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I Learned It From Watching You, Dad!
According to ABC News political correspondent Brian Ross, "Senate Candidate #5," the unnamed public official who, according to wiretaps of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, would fork over a cool million dollars to be named successor to President-elect Obama in the Senate, is Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.
According to the FBI affidavit in the case, Blagojevich "stated he might be able to cut a deal with Senate Candidate 5 that provided ROD BLAGOJEVICH" with something "tangible up front."
Jackson Jr. said this morning he was contacted yesterday by federal prosecutors in Chicago who he said "asked me to come in and share with them my insights and thoughts about the selection process."
Jackson Jr. said "I don't know" when asked if he was Candidate #5, but said he was told "I am not a target of this investigation."
[...]
"Senate Candidate #5" played a key role in the Governor's efforts to obtain something of value in exchange for the Senate appointment, according to the FBI affidavit.
According to the affidavit, Blagojevich threatened to appoint Senate Candidate #5 if President-elect Barack Obama refused to help get his wife on "paid corporate boards right now."
"If they feel like they can do this and not f***ing give me anything…then I'll f***ing go [to Senate Candidate 5]."
All the sordid details are here.
|12.10.08 @ 11:53AM|#
Please, PLEASE tell me that sponsored links in the middle of a post is just an internet fuckup and not some sort of revenue enhancement feature at Hit & Run.
|12.10.08 @ 11:55AM|#
A member of the Jackson family unethically or illegally cutting
a self serving deal that benefits only himself?
Say it ain't so, Jesse!
Naga Sadow|12.10.08 @ 11:56AM|#
What the fuck? Is that an AD in the middle of an article? Whatever bros . . .
Naga Sadow|12.10.08 @ 11:57AM|#
Anyway . . . is JJ jr. a bizarro world cross of civil rights leader and con artist like his dad?
PC|12.10.08 @ 12:02PM|#
And I always thought the Jackson family was only good at shakedowns. In the end I might still be right.
|12.10.08 @ 12:09PM|#
Y'know, it would be nice if we had some sort of regular Democratic shill, a blue team spimmeister here at H&R to expolain how this is only an aberration of Dem politics. That the donkey party really cares about the little people and aren't just in it for the power and the dineros. Unlike the GOP.
Red Stater|12.10.08 @ 12:11PM|#
Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick! We elected someone who climbed to the top of the Chicago cess poll, and the country will pay the price. Blago is a crook just like Rezko, and they both know Obama. Drip, drip, drip...
|12.10.08 @ 12:11PM|#
Jackson Jr. said this morning he was contacted yesterday by
federal prosecutors in Chicago who he said "asked me to come in and
share with them my insights and thoughts about the selection
process."
So, Congressman: do you have any thoughts on who would make a good
appointment to the Senate? And also, do you mind if we check your
freezer?
|12.10.08 @ 12:13PM|#
Given the political culture of Illinois, with its corruption
complex of large invasive government, a patronage system and
powerful public unions, I think we will see a lot of scandals from
the state dogging Obama throughout his term.
I am sure that Republicans at the national level will put money
into digging up any dirt in the state they can find. Even if Obama
isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought with him from Illinois
is to some degree. It's simply to hard to do politics in the state
without getting one's hand's dirty.
|12.10.08 @ 12:14PM|#
Question: why weren't the Senate candidates named in the
indictment?
Question: do you suppose JJ Jr's testimony would be sufficiently
valuable that it would be worth immunizing him and letting him
walk?
Question: if JJ Jr is immunized and testifies that he was part of a
scheme to buy the Senate seat, does that help him or hurt him in
Illinois politics?
|12.10.08 @ 12:14PM|#
J sub D,
Ha ha! Maybe if you didn't have such a strong narrative about the
parties in your head, this wouldn't keep happening to you.
Red Stater | December 10, 2008, 12:11pm | #
Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick!
You mean the guy who Blagalphabet keeps ranting and swearing about
because he won't commit corrupt acts?
You know, there's an easy way to tell the difference between people
who are genuinely concerned about political corruption, and those
who throw around accusations for partisan purposes. The former make
a big deal of distinguishing between corrupt people and honest
people, and the latter go out of their way to blur the lines
between them.
|12.10.08 @ 12:15PM|#
Oh noes! The fucking ads embedded in the post are
changing. It's a revenue enhancement feature.
Nick, make the bad people with advertisements go aweay. At least
move them back to the margins where I can ignore them.
I'm beggiong here.
LGF Fan|12.10.08 @ 12:16PM|#
RezkoAyersWrightBlago. RezkoAyersWrightBlago. RezkoAyersWrightBlago....I mean it worked wonderfully as an election strategy, so let's continue it!
|12.10.08 @ 12:17PM|#
Even if Obama isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought
with him from Illinois is to some degree.
Who has he brought with him from Illinois? Something I've found odd
is just how few hangers-on from his Chicago days are getting jobs
in the Obama adminstration.
Valerie Jarrett and David Axelrod are the only names I can think
of.
|12.10.08 @ 12:17PM|#
joe,
Whatever made you think I was referring to anybody in particular?
Especially you?
|12.10.08 @ 12:19PM|#
BDB | December 10, 2008, 12:16pm | #
Is this going to be Whitewater for the 2010s?
Imagine an alternate Whitewater, where the McDougals are caught on
FBI tape cussing out Bill and Hillary because they wouldn't play
ball..
Oh, and in this universe, Bill can keep it in his pants.
sage|12.10.08 @ 12:21PM|#
Who has he brought with him from Illinois?
Isn't his chief of staff from there?
|12.10.08 @ 12:21PM|#
J sub D | December 10, 2008, 12:17pm | #
joe,
Whatever made you think I was referring to anybody in particular?
Especially you?
Because I have an IQ that's above room temperature?
Because half your posts these days consist of whining about what a
terrible partisan I am?
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:22PM|#
But yeah, it's pretty clear the biggest loser in this besides Blago himself is JJ Jr.
|12.10.08 @ 12:23PM|#
sage,
Isn't his chief of staff from there?
Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month explaining,
is a Clintonite.
Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not in
the local political machine.
|12.10.08 @ 12:24PM|#
Now if JJ Jr. would only refer to Chicago as "Polacktown", everything would be perfect.
Naga Sadow|12.10.08 @ 12:25PM|#
On a somewhat related note: OJ's four accomplices walk away with . . . probation!
sage|12.10.08 @ 12:26PM|#
Why is that related, Naga. You saying Obama was involved with armed robbery and kidnapping?
|12.10.08 @ 12:27PM|#
Because I have an IQ that's above room
temperature?
Debatable.
Because half your posts these days consist of whining about
what a terrible partisan I am?
Typical joe exagerration. I take an occasional shot at partisans
wearing blinders, you included. Does it disturb your Wa?
|12.10.08 @ 12:29PM|#
"Senate Candidate #5," the unnamed public official who,
according to wiretaps of Gov. Rod Blagojevich, would fork over a
cool million dollars to be named successor to President-elect Obama
in the Senate
It's an investment which will pay a handsome return; I say "Go for
it."
Being an at-large "Reverend" apparently pays better than I ever
imagined.
|12.10.08 @ 12:31PM|#
The fucking ads embedded in the post are changing. It's a
revenue enhancement feature.
AdMan smash puny pop-up blocker!
|12.10.08 @ 12:32PM|#
Obama would have done better to say he'd discussed the senate seat with Blago, but Blago insanely wanted something for the appointment. Instead he lied about not having any contact with him, which will be proven false by the end of the day. Pretty shitty judgement by the soon to be leader of the semi-free world.
|12.10.08 @ 12:34PM|#
joe,
Who has he brought with him from Illinois?
A lot of people on his campaign staff came from the state. I guess
we will have to see who actually gets into his administration.
Perhaps Obama will avoid appointments from his home state just a
prophylactic measure. That would be smart.
The problem for Obama is that he has to appoint hundreds of people
and that gives the Republicans hundreds of targets. Worse, people
think that were there is smoke there is fire. Just keeping a steady
stream of scandal stories coming out of the state will create the
impression that Obama is dirty because he comes from a dirty
political culture.
Naga Sadow|12.10.08 @ 12:34PM|#
sage,
I said "somewhat". The relation being that JJ jr should be indicted
but I don't think JJ jr will get indicted. I was just reading an
article on OJ Simpson. Simpson gets 15 years, the four accomplices
got . . . probation.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Is it just me or are Democratic scandals usually way more entertaining than Republican ones?
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:36PM|#
"sage | December 10, 2008, 12:35pm | #
Ask Larry Craig."
Monicagate and Spizter > Larry Craig in entertainment value.
Read the Starr Report again.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:39PM|#
And non sex scandal to non sex scandal. I mean, Ted Stevens or Blago? There's no comparison.
Syd Henderson|12.10.08 @ 12:39PM|#
There's also speculation that #5 is Emil Jones, so don't convict JJ quite yet.
|12.10.08 @ 12:40PM|#
Shannon,
A lot of people on his campaign staff came from the state.
Right, of course, every candidate does. Think of Rove and
Hughes.
The thing is, very few of those people seem to be getting
appointments this time, compared to past presidents. Jim Baker, Old
Bush's campaign manager, got Secretary of State
ferchrissakes.
Of a piece with this is the relatively few positions he's giving to
national political supporters. Hillary gets Secretary of State,
after trashing him throughout the campaign, while John Kerry stays
in the Senate. It looks like Caroline Kennedy's work for him is
earning her more points with David Patterson than with Obama!
It's unusual how little he's using his position to reward people
with appointments. Maybe, as you suggest, he's bending over
backwards to do the opposite, and avoid the taint of cronyism,
specifically because being from Chicago opens him up to such
charges.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:41PM|#
If it's Emil Jones that isn't good for Obama, they were old allies. He better hope its JJ Jr.
creech|12.10.08 @ 12:42PM|#
What's the big deal about this? We already had the advance auction of stolen goods...the election.
|12.10.08 @ 12:43PM|#
I mean, Ted Stevens or Blago? There's no
comparison.
Duke Cunningham asking for fancy antique furniture on a bribe menu
vs. Blago saying, quote, "I want money." On tape.
Now, writing up a bribe menu is a pretty sweet detail, but I've
gotta go with the Chicato pol's wife saying "Don't give them shit!
Fuck them!" in the thick accent in the background of an tapped
phone call.
|12.10.08 @ 12:43PM|#
Monicagate and Spizter > Larry Craig in entertainment
value. Read the Starr Report again.
Agreed. Wide stances don't even compare to stained dresses and
paying extra to screw sans condoms.
Even this one is better than GOP bribery scandals. Selling a senate
seat outright is far jucier than the run of the mill corruption of
Randy Cunningham and Ted Stevens.
|12.10.08 @ 12:43PM|#
Is it just me or are Democratic scandals usually way more
entertaining than Republican ones?
The most entertaining ones are the ones that involve staggering
hypocrisy or over-the-top brazenness. Spitzer involved both. Blago
involves the latter. Craig the former.
But you remember Spitzer and Blago better because they were
camera/exposure whores.
|12.10.08 @ 12:45PM|#
Joe, it wasn't but two weeks ago that you insisted Obama would be bringing plenty of his people from Chicago. Kind of changing your tune a little, now?
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Agreed. Wide stances don't even compare to stained dresses and paying extra to screw sans condoms.
The biggest laugh-out-loud moment of Monicagate for me was when you
got to see the sitting President being asked on TV if he had phone
sex with Monica by a lawyer, and responding "Well I think at least
in general terms it..." and being promptly interrupted by the
lawyer with a long technical definition of what constitutes phone
sex.
I don't think any other scandal will have a moment quite like
that.
|12.10.08 @ 12:46PM|#
"If they feel like they can do this and not f***ing give me anything…then I'll f***ing go [to Senate Candidate 5]."
If he said "I'll f***ing go Jackson", maybe he meant
Michael Jackson. I'm not saying it's likely, but
it is a far bigger threat.
|12.10.08 @ 12:49PM|#
It was? I don't remember that.
I think maybe you're confusing "from Chicago" with "Chicago machine
pols." If you look at people like Rahm or Jarrett or Axelrod,
they're longtime Obama supporters, but they're not really Daley
machine, Chicago machine people.
I remember writing that his most natural friends from back home
were the people at the University of Chicago Law School, who would
make the most sense as judicial nominees.
|12.10.08 @ 12:50PM|#
Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month
explaining, is a Clintonite.
And being a Clintonite, as we all know, is a solid-gold guarantee
that you are clean as a whistle. Got it, joe.
Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not
in the local political machine.
And being a product of the Beltwya is a solid-gold guarantee,
etc.
It's unusual how little he's using his position to reward
people with appointments.
Its a little early for the cheerleading. He hasn't announced but a
handful of appointments yet; we still have hundreds to go.
On the topic of appointments, BTW, I would give up next year's
rather substantial raise for the privilege of reading a SCOTUS
decision saying, sorry, Hillary, the Emoluments Clause means what
it says, you can't be Secretary of State. Sorry you gave up your
Senate seat for an unconstitutional appointment.
|12.10.08 @ 12:50PM|#
I don't think any other scandal will have a moment quite
like that.
See - definition of "is"
|12.10.08 @ 12:52PM|#
Joe, you're delusional to believe anyone successful in Chicago politics is not a Daily machine type.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:53PM|#
James, I thought the Clintons were behind all of this? So Clintonites are part of the Daley Machine, and the Daley Machine is Clintonian?
|12.10.08 @ 12:54PM|#
I wouldn't doubt the Daily's and the Rodhams go way back. And there was a Daily in the Clinton administration, after all.
|12.10.08 @ 12:55PM|#
RC, shifting goal posts as always:
And being a Clintonite, as we all know, is a solid-gold
guarantee that you are clean as a whistle. Got it, joe...And being
a product of the Beltwya is a solid-gold guarantee,
etc.
Could you please point out the part where anyone was talking about
"clean as a whistle?" Here, let me help you out - it doesn't exist.
This is a discussion about Obama's appointments of political
backers from back home.
Its a little early for the cheerleading. He hasn't announced
but a handful of appointments yet; we still have hundreds to
go. Sure, but we can draw apples-to-apples comparisons based
on the picks he's made so far. Look at Commerce Secretaries -
traditionally a dumping ground for political cronies, he appointed
Bill Richardson.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 12:56PM|#
Now, if we could some how combine the seediest, most
entertaining elements of tawdry redneck Arkansas with big city
Chicago machine politics in one package, THAT would make an
entertaining scandal to remember!
Too bad the dream ticket idea never took of!
Syd Henderson|12.10.08 @ 12:57PM|#
I still think the most entertaining recent scandal Jim McGreevey's in New Jersey. Although Spitzer's is the most satisfying.
|12.10.08 @ 12:58PM|#
James Ard,
Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley
Machine. He made his bones in DC, as part of the Clinton White
House, THEN went back to Chicago.
Your argument is like saying that Deval Patrick is a Beacon Hill
Democrat.
|12.10.08 @ 12:59PM|#
James Ard | December 10, 2008, 12:54pm | #
I wouldn't doubt the Daily's and the Rodhams go way back. And there
was a Daily in the Clinton administration, after all.
It's like the Kennedy assassination people. There's no such thing
as evidence that refutes the thesis; everything either proves it,
or adds a new wrinkle.
Mike Huckabee|12.10.08 @ 1:00PM|#
Hey Oprah, did you see me on the Daily Show last night? I'm going to give you a run for your money.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:00PM|#
"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 12:58pm | #
BDB, that's what we got in 1992."
Nah, we only got the tawdry redneck Arkansas part.
Think of Monicagate, except with audio tapes of Bill Clinton
discussing selling cabinet positions while getting blown and
dropping F-bombs every other sentence. That's what it would look
like, more or less.
Gilbert Martin|12.10.08 @ 1:00PM|#
"Just wait. Superman's cape is dipped in Chicago ick!"
Well he IS a liberal democrat.
That automatically makes him guilty of everything until proven
innocent.
That is the natural order of the universe.
|12.10.08 @ 1:01PM|#
Fucking an A, you don't think Hillary got on that Watergate commission on looks alone.
|12.10.08 @ 1:01PM|#
James,
I'm asking nicely. Pretty please, lay out your theory about
Clinton/Obama/Richardson and the 2008 presidential election.
C'mon, do it for the kids.
Syd Henderson|12.10.08 @ 1:01PM|#
Although Blagojevich can have make a 10 on a 1-10 if he has a mistress and appoints her to the Senate seat. He doesn't seem likeable enough to have a mistress for a reasonable rate.
|12.10.08 @ 1:03PM|#
Good point, Syd.
He does seem stupid enough to think he could get away with cheating
on a Chicago Alderman's daughter, though.
|12.10.08 @ 1:04PM|#
From a
WaPo op-ed -
Illinois holds the nation's highest gubernatorial incarceration rate. Three of the past eight governors have spent time in jail or prison. Blagojevich would bring the number to four.
|12.10.08 @ 1:05PM|#
People only walk around with a toupee like that if they are
seriously deluded about what other people are able to figure
out.
This guy thought nobody knew he had a rug, just like he thought
nobody would catch on to his crimes, just like he thought he was
going to be a serious presidential candidate.
One of the features of sociopathology is an inability to imagine
what's going on in other people's heads.
|12.10.08 @ 1:06PM|#
Joe, John Edwards was Hillary's only viable rival running in the primary. By putting up candidates that would draw from him, it made Hillary's chances much better. That one of her stooges actually beat her doesn't matter, she'll get a lot richer working behind the scenes. Obama could get plenty of experienced people without tapping Bill Clinton's most loyal inner circle.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:08PM|#
Hillary attacked Obama non-stop, kicked and dragged and screamed
until she was forced out of the primary in June, and she was really
a "stooge"?
You can say a lot of things about Hillary, but I've never heard
someone suggest she never really wanted to be President or didn't
have enough ambition!
Paul|12.10.08 @ 1:12PM|#
Given the culture of corruption that seems to swirl around Ill. politics... is it at all possible that this governor actually believes that he did nothing wrong?
Naga Sadow|12.10.08 @ 1:14PM|#
Paul,
Good question. I know what the feds think though.
"Ignorance is no excuse for the law."
|12.10.08 @ 1:17PM|#
BDB, Hillary could have been a lot tougher on Obama than she was. Did she run any Rev. Wright ads?
Kolohe|12.10.08 @ 1:17PM|#
Rahm Emmanuel, as everyone spent almost a solid month
explaining, is a Clintonite.
Yes, he's from Chicago, but he's someone who came up in DC, not in
the local political machine.
Emmanuel was a rep from the Ill 5th, running for the vacant seat
that Blagojevich left to run for governor (who in turn got it as
part of a democratic restoration from the temp Repub rep elected
when Rostenkowski had to leave).
But based on the Emmanuel's wikipedia entry, in the primary he was
challenged by the Daley machine and won. (at which point the
machine got behind him - or at least no longer opposed him).
So, I have my own pet theory on how Emanuel is involved. Between
Rosty and Blago, that seat has quite a recent history. I think when
Rohm got there, he was visited by the members of 'the local
neighborhood merchants association and social club'. Who Rahm in
turn told to pack sand (but still with as many f*** as Blago would
use). So when they said, 'hey we've always done it this way' Rahm
said 'really?' and told his buddy Patrick Fitzgerald. Which is how
the US attorney started the investigation a few years ago.
|12.10.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Not to mention that she didn't drag Michigan and Florida into court, which is the usual way the Clintons do things.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:18PM|#
"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:17pm | #
BDB, Hillary could have been a lot tougher on Obama than she was.
Did she run any Rev. Wright ads?"
No, she's not gonna alienate THAT much of the black vote! It would
screw her up big time in the general election. It's the same reason
Obama didn't run any ads on Monica or Whitewater or (pick your 90s
Clinton scandal), because that would be too "Republican", too much
blowback from the party base.
Number 6|12.10.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Well, Truman was a product of Kansas City machine politics.*
Make of that what you will.
*For those who don't know, Kansas City's Tom Pendergast was one of
the country's great bosses. His machine was, in many ways, the
model for Daley's.
PS-I use AdBlock, but embedding ads is going to do nothing but piss
people off.
|12.10.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Commenters, stop accusing joe of being a partisan
shill!!!
It hurts his feelings.
|12.10.08 @ 1:19PM|#
Wouldn't it be awesome to have a president who had actually
tried to do something about the corruption in Illinois politics,
and whose efforts had actually helped clean it up?
Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones
Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of
the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in
politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the
call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the
governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions
before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1,
prosecutors say...
Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly,
anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and
approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system
of influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention
deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been
growing for some time.
So the bill passes, Blagojevich starts working overtime to get more
money before the provisions kick in on January 1, the feds catch
on, and...
...the government obtained court approval to intercept oral
communications in certain locations in the offices of Friends of
Blagojevich. In addition, as part of its investigation, the
government obtained court approval to intercept wire communications
on the home phone of ROD BLAGOJEVICH.
It's going to be nice having a president who's honest.
For
A
CHANGE.
Paul|12.10.08 @ 1:22PM|#
It's going to be nice having a president who's honest.
For
A
CHANGE.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The nice young man from Illinois
hasn't been inaugurated, yet.
|12.10.08 @ 1:23PM|#
J sub D | December 10, 2008, 1:18pm | #
Commenters, stop accusing joe of being a partisan shill!!!
It hurts his feelings.
Dude. Move on. Everyone else has.
You've beeing stewing for an hour over this? We're all talking
about Blagojevich and Jesse Jr.
Uh, yeah, my feelings. Huh?
|12.10.08 @ 1:24PM|#
BDB,
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10chicago.html?pagewanted=2&ref=politics
Kolohe|12.10.08 @ 1:25PM|#
Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil
Jones Jr.,
There are other reports (i.e. speculation) that Jones is Candidate
#5.
(liberal) source.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:26PM|#
Kolohe--
No, it's Jesse Jackson Jr. It's official now.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/10/1709126.aspx
Emil Jones is clean.
|12.10.08 @ 1:29PM|#
obama=political jesus
After the last eight years, heck the last 16, anyone who can find
his ass with both hands and doesn't steal silverware looks an awful
lot like Jesus.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:31PM|#
Heh, the funny thing is Bill Clinton did actually steal literal White House silverware during the transition in 2001.
Russ 2000|12.10.08 @ 1:32PM|#
Blago's been corrupt for years but the fed prosecutors take no action "to build a case" (yeah, right) until he starts horse trading for the appointment of the replacement horse trader - then they move in ASAP.
Russ 2000|12.10.08 @ 1:34PM|#
Even if Obama isn't dirty, certainly somebody he brought
with him from Illinois is to some degree.
His chief of staff, for example.
|12.10.08 @ 1:36PM|#
J sub D | December 10, 2008, 12:09pm | #
Y'know, it would be nice if we had some sort of regular Democratic
shill, a blue team spimmeister here at H&R to expolain how this
is only an aberration of Dem politics. That the donkey party really
cares about the little people and aren't just in it for the power
and the dineros. Unlike the GOP.
Damn shame we don't have anyone fitting that description here.
Russ 2000|12.10.08 @ 1:38PM|#
Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley
Machine.
Not true. He ran campaigns for Daley.
|12.10.08 @ 1:40PM|#
the dirty politician is dirty
the shilling poster is a shill
the adjective/gerund noun is adjective/a noun
Paul|12.10.08 @ 1:40PM|#
Rahm Emmanuel is not, and never has been, part of the Daley
Machine
I thought if you were from Illinois, and involved in politics, you
were part of the Daley machine. Or paid protection to it...
|12.10.08 @ 1:43PM|#
As a fan of political farce, I've got to say I'm loving this
Illinois vaudeville show.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 1:44PM|#
Russ 2000 | December 10, 2008, 1:32pm | #
Blago's been corrupt for years but the fed prosecutors take no
action "to build a case" (yeah, right) until he starts horse
trading for the appointment of the replacement horse trader - then
they move in ASAP.
The corrupt appointment of a United States Senator was imminent,
and if you'd bothered to read the story, you'd find out that they
just recently got wiretaps on him.
His chief of staff, for example. Uh, yeah, Barack Obama
brought Rahm Emmanuel to DC. Huh? Oh, and he's totally corrupt. You
know, like that time...uh...
|12.10.08 @ 1:47PM|#
It's going to be nice having a president who's
honest.
When do you see that happening, Joe?
2012 will be our first opportunity, but given the sorry state of
the Ruling Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to see an
honest president for another 20 years or more.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 1:48PM|#
Not true. He ran campaigns for Daley.
Checked on this - he was a staffer on Daley's 1988 campaign, before
going national.
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:50PM|#
I see it always comes back to TheMedia some way, somehow. TheMedia is at fault!
|12.10.08 @ 1:50PM|#
When do you see that happening, Joe?
When the guy who pushed through the campaign finance bill that
ended up getting Blago wiretapped, and who Blago was caught on FBI
tape cursing about because he wouldn't commit a corrupt act, is
sworn in on January 20th.
Do you ever bother to familiarize yourself with facts, Mr.
Randolph, or are you still one of those "gut-check" people?
|12.10.08 @ 1:53PM|#
BDB | December 10, 2008, 1:31pm | #
Heh, the funny thing is Bill Clinton did actually steal literal
White House silverware during the transition in 2001.
I though the GSA report refuted thos stories.
|12.10.08 @ 1:54PM|#
2012 will be our first opportunity, but given the sorry
state of the Ruling Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to
see an honest president for another 20 years or more.
Oh, I see. "Honest President" = "Republican"
I trust the regulars will be along to beat their breasts over your
awful partisanship.
Yep, any minute now.
Any minute now.
|12.10.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Joe,
You're not only deluded, you're really easy to bait.
I'm going to greatly enjoy watching you try to defend Obama's
failures.
Do you ever bother to familiarize yourself with facts, Mr.
Randolph,
I do, and you don't. That's why you support the Ruling Party.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 1:55PM|#
Oh, I see. "Honest President" = "Republican"
Not everyone fits in one of your little boxes, Joe. Feel free to
try again, though.
-jcr
Bluto|12.10.08 @ 1:56PM|#
"You mean the guy who Blagalphabet keeps ranting and swearing
about because he won't commit corrupt acts?"
Makes sense to me. As Chicago's affirmative action pol, Obama
didn't have to meet the corruption reqirements in order to
advance.
|12.10.08 @ 1:57PM|#
James,
I find it pretty unlikely that a state senator, then US Senator,
from Illinois never had any contact with the Governor of
Illinois.
But given how widely known it was that Blago was being
investigated, it would be pretty unlikely that Obama himself would
be talking to him.
Fitz has the tapes. I haven't heard Obama's voice on there yet, and
Fitzgerald says Obama knew nothing about Blagojevich's efforts to
sell the Senate seat.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 1:57PM|#
I assumed when he said "2012 is the first opportunity", he meant
Obama is dishonest and there will be no opportunity to replace him
until that year.
If you read "Republican" in to that, joe, reeding lesssons R N
ordor.
|12.10.08 @ 1:57PM|#
Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the one rival that doesn't make the team?
Michael Sembello|12.10.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Just a beantown boy on a Saturday night, lookin' for the fight
of his life
In the real-time world no one sees him at all, they all say he's
crazy
Locking rhythms to the beat of his heart, changing a man into
life
He has spun into the danger zone, when a spinner becomes the
spin
It can cut you like a knife, if the gift becomes the fire
On a wire between what is and what he says
He's a shill-iac, shill-iac on the board
And he's spinning like he's never spinned before
He's a shill-iac, shill-iac on the board
And he's spinning like he's never spinned before
|12.10.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Not everyone fits in one of your little boxes,
Joe.
Let's go to the tape: 2012 will be our first
opportunity, but given the sorry state of the Ruling
Party's grip on the media, I wouldn't expect to see an
honest president for another 20 years or more.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 1:58PM|#
nah. I don't see Wes Clark going anywhere. (Was he technically a rival? I forget.)
|12.10.08 @ 1:59PM|#
Makes sense to me. As Chicago's affirmative action pol,
Obama didn't have to meet the corruption reqirements in order to
advance.
Uh, yeah, black politicians from Chicago can't be corrupt.
What?
BDB|12.10.08 @ 1:59PM|#
"James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:57pm | #
Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the
one rival that doesn't make the team?"
He won't, but not for the reason you think. It's because he's
disgraced.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 1:59PM|#
2012 will be our first opportunity
Our = America's, joe. Come now.
Jesse Jackson, Jr.|12.10.08 @ 2:00PM|#
"Uh, yeah, black politicians from Chicago can't be
corrupt.
"
I'll give you a cool million for the seat! You're not wired, are
you?
|12.10.08 @ 2:00PM|#
I assumed when he said "2012 is the first opportunity", he
meant Obama is dishonest and there will be no opportunity to
replace him until that year.
...and when he talked about the Ruling Party's grip on the media,
you just pretended to have no idea who that meant.
What a hack!
|12.10.08 @ 2:00PM|#
Strange that the genius Axelrod thought he had spoken with him. And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement.
|12.10.08 @ 2:00PM|#
joe said:
"Honest President" = "Republican"
Now joe, I understand you're a Republican shill, but you can't
seriously beleive that!?
ed|12.10.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Just hearing about it, and HOLY SHIT!
If it's true, it's too good to be true.
Another nail in the civil "rights" shakedown racket?
Christmas may indeed come early.
You're a mean one, Mr. Fitzgerald!
|12.10.08 @ 2:01PM|#
James Ard | December 10, 2008, 1:57pm | #
Would anyone like to wager with me that John Edwards will be the
one rival that doesn't make the team?
I'll take that bet. If Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel don't get
appointed to Barack Obama's administration, you stop posting for a
month.
If they do, I will.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 2:02PM|#
and when he talked about the Ruling Party's grip on the
media, you just pretended to have no idea who that
meant.
Honestly, because I don't know what he meant by that, and neither
do you.
Are you always spoiling for a threadjack fight? Isn't that the
first sign you're a troll?
|12.10.08 @ 2:03PM|#
If you read "Republican" in to that, joe, reeding lesssons R
N ordor.
Joe apparently suffers from a severe case of Ruling Party
Propaganda Inhalation.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 2:04PM|#
Honestly, because I don't know what he meant by that, and
neither do you.
If I hadn't read enough of your comments, I'd accuse you of playing
dumb.
But no, you probably have no idea.
|12.10.08 @ 2:05PM|#
Wouldn't it be awesome to have a president who had actually
tried to do something about the corruption in Illinois politics,
and whose efforts had actually helped clean it up?
Really? Illinois politics is cleaner now than it was before Obama
graced it with his presence (as demonstrated by his voting record)?
You just stick with that one, joe.
If Obama really had any interest in exerting himself to clean up
Illinois, he would have been on board with one of the few genuine
reformers in Illinois politics - the current Lt. Gov. However, I'm
not aware that Obama ever found the time or the energy to work with
anyone outside the Illinois machine.
I stick by my previous take on Obama. A go-along-to-get-along
Illinois pol. Ethically inert.
Grant|12.10.08 @ 2:05PM|#
"I remember writing that his most natural friends from back home
were the people at the University of Chicago Law School, who would
make the most sense as judicial nominees."
I find the term "natural friends" to be racist.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 2:05PM|#
Forget it. I'm not getting drawn into more of your trolling,
joe.
Jesus, you just WANT every thread to focus on you, don't you?
Attention. Whore.
|12.10.08 @ 2:06PM|#
You know what?
Since you've all decided this thread is going to be all about me,
I'm gonna repost that report from the Times.
Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones
Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of
the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in
politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the
call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the
governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions
before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1,
prosecutors say...
Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly,
anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and
approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system
of influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention
deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been
growing for some time.
So the bill passes, Blagojevich starts working overtime to get more
money before the provisions kick in on January 1, the feds catch
on, and...
...the government obtained court approval to intercept oral
communications in certain locations in the offices of Friends of
Blagojevich. In addition, as part of its investigation, the
government obtained court approval to intercept wire communications
on the home phone of ROD BLAGOJEVICH.
Shill: someone who provides objective information that is
inconvenient for Republicans.
Partisan: someone who acknowledges when the objective facts refute
Republican spin.
|12.10.08 @ 2:08PM|#
Joe,
Let me give you a little hint about what the Ruling Party is, and
how it deludes suckers like you.
Did you notice that both of the "opponents" in the last electoral
farce voted for the bailout? Doesn't it seem strange to you that on
the issue of whether to throw our whole freaking economy under the
bus to keep a bunch of corrupt bankers afloat, they were on the
same side?
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 2:11PM|#
Really? Illinois politics is cleaner now than it was before
Obama graced it with his presence (as demonstrated by his voting
record)?
Yup. You might have seen the story, the corrupt governor just got
arrested. Something about wiretaps. Something about campaign
finance reform. Something about cursing out "that President-Elect
motherfucker" for not being extorted to get his candidate appointed
to a Senate seat. I understand you can find the story if you google
hard enough.
If Obama really had any interest in exerting himself to clean
up Illinois, he would have been on board with one of the few
genuine reformers in Illinois politics...I stick by my previous
take on Obama. A go-along-to-get-along Illinois pol. Ethically
inert.
From the story:
Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed - publicly,
anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and
approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system
of influence peddling in Illinois
Lemme guess - the Lt. Governor hated that bill, right?
|12.10.08 @ 2:11PM|#
Joe the "rivals" you mention got about 2% of the vote combined. Your bet is total nonsense.
|12.10.08 @ 2:13PM|#
Jesus, you just WANT every thread to focus on you, don't
you?
Actually, I want the thread to focus on Barack Obama, Rod
Blagojevich, and Illinois politics.
I can't help it if people respond to facts that harsh their buzz by
writing about me.
So, can we get back to Barack Obama, Rod Blagojevich, and Illinois
politics? Or will be seeing more people rewriting 80s pop songs in
my honor?
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 2:13PM|#
So, as I thought, when JCR said "Ruling Party", he meant
"Republicrats".
Which, given how much joe has hung around here, you think he would
have known. But joe is too much of an attention whore not to start
a partisan polemic predicated on pedantry.
|12.10.08 @ 2:15PM|#
James Ard | December 10, 2008, 2:11pm | #
Joe the "rivals" you mention got about 2% of the vote combined.
Your bet is total nonsense.
Your bet. Your term.
BTW, Richardson and Biden got about 2%, too, but you count them as
part of your grand conspiracy theory.
Craig|12.10.08 @ 2:15PM|#
It's nothing but good news for freedom lovers whenever the
curtain is pulled back and people see politics for what it really
is -- a sordid auction of stolen goods, pursued by people with a
generally low level of ethical inhibitions.
Either someone had a personal reason for exposing Blago, or he
wasn't as smooth as more sophisticated political operatives who
manage to cut deals with implied paybacks and a wink and a nod,
rather than demanding cash and jobs up front.
The Angry Optimist|12.10.08 @ 2:16PM|#
I can't help it if people respond to facts that harsh their buzz by
writing about me.
Dear Attention Whore,
The "Facts" you laid out was to read JCR's mind and state that he
must be a Republican shill, even though he just clarified for you
that he thinks the "Ruling Party" = both parties, because there is
no substantive difference.
You, on the other hand, just wanted to threadjack and project
partisanship onto someone else so you could take an ill-founded
cheap shot at the integrity of the posters on the board.
You knew that snidely implying that we're only tough on YOUR
partisan hackery would piss everyone off and make the thread all
about you.
Yours truly,
Your Exhausted Trollbait
|12.10.08 @ 2:16PM|#
Oh, look, TAO is writing about me again.
me
me
me
me
me
me
me?
ME!
More about me, please. Certainly, don't write anything about the
events taking place in Illinois.
adrian|12.10.08 @ 2:16PM|#
just helping things along. (i don't think anything will come of
it)
Nov
5th article
|12.10.08 @ 2:16PM|#
You might have seen the story, the corrupt governor just got
arrested
Oh, so because one of them gets busted, that makes the system
cleaner?
I wonder if there was someone like you saying the same thing when
Ryan or Trafficant got sent to the hoosegow. Hope spring eternal, I
guess.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 2:17PM|#
I'd never make a non-posting bet with joe. I would hate to be responsible for taking away all the fun he brings to the table.
|12.10.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Oh, so because one of them gets busted, that makes the
system cleaner?
Oh, c'mon! Blago was above and beyond, even by Chicago standards.
Have you heard those tapes? This guy was like Duke
Cunningham.
But why did you cut out the rest of my comment - the part about the
campaign finance law passing, and it posing enough of a threat to
the pay-to-play system that Blagojevich decided he needed to
scramble around to rake in money before it took effect?
Craig|12.10.08 @ 2:20PM|#
Didn't Iceland have a similar system back in the day? Seats in their parliament were auctioned off to the highest bidder, cutting out the middlemen in our system who raise cash for the candidates who can put the best public face on their power grab.
|12.10.08 @ 2:21PM|#
NY Governor Patterson | December 10, 2008, 2:19pm | #
How much should I charge the Kennedy family for our open senate
seat?
I can't freaking believe that guy. This is such an obvious suck-up
to the national party.
As far as I can tell, you can "charge" some dinner invitations and
photo ops.
The Great State of Louisiana|12.10.08 @ 2:21PM|#
I'd just like to thank the Illinois Machine for making us look good by comparison.
The Democratic Republican|12.10.08 @ 2:24PM|#
People, people..."joe" likes attention because he spends all his time coming here and provoking all of you to respond to his airheaded liberal group think. The only way to make it go away is to ignore it.
|12.10.08 @ 2:24PM|#
But why did you cut out the rest of my comment
Because it wasn't relevant. Illinois politicos get busted on a
regular basis, and the details of what causes any particular one of
them to trip up and get busted has no effect on the pervasive
culture of corruption.
-jcr
Zeb|12.10.08 @ 2:28PM|#
"partisan polemic predicated on pedantry."
Spiro Agnew, is that you?"
No, Bill Sapphire.
|12.10.08 @ 2:29PM|#
Guys, please keep up the ad hominem attacks on joe, we
need more material to draw more members for our fan club. joe,
don't stop being awesome. You keep this forum rockin' and rollin'
with your mix of self-righteousness and maximial
correctitude.
joe isn't a troll, he's a hero. Whatever your political bias, you
must admit, people like joe make political blogs political.
long live joe, let us all sing his praises!
|12.10.08 @ 2:31PM|#
Because it wasn't relevant...
Actually, it was the central part of my point - not only did he get
arrested, he got arrested because of changes to the law that Barack
Obama helped push through.
BTW, they're backing off the story that Rahm-bo tipped off the
police.
ed|12.10.08 @ 2:31PM|#
we know, joe, you're an attention-whoring troll. We got
it.
But he's nothing if not dedicated.
Attempts: 11,462
Minds changed: 0
|12.10.08 @ 2:37PM|#
Regarding joe's post @ 2:06:
Try replacing "Mr. Obama" with "Mr. Clinton" and image that story
taking place. I couldn't either.
My point is shouldn't serious conservatives at least be happy that
someone (Obama) who has done nothing to date that can be construed
as corrupt is going to be president as opposed to more of the
Clinton years.
Shouldn't we maybe wait to see if Obama ever does anything corrupt
before we all go haywire here?
This story should give us confidence that Obama won't play these
games and that maybe we at least have someone uncorruptable as
president.
Wouldn't that be refreshing?
|12.10.08 @ 2:37PM|#
joe conveniently overlooks the fact that, post-The Great Obama
Reform, federal prosecutors were monitoring what they termed an
ongoing criminal enterprise in the governor's office.
I really don't think that means that Obama's reform bill succeeded
in cleaning up Illinois; I rather think that means it failed, at
least so far.
And the Great Obama Reform rather obscures Obama's, the Great
Reformer's, rather puzzling reluctance to join forces with someone
who actually was pushing major, systematic reforms.
Go along to get along. Ethically inert.
Seward|12.10.08 @ 2:39PM|#
There is very little if any difference between the Republican and Democratic parties. I mean, this decade ought to have taught us that. On the most significant pieces of legislation this decade the majority of members of both parties voted pretty much together. PATRIOT ACT? Check. Iraq War Authorization? Check. Sarbanes-Oxley? Check. All these bailouts? Check.
Dan Rostenkowski|12.10.08 @ 2:39PM|#
Blago was above and beyond, even by Chicago standards.
How soon we forget.
|12.10.08 @ 2:42PM|#
Refusing to pay to keep your seat in the family is one thing. Abusing your power to bring down a former buddy practicing standard Chicago politics is a little less honorable.
|12.10.08 @ 2:42PM|#
Actually, it was the central part of my point
That doesn't make it relevant.
-jcr
|12.10.08 @ 2:44PM|#
There is very little if any difference between the
Republican and Democratic parties. I mean, this decade ought to
have taught us that.
Heh. The Nixon administration should have taught us that.
-jcr
Hubert|12.10.08 @ 2:44PM|#
"Oh, look, TAO is writing about me again.
me, me, me, me, me, me, me?
ME!
More about me, please. Certainly, don't write anything about the
events taking place in Illinois."
I think this would be a good time to take a shit.
|12.10.08 @ 2:45PM|#
joe conveniently overlooks the fact that, post-The Great
Obama Reform, federal prosecutors were monitoring what they termed
an ongoing criminal enterprise in the governor's office.
Ignore? The fact that the guy got busted by that monitoring - the
wiretapping part of which was initiated because of his efforts to
vacuum up money before the law kicked in - was my point.
I just got accused of putting too much emphasis on the fact the the
governor got busted, and then accused of ignoring the fact that the
governor got busted.
I really don't think that means that Obama's reform bill
succeeded in cleaning up Illinois; I rather think that means it
failed, at least so far. Um, what? That doesn't make any
sense. BECAUSE the governor's corruption was uncovered and he was
arrested because of this reform, it shows the reform hasn't done
anything to clean up state politics? You stick with that argument,
RC. It's convincing!
Go along to get along. Let's go to the tape. I'll bold the
parts that refute you.
Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil
Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was
a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of
money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it.
But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the
veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors
for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take
effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say...
Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed -
publicly, anyway - and strongly urged Mr. Jones to
bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics
bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of
influence peddling in Illinois...Mr. Obama's intervention
deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been
growing for some time.
Go along to get along. You know, like crossing your mentor, pushing
him to do something he didn't want to do, pissing off the
governor...THAT kind of go along to get along.
What?
|12.10.08 @ 2:47PM|#
Dan Rostenkowski was convicted of selling stamps he got for free
from the government.
The enterprise netted him a few thousand dollars.
Blagojevich was going to sell a Unites States Senate seat for a
million bucks, and that's only one of the charges.
Order of magnitude difference.
|12.10.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Here's my honest take on it. Obama wanted Jesse jr., his
campaign co-chair, appointed to his senate seat. Cronyism is not
corruption in many's eyes. Blagowhatever, sleazy politician that he
is, wanted a quid pro quo that Obama was too smart to provide.
Jesse jr., having grown up in privilege, thought he was smart
enough to buy the seat on his own without getting caught. IOW, the
apple fell adjacent to the trunk.
Other scenarios can be devised that cast more or less blame on the
president-elect and his campaign co-chair (ooh, that does not look
good at all).
|12.10.08 @ 2:49PM|#
Abusing your power to bring down a former buddy practicing
standard Chicago politics is a little less honorable.
Bullshit "Sopranos" morality. Turning in a crook is bad, all of a
sudden.
And let's just forget the fact that, whether they standard Chicago
politics or not, Blagojevich was moved to profanity-laden tirades
at Obama because he refused to play them.
|12.10.08 @ 2:51PM|#
Obama wanted Jesse jr., his campaign co-chair, appointed to
his senate seat.
Refuted by the tapes. Obama wanted "Senate Candidate #1," who most
people think was Valerie Jarrett, for the seat.
Blago goes into a rant that he's going to "go with Jackson" over
Senate Candidate #1 because Obama won't give him anything for the
seat.
|12.10.08 @ 2:54PM|#
Joe, I suspect the hammer fell as soon as Obama heard the tapes. Thin skin, you know.
Seward|12.10.08 @ 2:56PM|#
I have no idea what the Blago deal means for the incoming Obama administration. And neither does anyone else. It likely isn't that important.
|12.10.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Joe, it's hard to have a Sopranos mentality when I've never seen the program. Why just Blagojevich? let the investigation proceed and Obama really could have cleaned the place up.
|12.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
"If you look at people like Rahm or Jarrett or Axelrod, they're
longtime Obama supporters, but they're not really Daley machine,
Chicago machine people."
Axelrod's been working for Daley pretty much since the day Harold
Washington died. If that doesn't make him a "Daley machine" person,
what does?
|12.10.08 @ 3:04PM|#
I think Obama difinitively did NOT want Jesse Jr. getting his
senate seat.
Thats why Blago essentially said "F him, if they don't give me
anything, I'll give the seat to Jesse Jr."
|12.10.08 @ 3:06PM|#
joe logic at work:
A massively corrupt governor is conducting an auction for a Senate
seat - no evidence whatsoever that Illinois politics is
corrupt.
A massively corrupt governor gets busted for
conducting an auction for a Senate seat - proof positive that
Illinois politics is cleaner than its ever been.
Wait, there's more:
Obama twists arms on one bill reforming pay-for-play" Illinois
politics - hosannas and hallelujahs for the Greatest Reformer
Evah!
Obama studiously avoids the Democratic Lt. Governor as he proposes
more systematic reforms against the opposition of the Illinois
Democratic machine - how dare you say Obama's just a
go-along-toget-along guy?
|12.10.08 @ 3:09PM|#
Joe, it's hard to have a Sopranos mentality when I've never
seen the program.
No, not really. The idea behind your remark, that "rats" who turn
in criminals are less honorable than the people who keep their
secrets, is hardly unique to that one show.
Why just Blagojevich? It's not. It looks like Jesee Junior
is in the soup, too.
let the investigation proceed and Obama really could have
cleaned the place up. I think Fitzgerald decided he had to get
Blagojevich now in order to prevent a corrupt Senate
appointment.
ed|12.10.08 @ 3:09PM|#
joe | December 10, 2008, 2:32pm | #
Why would I want to change your minds?
I can't come up with any other explanation for your psychosis,
joe.
ed|12.10.08 @ 3:13PM|#
Ding, dong, the bitch is dead.
Which ole bitch?
The Jackson bitch!*
*If he's guilty. Every bitch** deserves his/her day in court.
**Perhaps "pimp" would be more appropriate.
|12.10.08 @ 3:19PM|#
It is clear now that Jesse Sr's hatred of Obama is less personall professional jealousy and more disgust that it isn't his son that is president-elect.
|12.10.08 @ 3:19PM|#
Voros,
That's not so. Axelrod has been working as a political consultant
for campaigns all over the country. Daley was one campaign that
hired him, but he was working in Detroit, Washington, and plenty of
other campaigns. You might as well say he's part of the Anthony
Williams machine.
RC,
WTF are you talking about? A massively corrupt governor is
conducting an auction for a Senate seat - no evidence whatsoever
that Illinois politics is corrupt. Where in the hell did you
get THAT piece of crap from? I've never written anything that comes
within a thousand miles of that. I wrote exactly the opposite -
that the fact that the governor got busted for it shows that things
are getting better.
A massively corrupt governor gets busted for conducting an
auction for a Senate seat - proof positive that Illinois politics
is cleaner than its ever been. Funny what you can do when you
add phrases like "than it's ever been" to other people's arguments,
isn't it? What's the matter, my actual argument - that arresting
Blagojevich is part of cleaning up Illinois politics - doesn't make
your point? Aw, poor baby. Have you considerd the possibility that
your point is nonsensical?
Seriously, you want to sit here and argue that it doesn't help to
clean up politics to arrest massively corrupt politicians? You go
on with your bad. Don't worry, it doesn't look like desperate
partisan hackery. At all.
Obama twists arms on one bill reforming pay-for-play" Illinois
politics - hosannas and hallelujahs for the Greatest Reformer
Evah! Oh, look, you're using hyperbole to make a completely
uncontroversial observation look absurd. Again. Truly, you must be
arguing from a solid position.
Obama studiously avoids the Democratic Lt. Governor... Ah,
so now he "studiously avoids" him, eh? Right. Sure he did.
Tell me, when I google "Obama Illinois Lt. Governor" to find out
what half-baked wingnut you're parroting, which web site am I going
to end up at?
|12.10.08 @ 3:26PM|#
Whoa, lookie what I found:
Despite campaigning with Blagojevich in 2006, Quinn became an
outspoken critic of the governor and said at the news conference
that the two had not spoken since 2007.
So let me get this straight - during the period that Barack Obama
was active in Illinois politics, Pat Quinn was a Blagojevich
loyalist. Because Obama wasn't working with a Blagojevich loyalist,
this shows he wasn't interested in reform.
Then, while Barack Obama was a Senator and presidential candidate,
his reform efforts were limited to lobbying the people he had
pre-existing relationships with to reform the law, rather than
vaguely "working with" a guy who, when he last held Illinois
office, was a Blagojevich loyalist.
The conclusion we're supposed to draw here is that Obama didn't
really work for reform, because he didn't quit his day job to go
work with a guy who only became a reformer when Obama had left
state government.
Sure, that makes sense.
|12.10.08 @ 3:29PM|#
I know this game:
Why don't Muslims denounce terrorism?
They do - here and here and here and here and here.
OK, but why don't they do it MORE?
|12.10.08 @ 3:30PM|#
"And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to
meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement."
There's nothing inherently wrong with discussing his replacement.
Obama can legally whinge, cajole, lobby, persuade and otherwise
verbally try to get a favored person appointed.
What is illegal and unethical is the offer or demand of money or
other item of value in exchange for the appointment.
Given Blago's cursing of Obama, it seems Obama wasn't playing that
game.
|12.10.08 @ 3:32PM|#
That's what Obama should have said, but instead, he said he'd had no contact with him.
|12.10.08 @ 3:34PM|#
James wrote: "Joe, I suspect the hammer fell as soon as Obama
heard the tapes. Thin skin, you know."
Right, because Patrick Fitzgerald is Obama's puppet. Sure.
|12.10.08 @ 3:34PM|#
Axelrod may have been consulting for lots of people, he's been
_working_ for Daley. The best defense for Obama with regards to
Axelrod is that he's not as close to Axelrod as Daley is. The
latter is indisputable.
Obama simply could not have gotten to where he did without
extensive ties to the Daley Machine. Now that doesn't necessarily
make him corrupt (other than maybe having passing knowledge of the
corruption of others), but arguing he's not closely tied is
ludicrous on its face. You can be clean and run with Daley and
company, all you have to be is clean and useful.
|12.10.08 @ 3:42PM|#
Funny how Fitzgerald keeps an investigation going even after discovering the leaker in the Plame case. But here, after admitting there was a crime spree going on, he rushes to court. Most US attorneys would let things play out a little to ensnare the most crooks.
Grandpa Withers|12.10.08 @ 3:43PM|#
"I wrote exactly the opposite - that the fact that the governor
got busted for it shows that things are getting better."
Given that the governor before him is in jail simply means the next
governor will be corrupt as well.
Taking out Gambino didn't make the Gotti era Mafia honest.
Grandpa Withers|12.10.08 @ 3:48PM|#
"That's what Obama should have said, but instead, he said he'd
had no contact with him."
As someone who has worked with several governors, I can tell you
first hand that it is entirely possible that after the statement
was made that Obama was going to meet with the governor, something
came up that pushed it off of the calendar. It happens all of the
time.
|12.10.08 @ 3:48PM|#
Not waiting for the money to change hands is either the dumbest prosecutorial move ever, or an attempt to cover for someone.
|12.10.08 @ 3:53PM|#
Gramps, even if that meeting didn't happen, the video of Axelrod is very convincing. He even describes the conversation, detailing how Obama liked some of the names.
|12.10.08 @ 3:59PM|#
Whatever Hillary found in Fitzgerald's FBI file must have been none too flattering.
|12.10.08 @ 4:29PM|#
"And funny how a reporter on Nov. 5th claimed Obama was going to
meet with Blago that day to discuss his replacement."
I keep seeing this in the future tense, and from that one reporter.
I haven't seen any reports saying they met. Why is that?
Funny how Fitzgerald keeps an investigation going even after
discovering the leaker in the Plame case. There were multiple
leakers in the Plame case. This has been known for years, and was
in his report.
But here, after admitting there was a crime spree going on, he
rushes to court. Yeah, why arrest Blagojevich before he
appointed a United States Senator? Why would he possibly do
that?
Whatever Hillary found in Fitzgerald's FBI file must have been
none too flattering.
Maybe he should have wrapped it in tin foil.
ed|12.10.08 @ 4:37PM|#
J.J. Jr.'s press conference will soon become a parser's
dream.
No admission of guilt, but a hint of wistfullness. He used the past
tense, as if his days were numbered. I wish him well if he's
innocent of Illinois politics, if that's possible. Is it? Obama's
presidency is dependent upon it. Look out.
|12.10.08 @ 5:18PM|#
J.J. Jr.'s press conference will soon become a parser's
dream.
The guy sure knows how to squirm, doesn't he?
-jcr
Syd Henderson|12.10.08 @ 5:34PM|#
Syd Henderson | December 10, 2008, 12:39pm | #
There's also speculation that #5 is Emil Jones, so don't convict JJ
quite yet.
Okay, I guess we can now.
|12.10.08 @ 5:39PM|#
There are 4 things seem to be true on this thread...
1) There's nothing that would link the President-elect to this,
completely the contrary in fact. If anything, this makes Obama look
like the single uncorrupted politician from Illinois.
2) joe is still a blindly partisan blowhard. But he's right about
#1.
3) It may be that something will come to light later, but you may
also already be a millionaire. Not something you should count on in
trying to crystal ball the political future, even though Chicago
could probably have sucked the integrity out of Mother
Teresa.
4) A President from Chicago is elected and no media outlet has even
broached the possiblity that Obama might have some Chicago Machine
political dirt under his fingernails? Not even from the sort of
reckless media outlets willing to go all out with baseless claims
about an incumbent wartime President going AWOL during his National
Guard Service? I think it's safe to say that those guys are on Team
Blue with joe.
Make that 5 things...
ed wins the thread:
"[joe]'s nothing if not dedicated.
Attempts: 11,462
Minds changed: 0"
Because you can't buy that kind of devotion, it's got to come from
the heart.
Elemenope|12.10.08 @ 5:39PM|#
I was somehow transfixed by this nauseating thread in which
pretty much everyone's thought process is:
1. Here is Evidence A.
2. Evidence A clearly affirms my world-view.
3. Idiot [person who doesn't think like me] introduces Evidence B,
which because he is obviously an idiot doesn't realize actually
clearly affirms my world-view and not their's.
4. What a schmuck.
5. I shall now type my mocking but obviously brilliant [barely
coherent and internally contradictory or poorly sourced]
response.
Rinse and repeat for all statements and evidence introduced by
anyone.
Most of the threads are not like this. Come on, guys, get your shit
wired straight.
|12.10.08 @ 5:43PM|#
Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job would ever be seated? If there is no payment then Fitz has nothing.
|12.10.08 @ 6:04PM|#
The IL governor reminds me of Tony Montana from the movie,
"Scarface":
"First you get the moanie, then you get the power, then you get the
woahmen..."
Elemenope|12.10.08 @ 6:28PM|#
Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job
would ever be seated? If there is no payment then Fitz has
nothing.
Promising or suggesting to do something illegal or advertising an
illegal service can itself be illegal, and often is.
|12.10.08 @ 7:09PM|#
Promising or suggesting to do something illegal or
advertising an illegal service can itself be illegal, and often
is.
Otherwise cops would have to screw crack whores before busting
them.
highnumber|12.10.08 @ 7:32PM|#
Most of the threads are not like this. Come on, guys, get
your shit wired straight.
Please direct me to this website that you frequent.
VM|12.11.08 @ 7:41AM|#
hier.
but these non Chicagoians are sher quick with their google fu.
haven't seen this speed since the FontGate and Dan rather!
|12.11.08 @ 8:21AM|#
James Ard | December 10, 2008, 5:43pm | #
Joe, you think an appointed senator that paid for the job would
ever be seated?
He would, if it didn't come out that process was dirty, ie, if Fitz
had sat on this like you seem to think he should have.
If there is no payment then Fitz has nothing. Oh, there's
plenty of conspiracy, and solicitation on those tapes.
|12.11.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Voros McCraken
"Obama simply could not have gotten to where he did without
extensive ties to the Daley Machine."
Obama ran for congress against Bobby Rush in 2000. Obama lost to
Rush. Rush is a big time ally of Daley's and Daley supported Rush's
campaign. Obama and Daley have a cordial relationship at best.
There are no extensive ties to Daley.
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