Reason Magazine
- reason.com
- reason.tv
- reason.org
- Donate
- Site Search:
Reason on Facebook
Reason on Twitter
Reason on YouTube
Reason RSSGet Reason E-mail Updates!
Manage your Reason e-mail list subscriptionsadvertisements
Woke Up This Morning, Got Yourself a BB Gun
Ryan Narcisco, a 20-year old mall clerk, might go to jail for keeping a BB gun in his car.
The gun, a Gamo P-23, was sitting under the rear window of the 2004 coupe. Looking like a larger-caliber handgun, the firearm drew a quick response from the bicycle-patrol officer who stopped Narciso for doing 40 mph in a 25-mph zone. With gun drawn, the officer arrested him.
Narciso's father, an architect, bought the pellet gun at a garage sale a few years ago to fend off squirrels that made their way into the attic of the families home on Mount Pleasant Avenue in Edison, the father and Narciso's lawyer, Amilcar Perez of Perth Amboy, said.
Under a new state law, Narciso's possession of the weapon qualifies as a Graves Act offense. Narciso could face what prosecutors and criminal defense attorneys call a "hard three," meaning three years with no prospect of parole.
How did the law get so strict? By accident.
With little or no fanfare, lawmakers stiffened the Graves Act in the last session. They folded the amendment into anti-gang legislation that Gov. Jon S. Corzine signed into law in January.
Now, the simple unlawful possession of any firearm can bring mandatory penalties for anyone who pleads guilty to or is convicted of that crime alone.
Narcisco might come out ahead in this—he's drawn attention to a boneheaded law and might not have to do the prison time. But the article, by Ken Serrano, has more examples of the law being misapplied.
Ska|7.7.08 @ 4:33PM|#
Seriously, you have to be at a-whole-'nother level of retarded to prosecute this looking to put this guy away for 3 years for what amounts to speeding with a bb gun.
Rimfax|7.7.08 @ 4:40PM|#
Me: What state is this?
Myself: Oh, of course,...it's New Jersey.
I: Nevermind.
|7.7.08 @ 4:40PM|#
The definition of firearm in NJ includes the following:
It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is in
the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a
similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, elastic
band, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas, or vapor, air or
compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a
bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in
diameter, with
sufficient force to injure a person.
Fluffy|7.7.08 @ 4:41PM|#
I gotta go with Other Matt here. BB guns aren't "firearms". Their cartridges don't have a charge. If a BB gun is a "firearm" so is a slingshot.
|7.7.08 @ 4:41PM|#
Where is that famous prosecutorial discretion I hear so much
about?
Proscutors seem to be keeping their "prosecutorial discretion"
powder dry to use it in cases where the perp is politcally
connected or a very well off person/celebrity
Windypundit|7.7.08 @ 4:42PM|#
I think what appalls me about this is that a pellet gun is considered a firearm. Christ, when I was a kid I used to shoot a pellet gun in my backyard in Chicago. Nobody cared.
Fluffy|7.7.08 @ 4:43PM|#
Well, OK, Dean has found the answer.
New Jersey's definition of a "firearm" is simply absurd, so we
should not be surprised that we are see an absurd outcome.
GIGA.
If I claimed that the definition of "firearm" It included, without
limitation, all small mammals with four legs, whiskers, and a tail,
they'd lock me away. But coming up with similarly absurd
definitions gets you a state legislator's paycheck instead if you
do it in Jersey.
Windypundit|7.7.08 @ 4:44PM|#
Where is that famous prosecutorial discretion I hear so much
about?
Kept in careful reserve so it can be used when cops beat people up,
raid the wrong house and shoot unarmed folks, falsify court
documents, etc.
.|7.7.08 @ 4:47PM|#
Guys in my high school used to shoot pellet guns all the time. It was no big deal.
Tym|7.7.08 @ 4:49PM|#
If a BB gun is a "firearm" so is a slingshot.
It would appear so:
It shall also include, without limitation, any firearm which is
in the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon
of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring,
elastic band, carbon dioxide,
...
Zeb|7.7.08 @ 4:54PM|#
If a BB gun is a firearm, so is a fucking spitball. Shouldn't a firearm involve some actual fire?
|7.7.08 @ 4:56PM|#
Memo from NJ Attorney General to all NJ Law Enforcement agencies. Be on the lookout for several hundred criminals possessing unlicensed firearms in your jurisdiction. They can be found routinely on construction sites, often doing roofing or framing work. Each should be considered armed and dangerous.
|7.7.08 @ 4:56PM|#
How did the law get so strict? By accident.
With little or no fanfare, lawmakers stiffened the Graves Act in
the last session. They folded the amendment into anti-gang
legislation that Gov. Jon S. Corzine signed into law in
January.
Now, the simple unlawful possession of any firearm can bring
mandatory penalties for anyone who pleads guilty to or is convicted
of that crime alone.
Wiegel repeats the claim of the story's author that the law was
changed by mistake. How does that fact that the law was passed
"with little or no fanfare" as part of broader anti-gang
legislation prove that the law was changed "by accident"?
Narcisco might come out ahead in this-he's drawn attention to a
boneheaded law and might not have to do the prison time. But the
article, by Ken Serrano, has more examples of the law being
misapplied.
Again, it's a stupid law, but as written, it appears it does
include bb guns. So how does arresting someone who has a bb gun
qualify as "the law being misapplied"?
|7.7.08 @ 5:07PM|#
Actually even in rootin' tootin' Houston firing a BB gun in the
city limits is "unlawful discharge of a firearm". Probably the same
in your fine locale.
This is why I am building a 10 MW railgun.
|7.7.08 @ 5:12PM|#
Zeb beat me to it. Where is the 'fire' in this firearm? You
know, the spark that ignites the propellant??
the law was passed "with little or no fanfare" as part of
broader anti-gang legislation
Except for their much narrower barrels, some BB guns look exactly
like real guns. I'm guessing some junior league criminals use them
to intimidate their victims. My guess is the fine law makers in NJ
where looking for a way to get tough on these thugs.
|7.7.08 @ 5:20PM|#
I have a BB gun in my car right now. I keep it there to use on the kid next door who won't quit lighting damn bottle rockets and throwing them in my yard.
Strictly Commercial|7.7.08 @ 5:22PM|#
Why do we love the law more than we do each other? I smell proto fascism.
|7.7.08 @ 5:28PM|#
Several years ago, I had a summer internship in New Jersey. I was smart enough to realize I couldn't take any of my real firearms with me. But upon checking into it further, I realized that according to the great state of New Jersey my single shot, manually-operated competition-grade .17 air pistol was considered a firearm, and therefore restricted on roughly the same level of an AR15.
|7.7.08 @ 5:30PM|#
At state and federal level there are already so many laws on the book there should rarely be any need for new ones. But of course politicians feel the need to constantly pass new laws. A misguided work ethic I think. Instead they should all be forced to take about 8 months paid vacation time every year.
|7.7.08 @ 5:31PM|#
My erstwhile home state, Dirty Jersey, is only slightly less
free than a Siberian Gulag.
Do you think the real-life Tony Sopranos are bothered by the
draconian details of Garden State firearms law?
|7.7.08 @ 5:32PM|#
Don't bb guns have those orange tips to distinguish them from real guns?
BB guns aren't required to have them, however I believe it is
federal law that all toy guns must either be brightly colored, or
have an orange tip.
This includes all of the ultra-realistic looking airsoft guns,
which shoot plastic pellets.
Paul|7.7.08 @ 5:32PM|#
Now, the simple unlawful possession of any firearm
Firearm... so... what's the connection between the law about
firearms and the pellet gun they found in the back of his car?
|7.7.08 @ 5:33PM|#
So, presumably, federal law recognizes that BB guns aren't toys, but anyone with more than two synapses to rub together should also be able to realize that they aren't firearms, either.
Rimfax|7.7.08 @ 5:42PM|#
...carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas, or vapor, air or
compressed air,...
Would seem to include BB guns and spitballs.
...with sufficient force to injure a person.
Would seem to disqualify both, unless one were using Fire Marshall
Bill logic.
Steve Verdon|7.7.08 @ 5:49PM|#
Where is that famous prosecutorial discretion I hear so much about?
It is only valid for friends and family. Geez, c'mon that was an
obvious one.
...spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring...
Soooo...the little toy gun I buy my son that uses a spring and
shoots tiny foam/plastic projectiles is a firearm and he could go
to jail like Ryan Narciso (if we lived in New Jersey)? After all he
could shoot someone in the eye with it.
And why include bb guns...are gangs using bb guns now?
Jesus but people in New Jersey must be stupid. You either like this
stuff, tolerate it, and/or vote for the people who do this kind of
stuff.
db|7.7.08 @ 5:53PM|#
In NJ possession of an expended cartridge case is a felony without a firearms license. A single hollow-point pistol round rolling around on the floor of your car can net you a hefty fine and a year in the clink.
|7.7.08 @ 6:11PM|#
with sufficient force to injure a person.
Would seem to disqualify both,
You'll shoot your eye out!
JB|7.7.08 @ 6:45PM|#
db, carrying around brass is a felony? LOL.
I'm sure we can find some dumb Jersey laws and start making citizen
arrests. "Sorry state legislator, I realize it's 3am, but I'm
outside your window and I can hear you snoring."
|7.7.08 @ 6:52PM|#
Wow, so now we need to debate if bb guns, slingshots, and
projectile shooting toys have 2nd amendment rights?
"""Would seem to disqualify both, unless one were using Fire
Marshall Bill logic.""""
And they do.
Other Matt|7.7.08 @ 6:53PM|#
Tym stole my original comment.
I have a BB gun in my car right now. I keep it there to use on
the kid next door who won't quit lighting damn bottle rockets and
throwing them in my yard.
I don't know if I woulda told that.
db, carrying around brass is a felony? LOL.
DC too. Even a "replica", meaning a dummy round or anything that
might look like it, is the same way. This is the result of
"Reasonable Regulation" I guess.
|7.7.08 @ 6:54PM|#
Dave W, I have to agree that it wasn't by accident. They intentionally inserted it in legislation they knew would pass. No accident there.
|7.7.08 @ 7:04PM|#
TrickyVic,
Umm could you please refer to Dave Weigel by something other than
Dave W? Dave W is a musician of some ill repute whereas Dave Weigel
is an author of some ill repute. Quite the difference if I must say
so myself.
Elemenope|7.7.08 @ 7:07PM|#
"You ever been shot? Or stabbed?"
"What?"
"I mean, you're a surgeon, right? They make psychiatrists get
psychoanalyzed. But they don't make a surgeon get cut on. Does that
seem right to you?"
I think it would do wonders to require that every legislator who
seeks to attach prison sentences to any criminal legislation should
spend a week in a maximum security prison. Y'know, just to get a
sense of what they are inflicting on others. I'll even pass up
legislators if I could get a prosecutor or two to do a week of
"educational time".
|7.7.08 @ 7:53PM|#
Firearm or not, the law this guy's being persecuted under is
unconstitutional.
-jcr
|7.7.08 @ 8:42PM|#
DC too. Even a "replica", meaning a dummy round or anything
that might look like it, is the same way.
In-fucking-sane.
So, basically, if a certain kind of object (like a shell casing)
that looks like something some politician saw in some movie or tv
show, which makes them think of violent, scary type things or mean
people or anything else that makes them uncomfortable, is found
near somebody, they uh, they have to go to jail for the protection
of society.
I am not a hateful person usually, but I hate these people.
|7.7.08 @ 8:44PM|#
"Would seem to disqualify both, unless one were using Fire
Marshall Bill logic."
And they do.
And I used to think Fire Marshall Bill was so funny.
Because he was crazy, you see.
|7.8.08 @ 12:35AM|#
Windypundit said: I think what appalls me about this is that a
pellet gun is considered a firearm. Christ, when I was a kid I used
to shoot a pellet gun in my backyard in Chicago. Nobody
cared.
Heck, when I was a kid, no one thought anything of a kid walking
down the highway with a .22 rifle.
dpsc|7.8.08 @ 2:37AM|#
RCSP: You'll shoot your eye out!
Thanks for correcting Steve on that one. It was bugging me like
mites on my sack. On second thought, maybe I need some Quell.
"lawmakers stiffened the Graves Act"- heh heh, lawmakers said
stiffened. Indeed.
Mike Laursen|7.8.08 @ 2:59AM|#
The definition of firearm in NJ includes the
following:
So, does this mean that in New Jersey if you tried to register your
BB gun or get a concealed carry permit for it, they wouldn't laugh
you out of the clerk's office?
dpsc|7.8.08 @ 3:10AM|#
MLSC: So, does this mean that in New Jersey if you tried to
register your BB gun or get a concealed carry permit for it, they
wouldn't laugh you out of the clerk's office?
No, it means they'd charge you and confiscate the weapon. I think
you have to propose owning a squirrel killer to get laughed out of
their offices.
|7.8.08 @ 7:10AM|#
A few years ago, the local prosecutor here was charging people
for carrying toy airsoft guns:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-83673.html
Finally, the state attorney general sent the over-excited
prosecutor a letter telling him to knock it off.
Abdul|7.8.08 @ 7:36AM|#
I went to a sporting goods store in Plymouth township, PA to buy an air rifle for Father's Day (my dad fights a war of attrition with squirrels). The clerk--standing in front of a rack of shotguns and rifles--informed me that Plymouth Township outlawed BB guns because they're too dangerous.
Ron Hardin|7.8.08 @ 8:34AM|#
It's funny until somebody gets their eye shot out. Then it's
still funny, just not around that person.
-- old net saying
|7.8.08 @ 8:41AM|#
"BB guns aren't required to have them, however I believe it is
federal law that all toy guns must either be brightly colored, or
have an orange tip.
This includes all of the ultra-realistic looking airsoft guns,
which shoot plastic pellets."
That Federal law is only for transporting and shipment across state
lines and national borders the airsoft guns, not actual
posession.
|7.8.08 @ 8:57AM|#
If a guy shot a stranger with an unlicensed BB gun, spring action, which only causes a sting, and the other guy responded by picking up a stone and whipping it at the other guy, causing a cracked skull or some broken bones, who spends more time in jail in Jersey?
|7.8.08 @ 9:34AM|#
Worked at a school district once - very rural area. A kid had
checked his traps before driving to school. Didn't think about the
.22 he had in his truck, locked up. Someone saw it - the kid, a
senior, got expelled. I blame it on the lawyers, and in this case,
a cowardly school board, afraid to make an exception.
Hearing about this, I remembered that I, too, had a .22 in my
truck!
geekWithA.45|7.8.08 @ 9:40AM|#
Mr. Weigel:
I'm afraid that you're focusing on the wrong issue. The Graves act
is a secondary issue, the icing on the cake.
The substance of the cake is that New Jersey has intentionally
defined bb and air guns as full house firearms in their statutes
since (IIRC) 1966.
As a result, they are heavily restricted. You cannot buy one in
state without a FID, (which requires a multi-month background
check, including fingerprints), and if a bb handgun, a Pistol
Purchase permit, which also requires a background check. You may
not carry one around in your public, or even in your car (unless
unloaded and securely boxed, separated from ammo, and only while
going directly to or from approved places like ranges and
gunsmiths) without a carry permit, of which only about 600 exist in
a state of 8 million people.
The problem is 40 years of institutional hostility to firearms and
their owners, not the recent continuation and celebration of that
with the Graves act.
Oh, and by the way, both Mr. Graves father, and the poor sap who
sold the bb gun at the garage sale participated in what NJ
statutorily defines unlawful gun transaction: you may not sell any
handgun unless you are an FFL, and have done all the paperwork.
geekwitha.45|7.8.08 @ 9:47AM|#
>>If a BB gun is a "firearm" so is a slingshot.
Oh, which reminds me.
Slingshots are defined as prohibited offensive weapons in
NJ,possession of which is a felony.
This wasn't intentional, however. Well...to the extent that the
result of such a deliberate process can be deemed unintentional,
anyway.
The story behind the criminalization of slingshots is that the rep
who drafted the bill wanted to prohibit slUngshots, (chains or
cords with weights on the end), but someone in the office of
legislative services thought it was a typo and "corrected" it to
slIngshot. This was the version of the bill that was enacted, and
viola! Dennis the Menace: Felon in NJ.
Wacky Hermit|7.8.08 @ 9:50AM|#
I think they need to expand the definition of "firearms" to include people with flames tattooed on their arms, just to take their absurdity to its logical end. Heck, put a BB in a freakin' slingshot and it qualifies as a "firearm" under their definition!
|7.8.08 @ 10:01AM|#
I'll also leave my rubber bands.
Jeez, Hasn't anyone heard of the 2nd amendment?
JohnMc|7.8.08 @ 10:13AM|#
Folks, forget the BB gun for a moment willya!
I want to know how a bicycle cop stops a car going 40mph in a 25
zone. Oh and I would really like to know how they train a bicycle
cop to do a pit maneuver with a Schwinn.
Back to the BB gun. If I were this guy I would call the NRA. They
are looking for edge cases to bolster Heller. This would seem a
classic one to apply.
David Gillies|7.8.08 @ 10:17AM|#
This is insane. You realise you now have stricter controls over
air weapons in New Jersey than in the UK? That's not a benchmark
I'd aspire to.
25-ish years ago, nobody thought anything of two unsupervised
teenaged boys crawling around the Surrey countryside at 2am with a
100,000 candlepower lamp and a suppressed BSA .22LR. You could
whack a bunny at 100 yards in the dark with that thing, and we got
a bounty from the farmer. Then my friend's mother would cook them.
They'd probably send a helicopter gunship up these days.
Rob Sterling|7.8.08 @ 10:45AM|#
I think the Bedazzler might be a firearm under the Jersey
statute:
http://mybedazzler.com/
|7.8.08 @ 11:04AM|#
Q:Why do we pass laws like this?
A:It's what the women want; them and the feminized men. They're
much more concerned with safety & security than with freedom
and anything that goes along with it. After all, "Someone might get
hurt.", and ANYTHING is better than that. So now we've got to live
under "grade school playtime" rules.
We've been jumping through hoops to cater to the women and what
they want ever since they got the vote and where has it gotten us?
They're still not happy. If Hillary were to run, I could almost
justify voting for her. Let a woman try to sort out this feminized
mess.
arbitrary aardvark|7.8.08 @ 11:49AM|#
ARTICLE I RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES
1. All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain
natural and unalienable rights, among which are those of enjoying
and defending life and liberty, of acquiring, possessing, and
protecting property, and of pursuing and obtaining safety and
happiness.
21. This enumeration of rights and privileges shall not be
construed to impair or deny others retained by the people.
|7.8.08 @ 11:52AM|#
Curiously, the only time I've ever been in NJ was to specifically learn and use assorted automatic and crew served weapons. No BB guns though so I guess it was ok.
|7.8.08 @ 12:03PM|#
the only time I've ever been in NJ was to specifically learn
and use assorted automatic and crew served weapons. No BB guns
though so I guess it was ok.
Somewhere on the intertubez, I saw full auto BB guns (including a
gatling gun, if memory serves) for sale. My work filter won't let
me dig them up now, but they looked hella fun.
|7.8.08 @ 12:04PM|#
Bob:
It has NOTHING to do with "the women", as you put it. What it has
to do with is the fascist impulse certain lawmakers have. I'm a
woman and believe me, I think Heller was a damn good decision by 5
members of the Court. The fact that all 9 found an individual right
to keep and bear arms is something worth celebrating.
The Constitution exists to exert control over the Government and
ensure the rights of the People, as the Founders knew that there is
a predisposition for those who seek power to desire control.
The fact that NJ has enacted such asinine laws means that the
people therein have made poor choices in their Representatives to
the Legislature. Of course, given the tilt of the media, they are
probably not as well informed as they should be.
|7.8.08 @ 12:17PM|#
Back in my college days, we used to have a device called a
"funnelator". Basically it was two large rubber bands with a funnel
in the middle, used for propelling water baloons a great
distance.
Guess on those job interviews I will have to admit to comitting a
felony in the future.
|7.8.08 @ 12:59PM|#
Fluffy:
It shall also include, WITHOUT limitation, any firearm which is in
the nature of an air gun, spring gun or pistol or other weapon of a
similar nature in which the propelling force is a spring, ELATIC
BAND, carbon dioxide, compressed or other gas, or vapor, air or
compressed air, or is ignited by compressed air, and ejecting a
bullet or missile smaller than three-eighths of an inch in
diameter, with
sufficient force to INJURE a person.
If I shoot you in the eye with a rubber band,
and we know that smarts, you'll be so grateful the law includes
rubber band powered guns. Man, those NJ legislators knows how to
write laws.
|7.8.08 @ 4:51PM|#
And the NJ lege is preparing to bar possession even of historic
arms. Of course in light of Heller, you've got a right but NJ has
the authority to regulate to the point your right is simply
unattainable.
With few bright spots the rest of the nation isn't far behind. Next
we'll see states barring arms, oops, regulating arms in fear of
losing 'free fed dollars', as has been done w/age of majority
issues.
|7.8.08 @ 7:27PM|#
Q:Why do we pass laws like this?
A:It's what the women want;
Speak for yourself, says this female NRA member who learned to
shoot as a young kid.
It's not the gender. It's the political mindset. Get it
straight.
|7.8.08 @ 8:54PM|#
Kap has the solution. Railguns are powered by magnetic pulses, and aren't covered. I betcha it wouldn't be hard to make a little handgun that could outperform a BB gun; it could even include one of those new hand-crank chargers. Hmmm, anybody want to go halvsies in a little company making and marketing them? ;)
|7.9.08 @ 11:45AM|#
This is just crazy!! When will the people of the Republic of
Jersey wake up and stop these retarded politicians from making
stuff up as they go along.
This is the reason why I will never set foot in Jersey or spend any
money there period!!!
|7.9.08 @ 1:27PM|#
I will compare my defense of the 2nd amendment to anyone's and
agree that too many prosecutors (and police) sometimes massively
misuse their discretion and this is one of those cases, however
what kind of idiot drives around an anti-gun state with a real
looking handgun in full view in his window?
My stepson has become a big fan of the real looking plastic pellet
guns. Upon first seeing one I was shocked how real it looked, which
was a far cry from the look of BB guns of old that I
remember.
I am a former country boy who grew up with guns all around but now
live in an ultra-liberal university community which neighbors a
very high crime rate older city, no doubt a place not unlike a
place in New Jersey with bicycle police.
My first sternly delivered lecture to the stepson was that it was
not a normal toy and to treat it like a real gun and to never ever
walk down the street with it in view. I explained that doing so was
an invitation to be arrested the way the subject in your story was
- at gunpoint - and that explanations would follow. I also
explained that a simple careless arm movement during such an arrest
could result in him being shot.
Apparently the young man, who is old enought to have known better
on his own, received no such common sense instruction from his
father.
|7.9.08 @ 5:35PM|#
somebody do the united states a favor and get a giant sawsall and cut loose that giant cesspool with waves we call a state... it makes pa look bad..
chris|7.9.08 @ 6:12PM|#
sorry there pro freedom, but it is Philly that makes PA look
bad...
this reminds me of Ayoob's story of the lady that got fined like
$5000 each for the 6 hollow points in her revolver in NJ... when
she asked him what she should do, he said "be glad you werent
carrying a 17shot glock"
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245