I don't see
how the current debacle is evidence they aren't; simply evidence
they have miscalculated badly.
I wonder if Moyers noticed that big swath of yellow going from
the Atlantic to the Red Sea on satellite images of
Africa.
That yellow swath was much, much smaller three thousand years ago,
which is when he was talking about, and FWIW, there was a great
deal of cultural intercourse up the white Nile in those days, from
present-day Ethiopia.
|6.15.09 @ 10:57PM|#
Well, not if you're one of the hundreds of thousands of
Palestinians they rule but don't let participate in voting and
such.
Right. The Israelis just installed the Hamas majority in the
Palestinian parliament cause they thought they were good, docile
fellows.
Kidding aside, I assume you mean that Palestinians don't get to
vote for Israel's own government. Which impugns the US too, since
Puerto Ricans, Guamese, and Virgin Islanders don't get to vote in
our elections despite having home rule.
BlueBook|6.15.09 @ 11:07PM|#
Maybe we should return to the old "Fertile Crescent" terminology for the region. True, this would exclude some of the most productive and contentious oil fields, but access to those fields is still largely dominated by the people living in the more habitable adjacent lands.
BlueBook|6.15.09 @ 11:16PM|#
I also noticed the curious English language police gear. One could argue that it doesn't make much difference. No matter where you are or what tongue you speak, the riot cops look the same: men in helmets and boots, carrying shields and batons and spraying tear gas or fire hoses. Not a whole lot of ambiguity there.
Mr. Chartreuse|6.15.09 @ 11:38PM|#
This is probably going to be the most useless thread comment, but did anyone else notice how well dressed the protesters and government militia guys are? Who would have thought you could crack down on protests in a Brooks Brothers dress shirt and some pressed slacks.
|6.16.09 @ 7:08AM|#
So?
Should we go out and support the Iranian protesters? Perhaps with
protests of our own?
MNG|6.16.09 @ 7:57AM|#
TAO
I don't know, who had the more "vibrant democracy" in 1980, Russia
now (Iran) or S. Africa in 1980 (Israel)?
Tulpa
Israel Population: 7,233,701
West Bank Pop: 2,461,267
Gaza Pop: 1,551,859
So Israel rules over a population a little less than half its own
without letting them participate in its elections. So that's a
little different than us and Guam. Oh, and here's another little
difference: people in Guam are citizens of the U.S. with all the
rights that entails. Not true for the Occupied Territories...So
it's closer to S. Africa than the U.S. (for the record, I think our
territories should be allowed representation)
Surely someone will crow: b-b-ut Israel gave them autonomy! So
let's slap that down now to begin with...
1. This "autonomy" was "granted" by Israel about 25-30 years into
their rule of these people...
2. This "autonomy" is nothing like what we would call autonomy.
Israel retains the rights to control the borders totally, and to
come into the areas at any time and "arrest" any PA "citizen." It
collects duties "for" the PA. It appropriates the land there at
will....There is a reason why Nibby won't even say the words "two
state solution", he's said up front he hopes to "one day" give them
"something like a state." I mean, the S. African's had limited
local autonomy in their Bantustan's too...
MNG|6.16.09 @ 7:59AM|#
I would say Iran's elections are less of a sham than Russia's,
but worse than Turkeys for example.
They actually have international monitoring organizations which
pronounce these elections "fair and free" or not. I imagine they've
declared Iran's properly "not free."
|6.16.09 @ 10:49AM|#
1. This "autonomy" was "granted" by Israel about 25-30 years
into their rule of these people...
2. This "autonomy" is nothing like what we would call autonomy.
Israel retains the rights to control the borders totally, and to
come into the areas at any time and "arrest" any PA "citizen." It
collects duties "for" the PA. It appropriates the land there at
will....
And MNG once again demonstrates his ignorance of US history. I
don't think you want to go down this road.
|6.16.09 @ 10:59AM|#
In light of our docile posture in response to the recent
opposition protests and general post election upheaval in that
country, I have to say I am a little confused about our strategy
and foreign policy toward Iran at this time.
The need to be seen engaging in "dialogue" and "engagement" trump
all other considerations, including the nature of the regime we are
"engaged" with. That this serves to legitimize and entrench a
repellent and hated regime matters not. To a Community Organizer in
Chief, dialogue, process, engagement, outreach, all that is an end
in itself, and, indeed, the most important end.
Thus, the almost complete radio silence from the White House on
this. They want to get their goddam dialogue going already, no
preconditions, and all these protests are in the way.
Fluffy|6.16.09 @ 11:03AM|#
The Israelis just installed the Hamas majority in the
Palestinian parliament cause they thought they were good, docile
fellows.
Actually, when Hamas won the Gaza elections, the first thing the US
and Israel did was try to arm and fund Fatah to launch a coup in
Gaza and blow Hamas away.
When that didn't work, Israel put a blockade in place around Gaza
to try to starve the Gazans out to punish them for electing
Hamas.
And when residents of Gaza started firing rockets into Israel in
response to the blockade, Israel re-invaded the Gaza strip and blew
up anything that moved and any building with any economic
value.
So, yeah, that's kind of like what the US does to Puerto Rico and
Guam. Although I don't recall the news reports where we blockaded
and bombed Guam when we didn't like the way a home rule election
turned out. Then again, I don't know if you can really say that an
area has "home rule" in the first place where voting for the wrong
people results in the metropolitan power inciting civil war and
starting a blockade. That's an odd type of home rule.
In any event, even humoring you to contrast the two implies that I
endorse the history of the US territorial empire following the
Spanish-American war, and I don't. So it's not really up to me to
defend it or its legacy political arrangements.
|6.16.09 @ 11:54AM|#
When that didn't work, Israel put a blockade in place around
Gaza to try to starve the Gazans out to punish them for electing
Hamas.
I was under the impression that the 2007 blockade was preceded by
attacks from Gaza. Its hard to find reliable information, though.
Any links?
|6.16.09 @ 12:12PM|#
I've been getting some pretty great updates (a lot of amazing photos) from @Madyar. You guys should follow him(her?) if you're interested in all of this.
Fluffy|6.16.09 @ 12:13PM|#
http://www.webcitation.org/5hQ1yt77u
The Washington Post reported that the border was sealed as of June
18, 2007, which is the very day that Fatah abandoned Gaza. The
blockade was never lifted after that.
It was actually fairly reasonable for the Israelis - and the
Egyptians - to seal the border while actual fighting was taking
place within Gaza between the different Palestinian factions.
What's objectionable is that the blockade was left in place because
the wrong side [the side that had won the election and was
resisting a US and Israeli sponsored coup] won the battle.
|6.16.09 @ 1:30PM|#
Thanks, Fluffy.
What's objectionable is that the blockade was left in place
because the wrong side [the side that had won the election and was
resisting a US and Israeli sponsored coup] won the
battle.
Would a blockade be acceptable as a response to terrorist attacks,
shelling, and rockets from Gaza?
|6.16.09 @ 1:54PM|#
And we thought the Lakers riots were bad.. it was mentioned on
Hardball that doesn't it seem odd that there appears to be more
freedom in Iran, a so-called "axis of evil" by Bush, than in Saudi
Arabia, supposedly one of our closest allies? There were Saudi
hijackers on 9/11 - no Iranian hijackers.
BTW, there are lots of hot Persian women here in LA..not that I'm
encouraging any of you to come here.
Fluffy|6.16.09 @ 3:01PM|#
Would a blockade be acceptable as a response to terrorist
attacks, shelling, and rockets from Gaza?
That depends on what had proceeded the terrorist attacks, shelling,
and rockets.
Douglas Gray|6.16.09 @ 4:27PM|#
According to Reuters, Mousavi was losing to Aj. in the polls by about a 2-1 margin three weeks or so prior to the elections. Of course, the polls could have been rigged too, but it is possible that Aj. won legitimately. Hard to tell. Also, I have heard that Mousavi's wife wears the pants in the family and that he is really not all that much liked.
what|6.16.09 @ 4:57PM|#
How can anyone win "legitimately" when only 4 hand picked candidates were allowed to run in the first place?
Helper|6.17.09 @ 10:13PM|#
I hope that guy in the picture is trying to help that girl up
with his stick. If not, he's a real dick.
The biggest takeaway from the last few days has been that Iran is
full of uppity punk rock kids. They are doing alright.
Let them work that shit out while wearing their Chucks and shadors
or whatever.
Everybody knows that there are more of these cool young people in
Iran than any other age group. I'm happy to see that they look like
cool people.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245