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We're Gonna Keep Americans in Their Homes...and Charge Them a 47% Tax Increase for the Privilege
As a lifelong renter, I have watched the slow-motion train wreck that is the housing-bubble reflation/bailout with the occasional pang of naked envy: I know for a fact that crooks, deadbeats, and irresponsible goofballs are going to be rewarded for their idiocy with my money, but it stings even harder knowing that I'm ineligible for the scam myself unless and until I buy a house with a federally guaranteed mortgage. Makes it almost tempting to strap on those shackles of a fixed 30-year contract.
That is, until you remember the flipside: If government thinks something as intimate as your own live-in private property is subject to massive wealth transfers in the name of assisting lower-income and minority families, sowing "stability," or preventing the "market failure" of prices coming back down to earth, then you better be damn well prepared for government to look at that same property as the solution to its own problems. Check out what's happening in the famously malgoverned city of Hoboken:
Hoboken's municipal tax levy skyrocketed when the city was taken over by the state of New Jersey because it failed to pass a 2008 municipal budget. To fill budget gaps and a deficit, the state doubled Hoboken's tax levy, from $34 million in fiscal year 2008 to $65 for fiscal year 2009. That sent the property taxes skyrocketing up 47 percent.
Who else is either raising property taxes or thinking about it?
The states of
Maryland and Utah;
Broward County, Pasco
County, and various other
Florida counties;
Loudoun County, West Virginia, and
Google knows
how many other tax-eating entities. Explains the anti-tax
National Center for Property Analysis [pdf]:
Some analysts have predicted that the recent declines in home prices could lead to budget crises for local governments that rely heavily on property tax revenue. "If property values continue falling, there will likely be a combination of three policies taken by local school districts," said [Tax Foundation economist Gerald] Prante. "They may raise property tax rates to replace the revenue, cut government spending, or simply ask for more financial assistance from state and federal governments."
A 2007 Tax Foundation study found that between 1982 and 2004, property taxes nationwide rose from $704 per person to $1,089 per person in 2004 inflation adjusted dollars.
Reason on property tax here.
ed|2.20.09 @ 9:55AM|#
Would renters be exempt? I imagine their landlords will simply pass along the added expense in the form of higher rents.
|2.20.09 @ 9:56AM|#
Well, I guess I'll have to turn in my libertarian decoder ring,
'cause I have to say, for a magazine called Reason, Reason magazine
has sucked ever since Virginia Postrel left, and I'm cancelling my
subscription because you people are not real
libertarians.
Drink up, bitches!
|2.20.09 @ 9:58AM|#
I'd like to point out that I asked about this just a few days
ago.
It was inevitable. But it's also a disaster.
Josh|2.20.09 @ 9:59AM|#
Add Iowa to the list of states looking to increase property taxes. Apparently Governor Culver isn't satisfied with just being in the bottom 10 of business-unfriendly environments. We want that bottom spot, baby!!
Matt Welch|2.20.09 @ 10:00AM|#
Would renters be exempt? I imagine their landlords will
simply pass along the added expense in the form of higher
rents.
Generally, no, but in my experience the kinds of places that would
see property-owners as cash machines are also the types that
"protect" renters from price hikes. Where I live, for example.
|2.20.09 @ 10:02AM|#
That is an interesting alternative way to look at the housing bubble. Perhaps the entire thing was driven by politicians desires to increase taxes.
|2.20.09 @ 10:16AM|#
Who else is either raising property taxes or thinking about
it? . . . . Loudon County, West Virginia, and Google knows how many
other tax-eating entities.
Sigh. That's "Loudoun" County, folks.
Other Matt|2.20.09 @ 10:26AM|#
Generally, no, but in my experience the kinds of places that
would see property-owners as cash machines are also the types that
"protect" renters from price hikes. Where I live, for
example.
That is true, the same areas that believe homeowners, utilities,
etc, are cash machines tend to protect renters. Also, they tend to
view "Multicultural festivals" and similar goofiness as the primary
use for tax dollars, and that developers should pay the cost of any
deferred maintenance that results from their priorities.
|2.20.09 @ 10:26AM|#
Deeper sigh. Loudoun county is in Virginia, NOT West Virginia,
although I admit that Welch's list was somewhat ambiguous. This
mistake was hilarious to those in the know since Loudoun is in the
"horse country" of Virginia -- where the money lives, and West
Virginia is famously impoverished.
And Matt, even if the property owner can't raise the rent to cover
the property tax increase, he's going to cut services.
Ultimately, renters will feel the bite of property tax increases
even though it may not be immediate or obvious.
|2.20.09 @ 10:27AM|#
because you people are not real libertarians
OK, I'll bite. Who is?
BTW, I'll drink tonight.
|2.20.09 @ 10:33AM|#
How can they be considering raising taxes in Md. when they
haven't finished loading in the increased property taxes from the
artificially increased value from the federally induced housing
bubble in the first place?
This must be where I thank them double-plus good for not only
screwing me, but giving me some good DP action on top of the first
screw.
|2.20.09 @ 10:38AM|#
Well, duh. Is he/she/it even human?
Damnit! Now I can't drink. You're going to have to do better than
that!
|2.20.09 @ 10:39AM|#
Generally, no, but in my experience the kinds of places that
would see property-owners as cash machines are also the types that
"protect" renters from price hikes. Where I live, for
example.
Well, then, you can expect to see the housing stock decline through
deferred maintenance, and a de facto moratorium on new rental
properties.
The same old eating-your-seed-corn, depletion of capital/social
reserves that lefty thinking always leads to.
Kolohe|2.20.09 @ 10:44AM|#
I imagine their landlords will simply pass along the added
expense in the form of higher rents.
As usual it depends on the market. Most places are seeing an
overall downward pressure on rents as their is an overall surplus
in housing stock and rising unemployment (so people are moving out
of the region). There are those previous homeowners that are now
renters, but they are for the most part by people trying to hold
onto their property to wait for the rebound and renting it out in
the meantime - even at negative cash flow (because of course it's
still less negative than having zero dollars coming in).
So depending on how loose the housing market is, landlords may have
to absorb the cost. (there is the side issue that many mutli-unit
residential developments are actually taxed at a commercial rate
rather than at a residential one)
|2.20.09 @ 10:45AM|#
Do not taunt the Loudouns. You wouldn't want them angry. They'll smack you around with one of their fake Georgian-style portico columns from their lavish 5,000 sq. ft. Ryland homes!
EJM|2.20.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Deeper sigh. Loudoun county is in Virginia, NOT West
Virginia, although I admit that Welch's list was somewhat
ambiguous. This mistake was hilarious to those in the know since
Loudoun is in the "horse country" of Virginia -- where the money
lives, and West Virginia is famously impoverished.
Loudoun
is also home to (most of) Dulles Airport and a
related high-tech corridor.
(Sorry, Matt, but I still see "West Virginia" in the post.)
Kolohe|2.20.09 @ 11:01AM|#
I can see how DC-Californian-French coastal elitist would make the West Virginia mistake; it's like how Manhattanites consider anything north of Yonkers 'upstate'.
ed|2.20.09 @ 11:01AM|#
renters will feel the bite of property tax
increases
My own rent has mirrored the housing bubble. At its height my lease
increased 15% in one year, but last November it was renewed without
an increase. And no, where I live "rent control" is a foreign term.
Not that there are not a few subsidized communities here and
there.
Dr. Duck|2.20.09 @ 11:05AM|#
Michigan has an interesting situation. Several years ago it
passed a property-tax reform initiative known as the Headlee
Amendment, which limited the year-to-year rate of property tax
increase to X% (I forget), absent a transfer or a reassessment due
to improvements.
For years, taxes have lagged well behind what they would have been
had they directly tracked assessed valuations.
When property values started to fall, homeowners still saw their
taxes go up, and up again the next year, because of the
differential that had built up from the Headlee limitation -- the
tax was still allowed to increase by that X%, since the allowable
increase had been well below the market for so long, and could now
catch up.
|2.20.09 @ 11:10AM|#
I live in Hoboken. I have been attending city council meetings - Here is a link to some awesome video from what goes on there. The lady being yelled at by the council woman is my friend, who had the temerity to propose cutting some of the 50% of the fire department who have upper management jobs.
|2.20.09 @ 11:11AM|#
BTW - thanks Matt Welch for bringing attention to my sorry town's sorry plight. We are well and truly fucked.
|2.20.09 @ 11:13AM|#
Ed, the city has made a special provision for landlords to pass a surcharge along to renters. So much for their lease contracts.
|2.20.09 @ 11:19AM|#
To take the cake - last council meeting they decided to study a "redevelopment" of 19 city blocks. I assume they will propose building luxury condominiums just to completely oversaturate the market and really push the bottom out. Oh, and they will be using Eminent domain. I live in a libertarian nightmare.
ed|2.20.09 @ 11:21AM|#
I look forward to President Teleprompter's renter bailout. What
will I get?
Hell, just being recognized as a human would be a start.
|2.20.09 @ 11:21AM|#
Domo,
Ouch. Sorry to hear of your plight.
Bravo to your friend for speaking out.
Adderall Apocalypse|2.20.09 @ 11:24AM|#
Yes. Hoboken is a shithole. We all remember the disastrous municipal response to the Great Chicken Emergency of 1977.
|2.20.09 @ 11:24AM|#
Wait a minute, guys! We can't raise property taxes, because that
would be in conflict with our goal of artificially propping up real
estate values (which is in conflict with our goal of unfreezing
credit markets, which is in conflict with our goal stabilizing
Fannie and Freddie, which is in conflict with…).
So what we really need to do here is develop a Federal bailout for
ALL municipalities in America and fund it with more Federal
borrowing. That way we can postpone the day of reckoning to at
least beyond the next election cycle. No reason to think the Ponzi
scheme has to unravel just yet. After all, the Japanese and Chinese
are still buying Treasuries! Or are they?
|2.20.09 @ 11:25AM|#
Tonio - she's a tough cookie. We've been working hard to shine a light on the crap that goes on. Unfortunately, the voter dynamic is a true "bread and circuses" clusterfuck. Homeowners are outraged - but they are only 20% of the votes - wheras the people in waaaay below market rate public housing are a lot more, and vote the worst possible panderers in again and again.
|2.20.09 @ 11:27AM|#
We all remember the disastrous municipal response to the
Great Chicken Emergency of 1977.
Pinkwater FTW.
ed|2.20.09 @ 11:28AM|#
Here is a link to some awesome video from what goes on
there
That was awesome. People sleepwalk through our council
meetings. I feel cheated somehow.
The Wine Commonsewer (you can |2.20.09 @ 11:31AM|#
Californicate's sole saving grace is Prop 13.
Otherwise we'd be the highest taxed serfs in the known world.
Loudoun is also home to (most of) Dulles Airport and a related
high-tech corridor.
I detest that airport.
The Wine Commonsewer (you can |2.20.09 @ 11:36AM|#
Well, then, you can expect to see the housing stock decline
through deferred maintenance, and a de facto moratorium on new
rental properties.
Agreed. Like where Matt lives. :-)
I've seen the DC housing stock on 50 heading out of DC to Maryland.
There is nothing, not even in the worst armpits of Los Angeles,
that can compare. Now, my Ma says they've cleaned it up a bit since
I was last there, so that observation may not be as valid as it
was.
The Medic|2.20.09 @ 11:41AM|#
They want to raise property tax by 13% here in Seattle WA.
As if I'm not taxed enough as it is. I pay 1200 a year to send
other peoples brats to a failing school system. outstanding.
We pay some of the highest fuel tax here as well.
Gotta love being taxed with out representation!
--
"The idea of achieving security through national armament is, at
the present state of military technique, a disastrous illusion."
-Albert Einstein
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
BDB|2.20.09 @ 11:43AM|#
"There is nothing, not even in the worst armpits of Los Angeles,
that can compare."
The worst I've ever seen is the housing you see from the windows of
the Amtrak when it goes through Baltimore. Looks like a third world
country.
|2.20.09 @ 11:48AM|#
TWC--A little, but not much. While its a far cry from 20 years ago, I still wouldn't walk around there at night. There are other spots in DC that have gentrified far more than the NY Ave. corridor.
|2.20.09 @ 11:49AM|#
The worst I've ever seen is the housing you see from the
windows of the Amtrak when it goes through Baltimore. Looks like a
third world country.
*Looks?*
Lynn|2.20.09 @ 11:53AM|#
"Makes it almost tempting to strap on those shackles of a fixed
30-year contract."
That's sure an odd perspective. Why do you find it preferable to
piss your money away in rent with nothing to show for it other than
access to shelter?
I own my house outright (no mortgage or home equity loan) and if I
had to fork over $1,500 on rent every month, I'd never stop
vomiting.
Instead of an annual outlay of $18,000 per year, with its
concomitant perpetual emesis, I am able to save and invest 40% of
my gross income and keep down my lunch.
hal|2.20.09 @ 11:58AM|#
""There is nothing, not even in the worst armpits of Los
Angeles, that can compare."
The worst I've ever seen is the housing you see from the windows of
the Amtrak when it goes through Baltimore. Looks like a third world
country."
DETROIT
|2.20.09 @ 11:59AM|#
I own my house outright (no mortgage or home equity loan)
and if I had to fork over $1,500 on rent every month, I'd never
stop vomiting.
What do you pay each month in property tax?
|2.20.09 @ 12:00PM|#
All government services are essential.
"We've gone over this budget with a fine-toothed comb, and there
just isn't anything left to cut."
|2.20.09 @ 12:05PM|#
It's absurd to think that renters are immune to property taxes. The effect is not as direct as "taxes go up, renters pay more immediately", but it's a cost of doing business, and it will get thrown in the mix with all the other factors that determine rents.
Lynn|2.20.09 @ 12:08PM|#
"What do you pay each month in property tax?"
approximately $150, which is a lot cheaper than $1,500.
|2.20.09 @ 12:10PM|#
Looks like a third world country.
Looks? The Wire has a lot of truth about Charm City. Heck,
O'Malley won the governorship of MD with an ad campaign of "When I
came in, Baltimore was really shitty. It still pretty much sucks,
but, hey, it's getting better" (paraphrased).
OTOH, if the rates are going up on homes that are valued at less
than they were, that doesn't mean that the overall tax payments
have to go up much. Sure, people feel poorer because of the value
of their homes, but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're paying
a greater percentage of their income in taxes.
So that by itself isn't the fundamental problem. The problem is
more that people let their taxes up to pay for more services when
they felt wealthy because their home prices kept increasing.
I assume they will propose building luxury condominiums just to completely oversaturate the market and really push the bottom out.
The sad thing is, the market isn't oversaturated. Not in
California, not in Northern Virginia, not in any of the bubble
markets. Prices are down, yes, but prices are still far above where
they would be in an unregulated housing market. (And where they are
in relatively unregulated housing markets, such as in much of TX
and NC.) Eminent domain is bad, but so is zoning and land-use
restrictions. Prices need to fall even further.
|2.20.09 @ 12:11PM|#
The Hoboken tax levy on a 500k assessed home could be 3000k/year or 20k - depending on if you are friends with the mayor.
ed|2.20.09 @ 12:15PM|#
How about repairs, Lynn? Landscaping expenses? Water bill? I doubt your home is free. Not that you are not to be commended for having and paying for one.
waldo|2.20.09 @ 12:16PM|#
when we keep spending ridiculous amounts of money on things like
The war in Iraq and
Afghanistan we need to get the money from somewhere. Cut
funding, Cut this, Cut that.
Wait, you say things aren't cut? Well as everything starts to cost
more, and the government doesn't pay out more to the original
parties, TADA! Same thing again.
Jordan|2.20.09 @ 12:18PM|#
"What do you pay each month in property tax?"
approximately $150, which is a lot cheaper than $1,500.
What the hell? Seriously, please explain.
Matt Welch|2.20.09 @ 12:19PM|#
That's sure an odd perspective. Why do you find it
preferable to piss your money away in rent with nothing to show for
it other than access to shelter?
It's mostly about flexibility. My take-home pay has fluctuated
violently my whole life, so I'd rather not fix a (high) monthly
cost into the unknown future. Among other things, that would change
my approach to work, and I don't want to do that. Also, renting has
allowed me to live in neighborhoods in both L.A. and D.C. that I'd
never be able to afford as a buyer.
But I'm idiosyncratic about money stuff. Never made a car payment,
never had more than maybe 10% of my money in equities, and so
on.
ecnomsit|2.20.09 @ 12:20PM|#
waldo,
Most of the posters here want to end the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan. We also want to cut domestic spending. We're
consistent.
Besides, every good leftist like yourself knows that government
spending doesn't have to efficient, just stimulating. And there's
nothing more stimulating than a war!
|2.20.09 @ 12:22PM|#
approximately $150, which is a lot cheaper than
$1,500.
Where the hell do you live? Alaska?
ed|2.20.09 @ 12:26PM|#
Also, renting has allowed me to live in neighborhoods...I'd
never be able to afford as a buyer
I agree 100%. I live in a city (Boca Raton) that's full of
millionaires, and I reap all the rewards (low crime, clean streets,
no bums, great restaurants) without having to pay the expenses.
Yes, I'm a leach, a half-mile from the beach.
|2.20.09 @ 12:27PM|#
Real estate ownership is not an automatic wealth creator. IMO,
if one invests solely on the basis of expected appreciation, one
had better be a damn good market timer and have some luck as
well.
There are real estate investors who claim that they would not
bother unless the property in question has both (1) a positve cash
flow and (2) a decent cash on cash return.
Lynn|2.20.09 @ 12:35PM|#
How about repairs, Lynn? Landscaping expenses? Water bill? I
doubt your home is free.
Water: $80/mo
Nat Gas $150/mo
Electric: $65/mo
Total Util: $295
Prop Tax: $150/mo
Grand Total $445/mo
So as long as I don't spend more than another $1,055/month on
maintenence, I figure I'm ahead of the game were I a renter.
"approximately $150, which is a lot cheaper than $1,500."
Minneapolis (and that's $150/month or $1800/year)
"Also, renting has allowed me to live in neighborhoods in both L.A.
and D.C. that I'd never be able to afford as a buyer."
I can understand that. Ten years ago I lived in a rental property
in Atlanta's Druid Hills neighborhood. Starter houses were selling
for about $800K. $3-5M homes were common. I could never have lived
there as a home owner. But I could walk my dog at 3:00 am.
Lynn|2.20.09 @ 12:49PM|#
"If that's your idea of a good time ;-)"
Actually, it is.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=420930771
Skeleton|2.20.09 @ 1:18PM|#
I live in Hoboken too...for those of you complaining about $1500 for property tax, mine should be about $24k this year after the increase (our schools spend $26k per student). For an apartment. That's not even that big. But since the city does not reassess properties in order to protect the people who were born and raised there, the newcomers foot the bills. What a 1 square mile city with less that 50,000 people needs a $100 million budget for, I don't know--other than padding people's pockets.
robc|2.20.09 @ 1:37PM|#
Druid Hills
Weird question for anyone reading this thread:
When I lived in the ATL, I used to refer to Druid Hills as "Doodad
Hills". It was some sort of 80s pop culture reference (the Smurfs
maybe?) but I dont remember what reference. And yet I still cant
read Druid Hills without thinking Doodad Hills. Anyone able to help
out? Where did that come from? Its going to drive me crazy.
|2.20.09 @ 1:45PM|#
was talking (yelling) with Beth Mason the other night about her inane plans for redevelopment of the western edge - it emerged that the last property re-val was in 1988.
Jordan|2.20.09 @ 1:49PM|#
I live in Hoboken too...for those of you complaining about $1500 for property tax, mine should be about $24k this year after the increase (our schools spend $26k per student). For an apartment. That's not even that big.
Sweet jebus! Why the hell do you still live there?
|2.20.09 @ 1:51PM|#
Sweet jebus! Why the hell do you still live
there?
cheaper than Manhattan, and short commute - once upon a time it was
relatively easy to make 3-400k on wall street.
|2.20.09 @ 1:55PM|#
cheaper than Manhattan, and short commute
Wrong, sucker. You just have to find the right deal.
|2.20.09 @ 1:59PM|#
I could live in Manhattan and find a cheaper place - but my commute would likely be just as long unless I got very lucky. That said, I may move and do exactly that.
|2.20.09 @ 2:14PM|#
RC Dean
It's 20k for the yuppies who bought during the last 5 years - maybe
20% of the population. They pay the bills for the other 80% who pay
practically nothing.
|2.20.09 @ 2:20PM|#
Holy shit, Skeleton. The tax burden in Hoboken is $20,000 a
head?
RC, I was paying $10,000 a year in Orange County, which is an hour
and a half north of Manhattan.
I could live in Manhattan and find a cheaper place - but my
commute would likely be just as long unless I got very lucky. That
said, I may move and do exactly that.
Dude, the Upper East Side has express buses specifically for Wall
St. And these are the comfortable Greyhound type buses, and not the
M2. Just a few dollars more.
Naga Sadow as A Pimp Named Sli|2.20.09 @ 2:31PM|#
Ho? Ho Broken?
*recites prayer*
"Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch. And guide my pimp
hand and make it strong, Lord. So that she might learn a ho's
place. Amen."
Kolohe|2.20.09 @ 2:32PM|#
Based on the military housing allowance calculator, it's more
expensive to rent in Hoboken than in Honolulu.
Wow.
Gurgle, Gurgle|2.20.09 @ 2:34PM|#
The Obama Markets: On Election Day 2008, the Dow Jones Industrial Average closed at 9,625.On Inauguration Day 2009, the DJIA closed at 7,949.09.Today the Dow is at 7,342. Make him stop!!!
|2.20.09 @ 2:46PM|#
domoarrigato-1:53
Don't be so modest! What, are you afraid that the IRS monitors
these here boards?
Paul|2.20.09 @ 2:50PM|#
Some analysts have predicted that the recent declines in home prices could lead to budget crises for local governments that rely heavily on property tax revenue.
Yeah, absolutely 100% untrue. The government is in control of tax
assessments, and they can assess the value of your house at
whatever they want. The county raised the value of my home
$58,000 in a down-market year. I can't imagine how much it'll go up
next year.
|2.20.09 @ 2:51PM|#
domo, do you want to shit your pants?
I had a three room apartment at 84th and York. The kitchen was
huge, and had a large window leading out to the roof of the laundry
next door, which therefore functioned as a huge porch. The
apartment was about 75 feet long (all three rooms in a row) and
overlooked York.
The rent? Started at $1300/month. I shit you not.
Paul|2.20.09 @ 3:07PM|#
The rent? Started at $1300/month. I shit you not.
Dude... what year?
I was paying $1,400 a month for a two bedroom apartment in Seattle
in 1998 with a view of the parking lot. Was it a rent control
apartment?
|2.20.09 @ 3:11PM|#
libertymike,
Back in the day, that was the plan - but the Bear Stearns
merger/failure derailed my plans somewhat...
|2.20.09 @ 3:15PM|#
It was 1997. It was not rent controlled.
In NYC, landlords are supposed to have their phone number displayed
in the lobby. I wanted out of my shitty studio on 79th, and there
was no fucking way I was going to pay a broker fee. So I walked up
and down 80th through 85th and wrote down the number of every place
that looked ok. I then called every number and asked if they had
anything available.
90% said "no" or "we go through brokers only". But a few said
"yeah, we have something". The first one I went to was the one. At
first I thought the kitchen was the whole place, and then I saw the
archway leading to the other two rooms and said "I want it
NOW."
The reason it was so cheap is that the owner was not doing the
renting. He had hired some shitty firm to do that and they just
didn't seem to care any more, so the guy just threw $1300 out and I
grabbed it. The landlord fired that firm soon after, for obvious
reasons.
That place used to blow people's minds.
Other Matt|2.20.09 @ 3:15PM|#
O'Malley won the governorship of MD with an ad campaign of
"When I came in, Baltimore was really shitty. It still pretty much
sucks, but, hey, it's getting better" (paraphrased).
And subsequently it was shown that he cooked the data to arrive at
that conclusion. Just for record purposes. Technically his Chief of
Police took the fall for him, if you're a real purist. I guess it's
better than the current mayor, though, who has current legal
issues.
|2.20.09 @ 3:36PM|#
nice one. based on your description, I'd bet it rents for
6-7k today.
Whoa, have rentals skyrocketed since I was there? Based on old
estimates I would have said 3-4K max. The layout isn't great
because it's all a straight line, there was very little closet
space, and very little counter space in the kitchen (though it was
so big I just added a butcher block counter and a portable
dishwasher with butcher block top). But it sure had square
footage.
It was renovated as soon as I moved out, though, to jack the rent
even more.
|2.20.09 @ 3:41PM|#
My buddy used to rent a place low 70's and lex - it was a rodent infested shithole - about 500 sf with disgusting appliances. he paid 3200/mo. He did have outdoor space, though it was so run down, you wouldn't want to hang out back there.
|2.20.09 @ 3:56PM|#
Listening to you guys and your hideously bad and overpriced
urban real estate makes me want to get home, pour something old and
Scottish, fire up a stogie, and hang on the wraparound porch,
enjoying the sunset over the Concho River valley while the deer
sneak onto my yard to eat acorns under the live oaks.
May need a light sweater, seeing as its the dead of winter and
all.
|2.20.09 @ 3:57PM|#
Low 70s and Lex is more expensive because of the proximity to
the subway. I had no vermin, though. Some electrical issues but I
threatened the landlord and he fixed them.
My suggestion to anyone is to do what I did in the neighborhood you
think you want to live in. But you've got to be ready for a lot of
failed calls and going back out and walking more blocks for more
numbers.
THIS IS FUCKED UP!!!|2.20.09 @ 4:10PM|#
Executive Order: Establishment of the White House Office of
Urban Affairs
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Executive-Order-Establishment-of-the-White-House-Office-of-Urban-Affairs/
REALLY!!!|2.20.09 @ 4:14PM|#
Sec. 3. Functions. The principal functions of the Office are, to
the extent permitted by law:
(b) to coordinate all aspects of urban policy
jtuf|2.20.09 @ 4:19PM|#
Hoboken can't make ends meet!? WFT That town is all upper middle class yuppies who work in Downtown and Midtown. Oh, wait, now I see. It's a ramification of the banking sector lay offs.
|2.20.09 @ 4:25PM|#
jtuf,
That town is all upper middle class yuppies
Only from sinatra drive to willow street - west of there is pretty
much section 8.
skeleton|2.20.09 @ 4:39PM|#
I should say that I'm not 100% sure yet what my tax bill is
yet--the city hasn't finished assessing. It was supposed to be 16k
but now with the increase, we'll see if that sticks or not.
Domo - no I haven't posted before, but I read this all the
time.
jtuf - for every tax bill like mine there is someone in Hoboken
(like a local city council member, for example) paying about $900
in taxes.
Jordan - I did just buy a new place and I really like it. My old
place had taxes of 8k from when I bought about 6 years ago. I have
to live somewhere and I don't want a long commute to NYC. If I sold
my place, I'd take a hit on it now and just as everything got done,
the tax increase came. Moving in Hoboken basically means that you
have to pay more taxes.
The city is required to do a reval every 10 years, but the last one
done was 1988. I think that every new property owner should file a
property tax challenge until they do it.
|2.20.09 @ 4:50PM|#
Good luck. I post here all the time. also at Hoboken411 under a different nick. I've been active with LowerHobokenTaxes.com, and with Hoboken Revolt. I hope you get involved and help fight this thing. I fear there will be no acceptable mayoral candidate - Dawn Z is probably my favorite so far - but far from perfect.
skeleton|2.20.09 @ 5:01PM|#
I post over at H411 sometimes. I'm trying to get everyone to vote in this election, but like you say, it's tough to figure out who to vote for in this town. I voted for Roberts way back when, since he wasn't Russo and look what that got us. Ugh, an 8th grader who has taken a civics class could govern Hoboken more effectively than any of the putzes we have there now.
|2.20.09 @ 5:09PM|#
Cool, well im outa here for the day - keep in touch - you can find me at lowerhobokentaxes.com - im on the steering committee there.
robc|2.20.09 @ 5:52PM|#
Epi's apartment was cheap?
I read his description and thought, damn, that is expensive.
|2.20.09 @ 6:29PM|#
Would renters be exempt? I imagine their landlords will
simply pass along the added expense in the form of higher
rents.
If they can. The market sets rents, not landlords, and I know
plenty of Florida residential landlords who have been squeezed to
death by massive increases in property taxes.
|2.20.09 @ 8:50PM|#
Matt Welch,
Hat's off to you for always being a renter.
I succumbed to the lure of the Peter Principle and was a homeowner
back during the mid-70's.
Hated it!
Steadily rising property values is one thing (as a goal), but
otherwise talented folks doing their own lawn care?
Oh, the humanity!
People need to be mingling; not diddling with their "nest."
|2.20.09 @ 11:10PM|#
One of the things I am especially enjoying about this crash is
being able to express my disgust with the federal government
through my financial decisions.
They want me to buy a house and be in hock to them via some bank
intermediary? Fuck that, I've got ten years of rent saved up and
I'm not buying even so much as a shack in Arkansas until they let
the market clear.
They want me to have faith in their bailouts of the banking system?
Fuck that, I'm taking as much as I can *out* of the banking system
and putting it in T-bill funds and puts on the same companies they
want me to patronize and support with my tax dollars.
They want me to believe in a fiat dollar and benevolent central
bank tinkering from now to eternity? Fuck that, I've got a little
portion of my net worth in precious metals and firearms so I won't
be one of the ones left without a chair if the music stops on that
con game all of a sudden.
The Total State|2.22.09 @ 12:26PM|#
Graphite,
You apparently don't understand the value of the collective spirit.
You are being most uncooperative. Stay where you are. Agents will
be there shortly to educate you on the duty of citizens to The
State.
Jennifer|2.22.09 @ 4:56PM|#
Thank God for the housing bubble; without it I might well have
bought a house a few years back, before I realized how monstrous
property taxes are in my state. If my three-bedroom apartment were
an identical condo, the property taxes I'd have to pay each month
would only be about $100 a month less than what I pay now in rent.
And of course, there would be condo fees, and I'd be responsible
for repairs and winter shoveling and all the other owner
responsibilities.
A couple towns over from me, the *average* property tax bill is
over $600 per *month.* (That's wasn't a typo: six hundred dollars
per month.) And when revaluations happen, you can find your tax
bill increasing by several hundred dollars a month overnight.
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