McCain Takes the Fight to the Enemy

In the Denver Airport's mile-long security line, returning Democratic delegates were trying to cheer themselves up about John McCain's inspired choice of Sarah Palin as running mate. "Worst pick ever!" an obnoxious young fellow in a loud "Yes We Can" shirt bellowed, to nobody in particular. "Worst pick since Quayle!" The desperation was showing.

In one of the many other airport lines created by United Airlines, soberer delegates were shaking their heads with reluctant respect for McCain's stones. "Choosing Biden was the safe move," a Washington state Democrat said (quotes are approximate). "Choosing Palin was bold."

That seems exactly right. Biden's qualities are almost perfectly tailored to shore up precisely what people fear about Obama: Where Obama is almost dangerously inexperienced, Biden has been on the Foreign Service Committee since the Truman Administration. Where Obama is an arugula-nibbling, sophisticated Other, Biden is a lunchbucketeer who talks like Uncle Festus. Where Obama has trouble in the Rust Belt, Biden can't shut his trap about "the lineworker" and other fetishized regular Joes from Scranton. The whole play is defensive, and no matter how seemingly perfect Biden's qualities seem to fit Obama's needs, at the end of the day...he's still Joe Biden.

Palin, too, complements McCain -- he's old and crusty, she's young and hot, he is still distrusted by social conservatives, she's a social-con darling, he's been in the Senate about as long as Joe Biden, she's a newish governor several thousand miles away. But the strategic calculation is about offense. You want an identity politics election? Bring it on! Think all those wayward Hillary voters are going to automatically come back to the fold? How about a candidate who's not afraid of a strong woman! And nothing reinforces the tattered but still-effective "maverick" reputation than choosing a largely unknown woman who is "as libertarian as you can hope for on a major ticket."

One urgent theme among Democrats in 2008, from the netroots to the top of the ticket, is that the party needs to come out swinging. Learn from the pugilism of the Gingrich Revolution. Forcefully rebut any attempts at swift-boating. Run toward, not away from, national security. Go on offense.

But it was McCain, not Obama, who used his veepstakes to take the fight directly to the enemy. A risky and potentially disastrous move, given that Palin has zero record on national security during a time of war and would be serving a president who could keel over at any moment...but it's a bold one.

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  • ||

    Wasn't Dondero fantasising about this for the past year?

  • ||

    Well, that's the kiss of death.

  • ||

    "as libertarian as you can hope for on a major ticket."

    Yeah, but it still means voting for McCAIN.

  • ||

    ...and hope he dies.

  • ||

    I've got to say, McCain surprised me with this one. He's picked a far better VP candidate than Obama did.

    -jcr

  • ||

    Just because you projected her as the pick is no justification for this kind of ridiculousness! Bold??? I guess driving your car off a 1,000 foot cliff is "bold", too ... I mean, c'mon! "Reckless". That's the word I would use. I don't see this as "taking the fight to the enemy" at all. It's more like "stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime." "My friends, hehehe, look at this shiny dime!" McCain's strongest argument in this whole campaign is shot to heck! Is Palin "ready to lead"??? Seriously?

  • ||

    I defy anyone here to point to a possible choice that is anymore small governement than Palin. Further, while she is not pro-legalization she is better on the drug war than anti-Rave Act Biden. If you care about small government, you should be happy when either party picks someone who beleives in the concept. He could have taken Lieberman or Huckabe. Stop thinking about the horse race for a second and think about ideology.

  • MTF||

    Can we tell who Max here supports?

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    McCain is obviously taking this election as one big joke and has absolutely no intention of winning this thing. Fucking ridiculous. Obama has more relevant "executive experience" managing a national campaign with an expanse far beyond our borders for 18 months, than this ludicrous Journalism B.A. beauty queen governing elk, moose, and whatever the fuck else for a couple of years.

  • Dagny T.||

    It will be interesting to see if Obama can peel himself off the ropes (like it appeared he was about to do after last night) and go on the offensive, or if he'll get trapped dodging Palin-related jabs.

  • ||

    McCain hit the mark - and I support Obama.

    C'mon, he appealed to the fundie base and the middle of the spectrum at the same time. Be objective!

    Would two old, out of touch white guys grasping at each other next week appeal to the mushy middle?

    Hell, no.

    Plus, she does not have the stench of Bush on her and her religious fundamentalism will not appear to the electorate as a negative.

    They are two economic lightweights but very few will notice that.

  • ||

    I can't believe Obamatrons think that saying "this is a terrible pick" doesn't appear as dense as a neutron star. Or desperate. Or facetious.

  • ||

    Yeah. Hillary supporters are going to be support a pro-lifer who does not believe in global warming and evolution because McCain picked a woman.

    Way to be patronizing buddy. It is not like women vote with their head instead of their vagina right ?

    And btw. Wanna know why one is bold and one is safe ? Because one is desperate and the other is confident and therefore needs a governing partner rather than an attractive running mate.

  • ||

    It will be interesting to see if Obama can peel himself off the ropes

    Doubtful. He expected to be coming off a triumphant speech and McCain's crew just sucked the wind right out of his sails by announcing this today. Fucking masterstroke. I honestly did not expect anything this smooth from McCain.

  • Dagny T.||

    Epi,

    Neutron stars are facetious? My knowledge of astronomy must be shakier than I thought.

    Supernovas are total attention whores, though. Even I know that.

  • Seward||

    In 2004 roughly 1% of voters made their decision based on who the top of the ticket picked for Veep (or so I have heard regarding the polling on the subject). I don't see why this election will be any different.

  • Dagny T.||

    Fucking masterstroke.

    Agreed. Obama desperately needed the momentum, and now he'll be stuck playing the same old dodgy Dem game.

  • ||

    Neutron stars are facetious?

    They'll lie straight to your face. As their radiation pulses peel your skin off.

    Supernovas are total attention whores, though. Even I know that.

    Everyone knows that.

  • are we not ben||

    It's a calculated pick - one that McCain knows will shore up the conservative base and hopes will appeal to independent voters. Remember those? You know, the middle 20% who will actually decide the election.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    shrike,
    All of that will be irrelevant. People only have 2 months to get to no this governor form the great state of Alaska with a population smaller than the county I live in and also is a terrible speaker. Shrill, ebbing vocal inflections and a PTA soccer mom demeanor will be a huge turnoff to many. Pro-life, anti-environmentalism, and adherence to 15th century geology will repel many moderates. I see this as nothing but a big FAIL.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Err...get to know, that is.

  • ||

    Finally, a writer who at least mentions the most important attribute. She's pretty hot. No one mentions this on the news channels after showing all these pictures of her. I'm thinking, what's wrong with you people. Are you daft or just gay?

  • Seward||

    Episiarch,

    In the world of blogging more often than not people are caught up in the moment. I first realized this after the Dean campaign faltered in 2004. I'll wait and see if this is a masterstroke, but I doubt that it is. In other words, come October this will still likely be a close race and things likemthe debates and such will be of far greater importance.

  • ||

    Walking on a freeway is also very bold.

    Does not make it any less foolish

  • ||

    I see this as nothing but a big FAIL.

    Are you sure it isn't just that you want it to be a big fail?

  • Dagny T.||

    They'll lie straight to your face. As their radiation pulses peel your skin off.

    The Pulsar Anti-Defamation League will be in touch with you shortly.

  • ||

    Dwayne comes in and epitomizes the desperation on the first try!

    "15th century geology" is very cute, Dwayne, but she's not a flat-earther. From the one relevant quote I've seen so far, she's advocating a nuanced if unscientific position.

    Kinda like the Ds do with economics.

  • ||

    Seward, I think Dagny got it right when she said

    Obama desperately needed the momentum, and now he'll be stuck playing the same old dodgy Dem game

    In politics, there is the short game and the long game. Whether this move works for the long game, we'll have to wait and see. But in the short game it was a great move.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Seward,
    The difference is McCain is a rather old feller who looks like he could kick the bucket at any moment. I agree this would be far less relevant if he were younger. Unlike Obama, she has no idea about the national economy, foreign policy, education, etc. He might as well have picked up a bum off the street to run the country.

  • ||

    He might as well have picked up a bum off the street to run the country.

    Oh, I didn't know the President "ran the country"...is he like the floor boss in the factory and we're all just helpless cogs in the great machine of America?

    GOOD IDEA: Stop overstating the role of the President. He isn't and never will be the keystone of America or something.

    BAD IDEA: Be a hyperbole-spewing troll who just WISHES that what he's saying is true; oh yeah, and say that the President "runs to country", proving statist cred.

  • Seward||

    Episiarch,

    I guess it depends on how much it distracts from what Obama did yesterday. Also, are you guys factoring Gustav into your calculations?

  • ||

    Uh ... Dagny and Episiarch ... the world has known about this classic steal-the-thunder move for weeks, now, absent the final detail. How is it that you're at all surprised?

    More importantly, how do you figure that McCain's pick will get Repubs off their asses and into the polling stations? Rove knew that was the key to success. All McCain's done here is to guarantee that your average white trash Repub is gonna continue to warm his couch ... and maybe pop another brewski or two while waiting to see whether the black guy or the chick get into the White House. McCain lost an opportunity to show he was smart. He used it, instead, to show that he's only interested in playing games.

    It would be worth it, though, just to be a fly on the wall in Hillary's office when McCain kicks the bucket 2 months into his term and leaves Palin as the "first female President" with Nancy Pelosi the next in line. Hee hee. THAT would be priceless.

  • ||

    shrike,
    All of that will be irrelevant. People only have 2 months to get to no this governor form the great state of Alaska with a population smaller than the county I live in and also is a terrible speaker. Shrill, ebbing vocal inflections and a PTA soccer mom demeanor will be a huge turnoff to many. Pro-life, anti-environmentalism, and adherence to 15th century geology will repel many moderates. I see this as nothing but a big FAIL.


    Dwayne, I am a pro-science, pro-choice, left leaning LPer. I invest in biotech and solar - the Bushnecks hate those markets.

    But this is MARKETING 101 and they passed.

    McCain and Ruby G or Willard Romney was a SURE loser.

    Mark my words, in two weeks Palin will have higher positive numbers than any of the other three ticket-toppers.

  • ||

    if the "world has known", James, that this was coming (and I agree with you there), why DID it take the Democrat momentum away?

    Apparently, it's not as obvious as you'd like to think it is.

    And what exactly would you have had McCain to do to "GOTV for Republicans" anyway?

  • ||

    Yeah. Hillary supporters are going to be support a pro-lifer who does not believe in global warming and evolution because McCain picked a woman.>>

    Palin is aimed at women 40 and above. For that crowd, abortion rights aren't as big a priority. Evolution? McCain is hardly a bible beater.

    I cant vote for Obama or McCain, but I have to agree with Welch. Bold, smart move.

  • doofus||

    It is not like women vote with their head instead of their vagina right ?

    That's what Kennedy, Clinton, and John Edwards was saying.

    I for one am sick to death of seeing Bush, McCain, and Obama's ugly mugs on my TV each day. I'd love to wake up and see Mrs Palin explaing her latest blablabla. At least I'd leave the TV on after I turn down the sound.

  • Dagny T.||

    the world has known about this classic steal-the-thunder move for weeks, now, absent the final detail.

    It's the final detail that makes this move fly. Romney or Pawlenty wouldn't have stolen much thunder at all. But very few talking heads were seriously predicting he'd go with Palin.

  • ||

    why DID it take the Democrat momentum away?



    DID it? Haven't seen any evidence of that, except in this thread.

    And Romney would have been the better choice. I agree that NOONE thought he'd pick Palin, because it just doesn't make much sense from a "winning the election" point of view.

  • Seward||

    John,

    I defy anyone here to point to a possible choice that is anymore small governement than Palin.

    I guess that depends on how one defines "possible choice."

  • ||

    "as libertarian as you can hope for on a major ticket."

    Maybe today she is. But there was a month or two late last year when I was hoping for better.

    I agree this is a great political gambit. Today should have belonged to Obama. All last week, the whole nation was getting a pudgy over him, and if he could only pull off the cherry-on-top speech at the end it would launch his poll numbers high enough to separate from McCain. And he hits the home run, but instead of Obamamania, the headlines are all McCain Veep. Now we'll see if the GOP can have a convention without pissing everybody off.

  • ||

    James, just the reactions of Obama supporters and their desperate, furious spinning of this shows that it "worked". Even if it's only an appearance of taking away Democrat momentum, it still "worked".

  • ||

    DID it? Haven't seen any evidence of that, except in this thread.

    I don't go to a lot of dem web sites, but the post count on democraticunderground and salon.com on articles about palin are way larger than the post counts about Obama's speech last night. they might be saying it was a dumb move and McCain is secretly working for the dems, but they are still talking about Gov. Palin, not Sen. Obama.

    is that evidence?

  • ||

    McCain pissed in their cornflakes on what should have been Christmas morning for them, and they're standing around wondering what the fuck happened and where did all their presents go.

    Yes, that was some tortured metaphoring.

  • ||

    And Romney would have been the better choice.

    Romney would suck the excitment out of a room full of coed naked virgins.

  • ||

    But very few talking heads were seriously predicting he'd go with Palin

    Or that she would accept. Don't forget that part.

  • ||

    Sure ... why not. But, personally, I'll be waiting to see how the next few weeks play out, instead of judging momentum from a few hours worth of blog posts.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    TAO,
    "Stop overstating the role of the President. He isn't and never will be the keystone of America or something."

    FDR, Lincoln, Wilson, Kennedy, Johnson, Washington were not keystones of the American government, which indeed, in a familiar manner of speaking, "run the country?" Given the significant powers granted the president by our Constitution you can be damn skippy that that some high school beauty queen leading the country is simply unrealistic and fanciful. What will this PTA mom say to Putin? How will she respond to the economic crises? McCain talks about the importance of national security and being the commander in chief of the armed forces and yet you put a laughingstock one step away from the White House. I'm fucking pissed that McCain decided to throw away this election on an idiotic prank.

  • Seward||

    James Butler,

    That was basically what I was getting at.

    ___________________________

    Can anyone explain the Matanuska Dairy thing?

  • ||

    Hee hee. "Pissing in their cornflakes". THAT's funny! Especially when they've all calmed down about last night, by now, in anticipation of whatever McCain was going to do, this morning. And BTW, I find it difficult to believe that McCain did his own pissing ... maybe "drained his colostomy bag into their granola" might be more apt.

  • ||

    American government, which indeed, in a familiar manner of speaking, "run the country?"

    Whoops, mistake number one.

    you can be damn skippy that that some high school beauty queen leading the country is simply unrealistic and fanciful. What will this PTA mom say to Putin? How will she respond to the economic crises?

    First, you're a bona-fide sexist. Second, the military can speak to Putin for her, and third, I hope she does jack and shit about economic crises. Hooray! Frankly, any of her responses are going to be better than Joe "Warhawk and Drug Warrior" Biden.

    Finally...it's a freakin' holiday weekend. Get some bourbon and V and chill. out.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    I do agree with Episarch, shrike, and others about this being a good move in the short term for media attention and a blunt to Obama's increasing momentum. But like James, over the next few weeks, once the novelty fizzles out, it will be seen very clearly for the disaster that this is.

    Shrike,
    I agree the others would have been sure losers. But if he wanted to go with a female candidate there were far better choices he could have selected. Any female would have garnered him media attention so he didn't have to pick some inexperienced former mayor of a city hardly anyone has heard of. There's Elizabeth Dole, for one, and a few others who would be qualified to take over if McCain's heart gave out or something.

  • bubba||

    Romney might be a good economic advisor. Treasury or Commerce.

    Married woman strongly support McCain. This might give them a reason to show up at the polls and actually vote.

    Maybe he'll get a few of the younger/single women, too. Or the older ones who would otherwise have voted for Clinton. Especially since Obama is kicking the New (Clinton) Democrats to the curb.

  • bubba||

    Elizabeth Dole doesn't exactly fit the "maverick" profile.

  • Poke.||

    I dunno. John McCain & Sarah Palin? Doesn't look like a Republican ticket to me. Looks more like the ticket of some weenie third party. (No offense, Libertarians.)

  • Seward||

    Episiarch,

    James, just the reactions of Obama supporters...

    I think they are reacting appropriately actually. The best defense is a good offense. In other words, if this is an announcement meant to deflate the fortunes of the Obama campaign, then try to deflate that announcement.

  • ||

    "Choosing Biden was the safe move," a Washington state Democrat said (quotes are approximate). "Choosing Palin was bold."

    Running the ball in the 4th quarter is the safe move. Spreading the field and airing it out is bold. When do teams pick each strategy again?

    But it was McCain, not Obama, who used his veepstakes to take the fight directly to the enemy. I'm not so sure about that. If Obama intends to fight McCain on the turf of national security and foreign policy, which he shows every intention of doing, Biden is a powerful weapon, not just a shield. There's more to the offense/defense question than the choosing of the VP - there's also how they're used.

  • ||

    Better watch it, Matt, you just called Sarah Palin "hot". dhex, smacky, and Shem are gonna come in here and start screaming sexism and misogyny pretty soon.

  • ||

    Romney would have been a freaking disaster for McCain. I'm bummed he didn't choose Romney, it would have been the nail in the coffin.

    People don't immediately hate Sarah Palin, so that right there makes her a better choice than Mittens.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    bubba where are you getting those stats? I highly doubt married women are supporting a skirt-chasing adulterer. In fact, speaking of that, may this have had something to do with this outrageous decision? Cindy beginning to get a little too saggy and a bit too boring? Perhaps some fresh meat?

    TAO,
    I'm no sexist, but a Margaret Thatcher, hell even a Hillary Clinton, this stupid wench, who didn't even know what in gawd's name a VP does a mere two weeks ago, she is not. I really thought McCain had a chance until today. Alot of fellow Republicans are extremely pissed and a couple have even told me that after the speech last night and this self-destructive pick by McCain they would vote for Obama.

  • ||

    The wife's more fanatically libertarian than I, and she says she loves Palin... before offering quite a few caveats.

    I hadn't really heard much about her, and I can't say I approve of everything, but I can certainly say I like her better than Joe Biden or Barack Obama... or John McCain.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    "If Obama intends to fight McCain on the turf of national security and foreign policy, which he shows every intention of doing, Biden is a powerful weapon, not just a shield."

    LOL! Imagine that! The 18 month governor of the caribou and 700,000 folks discussing foreign policy and national security with Joe Biden! This is unbelievable.

  • ||

    The guy who said that experience and national security cred are the most important issues for voters to consider picked Sarah Palin.

    The voters and pundits who've spent several months tut-tutting about how horrible it is for the Democrats to have - ahem - "affirmative action candidates" and getting excited about them just watched the serious old white male pick Sarah Palin.


    I wonder if Mr. Nice Guy is going to show up and talk about how doomed the Republicans are for trying to make an historic pick instead of someone with a big reputation and crossover appeal. Oddly enough, I haven't seen him all day.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Hey JayDubya, I like her too. Better than the other three. As likable as she is though, she is nowhere near qualified to step in as President of the United States. And that's all that matters. Joe Biden isn't likable but nobody questions whether he's qualified to step in if necessary. How much moreso with decrepit McCain where that possibility is very real. That's why I can't understand who advised him to pull this preposterous nonsense.

  • ||

    I think it remains to be seen that she won't be able to stand up to Biden.

    I also don't really view either move as defensive or offensive, but I'd agree with Welch that this was a bold move.

    Both Biden and Palin as veeps complement something that is lacking in the would be PotUSes.

    Also, looking more closely at how hardcore fiscal conservative she is, I'm quickly growing admiration. She seems an inspired pick AND quite a thunder stealer.

  • ||

    In 2004 roughly 1% of voters made their decision based on who the top of the ticket picked for Veep (or so I have heard regarding the polling on the subject). I don't see why this election will be any different.

    How many states were decided by < 1 percent in 2004?
    2 (Iowa and New Mexico for 12 electoral votes).

    In a close race, it could matter.

  • ||

    The guy who said that experience and national security cred are the most important issues for voters to consider picked Sarah Palin.

    The guy who campaigned crowing about his not supporting the Iraq fiasco picked who?

  • ||

    JayDubya | August 29, 2008, 5:38pm | #

    I think it remains to be seen that she won't be able to stand up to Biden.


    I think a whole lot remains to be seen about her. She's the rookie governor of Alaska with no national profile. Nobody knows if she's a good debator, or good on the stump, or good shaking hands in diners, or good as a policy wonk, or what.

    We're talking about the effect of McCain picking someone with her resume and head shot on today's news cycle. Beyond that, there's a lot of wait-and-see left to be played.

  • ||

    Wow, a "you, too" comment. Deep, man.

  • ||

    "Hey JayDubya, I like her too. Better than the other three.

    As likable as she is though, she is nowhere near qualified to step in as President of the United States."

    Well, to be fair, I mean I like her on the issues to a great extent. There's plenty to disagree with there, but it's hard to find a perfect political fit (mine's Ron Paul).

    All the experience in the world doesn't matter much to me if that experience informs you to do the wrong thing. Also, I'm sure this line is already pretty tired, but she'll be the only one bringing ANY executive experience.

    "And that's all that matters. Joe Biden isn't likable but nobody questions whether he's qualified to step in if necessary."

    I would argue that because I don't like him, and because I don't like him on the issues, that he's not qualified. :P

    "How much moreso with decrepit McCain where that possibility is very real. That's why I can't understand who advised him to pull this preposterous nonsense."

    The prospect of McCain's advanced age giving this woman the Presidency only serves to make the ticket much more appealing. McCain is all over the map. I'm not sure where his principles lie. I heard all I needed to about Obama's principles last night.

    I'll still be voting for Bob Barr, but McCain's choice in VPs gets a nod of approval from me.

  • ||

    To torture metaphors a bit more...

    Running the ball in the 4th quarter is only the safe move if you are up by a few touchdowns and are primarily interested in killing the clock. Sure, if the game is basically over don't screw anything up. If it is contest, you need to attack.

    Teams that are constantly on the aggressive, always attacking, always looking to score and get every advantage win in close contests. Playing defensive only works when you are monumentally ahead.

    Obama did this initially by attacking Hillary in the primary's. He was aided in this by his position against an unpopular Iraq war. It will be difficult to attack McCain on Iraq for a couple reasons.

    1) It seems like the surge is working, and no one in America attacks a succesful war.

    2) He picked a pro-war VP

    The key for Obama is to identify a new way to attack, and soon.

  • ||

    I think Episiarch got it right above--this is definitely a good short-term move, and it may prove a good long-term move. The immediate move to throw any dirt possible on Palin by some here and elsewhere doesn't do anything to change that. Time will tell, but I think she's a good move for McCain, and I think he caught some people napping.

    This is kind of an only-Nixon-can-go-to-China moment, because Obama would've been totally dead if he'd gone this type of direction. Which is why the HRC choice that some Democrats seemed to think so dreamy would've been insane. McCain's experience is well established (whatever we may think of its quality), and he has the luxury of going the protege route. While I think Obama made a mistake in his VP selection, I don't think he necessarily made a fatal one. He had to pick an established candidate to remain competitive.

    joe's right to point out that the big question mark here is her ability to withstand national scrutiny and to campaign well outside of Alaska. I think she's likely to be good in the "mavericky" way that McCain used to be, with a little less of the taint that he's long enjoyed. However, that doesn't mean that she's a good speaker, etc. We'll see.

  • ||

    lannychiu,

    There's running to run out the clock, then there's shifting to a ball-control game.

    I don't think picking Joe Biden is taking a knee.

  • Lefiti||

    "as libertarian as you can hope for on a major ticket."

    You libertarians are willing to swallow a lot of social conservative shit for the sake of the Second Ammendment.

  • SIV||

    Palin is aimed at women 40 and above.

    Too bad there aren't any younger women who aspire to something like Palin's success in
    family and career who might identify with her blue collar background.Perhaps a whole demographic that doesn't usually turn out in force because they are turned off by politics.
    If there was such a group they might defy expectation and vote for someone they can identify with.

  • ||

    Younger women hate John McCain.

    Obama has a 23-point lead over McCain among 18-35, and there's a gender gap there on top.

  • ||

    I meant to note this when Biden got tapped--guess the war's off the table? Looks like maybe it is, at least when compared to 2006, because Biden is clearly a pro-war guy, not that far away from McCain, really.

    Lefiti,

    I don't see a lot of libertarians saying that they'll vote for McCain. Even if Palin were one of us--which she isn't--that wouldn't make McCain better for us. If I had to pick between him and Obama, I'd pick him, but only because of the current composition of Congress. But I have other choices, like the George Washington ghola or Babar, so I'm not voting for him. Obama with a GOP Congress would be even better, by the way, if I can't have my libertarians.

  • ||

    Pro Lib,

    What? Biden is against the war, and has been for years. You know, like a majority of Americans. You may see him as close to McCain, but among people who do think there's a difference between the two parties, that's not how it's seen.

  • SIV||

    Pro Libertate,

    She spoke well today.

  • ||

    a pro-life position is not inimical to being a libertarian

  • ||

    Just found an article with Palin giving some genuine, if modest, praise for Ron Paul.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    "Also, I'm sure this line is already pretty tired, but she'll be the only one bringing ANY executive experience."

    That isn't entirely true. She has been governor for as long as Obama has been managing a national campaign. So far, I'd give Obama an A+ in executive experience if this is what we're going to use as a measure.

  • BakedPenguin||

    When do teams pick each strategy again?

    And what happens when teams get conservative in the 4th quarter? Better hope the Dems got some good blockers, joe, because otherwise they're going to be playing the prevent defense soon.

  • SIV||

    There are a lot of non-voters in the young women demographic.Every 4 years I hear the Dems are going to turn them out for the first time.
    Maybe this time they do vote only not for the Party that thinks they own them.

  • ||

    joe,

    I meant war in general. I think we can agree that for a variety of reasons, not all rational or good, Iraq is not a center-stage issue.

  • ||

    You libertarians are willing to swallow a lot of social conservative shit for the sake of the Second Ammendment.

    Not all LPers. I own guns but the gun-freaks rival the aborto-freaks in single issue psychosis.

  • Seward||

    If the "political fortunes" of John McCain in the summer of 2007 and those of HRC at roughly the same tell us anything it is that "heat of the moment," conventional wisdom is pretty useless.

  • ||

    "In a brilliant move today, the Lakers suspended Kobe Bryant for life and signed little-known Darko Milicic to replace him, totally stealing the thunder and momentum of the woeful but upstart Denver Nuggets, surprise winners of Game 6 Thursday night. The ingenious ploy completely deflated the Nuggets and their fans, who instead of basking in the glory of forcing game 7, jabbered wildly about the lunacy of the Lakers' decision. Momentum must now be decidedly on the Lakers' side!"

  • ||

    Every 4 years I hear the Dems are going to turn them out for the first time.



    But this is the first time text messaging and YouTube will play a role in getting out the vote ... and Obama is all over that. Compare to McCain. Again, Karl Rove, in his evil genius, knew that getting out the vote is the only important thing in an election, and don't think that lesson hasn't been learned by the Dems. Reflect back on what his team did during the primary campaign, and how superb their efforts at fundraising using new technology have been. McCain is too inbred to have learned anything from that, and Rove's a bit of a pariah to Repubs, at this point. The Dems might be the only party that can actually take advantage of Rove's wisdom in this race.

  • ||

    And what happens when teams get conservative in the 4th quarter? They win, unless they get too conservative, or the other team's Hail Marys actually work.

    Nonetheless, funny how quickly last weeks' discussion of a close race disappeared. Just the fact that McCain felt the need to pull a stunt - however it works out - demonstrates the state of the race. It confirms what some were saying about it, and refutes what others were saying about it.

    Pro Lib,

    I meant war in general. OK. Barack Obama never ran on an an "anti-war-in-general" position. He ran on a "better judgement/less reflexively belligerent" position. I don't see Biden undermining that at all.

  • ||

    Uh ... mashup ...

    1) Dems might be able to use Rove's strategy
    2) Obama's team is really good at using new tech to do that

  • ||

    Are people actually suggesting Mitt Romney would have been a better pick? Just what the Republicans need, another rush chairman.

    Too bad Palin can't lay off the social conservative stuff. The rare candidate who doesn't look programmed to suck off the public tit, the day she got shot out the womb.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    I thought this was an interesting perspective:

    "Honors student in international relations, JD and editor of Harvard Law Review, civil rights attorney, Constitutional Law lecturer, 8 years as a representative of over 200,000 people, crafting laws for a state of over 12 million. 3 years as a US Senator and member of the Foreign Relations Committee.

    Syracuse-educated lawyer, Chairman of Senate Foreign Relations, former Chairman of Senate Judiciary. Massive record of legislative accomplishments.

    #894 of 899 in his graduating class. Career of 10 combat missions and five crashed aircraft. Helped pass such great legislation as the Enron loophole.

    B.A. in Journalism, focused on sports reporting. Sportscaster for a small TV station. Mayor of a town of 5,000. Governor of a state less than two years." - Lawnchair

  • Serf||

    You are right dwayne. We need to establish a permanent ruling class of elite university educated lawyers.That is what "change" is all about.They understand ordinary lower caste subjects like me.

  • ||

    Obama has a 23-point lead over McCain among 18-35, and there's a gender gap there on top.

    I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that Obama is way better looking?

  • ||

    yes, Dwayne, partisan-tripe and spin is so goddamned fascinating that...wait, what was I doing again? I was distracted by your awesome talking points!

  • Elemenope||

    If I may, the first question of the vice-presidential debate should be:

    Let's say you win the vice-presidency and are in office. The president has just died. What are the first five things you would do?

    I have no idea how either would answer it, but it is an important fucking question, if for no other reason than to see if they have a clue.

  • ||

    As a moderately libertarian woman, I'll throw in my perspectives.

    I haven't made up my mind about Palin yet. It improved my opinion of McCain somewhat because it shows that he has stronger small-government leanings than was previously apparant. It also shows his appreciation for old-fashioned individualism. Not just in picking an Alaskan moose-hunting woman, but for showing he has a mind of his own.

    The drawbacks are, of course, that Palin is a creationist and anti-abortion Christian conservative.

    Obviously liberal feminists aren't going to go for her. But Hillary Clinton supporters aren't necessarily all die-hard pro-lifers. And they aren't necessarily all political activists either. There's probably a fair number of working class white women with centrist values who Palin will appeal to.

    I'm not one of them. I'm personally almost as sick of social conservatives as I am of economic 'liberals' (for lack of a better term).

    The real downside to Palin is that it makes McCain seem more like a classic social conservative like Bush. That shores up his base, but probably makes people who are turned off by Bush's religiosity more nervous.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Yes, I do think our wisest and most educated men should rule. And yes, I prefer a magna cum laude graduate in international relations to a backwoods beauty queen with a B.A. in sports reporting.

  • ||

    I'm a big fan of intellect, but I'm mainly an issues voter, and I wish more people could honestly say the same thing.

    So if you give me stupid but agrees with me and can enact policies I can agree with, or someone brilliant who can go against everything I believe in, I don't need much time to make that call.

    Bill Clinton is a good example: the man is brilliant and charismatic, a Rhodes scholar. He's also unethical scum who I can't agree with on virtually any political issue.

  • ||

    Well, this is from DailyKos, but, if true, it certainly raises questions about Palin's libertarian bona fides:

    "Sarah Palin left the finances of her town Wasilla in tatters when she moved on in 2002 (h/t xgz). She wanted a legacy as mayor, it seems, and pushed hard for the town to build a hyper-expensive sports complex. But Palin screwed the process up badly. Instead of buying the land for the complex when it was offered, her administration allowed a developer named Gary Lundgren to snap it up. Then Wasilla tried to seize the land from Lundgren through eminent domain. In the end, what with court costs Wasilla paid at least $ 1.7 million for land it could have bought for less than one tenth that sum - if the purchase had been handled properly. For this incompetence, Wasilla is still paying a steep price: higher taxes and cutbacks in services."

    Links to sources in original post.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Excellent find Mark. This is exactly why intellectual and academic qualifications must have precedence to questions of ideological agreement. Unless a statesman has been throughly trained in the science of political administration, then no matter what stances he takes, he will be sure to bungle the whole thing up as the incompetent, unfit Palin did to the village of Wasilla. Suppose you agreed with her on the issues, and thought the idea of a tiny village of 5,000 having a massive sports complex was a fine idea. Well that's great but of what use is congruence with your own opinions, seeing that she is unequal to the task of carrying the idea out with skillful, workmanlike competence. Well then, she might as never had the good idea to begin with. That's why qualification must come first. Then you decide among the QUALIFIED whose worldview you align more closely with.

  • Ronaldo||

    "Way to be patronizing buddy. It is not like women vote with their head instead of their vagina right ?"

    That depends on the lunar cycle.

  • Del||

    "He might as well have picked up a bum off the street to run the country."

    Unfortunately for McCain, Biden was no longer available.

  • ||

    You are right dwayne. We need to establish a permanent ruling class of elite university educated lawyers.That is what "change" is all about.They understand ordinary lower caste subjects like me.

    In addition to being too popular, too eloquent, too good looking, and too admired, Barack Obama is too smart and too well-educated.

  • daveinboca||

    Obama picked Biden to run out the clock, thinking that Romney or Pawlenty or some crony like Lieberman would be easy to overcome given all the "techies" & emo going in BHO's direction.

    Palin is the Iron Bar on Obama's House of Cards. If she can show that she, Palin, is the true change candidate, McCain has a good shot.

    As we know, Obama is working with a corrupt collection of senior Dems in the House & Senate who have amassed a 9% [nine percent!!] approval rating since taking over in 2006. Bush at 27% is THREE times as popular!!

    Sarah's narrative is that she started as a reformer, and now the corrupt Dems are condescendingly saying that she was the mayer of a town of 9000, precisely the numbe of VOTES Hair-Plug Plagiarizer Biden got in his run for POTUS!!! And the corrupt Dems disparage Alaska as small population---just like Delaware, which has around 50,000 more souls than Alaska. And remember that great sophisticated state of Arkansas, that Clinton robbed & looted & raped?

    Tonight cueball McCarville on Larry King started his disparaging put-downs, only to be put in place by an exceedingly smart & good looking Repub woman named S.......... McCain made a quick kick [remember them?] & the corrupt machine thugs are trying to regain balance. I want Sarah to knock Hair-Plug Plagiarizer out of the park in the VP debate, and hopefully he will bloviate until he floats off into oblivion.

  • ||

    Let's say you win the vice-presidency and are in office. The president has just died. What are the first five things you would do?

    Me? Personally?

    1. Run in circles and scream like a little girl. "Aaaaaaa! Aaaaaaa!!!! AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"

    2. Pause, curl up in ball, repeat "oh shit oh shit oh shit."

    3. Find political advisor who got me into this, beat the snot out of him.

    4. "AAaaaaaaaaaa!!! Aaaaaaaaaa! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!"

    5. Stiff drink.

  • ||

    Upon reflection, perhaps I'm better suited for something at the sub-cabinet level.

  • ||

    Step 1: Appoint Ron Paul to any and all positions that he wants.

    Step 2: Abolish everything I don't like or just ignore it by firing someone and not appointing anyone to replace them.

    Step 3: Pretend I know what I'm doing.

    Hey, it would work better than a Bush term!

  • Del||

    Last night Obama said "This race has never been about me. It's about you".

    Which begs the question: then why were you campaigning in Europe?

  • ||

    Step 1: order full release of the strategic petroleum reserve
    Step 2: ask the congress to resume coinage
    Step 3: nationalize the federal reserve, in preparation for dissolution
    Step 4: withdraw all US forces from foreign countries
    Step 5: suspend all foreign aid payments
    Step 6: command all federal employees to comply fully with the bill of rights or face immediate dismissal

    That should do for the first day.

    -jcr

  • ||

    " I highly doubt married women are supporting a skirt-chasing adulterer. "

    You wish.

    -jcr

  • ||

    Damn it, hit the submit button accidentally.

    Anyhow, women sure as hell supported JFK and Bubba The Slut. You might wish that women didn't support skirt-chasers, but wishing doesn't make it so.

    -jcr

  • Del||

    "bubba where are you getting those stats? I highly doubt married women are supporting a skirt-chasing adulterer."

    They supported Bill Clinton.

    Checkmate.

  • Del||

    "Yes, I do think our wisest and most educated men should rule."

    But not the women?

  • Del||

    "Links to sources in original post."

    So why didn'tyou?

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "Biden has been on the Foreign Service Committee since the Truman Administration."

    And he still doesn't know a damn thing about the subject.

  • randi||

    "Let's say you win the vice-presidency and are in office. The president has just died. What are the first five things you would do?

    Me? Personally?

    1. Run in circles and scream like a little girl. "Aaaaaaa! Aaaaaaa!!!! AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!"

    2. Pause, curl up in ball, repeat "oh shit oh shit oh shit."

    3. Find political advisor who got me into this, beat the snot out of him.

    4. "AAaaaaaaaaaa!!! Aaaaaaaaaa! AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!"

    5. Stiff drink."

    You don't get laid, Joe. How sad.

  • Mr Simple||

    This must have been a good choice for McCain. Look at the desperate arguments being made by the Obamamaniacs all over the place. Everyone else thinks its a good idea and the supporters are even optimistic.

    I for one think it will depend on the next week and the debates. It really won't take much training for her to be able to match Biden in a debate, if his poor performances of the past are any indicator.

  • ||

    Ah, wedded bliss.

  • ktc2||

    Palin during her beauty pagent days:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

  • Elemenope||

    Personally, I think the "what would you do if the president bites it" question is the *only* question that's really relevant for a vice-president to answer.

    And perhaps, if the moderator is feeling saucy, they could throw out a softball about moderating the Senate or managing NASA.

  • Dwayne Mayor||

    Del,
    I have no problem with qualified women either. This inexperienced PTA mom doesn't fit the profile though. Sports reporting? This is a complete charade dreamed up by some harebrained idiot in the McCain camp and it will cost him the election. When they start publicizing her generous support of Pat Buchanan's 1996, McCain's stock in Jewish enclaves will plummet like a rock. I'll call the election today two months before the ballots are cast, Obama will win.

  • ||

    Actually, the more I think about this, the weirder it gets. She has a four-month-old with Down's syndrome. She's going to be campaigning around the country. I'm not going to go out on a limb and make predictions, but I feel like there's a good chance, once this gets out, that she will be forced to quit the race.

    "Links to sources in original post."

    So why didn'tyou?


    Combination of ignorance and laziness. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/183255/841/290/579394

  • ||

    http://www.voiceofthetimes.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1653&Itemid=9


    this is a story in an unabashadly conservative paper in Alaska about Gov. Palin.

  • ||

    JCR says:
    Step 1: order full release of the strategic petroleum reserve
    Step 2: ask the congress to resume coinage
    Step 3: nationalize the federal reserve, in preparation for dissolution
    Step 4: withdraw all US forces from foreign countries
    Step 5: suspend all foreign aid payments
    Step 6: command all federal employees to comply fully with the bill of rights or face immediate dismissal

    That should do for the first day.


    Pretty much sums it up as far as "LPer = Utopian Fantasist". Hey JCR, you left off Step 7: Discover new Wild West, with no population to speak of, zero population, sod huts and dirt tracks for all True Believers! Hoo-ray!

  • ||

    Let's say you win the vice-presidency and are in office. The president has just died. What are the first five things you would do?

    1. Fire the drug czar, and not replace him, thus ending the war on drugs. Pardon everyone imprisoned solely for possession with intent to sell.

    2. Abolish HUD and the Department of Labor.

    3. Sign an executive order permitting the construction of the Yucca Mountain nuclear repository to proceed.

    4. Rescind any and all other executive orders interfering with the construction of nuclear power plants, and order the regulatory agencies to streamline the permitting process

    5. Sign an executive order lifting most restrictions on biotech, including stem cell research and GMOs.

  • Ebeneezer Scrooge||

    B.A. in Journalism, focused on sports reporting. Sportscaster for a small TV station. Mayor of a town of 5,000. Governor of a state less than two years." - Lawnchair

    Yeah man, Abomana- I mean Obama sure does have a nice shiny resume.

    But with rare exceptions, the "experienced" politicians are people I'd sooner have seen shot by firing squad (by virtue of their records) than elected to anything.

    Obama (and McCain) are on my list of people who should not be elected.

    [I move that we add a new election cycle, offset 6 months from the "I'm running for office" elections we now have -- in this new cycle, We The People nominate and vote for that politician who most deserves to be shot by firing squad -- no reason not to have these at city, county, state, and national levels simultaneously]

    Palin made it to governor of a state. Making that slot in *any* state is a clear sign of ambition (prerequisite for pres and veep too), and also some measure of talent. So don't write her off just yet.

    But running for POTUS, and for her running as veep, is something like the modern day equivalent of jumping into the Roman Colluseum. Question is, can she fight and hold her own there?

    McCain must think she can. If he's right, I predict the Abomination Man (a name he earns for his clear and consistent socialist principles) is in big trouble.


    Nobody has mentioned the most important way that she counter balances McCain. McCain has no principles, beyond proving his own manhood over and over, forever and ever amen. You know, like Teddy Roosevelt, who picked fights just because he needed fights and so he needed enemies. Everybody knows that real men fight.

    But Palin actually has something like a set of traditional Republican principles. Like 'em or lump 'em, but at least she has that.

    If it turns out she can fight in the Arena, I'm going to award McCain's campaign "Brilliant Move of The Century" award.

    And if she can't? Well, nice try. But I think most other choices would have been a loss for him anyway.

    Current best case scenerio: Palin proves she's worth her salt. McCain wins the election and dies. Abomination goes back to doing nothing good in the Senate. Hillary Clinton self destructs.

    Meanwhile, a large herd of Alaskan moose comes to earn a higher public approval rating than Congress.

  • ||

    1. Sign an executive order forbidding all federal employees to cease and desist prosecuting federal marijuana laws

    2. Light up a HUGE fatty with a copy of said order

    3. Uuhhhhh.....damn, forgot the rest.

    *SNORT*

  • ||

    The Hillary votes than McCain will get are the rural rust belt vote in the three key states, PA, OH, and MI. You know, the bitter clingers who won't be turned off by a candidate who's not an abortocentrist. The BCs that like their guns and like hunting and fishing. Add in the hockey angle and Michigan is a lock.

  • ||

    Forgot to add the steel workers union angle.

  • BakedPenguin||

    James - the CATO podcast pointed out that she has some blue collar bonafides - came from a commercial fishing family, for one thing. That will definitely play well among the "tuk-r-jerbz" Rust Belters.

  • ||

    The Hillary votes than McCain will get are the rural rust belt vote in the three key states, PA, OH, and MI.

    Yeah, that's it. Even though those three states are 3 of the 10th most populous states in the nation and have a combined population the size of Cali, we're all just a bunch of hicks from the sticks who will be overwhelmingly wooed by a hunter and fisher.

    Nope, no large cities here, just Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Columbus...

    Yee-haw.

  • ||

    I'm a big fan of intellect, but I'm mainly an issues voter, and I wish more people could honestly say the same thing.>>

    If the American electorate were issue voters, Obama may have been on the short list to serve under Bill Richardson.

    Issues are for libertarians. Ever get a good look at some of our candidates? Not exactly the Cary Grant party.

  • ||

    Big city or not, Detroit loves their hockey.

  • ||

    If the American electorate were issue voters, Obama may have been on the short list to serve under Bill Richardson.

    Or Edwards, or Hillary. They were both very issues-oriented.

    Well, Hillary was issues-oriented. Then she shifted into "Mah daddy taught be how to shoot at his camp" girl, gave up the wonkery, and started winning.

  • BDB||

    I think the only state she helps in is Montana. Maybe, MAYBE Michigan in the rural parts since they too are frozen, cold, and go hunting.

  • Elemenope||

    If the American electorate were issue voters, Obama may have been on the short list to serve under Bill Richardson.

    I still have dreams where that was the case...

    :(

  • ||

    Kant...

    You laugh, but the drug war is probably one of the most socially destructive policies that the federal government has pursued in the last 30 years. And I don't even do drugs. The social and political corruption it's produced is immesurable. Gang wars, the incarceration rate, urban blight, crime. It's not the only factor, but they are all intertwined. Black markets aren't free markets, they are run by protection rackets that corrupt the cops and the politicians, and the entire community in which they operate.

  • Nick||

    "This is exactly why intellectual and academic qualifications must have precedence to questions of ideological agreement."

    Well, Dwayne, why don't you list what those qualifications are?

    Seems to me you think they must be a senator or someone elected to federal office, which is kind of strange. Of course this year, we'll get a senator, but what about the last 40 years where we haven't had a president straight out of the legislation? Legislators are usually bad presidents because they have been focused on making new laws more than on managing a government.

    Seems to me you think they must also have a law degree. Libertarians should realize that a country run by lawyers is a country doomed to bureaucracy, overregulation and excessive litigation - they develop the system from their perspective and in the interests of their friends in the trial lawyer lobby. That is reason alone why we should fear Obama-Biden.

    I also note in none of your arguments do you state executive experience is important. None of the candidates but Palin have any executive experience over a government.

    I'd say McCain's decision was one of the most brilliant political maneuvers I've ever seen - effectively neutering the impacts of Obama's historic "I'll promise you every government program you can dream of and still cut everyone's taxes" speech and setting up the Democratic Party to come off as misogynistic and demonstrate the double standards the Left has for women and minorities who are not on the Left.

    It also shores up the political base of the GOP. I think he just effectively changed the archetypal GOPer image away from Mitt Romney types towards a limited and clean government and reform-minded party. Looking at the areas where their values overlap strongest is the rabid opposition to pork, subsidies, taxes, spending and corruption. This is very promising. This is the strongest area of McCain's political ideology, and I think his selection of Palin realigns the GOP more where it was before Bush's extra big government conservatism took hold.

    It also reaffirms McCain's maverick image just when everyone was beginning to doubt it. It was a political masterstroke, in my humble opinion, and it was a gamble that has probably a 70% chance of succeeding. Looking at the alternatives listed as potential running mates, none of them had any serious limited government credentials like Sarah Palin, nor did they have the potential. Now, that doesn't mean I'll vote for McCain at all, but kudos for a brilliant political maneuver nonetheless.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Yes, I have been fantasizing about Sarah Palin being on the GOP ticket for the past year. Actually, ever since the very night she won election to Governor. I was right there at the Egan Center celebration in downtown Anchorage. I watched her with my own eyes publicly hug Jason Dowell, Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Election, and expressly thank the LP for their support for her Campaign.

    Matt Welch is right, she may not be 100% pure libertarian, but she's the best the libertarian movement could ever hope for on a major party Presidential ticket.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Hmmn? Support from Dondero is the "kiss of death"?

    Really?

    And who was it I recruited to run for President as a Libertarian two years ago? Vice-Presidential candidate Wayne Allyn Root.

    And who was it that I was enthusiastically supporting for the LP Presidential nomination? Bob Barr.

    Both won. Not quite as I would have anticipated. But still a one-two victory.

  • Eric Dondero||

    Support from Dondero is the "kiss of death"? Really?

    7 Libertarian State Ballot drives worked on in the past 4 months, and five of the them as the Top Petition gatherer. 6 out of 7 successes.

    Illinois, Ohio, Kentucky, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Maine. Only loss Maine.

  • ||

    I think McCain's choice was actually brilliant. Cynical, but brilliant.

    This way, any Republicans or independents that were attracted by Obama's "We're making history here" meme, can participate in history of their own.

    Palin has no political coat-tails, mentors, connections. While that might be bad, Hillary had all of those, and look where it got her.

    Anyone who attacks her lack of experience has to swallow Obama's lack of same.

    If Biden's supposed to be Obama's fount of experience, two words: Dick Cheney.

    Al Gore had grown up in DC, around power, won elected office, etc.. Fat lot of good it did him as VP. He could have had a day job.

    Her non-name brand education, beauty pageant stuff, mom of 5 is as non-elitist as it can be, and takes the curse of McCain's zillions of wifely $$.

  • Mad Max||

    "Let's say you win the vice-presidency and are in office. The president has just died. What are the first five things you would do?"

    1) Pardon those imprisoned under unconstitutional laws

    2) Fire federal executive branch employees who have abused their power and/or who hold their jobs under unconstitutional enabling legislation.

    3) Defend self against impeachment from big-govt types in Congress; defeat the impeachment by sending messengers to each Senator saying, "if you convict me I will tell the media about you-know-what." I won't actually know what they've done, but each Senator will assume I've discovered whatever misconduct they're guilty of, so they'll vote Not Guilty.

    4) With the newly-chastized Congress, obtain repeal of unconstitutional legislation and strip federal courts of jurisdiction in areas where they've usurped power.

    5) Check the Area 51 file.

  • Mad Max||

    I don't support McCain, even with Palin as his Judas goat, but I am amused with the criticism that Palin got some town into debt. Yes, the U.S. Senators she's running against will really have the credibility to attack her on *that* ground!

  • ||

    Big city or not, Detroit loves their hockey.

    What, you think Levi Johnson will carry Michigan for McCain?

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