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McCain Picks Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin
It's
Palin, folks. Looks like McCain does want those disgruntled Hillary
voters. And Palin's strong anti-abortion views won't hurt with the
social cons either.
|8.29.08 @ 11:20AM|#
So a one-term US Senator from Illinois isn't qualified to be president, but a one-term Governor of Alaska is ready to take over when McCain inevitably croaks?
phalkor|8.29.08 @ 11:20AM|#
Really? that's effin sweet, this show keeps getting better and better! This season is so good, I wonder if they'll ever top it.
Ska|8.29.08 @ 11:21AM|#
Considering Alaska's lax marijuana laws (I think, I might be wrong), and McCain's wife's inclination to pill popping, can Palin help convince that old bastard to chill out on this front? That would go along way to pacify me as I wallow in the crapulance of a McCain administration (if it came to be).
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 11:21AM|#
As I said in the other thread, I think she brings as many
negatives as positives, but it will sure make it an interesting two
months. On the plus side for the Republicans, she could bring in
some Hillary hold outs. I imagine she's a good campaigner. The kid
with Down's Syndrome is a good story. It will be hard for Biden to
attach her in the debates.
On the downside, she's still really pro-life, so while it riles up
the base, it won't bring a lot of cross-over voters. She's arguably
less experienced than Obama, so it blunts that line of attack from
McCain. How can you argue the importance of experience when you
think a first term governor of a sparsely populated state (which I
love, by the way - my brother lives there) is experienced enough to
beat one heartbeat away from the Presidency? She has her own abuse
of power issue going on, though that may be overblown.
I saw Pawlenty as a pretty safe choice, but that's mostly because I
figured he'd bring Minnesota along, and I don't know enough about
him to have a strong negative opinion. Credit to McCain for not
making the safe choice, but I'm not sure it's the right choice. I
guess it comes down to how many Hillary voters they think they can
really grab. I assume they focus grouped it, but I'm not sure how
much you can focus group someone that not too many people have ever
heard of.
Maybe they think the experience and celebrity arguments have run
their course and wouldn't have helped much over the rest of the
campaign. They also may be able to get Biden to say something
something dismissive or sexist in a debate. Seems like a big
gamble, though. And count me as one who thinks the age gap doesn't
really help. It just makes McCain look older. Then again, he now
has at least one, attractive woman on his campaign team who doesn't
steal drugs from charities (as far as we know).
|8.29.08 @ 11:22AM|#
A fellow University of Idaho alumni. Go Vandals!!!!!
Wow! Finally, this election got interesting.
Citizen Nothing|8.29.08 @ 11:22AM|#
I called it in the bar last night. My pals now think I'm a god of politicial science. I'll never admit I get my tips from a guy in a leather jacket.
Ironchef|8.29.08 @ 11:22AM|#
She looks like Karen Walker from Will and Grace.
(squeaky voice)
"Honey, I don't read. I'm read to. Now where's my martini?"
|8.29.08 @ 11:22AM|#
You know, in theory, I'd love to vote for a presidential ticket consisting of a crazy, ex-POW/Navy captain who took over Barry Goldwater's seat in the Senate, and a kinda-hot maverick female Governor from Alaska. In reality, John McCain is a complete tool.
|8.29.08 @ 11:23AM|#
So a one-term US Senator from Illinois isn't qualified to be
president, but a one-term Governor of Alaska is ready to take over
when McCain inevitably croaks?
Wow, so there really will be a woman president finally.
Roger Maltz|8.29.08 @ 11:24AM|#
Big mistake. While I do not care for Mitt Romney, he may have been the better person for the VP pick.
robc|8.29.08 @ 11:25AM|#
Brownie,
Check out my quick study in one of the threads below. It turns out
Palin has just the right amount of experience to be a kick ass
"take over when the other guy dies" President.
|8.29.08 @ 11:26AM|#
They also may be able to get Biden to say something
something dismissive or sexist in a debate.
Or Obama. You never know. Condescension to a woman comes
surprisingly readily to most people.
|8.29.08 @ 11:26AM|#
Ska,
are they lax on weed up there in alaska? that would be a nice
contrast to drug-warrior Biden. not that the GOP would allow any of
that whatsoever. i think this is the best choice mccain could have
made. She does make Obama look experienced, foreign-policy wise and
nat'l govt-wise, but only Andrew Sullivan could make that argument
unabashedly.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 11:28AM|#
Or Obama. You never know. Condescension to a woman comes
surprisingly readily to most people.
Well, OK, but I don't think she and Obama will be debating. What I
was getting at wasn't so much a sexist policy position, but a more
dismissive comment akin to "likable enough". A sort of "don't worry
your pretty little head about that Georgia place" or something.
That's much more likely to come in a face to face debate than on
the stump or in an interview.
|8.29.08 @ 11:28AM|#
In her favor, she's not the one who'll be president, she's the
one who will go the the funeral of heads of state.
Unlike Obama, who really won't know the first thing he's doing on
his first day, besides getting a better class of "piece on the
side".
And as a bonus, her husband is native american and races
snowmobiles!
Jorgen|8.29.08 @ 11:29AM|#
I don't think this will help with the Clintonites, because they wanted Hillary, not a woman president or vice president. I remember hearing about how a bunch of her top supporters were going nuts with rage at the idea that he might pick Sebilus, because she was too nice and unhillarylike.
The Wine Commonsewer|8.29.08 @ 11:29AM|#
Love the crustacean on the coffee table. Wonder if it used to belong to Lobster Girl.
guy in the back row|8.29.08 @ 11:30AM|#
Wow, she really locks up the Hasidic and PETA votes with that picture!
|8.29.08 @ 11:31AM|#
A strongly pro-life VP candidate with five kids (one of which has Down's Syndrome) that beat the incumbent Republican governor in the primary and a former Democratic governor in the general election? Oh, plus she hunts and fishes and is a lifetime member of the NRA? AND she's attractive? I'm not going to say that she'll get McCain elected, but I think it'll make the race a lot more interesting.
Fluffy|8.29.08 @ 11:31AM|#
As I said below, I don't like this pick because I think it works
for McCain.
He needs to peel off a handful of disgruntled Hillary supporters to
have any chance. And I think this pick does a lot to torpedo any
chance of Barr breaking 1% or 2% on election day.
A percent here and a percent there and McCain has a shot. I don't
like it, but it's true.
|8.29.08 @ 11:32AM|#
smacky,
Condescension to a woman comes surprisingly readily to most
people.
Sweetie, just leave the commentating to the menfolk. I'm sure
there's a sale on shoes out there somewhere. Bring the boys some
iced tea before you go.
|8.29.08 @ 11:32AM|#
And Palin's strong anti-abortion views won't hurt with the
social cons either.
But it will hurt with the Hillary voters. Badly, if the Obama
campaign deploys the attacks right. If McCain thought he could have
it both ways by naming Palin (pick up Hillary voters while quieting
the base) then he's even more senile than his recent public
appearances would lead one to believe.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 11:33AM|#
In her favor, she's not the one who'll be president, she's
the one who will go the the funeral of heads of state.
Like McCain's in a year or two!
Johnny Nowhere|8.29.08 @ 11:33AM|#
hmmm, Palin...
don't know much about her.
what are her measurments? B-cup, C-cup or (dare I dream?) D?
Dagny T.|8.29.08 @ 11:34AM|#
Whoa. She's got crabs.
lunchstealer,
See, I thought that would be a point in her favor. Or am I thinking
of lobsters?
|8.29.08 @ 11:35AM|#
My head, oddly enough, is filled with images of railroad cars
sliding along the ground; soon the propane tankers will begin
shooting flames hundreds of feet into the air.
Three hundred million people in this, our great land, and we
somehow have contrived to end up with these four people. And I
suspect Ms Palin is, by far, the one actually capable of doing the
best job.
I think I'll go for a ride on my motorcycle, and pretend it's
1962.
|8.29.08 @ 11:35AM|#
SugarFree,
I knew I could rely on you. You're like the changing of the guard.
Um, reliable, that is.
Lobster girl, meet
Salmon Lady!
|8.29.08 @ 11:36AM|#
AND she's attractive?
Fucking Christ. If any of you read a newspaper with the headline
"Area man still at large after savage beating of McCain
supporter--ran from scene ranting about 'rampant misogynism;'"
spare a fond thought for your old pal Shem?
ed|8.29.08 @ 11:36AM|#
Finally, a good-looking female VP candidate.
And she's no less accomplished than Geraldine Ferraro.
Added bonus: extinguished the Dem Convention afterglow!
Nice strategic move.
|8.29.08 @ 11:38AM|#
But what was wrong with Condoleeza? She would have picked up the
"I will vote for any woman" AND split the "I will vote for any
black" voters?
CB
|8.29.08 @ 11:38AM|#
Added bonus: extinguished the Dem Convention
afterglow!
Did it? All they're talking about on CNN is the fact that she tried
to get her brother-in-law fired after he and her sister
divorced.
|8.29.08 @ 11:38AM|#
You're all misogynistic scum, talking about her appearance. I would never do that.
|8.29.08 @ 11:39AM|#
Added bonus: extinguished the Dem Convention
afterglow!
Nice strategic move.
I have to agree. That's an astute observation. I can see the faces
of a million Team Blue fans falling as I type this. Hee.
|8.29.08 @ 11:41AM|#
I honestly don't know much about this woman. But the bear rug kicks ass. Looking at her she is definitely there to appeal to women. She is good looking but not in a threatening way. She is basically the together good looking career mom a lot of women want to be, rather than a threatening figure.
|8.29.08 @ 11:42AM|#
A dope-smokin, homo lovin, beauty queen with a history of firing
folks that don't agree with her. Married across racial lines to
enjoy more animal killin privilages. recently birthed a 5th child
that will take all her time as it is mongoloid.
Experience includes being mayor of a town of 8471 people and now in
first term as Gov. of Oilaska.
U of I grad!!! What's not to like?
God help us all.
robc|8.29.08 @ 11:43AM|#
Shem,
Are they mentioning him threatening to kill her father? I think
that qualifies any cop to be fired, but my standards for cops
appear to be higher than the real standard.
|8.29.08 @ 11:43AM|#
smacky,
Why you no come around much anymore? Is it because of Epi? I know
he kills it for a lot of women.
|8.29.08 @ 11:43AM|#
robc, that would be a fine ticket. Plus, a vote for zombie-Goldwater would really inspire a lot of undead people. You know, zombies are the last group against which discrimination is still tolerated in America.
Rhywun|8.29.08 @ 11:45AM|#
So a one-term US Senator from Illinois isn't qualified to be president, but a one-term Governor of Alaska is ready to take over when McCain inevitably croaks?
If you're looking for an executive type, yes, a governor trumps a
senator. Seems quite obvious.
|8.29.08 @ 11:45AM|#
How come it's misogynistic to comment on her looks, but it isn't
misandry when the discussion is about Bill Clinton or John
Edwards.
Just sayin'...
|8.29.08 @ 11:45AM|#
Michael,
I don't know about that. In Kentucky werewolf lease laws are a big
controversy.
|8.29.08 @ 11:46AM|#
But what was wrong with Condoleeza? She would have picked up
the "I will vote for any woman" AND split the "I will vote for any
black" voters?
maybe, but she's been sold as being supersmart and evil. Good for
an archenemy, not for a friendly leader. Condi's branding sucks,
McCain needed to pick someone with exec experince as far away from
Washington DC as possible.
Plus this way McCain appears to stick his finger in Rove's eye,
completely seperating himself from the current administration.
|8.29.08 @ 11:48AM|#
How come it's misogynistic to comment on her looks, but it
isn't misandry when the discussion is about Bill Clinton or John
Edwards.
Because "misogyny" is the most improperly used word in the English
language.
sexism =/= misogyny
Get your terms of abuse right, cretins.
|8.29.08 @ 11:48AM|#
I think her only down side is that she is, apparently, staunchly
anti-abortion. Having 5 kids, one with downs, is going to convince
many that she can handle chaos. And it isn't like her governorship
was her first campaign.
I can't wait to see the pictures of her with guns or gutting a
fish.
I have never been impressed with the "experience" thing which I
have always thought of as the ability to suck the right cock to get
the pork home.
|8.29.08 @ 11:50AM|#
Both her and McCain have kids who have served or will serve in Iraq. That won't stop the Dems from calling them chicken hawks. As far as the abortion thing goes, the Dems will have to tread lightly. The woman has a pretty handicapped kid. That and the fact that she is a woman gives her more cover for being pro life than a man has. I don't think Joe Biden lecturing her in a debate about a woman's right to chose will get them very far.
|8.29.08 @ 11:51AM|#
But seriously.
Obama's pick of Biden looks like move to get someone to balance his
perceived lack of experience.
McCain's pick looks like more of a viva Viagra decision. A person
whose most redeemable quality is her looks.
|8.29.08 @ 11:53AM|#
One other thing on abortion. I would be curious what other peoples' experience is, but my experience is that women who are pro choice but not nutso feminists are much more tolerant of other women being pro life than they are of men being pro life.
|8.29.08 @ 11:54AM|#
What's not to like?
Well, her staunch anti-choice position on abortion. Perhaps she
could come around on that point; I'm not sure since I don't know
that much about how "staunch" could be defined in her case.
Other than that, she does seem pretty badass, at first blush.
|8.29.08 @ 11:54AM|#
Are they mentioning him threatening to kill her
father?
Don't seem to be. Which, given their coverage of the Obama smears,
probably only proves that CNN is really shitty at journalism.
ed|8.29.08 @ 11:55AM|#
Governor of the largest state in the nation!
Granted, most of her constituents are wildlife...
But tasty wildlife! Win-win!
|8.29.08 @ 11:56AM|#
Just for the record, the Urkobold revealed that McCain would be
selecting Palin in mid-May. So there!
The pro-life position may not hurt her as much as people think. The
fact that she put her money where her mouth is shows that she has
personal principles, something lacking in most politicians, it
seems. What a horrible thing to contend with, too, knowing that
your child won't be normal.
|8.29.08 @ 11:57AM|#
Marcvs,
No, you're correct. Just like it was sexist to talk about sexy
female Olympic athletes, but shirtless Micheal Phelps was
A-OK.
Women like to think that men discount women based on their looks.
They do. But that's not going to stop until we are all turned gay
or are castrated.
The desire to have men stop judging women on their looks is a
sublimated wish to castrate straight men.
|8.29.08 @ 11:58AM|#
A dope-smokin, homo lovin, beauty queen with a history of
firing folks that don't agree with her. Married across racial lines
to enjoy more animal killin privilages. recently birthed a 5th
child that will take all her time as it is mongoloid.
Experience includes being mayor of a town of 8471 people and now in
first term as Gov. of Oilaska.
U of I grad!!! What's not to like?
Those are bad things? What's fucking wrong with U of I?
|8.29.08 @ 11:58AM|#
Having 5 kids, one with downs, is going to convince many
that she can handle chaos.
It also stands to convince some people that she should be taking
care of her disabled child. Which is tremendously unfair to her.
But it won't stop it from being said.
Smacky-Her stance on abortion isn't changing. She's sent out
letters saying "[I've] adamantly supported our cause since I first
understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion." Just about as
anti-choice as you can get.
Ska|8.29.08 @ 11:58AM|#
SV - from NORML's website, possession of less than an ounce or 25 plants is not a crime.
robc|8.29.08 @ 11:59AM|#
I can't wait to see the pictures of her with guns or gutting
a fish.
Doesnt the fish gutting competition determine 20% of the points or
am I thinking of some other reality show?
NP|8.29.08 @ 11:59AM|#
You guys are hopeless. Who cares about some MILF VP VIP while the US Open is going on, with Federer up next in an hour or two? Get your priorities straight, people.
robc|8.29.08 @ 12:00PM|#
It also stands to convince some people that she should be
taking care of her disabled child.
The VP position will give her plenty of time for that.
|8.29.08 @ 12:00PM|#
Who cares about some MILF VP VIP while the US Open is going
on, with Federer up next in an hour or two?
Fag. Nadal will win, anyway.
Citizen Nothing|8.29.08 @ 12:01PM|#
Sarah Palin = Laura Roslin. But will she be willing to flush folks out the airlock?
|8.29.08 @ 12:01PM|#
Why do people assume that being pro-life will hurt her with women? The last ten polls I read show that women are actually more likely to be pro-life than men (but, just barely) and the issue is pretty much split 50/50 in this country.
|8.29.08 @ 12:01PM|#
Again, NP cuts to the chase. This campaign is the least
interesting thing happening in the U.S. today. I couldn't agree
more.
Our general apathy about these idiots in Washington is what makes
us great.
|8.29.08 @ 12:01PM|#
The desire to have men stop judging women on their looks is
a sublimated wish to castrate straight men.
Or it could be a desire to actually see some men behave with some
common fucking courtesy, and not just say every stupid comment that
pops into their head.
|8.29.08 @ 12:02PM|#
troy,
actually I was talkin with my tongue firmly in my cheek.
re: U of I, I was just hackin on ya. Nothin wrong with the
schooling there. I'm just a tool sometimes.
DADIODADDY|8.29.08 @ 12:02PM|#
way better legs than Hillary, oh and Brownie...at least she has some executive experience, unlike the democrat senatorial duo.
TallDave|8.29.08 @ 12:04PM|#
Aside from scooping up Hillary-backers and evangelicals, the best part about this pick is when people criticize her inexperience they're also attacking the top of the Dem ticket.
Taktix®|8.29.08 @ 12:04PM|#
Palin said she has smoked marijuana -- remember, it was legal
under state law, she said, even if illegal under U.S. law -- but
says she didn't like it and doesn't smoke it now.
Not perfect, but somewhat interesting...
|8.29.08 @ 12:05PM|#
Just for the record, the Urkobold revealed that McCain would
be selecting Palin in mid-May. So there!
Wow, holy shit. Awesome! Urkobold really is brilliant. I had
underestimated Him. (better not let Him catch wind of that).
[trembling]
|8.29.08 @ 12:07PM|#
Why do people assume that being pro-life will hurt her with
women?
I would say that it's not that it will hurt her with women, it's
that it will hurt her with the sort of women that McCain was hoping
to be able to pick up; disgruntled Clinton voters who want a woman
to be President, and who are much, much more likely to view
reproductive rights as one of the more important issues in the
election. People who think that Palin will be able to peel off
those voters don't really understand just who those voters are and
what motivates them.
|8.29.08 @ 12:09PM|#
Shem,
Nope. Men can no more keep themselves from judging women on their
looks than you could just magically will yourself into not having
any more periods. It's a bodily function.
Team America|8.29.08 @ 12:10PM|#
@Everybody
Relax until the sex-tape is released. Only then will we know if she
spits, swallows or gargles.
@robc
What's the VP position? I hope it has nothing to do with Germans
urinating.
|8.29.08 @ 12:11PM|#
smacky,
I know, it's amazing. Remember, back in May, she was probably at
the bottom of the possible list of VP candidates.
For the record, this was really posted in May. I feel I need to say
that, since the Urkobold has been known to play with the time of
certain postings.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 12:11PM|#
Both her and McCain have kids who have served or will serve
in Iraq. That won't stop the Dems from calling them chicken
hawks.
Right, John, because they'e been doing nothing but calling McCain a
Chickenhawk non-stop. Typical bullshit post from John.
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:12PM|#
Epi, actually I think Djokovic has a pretty good chance.
Remember, he beat Nadal twice already, in Indian Wells and just
recently in Cincy.
Pro Libertate, I was only half serious, but thanks.
|8.29.08 @ 12:14PM|#
Seitz,
What was that last night about McCain not being man enough to go
after Bin Ladin's cave. They will call Pailin a chickenhawk right
after they say something nasty about her handicapped kid. What do
want to bet the handicapped kid jokes are flying on Kos right
now.
TallDave|8.29.08 @ 12:15PM|#
Does anyone know her position on the WoD? Obviously she was
governor (governess?) of a state where marijuana is mostly legal,
but beyond that...?
Men can no more keep themselves from judging women on their
looks
Next you'll tell women can't help judging men based on their
status.
|8.29.08 @ 12:16PM|#
Or it could be a desire to actually see some men behave with
some common fucking courtesy, and not just say every stupid comment
that pops into their head.
A little sand in your vagina today, Shem?
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:17PM|#
I mean Djoko beat Nadal on hard courts twice already this year. As usual I blame the keyboard.
|8.29.08 @ 12:17PM|#
Epi, actually I think Djokovic has a pretty good chance.
Remember, he beat Nadal twice already, in Indian Wells and just
recently in Cincy.
Nadal is peaking, dude. And he doesn't make errors. To be honest,
the guy creeps me out a little. I am Mr. Unforced Error and he is
Mr. I Never Error.
P1t|8.29.08 @ 12:17PM|#
I can't believe my joke about Palin being the female VP choice for McCain came true. I thought that if he were to choose a woman for VP, it ought to be Palin (Because she is nice-looking as opposed to the other woman, especially for the male voters). Honestly, I can't say whether it is a good choice. An interesting one, that it is. But the right one? Not to mention, we either get a president who happens to have a father from Kenya (Which I guess makes him black) or a vice-president who happens to be a woman (An interesting one, nonetheless. I mean, she sounds like a tough woman). I am willing to put my money on McCain (Not that I would vote for him. Just that I think he has better chances to win), but who knows?
|8.29.08 @ 12:18PM|#
Men can no more keep themselves from judging women on their
looks than you could just magically will yourself into not having
any more periods. It's a bodily function.
True, but they can stop themselves from talking about it
*every single time* a woman is running for a position in
government. It's a simple matter of exercising the self-control to
actually think about what you're saying and whether it's
appropriate before you say it.
|8.29.08 @ 12:18PM|#
Federer is like going to the nicest restaurant in the world and
ordering an unsalted cracker and room temperature tap water. It may
be the best cracker and tap water possible, but it's still just a
cracker and tap water.
Djokovic has a chance, but he's streaky.
The women's draw is completely up in the air. Not one solid player
in the bunch. On their best days the top 7 can beat anyone; one
their worst, anyone can beat them. It should be a wild ride.
|8.29.08 @ 12:19PM|#
"""Aside from scooping up Hillary-backers and evangelicals, the
best part about this pick is when people criticize her inexperience
they're also attacking the top of the Dem ticket."""
Why do you kid yourself that people are not two-faced when it comes
to their candidates. Their candidate can be inexperienced but the
other can't. That's par for politics.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 12:20PM|#
What do want to bet the handicapped kid jokes are flying on
Kos right now.
Well, if they're flying, then surely you can go over there and find
a couple to post here. Have at it, dipshit.
What was that last night about McCain not being man enough to
go after Bin Ladin's cave.
John, do you know what a Chickenhawk is? It's someone who supports
war, but never wanted to fight in one (like the two guys in the
executive right now, for example). How is saying that he wouldn't
go after bin Laden because he wanted to attack Iraq instead calling
him a Chickenhawk. I used to think you were at least intelligent,
but misguided. Now I think you're just a dumbass.
Tom Walls|8.29.08 @ 12:21PM|#
What a brilliant choice, and what a strong contrast to old-guard
career politician Biden.
I met McCain in Orlando last October, and I said he should choose a
libertarian-leaning conservative like Mark Sanford or Sarah Palin.
He repeated his same old line about appealing to libertarians and
vegetarians. Who knows if anything sunk in.
|8.29.08 @ 12:22PM|#
The women's draw is completely up in the air.
Who cares who wins? It's all about watching them. Play, that is.
Yeah.
Taktix®|8.29.08 @ 12:25PM|#
All men-women battles aside, is any woman here going to say that
her appearance had NO PART in her being the choice for VP?
In a ideal world, it wouldn't be a factor. Problem is, we don't
live in said world...
|8.29.08 @ 12:25PM|#
Seitz,
I have a lot of friends in the special ops community who missed the
memo that we didn't go after Bin Ladin. Further, if Bin Ladin is
still alive, he is in Pakistan. Does Obama plan to declare war on
Pakistan to go get him? Does he plan to bomb an allied country
without the support or authorization of the UN?
Obama has never shown one once of physical courage in his entire
life. That statement was probably the low point of political
discourse in my lifetime. To see someone like Obama, who has never
served anything in his life beyond himself, calling out the
physical courage of someone who won the medal of honor makes me
want to vomit. If he thinks that McCain wouldn't go strong enough
after Bin Ladin, then say it. But don't make some smart ass remark
about who would really go into what cave. I am not the only veteren
who was offended by that remark.
|8.29.08 @ 12:27PM|#
Well this woman is sick to death of the "creationism should be
taught in science classes" thing..and Palin has said exactly
that.
One step forward, two steps back.
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:27PM|#
Oh, I know that, Epi. But did you see that SF in Beijing between
the two? Djoko was clearly the better player in the 2nd set and
most of the 3rd set except for the last 3 or 4 games. I'm sure he's
quite ready to get his revenge.
SugarFree, not sure if you're talking about pre-2008 Federer, but
see what you're saying. And I still say Djoko on his best day beats
Nadal on his best day on HC. And yeah, the WTA is pretty chaotic
right now. My pick is either Safina or Serena, but Dementieva could
make another run.
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:30PM|#
Epi, you do know Pova and Ana is out, right? Hmm... what's that F-word you used?
Franklin Harris|8.29.08 @ 12:32PM|#
Like a said two days ago:
Dream scenario: McCain picks Sarah Palin as his VP nominee. They win. McCain has a debilitating stroke. Palin becomes the first woman president. The heads of Hillary, Bill, and all the PUMAs explode simultaneously.
Step 1, check.
|8.29.08 @ 12:32PM|#
It's a simple matter of exercising the self-control to
actually think about what you're saying and whether it's
appropriate before you say it.
Are you sure you're in the right office? The Enlightened Male™
Project is down the hall.
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:33PM|#
It just came to my mind that McCain has two MILFs (or GILFs, if you wanna be pedantic) on his side. Who cares the guy is a seventysomething? He's going great by any dude's standards.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 12:34PM|#
I have a lot of friends in the special ops community who
missed the memo that we didn't go after Bin Ladin.
Why do you keep changing the subject, John? Do you know what a
Chickenhawk is or not? I don't think you do.
I'm also waiting for all of those Down's Syndrome jokes you assured
me were out there. And I don't mean comments that you leave over
there yourself. I want to see a thread rollicking with Down's
Syndrome jokes.
As for bin Laden, go ahead and ask "not really a priority" Bush
about him. And since you're an idiot, I'll explain the gates of
hell thing to you. Obama, for better or worse, said that if we had
actual actionable intelligence that bin Laden was in Afghanistan,
he wouldn't hesitate to go after him. He was criticized roundly for
talking about invading a sovereign nation, because apparently we
don't do that or something (though a whole lot of dead Iraqis would
be surprised to hear that).
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:34PM|#
Pova and Ana ARE out. This time I blame Palin.
affenkopf, you're insane. NTTAWWT.
|8.29.08 @ 12:35PM|#
Epi, you do know Pova and Ana is out, right? Hmm... what's
that F-word you used?
No, I didn't. Fangul?
|8.29.08 @ 12:37PM|#
Seitz,
Every male moron in the country is thinkin' "i bet she'd bear my
retahd for me."
by Stuarte on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 08:43:03 AM PDT
It wasn't very hard. You're not one of those people who think
liberals shit rainbows, are you? Of course they are going to go
after the kid. If not blatantly, then obliquely:
how long it will take before we're treated to the ultimate play
of political cynicism: "You can't attack her, her child has Down's
syndrome."
by acb15 on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04:21 AM PDT
And they are making fun of her looks.
What it says to everyone, men and women alike, is that Senator
McCain is willing to sacrifice everything to win. That he is
willing to choose a running mate worse than Dan Quayle and with far
less relevant experience than Barack Obama. That he is willing to
choose someone who is NOT qualified to be a heartbeat away from the
presidency.
A Barbie Doll, if you will.
by AnnaMolly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:04:01 AM PDT
|8.29.08 @ 12:37PM|#
Are you sure you're in the right office? The Enlightened
Male™ Project is down the hall.
I had no idea self-control and politeness were so immasculating.
You must be an absolute joy for your mother and sisters to be
around.
|8.29.08 @ 12:38PM|#
Do you know what a Chickenhawk is or not?
An older gay man who goes after twinks?
*Sigh* I guess 9/11 really did change everything.
Urkobold™|8.29.08 @ 12:38PM|#
THE URKOBOLD NOTES FOR THE RECORD THAT GOV. PALIN HAS A HOT, NEARLY LEGAL DAUGHTER. BEHOLD THE RACK--THE URKOBOLD MEANS YOUNG WOMAN--ON THE RIGHT.
|8.29.08 @ 12:39PM|#
I am listening to her on the radio and she has that typical grating voice of the Northwest Yankee. As a transplant from Seattle to Texas, it is the most unattractive feature on most of the women here. Shallow I may be, but I was happy not to be haveing to watch Hillary and I am now sorry I will have to hear Palin's soundbites. Cruel world...
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:40PM|#
Epi, I was thinking fahionista. You see, there's no way I would've even thought anything demeaning towards women.
|8.29.08 @ 12:40PM|#
So a one-term US Senator from Illinois isn't qualified to be
president, but a one-term Governor of Alaska is ready to take over
when McCain inevitably croaks?
Yes....executive experience.
|8.29.08 @ 12:40PM|#
affenkopf, you're insane. NTTAWWT.
Concur. Everyone knows that golf and NASCAR compete for the #1 and
#2 spots of "more boring than Mark Warner".
Although baseball should be put up there. Tennis may not be your
bag, but if you know what's going on, no stretch of the imagination
can make it *boring*
|8.29.08 @ 12:42PM|#
All men-women battles aside, is any woman here going to say
that her appearance had NO PART in her being the choice for
VP?
Taktix,
The GOP being what it is, I'm sure that her looks played a part in
her selection. If she had been selected only for her looks
and not her credentials and character, that would be discouraging
indeed. However, that doesn't appear to be the case. Her looks
appear to be only icing on the cake, as far as I'm concerned.
Of course I'm willing to entertain the possibility that if she had
looked "haggard" or unattractive or overweight that a large
contingent of men wouldn't be so sanguine about her. That's a
possibility, and if I want to be cynical I might even say a
probability. But there's really no benefit from speculating about
that, and I think if anything it would just be unnecessarily
downbeat. If she were the same person but unattractive and everyone
was down on her for that, sure I'd be dismayed. But I'm sure that
Romney and Edwards and Obama are successful in part because of
their looks, too. There have been studies showing that attractive
people of either gender generally do better in life than
unattractive people, generally because people are willing to give
attractive people the benefit of the doubt, apparently for some
primitive, lizard-brain instinctual reason.
|8.29.08 @ 12:42PM|#
I had no idea self-control and politeness were so
immasculating. You must be an absolute joy for your mother and
sisters to be around.
They're emasculating, too! That's why I tuck my
dick between my legs a la Buffalo Bill before I
use self-control. I also then murder my sense of humor and tie a
cinderblock to my sense of fun before I throw it in the lake. You
must be a blast at the co-ed naked volleyball matches, dude.
Fluffy|8.29.08 @ 12:43PM|#
OK, I am less worried about this pick than before. This is a really blah uninspiring debut. Her timing if off and this crowd doesn't know what to make of her - the applause seems forced and rote and perfunctory.
Transponder|8.29.08 @ 12:45PM|#
In that Urkobold photo, check out the little girl. Is it just me, or does she look like she is about to turn into an It's Alive kid and eat the photographer?
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:45PM|#
The Angry Optimist,
Actually golf hasn't been a snoozefest since Tiger showed up. My
pick for the most boring sport? Marbles.
svf|8.29.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Hooray! The Dems no longer have a monopoly on identity
politics!
CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!
RIP GOP.
|8.29.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Nicknamed "Sarah Barracuda" from her high-school basketball days
and on into politics.
Good enough for me!
|8.29.08 @ 12:47PM|#
I, for one, welcome Shem's shrill and unpleasant demeanor. At least it's a new shrill and unpleasant demeanor.
Rhywun|8.29.08 @ 12:47PM|#
People have been swooning over Obama's looks for months. I see nothing wrong with commenting on Palin's looks. Hell, that's half the qualification for the job, anyway.
|8.29.08 @ 12:49PM|#
I also then murder my sense of humor and tie a cinderblock
to my sense of fun
Oh I see the problem. You think you are funny.
|8.29.08 @ 12:49PM|#
RIP GOP.
oh riiight...'cause the GOP was doing so well before picking a
woman for the sake of identity politics.
The GOP's been engaged in identity politics for decades. Christian
identity* (not that one) politics for sure; national identity,
etc.
Granted, I find "race/age/sexual orientation" identity politics
more noxious, hence why I hate Rs but really hate Ds, but
nonetheless, the GOP has never dropped identity politics.
|8.29.08 @ 12:49PM|#
""""Obama has never shown one once of physical courage in his
entire life. """
I didn't know you were such an expert on the life of Obama. I don't
know his history well enough to evaluate the truthfulness of that
claim. For some reason, I doubt you do too.
"""I have a lot of friends in the special ops community who missed
the memo that we didn't go after Bin Ladin. Further, if Bin Ladin
is still alive, he is in Pakistan."""
You don't need a memo to NOT go after someone. Did they get the
memo to get OBL? That's the memo I want to know about.
The older I get, the more I agree with George Carlin, it's an
illusion of choice. Ruffly the same shit's going to happen
regardless of who gets in office. A D or R by their name won't
change much. I voted for Bush in 2000 on his limited government,
pro-gun campaign, how did that workout?
She may seem a little anti-prohibition, and she is from a state
that seems to take personal liberties serious. I bet that changes
if she becomes VP.
I thought a guy that loved drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll as much as
anyone would ease the drug war, but he ended up being one of the
worst.
|8.29.08 @ 12:51PM|#
Or it could be a desire to actually see some men behave with
some common fucking courtesy, and not just say every stupid comment
that pops into their head.
This might be a blow to your world view but appreciating a woman
for her intelligence and her looks are not mutually exclusive
concepts. Some men have evolved.
I'd rather have a date with Condelezza Rice or Jennifer than some
Hollywood bimbo anyday! Looking at some nice tits is OK. But
talking with someone with nice tits about Euthyphro question is to
die for. I want children with that sort of person.
joshua corning|8.29.08 @ 12:51PM|#
An older gay man who goes after twinks?
Huh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking
|8.29.08 @ 12:52PM|#
NP,
It's just that I find Federer extremely boring to watch. It doesn't
take anything away from his dominance of the sport for so long, but
boring is boring.
I'd rather watch someone like Roddick, barely contained rage. But
being a Roddick fan is some tough going nowadays.
|8.29.08 @ 12:53PM|#
Oh I see the problem. You think you are funny.
No. I know it. Confidence is everything.
Urkobold™|8.29.08 @ 12:53PM|#
AT LAST, A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE/VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE
THAT AMERICA WOULD LIKE TO SEE NAKED. MEN LOVE HER. WOMEN WANT TO
HAVE LESBIAN SEX WITH HER.
THE URKOBOLD WANTS TO VISIT HIS BUNK.
|8.29.08 @ 12:55PM|#
Actually, I find the KosKidz defense of Amtrak much more
offensive than any jokes about a person's child...
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/29/1201/95899/169/577497
|8.29.08 @ 12:56PM|#
Federer is boring. He's awesome, yet boring. Kinda sux. McEnroe is unequal-able anyway. "Are you fucking blind, ref?!?"
|8.29.08 @ 12:56PM|#
corning:
Chickenhawk
Explained.
So there ya go.
It doesn't take anything away from his dominance of the sport
for so long, but boring is boring.
That's how I feel about Tiger. He dominates a sport that manages to
bore me with its highlight reels. Yikes.
NP|8.29.08 @ 12:58PM|#
SugarFree,
As you already know too well, many tennis connoisseurs would say
Roddick is more fun off the court than on. You know, the
"one-dimensional" schtick and all that.
I do enjoy watching Fed, though no one is gonna convince me he
would've beaten Sampras on their best days. I'd like to see more
serve-and-vollyers; today's bash-baseline play can get monotonous
after a while.
|8.29.08 @ 1:00PM|#
It's impossible to get, but if you want to see a fucked up documentary, check out Chicken Hawk.
|8.29.08 @ 1:00PM|#
In that Urkobold photo, check out the little girl. Is it just me, or does she look like she is about to turn into an It's Alive kid and eat the photographer?
Transponder,
By golly, you're right! Wow, if Palin can give birth to and control
Satan's evil spawn, well, maybe she's a better candidate than I
thought.
On tennis,
A Bjorn Borg clone using a modern racket could defeat them all.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:01PM|#
Epi, I know John has already taken you to task on that, so I won't repeat that here. But even McNasty doesn't hold a candle to Pancho Gonzales. If we could clone just one tennis player he'd be my first selection.
|8.29.08 @ 1:02PM|#
What do want to bet the handicapped kid jokes are flying on
Kos right now.
Commenting rights, John.
If there is a joke about Down Syndrome kids on Daily Kos right now,
I won't post for a month. If there is not, you don't post for a
month. I haven't looked. This offer is good until 1:03 Eastern
Standard Time.
|8.29.08 @ 1:02PM|#
Roddick definitely beats Federer
on the girlfriend front.
It's cool that Fed likes 'em a little meaty, but "DAAAAMMMMMM"
Andy!
|8.29.08 @ 1:03PM|#
NP, Gonzales is quite a bit before my time. I was just a little kid with the Mac, but he made me love Evil Tennis.
|8.29.08 @ 1:04PM|#
Scroll up, joe. You should really read the thread before making an offer like that.
|8.29.08 @ 1:04PM|#
They're emasculating, too!
Pardon me, as I have no spell checker. Wow, too bad spelling errors
invalidate arguments.
I also then murder my sense of humor and tie a cinderblock to
my sense of fun before I throw it in the lake.
And your sense of humor or fun has what exactly to do with whether
or not how someone looks is a valid point in considering whether
they're a good choice for a political position? When Katherine
Lopez makes comments about how dreamy Bush looked when he landed on
the aircraft carrier, we (rightly) chuckle at the ridiculousness of
it, but when people here make essentially the same comment about a
female politician, it gets taken seriously. Why do you
suppose that is?
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:05PM|#
Pro Libertate,
You're wrong, my friend. (Just so everyone knows I'm not
impersonating McCain. God, no.) Sampras could kick Borg's ass on
any surface but clay. In case anyone cares here's my GOAT list for
tennis (in order, and Open-era): Laver, Sampras, Fed, Borg, and
whoever the hell comes next.
|8.29.08 @ 1:05PM|#
I had no idea self-control and politeness were so
immasculating.
Goddamnit! Now I can't even come here without my wife sticking her
nose in my business. Honey, please for the last time, GO OUT!
Seriously, if you came here looking for that exclusively, you are
going to go home very disappointed.
Feel free to voice your dissent in as entertaining and
condescending manner as possible. joe can give you some
pointers.
|8.29.08 @ 1:08PM|#
Sampras could kick Borg's ass on any surface but
clay
When Sampras was losing, he would just ace your ass until he won.
Boring, but unstoppable.
|8.29.08 @ 1:09PM|#
I knew posting all those feministing comments would eventually come back to haunt me. Shem is just karma, guys. I sorry to have it blow back on you guys too.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:11PM|#
SugarFree, the only sin Mirka ever committed was to allow Fed to
wear that Wimby-white cardigan. I mean, talk about growing up too
fast.
Epi, I was barely a toddler when Mac was in his prime. I mention
Gonzales 'cause he once lunged into the stand to teach a heckler a
lesson. Not even Mac has ever done that.
|8.29.08 @ 1:12PM|#
When Katherine Lopez makes comments about how dreamy Bush
looked when he landed on the aircraft carrier, we (rightly) chuckle
at the ridiculousness of it, but when people here make essentially
the same comment about a female politician, it gets taken
seriously.
There's only one person here taking that seriously.
|8.29.08 @ 1:13PM|#
but when people here make essentially the same comment about
a female politician, it gets taken seriously
Are you fucking kidding me, dude? How many jokes are there on this
thread about her looks?
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:14PM|#
Epi, let's not forget his running forehand and overhead, but yeah, gotta say that's true. But he ain't no Roddick or Ivo Karlovic. The guy actually had this thing called an all-around game, at least in his earlier years.
|8.29.08 @ 1:14PM|#
they got your number on that one, Shem. I'd say the general attitude is that the "looks" aspect is NOT being taken seriously.
|8.29.08 @ 1:15PM|#
Seriously, if you came here looking for that exclusively,
you are going to go home very disappointed.
Actually, I've been coming here for quite a while. Though I admit I
stopped reading the comment threads for quite a long time. Starting
to remember why.
|8.29.08 @ 1:17PM|#
they got your number on that one, Shem. I'd say the general
attitude is that the "looks" aspect is NOT being taken
seriously.
And yet...the comment keeps being made. By people who betray no
hint that they're trying to be ironic, sarcastic, or anything of
the sort. Other than His Holiness URKOBOLD, of course.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:17PM|#
Shem, not sure if you're new or now, but you gotta understand this is an (almost) unregulated board. We're pretty a sick bunch of mostly very hetero males. Be forewarned if you didn't know that already.
time pedant|8.29.08 @ 1:17PM|#
This offer is good until 1:03 Eastern Standard
Time.
Hurry up John. You've still got the better part of an hour to
accept as 1:03 EST = 2:03 EDT.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Men can no more keep themselves from judging women on their
looks than you could just magically will yourself into not having
any more periods. It's a bodily function.
so you're basically a slave to your own body?
jesus, that sucks.
|8.29.08 @ 1:19PM|#
I'm starting to wonder if I'm required to stick by my earlier
statements:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126659.html#996700
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:19PM|#
new or NOT. This time I blame Jankovic. Where the hell is Safin when you need him?
|8.29.08 @ 1:22PM|#
You are all flaming idiots. Borg at his prime would wipe out
Sampras and/or Federer.
Incidentally, uninjured Pete is my vote for the second best after
Borg.
Clearly, this country needs a ghola program for tennis as well as
for the presidency, so that we can settle this issue once and for
all.
|8.29.08 @ 1:23PM|#
I think Palin's damned cute and I don't care if guys think so
too. Of course, I'm exactly Palin's age, and I aspire to maintain
my MILFness (I've been told I possess MILFness, FWIW) for a few
more years. I just wish I had her legs [hence my nickname. I'm not
round, just really f'ing short].
Considering how journalists both male and female have been
climaxing for months and months over a guy who looks like Howdy
Doody, I don't really care if Palin's looks are a factor in all
this.
And I'd rather look at just about anyone than Joe Biden (and Al
Gore, and and Joe Lieberman, and John Kerry - honest to God, when
is a Democratic presidential ticket going to carry at least one
face that is not disturbing to look at for more than a few
minutes?)
|8.29.08 @ 1:25PM|#
Shem, not sure if you're new or now, but you gotta
understand this is an (almost) unregulated board. We're pretty a
sick bunch of mostly very hetero males. Be forewarned if you didn't
know that already.i>
Not to sound like an old man, but that wasn't always so.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:28PM|#
Pro Libertate,
You've gotta be kidding me. Even McEnroe would wipe out
Borg if they played at their best. Sorry, but me says Pistol Pete
all the way down the T. But no argument on the ghola program.
|8.29.08 @ 1:28PM|#
More from Kos:
when I see it, and believe me this is pandering ... accept ANY
substitute. And, by the way, I know many women who might have made
the decision to have the child with Down's syndrome. What's that
got to do with qualifying to be vice president except to gain the
sympathy vote.
McCain is a noun, a verb, and POW.
Will Palin be a noun, a verb, and AWWWWWWW?
Don't criticize my lack of experience because I'm a mother who
cares for my children?
Talk about cynical, and people appear to be buying it.
Sheesh.
by AnnaMolly on Fri Aug 29, 2008 at 09:53:37 AM PDT
Kip|8.29.08 @ 1:30PM|#
"Or Obama. You never know. Condescension to a woman comes
surprisingly readily to most people."
Right you are, Smacky, right you are.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:31PM|#
Shem, then you must've been here longer than I have. Anyone else
care to confirm?
And Jankovic wins after about a thousand deuces. Heh.
|8.29.08 @ 1:32PM|#
dhex,
so you're basically a slave to your own body?
Pretty much. The point is to become comfortable with that
fact.
Anyway, never had any irrational mood swings, dhex?
Really? You and your body are the same thing. Why wouldn't physical
changes and effects affect the mind?
|8.29.08 @ 1:33PM|#
NP,
Did she have any of the song and dance? She hops around and plays
hurt better than a mama bird leading you away from her eggs.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:34PM|#
Pro Libertate,
In all seriousness, the reason Borg quit was because he didn't
wanna (possibly) stay No. 2 while McEnroe was around. And I'm not
just speculating here; Borg admitted this much himself. As you may
well know there are still quite a few tennis commentators that say
McEnroe is the most talented player ever to hold a racquet.
|8.29.08 @ 1:35PM|#
I hate it when I screw up a joke. Allow me to rephrase:
NP,
You're delusional. Borg has much more foreign policy experience than McEnroe.
|8.29.08 @ 1:35PM|#
And yet...the comment keeps being made.
No, when you showed up, the comments pretty much stopped, because,
now we had to deal with Mrs. Rev. Lovejoy.
Stay, go, mumble, bitch about the old days, I really don't care,
but for the love of god, pull the stick out of your ass.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:36PM|#
SugarFree, didn't see much movement from her post match. And shock of shocks--she didn't even call for a trainer!
|8.29.08 @ 1:37PM|#
I saw the two play multiple times. I don't agree that McEnroe was as good as Borg. Borg just wanted to go out on top--he was losing a step (due to energy, desire, whatever) when he left the game. He really was amazing on the court. And I do rank McEnroe quite highly, though I think healthy Sampras was the superior player.
|8.29.08 @ 1:40PM|#
Question: Will Federer quit soon so as to go out on top? Will he
pull a Borg?
I'm thinking yes.
|8.29.08 @ 1:43PM|#
JW,
The point you seem to be missing is that this *isn't* a boys club.
Politics are for *everyone* now, not just people with penises. What
Shem has so patiently been trying to explain to you and your
knuckle-dragging kind is that you ought to be embarrassed about
acting like a 12-year-old boy whenever the subject of women is
mentioned, or anything tangentially related to a woman appears on
Hit and Run. I would liken you all closest to a bunch of grown
women reading Teen Beat magazine and spending all their
time commenting on and thinking about Brad Pitt's butt or Christian
Slater's abs, or whoever is the celebutante of the day. It's
pathetic. Don't be one of those women.
Kip|8.29.08 @ 1:44PM|#
"McCain's pick looks like more of a viva Viagra decision. A
person whose most redeemable quality is her looks."
Brotherben,
Are you really that shallow or just a troll-in-training.
|8.29.08 @ 1:46PM|#
As you may well know there are still quite a few tennis
commentators that say McEnroe is the most talented player ever to
hold a racquet
Mac is the best of all time, stylistically. He was using fucking
wooden rackets, dudes! Wooden! Have you ever used a wooden racket?
There is a galaxy of difference between my O3 and a wooden
racket.
Question: Will Federer quit soon so as to go out on top? Will
he pull a Borg?
Yes. Nadal is too ascendant for him to remain numero uno.
00====D|8.29.08 @ 1:46PM|#
"The point you seem to be missing is that this *isn't* a boys
club. Politics are for *everyone* now, not just people with
penises."
Damn! When'd that happen?
advantage McEnroe|8.29.08 @ 1:47PM|#
As you may well know there are still quite a few tennis
commentators that say McEnroe is the most talented player ever to
hold a racquet.
YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!
dhex|8.29.08 @ 1:47PM|#
Anyway, never had any irrational mood swings, dhex? Really?
You and your body are the same thing. Why wouldn't physical changes
and effects affect the mind?
because without some kind of filter you'd be dead in hours, if not
days. no one is actually a slave to their every hedonic bodily
whim.
it's not whether you actually thought something or not, it's about
what you do with those urges. yes part of your brain lights up as
HURR HURR A GURL HURR HURR; in public, do you catcall? do you
whistle every time an attractive woman passes? if so, does the
metric change if she's with a man, especially if he's larger and
stronger than you are?
the last bit is interesting, as i found myself having to explain
more or less this exact phenomenon to the construction crew up my
block, when one of the workers went from saying "hey pretty lady"
to my wife as she passed every day to "i want you to have my baby."
with the imposition of consequence for this "natural" process of
being a douchenozzle, the situation changed for some reason. it
helps that i am a pituitary freak, to be sure, and the implicit
threat of violence is indeed also a "natural" reaction, especially
in evolutionary psych reasoning.
obviously the "natural" pull isn't nearly as strong as people put
forth.
i see the bullshit in the above thread as yet another manifestation
of this. a few steps past that and you start getting into greater
impositions of the will of one upon another: sexual assault and
other forms of violence. they are not the same, but they're part of
the same buffet of objectification. an inability to empathize or
humanize; an inability to control one's self. (a sad thing for
anyone who proclaims to believe in self-governance.)
it's also why i don't crap completely on feministing, because on
one level they're right. they're insane in part because the culture
is often deeply hostile to women, both implicitly and
explicitly.
a lot of men don't see women as people, but as things, be it part
of a homosocial bonding routine or as a kind of petty tyranny
towards strangers because one's personal desire takes precedence
over the routine of manners and social dignity.
|8.29.08 @ 1:50PM|#
Episiarch,
As was Borg. People unfamiliar with the old rackets have no
conception of the difference. I'm old enough to have played with a
wooden racket and young enough to play with a modern racket made of
massless neutrinos (or nearly massless). Besides the weight
difference and the superior stringing, there's also the size of the
heads--much bigger now.
Head! Down!
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:51PM|#
Pro Libertate,
I'll fess up and say I haven't seen the two play as much, but I
gotta say McEnroe at his best would've been unbeatable by anyone
but just a handful in history. I mean, just think McEnroe in his
1984 form. I'm not just taking about his win-loss percentage
(82-3), we all know about that. But just look at the margins by
which he thrashed his opponents, who are legends in their own
right: 6-1, 6-1, 6-2 in Wimby against Connors, and 6-3, 6-4, 6-1 at
the USO against Lendl.
Oh, but what about Borg in his 1978 form, you say? The one
who drubbed Vilas 6-1, 6-1, 6-3 in Roland Garros and Connors 6-2,
6-2, 6-3 in SW19? Yeah, I'll give you that. Relax, I do think Borg
and McEnroe are pretty much neck and neck. I just think the
American was better by a hair. Make of that what you will.
|8.29.08 @ 1:51PM|#
smacky,
My comment is what started Shem off:
A strongly pro-life VP candidate with five kids (one of which
has Down's Syndrome) that beat the incumbent Republican governor in
the primary and a former Democratic governor in the general
election? Oh, plus she hunts and fishes and is a lifetime member of
the NRA? AND she's attractive?
Yeah, JUST like Teen Beat. You and Shem can go take your
sanctimonious comments elsewhere.
|8.29.08 @ 1:53PM|#
Don't flatter yourself Marcvs. You were just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Kip|8.29.08 @ 1:55PM|#
"Nope. Men can no more keep themselves from judging women on
their looks than you could just magically will yourself into not
having any more periods. It's a bodily function."
That is incorrect. Many women take the pill every day of the month
(e.g., those who suffer from Endometriosis). They have no
period.
|8.29.08 @ 1:55PM|#
Yeah, because I mentioned that she was attractive and you JUST
COULDN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.
Whatever.
NP|8.29.08 @ 1:57PM|#
SugarFree, I doubt that. Just as much as I doubt Henin will
eventually come back. Just my gut feeling talkin'.
advantage McEnroe, I am serious. Some still say no one
ever had a better touch.
|8.29.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Marcvs,
I wasn't talking about you. I didn't look at the comments on this
thread all that closely. I was just talking about the emergent
pattern on most other Hit and Run threads.
And for the record I wouldn't call objecting to sexist remarks
"sanctimonious". Would you say the same thing about minorities if
they took exception to racist remarks? I don't think so. Or at
least I hope not.
|8.29.08 @ 1:59PM|#
NP,
In the end, all we can do is lump them into categories. Borg and
McEnroe are indeed in the very top tier. I'd also argue that men's
tennis is not what it once was in some respects, though that
doesn't take away from the guys at the top, necessarily.
About the sex thing. Once the erections of some of the males around
here have dissipated, I imagine that more sangfroid commentary will
occur. I am immune, because my wife is hotter than any mere
governor. But I recall how this works--initial excitement followed
by calm reasoning. And the realization that this chick is a total
psycho! No, wait, I'm channeling Episiarch. To whom I now pass the
baton.
|8.29.08 @ 2:02PM|#
smacky, do you really think the vast majority of us are at all serious? That these jokes are actually sexist and not a meta-joke involving stereotypical sexist remarks?
|8.29.08 @ 2:02PM|#
The point you seem to be missing is that this *isn't* a boys
club. Politics are for *everyone* now, not just people with
penises.
Where did I miss that point? I merely pointed out that this type of
silly banter here is normal. Feel free to ignore it. Or condemn it.
Either is cool with me. But if you want to put on the
holier-than-thou forum persona, you go right ahead and have fun
with that.
What Shem has so patiently been trying to explain to you and
your knuckle-dragging kind is that you ought to be embarrassed
about acting like a 12-year-old boy whenever the subject of women
is mentioned, or anything tangentially related to a woman appears
on Hit and Run.
What we have patiently been trying to explain to Shem is that this
is all in good fun. I seriously doubt that anyone here means any
shot that was made at Palin's expense. If you can't deal with the
comments made, I suggest that it's your problem.
Don't be one of those women.
A statement I can agree with. Heal thyselves.
I will note for clarity here that I made not one of the comments in
question. I still enjoyed them nonetheless.
|8.29.08 @ 2:03PM|#
smacky, fair enough, but my point was not that remarking about sexism is sanctimonious, but that remarking about non-existent sexism is sanctimonious. Also the schoolmarmish tone of a certain person's posts as well.
Kip|8.29.08 @ 2:04PM|#
"The Angry Optimist | August 29, 2008, 12:38pm | #
Do you know what a Chickenhawk is or not?
An older gay man who goes after twinks?
*Sigh* I guess 9/11 really did change everything."
This thread has a winner, folks!!!
dhex|8.29.08 @ 2:06PM|#
smacky, do you really think the vast majority of us are at
all serious? That these jokes are actually sexist and not a
meta-joke involving stereotypical sexist remarks?
i think the vast majority are, yes.
HURR HURR A GURL HURR HURR is the default response in many a post
about women, by women, including women, star trek (it had a woman
or two), etc. i did think it was a joke at first, years back; now i
know it's more or less the factory setting.
it's not all joking, anymore than the team red trolls are all
joking.
NP|8.29.08 @ 2:09PM|#
Pro Libertate,
Yeah, it's really impossible to compare players from different
eras. I mean, we're just talking about the Open-era players right
now. When you add in the potential GOATs of the previous
generations--Tilden, Vines, Budge, Kramer, Gonzales, Hoad,
etc.--many of whom we never got to see play, then the debate
becomes even more discombobulated.
Just so you know I do believe Borg is the best of his era. I just
think McEnroe on his best day would beat Borg on his best day on
any surface other than clay. And yeah, you're free to disagree.
Kip|8.29.08 @ 2:11PM|#
"The GOP being what it is, I'm sure that her looks played a part
in her selection. If she had been selected only for her looks and
not her credentials and character, that would be discouraging
indeed. However, that doesn't appear to be the case. Her looks
appear to be only icing on the cake, as far as I'm
concerned."
Smacky,
Saw a piture of you on H&R some years back and based on that,
and the comments of the posts about it, you are considered prettier
than most. So Im asking this as the brother of a women with an
undergrad in Womens Studies: has being pretty been a plus or a
minus in your efforts to succeed in life?
|8.29.08 @ 2:12PM|#
Mac's mad tennis skillz are inversely proportional to his talk show hosting skillz. He is, therefore, a better tennis player than Jesus.
|8.29.08 @ 2:13PM|#
dhex,
No, I don't catcall or whistle. But reason is not a construction
site and you and Shem aren't women innocently walking by.
Marcvs is correct. Just look at the comment he made that set Shem
off on her tirade. Mentioning that she's attractive? Jesus fuck,
that's just like beating and raping a woman. Any other false
equivalencies you'd like to pedal?
Shem started this shit by calling noting a woman to be attractive
"misogyny." Is that what misogyny is? The threshold's pretty
fucking low. Shem slings an insult that's also patently absurd, and
we are suppose to go "Yes, ma'am, we'll be good." Shem might be
new, but you sure aren't. Would we put up with it from a man? Do we
put up with it from anyone on any subject?
Are a lot of comments on here sexist? Of course they are. YOU DON'T
LIKE IT, DON'T COME HERE. The last thing we need is a fucking
feminist troll trying to rap our knuckles with rulers.
Kip|8.29.08 @ 2:15PM|#
"She just pronounced nuclear new-kew-ler. Doh!" The Kennedy's say Havaner Cuber. It's called American Regional Dialect. Get over it.
Seitz|8.29.08 @ 2:16PM|#
Sugarfree,
You found one, which was immediately called out as repulsive. It's
not surprising to find one idiotic comment. And it got the response
I suggested.
The second one you posted is no more making fun of her child as
pointing out that McCain responds to every question with POW is
"making fun" of him being a POW.
It wasn't very hard. You're not one of those people who think
liberals shit rainbows, are you?
No, but I also don't think that one comment at a site with millions
of visitors necessarily damns the whole party. I don't think you
think that either. John said the jokes would be flying. So far I've
seen exactly one example. It wasn't really flying. It was just
kinda sitting there. By itself.
Cochon|8.29.08 @ 2:17PM|#
Politics are for *everyone* now, not just people with
penises.
Sadly true. Biggest mistake men ever made was letting women vote.
Second biggest: letting them drive.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 2:18PM|#
Lighten. The fuck. Up. Dude. Srsly.
no. sorry.
that attitude isn't acceptable in the real world, at least not
around me; it contributes to an environment where i have to worry
about the safety and sanity of the women in my life because some
men cannot control themselves, and i worry how far that lack of
control goes. it is vulgar, not in the fun, genesis p-orridge sense
but in the "libertarian as fat sci fi nerd" sense.
you know, like in EVERY FUCKING KERRY HOWLEY POST SHE EVER FUCKING
MADE.
|8.29.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Also the schoolmarmish tone of a certain person's posts as
well.
Well, when a person or group's skull seems to be especially opaque
to clue-waves, subtlety sometimes needs to be abandoned. I'm sorry
I upset your delicate sensibilites.
|8.29.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Are a lot of comments on here sex^rac^ist? Of
course they are. YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T COME HERE. The last thing
we need is a fucking feminist troll trying to rap our knuckles with
rulers.
What I think is odd is that women are expected to put up with this
kind of spitefulness, whereas if these were comments made about
race, any number of these bigots would have been banned from Hit
and Run faster than a crude comment being posted on a Kerry Howley
thread.
I mean are people satisfied with this becoming a place that is
synonymous with sexism? I would think that might be an undesirable
thing, not a feature. Is Hit and Run the LewRockwell.com of
sexism?
dhex|8.29.08 @ 2:20PM|#
Jesus fuck, that's just like beating and raping a
woman.
see above:
"they are not the same, but they're part of the same buffet of
objectification. an inability to empathize or humanize; an
inability to control one's self. (a sad thing for anyone who
proclaims to believe in self-governance.)"
|8.29.08 @ 2:22PM|#
Seitz,
I didn't do it to defend John, but to say that someone wouldn't do
it was easy to shoot down. And that was within 15 minutes of the
announcement. Conservatives are no fucking better, what with the
Obama-monkey jokes, but to deny the venal in modern politics is
deluded.
The suggestions that she should be taking care of her son would
have been met with howls of protest from the left/feminist
blogosphere, but become she's THE ENEMY (as one charming Koser put
it), then it's far game.
No one smells like roses in this.
|8.29.08 @ 2:23PM|#
that attitude isn't acceptable in the real world, at least
not around me
Too fucking bad, tuff gai.
it contributes to an environment where i have to worry about
the safety and sanity of the women in my life because some men
cannot control themselves, and i worry how far that lack of control
goes
This is so ridiculously hyperbolic that I can't believe you have
the balls to assert it in multiple posts.
Get off your fucking high horse. You clearly get off on being above
us knuckledragging sexist scum. Except for the fact that can't even
get the meta-humor in it, that is. You might want to reconsider
your superiority complex, seeing as it's completely delusional.
|8.29.08 @ 2:25PM|#
Shem might be new
Again, not new. Been around since 2003. Google backs me up on that,
if you don't believe me.
Shem started this shit by calling noting a woman to be
attractive "misogyny."
No, I would call putting forward a woman's attractiveness as a mark
of her fitness to hold office misogyny. Which wasn't done in that
specific comment, but has been done, repeatedly, by several others.
How else is one to take "And she's attractive to boot!" It's
nonsense when people say it about Obama, why isn't it nonsense
now?
|8.29.08 @ 2:27PM|#
What I think is odd is that women are expected to put up
with this kind of spitefulness, whereas if these were comments made
about race, any number of these bigots would have been banned from
Hit and Run faster than a crude comment being posted on a Kerry
Howley thread.
Oh, I'm sorry... was the Oppression Olympics today? I'll
have to run home and get my track spikes.
|8.29.08 @ 2:27PM|#
I have delicate sensibilities? I'm
sorry, I'm not the one who went off because someone said that Sarah
Palin is attractive.
BTW, attractiveness has played a role in every election since 1960.
Grow the fuck up.
NP|8.29.08 @ 2:27PM|#
Epi, was Mac's talk show really that bad? Never got to see it, but given his glibness as a commentator (I mean that nicely) I find it hard to believe he totally sucked.
|8.29.08 @ 2:30PM|#
I have to say, for Reason being such a stand-up group of Cosmotarians, this place sure seems to be a welcoming haven for misogynist asshats. Not very cosmopolitan if you ask me.
|8.29.08 @ 2:33PM|#
And let's step back from the Womyn's Studies precipice for a
moment...
Of course Palin's looks factor into this. McCain had more qualified
women to choose from, Alaska is a solid red state, and her looks
are also bound up in her age.
Palin's attractiveness will be an issue in this election. Just go
read the KOS thread if you don't believe me.
|8.29.08 @ 2:34PM|#
smacky, don't you think there's a difference between sexist
comments and misogynistic ones?
I already said elsewhere I'm staying out of this fray, but
bigotry:racism :: sexism:misogyny.
|8.29.08 @ 2:34PM|#
it contributes to an environment where i have to worry about
the safety and sanity of the women in my life because some men
cannot control themselves, and i worry how far that lack of control
goes.
Then I would suggest to you of actually getting to know some men in
real life, so that you can possibly accept the concept that only a
very small fraction of men are rapists and murderers, rather than
parrot the brainless line that all men are suspects. Shocker! Most
of us are harmless and gasp! decent people.
Then, perhaps, you could engage on some self control over blurting
out every time a non-deferential comment is made about women of how
you're afraid of every Y chromosome out there and what some men are
capable of doing. You sound like the bigot afraid of the black guy
walking down the sidewalk.
|8.29.08 @ 2:36PM|#
It's nonsense when people say it about Obama, why isn't it
nonsense now?
Find me one woman who called Obama attractive and was called a
misandrist as a result. Just one and I'll eat a bell hooks
book.
Biden|8.29.08 @ 2:37PM|#
". How else is one to take "And she's attractive to boot!" It's
nonsense when people say it about Obama, why isn't it nonsense
now?"
My wife is Gorgeous! And she has a Ph.D.
|8.29.08 @ 2:40PM|#
I have to say, for Reason being such a stand-up group of
Cosmotarians, this place sure seems to be a welcoming haven for
misogynist asshats. Not very cosmopolitan if you ask me.
I have to say, for reason being such a stand-up group of
Cosmotarians, this place sure seems to be a welcoming haven for
humorless prigs. Not very fun if you ask me.
|8.29.08 @ 2:44PM|#
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Episarch, but you haven't been as funny as of late as you seem to think you are. On a scale of comparison, your jokes about female anatomy and sex are probably at the level of humor of Porky's Part Three. (I haven't even seen any of the Porky's movies, but estimating the laffability of a seventies sex comedy coupled with the fact that it is a sequel, I am willing to bet that Porky's part three sucks.)
Cochon|8.29.08 @ 2:45PM|#
Saw a piture of you on H&R some years back and based on
that, and the comments of the posts about it, you are considered
prettier than most.
"Prettier than most"? Come on, don't be a wuss. Just say it: smacky
is Hotel Alpha Whiskey Tango!
NP|8.29.08 @ 2:47PM|#
Epi, anything more boring than a June Cleaver-friendly informercial is pretty bad in my book. Gotcha. Really.
|8.29.08 @ 2:50PM|#
I am willing to bet that Porky's part three
sucks.
That would be Porky's Revenge. And yes, it did (as did the
rest).
|8.29.08 @ 2:50PM|#
(I haven't even seen any of the Porky's movies, but
estimating the laffability of a seventies sex
comedy coupled with the fact that it is a sequel, I am
willing to bet that Porky's part three sucks.)
Porky's Revenge, the third installment of the
Porky's trilogy, came out in 1985. The original
Porky's came out in 1983.
Make fun of Epi all you want, but leave Porky's out of
it.
|8.29.08 @ 2:51PM|#
but you haven't been as funny as of late as you seem to
think you are
Wow, having my humor critiqued by someone lacking a sense of one.
Biting criticism.
your jokes about female anatomy and sex are probably at the
level of humor of Porky's Part Three
I do jokes about female anatomy? The only one I know of is on this
thread and is a direct quote from South Park. See:
meta-humor by
referencing.
|8.29.08 @ 2:51PM|#
You're slipping, Epi. Maybe you and Nutrasweet need to renew your vows and go on a cruise together or something. Anything to freshen up your routine.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 2:54PM|#
Get off your fucking high horse. You clearly get off on
being above us knuckledragging sexist scum. Except for the fact
that can't even get the meta-humor in it, that is. You might want
to reconsider your superiority complex, seeing as it's completely
delusional.
it's not delusional.
i fully admit that having to actually interact with this attitude
in the real world may have changed my perspective to a bit more
serious than people would care for; but having watched the usual
"hey baby baby" routine hundreds of times at this point, coupled
with having to hear my wife's stories of getting the verbal version
of many of the comments for many, many hit and run posts that are
sometimes only peripherally involved with women...yeah, i begin to
think of it as a serious character flaw.
it is a problem that many, many men have, and that, like casual
racism, should be objected to.
i speak from the heart; if this injures some of the commentariat,
or wounds their self-esteem, so be it. if objecting to HURR HURR A
GURL makes me a sanctimonious feminist troll, so be it, but i
strenuously object. if that's me riding my high horse, then so be
that, too. i don't think right and wrong are high-horse issues,
personally, but i am in the minority in many things in life.
i don't know if you're married or dating or single or whatever, but
what would you do if a stranger told your sister, or wife, or
mother, or female friend that he wanted to impregnate her? would
you shrug and say "oh well, it's all in good fun?" or that he's
just joking? would it be acceptable even if he was joking? if not,
why not?
because in that scenario we all recognize that treating women as
objects of sexual pleasure is wrong. or at the very least, severely
rude. is it the attitude that's wrong, or just being in physical
proximity that makes it wrong?
let me give you another example that didn't involve someone i
directly cared about: it's about midnight on a friday in october of
last year, heading back in from my cma class out in queens, and
it's just me and a quiet, tired woman in nurse's scrubs in the
car.
around 21st/ely, a slightly drunk man gets on the train. he
immediately begins chatting up, or attempting to, the woman in the
seat; "hey, you're pretty. you've got nice hair." and so on and so
forth.
unsolicited and ignored, his lust turns to rage about 60 seconds
later. he begins screaming about how no one would "want her ugly
old pussy anyway" and how much of a man he was.
he only stopped when i interjected myself between them, because i
am a frightening person.
his final response before getting off the train, btw, was "she's
just some bitch."
like she was a toy to be played with.
|8.29.08 @ 2:56PM|#
Homophobic insults? You two have alluded repeatedly to your
homoerotic friendship. I wasn't attempting to insult either of you,
nor am I homophobic. I was just making reference to all of your
previous jokes.
Jeez...and I'm the one accused of not having a sense of humor.
J|8.29.08 @ 2:56PM|#
Speaking of Episiarch and female anatomy:
Epi, I have a few ideas how to translate your name (and I think its
from a book you mentioned in the past), but Episi(sometimes o)
refers to a part of said anatomy.
|8.29.08 @ 2:57PM|#
Find me one woman who called Obama attractive and was called
a misandrist as a result. Just one and I'll eat a bell hooks
book.
SF, don't you know yet? It's OK for a woman to comment on a man's
looks, but it's simply out-of-the-question for a man to have
similarly unclean thoughts. It's just not allowed any longer.
Sex and the City should have cleared that up for you:
women are smart and droll when they talk about sex. Men are just
pigs.
That's why Bill Clinton could be asked "boxers or briefs?" and we
all either giggled or rolled our eyes, but if someone asks Palin
"grannies or bikini?", well, start sharpening the pitch forks and
soaking the torches in oil. (Here's hoping Palin looks the
questioner straight in the eye and answers, "Commando!")
"Get him, girls!"
|8.29.08 @ 2:59PM|#
i don't know if you're married or dating or single or
whatever, but what would you do if a stranger told your sister, or
wife, or mother, or female friend that he wanted to impregnate
her?
My wife would tear his balls off. Instead of, you know, waiting for
a white knight feminist man to come to her rescue. Or complaining
about it on-line to men who had no part in the incident at all.
|8.29.08 @ 3:02PM|#
Jeez...and I'm the one accused of not having a sense of
humor.
Yeah, a bit insulting when you get called something you're not or
have a remark taken out of context as evidence of bigotry, isn't
it?
But them I'm just a "misogynist asshat," right?
|8.29.08 @ 3:02PM|#
i don't know if you're married or dating or single or
whatever, but what would you do if a stranger told your sister, or
wife, or mother, or female friend that he wanted to impregnate
her?
I'd let her handle it. My mother, sister, and girlfriends are not
people who need me to take care of it for them and would be
offended if I did.
|8.29.08 @ 3:03PM|#
dhex, comparing the comments on this blog to that creep on the train is not just outrageous, it's insulting. As someone with two sisters and a girlfriend, I have seen nothing posted here that even remotely borders on what you are talking about.
|8.29.08 @ 3:03PM|#
it's about midnight on a friday in october of last year,
heading back in from my cma class out in queens
You live in the boroughs. That's yer problem right there.
|8.29.08 @ 3:05PM|#
Jeez...and I'm the one accused of not having a sense of
humor.
NutraSweet nailed you hard core for double standard and this is
your response? Woman up and just admit it.
|8.29.08 @ 3:06PM|#
I'm still patiently waiting for the description of how sexism =
misogyny.
Also, does anybody on either side of this debate believe that the
comments made here are legitimate expressions of female
hatred?
Or is this an exercise in revealed preferences and
psychologizing?
I also see merit in the point above about chuckling over Bill's
underwear and going apeshit over Sarah's.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 3:06PM|#
i'm sorry that you guys feel like you're being victimized here,
even if i don't quite understand why.
feminists have never done anything to effect your life, beyond
words written on a blog, right? have you had roving gangs of
womens' studies majors gang up on you in public? have they
threatened you with assault or other physical harms?
probably not, right?
i'm not complaining to you guys, btw. i'm explaining why i feel it
necessary to interject as i do, and why i think it's important on a
social level, though i don't know you from shinola.
just as i have a great deal of pride in watching how pretty much
everyone has been socialized to treat LoneWacko like the
FoolishClown he is, it's not because i don't like lonewacko - i
don't think i would, but again, no idea who or what he is - but
because the attitude itself is toxic.
|8.29.08 @ 3:09PM|#
Your hero complex is staggering, dhex. Do you have a cape and spandex tights to go with it?
dhex|8.29.08 @ 3:10PM|#
dhex, comparing the comments on this blog to that creep on
the train is not just outrageous, it's insulting. As someone with
two sisters and a girlfriend, I have seen nothing posted here that
even remotely borders on what you are talking about.
again, and for the last time, i will reference my original
qualification:
"they are not the same, but they're part of the same buffet of
objectification. an inability to empathize or humanize; an
inability to control one's self. (a sad thing for anyone who
proclaims to believe in self-governance.)"
they are not the same thing, but i think they come from the same
wellspring.
if it makes you feel better ideologically, that blog about forcibly
sodomizing ann coulter - and all the liberal jokes about her having
an adam's apple - are the same kind of thing.
|8.29.08 @ 3:10PM|#
Women are a lot tougher than the impression given in this thread. Anyway, I'm done with this topic.
|8.29.08 @ 3:11PM|#
have you had roving gangs of womens' studies majors gang up
on you in public? have they threatened you with assault or other
physical harms?
In all fairness these kinds of unfortunate events don't happen to
most women.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 3:12PM|#
hero complex?
maybe i do. i don't think it's unreasonable to help people. i'm
rather retrograde in my notions of gender roles, so that's entirely
possible.
|8.29.08 @ 3:12PM|#
i'm sorry that you guys feel like you're being victimized
here, even if i don't quite understand why.
I don't feel victimized, I feel nagged. I don't react well to
nagging, obviously.
Policing other people's thoughts, feelings, reactions, attitudes
and opinions has zero compatibility with libertarianism. I don't
have a problem with women, I have a problem with being told what to
do.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 3:13PM|#
In all fairness these kinds of unfortunate events don't
happen to most women.
i used to think that way.
http://hollabacknyc.blogspot.com/2008/08/sometimes-stories-we-get-at.html
NP|8.29.08 @ 3:14PM|#
What the hell is the matter with you, folks? Federer is playing in Ashe and this is what you consider more important and interesting? So much for the GOAT debate.
|8.29.08 @ 3:15PM|#
Hey, did you guys hear? McCain chose Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his VP candidate. Pretty groovy!
SIV|8.29.08 @ 3:18PM|#
I am willing to bet that Porky's part three
sucks.
One of the best soundtrack albums ever. Porky's Revenge
features mostly Dave Edmunds,with tracks by Jeff Beck, Clarence
Clemons, George Harrison,Carl Perkins,Willie Nelson and the
Crawling King Snakes featuring Robert Plant,Dave Edmunds,Phil
Collins. I believe most or all of the record was recorded just for
the soundtrack. I don't think there was ever a CD issue.
dhex|8.29.08 @ 3:20PM|#
I don't feel victimized, I feel nagged. I don't react well
to nagging, obviously.
Policing other people's thoughts, feelings, reactions, attitudes
and opinions has zero compatibility with libertarianism. I don't
have a problem with women, I have a problem with being told what to
do.
so if you're hanging out with someone, and they say something you
think is off base - or even just factually incorrect - you never
say anything?
this blog actually posts quite a bit about people who have - i
think - deeply wrong positions on a number of political and moral
issues. the war on drugs, for example - reason rightfully mocks,
critiques and even outright lays into ondcp types, law und order
folk defending no knock raids under any circumstances, etc.
anyway, i am out like shout for this glorious holiday weekend. may
you all shortly do the same.
|8.29.08 @ 3:21PM|#
i'm rather retrograde in my notions of gender
roles
And we're the sexist pigs? "I must protect the little wimmenz" is
pretty seriously sexist, Clark Kent.
NP|8.29.08 @ 3:24PM|#
SugarFree, maybe I'm a misogynist me-self 'cause I don't find women's matches as interesting as men's.
|8.29.08 @ 3:25PM|#
but i think they come from the same wellspring.
Have you ever considered the option that you might just be full of
shit and grasping at straws for validation?
And good for you for standing up for that woman; I would have
likely done the same. That doesn't mean jack for your
divorced-from-reality views about men though.
|8.29.08 @ 3:26PM|#
so if you're hanging out with someone, and they say
something you think is off base - or even just factually incorrect
- you never say anything?
Of course I do. But I don't call them
bigots/misogynists/racists/etc when they try to retort. Shem wasn't
correcting something factually incorrect, she was trying to tell
someone that their opinion about something innocuous is hate. And
you are comparing us to train rapists.
SIV|8.29.08 @ 3:27PM|#
feminists have never done anything to effect your life, beyond
words written on a blog, right?
That and the whole "right to vote" thing which totally fucked up
the country and did more to kill the libertarian spirit of America
than anything else I can think of. Womens sufferage came
hand-in-hand with Prohibition. It is why " the right to affordable
child care" is a critical National political issue while the size
and scope of government is a "fringe" issue. I firmly support
women's right to self determination and equality of
oportunity.
Their collective exercise of voting is as good an argument against
Democracy as any.
|8.29.08 @ 3:27PM|#
Policing other people's thoughts, feelings, reactions,
attitudes and opinions has zero compatibility with libertarianism.
I don't have a problem with women, I have a problem with being told
what to do.
SugarFree,
Ok, so then you would object to people decrying someone who came
onto Hit and Run and started posting racist tripe? Because no one
should make an attempt to correct that way of thinking, or at least
cease the comments? See also dhex's post at 3:20pm.
Epi,
I'm not admitting anything I'm not guilty of. I read the comments
here, and you've been making reference to your "relationship" for
many months now. I was referencing that. It was not a homophobic
jab of any sort.
And I think I will follow dhex's suit and bow out of the
thread.
|8.29.08 @ 3:29PM|#
Maybe you and Nutrasweet need to renew your vows and go on a
cruise together or something. Anything to freshen up your
routine.
Hm, reference to a gay cruise? Sounds at least like stereotyping to
me.
|8.29.08 @ 3:32PM|#
This makes a lot of sense from a purely political analysis.
Palin is from a state that is looking to be a swing state this
election -- only 3 EV, but that's more than the zero additional EV
Obama gets from picking a candidate from a solid, can't-lose Blue
state. She will help pick off Hillary supporters who play at
identity politics and just want a woman in the White House,
regardless of ideology. She's young and attractive, and there
really are lots of voters who care about stupid shit like that (see
Obama, Barack).
She obviously is going to destroy any credibility of Republican
attempts to paint Obama as too young and inexperienced and
unqualified.
None of this, of course, means Palin would necessarily make a good
president if it comes to that, which SHOULD be the sole criteria if
politics attracted people of integrity (hint: it doesn't).
But, unless Palin's got some major weaknesses I haven't heard
about, she appears to be one of the savvier choices from a purely
political angle that McCain could have gone with, Bobby Jindal
being another.
|8.29.08 @ 3:32PM|#
NP,
I love women's matches. There is much more variation to their game.
And since few of them have a complete game, watching them
compensate leads to some of the best tennis. Look at Dementieva.
She was winning matches in-spite of 88 MPH serves and double-digit
double faults.
The only thing I really hate about the women's matches is that they
have a tendency to not move the camera's around during the match.
They usually plant three stationary cameras and flip between them.
And the main bird's eye camera is often really far away. If
Sharapova is two inches tall on my 50' inch TV, you need to tighten
up the fucking shot, guys.
|8.29.08 @ 3:35PM|#
I'm not admitting anything I'm not guilty of
Wow, that's fucking exactly what NutraSweet and I are doing. So
glad you're capable of seeing it for yourself but not for us.
People who can't laugh at themselves, like you and dhex, really
need to grow up and stop taking yourselves so fucking seriously.
Really.
|8.29.08 @ 3:37PM|#
McCain may be 72 but I think Obama pissed his pants this morning. My wife had no interest in McCain until he nominated a chick with a special needs child. Also the hypocrit msm will try to make something of Palin getting her sister's hubby fired, yet never mention Hillary's role in getting Billy Dale indighted. As I said earlier today, Hillary gals love ball busting by a strong woman.
|8.29.08 @ 3:38PM|#
smacky,
Of course I love making fun of racists. Making fun of them, not try
to reform them.
And I reject the Oppression Olympics of casual, even joking, sexism
as being the equivilent of racism. When an actual,
honest-to-goodness misogynist, someone who feels utter contempt and
hatred for women ever shows up, I'll mock the fuck out of them
too.
I'm not admitting anything I'm not guilty of
Sorry, but that has to be the most clueless comment of the week.
Kudos.
NP|8.29.08 @ 3:40PM|#
SugarFree,
So you know I said that with a big tongue in my cheek. Me like
women's matches me-self.
And I actually like the cameras' positions fine as they are. Unless
you're talking about the ones in, say, Ashe Stadium, but in that
case it's the stadium that's at fault. I really don't know what
they were thinking when they decided to construct a tennis
stadium that high. Well, the USTA does a lot of stupid things, and
it certainly wasn't the last.
|8.29.08 @ 3:41PM|#
There's probably plenty of negatives to the Palin selection, but
taking away the ability of the GOP to criticize Obama's lack of
experience isn't one of them. She's the vice-presidential
candidate, with comparable (and, in some ways, superior) experience
to the Democrat's presidential nominee.
Compare her to Biden, if you like, but the head-to-head comparison
is a better play. Emphasizing the experience issue is exactly what
the McCain campaign expects and is counting on.
voxpo|8.29.08 @ 3:43PM|#
Kip | August 29, 2008, 2:15pm | #
"She just pronounced nuclear new-kew-ler. Doh!" The Kennedy's say
Havaner Cuber. It's called American Regional Dialect. Get over
it.
Really? What region says new-kew-ler?
|8.29.08 @ 3:44PM|#
And I reject the Oppression Olympics of casual, even joking,
sexism as being the equivilent of racism.
Why? Sexism and racism are the same thing: collectivist regard of a
group based on the physical attributes that they were born with.
They are not different when it comes down to it.
When an actual, honest-to-goodness misogynist, someone who
feels utter contempt and hatred for women ever shows up, I'll mock
the fuck out of them too.
What I think you don't understand is that sexism is more insidious
and dispersed than that. It is a dark and subtle undercurrent, not
something that walks in wearing an "I disregard women"
t-shirt.
"Joking sexism" only exists in the same way that "joking racism"
does, if it does. And I'm not sure it does.
|8.29.08 @ 3:54PM|#
And Urkobold provides a crystal clear, perfect example of
"joking sexism", right on cue. Get it now, smacky?
We have lots of "joking homophobia" and no one complains. We have
lots of "joking racism" when mocking LoneDoofus.
Yet the "joking sexism" is too much? Again, lighten the fuck up and
grow thicker skin. And most of all, don't attack people who are
totally not sexist at all but do enjoy making all kinds of
offensive jokes.
|8.29.08 @ 3:57PM|#
I understand sexism perfectly. I just don't think it's a
conspiracy. And I don't think feminism's solutions to it have
anything to do with promoting freedom. Women don't seem to want to
be treated as equals. Men insult men constantly and in fashions
that would be hair-raising to most women if they actually heard it.
Women don't want to be coddled, either. It's infantilizing, and I
agree that would be bad.
So what women seem to be suggesting is that they be the sole
arbiters of men's behavior and attitudes.
Fuck that. You want to be a mom, go squeeze one out.
I'm going home, too.
And Shem, if you have any luck in that search, shoot me an email. I
thinking Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center braised
with parsnips and shallots.
|8.29.08 @ 4:07PM|#
"Joking sexism" only exists in the same way that "joking
racism" does, if it does. And I'm not sure it does.
See, at al: Chris Rock, Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Redd Foxx,
etc, etc.
And I think that every one of them is hysterical when they make fun
of whitey. I don't feel the need to stand there with my
hands-on-hips and correct their intentional exaggerations.
Which, may be a telling difference between men and women.
|8.29.08 @ 4:08PM|#
I'm going home, too.
Damnit. They're not letting us out early for the holiday. Oh
well.
Urkobold™|8.29.08 @ 4:09PM|#
EPISIARCH, YOU FOOL, THE URKOBOLD DOES NO SUCH THING. HE SIMPLY WANTS TO KNOW IF HIS FAVORITE FEMALE EMPLOYEE IS ENJOYING CASUAL FRIDAY PER THE URKOBOLD'S STATED POLICY. WRITTEN, THE URKOBOLD MIGHT ADD, BY MINIONETTE SMACKY.
|8.29.08 @ 4:15PM|#
Men insult men constantly and in fashions that would be
hair-raising to most women if they actually heard it.
Right. And women insult women in fashions that would scandalize
most men. That's not the same thing, because it's one member of a
group insulting another member of the same group. Kind of like how
you can insult your own family, or people that you know personally,
but other people who don't know your family or friends can't.
Women aren't attempting to control men's behavior. Some of us here
-- women and men, too -- are asking others here not to be such
dicks and have a little common courtesy. That's all. I don't insult
some random politician's manhood just because I disagree with his
policies, and it should work both ways.
You have a persecution complex, SugarFree. You need to check
yourself before you wreck yourself.
|8.29.08 @ 4:21PM|#
That's not the same thing, because it's one member of a
group insulting another member of the same group. Kind of like how
you can insult your own family, or people that you know personally,
but other people who don't know your family or friends
can't.
See kids? 50% of the planet has enough in common and insular enough
that the other 50% of the planet cannot say "boo" about their
habits.
yeah, I can't figure it out either. Especially since women are just
as catty and brutal about how men look as is true of the inverse,
if not more so.
Just today I heard some ladies giggling that McCain looks like a
"creepy old perv". Oh yeah, and how Obama is all sexy and shit.
Urkobold™|8.29.08 @ 4:25PM|#
MINIONETTE SMACKY,
THE URKOBOLD IS PLEASED BY YOU. HAVE A COOKIE, AND GO BEFORE YOUR
WEBCAM AND ENGAGE IN LESBIAN SEX WITH YOUNG LINGUIST.
THE URKOBOLD FINDS SATISFACTION IN HIS WORK. . .[INCLINES HEAD
TO LISTEN TO HIS GENERAL COUNSEL'S WHISPERED COMMENTS]. . .AND
IS IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH FEDERAL LAWS AGAINST SEXUAL
DISCRIMINATION. BE SURE TO BEND OVER IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA TO PICK
UP THE PAPERS THAT THE URKOBOLD DROPPED IN YOUR OFFICE.
|8.29.08 @ 4:25PM|#
Especially since women are just as catty and brutal about
how men look as is true of the inverse, if not more so.
Turnabout, fair play, etc. Any comments I have made to that effect
have been mindful of this. Yeah, it's petty and superficial, but
then again I didn't start the conversation about misogyny on this
here thread. I just joined the pile-on because it's Friday and I
needed a hobby for a minute.
Have a nice holiday weekend, everyone.
|8.29.08 @ 4:25PM|#
You collectivism is unappealing, smacky. I'll insult whomever I damn well please.
|8.29.08 @ 4:26PM|#
meh, I'm in the fray to distract me from the very boring
homework on "Basics of Legal Research".
Yech.
GG|8.29.08 @ 5:27PM|#
Uh oh. Craig Ferguson (::swoon::) is just begging for an outraged feminist to smack him down over his "misogynistic" remarks about Sarah Barracuda!
miche|8.29.08 @ 9:55PM|#
As a woman who revels in my GILF status, I'd like to point out
that indeed Sarah Palin is quite attractive and there's nothing
wrong with anybody saying so. I'll also go on record right now and
say that when I heard about McCain picking her for VP, I actually
reconsidered abstaining from that vote.
At this time I think I'm sticking with my plan to vote LP
candidates in state and local races (TX) and nothing in the prez
race but McCain could have done much, much worse than Palin. (The
worst part is the glee that is likely on Dondero's face right now.
I hate the thought of him happy.)
|8.29.08 @ 10:03PM|#
Obama supporters are always trying to give the false impression that Obama has soooo many people who want him … but, in reality, in both the primaries, and in this general election, Obama cannot get more than half of the voters. Actually, Palin has more experience and qualifications than Obama. Obama was a community organizer, with no executive experience, who has spent most of his short term as a senator, running for President. Palin, a mayor, and a governor, has already stood up to special interests and big oil companies, while Obama has not shown any kahonies yet, except for when he threw his friend, advisor and mentor of 20 years, under the bus. If Palin could get 90% of the women's vote, because she is a woman ... just like Obama gets 90% of the black vote, because he is black ... it would be good for our country.
Gun owners perspective|8.30.08 @ 3:42AM|#
The solution is now on the problem's ticket. Interesting. LOL
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