A Chavista at the EPA?

Michael C. Moynihan | November 6, 2008

According to the Washington Post, Barack Obama is "looking at possibly appointing Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to head the Environmental Protection Agency, according to sources familiar with the process, though he is eying several other prominent environmentalists as well." Kennedy is a well-know 2004 election conspiracy theorist who is under the impression that we are all being held hostage in fascist America. Ho-hum. So would you be surprised to learn that RFK II is also a Chavista? Of course not!

Check out the video below to watch the Kook of Camelot argue in favor of the nationalization of oil companies and argue that Chavez is the "kind of leader my father and President Kennedy were looking for" in Latin America. Yes, Bobby Kennedy, former Tailgunner Joe McCarthy staffer, and Jack Kennedy, who oversaw the invasion of Cuba, would have surely loved Hugo Chavez.

Kennedy rambles through a litany of American sins in Latin America, both real and imagined (School of the Americas, the Oligarchs, United Fruit, Chiquita banana, etc), and engages in the logical fallacy that if one side has done some horrid things—and who could deny that, for example, the United States overthrew Jacobo Árbenz—the other guys must be battling for a more democratic future.

Kennedy says that Chavez has built thousands of top-notch clinics (see here and here for a more realistic view of his health "missions"), increased literacy by one million (false: see here and here), is "helping indigenous people by giving them rights for the first time in their history" (false), is "doing real land reform" by "redistribut[ing] land that is not used" (Really?), and has overseen countless "free and fair elections," despite his coup-monger past (Has he never heard of the Tascon list? Or Henrique Capriles Radonski?) Oh, and of course the United States "engineered the coup" and "kidnapped" Chavez in 2002.

Watch the whole nutty rant below:

UPDATE: Video won't embed. You can view it here.

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Nigel Watt|11.6.08 @ 5:25PM|#

I kind of want to stick my fingers in my ears and not hear any of the doom and gloom that's coming until it happens. I know it's coming, I just can't stand thinking that Obama might be even worse than Bush.

Carmen Miranda|11.6.08 @ 5:27PM|#

Isn't Robert F. Kennedy Jr. one of the retarded Kennedys? Or am I thinking of Patrick ?

It runs in the family.

SIV|11.6.08 @ 5:28PM|#

I just can't stand thinking that Obama might be even worse than Bush.

I predict "Bush nostalgia".

Elemenope|11.6.08 @ 5:30PM|#

Isn't Robert F. Kennedy Jr. one of the retarded Kennedys? Or am I thinking of Patrick?

Don't know RFK Jr.(can't WTFV, but sounds from the description *actually* moonbatty, unlike much of the stuff usually bitched about round here), but I just voted against dear old Patrick the other day. Was probably gonna vote against him anyway but the bailout vote sealed it.

|11.6.08 @ 5:35PM|#

RFK JR is a serious nut. His mother was a moonbat. That is one of the reasons Jackie O ran off to Greece with Caroline and John Jr, was to get them away from the lunacy surrounding the RFK brood.

If the Republicans have any balls at all, which they probably don't, they will really go after him if Dear Leader is foolish enough to nominate him to head EPA. There are about a thousand crazy things the guy has said. They could really embarass the Dems with them.

Dear Leader has missed one of the most fundemental lessons of Washington; you appoint the crazy embarassing nuts to lower assistant secretary positions, not cabinet level ones.

Sandy|11.6.08 @ 5:39PM|#

Worse, this asshole is behind the "vaccines cause autism" movement, and was flogging it long after it had been proven bullshit.

So he's single-handedly responsible for killing children by pressuring parents into withholding life-saving vaccinations out of fear of a mercury-based preservative that a) was harmless, and b) wasn't even used at the time he jumped on that method of enriching himself at the expense of others.

|11.6.08 @ 5:50PM|#

It's good that the election is over, because we don't have to focus on how horrible two candidates are. We can just focus on how horrible Obama is now.

|11.6.08 @ 5:54PM|#

We were worried about Bush, Clinton, Bush II being followed by Clinton II. We managed to avoid that, yet the hereditary political class America serems to embrace worries the hell out of me.

Thank the FSM that JFK jr. managed to off himself. It's a shame his cousin and uncle didn't show America the same courtesy

Yeah|11.6.08 @ 5:54PM|#

We can just focus on how horrible Obama is now.

Don't tell Weigel.

I have been redemmed. Glenn Reynolds writes
"Plus, calling out the libertarian militia?"

Who will step forth and stand up against the coming night? Who will show the light of freedom out of the barrel of gun?
True blue, real Americans that is who.

concerned observer|11.6.08 @ 5:55PM|#

Mayber what bothers the right about Chavez is that he isn't in the pocket of monied interests intent on maintaining their privilege, but has actually made positive moves towards social justice. Oh yeah, and those elections were indeed fair. Sorry to break it to you, but some countries do not have populaces where the majority of people are wingnuts.

concerned observer|11.6.08 @ 5:56PM|#

@Terry-you are fucking crazy thats what you are. Seriously wtf is wrong with you wingnuts?

concerned observer|11.6.08 @ 5:57PM|#

"we can jst focus on how horrible Obama is now"
That's right have your little rightwing circlejerk and complain about Obama before he even takes offcie

|11.6.08 @ 5:58PM|#

Someone beat me to it, but this c*nt is a dangerous, "vaccines-cause-autism" anti-science asshole of the highest order. You'll probably get title IX for science too. So much for the "next American century."

I could not have read anything more infuriating.

Lefiti|11.6.08 @ 6:00PM|#

What a terrible denigration of Exxon. Exxon is a wonderful, benficent company. I'd rather have the folks at Exxon runing the world than any government. Governments are evil. Yep, Obama will be just like Chavez. We have to work hard to wake America up to reality.

Donate now!

SIV|11.6.08 @ 6:01PM|#

You'll probably get title IX for science too.

That could only be good for science-hating skeptics like myself. Unfortunately we'll also get it for engineering which will get people killed.

Orange Line Special|11.6.08 @ 6:02PM|#

~~ MEMO ~~

From: Kochtopus #27
To: Reason
Subject: Hands off Hugo!

Friends,

Please lay off Hugo.

First, Venezuela is funding a U.S. group that does good work and keeps our economy strong.

Second, opposing "land reform" is a bit difficult when our candidate's friends at ACORN support a somewhat urban equivalent.

A friend of BHO is a friend of ours. We would like your magazine to remain a friend of us.

|11.6.08 @ 6:12PM|#

And I seem to recall in another thread someone arguing that animal rights, anti-GMO activism wasn't actually in the Democratic party platform. So therefore the Dems weren't as anti-science as the Republicans.

This guy is the lefty version of a creationist.

Lester Hunt|11.6.08 @ 6:17PM|#

Beginning with Stalin in the thirties, the American left has always had some creepy despot they were in love with. They know not what they do. Or maybe they do.

jk|11.6.08 @ 6:17PM|#

I think RFK jr was high as a kite in that interview. Put in charge of the DEA instead.

|11.6.08 @ 6:20PM|#

Concerned Observer vs. Terry,
It's a battle troll-ial!

|11.6.08 @ 6:21PM|#

Yep, Obama will be just like Chavez.

Nice-lookin' straw man you got there, Lefiti.

Unfortunately we'll also get it for engineering which will get people killed.

Sad but true. Failing to understand the leak before break criterion just won't be enough to fail certain borderline students.

|11.6.08 @ 6:23PM|#

Mayber what bothers the right about Chavez is that he isn't in the pocket of monied interests intent on maintaining their privilege, but has actually made positive moves towards social justice.

Yes, that's what bothers them. Fantastically argued.

|11.6.08 @ 6:26PM|#

RFK jr. should start rapping or something because that is one of the most "unique" voices I've ever heard.

JLE|11.6.08 @ 6:27PM|#

I miss the good old days when covert CIA operations had to do with fruit, rather than oil.

|11.6.08 @ 6:28PM|#

where the majority of people are wingnuts.

Quit hitting the pipe, bro.

thoreau|11.6.08 @ 6:28PM|#

Why do I have a feeling that Obama is going to suck in ways completely unrelated to the red-baiting predictions being hurled around, leaving his opponents unprepared to deal with his actual mistakes?

Hogan|11.6.08 @ 6:29PM|#

I think RFK jr was high as a kite in that interview.

could be the spasmodic dysphonia that makes his voice weird. or, granted, the brilliant insights.

thoreau|11.6.08 @ 6:29PM|#

Terry-

So, how's the sting operation going? Have you found any suckers dumb enough to join your alleged militia yet?

|11.6.08 @ 6:31PM|#

RFK Jr. is nuts. Caroline is a sharp cookie, but Little Bobby is nuts.

There is no way he gets EPA Director. Too much drama.

|11.6.08 @ 6:33PM|#

Why do I have a feeling that Obama is going to suck in ways completely unrelated to the red-baiting predictions being hurled around, leaving his opponents unprepared to deal with his actual mistakes?

Yup. It wasn't even 1993 yet when I told my college roomies, "Someday, there's going to be a real scandal involving Bill Clinton, and nobody's going to care, because of how much the Republicans are crying wolf."

Same thing.

|11.6.08 @ 6:36PM|#

thoreau,

I predict that Obama's taste for suckitude will include both snails and oysters. In other words, he'll suck in the ways we expect, and he'll suck in altogether new ways. Kind of like a leftie Bush.

joe,

Yes, and how about the same with GWB? I'm upset about what Obama has said all along and some of the things he's done in the last two days, not about some Voodoo Obama in my head. Though I don't like him, either.

|11.6.08 @ 6:44PM|#

I think RFK jr was high as a kite in that interview. Put in charge of the DEA instead.

Considering his history (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE7DF1039F934A25750C0A962948260), that would be kinda funny.

ONe can imagine Moynihan laying awake at night praying for his nomination so his crazed Chavez blog postings can be increased in volume exponentially.

Nigel Watt|11.6.08 @ 6:46PM|#

could be the spasmodic dysphonia that makes his voice weird. or, granted, the brilliant insights.

Well, one of the guys from Run DMC has it too.

Edward|11.6.08 @ 6:47PM|#

Hey guys, does anyone here have a couch I could crash on for a few days? Mom kicked me out after she caught me fucking the cat again.

I really don't see what the big deal is.

|11.6.08 @ 6:49PM|#

Thoreau, I am an honest man.
Patriotic, true blue, American, willing to stand my ground be it with my fellow countrymen or god. I am there.
YOU?

|11.6.08 @ 6:50PM|#

Oh, you're right DMC does have it. Never noticed.

|11.6.08 @ 6:51PM|#

Terry, you're either trolling or living in a Frank Miller comic.

which, please?

BDB|11.6.08 @ 6:56PM|#

Republicans will go nuts (calling Obama "Dear Leader" is similar to Democrats who called Bush "Chimpy McHitler" and whatnot), giving him cover to move to the center.

|11.6.08 @ 6:56PM|#

"RFK Jr. is nuts. Caroline is a sharp cookie, but Little Bobby is nuts."

Good for you Joe! Since you're the resident liberal here, I'm glad to hear it. I've never heard a liberal call this dishonest prick out.

Ironically, I just watched a movie called "The Tripper" that references RFK, Jr. It was a politically-themed slasher flick about a Jason/Freddie character in a Ronald Reagan mask killing hippies at a music festival. It was directed by David Arquette (and it wasn't TOTALLY BAD, just moderately bad). I didn't even think it skewed all that left-wing. But then during the ending credits they played a speech by RFK, Jr. I was disgusted.

I don't hate a lot of politicos on either side. But I despise him....particularly for the vaccine thing (see Sandy's comment above) in addition to his conspiracy bullshit about 2004, which is just poisonous crap for our already polarized politics (and I could go on, but won't).

I ain't a fan of Obama, but I'm willing to give him a honeymoon and I'm genuinely excited about his achievement. An app't of RFK, Jr., would sour me pretty fast.

BDB|11.6.08 @ 6:57PM|#

And yes, RFK Jr. is a nutbag and I can't belive he is being seriously considered.

Isn't he the idiot who said Diebold would steal this election? They sure did a shitty job of it if they were trying.

BDB|11.6.08 @ 6:59PM|#

I'm willing to wait until Obama actually appoints his cabinet before I start to feel one way or the other about him.

|11.6.08 @ 7:05PM|#

Ironically, I just watched a movie called "The Tripper" that references RFK, Jr. It was a politically-themed slasher flick about a Jason/Freddie character in a Ronald Reagan mask killing hippies at a music festival. It was directed by David Arquette

: D O RLY? Man, now I wanna see that!

|11.6.08 @ 7:09PM|#

Moynihan,
No Chavista has done more for communism than your favored neocons. These warmongering/straussian socialist took over a small government party and have managed to turn our economy into a USSR planners dream...while simultaneuosly smearing the name of capitalism in the blood of millions of iraqis and maintaining a 50 year isolationist anti-trade stance agaisnt Cuba to make good and g*ddarned sure that the cubans gain absolutely no understanding of what free trade principles are all about.

I agree with Joe here, RFK is unlikely to get the EPA. The government loves shooting up kids with vaccines and they don't appreciate questions being asked about it. If RFK deos get the EPA, expect him to do a u-turn ont he autism-vaccine issue.

|11.6.08 @ 7:10PM|#

Art-P.O.G.: I was trying to get the political point during the movie...if anything I thought it was pro-Ronnie. Then they played the RFK Jr. diatribe during the credits...so I guess it was supposed to be a leftist diatribe. Best line, "Ronald Reagan has returned, and he's killing hippies." (I'm paraphrasing)

|11.6.08 @ 7:13PM|#

Strangely, I think a libertarian militia sounds like a fun idea. Why is it that only Marxists get to run around pretending to be revolutionaries? I always wanted to be able to wear a beret with some sense of authenticity. Perhaps with a little dollar sign pin on the front.

I think I'll start making T-shirts with pictures of Ayn Rand or Milton Friedman in forward-looking Che poses. Someone's probably already doing this though.

Not that the militia would enage in any actual military activites. I'd suggest Survivalist Rampages. We will converge in a flash mob in downtown and run down the steeet wearing our camo and waving canned goods.

|11.6.08 @ 7:18PM|#

Pro Lib,

How about GWB? I don't follow you?

spur,

ONe can imagine Moynihan laying awake at night praying for his nomination so his crazed Chavez blog postings can be increased in volume exponentially. One certainly can.

RFK Hater,

I don't think he's dishonest. I think he's honest as all hell. He just happens to be nuts.

Warmongering Lunatic|11.6.08 @ 7:19PM|#

McCarthy's lunacy discredited investigation into the actual Communist penetration of the U.S. government, and the Bay of Pigs discredited efforts to overthrow Castro. Maybe the Kennedy brothers really would have loved Hugo Chavez . . .

|11.6.08 @ 7:20PM|#

Chavez is as socialist as sweden and has the police state actions of a Pinochet....hardly a nice combination, but it is annoying when the socialist,pronew deal, pro-federal reserve, pro-JP Morgan neo cons act claim they don't like him because he is a communist. The act gets old, he doesn't borrow internationally and use the loans to buy stuff from Bechtel so he is the worst thing since Sadam Hussein stopped exchanging oil for US Dollars.

If moynihan really cared about human rights as much as he would have us believe he'd be equally angry at the Saudi Arabians, yet bush can french kiss those guys all day and we will never hear about it.

RFK Hater,

Is the movie as satirical as it sounds? Because it has this MST3K sort of vibe the way you describe it, although maybe the real thing has more suspense.

economist|11.6.08 @ 7:20PM|#

Hazel Meade,
Yeah, we could be like the Loonies.

Jerry|11.6.08 @ 7:22PM|#

The only reason these names of crazy people are circulating is to make Obama look sane and centrist when he does not pick them for his cabinet.

|11.6.08 @ 7:23PM|#

Hazel Meade ,

Dude, you really haven't seen the rothbard shirts? I'm pretty sure that wearing a Milton Friedman shirt to a libertarian militia group would get you assigned to mess hall duty. Instead of "ENEMY OF THE STATE" it would have to say something like "I kinda support the Fed"...it would also have a big vagina on it.

http://www.mises.org/store/Murray-Rothbard-T-Shirt-Black-P217.aspx

economist|11.6.08 @ 7:24PM|#

Hazel,
The only problem is that as libertarians we can't go around breaking stuff and trashing people's property to fight "the man". We actually have to be civil, which sort of takes the fun out of revolutioning (yes, I know that's not a word).

gabe,
No love for Milton?

Paul|11.6.08 @ 7:26PM|#

There is no way he gets EPA Director. Too much drama.

Word, but he's a shoe-in for Sec. of State.

BDB|11.6.08 @ 7:29PM|#

"Jerry | November 6, 2008, 7:22pm | #
The only reason these names of crazy people are circulating is to make Obama look sane and centrist when he does not pick them for his cabinet."

I wouldn't be surprised if this is correct.

Turns out, for example, he let so many "leaks" out about how "worried" he was about PA and a "bradley effecT" as a total head fake to make McCain spend time there, only to drub him by 11 points.

economist|11.6.08 @ 7:30PM|#

"I'll bet he doesn't get the nomination. Too much drama."
If you're wrong, why not take up MNG's new handle?

Cool Cal|11.6.08 @ 7:34PM|#

I also want to say that I am really sick of far leftists using the "corporatism" thing as a way to bolster a ridiculous argument not only that we are living under fascism, but that fascism is characterized by the takeover of the government via "corporations". Anyone who speaks Italian, or who has anything beyond a cursory understanding of Mussolini's fascism knows that the definition of "corporation" in 1920's Italy in the context of the Fascist Doctrine is worlds removed from our concept of such. Italian corporations were complex guilds of workers, employers, and trade unions set up for the purposes of collective bargaining, and Mussolini's edict stated that the state must incorporate the guilds into its fabric so that the interests of the laborer are one with the interest of the common good, and more specifically that the forces of self-interest and venality on the part of employers must not supercede the greater good of middle-class prosperity and equality. And no, I am not making the same argument as "Liberal Fascism" Jonah Goldberg, but rather suggesting that the forces behind fascism cannot simply be gleamed from a google search or Naomi Book. Also the suggestion that Hitler would have been irrelevant without "corporate" money behind him is so absurd, I cannot even begin to comment. Also, does anyone realize that our country has far different charter regulations than other countries, and thus a comparison on the role of "corporations" is just as substantively valid as a comparison on the role of "government" without specific discussion on the type of state in discussion (i.e. to compare the U.S. republic to the UK's parliamentary monarchy is a similarly silly equivalency). In conclusion, RFK Jr. is either willfully misleading for the purpose of cajoling his followers off the ideological cliff, or his ignorance is testament to the fact that even at Harvard, the quality of education is abysmal.

|11.6.08 @ 7:34PM|#

That would get confusing.

BDB sez: Turns out, for example, he let so many "leaks" out about how "worried" he was about PA and a "bradley effecT" as a total head fake to make McCain spend time there, only to drub him by 11 points.

Now that you mention it...the Obama campaign hasn't exactly been known for leaks, now has it?

Hogan|11.6.08 @ 7:35PM|#

i don't think mccain spent time in penn because of any head fake. managing an upset there was his only real option to try to pull off a win.

BDB|11.6.08 @ 7:37PM|#

Joe--

Any leaks they did were on purpose. Like being "worried" about PA and "leaking" about the Bradley Effect.

So if it is "leaked" that RFK Jr. is the EPA head, he is probably giving fodder for the moonbats before he actually names someone else.

|11.6.08 @ 7:47PM|#

Art-P.O.G.: I went back and read the IMDB site for it. It was meant to be left-wing agitprop...which I guess I kind of see now, thinking back. But I thought there was also some decent respect for Reagan & some dissing of the hippies and environmentalists.

MST3K worthy? Not quite that bad, but definitely a B-movie. No suspense at all really, pretty much a formulaic slasher film. You know who's going to be killed & who will live.

And there's actually some scenes that were good critisms of modern conservatism from the 80's Reagan more-libertarianish conservatism perspective. For example, the killing of the modern Republican boyfriend by the Reagan-masked murderer. But I'm sure that was probably unintended commentary and the film meant it as some statement about how evil conservatives are...but anyway...I think you could create a blog post trying to analyze the politics of the movie. So it's interesting in that way.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 7:55PM|#

Fuck. RFK Jr? That's what I would expect from a Bush nominee. I really hope this isn't substantiated, or rather, that he changes his mind.

|11.6.08 @ 7:55PM|#

Economist,
I actually like milton just fine. I read free to choose as a 13 year old and thought it was great. Obviously he was better than me at promoting free-market ideas to many, so what can I ealy say bad about him.

Unfortunately, it seems many of the followers of him took his tacit support for a very minimalist centralized money creation system and then used that support to say "even Friedman says the Fed is ok, anyone who argues agains the Fed is a nut" this meme was carried on in full force at the chicago school and then the rest of the economist in the country say...."even the market fundamentalsit chicago school guys love the Fed...no debate/discussion is allowed on this topic."

In any case....if I ever show up at a militia group I will not be wearing a Friedman shirt as this will immediately make any of the austrian or lew rockwell readers there suspect you are a fed or of weak moral character. Of course any of these people would side with Milton over Galbreath and be happy 99% of the time.

|11.6.08 @ 7:56PM|#

economist: I'm not so sure about that. We could selectively trash property belonging to the state. Or like state-subsidized companies.

I'm envisioning something like a Ron Paul rally that gets out of hand, and results in a riot, with plenty of tear gas and rubber bullets. Plenty of revolting fun there. (I'm sure that's the wrong word, but as this is all a parody of the behavior of leftists, it applies).

|11.6.08 @ 8:03PM|#

Cool Cat---You just stated reason #287 I hate RFK, Jr.: His deliberate misdefinition of fascism to tar free-marketers. I think it's a legitimate criticism that Bush too often just did the bidding of business in regulatory, tax and general domestic policy. But RFK deliberately conflates that with fascism (which it isn't) and also confuses it with free markets.

You may hate Bush, but his domestic economic policies (as distasteful as you may find them) where in no sense of the term "fascist." (And Cool Cat...you shouldn't be as dismissive as you are of Goldberg's book on this point...but otherwise you're spot on)

Again...I could go on about RFK, Jr...but I've posted way too much already.

someone|11.6.08 @ 8:05PM|#

He's also a vaccination/autism "truther." To all you libertarians who voted for Obama- everything's shaping up quite nicely on the first day, huh?

BDB|11.6.08 @ 8:07PM|#

People keep talking about "libertarians that voted for Obama".

Who are you talking about, exactly? Dave W? That's about it.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 8:10PM|#

I would have voted for him if I lived in a swing state. I still am willing to bet McCain would be worse. He's said positive things about autism+mercury himself.

Still fucking disappointing if this turns out true. As someone who has worked and wants a career working with autistic and other developmentally delayed kids, this is sort of a pet issue.

I really feel like trying to buy an ad to get him to change his mind about putting RFK Jr anywhere.

|11.6.08 @ 8:15PM|#

BDB...your right most of us didn't vote for Obama...but Brink Lindsey CATO/big cheese was on that reason/instapundit video this morning saying he did vote for Obama and the warmonger Barnett was talking about how great it was solely because he has dark skin...and how this is good because now we will have a public that trusts government more.

there were a few others who claimed obama in that article last week, but it was hardly the most distasteful thing I've read here in the past year...the mandantory alcohol breathlyzer thing from S Chapman and anything from S Young was worse.

economist|11.6.08 @ 8:15PM|#

Hazel,
And if we trash state property or property owned by subsidy beneficiaries, guess who they'll get the money to repair it from...

I live in Ohio and voted for Obama. But, like the Libertarian state reps who I voted for and lost, what difference would it have made no matter who I voted for?

Cool Cal|11.6.08 @ 8:16PM|#

I didn't mean to be dismissive of the Goldberg book per se, just to say that I wasn't simply regurgitating his sentiments.

And it's true, the takeover of government by corporations as such would be a bad thing, particularly because government is so powerful, it would lead to a de facto spoils system. I mean I don't think this is anything new or that true free market proponents disagree with. It simply infuriates me when people who should know better make little omissions and conflations that do the larger evil of creating a generally stupider public, cloud the real issues, and smear valid ideas. Either that, or like I said before, he's ignorant .... or he inherited Rosemary's famous wit.

|11.6.08 @ 8:16PM|#

libertarian democrat...Somewhat fair point about McCain. But also to be fair, if I recall (maybe I'm wrong...correct me if so) he was responding to one of these poor parents who had been suckered by the likes of RFK, Jr. at a townhall and was responding to their question. He was just responding like a politician...we'll look into it, hold hearings...blah, blah, etc. He probably didn't know what they were talking about. Can't blame him, this is fringe issue.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 8:25PM|#

I do believe it was at an on the spot town hall sort of thing.
McCain said:
It's indisputable that (autism) is on the rise amongst children, the question is what's causing it. And we go back and forth and there's strong evidence that indicates that it's got to do with a preservative in vaccines."

McCain said there's "divided scientific opinion" on the matter, with "many on the other side that are credible scientists that are saying that's not the cause of it."

Realistically, there is not much of a divided opinion among scientists. And there is almost zero evidence for the view, nevermind strong evidence.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 8:27PM|#

So yes, he did sort of try to finesse the question. I am not saying he is like RFK Jr (thank god), just that he has said things that don't make me think his appointees would be better than Obama's.

|11.6.08 @ 8:29PM|#

But, like the Libertarian state reps who I voted for and lost, what difference would it have made no matter who I voted for?

Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, "None".

Cool Cat...No worries. I read Goldberg's book, had plenty of disagreements myself. But I did think he did a good job defining fascism and pretty convincingly documented the early 20th Century American Progressive's admiration of and emulation of fascism. Once he got past about 1940 or so...he lost me. It seemed strained after that. However, his point about the continuing fascination w/ fascist aesthetics was interesting...but that's not really confined to any particular political movement. That's really just a human condition, to be attracted to that...which was also kind of his point toward the end of the book.

|11.6.08 @ 8:39PM|#

libertarian democrat--Fair enough...you're memory is better than mine...Shame on McCain then. I don't know if his appointees would be better than Obama's, perhaps not. But I think they'd at least be better than one potential appointee: RFK, Jr.

There are plenty of right-wingers who are mirror images of RFK, Jr., but McCain wouldn't appoint them because of who he is, he generally doesn't like those kind of conservatives. If he did, they wouldn't get confirmed with a Democratic Senate.

And the mercury b.s. is just one of many problems with RFK, Jr., though. Maybe it's hopeful thinking on my part, but I think if McCain was appointing people with these views, someone would slap him around and set him straight on the vaccine b.s.

But to come to back your main point, although it's a fringe thing, most politicians don't know about, it would've been better if McCain knew this was bullshit.

|11.6.08 @ 8:49PM|#

Relax folks.

RFK Jr isn't going to get EPA, or any other cabinet position.

His main talent is self-promotion, which I suspect is all this is.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 8:53PM|#

RFK hater,

While I distrust McCain's choices (and I also have quite a few other reasons to dislike RFK Jr, this is just a pet issue) I think that it is certainly possible he would pick all people better than RFK. Your position seems very reasonable to me, I just was so disappointed when I heard this and it disillusioned me a bit about his reasonableness (even as a politician I disagree with on many issues).

|11.6.08 @ 8:53PM|#

|11.6.08 @ 9:00PM|#

Jon H--Probably not...but it's given me a couple of hours to vent. Isn't that the whole purpose of the internet? To rage in front of a bunch of strangers about irrelevant, unimporant minutiae? :) Beats walking down the street muttering to myself. Which is probably not far off in my case, BTW. Again...I kid...or at least I hope.

|11.6.08 @ 9:01PM|#

We managed to avoid that, yet the hereditary political class America serems to embrace worries the hell out of me.

Tell me about it. My new congress-critter is the son of ~~a bitch~~ the old one.

|11.6.08 @ 9:08PM|#

not only is RFK Jr. an environmental hypocrite (do as I say, not as I do), he also has a LOT of personal baggage (busted for heroin, divorced his 1st wife 3 weeks before marrying 2nd wife, who was already 6 mos. pregnant!)& more issues that will come back to haunt both Kennedy and Obama.

We've had enough drug and sex scandals in D.C. We want a gov't we can trust. Obama needs to select cabinet officials with integrity, RFK JR. is not that man.

|11.6.08 @ 9:10PM|#

SIV said, "I predict "Bush nostalgia".

As I remember, 2004 was "the worst economy since Herbert Hoover." I already have nostalgia for a economy as bad as 2004.

It is a contradiction in terms.

Riiight. And nobody anywhere ever embodies any sort of ideological unorthodoxy.

|11.6.08 @ 9:11PM|#

gov't we can trust

Now that's a contradiction in terms.

libertarian democrat|11.6.08 @ 9:17PM|#

Again and again; there is no such thing as a "libertarian democrat". It is a contradiction in terms.
You show me someone who calls themself a "libertarian democrat" and I will show you a demented prick.
Got it.

NO U.

As an aside: I am not a democrat, although if I wanted into politics I probably would try as a libertarian democrat. I switched to this name because some people's brains explode when libertarian and democrat are put together. I have tended to vote democrat over republican if not given another option, since I heavily favor social issues over economic ones when I have to weigh two candidates that I mostly disagree with.

And I know quite a few libertarian democrats. OMG NOOOOOO.

nyccon|11.6.08 @ 9:18PM|#

This gasbag was my college commencement speaker back in 1996, if you can believe it. Batshit crazy.

|11.6.08 @ 9:20PM|#

And now Devin has hit on reason #122 I despise RFK, Jr.--The hypocrisy. Can someone close this thread? I'm going to be up all night responding. (And I kind of feel bad as I'm also a hypocrite. If I ever met RFK, Jr. in person I'd probably be slobbering nice and star struck. I'm a pussy and probably too polite in person. It's easy to be an anonymous hateful jerk on the internet.)

Rex|11.6.08 @ 9:41PM|#

"Again and again; there is no such thing as a "libertarian democrat". It is a contradiction in terms.
You show me someone who calls themself a "libertarian democrat" and I will show you a demented prick."

Someone here at Reason H&R wrote a few months ago that Kos was a "libertarian democrat" or a "democrat libertarian" - may be Dave W was the writer - anyone remember?

|11.6.08 @ 10:23PM|#

BDB wrote, Republicans will go nuts (calling Obama "Dear Leader" is similar to Democrats who called Bush "Chimpy McHitler" and whatnot

Where the heck have you been? The left went through a phase of calling Bush "Dear Leader" in addition to the other epithets. The problem with that is I don't know of anyone on the right who expressed anything anywhere near Obamalatry.

Seward|11.6.08 @ 10:25PM|#

What members of Congress are openly libertarian-democrats?

|11.6.08 @ 11:12PM|#

I never learned if Chavez acted on his promise to develop the natural resources in Venezuela's Roraima National Park. If so, or to what extent, that would be embarrassing for his greener fans here. Anyone know? (The municipality that serves the park is called Canaima.)

|11.6.08 @ 11:13PM|#

"since I heavily favor social issues over economic ones when I have to weigh two candidates that I mostly disagree with."

No offense LB, but this I don't quite get. Money and the ability to keep and save money is a form of power that is accessible to the individual. If a leftist administration takes power and restricts the ability for the average man to provide for himself, or increases the dependence on the gov't for his means, then the government has a lever which it can use to crush political dissent, merely by denying the "gracious" assistance it taxed from the populace in order to provide.

Argon|11.6.08 @ 11:17PM|#

First Rahm "The Shark" Emanuel, now this loon.

It's good to see the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers is moving us past the tired partisan politics of yesterday.

|11.6.08 @ 11:39PM|#

We are going into a new era with an old left. I don't think that will work.

duderman|11.7.08 @ 12:06AM|#

Since when did writing low quality articles for Rolling Stone qualify one for the cabinet? Does anyone even look to Rolling Stone for music coverage these days?

|11.7.08 @ 12:16AM|#

Isn't he the idiot who said Diebold would steal this election? They sure did a shitty job of it if they were trying.

You gotta let em win once in a while or people start getting suspicious.

anderson|11.7.08 @ 12:56AM|#

Just curious, which of

"School of the Americas, the Oligarchs, United Fruit"

do you think real and which are imagined?

The Wine Commonsewer|11.7.08 @ 1:00AM|#

You gotta let em win once in a while or people start getting suspicious.

Sheesh, we're back to paper ballots in my county. All those millions of dollars.

John|11.7.08 @ 1:09AM|#

On the issue of libertarian Democrats, the national exit poll had 43% of Americans believing that government is doing too much. McCain won 71% of these voters and Obama won 27%. For the 51% who believe government should do more, Obama won 76-23. When ones does the math, it means that about three-quarters of Obama voters believe the government should do more. So, libertarian Democrats (or at least small-l libertarians who vote Democrat) exist, but their numbers are fairly limited.

Although I will say that during the Reagan years, I would guess that probably more like 80-85% of people who voted Democrat thought the government should do more.

|11.7.08 @ 1:19AM|#

well, We all know about the School of Americas and United Fruit, and I guess since RFK Jr. is apparently one of the oligarchs he must know something about that.

|11.7.08 @ 2:07AM|#

Good for you Joe! Since you're the resident liberal here, I'm glad to hear it. I've never heard a liberal call this dishonest prick out.

joe is the least liberal here.

well maybe more liberal then that orange whatever guy.

|11.7.08 @ 3:01AM|#

smearing the name of capitalism in the blood of millions of iraqis

Oh kaaay!

The government loves shooting up kids with vaccines and they don't appreciate questions being asked about it

All righty!

Are my eyes going bad? Is this site called "Reason" or is it "Psychedelic Fruit Loops"?

ed|11.7.08 @ 7:13AM|#

Christ. Who thought the days after the election could be any worse than the days before? America is finding out that Obama is not the Democrat Party, that below him is an army of mental midgets, champing at the bit. Lawdy lawdy!

|11.7.08 @ 8:14AM|#

The problem with that is I don't know of anyone on the right who expressed anything anywhere near Obamalatry.

Wow. Did you stay in your undisclosed location for the four years following 9/11?

They were selling bronze busts of him in National Review, in between the articles about how Jesus chose him to be president and how he's the Churchill of out time.

|11.7.08 @ 8:16AM|#

It must be very strange to be President Bush. A man of extraordinary vision and brilliance approaching to genius, he can't get anyone to notice. He is like a great painter or musician who is ahead of his time, and who unveils one masterpiece after another to a reception that, when not bored, is hostile

- John Hindraker, Powerline blog, August 8, 2005.

I love that quote. It's better than dark coffee.

Guy Montag|11.7.08 @ 9:19AM|#

Michael C. Moynihan,

You won't be getting invited to many Cosmotarian events with talk like this. And don't expect to be invited to any guiltless grillings at the Weigel estate either!

Guy Montag|11.7.08 @ 9:23AM|#

So, this particular Kennedy is 'unaware' of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center or that JFK is the one who transformed the School of the Americas into what it is today?*

Amazing.

*I like them both the way they are. He seems to disagree.

ed|11.7.08 @ 9:55AM|#

On the bright side, there are fewer Kennedys than bullets. Barely. Not that I would condone wasting bullets in such a frivolous manner, given the current value of brass.
Anyway, one less soon...very soon...

|11.7.08 @ 9:59AM|#

Hey! Every new American President gets a honeymoon period.

Obama should get one too. At least until January.

|11.7.08 @ 11:04AM|#

Anyway, one less soon...very soon...

Whoa! Tasteless, bro!

So, this particular Kennedy is 'unaware' of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center or that JFK is the one who transformed the School of the Americas into what it is today?*

Oh, yeah. That.

BakedPenguin|11.7.08 @ 11:18AM|#

[Bush] is like a great painter or musician who is ahead of his time, and who unveils one masterpiece after another to a reception that, when not bored, is hostile...

Too bad he didn't try to cut off his ear, like van Gogh. Considering Bush, he probably would have started at the neck.

BakedPenguin|11.7.08 @ 11:22AM|#

Whoa! Tasteless, bro!

East Bay Ray, the guitarist for the Dead Kennedys, was once asked if he thought his group playing in Dallas on the anniversary of JFK's killing was tasteless. He replied "Yeah, but the assassination was pretty tasteless, too."

economist|11.7.08 @ 11:26AM|#

JFred,
I never gave Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, or Bush II a honeymoon period. Presidents should be considered guilty until they prove themselves innocent beyond any reasonable doubt. That goes for members of Congress, too.

|11.7.08 @ 1:00PM|#

He replied "Yeah, but the assassination was pretty tasteless, too."

Brilliant.

|11.7.08 @ 4:55PM|#

While I would never vote for Chavez over Mr. T I would advise you to read "reasearch" by Francisco Rodriguez like I suspect you RFK jr.

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/venezuela_research_2008_03.pdf

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