Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Washington Pays Mills to Pollute
The Nation's Chris Hayes encounters the law of unintended consequences:
I've come to expect that even nobly conceived laws will be manipulated and distorted for private ends. But once in a while I hear a story that gives me the queasy feeling that I'm nowhere near cynical enough. Such is the case with the tale of the paper industry and the alternative-fuel tax credit.
Thanks to an obscure tax provision, the United States government stands to pay out as much as $8 billion this year to the ten largest paper companies. And get this: even though the money comes from a transportation bill whose manifest intent was to reduce dependence on fossil fuel, paper mills are adding diesel fuel to a process that requires none in order to qualify for the tax credit. In other words, we are paying the industry--handsomely--to use more fossil fuel....
In fact, the money to be gained from exploiting the tax credit so dwarfs the money to be made in making paper--IP lost $452 million in the fourth quarter of 2008 alone--that the ultimate result of the credit will likely be to push paper prices down as mills churn at full capacity in order to grab as much money from the IRS as it can.
The provision, passed in 2005, pays 50 cents a gallon "for the use of fuel mixtures that combined 'alternative fuel' with a 'taxable fuel' such as diesel or gasoline." Naturally, this encourages the mills, which had been using a fairly clean and efficient process before, to add some diesel to the mix, just to get the credit.
"You use the toilet every day," said one hedge fund analyst who's been closely following the issue. "Imagine if you could start pouring a little gasoline into the bowl and get fifty cents a gallon every time you flushed."
[Hat tip: the innominate one.]
Abdul|4.7.09 @ 9:37AM|#
If we mix some diesel with the money that the Government is throwing down a giant rat hole, at least we'll get some tax credits out of the process.
Tym|4.7.09 @ 9:39AM|#
A similar situation occurs with the synthetic fuel credit for Section 29. Companies can spray some diesel on some coal and claim the credit.
The Angry Optimist|4.7.09 @ 9:45AM|#
So, is Hayes going to learn his lesson and quit supporting the
imposition of Utopia from the top down?
Whether or not Congress gets around to turning off the spigot,
the episode is a useful reminder of the persistently ingenious ways
the private sector can exploit even well-intentioned
legislation.
Gee, Mr. Hayes, do ya mean that no matter how starry-eyed and
pure-of-heart the intent is, people are going to respond to
incentives?
I swear by Christ, liberals are worse than Christians sometimes.
Neither group understands human nature very well.
kinnath|4.7.09 @ 9:57AM|#
From Andrew Leonard over at Salon:
Granted, this is the kind of stuff that makes libertarianism
look attractive. And it is doubly distressing that Congress doesn't
appear eager to close the loophole in short order. Unintended
consequences of legislation are inevitable -- the measure of good
government is how politicians respond to them. Without the will to
impose real oversight, acknowledge mistakes and fix them when they
are discovered, and constantly strive to improve governance, we
will be stuck with bad government. And that might be one of the
most distressing results of decades of being told that government
is the problem -- we hear a story like Hayes', and think
despondently, you know, they were right, rather than squaring our
shoulders and reapplying ourselves to the wheel.
I've been following Andrew for years over at Salon -- he is one of
the few rational voices. Yet, he has been a huge disappointment on
the bailouts since last year.
|4.7.09 @ 9:58AM|#
But once in a while I hear a story that gives me the queasy
feeling that I'm nowhere near cynical enough.
Hayes, Balko. Balko, Hayes. Talk amongst yourselves.
|4.7.09 @ 10:03AM|#
Unintended consequences of legislation are inevitable -- the
measure of good government is how politicians respond to
them.
This is a recipe for a positive-feedback loop of epically
disastrous proportions. Laws causing you problems? Pass more laws!
Those laws causing you problems? Pass more laws!
|4.7.09 @ 10:14AM|#
I've come to expect that even nobly conceived laws will be
manipulated and distorted for private ends.
You cannot solve a problem until you recognize its existence.
|4.7.09 @ 10:16AM|#
The Angry Optimist
So, is Hayes going to learn his lesson and quit supporting the
imposition of Utopia from the top down?
No, because I am sure he believes that Utopia can be properly
imposed if the "correct" Utopian is on top
|4.7.09 @ 10:25AM|#
I've come to expect that even nobly conceived laws will be manipulated and distorted for private ends
Congratulations and welcome to Libertarianism! There will be a
probationary period before you get your fully powered decoder
ring.
phalkor|4.7.09 @ 10:29AM|#
If only the right people were in charge
Why is it so hard to find the right people!?!?!?!
|4.7.09 @ 10:31AM|#
The provision, passed in 2005, pays 50 cents a gallon "for the use of fuel mixtures that combined 'alternative fuel' with a 'taxable fuel' such as diesel or gasoline." [italics added]
Y'see? That was the evil Earth trashing Republicans who pushed that
through. Now that "the right people"™ are in charge all of this
gaming the system will be averted by enacting intelligent statutes
and regulations that unerringly forsee the consequences.
On a related note, I got a bridge for sale if anyone is
interested.
Nick|4.7.09 @ 10:35AM|#
Classic case of libtards not thinking things through. They
naturally assumed this was the greatest idea ever, and nothing
could go wrong.
http://www.notoriouslyconservative.com
Bronwyn|4.7.09 @ 10:43AM|#
If you had some ocean-front property in Arizona, you may get some bites. Everyone already knows about the Bridge to Nowhere.
|4.7.09 @ 10:48AM|#
raivo pommer-www.google.ee
raimo1@hot.ee
Das Volumen an toxischen Wertpapieren
in den Bilanzen von Banken und Versicherungen könnte einem
Zeitungsbericht zufolge auf 4 Billionen Dollar gewachsen sein.
Diese Schätzung werde der Internationale Währungsfonds (IWF) bei
seinem nächsten Bericht zur Lage der Weltwirtschaft am 21. April
voraussichtlich nennen, berichtet die britische Zeitung "The Times"
(Dienstagausgabe) ohne Angabe von Quellen. Im Januar hatte der IWF
den Umfang der "vergifteten" Papiere in den Vereinigten Staaten auf
2,2 Billionen Dollar veranschlagt.
Diese Schätzung für die Vereinigten Staaten dürfte nun auf 3,1
Billionen Dollar angehoben werden, schreibt die Zeitung. Hinzu
komme ein Volumen von rund 900 Milliarden Dollar für inzwischen
toxische Wertpapiere, die in Europa und Asien emittiert
wurden.
Die Schätzung des IWF zu den toxischen Wertpapieren verheißt nichts
Gutes
Derweil gehen die von der amerikanischen Regierung angekündigten
"Stresstests" für die größten amerikanischen Banken laut
Medienberichten in ihre heiße Phase. Die Tests sollen die
Stabilität der 19 führenden amerikanischen Finanzhäuser für den
Fall einer weiteren Verschlechterung der Konjunktur untersuchen.
Bankenaufseher wollten sich in dieser Woche treffen, um die
Auswertung der Ergebnisse zu diskutieren, berichtete unter anderem
das "Wall Street Journal" unter Berufung auf Insider.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Hey Dems, only 13 shopping days until Hitler's birthday. I know you all have more National Socialism on your wishlist.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 10:49AM|#
How ironical. German dude posted close to the same time as my Hitler comment.
|4.7.09 @ 10:52AM|#
"You use the toilet every day," said one hedge fund
analyst
Not in this economy!
[waggles cigar]
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 10:57AM|#
PL,
True, but don't most closet National Socialists go with the 4/20
Hitler deal?
|4.7.09 @ 10:57AM|#
If you had some ocean-front property in Arizona, you may get
some bites. Everyone already knows about the Bridge to
Nowhere.
I own some shares of a condo complex in Costa Del Lex, and have a
few acres in Otisburg.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:01AM|#
David,
Is Costa Del Lex near Del Boca Vista? Not the Florida one of
course.
|4.7.09 @ 11:05AM|#
Well, as the linked posting indicates, George Takei celebrates Hitler's birthday.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:13AM|#
Well, as the linked posting indicates, George Takei
celebrates Hitler's birthday.
Your earlier wording threw me a bit. I thought other famous
Socialists had that birthday, not that Sulu celebrated it
too.
I know better than to go to that URL from work.
Rimfax|4.7.09 @ 11:15AM|#
Why am I constantly reminded of Stimpy guarding The History Eraser Button. ("...the jolly candy-like button...")
|4.7.09 @ 11:16AM|#
I've come to expect that even nobly conceived laws will be
manipulated and distorted for private ends.
You think, asshole?!? These people are
maddeningly--infuriatingly--stupid. And you know that even though
he says this, he'll support more "nobly conceived" laws and fuck us
all again over and over. Thanks, you naive piece of shit.
The Angry Optimist|4.7.09 @ 11:19AM|#
I'm not even willing to call him naive anymore, Episiarch. He's
seen what happens and, instead of doing the proper amount of
reflection and noting that these are inevitable consequences, he
seems to think that human nature and response to incentives is
going to magically change.
This is one place where the Objectivist epithet of "social
metaphysician" is useful. If we believe and try
hard enough, people will change.
the innominate one|4.7.09 @ 11:20AM|#
Epi - we're fucked no matter what, even in Libertopia, even in
Anarcho-Capitalist Utopia.
Hell is other people.
|4.7.09 @ 11:23AM|#
"If it's yellow, it's mellow; if it's brown, it goes down,"
is FrBunny's motto.
Yes, but in a totally racist way. Potty jokes are impolite.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:23AM|#
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
Time makes fools of us all, Hayes. Yet more so for liberals it
seems. I'm sure you have the perfect law to close this loophole
though. I'm sure it will go down the way you plan it too!
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:25AM|#
Innominate One,
Did you really just type Anarcho-Capitalist Utopia? Teh
AWESome!!!
|4.7.09 @ 11:26AM|#
And that might be one of the most distressing results of
decades of being told that government is the problem -- we hear a
story like Hayes', and think despondently, you know, they were
right, rather than squaring our shoulders and reapplying ourselves
to the wheel.
I think what he's saying here is that, no matter what the
demonstrated failures of state intervention, we must never allow
ourselves to become discouraged and pushing for more state
intervention.
IOW, he's insane.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:27AM|#
HEB,
I believe you mean this link, my friend. Pro LIb's links
are always safe for work.
|4.7.09 @ 11:30AM|#
It's amusing to me to watch the hippy-dippy types contort themselves. For instance, many of them hate the idea of Cap-and-Trade, because it *explicitly* recognizes the fact that pollution is going to take place. They think if they don't talk about it, it won't happen.
|4.7.09 @ 11:31AM|#
We may be fucked in every situation, but there are different
ways to get fucked. Doggy style, reverse anal cowgirl,
1984, Nazi Germany, missionary, theocracy, piledriver,
etc.
Some are better than others.
Xeones|4.7.09 @ 11:33AM|#
Naga, you've been warned about posting links. DON'T NOBODY CLICK ON THAT LINK.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:35AM|#
That link was clearly meant for HEB. Market failure on your parts! I'm tired of apoligizing for that link!
Menstrual Retardation|4.7.09 @ 11:36AM|#
Isn't diesel used in the production of cocaine? And if so, can the Mexican drug cartels take advantage of this tax break?
|4.7.09 @ 11:38AM|#
Naga's link merely weeds out the stupid and gullible, and those
who don't know how to kill process threads. It's Darwinian.
What about a Dirty Sanchez?
Spacedock, dude. That is all.
|4.7.09 @ 11:39AM|#
Has anyone been fired yet for getting rickrolled by Naga? He lives somewhere in Mississippi if you want righteous revenge.
|4.7.09 @ 11:42AM|#
the money comes from a transportation bill whose manifest
intent was to reduce dependence on fossil fuel
The "manifest intent" of the Patriot Act was to preserve our
freedom.
Have we learned anything?
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:42AM|#
BTW, no, I did not clicl Naga's link either. Maybe tonight, in the privacy of my own computing gear. Perhaps with my latest fantasy girlfriend.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:42AM|#
Pro Lib,
Biloxi, actually. For a little while anyway. Looks like the move to
Savannah is gonna happen after all.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:44AM|#
Looks like the move to Savannah is gonna happen after
all.
Savannah used to rock. Not sure what is going on there now. Haven't
been there in 12 years or so.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:46AM|#
NS,
Did you ever produce dueling evidence against me yesterday? I
forgot what thread we were on.
|4.7.09 @ 11:48AM|#
Savannah is nice.
I knew it was Biloxi, Naga, I just didn't want to contribute
directly to your untimely humiliation.
I hear it's hot in Biloxi. Africa hot. Can you take that kind of
heat?
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:49AM|#
Oh . . . it's coming back to me now. I didn't get a chance to finish my whole joke. I'm assuming from your comment that you posted some sort of reply such as the above?
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:51AM|#
Pro Lib,
My ability to weather heat comfortably is legendary. My uncle, a
former Ranger, broke down about the heat after Katrina. No power
for AC and lots of yardwork had him bitching up a storm. Me? Cool
as ice cream in January.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:52AM|#
Where did I get that phrase from? I can't place it but I know it was from a thread.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 11:54AM|#
NS,
My ability to weather heat comfortably is legendary. My uncle,
a former Ranger, broke down about the heat after Katrina. No power
for AC and lots of yardwork had him bitching up a storm. Me? Cool
as ice cream in January.
You are still trying to impress that Ninja chick aren't you?
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 11:55AM|#
True story dude. We were doing a shit load of yard work for friends and family too. He fought in the first Gulf War and got out right before that Mogadishu shit. Scary and tough. Exactly the way you don't won't your uncles to be.
Menstrual Retardation|4.7.09 @ 11:55AM|#
"Naga's link merely weeds out the stupid and gullible, and those
who don't know how to kill process threads"
Hoe DOES one kill process threads?
|4.7.09 @ 11:57AM|#
My ability to weather heat comfortably is
legendary.
Naga is Rand al'Thor? Thank Jeebus that rat bastard Jordan is
dead.
Menstrual Retardation|4.7.09 @ 11:57AM|#
"I knew it was Biloxi"
I rode my bike through Biloxi. That town smells like a fish
fart.
|4.7.09 @ 12:00PM|#
Hoe DOES one kill process threads?
In Windows, open the Task Manager (Ctrl-Shift-Esc) and go to the
Processes tab and kill whatever you want. Or just kill an
application (which can have multiple processes/threads) on the
Applications tab.
I forget how you do it for Mac and Linux right now.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 12:00PM|#
Epi you fool! He's not dead! Simply working on his new novel in secret. He's gonna pull that Tupac bit about being dead despite the introduction of new novels. It will drive sales.
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 12:05PM|#
NS,
Then perhaps you should stop tossing about careless accusations! So
there.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 12:09PM|#
Are you projecting? Are you hiding something? Then confess! Confess, TofuSushi!
High Every Body|4.7.09 @ 12:13PM|#
NS,
I don't see SF anyplace on this thread after 10:54am Eastern.
|4.7.09 @ 1:20PM|#
No. Citizen Nothing is Chuck Norris. The initials would tip off anyone even remotely sober.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 1:29PM|#
SugarFree,
Ah but you didn't expect me to be that clever did you? I'm
a light weight in these here parts.
|4.7.09 @ 1:33PM|#
You're not a lightweight. You just fill in at an awkward time, the transition between the HnR Morning Show, and the late-afternoon/early-evening Retard Roundtable. You don't get the fresh stories of the day, nor the incoherent troll flood of post-5pm EDT. It's hard work and you should be proud.
Naga Sadow|4.7.09 @ 1:50PM|#
Well, I gotta go. SugarFree, you may play with my Boba Fett action figure(mint condition!). But do not sully him in the dirt and mud or you shall face my wrath!
|4.7.09 @ 1:56PM|#
He shall learn a new defintion of pain deep in the belly of the Sarlacc. You have my word on it.
|4.7.09 @ 3:27PM|#
We may be fucked in every situation, but there are different
ways to get fucked. Doggy style, reverse anal cowgirl, 1984, Nazi
Germany, missionary, theocracy, piledriver, etc.
1984? Nazi Germany? I am intrigued ....
Caitlin|4.7.09 @ 4:10PM|#
As per the addendum made in 2006, it's not just for
transportation, and paper companies only started doing this in late
2008.
I work at a paper mill, and our emissions have actually gone down
since we started adding diesel (on the order of 0.1% by volume of
black liquor burned, which is not much). The addition of the diesel
increased our Btu values and therefore our efficiency. Our
emissions are actually a little better than they were before, and
we certainly haven't been violating our emissions permits.
Mills are using this money to keep afloat and keep people at work
(hopefully, get some others back to work, too), not for some
nefarious evil purpose. So get off your high horse unless you plan
to start signing all those paychecks.
Back to Work|4.7.09 @ 4:57PM|#
Mills are using this money to keep afloat and keep people at
work (hopefully, get some others back to work, too), not for some
nefarious evil purpose. So get off your high horse unless you plan
to start signing all those paychecks.
Sounds like we already are.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245