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Clinton to Dems: "I Want to Be Next in Line When Obama Gets Shot"
Well no, that isn't what she said, but it sure as hell sounded like it:
Hillary Clinton today brought up the assassination of Sen. Robert Kennedy while defending her decision to stay in the race against Barack Obama.
"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it," she said, dismissing calls to drop out.
This comes on the heels of Mike Huckabee's assassination joke, but at least that gaffe felt like an actual joke. Clinton sounds like she's strategizing. And her apology isn't very helpful. After claiming she merely meant that campaigns sometimes drag all the way to June -- as though the nomination process in 1968, a year when it was still possible to enter the race at the convention itself, has much to tell us about the 2008 election -- she apologized to...the Kennedys:
“I regret that if my referencing that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever.
“My view is that we have to look to the past to our leaders who have inspired us, give us a lot to live up to, and I’m honored to hold Senator Kennedy’s seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the Kennedy family,” she said.
Of all the reasons someone might be put off by her remark, the possibility that RFK's family might be offended is not exactly at the top of the list.
|5.23.08 @ 9:45PM|#
And her apology isn't very helpful.
It's not very grammatical either. "I regret that if my remark..."
should either be that or if. I'm sure she means "if", because then
she's not admitting that it was offensive.
|5.23.08 @ 9:56PM|#
Caught in another lie.
Why did she say it? She is an intelligent calculated person that
will do anything to win, including helping John McCain win, which
would allow her to say, "I told you so. Elect me now."
The media tonight are being much too kind.
Hillary Clinton made the same statement about Robert Kennedy's
assassination a few months ago, which further shows her apology was
false. She did not know about Ted's tumor the last time she said
it.
"The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of
Senator Kennedy," she added, referring to Sen. Edward M. Kennedy's
recent diagnosis of a brain tumor. "I regret that if my referencing
that moment of trauma for our entire nation and in particular the
Kennedy family was in any way offensive. I certainly had no
intention of that whatsoever."
Keith Olbermann went through the different times she referred to
Bobby Kennedy. He blasted her tonight, in my opinion, very much
deserved, every word. Actually, I think Keith was still to nice in
his word choices. Check out his site later for the video
clip.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pa85uo1QyGw
Countdown: Special Comment May 23, 2008 Part 2
Part 1
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sny8VfgcjaI
|5.23.08 @ 9:56PM|#
And of course, the media aren't even questioning her "apology"
-- they're so used to the gaffe-apology cycle that they don't even
stop and ask if the two have anything to do with each other.
On the NewsHour, David Brooks was trying to make the excuse that
she's just tired from doing so much talking during the long
campaign. That's BS. Those of us who've worked in a customer
service job 45 hours a week for months on end between vacations
know that you have to always think before you speak to make sure
you don't say the wrong thing and piss off a customer -- whether
it's the week after your vacation or it's been 30 weeks. Are you
telling me that someone running for the highest office in the
country should be held to a lower standard?
Brandybuck|5.23.08 @ 10:11PM|#
For the past 8 years I've heard dozens of complaints about
"Bush-isms", those verbal slips of the tongue he is so infamous
for. Democrat pundits loved to point out those slips as proof that
he was unfit for the job. They did the same thing earlier with
Quayle and Reagan.
If the Democrats believe that verbal mislocution is evidence that
one should not hold office, then why the fsck are they giving
Hillary a pass?!?! Surely it's not the old "double standard"
excuse, because the Dems keep telling me they're too noble to
engage in that. I guess it must be that they're not paying any
attention to Hillary.
p.s. I am **NOT** defending Bush, Quayle or Reagan. Holding the
Democrats to the same standard they demand of Republicans is not
being partisan.
|5.23.08 @ 10:12PM|#
I think she was just offering another one in the string of lame
excuses she gives for staying in the race - June isn't late! - and
she put her foot in her mouth.
Nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear it when you're
running against Barack Obama.
Dirty Laundry Diva|5.23.08 @ 10:13PM|#
Another enlightening yet not so surprising slip of the tongue! Good job Hillary!
|5.23.08 @ 10:15PM|#
Brandybuck, she didn't misspeak at all. There wasn't any
grammatical slip or anything. She said exactly what she was
saying.
This isn't "putting food on your family." She meant this, and it's
perfectly clearly put.
|5.23.08 @ 10:18PM|#
Has anyone heard from Vegas, do the odds of Obama getting shot go up dramatically if Hillary is next in line? Not that I would gamble online or anything.
|5.23.08 @ 10:26PM|#
And here I thought Hillary was consistently trailing Obama because of rampant sexism by the media and the Democratic party.
|5.23.08 @ 10:44PM|#
sad thing is . . . she expressed what many of my friends and
coworkers have said over the past few months . . . white and black
alike. There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether
strange.
However . . . for the Grand Mame to say it is, well, tacky and
downright appalling. Especially when it seems like she is saying "
I cannot wait until the black guy gets shot and I am in first place
again"!
|5.23.08 @ 10:54PM|#
I saw the video from a drudge link...
I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent
examples are Clinton and Bobby.
Nothing to see here carry on.
and Weigel get out of the kool aid she is all ready dead and i
called it when Romney was still in the race....no need for you to
help push.
|5.23.08 @ 10:56PM|#
There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether
strange.
Oh bullshit.
Kolohe|5.23.08 @ 10:58PM|#
I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent
examples are Clinton and Bobby.
Except there are more recent examples than Bobby, right? For
instance, Ted?
|5.23.08 @ 10:58PM|#
joe,
I know you're at least slightly partisan, but it seemed like you
were almost sad that Hillary made that statement (Nobody wants to
hear it when you're running against Barack Obama.) I almost get the
impression you've resigned yourself to the fact that the Dems have
destroyed their chances this year. Me, I'm a little more hopeful
that Obama can win the general against Old Man McCain, but for some
reason I get a sense that you think the Dems, thanks to Hillary,
are doomed.
Jesse Walker|5.23.08 @ 11:00PM|#
There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive.
Yes, quite a bit of it. That's why it's really creepy for
her to be talking like she has a contingency plan for the
event.
Jumbie|5.23.08 @ 11:07PM|#
Judging from the video, this actually seems to be a rare
genuine, non-calculated, mistatement from Hillary that popped out
while she was concentratinfg on making an unrelated point.
The only other alternative is that this was a line delivered by a
helluva smooth actor.
Which I think we can discount, because we know from the crying in
New Hampshire that she's not a good actor.
|5.23.08 @ 11:10PM|#
Well, after hearing that, and only because of that, I do not
want to see her as president.
Fuck that guy.
|5.23.08 @ 11:18PM|#
If she ends up as Vice President, Obama would be a fool to ever precede her down a flight of stairs.
|5.23.08 @ 11:21PM|#
There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive.
Its a combination of the stereotypical/archetypal connection
between messiah and martyr. Since Obama is a messiah, it stirs up
fears he will be a martyr as well.
And also a reflection of the bigotry that coastal elites (who
support Obama) have toward those stupid "clingers" who just want
hop on the O-train.
|5.23.08 @ 11:45PM|#
I think Hillary should just drop out of senate.
I didn't like the comment about RFK. I don't like violence or
confortations, and that comment no matter what the intention was
should
have never came out of her mouth.
I think she should resign.
lower case j|5.23.08 @ 11:47PM|#
Who's more likely to die in his first term in office - the US's first mixed-race president (and I think 5th youngest, behind Grover Cleavland) or it's oldest president?
Syd|5.23.08 @ 11:56PM|#
Joshua Corning | May 23, 2008, 10:54pm | #
I saw the video from a drudge link...
I do not see it. She wants to keep going and the most recent
examples are Clinton and Bobby.
Clinton's the most recent example, but there are others since 1968.
The Democratic nominations of 1972 and 1980 and the Republican of
1976, for example.
|5.24.08 @ 12:00AM|#
"Yes, quite a bit of it. That's why it's really creepy for her
to be talking like she has a contingency plan for the event."
Especially since no such contingency plan is necessary.
I mean, if something should happen, it's not like they're going to
put every convention-goer's name into a big hat and pick someone at
random. There's no need for her to be saying "I GOT DIBS!" She
certainly doesn't need to be aggressively campaigning to take
advantage of a tragedy, and certainly doesn't need to be talking up
MI/FL and comparing that situation to Zimbabwe.
Joshua Corning wrote: "I do not see it. She wants to keep going and
the most recent examples are Clinton and Bobby."
Er, no, Kennedy took it to the convention in 1980.
And 1968 is totally unlike today, so it's not comparable. The
primary season started in *March*, in New Hampshire. RFK only
entered after that. By June, only 17 or so primaries had taken
place. June included big primaries like California that could make
a difference. And Johnson, the incumbent had dropped out.
Today, there are no primaries big enough to make a difference for
Clinton, so the only reason to stay in to June is to lend some
spurious weight to her absurd, hypocritical "count every vote in MI
& FL" scheme, which won't help her anyway.
Honestly, given that she said something similar in March, I have to
think she and Bill have been hoping an assassination would happen
to get rid of the interloper who spoiled her 'inevitability'.
Saddened|5.24.08 @ 12:05AM|#
For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological disorder, consider the abject stupidity of the title and of the commenters. Hillary made a couple of historical comparisons to the Democratic primary lasting until June (Robert Kennedy agrees with her on this.) You idiots accuse her of faking her own tears, of being a man and of being a would-be-murderer. Stupid is as stupid does, America. We get what we deserve.
|5.24.08 @ 12:13AM|#
Legendary libertarian blogger Kip Esquire says that politicians are moral defectives. Not that this was ever in doubt, but the above is just more confirmation
|5.24.08 @ 12:15AM|#
I've had real life Clinton supporters tell me that the reason they were backing her was because it was obvious that Obama would be assassinated and so I should be "smart" and back the candidate who would actually live to make it into office.
|5.24.08 @ 12:26AM|#
You idiots accuse her of faking her own tears, of being a
man and of being a would-be-murderer.
Ah...no, Saddened. No one did any such thing. Not on this thread,
anyway.
Listen, it's o.k. for you to like Clinton. But a lot of others (me
for example) don't.
It does NOT mean that we're sexist, stupid OR that we have a
psychological disorder. It simply means that we don't like her for
president...and missteps such as this one (incidentally the latest
in a long string of them) only confirm that.
|5.24.08 @ 12:33AM|#
I'm actually surprised to find that some are shocked to hear that a lot of people are worried about Obama's security. As a black male, it's certainly crossed my mind more than once and I am under no illusions that Obama is coming to "save me". The fact that he ended up getting his secret service detail at an earlier point in the campaign than any other candidate in history should have been a tip off. You can say all black people are conspiracy theorists (no Rev. Wright jokes, please) but after the murders of Medgar Evers, MLK, the Kennedy's and others who died in the civil rights struggle (not to even mention the contemporary and increasingly naked racial opposition to Obama's campaign) you'll have to forgive a lot of folks (black, white or other) for not being so willing to just overlook Sen. Clinton's remarks.
|5.24.08 @ 12:45AM|#
The thing in my mind is what this says about her ability (or
lack thereof) to function articulately when the pressure is really
on:
"Madame President, the ICBM are cresting the poles...what do we
do?"
"Hominahominahomina..."
|5.24.08 @ 12:59AM|#
" You can say all black people are conspiracy theorists (no Rev.
Wright jokes, please) but after the murders of Medgar Evers, MLK,
the Kennedy's and others who died in the civil rights struggle (not
to even mention the contemporary and increasingly naked racial
opposition to Obama's campaign) you'll have to forgive a lot of
folks (black, white or other) for not being so willing to just
overlook Sen. Clinton's remarks."
Also, the "Muslim" bullshit raises the risk - in addition to nutter
anti-black racists, it creates the possibility that some
unmedicated, Fox-addled nutjob could decide it's his mission from
Jesus to save this 'Christian nation' from Obama, who (he believes)
is a 'Moroccan Candidate' and stealth Muslim terrorist, etc,
etc.
thoreau|5.24.08 @ 1:03AM|#
And somewhere in Los Angeles, Federal Agent Jack Bauer has just received an urgent message from CTU, and he's breaking out the hacksaw and loading the gun to begin another 24 hours of hard work...
|5.24.08 @ 1:06AM|#
Hillary to Bill: "You idiot! What do you mean you forgot to
pardon Sirhan Sirhan? Were you banging the fat chick that day?
Asshole!"
-jcr
|5.24.08 @ 1:09AM|#
For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological
disorder,
Project much?
You're wearing your dog collar a little too tight, sunshine. As
your dominatrix to loosen that for you.
-jcr
|5.24.08 @ 1:14AM|#
Hillary to Bill: "You idiot! What do you mean you forgot to
pardon Sirhan Sirhan? Were you banging the fat chick that day?
Asshole!"
Bill to Hillary: "Don't worry, hon, I got the FALN terrorists I
pardoned on speed dial. Just wait till Puerto Rico."
|5.24.08 @ 1:17AM|#
Shhhh. Anyone else hear the patter of little feet. Perhaps it's the sound of superdelegates finally seeing an opening to declare for Obama.
|5.24.08 @ 1:27AM|#
Olbermann's 'special comment' tonight showed the track record of
Clinton bringing this up, mentioning the assassination a few times,
then changing to just saying Kennedy won California in June a
couple of times, then going back to mentioning assassination.
And, weirdly, toward the beginning as he's ramping up his dudgeon,
there's a loud 'pop' which visibly startles him a little.
Saddened|5.24.08 @ 1:39AM|#
Madpad, are you blind? Nobody has accused Hillary of being a
murderer? What about this comment from John - "Those conspiracy
theories about Vince Foster don't seem so far-fetched now." Then
Jon H fantasizes a conversation between the Clinton's where they
debate on the best way to kill Obama.
My "affection" for Hillary Clinton is beside the point. I argued
that there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman that goes beyond
any legitimate political disagreements (I have many such
disagreements with her myself.)
Obviously, this argument still stands.
|5.24.08 @ 2:59AM|#
So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a
suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a
chance in hell of winning the general election?
Or, if some deranged McCain supporter decides to take out Obama
(while making it look like it was done by a Clinton supporter),
anyone think Clinton would have a chance in hell of winning the
general election?
Wow, talk about screwing yourself over ...
|5.24.08 @ 3:04AM|#
"So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a
suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a
chance in hell of winning the general election?"
Before or after the police take her in for questioning?
|5.24.08 @ 3:11AM|#
I can see the hit pieces now if Obama gets taken down -- playing
this clip over and over, followed by the voiceover -- "McCain --
because he's not a sociopathic assassin ...
I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message.
Paid for by the committee to elect Obama."
|5.24.08 @ 5:10AM|#
Except there are more recent examples than Bobby, right? For
instance, Ted?
Ted ran for president?
And he was still in the primary race during an election year until
June???
When did this happen?
Oh i get it.....you did not actually see the video of Clinton
saying what she said and so have no idea what the fuck you are
talking about....
rechoboam|5.24.08 @ 5:57AM|#
""So, if some deranged Clinton supporter takes this as a
suggestion and takes out Obama, anyone think Clinton would have a
chance in hell of winning the general election?"
Before or after the police take her in for questioning?"
Uh, I think if Clinton were "next in line" that would be the best
life insurance possible for whichever person occupies top spot.
Untermensch|5.24.08 @ 5:59AM|#
When did this happen?
Try 1980 when the nomination wasn't decided until the convention on
12. August, which last time I checked, does come after June.
If you're going to insult people for getting history wrong it
usually helps if you know what you're talking about yourself...
Untermensch|5.24.08 @ 6:00AM|#
By the way, joshua, there is this nifty thing called the "Internet" where you can find out all kinds of facts with minimal effort...
|5.24.08 @ 6:09AM|#
"Uh, I think if Clinton were "next in line" that would be the
best life insurance possible for whichever person occupies top
spot"
Hillary is on record talking about assassinations several times
over two months, and is in a position to benefit. If anything
happens to Obama, she's probably going to get a great deal of
scrutiny from people with badges.
leTerrassier|5.24.08 @ 6:16AM|#
"...there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman..."
Please do not use the term 'psychopathic' unless you know what it
means, and equating it with 'psychological' (by which I suppose you
mean 'psychiatric' or mental illness) disorders is just offensive.
Maybe you do not know the difference between 'psychotic' (suffering
from psychosis- in this case I would guess your getting at the
anti-Hillary crowd being delusional), and 'psychopathic' (being a
psychopath or sociopath who by nature are rarely actually
psychotic). Learn to use words correctly or I will take them
away.
Elemenope|5.24.08 @ 7:15AM|#
So, if some deranged [Clinton/McCain] supporter takes this
as a suggestion and takes out Obama...
There's no need to finish that sentence...every possible correct
answer is simply a synonym for "utter pandemonium follows".
|5.24.08 @ 8:21AM|#
For those who doubt that Hillary-hatred is a psychological disorder
No, I saw it in the DSM-V.* If a person distrusts Hillary
Clinton, there can't possibly be a rational reason.
*Not actually completed, or published yet.
|5.24.08 @ 9:30AM|#
My "affection" for Hillary Clinton is beside the
point.
Actually no, it isn't. It's the only point you have.
For the love of gravy, more than half of the Democrats
don't trust her. Yeah, it's gotta be the VRWC at work.
Saddened|5.24.08 @ 9:48AM|#
joshuacomming - I'm very familiar with Ted Kennedy dragging the
primary out 'till August. Problem is, he ended up losing. Would be
silly of her to bring that up in defense of her continuing her bid.
"Yea, I realize I'm going to lose but it'd be fun to drag it out a
few more months."
To JW - again, any affection I may have for Hillary is completely
beside the point. Mike Huckabee made a poorly conceived joke about
Obama that made a DIRECT connection b/w him and a possible
assassination and people generally didn't see any malice in that. I
can't think of any other American politician who inspires such
loathing (way beyond "distrust.")
and Episiarch - yes, I am Hillary. I often comment on Reason's
message boards.
SIV|5.24.08 @ 9:49AM|#
There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive. This is common and not altogether
strange.
I know a lot of Hillary supporters don't like Obama and say they
will vote for McCain if he is the Democrat Party nominee.Is the
hatred so extreme they are suffering from "Obama Derangement
Syndrome" ? Or is there some "Valerie Solanis Society" terror group
out there?
|5.24.08 @ 10:05AM|#
I can't think of any other American politician who inspires such loathing (way beyond "distrust.")
The Republicans hate her because there is still a lot of
leftover resentment for the Clinton Administration (for reasons
mostly partisan but sometimes legitimate).
Many Democrats dislike/distrust her because they feel her ambition
and not too uncommon (among politicians) sense of (is "entitlement"
the word?) self-importance led her to run a campaign that was far
from unobjectionable. Not that Obama or McCain are beyond reproach
(far from it), but there has been a perceptible aura of nastiness
and disingenuousness emanating from the Clinton campaign
(IMHO).
Elemenope|5.24.08 @ 10:19AM|#
The Democratic Primary Process: it is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.
|5.24.08 @ 10:26AM|#
I argued that there is a psychopathic hatred for this woman
that goes beyond any legitimate political disagreements
That some people's hatred of Hillary is so extreme as to be
irrational doesn't mean that ALL people who dislike Hillary are
stupid or crazy...which is pretty much the point you tried to
make.
Just as you proclaim "Hillary Haters" as crazy, a large number of
feminists lately are proclaiming that "Hillary Haters" are sexist.
I don't deny that some people are misogynistic towards
her. But, in my humble opinion, a larger number are simply turned
off.
Rightly or wrongly, both Clintons have been almost relentless
lightning rods of controversy and derision. And their responses to
many of these episodes has often been fraught with dishonesty and
crassness.
Is it any wonder that a lot of folks just don't want 4 to 8 more
years of that? Sorry, Saddened, but that strikes me as a very
rational, non-sexist thing.
Obama appears to have fewer skeletons in his closet. Add
to that the fact that he has often taken a higher ground on
controversial things compared to Clinton's more scrappy, "let's
appeal to the lowest common denominator" approach (i.e. standard
politics).
LarryA|5.24.08 @ 10:38AM|#
There is a fear/speculation that Obama will never make it to
the Presidency alive.
There is also the possibility Obama could shoot himself in the
foot, actually get nailed by the media, and autodestruct. Given MSM
coverage of earlier Democratic gaffes, however, it would have to be
something truly bizarre.
|5.24.08 @ 10:39AM|#
Thanks, Art-P.O.G....appears we were writing on the same wavelength at the same time. Wonder twin powers...ACTIVATE!
|5.24.08 @ 10:41AM|#
Given MSM coverage of earlier Democratic gaffes, however, it
would have to be something truly bizarre.
Not sure how to read that, LarryA.
|5.24.08 @ 11:03AM|#
There is also the possibility Obama could shoot himself in the foot, actually get nailed by the media, and autodestruct.
Um, yeah. But I will say that there doesn't seem to be much "autodestruct" in his game.
|5.24.08 @ 11:12AM|#
Pray tell me, OBAMA LIFE hasn't had comment's made, he must get alot of hate calls, e-mails, words, you can keep him fairly tale land and try to tell every one all is o.k., however you known your wrong, you have a long way to go with this and i for one has said the same thing, why should this women get out, it's the people choice, if i was Clinton i would go Independent and run like hell with it all...
|5.24.08 @ 11:19AM|#
Um, yeah. But I will say that there doesn't seem to be much
"autodestruct" in his game.
Yeah...he is almost uncanny in his ability to avoid making offhand,
glib remarks that nails him insincere or insensitive.
You know...the kind that Hillary has repeatedly made for the past
17 years.
Some Highlights...
1. "I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had
teas,"
2. "I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not
be a Republican and a Christian."
3. "These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them."
4. "You all remember Mahatma Ghandi. He ran a gas station down in
St. Louis."
5. "We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the
common good."
6. "God bless the America we are trying to create."
7. "I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers.
We are the president."
|5.24.08 @ 11:41AM|#
Anyone who truly believes she meant she is staying in to take over if Obama is assassinated needs to have their meds checked, or go on meds asap.
|5.24.08 @ 11:48AM|#
I guess she means to say that she's staying in because's she's "The Queen of Wishful Thinking"?
ktc2|5.24.08 @ 11:51AM|#
I thought it was just her way of declaring for the VP spot under
Obama.
If he's smart he won't take her, she could off him for the
office.
|5.24.08 @ 11:52AM|#
John David, you greatly misjudge my point.
I think Obama is going to thrash McCain.
That wasn't sadness, just my impression of how Hillary's comment
struck the ear.
Elemenope|5.24.08 @ 11:54AM|#
Well, Jammer, I agree that if it were anyone else it would have
just been read as an idiotic non sequitor, and taken on
that basis as evidence that the one who uttered it was unqualified
for the presidency. But, since it is Hillary, malevolence is
insinuated, which when taken on that basis is evidence...that the
one who uttered it is unqualified for the presidency.
And, FWIW, since Obama's untimely death is perhaps the only way in
which it was likely that Clinton would ascend to become the party
candidate, I can sort of understand the less than charitable
reading of the comment.
|5.24.08 @ 12:05PM|#
Mike P,
I'm actually surprised to find that some are shocked to hear
that a lot of people are worried about Obama's security.
I'm struck by the anger of certain commenters, that anyone (like,
say, the Secret Service) would DARE consider it more likely that
the first black person to be leading a presidential contest would
be in greater danger than other candidates.
Obviously, there must be something wrong with you be think that.
Probably, you just hate white people who don't live near the
ocean.
|5.24.08 @ 12:12PM|#
I've actually been wondering... if the dems have their convention, and Obama picks someone other than Hillary as his veep, and then Obama ends up dying before the election... who would be the democratic candidate? Hillary, who lost the primary? Or that veep candidate that nobody voted for and most people probably haven't even heard of?
|5.24.08 @ 1:20PM|#
I think she was just offering another one in the string of
lame excuses she gives for staying in the race - June isn't late! -
and she put her foot in her mouth.
Wow, chalk one up for the history books: I actually agree with Joe.
I'll even admit I'm something of an irrational Clinton-hater and I
still see this as Joe does.
Between the shorter news cycle, our modern five-minute attention
span(spiritual adviser hates whitey... bygones...), and the
gamesmanship with moving primaries along, this thing really feels
like it's been dragging on forever. Hillary's made a legitimate
point that this is something of a historical anomaly.
As a side note, I'm beginning to think we should go back to the old
ways and let a bunch of insignifcant small states go first so that
the campaign doesn't stretch to two years.
|5.24.08 @ 1:56PM|#
What I can't figure out: She wants something... What is it? It's
not the 2008 nomination, there's no way. If it's an
Obamassassination, then the smart move would have been to concede a
while ago (so as to better step in as a brave champion in our time
of national anguish)
Slate had floated some nonsense about a co-presidency a while back.
(and if that's acceptable why not a triumverate?)
I think she's trying to either set something up for 2012, but I
don't see how sticking around his helping her, or she's trying to
extract some kind of serious concession from the party or Obama
machine. Given the nature of our government, I'm not sure how she
could make sure whatever it was stuck.
Alternatively, maybe the Dems have realized that any publicity is
good publicity and the longer they drag this out, the more Obama's
base will remain fervent enough to actually turn out in november.
Maybe they want to repeatedly remind the Dems in swing states
Florida and Michigan how bad it sucks to be ignored. Is the
"campaign fatigue" even a real issue? Who cares if the voters in
non-battleground New York, California, Illinois, Texas, etc. are
sick of hearing about it?
Jennifer|5.24.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Goddammit, Hillary, buy yourself a dog and name it "Dignity" so
that you'll finally have some. Seriously: if you're reduced to
saying "Well, there's still a chance I can win this race if my
opponent gets assassinated," you need to give it the hell
up while you still have a few pathetic shreds of dignity
remaining to wrap around you.
There are certain thoughts which politicians should NEVER utter,
even if they come to mind. For example: do NOT say to a
well-endowed woman "Whoa, honey, nice tits you got there." Do NOT
say to a well-endowed man "Hey, is that a zucchini in your pocket
or are you just happy to see me?" And do NOT say to ANYBODY "I
still have a chance in hell of winning this race if my opponent
gets assassinated."
Think it if you want, but don't say it. Christ, an Asperger's kid
on acid has better social skills than that.
|5.24.08 @ 2:11PM|#
Art-P.O.G. | May 24, 2008, 2:02pm | #
I was thinking more along the lines of:
"If he dies...he dies."
Jesse Walker|5.24.08 @ 2:14PM|#
yes, I am Hillary. I often comment on Reason's message
boards.
And all this time I thought she was Lonewacko.
Daniel Reeves|5.24.08 @ 2:25PM|#
It would be pretty ironic and relieving if somebody assassinated Clinton.
|5.24.08 @ 2:26PM|#
I was thinking more along the lines of:
"If he dies...he dies."
I got that. But I could imagine Hillary saying other Drago quotes as well.
Jennifer|5.24.08 @ 3:12PM|#
I think she's trying to either set something up for 2012,
but I don't see how sticking around his helping her, or she's
trying to extract some kind of serious concession from the party or
Obama machine. Given the nature of our government, I'm not sure how
she could make sure whatever it was stuck.
I get the impression she's not even "trying" to do anything right
now; she's backed into a corner and just thrashing about,
unthinkingly, at random. Say anything! Throw any punch you can!
Maybe you'll get lucky and hit a bullseye in the dark!
I vaguely remember reading a story on Fark or somewhere about some
loathsome woman arrested for assault; the woman actually took
an infant child and used it to bludgeon her boyfriend. Of
course, she wasn't consciously thinking "I am going to be evil and
use a baby as a blunt object"; she just went batshit crazy and
wasn't thinking at all.
That's the impression I've been getting of Hillary lately. The
question isn't "what the hell is she thinking" but "why the hell
isn't she thinking?"
I really get the impression -- and I'll admit this is subjective on
my part -- that she thinks the presidency is something America
owes her for whatever reason. And Obama is an interloper
stealing what is rightfully hers. So there she is, backed into a
corner by a nation of thieving ingrates, and she can't get away so
she's panicking, flailing her arms about and hoping against hope
that she'll manage to knock out the Head Thief and get back to what
is rightfully hers.
|5.24.08 @ 3:34PM|#
Has anybody explained why Billary is so sure staying in would guarantee her the nomination if Obama were to die? If I were a delegate I'd agitate for going back to square one. I'd want to see the convention actually choose the best candidate like they used to do. And I don't think they ought to nor would choose Billary.
dhex|5.24.08 @ 3:38PM|#
[quote]I can't think of any other American politician who
inspires such loathing[/quote]
current president doesn't count?
back in the end of 2004 i remember seeing a somewhat famous
panhandler on the f train late one night who started his usual
spiel about needing money to get his spaceship back to jupiter (or
whatever) and he ended his pitch with "and i promise i'll take
george w. bush back with me!" the entire car roared with
applause.
then some enterprising/drunk young man said "we could just use the
money to pay a crackhead to murder the motherfucker!" it took a
while for the applause for that to die down.
not that it's unwarranted, mind you. :)
Jennifer|5.24.08 @ 3:39PM|#
Has anybody explained why Billary is so sure staying in
would guarantee her the nomination if Obama were to die?
Because she's convinced the nomination is rightfully hers, and
she'd have it already if not for that interloper Obama.
|5.24.08 @ 3:49PM|#
It appears that Hillary's pulling a Gore: never give up until you have a 0.0% chance of winning. If you're at 0.1% -- if the other person has not officially been nominated, with no ability to appeal the results, and has a non-zero chance of dying -- you keep relentlessly pushing forward. Because, dammit, they OWE you the presidency. How dare those ungrateful voters try to steal it from you!
|5.24.08 @ 3:53PM|#
My dislike for Mrs. Clinton has nothing to do with her gender,
or her husband, or even her political positions (with which I
almost universally disagree, however I don't consider a person's
politics grounds for dislike).
I dislike Clinton because I can't trust her.
Her own history reads like one long rap sheet... Whitewater, cattle
futures, White Hose travel office, FBI files. Coupled with that is
her husband's list of controversies, (not that I'm shifting blame,
but I can't bring myself to believe that she was unaware of ANY of
the numerous scandals).
Secondly, I see her as being unprincipled and power-hungry, for
example, her expanded role as First Lady, or her carpet-bagged
Senate seat.
Furthermore, I can't believe anything that she says. She changes
her position on issues to suit the trend. When she joined the
Senate Armed Services committee, she wanted to be seen as "Tough on
Defence", and repeatedly voted in favor of both Iraq and
Afghanistan. Today, she's promoting herself as a peacenik, strongly
opposed to the war she voted for.
Lastly, her campaign has reeked to me of scheming and tactics,
while being extremely short on priniciple and candor.
The only thing that would make me happier than seeing her fail
miserably in this campaign, would be seeing her thoroughly
disgraced and reduced in stature to the level of outcasts like
ex-Governor Spitzer, or Enron's Skilling & Lay. Even the
thought of this makes me smile.
There is no joy like schadenfreude.
Saddened|5.24.08 @ 4:38PM|#
One thing I gotta say, leTerrassier was right. I said people
have a "psychopathic" hatred of Hillary Clinton; I should have said
"psychotic." I'm not implying any of you are murderers.
Learned something new.
To sum up my argument, I never argued that "ALL" of the people who
oppose Hillary are disturbed/hate women/are irrational, etc. I, for
example, have been against this war from the beginning and am
furious at her for her vote. What I argued was that Hillary made an
innocuous, if badly phrased remark, and Jesse Walker, like many
others, twisted it as if she was encouraging a possible Obama
assassination.
And some of the commentators here - I cited direct examples in my
previous posts - described her as a murderer/man, etc.
So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational about this
kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed at any other
candidate.
It's been fun, ya'all.
Sen. Hillary Clinton.
Mt. Rushmore, SD
(No, not really.)
|5.24.08 @ 4:39PM|#
Clinton to Dems: "I Want to Be Next in Line When Obama Gets
Shot"
Oh, Hillary. If we ever start a line like that, you won't be
second.
|5.24.08 @ 4:46PM|#
So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational about this kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed at any other candidate.
You really ought to look around more. Also, to reiterate, there may be *rational* reasons why Hillary might draw (slightly) more ire than Obama or McCain.
|5.24.08 @ 4:51PM|#
There are certainly people with an irrational hatred of Hillary
Clinton. They tend to veer off into sexist rants at the drop of a
hat.
But that really has nothing to do with thinking that it's in poor
taste to say that maybe your opponent - you know, the black guy who
received so many death threats that the Secret Service took
unprecedented steps to protect him - will be assassinated and
you'll win the nomination.
|5.24.08 @ 4:53PM|#
So I concluded that there is something deeply irrational
about this kind of hatred. I certainly haven't seen this directed
at any other candidate.
Uh, you do realize that Reason's current editor-in-chief
wrote an entire book about how terrible McCain is, right?
|5.24.08 @ 4:56PM|#
I don't even understand why she brings up the 1992 race -- Bill was already way ahead in delegates in May and June, and thanks to the proportional representation scheme there was no way for Jerry Brown or Paul Tsongas to catch up. So Obama is actually in Bill's position, and Hillary is in Jerry Brown's.
|5.24.08 @ 5:43PM|#
The thing people are forgetting is that Obama dying and her continuing to campaign have nothing to do with each other. The primaries are nearly over and the two of them finished in a dead heat. If Obama dies, she's the nominee whether she sits out these last couple races or not. The reason she's still fighting is not because he might be literally assassinated, but the chance he could be politically assassinated. Obama still hasn't gotten any serious media scrutiny. What if this Michelle Obama "whitey" speech rumor turned out true? What if something comes out of Rezko? What if somebody uncovers a racist, Wright like speech that Obama himself gave? What if he make more "white people cling to guns and religion" speeches? The bottom line is that Obama didn't win the votes necessary to secure the nomination. He has to rely on the Superdelegates. And since Superdelegate time doesn't happen till Convention, that means he has to go survive another couple months without screwing up. Hillary would be an idiot to just let him run out the clock. Make him earn it. Use your timeouts.
|5.24.08 @ 6:00PM|#
FDAS,
I don't have a problem with Hillary staying in the race -- heck,
I'm not even a Democrat, why would I care? But that doesn't excuse
this comment.
It would be like a car salesman trying to get a housewife to spend
more than she can afford on a car by saying, "maybe your husband
will die soon and you'll get the life insurance payments." I mean,
it's true that that's possible, but there are some things you just
don't say. Hillary doesn't seem to realize that.
|5.24.08 @ 6:14PM|#
And FDAS, all the scenarios you described involve something
negative happening to Obama or Obama doing something negative. It
almost seems as if Hillary has stopped delivering much in the way
of positive rhetoric and has grown increasingly combative and
acrimonious.
No, I'm not saying Obama's got a halo glowing on his head, but it
seems to me Clinton's been running more of a "Cobra Command" sort
of campaign.
|5.24.08 @ 7:17PM|#
It does NOT mean that we're sexist, stupid OR that we have a
psychological disorder. It simply means that we don't like her for
president...and missteps such as this one (incidentally the latest
in a long string of them) only confirm that.
Oh, come on, now. I don't like Hillary, either, but it's fairly
obvious to me that she was just saying that there's no good reason
to consider the nomination wrapped up by May, that campaigns used
to go right on up to the convention, which weren't coronations but
actual meetings to decide on the nominee. If she was speaking off
the cuff, it would not be surprising for her to remember one of the
more shocking events that she lived through (I was in 9th grade in
June 1968, and believe me, I remember being pretty affected), and
to mention it as illustration of the fact that people could still
be campaigning hard in early June. Heck, Eugene McCarthy, my
candidate that year, kept fighting all the way to the Chicago
convention at the end of August. Maybe that would have been a
better example to cite, and if she'd been delivering a prepared
speech, maybe she should be faulted for not picking it, but fer
crying out loud, the reaction to this shows that people are just
looking for excuses to be offended.
BTW, it never even occurred to me that Hillary was saying anything
about Obama's getting shot. If anything, I'd have thought she was
likening herself, not Obama, to Kennedy.
|5.24.08 @ 8:03PM|#
If she was speaking off the cuff, it would not be surprising
for her to remember one of the more shocking events that she lived
through
Watch the Olbermann video upthread. She's mentioned the '92 and '68
campaign in quick succession several times over the past few
months, with almost identical phrasing. This wasn't an off-the-cuff
thing, it's part of her script.
Now, I don't think she's contemplating the possibility of Obama
getting whacked either -- it's just another
what-the-fuck-is-she-thinking moment. As I said above, a minimum
wage worker at McDonald's would get canned for making a similar
gaffe when speaking to a customer; why should we hold politicians
to lower standards?
|5.24.08 @ 8:07PM|#
I also don't think the current calls for her to step down are related to the month, but rather to the delegate count. As someone mentioned above, the nomination wasn't wrapped up yet in those years because there were still big primaries to be held. That's not the case this year -- the California primary she references as a tipping point was held two months ago.
|5.24.08 @ 8:08PM|#
It would be pretty ironic and relieving if somebody
assassinated Clinton.
That would be a tragedy for our country. If Hillary were
assassinated, who would there be to discredit all the pinko
big-government initiatives she's been pushing?
Without Hillary, we might actually end up with socialized
medicine.
-jcr
|5.24.08 @ 8:11PM|#
I don't think she's contemplating the possibility of Obama
getting whacked either
If it had happened near the beginning of the campaign, she could
have pulled a Jesse Jackson move and tried to capitalize on it. She
might possibly be delusional enough to think that a dead Obama
means that the dems would rally around her, although at this point
they'd be more likely to blame her than the assassin.
-jcr
|5.25.08 @ 1:01AM|#
I've actually been wondering... if the dems have their
convention, and Obama picks someone other than Hillary as his veep,
and then Obama ends up dying before the election... who would be
the democratic candidate? Hillary, who lost the primary? Or that
veep candidate that nobody voted for and most people probably
haven't even heard of?
The last time something like this happened ('72, when Eagleton had
to drop out as the dem VP candidate after a history of clinical
depression and electroshock treatments surfaced), the DNC ratified
McGovern's choice Sargent Shriver as the new VP candidate. I would
imagine something similar is still in the rules - no one
automatically gets moved into the slot.
What might get more interesting is if something happens between the
electoral college vote and inaguration - does the VP elect
automatically step up if neither has taken office yet?
ed|5.25.08 @ 8:46AM|#
I'd be upping Obama's Secret Service detail, just in case.
Hillary is desperate.
Not that she personally would kill him. I assume.
Guy Montag|5.25.08 @ 8:59AM|#
Mrs. Clinton was obviously making a calendar statement, pointing
out that Dem. candidates frequently run past June.
The real bigots and other undesirables are the ones who jump to
some Sen. Obama connection at the mention of a shooting.
Tis the silly season in politics.
|5.25.08 @ 9:03AM|#
The real bigots and other undesirables are the ones who jump to some Sen. Obama connection at the mention of a shooting.
You're right. It's crazy to consider how Hillary might think about Sen. Obama.
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