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The North Carolina/Indiana Primary Thread
A word about exit polls: The early ones suck. I do lots of parsing of the first, post-poll-closing wave of numbers, but they are faulty and they get massaged as the night goes on. I anticipated a closer-than-my-prediction race in Pennsylvania when the early exits had him winning the Philadelphia suburbs, but as the night went on Obama's 16-point lead there vanished. So if, for example, the first exit polls show Obama tying Clinton among west North Carolina whites, assume the data sucks.
Indiana (7 p.m.)
The Democrats.
If Rev. Jeremiah Wright had greeted the new year with a
self-imposed exile to Tibet, or if—even better—he'd turned off the
cameras in Trinity United Church and never recorded himself saying
"God damn America," Barack Obama would be knocking Hillary
Clinton out of the race today. Sure, she would have tried to
stagger on after losing Indiana and North Carolina. As Phil Klein
points out, her "incredible resilience" is mostly a function of the
fact that she's Hillary Clinton and started this race with legions
of delegates in her pocket, one of the biggest fundraising lists on
the planet, and a list of owed favors that approached Santa Claus
naughty-or-nice-list-length.
But if not for Jeremiah Wright, Obama would be crushing her in both primary states. In its widely-circulated post-Super Tuesday spreadsheet of coming delegate fights, Obama's campaign predicted a 7-point win in Indiana. It was even more fertile territory than Wisconsin (they predicted a 7-point win and won by 17) or Virginia (they predicted 2 points and won by 29). It borded Illinois, and voters in the 1st and 8th congressional districts already knew and liked Obama. It was lousy with college towns. It had a small but energized black population that would pad his margin. Obama only needed to win about 40 percent of the white vote to carry the state, and he'd done that in Missouri, a demographically similar state.
Obama is weaker now and will probably lose what he called (in April) a "tiebreaker" state. He won't lose by the 10-point margin of Ohio or 9-point margin of Pennsylvania, because Indiana is more Midwestern than either of those states, and it doesn't touch on the Appalachian Mountains—the single strongest region for Clinton in the entire country. A win wouldn't be impossible, actually, because (as Robert Novak pointed out), Obama could pummel Clinton in the five most vote-rich counties and win, as long as he wasn't totally blown out in the other 87 counties. I think he'll win more than five counties but lose anyway. Clinton 53.5, Obama 46.5, with Clinton netting 5 delegates over Obama.
- Counties to watch: Hamilton, the wealthy, fast-growing county north of Indianapolis. If Clinton's winning easy there, Obama's coalition is coming apart. The Politico suggests that Howard County will be the swing area.
- Demographics to watch: Whites, of course, with a quick glance at the black vote. (The pollsters that show Clinton winning handily show her recovering ground with black voters, but they showed that in Pennsylvania and she lost them by 80 points.) In Pennsylvania Clinton won white Democrats by 30 points. If Obama closes that number to less than 20 points, he wins. If it expands, she wins easily.
- Voters to watch: Republicans. The impact of Rush Limbaugh's campaign (joined by some local hosts) to get Republicans to vote Hillary is really hard to measure, especially now that Obama's image has been damaged by Wright. Republicans went for Obama by 44 points in Wisconsin; they split 50-50 between the candidates in Ohio. (They weren't allowed to vote in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary.) Anecdotal evidence is that the Limbaugh voters are matched by the good-faith Clinton and Obama Republican voters.
- Issue to watch: The gas tax holiday. If exit pollsters ask about it, let's see if the Clinton pander worked.
The Republicans. It's really hard to tell what McCain's margin will be here, as thousands and thousands of Republicans will be bolting their primary to vote for Clinton or Obama. Huckabee, Romney, and Paul are all on the ballot. In 2000, Bush only got 82 percent of the primary vote even though he'd defeated McCain weeks earlier. So I'll guess McCain 78, Paul 10, Others 12.
North Carolina (7:30 p.m.)
I simply don't believe the tightening polls in this state. Not the
ones that show it becoming a toss-up.Todd Beeton, a Hillary-leaning
blogger, points out something in this expectation-setting
post: Southern polls have always underestimated Obama's support
as they underestimate the black vote gap between Obama and Clinton
(they usually peg it at 50 points, and it ends up around 80) and
lowball Obama's white vote. Of course, we haven't had a Southern
primary since Wrightgate, and Clinton has worked North Carolina
harder than any Southern state since Tennessee, which she won
easily. Obama 55, Clinton 44, with a net gain of
around 9 delegates for Obama.
- County to watch: Watuga. John Vaught LaBeaume explains why: It's the kind of rural whites-plus-blacks-plus-college kid county that Obama used to dominate.
- Voters to watch: Independents. They've padded Obama's margin in all of the pre-Wright states. What are they doing now?
- Issue to watch: Jeremiah Wright. Apparently voters were split 50/50 on whether they factored him into their vote. What did whites think?
The Republicans. This could actually get interesting. When John McCain criticized the state GOP for running an ad linking Obama and Wright to the state's Democratic gubernatorial candidates, he won his usual dollop of national praise and pissed off a lot of Republicans back here. McCain 72, Paul 12, Others 16.
Other races to watch: The 3rd and 4th district congressional races in North Carolina, and the 5th district race in Indiana. The former to see if Ron Paul endorsees are winning their elections, the latter to see if the grassroots can purge a well-fed insider Republican.
UPDATE 6:08: The Daily Kos has the only early exits that are ever any good: racial voting. Blacks went against Clinton in both states by about 85 points. That's nightmarish and much worse than in the polls that showed her closing strong--they showed her climbing back into the teens. In North Carolina, this matters. Assuming 33 percent black turnout, the difference between a 70-point loss of the black vote and a 85-point loss is about 4 points overall. She'd have to win about 71 percent of the white vote to overcome that.
UPDATE 7:03: NBC calls Indiana "too early to call," which must mean they have clear exits (or else they'd say "too close"). I'm guessing Obama isn't pulling the votes he needs in the Chicago burbs, which have been bombarded with Wright coverage.
UPDATE 7:06: Early, bullshit exits have Clinton winning by 4 in Indiana as Obama carries everything but the rural south and central parts of the state. I'm sure this'll get massaged.
UPDATE 7:11: On MSNBC, John Kerry is really pushing the "Rush Limbaugh is begging Republicans to vote Hillary" meme. They want to discredit a Hillary win if she takes it by the margin of crossover voters. Indeed, the exits have her winning Republicans.
UPDATE 7:30: North Carolina is called a nanosecond after polls close for Obama. Hey, Mickey Kaus, how's that "Obama by 3 or less" prediction holding up?
UPDATE 7:35: North Carolina exits look good, not great, for Obama. He held but didn't gain among white voters: He'll win about 38 percent of them, his best result outside of Virginia and Georgia. Also -- and expect this to change -- he's winning every region of the state. Landslides in the Research Triangle and Charlotte, single-digit wins everywhere else.
UPDATE 7:55: Basically nothing has been counted in the NC-3 and NC-4 races, but Jones and Lawson won big in early voting. Jones is up by 17 points, Lawson is up by about 40 points.
UPDATE 8:01: Unless northwest Indiana breaks for Clinton, she's not holding the current 14-point lead. Her vote is coming in early: Counties like Vigo, Jefferson and Floyd are counted, while Marion (home of Indianapolis) is 15 percent in and Lake (home of Gary) is completely out.
UPDATE 8:45: Good news from Marc Ambinder:
Campaign advisers are saying that the gas tax pause debate helped him ... though they're not terribly happy that the question wasn't on the exit poll questionnaire
Said one adviser:
"It blunted her appeal with middle and downscale and helped us in the burbs with upper income/college educated voters; it showed why Obama was different than her, which we needed to make people make the leap to vote for us. That didn't happen in PA or OH."
Ha. Also, ha.
UPDATE 8:51: Maybe Paul's biographical links to Pennsylvania made
the difference for him, because he's running third behind Huckabee
in both states. If he's lucky, though, he'll get 80,000 votes from
both states, and cross the 1 million vote mark.
UPDATE 8:54: I don't know why NBC hasn't can't Indiana, as the
crucial counties that needed to swamp for Obama are coming in
rather weak for him. St. Joseph County (with South Bend) by 6
points, for example.
UPDATE 9:04: I just spoke to B.J. Lawson, who is clobbering
Augustus Cho 70-30 with more than 60 percent of the vote counted.
"We're very excited," he says, although he won't declare victory
until Cho concedes. "We're ready to run a positive campaign based
on Constitutional values."
UPDATE 9:15: Hm... Obama altered the Indiana line in his speech. He
added the word "apparent" when congratulating Clinton on her
Indiana win. MSNBC, at least, is eyeing Lake County and calling it
too close to call. (It looks in some ways like Missouri, where
Obama was losing, and several networks called it against him, until
the final precincts of St. Louis came in. The problem for him is
that Gary is not St. Louis.)
UPDATE 9:28: NC-3 is going to take forever to report... all of
those hard-to-reach coastal towns. But Jones is widening his lead
over McLaughlin. Everyone I know thinks Jones has it won.
UPDATE 9:43: Tim Russert is reiterating the "gas tax hurt Clinton"
storyline -- it took the focus off Wright at the 11th hour and
showed voters the non-pandering Obama they liked in the first
place.
UPDATE 9:51: B.J. Lawson wins.
It's a landslide, and a surprisingly big total for a low-turnout
GOP primary.
9:56: I can sense the spin moving away from "split decision" to
"Obama wins." Even if Clinton wins Indiana now, it's within the
margin of Limbaugh-listening spoilers.
10:15: The Daily Kos (yes, I'll link 'em again) begs
Clinton to stay in for two weeks in order to reduce the
embarrassment of Obama's coming West Virginia (May 13) and Kentucky
(May 20) losses. He's on to something. Obama would lose both states
even if Clinton dropped out five minutes ago. The question is
whether Clinton can take Oregon (also May 20) from his column,
something that seems less and less likely as Obama's coalition
refuses to budge.
10:39: Clinton speaks! She claims to have "broken the tie" without
actually declaring an Indiana victory. Because she can't declare it
yet, if she can declare it at all. Sorry if I'm stepping on Ann
Althouse's beat, but my God does Bill Clinton ever look red-faced
and sad, standing behind Clinton. This is the body language of a
mounting defeat.
10:47: With all but 5 (of 17) counties counted, Jones is winning
his primary by 20 points. It's over. The pro-war bloc won't get its
scalp.
|5.6.08 @ 6:03PM|#
"The Republicans. This could actually get interesting.
... McCain 72, Paul 12, Others 16."
Interesting... right...
[sarcasm]
Wait, Paul is still running?
[/sarcasm]
SIV|5.6.08 @ 6:16PM|#
Obama will win Western Carolina whites...in Asheville and Boone. Outside HippieTown "Operation Chaos" will deliver for Hillary
|5.6.08 @ 6:22PM|#
Wow! Edward and Neil keep it up!
I love a good episode of Troll vs. Troll.
*sits down with a bag of popcorn*
John|5.6.08 @ 6:23PM|#
Edward:
My, my,...are you hostile and fullof hate because Obama's mother
named him "Hussein"?
Why the hell is calling him by his name and act of "racism"?
You sound a little fucked up ....
Pottsy|5.6.08 @ 6:24PM|#
Have to agree with Siv on western NC. Too many hippie kids in Asheville, Boone, and Cullowhee. Normally, I'd complain, but since we're talking about trouncing Hillary here...
|5.6.08 @ 6:29PM|#
With all the McCain Republicans voting for Hillary in Indiana (Op Chaos), don't you think Ron Paul will win? Either Ron Paul wins or Op Chaos isn't as big as Rush wants you to think it is. If it was big Ron Paul would win easily. How about some analysis on that possibility instead of discussing crap we already know about.
|5.6.08 @ 6:35PM|#
joe,
I must ask you something. You posted here that you thought the
Obama speech post-Wright did more than get him off the hook, it
gave him extra momentum. This does not appear to be the case any
longer. Thoughts? Insulting the memory of the American public is an
acceptable answer.
|5.6.08 @ 6:35PM|#
But if not for Jeremiah Wright, Obama would be crushing her
in both primary states.
And your evidence for this is that a political campaign put out a
statement a long time before the election that they were
optimistic?
Indiana is a natural Hillary state, like Ohio, Pennsylvania,
Kentucky, and West Virginia. While the Obama campaign may have
predicted a victory there, no one objective looking at the race was
calling it an Obama state. They were either calling it a Hillary
state, or a contested state, when everyone was looking ahead after
Super Tuesday.
Blacks went against Clinton in both states by about 85 points.
That's nightmarish and much worse than in the polls that showed her
closing strong--they showed her climbing back into the teens.
The polls showing a margin of six or less in North Carolina all
have one thing in common: they show Obama winning only 70-something
% of the black vote. I think this is going to prove to be wildly
inaccurate.
Predictions: Indiana Clinton by 2-6.
North Carolina: Obama by at least eight, and probably double
digits.
When all is said and done, Obama's margin of victory today, in both
popular vote and delegates, meets or exceeds Hillary's from
Pennsylvania.
|5.6.08 @ 6:39PM|#
Pro Libertate,
Obama's Philadelphia speech did give him momentum. You can see it
in the tracking polls, starting from the day after the speech and
continuing until recently. Hillary only won Pennsylvania by 9%, a
smaller margin than in Ohio. Pennsylvania is whiter, older, more
rural, and more working-class than Ohio (all the demographics that
have broken towards Hillary throughout the campaign), yet she won
it by a smaller margin.
Wright's little "Pay Attention to Me" Tour brought the issue back
up.
TallDave|5.6.08 @ 6:40PM|#
I just wish this would end, so we can find out where Obama
actually stands on the issues, rather than what he tells people in
the heat of a bitterly (ha!) contested primary.
Clinton really should have conceded months ago. That woman just
doesn't let go, does she? You'd think Obama could buy her off with
the Veep, or something.
TallDave|5.6.08 @ 6:42PM|#
Oh, and Weigel, you're just another shameless tool of Big Democracy. Where's the disclosure?? I bet you even voted, didn't you! Shill!
|5.6.08 @ 6:42PM|#
Whoops, didn't mean to submit yet, Pro Lib.
I also think that "Bittergate" hurt him (and he didn't have the
strong recovery he got from The Speech), and that Hillary has done
a good job of retooling her campaign and adopting a new message and
strategy.
The main reason Obama hasn't put her away is because she is Hillary
Clinton, a titan in the Democratic Party running for the Democratic
nomination.
|5.6.08 @ 6:43PM|#
You'd think Obama could buy her off with the Veep, or
something.
Yikes. Who wants the three of them sitting around the White House,
scheming up ways to shove government on us?
|5.6.08 @ 6:49PM|#
"Operation Chaos" is vastly overstated, Neil.
Only a tiny number of people "do" strategic voting.
|5.6.08 @ 6:50PM|#
joe,
Yeah, Wright didn't do his buddy any favors, did he?
I'm not sure how seriously to take the "bitter" business, but I
suppose it was an additional negative to toss into the mix. You'd
think that Snipergate would've hurt Clinton more, but maybe it's
all getting cloudy with the snipery.
I do not look forward to the general. McCain won't necessarily be
directly on the offensive, but the lots of the rest of the GOP will
be.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 6:51PM|#
Whatever, Joe. Obama still can't close the deal and my gut tells
me he will be blown away and steamrolled tonight.
BTW, Hillary Clinton is going for the nuclear option!!
effay|5.6.08 @ 6:54PM|#
So, where does Hildog go from here if she basically splits another two contests with Obama? That's not momentum in my opinion at a point when she needs to be gaining back ground in leaps.
Pottsy|5.6.08 @ 6:57PM|#
So, where does Hildog go from here...
If the race in Indiana is as tight as is predicted, I'm expecting
the bitching and moaning about Florida and Michigan to go full
throttle starting tomorrow at 8 a.m.
Michael B Sullivan|5.6.08 @ 6:57PM|#
Pro Libertate: Regarding the sniper story versus the bitter
thing, I think that people hold Obama to a higher standard than
Clinton. And, even though I'm more or less an Obama supporter, I
think that that's fair. Obama's campaigning on the premise that his
is a new way of doing politics, one that's more civilized, fairer,
and ethical, and that he's respectful of those he disagrees with
and will unify the country. Clinton's campaign is, frankly, not
about her honesty. It's about her technocratic competence.
So Clinton is hurt relatively little by blatantly lying. Obama is
hurt relatively more by showing disdain for people. Fair
enough.
|5.6.08 @ 6:58PM|#
So, where does Hildog go from here if she basically splits
another two contests with Obama? That's not momentum in my opinion
at a point when she needs to be gaining back ground in
leaps.
No matter what happens tonight, Hillary will stay in. Next week is
West Virginia which she'll win by a lot, and the week after is
Kentucky, which she'll win by a lot. She'd still be able to claim
some kind of momentum.
|5.6.08 @ 6:59PM|#
Pro Lib,
joe,
Yeah, Wright didn't do his buddy any favors, did he?
The conspiracy theory is that Wright deliberately went over the
top, so Obama could have a Sistah Souljah moment. An argument for
this theory is the observation from people in a position to know
that Wright never used to be this crazy. He's got a record going
back decades.
I still don't buy it. I think the old man (Wright this time, not
McCane) is showing early signs of dementia - he's gotten grouchier
and crazier. He should have gone into a well-deserved retirement
and salvaged his dignity. I have to wonder if he has anyone around
him who can tell him things like that.
|5.6.08 @ 7:02PM|#
QUestion: Why is it that when most people I see speaking about this election make it about black or white, female or male? Who is afraid of change in this country? Whomever is afraid of change is only afraid of the unknown. I ask myself two things about these candidates, Who will make a difference for our country, we all forget we seem to be floundering here. And NO I am not talking to you upper-Middle class or very rich americans I mean look deep in your thoughts and think who this gas price really hurts. Can you fill up your SUV still? I am talking about Obama, and you can tell me if I am dead wrong, but give me one reason to vote for him. Cant come up with one on my own - North Carolina
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 7:02PM|#
He should have gone into a well-deserved retirement and salvaged his dignity.
Not to mention he could have been known as the preacher to the
(potential) President. Think of the speaking fees.
|5.6.08 @ 7:07PM|#
effay,
So, where does Hildog go from here if she basically splits
another two contests with Obama?
If Obama wins 50% of the remaining elected delegates, he needs only
22% of the remaining superdelegates to win.
She needs to seriously outperform him from here on out to even have
a plausible case for the superdelegates.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 7:10PM|#
Remember, all you folks not planning on voting for Mre. Clinton,
remember Eight Bells.
Eight Bells
Eight Bells
Eight Bells
|5.6.08 @ 7:10PM|#
"My, my,...are you hostile and fullof hate because Obama's
mother named him "Hussein"?"
For me, it's not that it is racist, it's that it is so incredibly
stupid. So there is this bad guy in the world named "Hussein." And
there is this other guy running for office who has that name as his
middle name. So the idea is that people will see the latter and
equate it, fantastically, with the bad guy. I mean, yes, of course
regular Republican voters are that fucking stupid, but who else
is?
It's like not fucking a hot girl with the first name "Hillary"
because HRC shares the name. What kind of moron thinks that way?
It's an appeal to the lowest denominator in politics I can imagine
(hey, that guy has a funny name that is the same as a bad
man's!).
On interesting matters, does anybody not see this being a HRC win
in Indie and a Obama win in NC? I don't.
Orange Line Special|5.6.08 @ 7:10PM|#
Obama's campaigning on the premise that his is a new way of
doing politics, one that's more civilized, fairer, and ethical, and
that he's respectful of those he disagrees with and will unify the
country.
And, I find that extremely galling. I mean, with all those dumb
people out there who actually buy that, why can't I find something
to sell them?
I'd suggest that Hill would be the best choice for libertarians,
but there aren't enough of them to make a difference.
As for Obama, hopefully it won't be long before those who go to his
rallies start seeing these fliers I made.
Over 300 visitors to that page in the past day, including from
RCP.
|5.6.08 @ 7:11PM|#
Neil, you didn't really just post 0%-reporting results five
minutes after the polls closed, did you?
I know you didn't just do that. Because that would be immensely
silly. Suggestive of someone who doesn't know very much about
politics, even.
|5.6.08 @ 7:13PM|#
What about The Nuclear Option, Joe? What might that
be?
I think Hillary Clinton is very close to the point of diminishing
returns with negative campaigning. She risks a serious backlash if
she pushes it too much further.
Not to mention, she's put together a solid positive campaign
message lately.
|5.6.08 @ 7:14PM|#
John,
I think he's angry and bitter because drawing attention to
someone's ethnic background as a means of harming his reputation is
repellent to decent human beings.
|5.6.08 @ 7:15PM|#
"I ask myself two things about these candidates, Who will make a
difference for our country, we all forget we seem to be floundering
here."
Is that Likudian anon or some generic anonymous poster?
I think the only issue I care about is SCOTUS appointments. And I
think HRC or Obama would be way better than any GOP. I actually
like Scalia and Thomas, but I can think of several decisions
they've made lately that are wack (The religion cases, the Bong
Hits case, the "police can do anything case", the Executive can do
anything cases in the WOT), and I can't think of many Breyer has
(except on affirmative action, on which I think he is incredibly
wrong).
|5.6.08 @ 7:17PM|#
The exits show Obama winning independents with 53% and Hillary winning Republicans with 53%. Indies were 23% of the votes and Repubs were 11%. I don't think Op Chaos is going to play a very significant role.
|5.6.08 @ 7:17PM|#
You would think that Wright would've lain low to get to be the next Billy Graham. Guess he's more cranky than ambitious these days.
|5.6.08 @ 7:19PM|#
Hey they're saying "too early to call" not too CLOSE=blowout
for Clinton.
No, that is not what "Too early to call" means.
It means that she is expected to win, and says nothing about the
margin.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 7:19PM|#
For me, it's not that it is racist, it's that it is so incredibly stupid.
That's about the size of it. Hussein is a pretty common name in the
Muslim world, as evidenced by the (unrelated) King of Jordan.
effay|5.6.08 @ 7:20PM|#
"If the race in Indiana is as tight as is predicted, I'm
expecting the bitching and moaning about Florida and Michigan to go
full throttle starting tomorrow at 8 a.m."
I agree. Getting some sort of credit for Florida and Michigan is
really the only way that Hildog can win at this point (and has been
for a while). I suspect the Clintons are working hard behind the
scenes to this end.
|5.6.08 @ 7:20PM|#
Pro Lib,
Wright doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the government.
No, really! This guy told me. He seems to see it as the
enemy.
He's an ambitious man, but apparently, his ambitions lay
elsewhere.
David Weigel|5.6.08 @ 7:21PM|#
You stated that Lou Dobbs supports mass deportations, but
that's not his position. Would you care to issue a
retraction?
Oooooh yeah, LoneWacko. That'll destroy him!
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 7:23PM|#
from lonewacko's flyer:
[Sen Obama,] [w]ill you be investigating this foreign meddling
in our internal politics?
You know, for a group that considers themselves the modern heirs of
the Minutemen, I find it funny that you all are hatin' on
foreign meddling.
Tsu Dho Nihm|5.6.08 @ 7:24PM|#
Wright doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the
government.
If that's true, then I really like Reverend Wright!
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 7:25PM|#
DW,
Who are you quoting? Or is my "find" function broken and it only
finds "Dobbs" in your 7:21 pm post?
|5.6.08 @ 7:27PM|#
Wait a second, Dave: did you mean that Obama was winning black voters WITH 85% (85-15) or BY 85% (92.5%-7.5%?)
|5.6.08 @ 7:27PM|#
Baked
It's supposed to be triple scary:
1. It's a common MUSLIM name (and we know they are strange and bad,
right?)
2. It's the same name that a KNOWN BAD MAN has (and therefore
anyone else with it must be bad as well, right?)
3. It's an unusual name (and people that are different are bad,
right?)
Don't get me wrong, Obama's crazy name was one of the reasons why
early on I thought he would be a shitty candidate (hey, only a fool
would vote against a person because of the person's given name, but
fools make up a signficant minority of US voters [luckily they tend
to vote Republican, but not all of 'em do]). The Dems got greedy
for something they did not have locked up (they thought after 2006
the presidency was theirs and saw a chance to insert their dream
candidate [a minority or woman]). Of course, campaigns matter, and
they picked two poor campaigners and polarizing candidates and
interestingly enough the "stupid party" fell ass backwards in the
right direction and picked the best candidate they possibly could
have (McCain).
Other than his SCOTUS picks, I like a McCain presidency. The guy
has real integrity. He reminds me of my parents Senator, John
Warner, a real statesman...
|5.6.08 @ 7:29PM|#
Hey, look at that, when you click your mouse on the little red
words, it takes you to a page that answers my question.
That is SO COOL, Dave. How did you do that?
*blush*
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 7:29PM|#
Tsu Dho Nihm
I've seen this about 15 times before I finally got it. Thought it
looked odd though, with both (apparently) Chinese and Vietnamese
names.
|5.6.08 @ 7:29PM|#
Any news on Republican Exit Poll figures yet? I could give 2 shits about the socialists. Oh wait that would include McCain too.
|5.6.08 @ 7:30PM|#
MNG,
Having watched Obama come from 70 points back against a popular
ex-president's wife, to being the frontrunner for the nomination,
how can describe him as a "bad campaigner?"
Dude's been doing something right.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 7:33PM|#
Dang, BP I really didn't get it until you said something. I was always misreading it as a ver of "You're so dim."
Neil|5.6.08 @ 7:34PM|#
Joe a red state Democrat would be doing MUCH better against
McCain right now than either of the two losers.
Mike Easley would be ahead 10 by now.
|5.6.08 @ 7:36PM|#
"I could give 2 shits about the socialists. Oh wait that would
include McCain too."
Ok, I'll bite...How would McCain be more of a socialist than any
other Republican Senator? Supposedly the guy has a great record on
government spending. He's backed a more market based health care
proposal than the public demands. So WTF? You guys with your
"socialist" epithets...
"Unless I'm one of those guys with saliva dribbling out of his
mouth who wanders into a cafeteria with a shopping bag screaming
about socialism." Annie Hall
|5.6.08 @ 7:37PM|#
Obama isn't winning Marion County (Indianapolis) by even 10 points so far. That's bad for him.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 7:38PM|#
MNG - I agree with your analysis, except for McCain having
integrity. I'd say he has courage, but I have to assume
your either don't read or don't agree with anything Matt Welch has
written about the man.
Kolohe - it's pretty clever. Props to the anonymous.
|5.6.08 @ 7:40PM|#
"Having watched Obama come from 70 points back against a popular
ex-president's wife, to being the frontrunner for the nomination,
how can describe him as a "bad campaigner?""
joe-He's a media darling. Has been ever since "the speech." There
are a lot of elite liberals who would like to see a black man
President. It's like an orgasmic dream for some of them. He has
monolithic black support (as any black candidate this side of Al
Sharpton would). His race protects him from flak that any other
candidate would get. And he's running against a candidate that many
in her own party think is far too polarizing to have a chance to
win in November.
So I'm not suprised by his rise.
Nor his fall for that matter...
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 7:41PM|#
Jerry is in trouble for dissing anybody who had a pony as a
kid.
Kramer owes Jerry finner for not decorating with levels.
|5.6.08 @ 7:42PM|#
His race protects him from flak that any other candidate
would get.
Eh? I don't think he's been protected from much of anything,
especially over the past few weeks.
|5.6.08 @ 7:43PM|#
MNG,
Since you're not surpised by his rise, should I assume that you
were predicting it in December and January?
|5.6.08 @ 7:44PM|#
His race protects him from flak that any other candidate
would get.
Uh, yeah, running for president as a black man is a easy. That's
why you keep talking about what a dumb move it is to nominate a
black guy.
And why the parties have always fallen all over themselves to get a
black guy to be their standard bearer.
Huh?
|5.6.08 @ 7:46PM|#
Baked
I think I may agree with you and perhaps made a semantic
mistake.
I liked how he stood up to Bush on the torture thing when every GOP
official pretty much performed fellatio on Bush at the time.
I liked that he hammered Rumsfeld when pretty much every GOP
elected official at the time was arguing that "we are winning it's
just he media..."
The fact (discovered here from Welch) that he has such a good
record on earmarks is something that is amazingly endearing to
me.
He took a couple stand during Bush's ascendancy which showed
something, courage, integrity, whatever it was it was something
sorely lacking in the GOP at the time...
He's clearly not a religious nut (which seperates him from about
70% of prominent Republicans) and is a real war hero. I like the
guy.
|5.6.08 @ 7:47PM|#
Obama's now at a 20% lead in Marion County (Indianapolis), with Lake County (Gary) not in at all. Still too early to say what's going on.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 7:49PM|#
Joe your party does best with red state Dems. They're your
winners. (Gore doesn't count because his home state was really
Washington, DC).
Even I would be scared to death of a Mike Easley/Harold Ford Jr.
ticket.
|5.6.08 @ 7:50PM|#
So, after Wright 1, Wright 2, Bittergate, and all the wailing
and gnashing of teeth, Barack Obama is doing better among white
voters - in a former Confederate state - than in all but 2 of the
contests to date.
Still no Indiana call.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 7:51PM|#
Well, it looks like it's going to be another 1-1 draw
today.
So, the current 1915-ish stalemate is sustained.
Clinton will win WV next week, which will finally giving her some
unmitigated momentum for the first time since NH. And the following
week, we'll see a repeat of the 1-1 split w/ KY going for Clinton,
and OR going for Obama - so back to a stalemate.
And we head into June with Obama getting victories in Montana and
South Dakota - not before the Puerto Rico primary.
I look for a similar situation in PR as in Guam, a 50-50 split.
Some have give Clinton an advantage due to her 'hispanic' #'s but I
think it's misleading - when your 'minority' is an overwhelming
majority, the normal 'racial' patterns don't matter, because all
socio-economic demographics are represented. (see also HI vs
California for the 'asian' vote - although the 'home town' factor
was the overriding factor in Hawaii.)
So, it's going to be an interesting summer.
|5.6.08 @ 7:51PM|#
Joe your party does best with red state Dems.
I don't think anyone is going to argue with you.
John Edwards would be picking out his outfit for the inauguration
right now.
|5.6.08 @ 7:52PM|#
He's backed a market based health proposal? Its called the
"Guarunteed Access Plan." Read between the lines. You get a tax
credit and are forced to select an insurance company report back to
the federal government of your choice. Will insurance companies be
mandated to offer plans within the constrains of the tax
credit?
His tax policy is weak. He won't agree to not raise taxes
especially on the so-called rich. Anytime to force someone to do
something or you take their money to give it to someone else its
socialistic.
Eliminate the IRS and I'd take back what I said about McCain being
a Socialist. But I think you'll see when he gets in office the real
McCain will kick in.
|5.6.08 @ 7:52PM|#
"Since you're not surpised by his rise, should I assume that you
were predicting it in December and January?"
Remember all the fuss after the "speech?" WTF was that about? I
knew the guy would do well. Here was this first term senator who
had not exactly won the toughest contest in the world to get his
seat and he is offered a prime time speaking slot (can you say
tokenism?). He does well. But what the hell was that attention
about? I'm not sure I thought he would take the frontrunner
position like he did, but he was certainly a darling of a lot of
influential folks coming in, and that never hurts.
"And why the parties have always fallen all over themselves to get
a black guy to be their standard bearer."
joe, you remember the Colin Powell bullshit? Both parties would
love to run the first AA who could win. I mean love it. In fact,
they would even provide a ton of support and money to a black
candidate who, if white with the same level of experience and
electoral success, would never get such support.
|5.6.08 @ 7:54PM|#
MNG,
I don't see how you could watch Obama's speech at the 2004
convention, and think "They just picked that guy because he's
black."
They picked him because he is best speaker any of us have ever
seen. You can't see that?
Neil|5.6.08 @ 7:55PM|#
John Edwards isnt very well liked down here though even among Democrats. The bit-city liberals, Kos Kids and national DNC people love him, but the NC Dem party can't stand the guy. Theres a reason he didnt run for re-election in 2004 even though he could have.
Orange Line Special|5.6.08 @ 7:55PM|#
David Weigel writes: Oooooh yeah, LoneWacko. That'll destroy
him!
I don't know whether that's the real Weigel or not, but in either
case I'm not surprised that he can't understand how that question
would work.
First, I nice-d it up: I'd just come right out and call him a
liar.
But, even in it's nicer form it would help show how Obama is a
liar. And, since it would be on video, it would show up on at least
one TV show. Hint: it gets over a million viewers.
I wonder: do they put prospective libertarians on a box and kick
them out of the movement if it takes less than a half an hour for
them to get out of it?
|5.6.08 @ 7:58PM|#
joe
He's a great, great speaker. Truly great.
But face it, a fair amount of politicians are excellent speakers.
Shit, Jerry Brown was as good of a speaker, and much better of
script.
If Obama were white he would never, ever have got the slot, or half
the money he raised, or half the media attention (nor half the
black vote he has). You can't see that?
"Color" me "not impressed" with his wins in Southern states where
blacks make up 30% or more of the Democratic primary voters.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:01PM|#
Joe I agree with MNG give me a break of course he wins the southern states with big black populations.
|5.6.08 @ 8:02PM|#
Neil | May 6, 2008, 7:55pm | #
John Edwards isnt very well liked down here though even among
Democrats.
Neil, do you remember the phrase "bank-shot pander?"
It refered to how the Bush campaign put as many black faces as they
could on the stage at the convention, and had a "black people love
us!" page on their web site, and whatnot. The goal was never to win
the votes of black people - that is impossible for Republicans -
but to convince skittish white suburban swing voters that it was
safe to vote for the Republican.
Edwards would work the same way. You are right, he would probably
lose every southern state, just like any other Dem. Maybe pick up
VA, LA, AR, or FL if he had big nationwide margin, but probably
not.
But his southern - that is, not northeastern or West Coast or upper
midwest - background would swing people in western and lower
midwestern states.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 8:03PM|#
Well, I'm not Weigel (but I was once pimply faced, and am
getting increasingly pudgy) (I keed, I keed!), but I also don't
understand how that question would work (to bring down the Obama
candidacy, that is).
So, we have all these associations with various people that are
plaguing Obama, but a tiff with Lou fuckin' Dobbs is supposed to
destroy him? Really?
I think someone kicked the box while you were still in it.
|5.6.08 @ 8:04PM|#
Still no call in Indiana.
I guess there are a lot of strong Obama precincts that haven't
reported.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:06PM|#
Joe if that were true Al Gore shouldve won big because he had a
southern accent but no real love in his "home" state (which he
wasn't even born in or grew up in).
Edwards was very stupid not to stay in NC politics be a solid
centrist-conservative Democrat and THEN run for President instead
of start running for President the day he was elected to the
Senate.
Instead he did that and also became a fake left-wing liberal
populist.
|5.6.08 @ 8:07PM|#
So far, Ron Paul is getting 8% in IN and 6% in NC. Still probably too soon to make a judgment on that though.
|5.6.08 @ 8:07PM|#
If Obama were white he would never, ever have got the slot,
or half the money he raised, or half the media attention (nor half
the black vote he has). You can't see that?
Let's not rewrite history here.
He was losing the black vote by a large margin to Hillary a month
before Iowa. He moved into the top tier of the race because he
campaigned effectively enough to win lily-white Iowa. It was only
after that that he started leading among black voters.
|5.6.08 @ 8:08PM|#
Al Gore had a southern accent?
I never noticed.
Now, John Edwards: THAT GUY has a southern accent.
|5.6.08 @ 8:09PM|#
"Edwards was very stupid not to stay in NC politics be a solid
centrist-conservative Democrat and THEN run for President instead
of start running for President the day he was elected to the
Senate."
Shit, neil is right again...
|5.6.08 @ 8:10PM|#
Heh, they're calling the idea that Clinton is overperforming because of bad-faith crossover Republican votes "the Chaos Theory" on MSNBC.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:10PM|#
I bet you Obama didnt even come close to winning the white vote in NC, or even the white male vote.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 8:11PM|#
...do they put prospective libertarians on a box and kick them out of the movement if it takes less than a half an hour for them to get out of it?
Of course not, Lonewacko. We're all CorporateConspirators who pay
IllegalMexicans to remove the boxes for us. That reminds me, I have
to ask FelipeCalderon where my check is...
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:12PM|#
Edwards has an accent that yankees think is "southern". The
backwoods mountain accent.
Gore had a low-country accent softened by a few years of elite
private school sure, but it was there.
|5.6.08 @ 8:12PM|#
"He was losing the black vote by a large margin to Hillary a
month before Iowa."
Joe, that is incredible. Did you EVER believe that "I'm torn
between Obama and Hillary" coy bullshit from black voters (I
remember the hilarious interviews on NPR with such voters at the
time)? I'll say straight up I never did. That's just naive,
brother!
|5.6.08 @ 8:15PM|#
I bet you Obama didnt even come close to winning the white
vote in NC, or even the white male vote.
He lost whites by a good margin, but won males and females.
Wait, how does that work?
|5.6.08 @ 8:20PM|#
Neil,
I bet you Obama didnt even come close to winning the white vote
in NC, or even the white male vote.
Dude, read the blog post.
The exits show him winning 38% of the white vote in NC. That's his
third-highest total to date. It's better than his average before
the Wright story broke.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 8:21PM|#
Adamness
33% of the elecorate is black, which went for Obama +90%.
Or am I missing a joke?
|5.6.08 @ 8:22PM|#
MNG,
Did you EVER believe that "I'm torn between Obama and Hillary"
coy bullshit from black voters (I remember the hilarious interviews
on NPR with such voters at the time)?
I think they believed that a black candidate would be unable to win
white votes, and after watching him win Iowa and then place in New
Hampshire, they changed their minds about that.
|5.6.08 @ 8:23PM|#
Neil | May 6, 2008, 8:20pm | #
Why dont they just call IN for Clinton?
Heartburn, Neil?
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 8:24PM|#
The exits show him winning 38% of the white vote in NC.
That's his third-highest total to date. It's better than his
average before the Wright story broke.
That doesn't seem right. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to
have gone on that 10-12 game winning streak. Do you mean 3rd
highest to date 'in the south?'
|5.6.08 @ 8:25PM|#
Or am I missing a joke?
No, it just hurts my brain with all the group breakdowns and
winning one group over another, but losing another group, with some
groups overlapping.
|5.6.08 @ 8:26PM|#
joe
NPR had all these reports about how "torn" the black vote was in
SC, and black political pundits talked about how "contested" that
bloc was.
I hate to quote neil but: LOL!
What % of the black vote did Obama "pull out" from his "great
campaigning" there? You're a smart guy, do you think that kind of
turn-around from shear campaigning is statistically possible? Those
interviews were naive and the interviewees were being coy. But only
the most blind idealism could have taken that seriously. And THAT
is what is wrong with the Dems this year...
|5.6.08 @ 8:26PM|#
Im not worried, she will still win big.
I'm not sure. Most of her areas are already in, and she has a 10%
lead with it. A few of his counties are still at 0%. She'll win,
but I don't know if it will be 'big.'
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:28PM|#
Its all about white, working class voters. And he cant win them. And the Chicago media market has really focused on Wright hes going to underpreform there.
Brandybuck|5.6.08 @ 8:28PM|#
How long until Loo Rokkwell says Weigel is an Evil™ Cosmotarian®
for only predicting a 10% Ron Paul result?
p.s. Two years ago any libertarian would have dreamed of 10%, but
now a 10% is considered proof of conspiracy by the Kochtopoid
Reason to keep us down. Damn you Weigel! Damn you!
|5.6.08 @ 8:29PM|#
"The exits show him winning 38% of the white vote in NC."
Jesus joe, we both lean Democratic. Do you think the Dems can
possibly win in Nov. with a candidate who can boast of getting 38%
of the white vote in any state? White people are still about 80% of
the electorate!
|5.6.08 @ 8:35PM|#
MNG,
What % of the black vote did Obama "pull out" from his "great
campaigning" there?
Virtually all of it.
Had he not been a good enough campaigner to win Iowa, those black
voters would have continued to believe that a black candidate could
not win white votes, and wouldn't have voted for him.
I suppose Iowans only voted for him because he's black, too?
|5.6.08 @ 8:36PM|#
John King on CNN
When they nominated John Kerry many of the elites in the party in
the South and Midwest wrung their hands because he was too
liberal.
No shit. The Dems don't want to win the Presidency. Greedy...
|5.6.08 @ 8:38PM|#
MNG,
Do you think the Dems can possibly win in Nov. with a candidate
who can boast of getting 38% of the white vote in any
state?
Certainly. Most primary voters whose candidate doesn't win go on to
vote their party in the general. It's always been that way - most
Dean voters voted for Kerry, most Bradley voters voted for Gore,
most Gephardt voters voted for Dukakis. The fact that the
primary-voter splits are a little different this year doesn't
change that.
|5.6.08 @ 8:40PM|#
Lawson is crushing his opponent. Either he did a terrific job
getting the word out about his platform, or Dondero endorsed his
opponent.
Either way, I'm glad to see him doing so well.
-jcr
|5.6.08 @ 8:40PM|#
Most primary voters whose candidate doesn't win go on to
vote their party in the general.
Half of Clinton voters said they'd either vote for McCain or not
vote at all.
|5.6.08 @ 8:41PM|#
"I suppose Iowans only voted for him because he's black,
too?"
Uhh, yeah, to a degree. He has attracted a great elite organization
and does well in caucuses. And they magnify the influence of people
who have a zealous attraction to their candidate (Obama supporters,
who see themselves making history). But in addition, what better
way to make a point about how tolerant and progressive a state that
is seen as a hayseed state. It wasn't a popular vote in Iowa.
"Eggheads and African-Americans" as Begalia says ain't a winning
coalition (what he ignores is that HRC ain't gonna get much
better)
|5.6.08 @ 8:43PM|#
" most Dean voters voted for Kerry, most Bradley voters voted
for Gore, most Gephardt voters voted for Dukakis"
Yeah, and those three did so very well...
Joe, you're falling victim to your own Mondalization theory...The
guy SHOULD be a winning candidate, but he aint.
|5.6.08 @ 8:45PM|#
Adamness,
Actually, it's between 1/4 and 1/3.
And that's in line with every other contested primary. No way
Bradley voters are going to vote for Gore after that nasty
campaign!
2004 was even worse. Dean voters were seriously pissed off at John
Kerry.
And right now, every Hillary voter in America realizes that her
only chance to win the campaign is for Barack Obama to look
unelectable.
Primary voters get over it, and vote for the party. Always.
|5.6.08 @ 8:47PM|#
I think I have a good read on how much to listen to you,
MNG.
Barack Obama won Iowa - Iowa! - because he's black.
Race panic, MNG. You're falling for it.
|5.6.08 @ 8:48PM|#
Not so, Joe:
To Clinton voters: Would you support Obama in November?
Indiana: Yes- 48%, Vote for McCain- 33%, No vote- 17%
North Carolina: Yes- 45%, Vote for McCain- 38%, No vote- 12%
To Obama voters: Would you support Clinton in November?
Indiana: Yes- 59%, Vote for McCain- 21%, No vote- 17%
North Carolina: Yes- 70%, No vote- 14%, McCain 12%
http://thepage.time.com/preliminary-exit-polls-from-cnn-2/
|5.6.08 @ 8:49PM|#
Yeah, and those three did so very well...
On topic, they did extremely well among people who voted against
them in the primary. Which is, you know, what you asked.
And, of course, 2008 isn't 1988, or 2000, or even 2004. The
Democrats could win with a dead fish this year. Even a scary black
one.
|5.6.08 @ 8:50PM|#
Looks an awful lot like 1/4-1/3 to me, Adamness.
21% 38% 33%.
What's "not so?" It's a lot closer to 1/3 than 1/2.
|5.6.08 @ 8:51PM|#
Joe
I'm sure the PRIMARY voters will for the most part get over it and
support the candidate.
My issue with Obama is that the kind of person who votes in the
primary is very different than the kind of person who votes in the
general election. And I really doubt his appeal there.
I doubted Obama for a long time. I came to think he might actually
be a good candidate after looking at the fact that he was bringing
in more first time voters than HRC. My opinion was: both are
terrible, terrible choices (both turn off a great many voters that
a more experienced white candidate with less baggage would). But I
thought between the two Obama might actually be better.
But the Wright thing woke me up. For a lot of very valid historical
reasons the black community in America just has some really weird
fucking beliefs that are guaranteed to turn off mainstream white
America. No black politican who has had to rely on black votes for
his or her rise is going to be free of such influence.
Oh, and the guy has little track record of electoral success at any
impressive level. And he has a funny name. He's not a good
candidate.
|5.6.08 @ 8:53PM|#
Still no call in Indiana.
Her lead is down to 8.
His best counties still aren't in.
He's peforming better than Pennsylvania.
As for Operation Chaos, Republicans in Indiana split almost exactly
like the overall vote.
Bad night for Republicans.
|5.6.08 @ 8:54PM|#
Indiana: Yes- 48%, Vote for McCain- 33%, No vote-
17%
33+17=50
So 50% of Hillary supporters in Indiana will not vote for Obama.
38% in NC. Even if it is 1/4-1/3, that's pretty bad. I don't know
if he could win with 1/4-1/3 of his base taken away.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 8:54PM|#
Adamness Id like t believe that but my part had almost identical numbers for Bush/McCain in 2000.
|5.6.08 @ 8:56PM|#
Joe
With all respect, THIS is "what I asked"
Do you think the Dems can possibly win in Nov. with a candidate who
can boast of getting 38% of the white vote in any state?
I don't give a shit if people in the primary who voted against
Obama will vote for him in Nov. What I care about (because I want
to see the next two SCOTUS appoinments come from a Democrat) is
whether people in the GENERAL ELECTION vote for the guy.
Let's face it, the only time since Nixon the Dems have won THAT
election is when they picked the Southern white guy who ran to the
right of his party.
The mixed race guy with the Islamic name running to the left of his
party is not that. For us liberals it would be a wonderful world if
this nation were bigger than that, but this is reality and we
should not fall to the "Mondalization" effect you have so smartly
described among the GOP here in the past.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 8:57PM|#
Campaign advisers are saying that the gas tax pause debate
helped him ... though they're not terribly happy that the question
wasn't on the exit poll questionnaire
I'm kinda surprised that they're 'not terribly happy.'
Say what you want about the tenets of a Gas Tax Holiday, at least
it's an issue.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 8:58PM|#
whoops misread the double negative.
I thought the question *was* on the questionnaire, to the dismay of
the Obama campaign.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 9:00PM|#
John C Randolph - where are you getting the Lawson v Cho results? I can't find crap on it anywhere.
|5.6.08 @ 9:00PM|#
Adamness,
Yes, you are correct, 38% is his third-best result among whites IN
THE SOUTH, not overall.
Which should answer the Reverend Wright question. It's not even
moving white southern men.
The effect of Wright-gate in the fall is going to be to increase
the Republican base's motivation (which is no small matter in and
of itself, especially this year, with a "RINO" running), but it's
not changing votes.
Hillary and Obama performed roughly the same among different
demographics before and after that story broke.
|5.6.08 @ 9:03PM|#
Neil,
Down to 6 in Indiana.
She's still going to win, and we knew that weeks ago. The open
question is the margin.
Six, and dropping.
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:04PM|#
Looks like a good night for libertarian Republicans. Lawson wins in North Carolina.
|5.6.08 @ 9:04PM|#
Joe
I hope you are right. It will be very hard to not have Obama as the
candidate (who here wants to be the person to tell black america,
after so many decades of being screwed, that though the black guy
won a majority of delegates under the rules as they were at the
time that he is not "really" the winner?). I hope he can pull it
off.
He's smart. He's a great speaker. He's being unfairly targeted. He
would be (well, only on the SCOTUS thing) better for America than
McCain.
But, he gives a potential voter, one who admittedly does not think
much like you or me probably, a LOT of reasons to note vote for
him. Another candidate, in such a Democratic leaning year, would
have been a better choice. You don't think so?
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:05PM|#
Lawson was just endorsed by the Log Cabin Clubs. Wonder if that was the decisive factor?
|5.6.08 @ 9:06PM|#
MNG,
Let's face it, the only time since Nixon the Dems have won THAT
election is when they picked the Southern white guy who ran to the
right of his party.
And if it was 1972, 1984, or 1992, you'd be right.
But it's not. It's 2006 +2. The electorate looks vastly
different.
Maybe there are other candidates who would do better in the general
election - in a year so favorable to the Democrats, they don't have
to thread the needle to squeak out a victory.
And for all the slicing and dicing of the demographics we do
beforehand, these two candidates still have to get in the ring and
face off. And Barack Obama is a much more talented politician than
John McCain.
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:06PM|#
Most important news aside from Lawson's win, for libertarians
today regarding the elections is that McCain pledged to nominate
"Alito/Roberts like PROPERTY RIGHTS Kelo decision overturning
Justices to the Supreme Court." He made this announcement in a
speech in Wake Forest, NC.
Also, wants justices who will overturn Affirmative Action and
secure Gun Rights.
That's three solid libertarian issues in McCain's favor.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 9:06PM|#
Never mind - I found it. That's great that Lawson's going to win. If a few other "Paul Republicans" get elected, Congress will suck that much less.
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:07PM|#
Not sure Lawson is a "Paul Republican." His support came from
socially moderate Republicans like the Log Cabin Clubs.
Are you saying Paul backed him, as well?
|5.6.08 @ 9:08PM|#
He still just cant close the deal can he?
I think everyone realized on February 5 that this wasn't going to
be a "close the deal" primary. Both of the candidates are too
strong, and have reliable bases that are too large, for either of
them to go the way of Edwards, Huckabee, or Romney.
|5.6.08 @ 9:09PM|#
...which makes it very possible that he's going to have to put Hillary on the ticket.
Icl|5.6.08 @ 9:10PM|#
Obama won big among college graduates in both states. This means that Hillary took the uneducated vote, plus brainwashed-by-Limbaugh vote(Neil).
|5.6.08 @ 9:10PM|#
So what's NC going to end up at? Presumably it's not going to stay at 20+ for Obama.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:12PM|#
What? The NYT lied to us? How is Mr. Obama clobbering Mrs.
clinton by 42% of the NC vote? They were just telling us the other
morning that Mr. Obama's lead had dwindled to less than 10%. Not
expressing surprise at the outcome. Actually, not expressing true
surprise at the slant either.
Shouldn't Mrs. Clinton be leading by a lot more in Indiana?
|5.6.08 @ 9:12PM|#
"Maybe there are other candidates who would do better in the
general election - in a year so favorable to the Democrats, they
don't have to thread the needle to squeak out a victory."
Jesus joe I hope you are right! My position has just been: why fuck
with victory like this? I really am worried that this is the very
overconfidence that will get us the 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th years
of Republican Executive rule. IMHO it seems like a crazy attitude
for a party out of power for so long...Take what we can get and
call it a day!
"And Barack Obama is a much more talented politician than John
McCain."
Yeah, Obama has had so much proven electoral success at the big
time level and McCain has not. WTF joe? C'mon, this is
Mondalization if I've ever seen it!
|5.6.08 @ 9:13PM|#
Ah, so DONDEROOOOOOOOOOOO!'s pimping McCain now?
Damn. I knew I should've used pencil for this scorecard.
Ali|5.6.08 @ 9:13PM|#
Eric- How's your buddy the new mayor of London doing? Libertarian he is, right?
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:15PM|#
No, just acknowledging that McCain is coming out for Property
Rights. That's a positive. Shouldn't be viewed as a negative as
some libertarians like to think.
Wonder if we'll see Obama talking of repealing Kelo?
Eric Dondero|5.6.08 @ 9:16PM|#
Yes, as a matter of fact, the new Mayor of London is a "libertarian" Ali. Thanks for mentioning that. A major win for the libertarian movement, particularly for Pro-Defense libertarians and anti-Political Correctness libertarians.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 9:16PM|#
Obama pretty much conceded IN to Clinton in his speech, GE-Universal notwithstanding.
BakedPenguin|5.6.08 @ 9:19PM|#
Donderooooo!!: From ChoForCongress.com:
I support the Federal Marriage Amendment
It is opposed by my opponent (Lawson)
It is opposed by the Libertarian Party
Iraq
I support the mission of our troops--victory in Iraq.
My opponent supports immediate combat troop withdrawal.
The Libertarian Party supports immediate combat troop withdrawal.
Federal Criminalization of Drugs
I support the federal criminalization of drugs
It is opposed by my opponent
It is opposed by the Libertarian Party
Patriot Act
I support this legislation which is necessary to fight terrorism.
It is opposed by my opponent
It is opposed by the Libertarian Party
Protect America Act
I support this act as a key tool in preventing terrorist attacks upon our homeland.
It is opposed by my opponent
It is opposed by the Libertarian Party
Foreign Policy
I support the United States involvement in world affairs for the benefit of national security and the peace and security of the world.
My opponent advocates a "non-interventionist" foreign policy.
The Libertarian Party supports a "non-interventionist" foreign policy.
REAL ID Act
I support the REAL ID act as a way to fight illegal immigration.
Opposed by my opponent
Opposed by the Libertarian Party
Military Commissions Act of 2006
I support this legislation, and believe that enemy combatants should not receive the same treatment as U.S. citizens.
My opponent opposed this legislation which was enacted to insure that terrorist detainees were tried by military tribunals, not in civilian courts.
The Libertarian Party also opposd this legislation.
America, "Imperialist?"
I believe American foreign policy, while not perfect, has done a great deal of good in the world, and that words like "empire" and "imperialist" should only be reserved to describe regimes who truly annex land and subjugate other peoples.
My opponent characterizes American foreign policy as maintaining a "global empire".
The Libertarian Party calls American foreign policy "imperialist adventures."
Illegal Immigration
I believe that sanctions on employers who hire illegal aliens is at the root of a comprehensive strategy to deal with the problem of illegal immigration.
My opponent refuses to endorse sanctions on employers who hire illegal immigrants.
So does the Libertarian Party.
(emphasis added to show difference between Lawson and conventional
Republicans)
Can you tell me if any of those positions are substantially
different from Paul's (other than the Federal Marriage thing, which
would account for the LCR support)? Lawson's website was done by
the same people as Paul's was.
Colin|5.6.08 @ 9:19PM|#
The new mayor of London is a lot more libertarian than the old one. That's for certain.
|5.6.08 @ 9:19PM|#
Wonder if we'll see Obama talking of repealing
Kelo?
I'd say he would, since the Dems are anti-corporation.
|5.6.08 @ 9:21PM|#
Mistah Niceguy,
The people liked him, and her. That's who they picked. Whaddyagonna
do?
Yeah, Obama has had so much proven electoral success at the big
time level and McCain has not. WTF joe? C'mon, this is
Mondalization if I've ever seen it!
Um...yeah, Walter Mondale. How many elections did he win before
getting the nomination? Let's see, Vice President, Senator (two or
three times, I think)...
John McCain is the Mondale in this election. Obama is the Bill
Clinton, the George Bush, the John F. Kennedy. He's got enough
electoral experience to know how to beat Hillary Clinton in a party
she "owns."
|5.6.08 @ 9:21PM|#
lolz
Libertarian Republican Publisher Eric Dondero vindicated on Rudy
Giuliani support by Cato Institute VP David Boaz
Written by ericdondero on May-2-08 7:44am
Ali|5.6.08 @ 9:22PM|#
Yes, as a matter of fact, the new Mayor of London is a
"libertarian" Ali. Thanks for mentioning that. A major win for the
libertarian movement, particularly for Pro-Defense libertarians and
anti-Political Correctness libertarians.
Eric- He's anti-war, especially in Iraq, you know. Tsk, tsk.
|5.6.08 @ 9:22PM|#
both turn off a great many voters that a more experienced
white candidate with less baggage would
Why Joe, you racist pig.
You seriously think that Fluffy the Ambulance-Chasing Trial Lawyer
would be a better candidate?
-jcr
|5.6.08 @ 9:23PM|#
You can't repeal a court decision.
Now, the Military Commissions Act - that's something you can
repeal.
|5.6.08 @ 9:23PM|#
You can always tell who is a "Ron Paul Republican" by them using terra eclipse as their web designers.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:23PM|#
If Sen. Obama wants lower food prices, how about voting against the "farm bill"? Same with oil prices? ANWR Sir, the thing to endorse is ANWAR.
|5.6.08 @ 9:26PM|#
That quote, Mr. Randolph, was written by Mr. Nice Guy.
You seriously think that Fluffy the Ambulance-Chasing Trial
Lawyer would be a better candidate?
In some ways. Even Edwards doesn't have Obama's rhetorical
skills.
|5.6.08 @ 9:27PM|#
And Bush and Kennedy won only by getting electoral votes from
suspicious states. Right?
I liked the baseball analogies better, though I think the current
crop of candidates bears more resemblance to the Royals, Nationals,
and Giants than the Red Sox, Indians, and Rockies.
|5.6.08 @ 9:28PM|#
You know Bill Clinton never won a majority of the popular
vote, right?
Yup. Strong third-party challenger both times he ran.
|5.6.08 @ 9:28PM|#
Four percent in Indiana.
Gary still not reporting in. I still don't think he could win, but
a loss by less than 4 pts isn't the end of the world.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:29PM|#
(suspending joe rule)
You can't repeal a court decision.
New legeslation can "repeal" a court decision of that type, just
like the Budget Reform and Impoundment Control Act of 1974
"reversed" a Supreme Court decision.
|5.6.08 @ 9:29PM|#
And in 1960, 1992, 1996, and 2000, the electorate was more
evenly divided between the parties, right?
Uhhhhhhhh...so what?
Plant Immigration Rights Suppo|5.6.08 @ 9:29PM|#
So this Others person is running on BOTH tthe Republican and Democratic ticket? Is Others trying to get the LP nod too?
♪|5.6.08 @ 9:29PM|#
Eric Dondero | May 6, 2008, 9:07pm | #
Not sure Lawson is a "Paul Republican."
Woohoo!
|5.6.08 @ 9:30PM|#
Hillary is getting closer in NC. Now she's "only" 16 points back
with 45% counted.
My 2nd fave thing about Obama is when he's smashing Hillary. My
fave thing about him is that he opposed the war from he start. I
can't really thing of any other fave things about him...
The last few percent counted in Indiana show the liar's lead
shrinking to 4%.
|5.6.08 @ 9:30PM|#
You can reverse a Supreme Court decision, by passing a law that
renders it obsolete.
Sure, Guy.
Pottsy|5.6.08 @ 9:31PM|#
Rick Barton, you could try putting his position on government transparency on that favorites list if you like...
|5.6.08 @ 9:32PM|#
...Shoulda been: "I can't really *think* of any other fave things about Obama..."
|5.6.08 @ 9:33PM|#
Rick,
I can't really thing of any other fave things about
him...
He sponsored a bill in Illinois requiring the police to videotape
the interrogations and confessions of murder suspects, then talked
the Chicago PD, the Mayor of Chicago, and the Republicans into
supporting it.
I like that things like that are a priority for him, and I like
that he can actually get them passed.
|5.6.08 @ 9:34PM|#
You can reverse a Supreme Court decision, by passing a law
that renders it obsolete.
42 states and many cities passed legislation limiting or
disallowing eminent domain to be used like it was in New London,
CT.
|5.6.08 @ 9:34PM|#
"The people liked him, and her. That's who they picked.
Whaddyagonna do?"
Well, my point is that "the people" when defined as "Democratic
primary voters" have not had a great track record in the past 30
years, if ya like seeing Dems elected President....
"Obama is the Bill Clinton, the George Bush, the John F.
Kennedy."
I don't see it. Bill had a fair amount of electoral vetting (how
many state-wide elections had he won?). GWB was at least a two time
winner of state-wide election (and in one of the largest states in
the nation). JFK was a US Rep for years and then a two-term
Senator.
Obama-serving in his first term in the Senate, after his main
opponent blew up...
Joe, I could beat Alan Keyes. And I have a drinking problem that I
make little effort to hide ;)
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:38PM|#
And Bush and Kennedy won only by getting
electoral votes from suspicious states. Right?
Fixed.
joe, I gave you a perfectly good example, try looking up it's
history, also look up the ways to counter a Supreme Court
decision.
(restoring joe rule, why I bother I do not know)
On the Obama speech:
WTF? Driving by the "shuttered steel mills in South Chicago" HUH?
The envirowackos were screaming to have them closed like crazy in
the 6os and 70s when I lived up there. Now his folks got their way
and he is crying about it?
|5.6.08 @ 9:39PM|#
joe,
Of course I meant the bill in Illinois requiring the police to
videotape the interrogations and confessions is quite
commendable.
|5.6.08 @ 9:39PM|#
Now his folks got their way and he is crying about
it?
I'm surprised you seem so surprised.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:41PM|#
Adamness,
I should not have bothered, sorry that you did too. In 2 weeks
something like this will come up and he will say that he destroyed
our facts with his logic.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:46PM|#
UPDATE 9:28: NC-3 is going to take forever to report... all
of those hard-to-reach coastal towns. But Jones is widening his
lead over McLaughlin. Everyone I know thinks Jones has it
won.
Do they send in the votes on stone tablets by rowboat or
something?
|5.6.08 @ 9:46PM|#
Guy, what the hell are you talking about?
Is "You can reverse a Supreme Court decision, by passing a law that
renders it obsolete." some kind of impenetrable code to people like
you?
You seem to be getting dumber, and that's quite a feat.
|5.6.08 @ 9:50PM|#
I, on the other hand, am doing pretty well.
Looks like I'm going to go 3 for 3.
Predictions: Indiana Clinton by 2-6.
North Carolina: Obama by at least eight, and probably double
digits.
When all is said and done, Obama's margin of victory today, in both
popular vote and delegates, meets or exceeds Hillary's from
Pennsylvania.
I need to stop wimping out and saying "double digits" for Obama. I
did it in South Carolina, and he won by almost 30. I did it
tonight, and it's about 20.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:51PM|#
I'm surprised you seem so surprised.
Actually, I was, briefly. Then I realized who was talking about
it.
|5.6.08 @ 9:54PM|#
"You seem to be getting dumber, and that's quite a feat."
OK, finally Joe and I agree. Guy Montag getting any dumber would be
quite impressive.
|5.6.08 @ 9:58PM|#
joe? By all accounts I'm seeing Obama by 7 (or 14, depending on your choice of vernacular).
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 9:59PM|#
No, joe, the comment: May 6, 2008, 9:23pm | #
You can't repeal a court decision.
Now, the Military Commissions Act - that's something you can
repeal."
Was perfectly clear, plain and wrong, other than the MCA bit.
Your whole later quote:
May 6, 2008, 9:30pm : You can reverse a Supreme Court decision,
by passing a law that renders it obsolete.
Sure, Guy.
Is plain as day too, joe.
In the same thread you are reversing your stupid sayings and
claiming to be right at the same time?
Talk about dumber.
effay|5.6.08 @ 10:00PM|#
Hey guys, I don't know too much about this Lawson guy (didn't know he existed until 2 days ago). Is he a legit good guy here that isn't just talking the talk? Where would yall put him in a spectrum; say with between Paul and Flake...others (Libertarians maybe) that could help me draw a quick and dirty comparision?
Mr. Chartreuse|5.6.08 @ 10:07PM|#
Congrats to Lawson. Nice to see someone who is pro-civil liberties and anti-interventionist win in a GOP primary.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 10:07PM|#
Op Chaos will stop B. Hussein from taking IN.
Op Chaos will keep this going to Denver. Come on Op Chaos!
Syd|5.6.08 @ 10:14PM|#
Sidney is going to lose in November. That'll teach him for misspelling his middle name!
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:17PM|#
Tim Russert is reiterating the "gas tax hurt Clinton"
storyline -- it took the focus off Wright at the 11th hour and
showed voters the non-pandering Obama they liked in the first
place.
FWIW, I think Russert's basically correct, at least as it pertains
to IN.
I'm sorta surprised that the 'gas tax' thing didn't help Clinton
more in NC. She and Bill seemed much more in their zone talking
'issues' in their front porch campaign stops in places like
Roxboro.
I wonder if writing off the black vote (no pun intended), by not
doing such stops in predominately black neighborhoods/sides of
town, esp by Bill, fatally weakened her. Keeping the black vote in
the 80's would have made the overall NC victory single digits,
which would have been good enough leverage in her current
strategy.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:19PM|#
No explaining needed joe. You were wrong, backed up with being
wrong and a smartass, then pretended to be correct by truncating
your own quote.
Can't even take your lumps like an adult, you just do it like a 3rd
grader whose mommie is not around to make you act civil.
|5.6.08 @ 10:21PM|#
Neil,
For weeks now, superdelegates have been switching to Obama, or
declaring for Obama, because of concern that an extended primary
would, as Rush Limbaugh has been saying, harm the party.
And tonight, if Hillary wins by less than 2-3% in Indiana, the news
reports are going to be that Hillary only won because of Rush
Limbaugh listeners, and that Obama really won.
Which probably isn't true, since there just aren't that many people
who actually go out and vote strategically like that.
But it's certainly starting to look possible that "Operation Chaos"
is going to end up changing the media narrative about today's
contests from "Split decision" to "Obama sweep."
So, on behalf of Democrats and Obama supporters everywhere: Thank
You. Thank you for helping to wrap this up.
|5.6.08 @ 10:22PM|#
Also, Obama's win in NC eliminates and popular vote advantage Hillary got by winning PA. I believe that even if Florida is included in the popular vote, Obama will be leading.
|5.6.08 @ 10:22PM|#
Obama-serving in his first term in the Senate, after his
main opponent blew up...
I don't have a dog in this fight, but keep in mind that Hillary has
won a total of two elections against similarly pathetic Republican
opponents in a deep blue state. McCain has won many more, but the
first few times he was running in a heavily Republican state, and
since then he's had all the advantages of incumbency.
Basically, none of the frontrunners have had an astonishing amount
of electoral success.
effay|5.6.08 @ 10:24PM|#
Kolohe, I agree. It was almost like Hildog was trying to prove
that she could win without getting a single black vote in a state
like NC. If they even paid any attention to the blacks there, they
probably would have done better and they wouldn't have to hear
about how Obama got 90+% of this demographic.
Aside: What good is a Dem candidate who specializes in getting the
black vote in the South? Just sayin...
|5.6.08 @ 10:25PM|#
Piss off, Montag. There are more important things going on than
your not being able to read.
I'm sorta surprised that the 'gas tax' thing didn't help
Clinton more in NC.
Obama came out right away, framing that proposal as a political
pander, and it worked. Once again, just like he did in the More
Perfect Union speech, Obama bet that the American people were not,
in fact, easily-manipulated morons, but could actually understand
an issue like adults, and engage their brains before their jerking
knees.
And once again, he was right.
|5.6.08 @ 10:28PM|#
"MNG,
LOL, wow, just wow."
Guy, I wouldn't be too impressed with people realizing you are
really, really fucking dumb. It's like folks realizing that the
earth orbits the sun. No bigee.
Authoritarians like yourself are unfortunately easily predictable.
If you made an unpredictable statement, one that showed
intellectual integrity, now that would be news.
But, the grown ups are talking now, hush. Worry not, those
undeserving folks you hate WILL GET THEIRS one way or the other.
Now go to sleep.
|5.6.08 @ 10:28PM|#
Once again, just like he did in the More Perfect Union
speech, Obama bet that the American people were not, in fact,
easily-manipulated morons, but could actually understand an issue
like adults, and engage their brains before their jerking
knees.
We'll see if he contradicts that belief at a closed door fundraiser
on the West Coast next week.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 10:28PM|#
Hes still lost Joe. He still lost even if you get Lake. Not
enough black voters there. Its a split decision.
And hes going to get clobbered when this thing moves on to WV, KY,
and PR.
Ali|5.6.08 @ 10:29PM|#
From link offered by Dave, Kos said:
If Clinton were to drop out this week, we'd face an
uncomfortable situation in West Virginia, with Clinton likely
crushing Obama. That would look terrible for the presumptive
nominee.
Better than that would be to garner enough superdelegate
commitments this week, so that Oregon can push Obama past 2,024.
That way, it isn't the supers who clinch it for Obama, but actual
voters.
Would someone who understand the math explain why Clinton staying
in the race would less of an embarrassment for the dems? When kos
says "we", who does he mean by that, Obama or Clinton?
John|5.6.08 @ 10:33PM|#
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but Lake County not reporting its results is damn suspicious.
|5.6.08 @ 10:34PM|#
Ali,
It would be less embarrassing for Obama to lose to a candidate who
is still in the race than to one who has dropped out.
Neil,
Its a split decision. Really? Is that your prediction for
how this is going to be reported in the press?
How'd your last prediction work out, chief?
And, once again, thank you. Thank you so very much. Absent all the
yammering about "Operation Chaos," a close Clinton win in Indiana
would still have been reported as a victory.
Not no more.
|5.6.08 @ 10:34PM|#
Ali,
It would be like McCain losing a state to Huckabee if Hillary won
two in a row after she dropped out. It was bad enough and
a big enough story for McCain that Paul and Huckabee got a
significant chuck of the vote in PA, so imagine if he or Obama lost
a state without any real opponent.
I think the 'we' is Democrats in general, that the presumptive and
unopposed nominee would lose two states in a row.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:34PM|#
MNG,
Disagreeing with you and joe does not make one an
Authoritarian.
Now, go have your little cry with your girl joe, k? Since you can't
read what he wrote in plain English, nor what anybody else here
writes either, I can see why you must call others "dumb".
Doesn't your little self validation trip of yours ever exit the
fog?
Neil|5.6.08 @ 10:35PM|#
What do you think of a probable Obama loss in WV and KY with no real opponent? LOL!
|5.6.08 @ 10:36PM|#
I'm no conspiracy theorist, but Lake County not reporting
its results is damn suspicious.
Tsk! Are you suggesting that they are holding back their vote
totals to prevent Hillary from being able to give a victory speech
early enough that somebody might actually watch it?
No, that's crazy. That's totally not what happening. It's
just...uh...great, John, now you've made them lose count!
Sigh. One. Two. Three...
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:37PM|#
Ooops, missed the funny. Mr. Nice Guy "ordered" the "Authoritarian" to go to sleep, lol.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:39PM|#
This speech by Hillary will be important to counter the 'Obama wins' spin trend. (granted I'm watching MSNBC, but based on that 9:56 update, I guess the rest of the networks are doing the same)
|5.6.08 @ 10:39PM|#
Neil | May 6, 2008, 10:35pm | #
What do you think of a probable Obama loss in WV and KY with no
real opponent? LOL!
I think that you're looking for something else to talk about,
because tonight went so badly for you.
|5.6.08 @ 10:40PM|#
It's going to look pretty damn silly for Hillary to give a victory speech now, only to see Obama win it in an hour or two.
|5.6.08 @ 10:41PM|#
And this from Ben Smith:
We're all watching Lake, but in a race that could be thisclose
scroll your pointer on south from Lake Michigan to that Obama
county sitting like an island in southern Indiana.
That is Monroe County, home of Bloomington and Indiana
University.
Obama is up 66-34 now, but, but, but only 43% of the vote is
in.
In other words, over half of the vote in the state's biggest
college town -- an Obama stronghold -- has yet to even be
counted.
Neil|5.6.08 @ 10:41PM|#
Im feeling great Joe because the best Democrat Party Primary EVAR continues!
|5.6.08 @ 10:42PM|#
Hillary, the socialist, warmonger, and slimy politician
candidate is now behind by 14 points in NC with 86% counted.
Obliterate Hillary!
|5.6.08 @ 10:44PM|#
What do you think of a probable Obama loss in WV and KY with
no real opponent?LOL!
LOL Clinton is staying in Joe!
So it's bad for Obama if Clinton exits the race, and bad for him if
she stays in the race.
What if she dies, Neil? That would really kill him, huh? But you
know what would be worse? If she didn't die.
LOL, Neil. I'm having a great night, and I really appreciate all
the work you people have done to make it happen.
guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:44PM|#
What was that? Mrs. Clinton says she needs more money?
Remember Eight Bells, remember Eight Bells . . .
|5.6.08 @ 10:45PM|#
"She claims to have "broken the tie"..."
What does that even mean? What tie? The Indiana primary? It's not
decided yet. The whole dem primary? She's fallen even further
behind.
That statement makes no sense to me even from a bullshit/spin
perspective.
Ali|5.6.08 @ 10:45PM|#
joe, Adamness-
Ah, I see. That makes sense. I thought Kos was being
anti-Obama.
|5.6.08 @ 10:46PM|#
That statement makes no sense to me even from a
bullshit/spin perspective.
Well, bullshit and spin was the entire Clinton strategy, and it's
kept them in the game thus far.
|5.6.08 @ 10:46PM|#
Guy,
Why hasn't Bill just done an emergency speaking tour? That could
easily rake in $10 million or more.
effay|5.6.08 @ 10:46PM|#
"What if she dies, Neil?"
Knowing the Obama fans I know...I wouldn't suggest that to
them...ahh they're gonna think of it sooner or later, why not.
|5.6.08 @ 10:47PM|#
Why Guy Montag has been such a cunt lately:
joe | April 20, 2008, 12:55pm | #
Don't worry, highnumber.
It's just Montag.
You know how every Western had the broken down rummy with the
beard, who said crazy shit you could half make out?
Now imagine a western with one little kid who thinks that the rummy
is a genius.
Cesar | April 20, 2008, 1:01pm | #
I'm I still allowed to say "lol" to joes summation even though that
word has been raped around here?
J sub D | April 20, 2008, 1:37pm | #
Instead of lol, an acronym seemingly loved by the mentally
deficient, I'm going to start using AEM (Audibly Expressed
Mirth).
Prolefeed | April 20, 2008, 4:41pm | #
Alternatively, instead of the now-ruined LOL, how about LATTE
(Laugh At Troll Tainting thrEad)
Help me out with the final E, mmm-kay?
Cesar | April 20, 2008, 4:54pm | #
(Laugh At Troll Tainting thrEad)
You said "Taint".
Bingo | April 20, 2008, 8:01pm | #
Laugh At The Troll Everybody!
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:48PM|#
Well, Hillary has said so far, 'thanks for the victory, you
Hoosiers' and that she will keep fighting.
And she's hit on her gas tax thing twice.
FSM help me, Neil is right.
Clinton is treating this as a split decision, which is what counts
for the likelyhood of this thing going all the way to Denver.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:49PM|#
What does that even mean? What tie? The Indiana primary?
It's not decided yet. The whole dem primary? She's fallen even
further behind.
You need the decoder ring. It is sort of like how she says you need
to be strong to be president, right after she whines about the boys
picking on her.
Newespeak edition 69 I believe is the version you want.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:49PM|#
What the heck is that thing on that person's head in the upper right of the screen?
Neil|5.6.08 @ 10:49PM|#
This is brilliant spin on Clinton's part, the media will eat it
right up!!
ONTO DENVER!! LOL!!
Pottsy|5.6.08 @ 10:52PM|#
God this is gonna be funny when her lead shrinks by another couple of points in an hour.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:52PM|#
Tsk tsk
That hardhat does not look OSHA compliant.
And she's supposed to be the nanny stater.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:53PM|#
I don't know what the hell that was that joe posted, but I do
take pride when the Socialists hate me. More pride when they go off
on babbling tears like that.
Don't let MNG cause too much damage back there.
|5.6.08 @ 10:53PM|#
Cavs 72 Celts 74, Cavs ball, 21 secs.
Aw shit, I forgot to watch. Damn you democratic primary!
|5.6.08 @ 10:53PM|#
In other words, over half of the vote in the state's biggest
college town -- an Obama stronghold -- has yet to even be
counted.
Get real. If current trends hold up there in Monroe county, Obama
will win it by 5 to 6 thouband-not enough for him to overtake the
slime queen's lead. He might make it a 51-49 race though.
SIV|5.6.08 @ 10:53PM|#
joe | May 6, 2008, 9:09pm | #
...which makes it very possible that he's going to have to put
Hillary on the ticket.
That will turn out the GOP base to vote for a RINO.
|5.6.08 @ 10:56PM|#
Neil | May 6, 2008, 10:49pm | #
This is brilliant spin on Clinton's part, the media will eat it
right up!!
That what your gut's telling you, chief?
So, are you more certain, less certain, or about as certain of that
as you were that the gas tax holiday was going to sink Obama in
NC?
You just don't make any effort to conform your yammerings to any
evidence or reason, do you?
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 10:56PM|#
The last minute or so was good rhetorically, but weirdly out of place with the rest of the speech, and out of sync with her delivery
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 10:59PM|#
Like I asked a couple of hours ago, wasn't Mrs. Clinton supposed
to clean up in Indiana?
Oh, wait, I must be watching the Black knight scene from monty
Python and the Holy Grail as played by political impersonators.
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 11:01PM|#
Damn, I was hoping for Olbermann to go unhinged with Matthews pumping up Limbaugh.
|5.6.08 @ 11:03PM|#
Here's one a my faves from the Wave:
Scandal- "Goodbye To You"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAKyHhuw1HA
I dedicare it to Hillary.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 11:04PM|#
oh no! Mrs. Clinton's confetti guns malfunctioned! Must be some of those Carter people behind the scenes.
John|5.6.08 @ 11:05PM|#
How did a former sports anchor who spends the second half of his show covering celebrity gossip and internet memes become the main anchow for MSNBC?
|5.6.08 @ 11:07PM|#
Is there any more awkward pairing than Olberman and
Matthews?
The best thing in the recent New Yorker profile of Matthews was how
Olbermann made almost no effort to hide his contempt for Matthews,
even when being interviewed for a profile of the guy.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 11:08PM|#
The dream is not over Mrs. Clinton, remember, even a loss in votes is a mandate for the change you can bring. Don't quit!
|5.6.08 @ 11:09PM|#
I don't know what the hell that was that joe
posted
It's a collection of libertarians agreeing with this "socialist"
about what disphit you are.
You probably shouldn't keep calling attention to your reading
disability, Guy.
Is it true you were an extra in Gigli?
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 11:17PM|#
Wow, joe is trippin' again. One comment about me in over a dozen
irrelevant comments.
But of course, highnumber's namecalling is only evidence of nothing
anyway.
|5.6.08 @ 11:18PM|#
"Ooops, missed the funny. Mr. Nice Guy "ordered" the
"Authoritarian" to go to sleep, lol."
I just thought it would be best for you guy, as a retarded person
should be pushed to go play with butterflies while the grown-ups
talk...
But certainly, if your authoritarian Turrets makes you state
something, go ahead and blurt it my buddy! It's always
amusing....
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 11:19PM|#
How many threads today has it been you were caught in the same
game joe? My guess is every one that you posted in.
(joe rule back on)
Kolohe|5.6.08 @ 11:21PM|#
Is that 'Johnny Sack' who's playing the heavy in these card check commericals?
|5.6.08 @ 11:22PM|#
In your face, Mr. Nice Guy!
I not only have a Law, I have a Guy Montag rule.
Nyah nyah.
|5.6.08 @ 11:42PM|#
Tonight, I dedicate this one to joe and Guy:
Depeche Mode - "People Are People"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xf9_9ZwqNI
Icl|5.6.08 @ 11:55PM|#
Lake County is breaking 75/25 in Obama's favor. Clinton canceled her morning shows appearances.
Guy Montag|5.6.08 @ 11:59PM|#
Is that 'Johnny Sack' who's playing the heavy in these card
check commericals?
Yea, I just noticed that too. Great casting.
Amazing how some people think that "card check" is somehow more
"fair" than a secret ballot.
CC,
Yep, 2% and seeping in pretty slowly.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:00AM|#
Clinton canceled her morning shows appearances.
NO! this is not going to be her Al Gore concession moment is
it?
|5.7.08 @ 12:01AM|#
Indiana:
"Clinton 55
Hussein 45
North Carolina:
Hussein 53
Clinton 47"
Did you bet any money on this, Neil?
Shoeless Joe|5.7.08 @ 12:04AM|#
If the late numbers hold, Obama is gonna barely squeak out a
victory in Indiana.
Clinton's reaction should be interesting. She'd better find an old
family member that traveled to Oregon in a covered wagon.
|5.7.08 @ 12:08AM|#
Whoa! Lake County is coming in now and it's for Obama big time. This could do it for Obama. If current trends continue in Lake county and the rest of the vote to be counted in the other Obama counties offsets the probable Clinton uncounted county. I think that Obama will win.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:08AM|#
I am with Kos (see Dave Weigel update above) on this one. Mrs. Clinton should stay in longer. I shall be even more "liberal" than them and urge her to stay in, not for 2 more weeks, but all the way to the end of the convention and beyond.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:10AM|#
Wow, there must be some trickery going on here, just like ohio in 2004. The polling before the primary is so wrong that there must be tricery afoot!
|5.7.08 @ 12:11AM|#
Lake County is coming in now and it's for Obama big
time.
CNN is reporting that most of the early Lake Co. votes are from the
Gary area, which should be heavily for Obama. The rest of the
county probably won't be so one-sided.
|5.7.08 @ 12:12AM|#
I am with Kos (see Dave Weigel update above) on this one.
Mrs. Clinton should stay in longer. I shall be even more "liberal"
than them and urge her to stay in, not for 2 more weeks, but all
the way to the end of the convention and beyond.
Yeah, but the question is how bitter(!) Hillary will be about this.
If she wants to stick it to Obama, she'll drop out and let him
suffer two weeks of people saying he can't win states even when
he's the nominee. Or she could stay in, seemingly continue the
madness, and give Obama a bailout for why he lost two states in a
row.
I think what she does will prove whether she wants a Democrat to
win in the fall, or if she doesn't care and is pushing for her 2012
campaign.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:18AM|#
If she wants to stick it to Obama, she'll drop out and let
him suffer two weeks of people saying he can't win states even when
he's the nominee.
Like the stuff Dave has been writing about Sen. McCain when he only
gets +70% in States where others are still on the ballot? Idunno if
that is such a big deal.
On the bitterness, I don't think Sen. Obama had any idea what the
word meant when he was giving his speech in SF, but he will know if
he wins IN.
|5.7.08 @ 12:23AM|#
CNN is reporting that most of the early Lake Co. votes are
from the Gary area, which should be heavily for Obama. The rest of
the county probably won't be so one-sided.
Right. And Obama has to net out 20,000 votes to catch up to the
slime bag.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:24AM|#
Mayor of Gary calling it for Sen. Obama, but he is an Obama
supporter.
6,000 abs. ballots will not be counted tonight.
Interesting.
|5.7.08 @ 12:26AM|#
Like the stuff Dave has been writing about Sen. McCain when
he only gets +70% in States where others are still on the ballot?
Idunno if that is such a big deal.
I think it could be a bigger deal for Obama to lose two straight
than McCain losing 25% in a few states. McCain's weakness is his
conservatives/Republican credentials, while Obama is trustworthy as
a Democrat/liberal, but his weakness is that people aren't sure he
can win states. If he loses two in a row, that becomes the issue
and proves his weakness.
McCain and Obama will be the nominees, but both will be weakened
because they don't have full support from their own parties. I
guess it's a draw.
On the bitterness, I don't think Sen. Obama had any idea what
the word meant when he was giving his speech in SF, but he will
know if he wins IN.
Hah, we'll see. I think what happens over the next week will show
Hillary's true character.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 12:31AM|#
Another analyst just said we have been paying "too much" for gas
for over a year.
Did not catch the rest of her nonsense, but when Sen. Obama starts
printing out ration cards and jacking up taxes on energy companies,
all of our worries will be over.
|5.7.08 @ 12:43AM|#
I know I've been paying "too much" for gas my whole life, because I'm under the impression that everything I want should be given to me for free. I'm glad there are analysts out there who agree with me.
|5.7.08 @ 12:46AM|#
They just updated at Politico - now 94% reporting and Obama is
now about 16,500 behind (just under 1.4 points). Just about all the
missing votes are from Lake County, although there's a single
county on the eastern border that hasn't reported anything;
presumably it will go Clinton but doesn't have much pop.
It's bizarre to think that so much weight will be attached to
whether he or Clinton ended up with a few more votes in what is
eventually a tie in Indiana.
|5.7.08 @ 12:46AM|#
"eventually" should have been "essentially" in that last sentence. Don't know where the fuck that came from....
|5.7.08 @ 12:49AM|#
...and when I say bizarre I mean because who officially "wins" the state doesn't technically mean a thing in the primary, and however it turns out this was clearly a much better night for Obama than Clinton, but it will have so much symbolic weight if she can say she split. Obviously it wouldn't be bizarre in the general election. Maybe I can personally get this thread over 300 posts with follow-ups to myself....
Orange Line Special|5.7.08 @ 12:52AM|#
It's interesting - but not surprising, note the quote marks - to
see "libertarians" cheering on the McCainPresidency rather than
what would be in effect DividedGovernment, i.e., the Hill
option.
If there are any RonPaul supporters or anyone else who wants to
prevent a McCain presidency, go ask Obama one of
these.
|5.7.08 @ 12:58AM|#
Orange Line,
Thanks for playing. Why would any of those inane questions prevent
a McCain presidency?
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 1:02AM|#
OLS,
How would an R president and two D houses of Congress be less
divided than all of them being the same Party?
Granted, he is an R in letter only . . .
|5.7.08 @ 1:10AM|#
That's Union county. Dunno what is up with it.
It's quite small, I bet. There might be more uncounted votes left
in Marion county than total votes in Union.
|5.7.08 @ 1:15AM|#
"Obama lost, but it almost doesn't matter anymore."
Are you seeing some more complete numbers than the 94% reporting
they still have at Politico?
On a related note, WTF is up with Lake County? Did they keep polls
open late?
Kolohe|5.7.08 @ 1:17AM|#
Wow, MSNBC is goin' all Red Eye, but without the eye
candy.
And they finally called IN for Clinton.
lonewacko, AQI and Countrywide represent the two things that will
prevent a McCain inaugural on 1/20/09.
|5.7.08 @ 1:18AM|#
Where are you all getting the updated vote
counts?
TV. The results were waiting on one county that started off at 75%
for Obama, fell to 65% and ended at 55%. If he stayed at 65-70%,
it's very likely he could have won.
|5.7.08 @ 1:19AM|#
OK - they just updated Politico; 99% in, Clinton up by 22,000. Lake County ended up about 55-45 Obama.
Kolohe|5.7.08 @ 1:28AM|#
I take back to what I said before about this going to
Denver.
Maybe the MSNBC propaganda is getting to me, but w/ Clinton
canceling her public appearances tomorrow, I agree it's a sign she
will bow out within the next 48 hours.
I think Romney did sorta the same thing, cancel some appearances
right after super tuesday, then drop out at the CPAC convention
later in the week.
|5.7.08 @ 1:30AM|#
Where are you all getting the updated vote
counts?
CNN web site has links. Very groovy.
|5.7.08 @ 1:34AM|#
"I agree it's a sign she will bow out within the next 48
hours."
That would be awesome, but I have to say I'm still fairly
skeptical. I think she's going to play up the IN win for far more
than it's worth and stay in for at least another couple
primaries.
"CNN web site has links. Very groovy."
I used to look there but I always liked Politico was better. Maybe
I should give it another look.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 1:36AM|#
All those subscribers to Ron Paul's newsletters must be tearing their hair out at the prospect of a Black President.
|5.7.08 @ 1:39AM|#
Edward were be tearing his hair out over the fact that he's a useless dipshit if he had any self awareness.
Foxhunter|5.7.08 @ 2:01AM|#
I'm getting sick and tired of this Hilary/Obama crap. I'm
sitting in an office in Crown Point, IN waiting on results from a
REPUBLICAN primary and Rudy Clay, the chair of the Democratic Party
has conspired with John Curley of the Republican Party to delay the
results.
We're pretty damn pissed...not to mention that we are second in
line for information at the Lake County Government Center behind
the damn national media.
Nash|5.7.08 @ 2:31AM|#
"All those subscribers to Ron Paul's newsletters must be tearing
their hair out at the prospect of a Black President."
And yes Paul all but endorsed Obama on CNN the other day.
Weird.
Orange Line Special|5.7.08 @ 2:36AM|#
Brian24: well, because Obama is an extraordinarily weak
candidate that McCain will easily beat, probably by 15 points.
That's why.
Guy Montag: Hill will be a decisive figure who the Rs will strongly
and reflexively oppose. And, she'll spend a lot of time getting
back at those on her side. OTOH, McCain is basically Arnie without
the accent and would be a Dem in everything but name.
|5.7.08 @ 2:40AM|#
"well, because Obama is an extraordinarily weak candidate that
McCain will easily beat, probably by 15 points."
You're in fine form tonight, LoneHalfWit.
Guy Montag|5.7.08 @ 7:12AM|#
So, Mrs. Clinton wins the "tie breaker". With her "logic", borrowed from Mr. Obama no less, this opens the door to a Gore/Edwards ticket at the convention.
Tsu Dho Nihm|5.7.08 @ 8:31AM|#
Damn...Burton won. Well, that's another two years of being perhaps the most embarrassing member of Congress. At least I don't live in his district anymore.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 10:00AM|#
"And yes Paul all but endorsed Obama on CNN the other day.
Weird."
Ron Paul's just trying to cover his racist ass in a changed
climate.
Rational thinker|5.7.08 @ 10:32AM|#
Dr. Ron Paul is not racist and never was in the past. The NAACP
leader in Texas endorsed him and his libetarian views allow
individual liberty to all regardless of race or religion.
Also...Dr. Paul did not "endorse" Obama...all he did was recognize
the fact that Obama's foreign policy is more closely aligned with
his own than either McWar or Hillabomb.
Check who has donated to their pro-status quo campaigns compared to
Dr. Paul's...real people give to the good doctor...corporations
that profit from the war donate to the others.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 11:19AM|#
"Dr. Ron Paul is not racist and never was in the past."
Right, those racist newsletters he put out were just a little
joke.
|5.7.08 @ 11:22AM|#
well, because Obama is an extraordinarily weak candidate
that McCain will easily beat, probably by 15 points. That's
why.
Aren't you the guy who told us that immigration politics were going
to dominate the 2006 elections?
Rational thinker|5.7.08 @ 11:32AM|#
"The Austin NAACP President Nelson Linder came to Paul's
defense. Linder said that Paul is not a racist and said, "Lets face
it Ron Paul is a thinker and he's also a Constitutionalist". He
continued, "I like Ron Paul personally, I like what he's saying, I
think he's sincere and I think he's correct in what he's
saying"."
I ask the question- Would the NAACP support someone who is
racist...NO. End of story.
|5.7.08 @ 11:39AM|#
I agree that Paul isn't a racist. His statement about Martin
Luther King convinced me.
He was almost certainly putting those newsletters out for the
purpose of manipulating racists, not because he actually agreed
with them.
|5.7.08 @ 11:46AM|#
Edward:
All those subscribers to Ron Paul's newsletters must be tearing
their hair out at the prospect of a Black President.
Edward so often sounds like an obstreperous little kid spouting
nonsensical accusations.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 1:25PM|#
Joe,
You believe that a scumbag who was more than willing to exploit
racism and appeal to racists for polirical gain isn't himself a
racist just because he now says nice things about Martin Luther
King? He never even fucking took responsibility to the newsletters
or apologized for them. Ron Paul must get off so lightly because
he's a total fucking zero. It can't be his charm and charisma.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 1:36PM|#
Okay, you give Ron Paul an inexplicable pass on racism. How
about homophobia?
The June 1990 issue of Paul's Political Report says: "I miss the
closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far
better off when social pressure forced them to hide their
activities."
Rational thinker|5.7.08 @ 1:50PM|#
http://tinyurl.com/37bql5
Says one source, "Ron Paul didn't know about those comments, or
know they were written under his name until much later when they
were brought to his attention. There were several issues that went
out with comments that he would not ordinarily make. He was angry
when he saw them."
Ron Paul has said that he did not write the comments in question,
but, nonetheless, has taken "moral" responsibility for them.
Take this into consideration when passing judgement. Ron Paul did
not write the racist comments that appeared in the newsletter. I
doubt the NAACP would give him a pass on this issue unless this
were absolutely true. The fact that Dr. Paul took some
responsibility shows that he is capable of admitting when he makes
a mistake. Unlike the current resident who stands by his "mission
accomplished" propoganda to this day.
Edward|5.7.08 @ 1:50PM|#
Was Reagan a Commie?
Ron Paul's Polictical Report July 15 1992
Volume VI Number 7
Page 5
Armand Hammer: Traitor
The Soviet archives have been a real source of amusement since they
have been opened. Armand Hamner, the wealthy, pro-Communist
businessnan who earned a fortune off the Soviet government, was one
of the few Americans permitted to do business with the Soviet Union
at the height of its Leninist and Stalinist terror. He was even
permitted to own an apartment in Moscow and a Russian art
collection. Now the archives show he personally transported funds
from the Soviet Union to fund the new U.S. Communist Party in the
1920s. A highly placed staffer in the Reagan White House once told
me that Hammer was one of the handful of people able to call the
President directly without any screening!
Edward|5.7.08 @ 1:53PM|#
"I doubt the NAACP would give him a pass on this issue unless
this were absolutely true."
One member of the NAACP doesn't equal the NAACP, moron.
|5.7.08 @ 2:12PM|#
"Ron Paul must get off so lightly because he's a total fucking
zero."
What a coincidence! That's the same reason you get off so
lightly!
|5.7.08 @ 2:34PM|#
Edward,
You believe that a scumbag who was more than willing to exploit
racism and appeal to racists for polirical gain isn't himself a
racist just because he now says nice things about Martin Luther
King?
Actually, it isn't THAT he said nice things about Martin Luther
King, it's WHAT he said. He not only denounced racism in terms that
are closely aligned with his political philosophy, rather than
mouthing platitudes; and he applauded King not for his nonviolence
(every racist in America LOVES black people who tell other black
people to be nonviolent), but for his use of civil disobedience,
which he linked to his own political philosophy.
I'm sure Ron Paul, being a man of his time and place, has
old-fashioned ideas and reflexes, but he's convinced me that he
does not buy into the beliefs in black inferiority and criminality
that were expressed in those newsletters.
|5.7.08 @ 2:35PM|#
Okay, you give Ron Paul an inexplicable pass on racism. How
about homophobia?
I think he probably is a homophobe. Most people above a certain age
are. He doesn't seem to have said Boo about Texas' sodomy laws.
Dwayne Mayor|5.7.08 @ 5:02PM|#
Why then, did he vote down the MLK holiday then, if he held him in such respect? If he has really changed, you must at least admit, joe, that his views in 1980 were drastically different from his views in 2008.
Ron|5.7.08 @ 6:08PM|#
I thought Reason dropped Ron Paul ages ago precisely because of the racist newsletters. What's going on? Why all this debate about him now?
joe|5.7.08 @ 7:39PM|#
Maybe his views changed, Dwayne. That's certainly
possible.
There is also the fact that he is an libertarian crank, and many
libertarian cranks have the immense poor judgement to look at the
civil rights revolution and see it primarily in terms of the
horrible tragedy that befell racist motel owners and lunch counter
managers, and in terms of the socialistic economic ideals of the
men who led the movement.
It's one of the great black marks on libertarianism, in this
liberal's mind, that these concerns led so many libertarians to
miss the immense, world-historic expansion of human freedom that
the movement accomplished.
JB|5.7.08 @ 10:33PM|#
Nothing compared to the black marks on Democrats. Their legacy of screwing things up from Reconstruction onward should still haunt them. But dem Dems don't really like to think about that past stuff much.
joe|5.8.08 @ 11:32AM|#
Perhaps, JB, that's a consequence of the fact that the Democrats
abandoned those beliefs and now argue for precisely the opposite,
while libertarians still bitch and moan about the Civil Rights Act
and idolize those who opposed it.
Strom Thurmond was driven out of the party by the Democrats
evolution on civil rights issues, while Barry Goldwater is still
held up as a libertarian hero, and people like Lew Rockwell are
still libertarians in good standing.
|5.8.08 @ 12:58PM|#
"How does Ron Paul do with Blacks?"
I don't know how he does overall, but I do know that I have a Ron
Paul license plate, and a few weeks ago a black guy chased me down
honking his horn and screaming out the window that he loves Ron
Paul. He does well with some black people, that's for sure.
"He doesn't seem to have said Boo about Texas' sodomy laws."
In fact, he has said that anyone should be allowed to do whatever
they want in their own bedroom, numerous times. These are blatant
lies.
"Lawson was just endorsed by the Log Cabin Clubs. Wonder if that
was the decisive factor?"
Are you kidding me? That was used in a smear campaign by his
opponent. The decisive factor was that BJ is intelligent,
articulate, worked hard in the campaign, and presented his ideas
well. Republicans in North Carolina are generally very socially
conservative. It also probably helped that his opponent seemed to
have some character issues.
"Not sure Lawson is a "Paul Republican." His support came from
socially moderate Republicans like the Log Cabin Clubs.
Are you saying Paul backed him, as well?"
Yes, Ron Paul endorsed him, and Cho's entire campaign has consisted
of saying that BJ is nothing but a Ron Paul. He said, "If you like
Ron Paul, you should vote for my opponent." The voters apparently
liked that and did just that. He has been reaching out to Democrats
and of course will do that even moreso now that he will face one in
November.
"Hey guys, I don't know too much about this Lawson guy (didn't know
he existed until 2 days ago). Is he a legit good guy here that
isn't just talking the talk? Where would yall put him in a
spectrum; say with between Paul and Flake...others (Libertarians
maybe) that could help me draw a quick and dirty
comparision?"
Yes, he's a legit good guy. He's handed out 10,000 Constitutions
during the primary and really believes that it needs to make a
return. He is the real deal, and a great speaker to boot, which is
why he has been very successful. Take a look at some of the videos
on his website.
"That's three solid libertarian issues in McCain's favor."
It would be if I could trust McCain to actually do that. First of
all, he's probably going to be dealing with a Democratic Congress.
Secondly, he has a history of giving in to Democrats and some even
call him the Senate's most reliable Democrat in the past. He
changes his mind faster than Mitt Romney (look how he's already
done that on immigration numerous times in the past year) and
simply can't be trusted.
Edward|5.8.08 @ 3:20PM|#
"I don't know how he does overall, but I do know that I have a
Ron Paul license plate, and a few weeks ago a black guy chased me
down honking his horn and screaming out the window that he loves
Ron Paul. He does well with some black people, that's for
sure."
With compaelling anecdotal evidence like this, who cares about ten
years' worth of racist newsletters. What fuckwad your are to think
anybody would be gullible enough to believe this shit.
Janet Reno|5.8.08 @ 5:22PM|#
Obama's efforts to connect to the Republican Party, specifically
Bush, and Dick Cheney, of the Halliburton Company, dates back to
the Presidents Grandfather, Prescott Bush, and indeed Cheney was
once an executive officer of Halliburton.
The American military pounds Iraq with Artillary, bombs, and the
like, destroying large sections of cities, and infra-structures,
then Halliburton comes in to rebuild. Halliburton and Halliburton
associated companies have raked in ten's of billions.
Obama is just like the BIG HALIBURTAN. Haliburton has contracted to
build detention centers in the U.S. similiar to the one in
Quantanammo Bay, Cuba. Halliburton does nothing to earn the Two
Dollars for each meal an American Serviceman in Iraq eats.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
Halliburton was scheduled to take control of the Dubai Ports in The
United Arab Emiirate. The deal was canceled when Bush was unable to
affect the transfer of the American Ports.
Now we see what some might suspect as similiar financial escapading
from the Democrats.
Two years ago, Iraq's Ministry of Electricity gave a $50 million
contract to a start-up security company - Companion- owned by
now-indicted businessman (TONY REZKO) Tony Rezko and a onetime
Chicago cop, Daniel T. Frawley, to train Iraqi power-plant guards
in the United States. An Iraqi leadership change left the deal in
limbo. Now the company, Companion Security, is working to revive
its contract.
Involved along with Antoin "Tony" Rezco, long time friend and
neighbor of Democratic Presidential hopeful Barack Obama, and
former cop Daniel T. Frawley, is Aiham Alsammarae. Alsammarae was
accused of financial corruption by Iraqi authorities and jailed in
Iraq last year before escaping and returning here.
LIKE FATHER LIKE SON --
Recently, Obama's campaign staff have been vetted by the IRS to
disclose his connection to the criminal money generating
underworld. Besides, his connections to the REZCO MAFIA types, his
up-coming Tax Fraud charges - Obama needs to disclose why he is a
MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and disclose Obama's MUSLIM Farrakhan mob
connection to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its
minister, and Obama's spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A.
Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine;
Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every
year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year,
it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it
said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan.
Farrakhan and Chicago's Trinity United Church are trumpeting Barack
Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second coming of the messiah.
Oddly enough, Barack Obama, and his mentor Rev. Wright, failed to
mention Planned Parenthood, an organization established by
eugenicist Margaret Sanger expressly for the purpose of black
genocide. The Obelus -- Kiss-A-Cuss and "GLORK" black demagoguery
of Obama's Stump Lines Echo Malcolm X, foreshadows X - PATRIOT
Obama (the new AGA KHAN) - the Umkhonto we Sizwe (or MK),
translated "Spear of the Nation" - as the bringer of a "new
politics," rising above the old Washington ways of expediency. It's
hard to think of an act more blatantly expedient than renouncing
Wright when his show, once done from the press club instead of the
pulpit, could no longer be "contextualized" as something whites
could not understand and only Obama could explain in all its
complexity. Pope Benedict XVI quoted Alexis de Tocqueville and
Franklin Roosevelt on the positive role of faith in society, used
the term "E Pluribus Unum" (Latin for "Out of Many, One.") and
extrapolated America's long history of interfaith cooperation
efforts in his speech to America. Obama should stop suppoting our
intervention in IRAQ. It's time to introduce this false, fake Xerox
- X box Obama and invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing
pipsqueke "GLORK" Xerox - X box to meet the Buffalo
"GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo Creek. He is MAD!!!
--
OBAM YOU'RE NO JFK --
"GLORK" Obama looks like Alfred E. Newman: "Tales Calculated To
Drive You." He is a MUSLIM "Glork" He's MAD!!! Alfred E. Neuman is
the fictional mascot of Mad. The face had drifted through American
pictography for decades before being claimed by Mad editor Harvey
Kurtzman after he spotted it on the bulletin board in the office of
Ballantine Books editor Bernard Shir-Cliff, later a contributor to
various magazines created by Kurtzman.
Obama needs to disclose why he is a MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" and stop
suppoting our intervention in IRAQ. It's time to introduce this
false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and invite the
self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X box to meet
the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo
Creek.
Michelle Obama should be ashamed.
"GLORK" Michelle Obama should be ashamed of her separatist-racist
connection to Farrakhan and Chicago's Trinity United Church
trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second
coming of the messiah. Beneath that Darth-Vader-Mace-Windu-Jedi-Me
ssiah Helmet Hairdo of Michelle Obama lurks a Wildabeast. If
Michelle Obama new what her husband -- the Hope-A-Dope, Fonster
Monster -- Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama did in Harlem, she
would wash her wide-open, Hus-suey loving MUSILM mouth out, with
twenty-four (24) mule-team double-cross X-boX-BorraX. The
Lexis-Nexis-Albatross-Abacus-Complex of Barack and Michelle's
relationship with MUSLIM "PATWANG-FWEEE" Rev. Wright, Louis
Farrakhan, and black demagoguery of Obama's Stump Lines Echo
Malcolm X; is about as much of a Hoax as Oxfam volunteers believe
in HIV-- AIDS Witch Doctors in Africa they feed.
"God damn America" - Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama.
"God bless America" - Pope Benedict XVI and Hillary Clinton
--
Michelle Obama AKA Wildabeast -- failed the Illinois Bar Exam. If
Barack Obama had married Shaniqua instead of the
leftist-separatist-racist-beast-'ist Michelle, his jackanapes'
excitedly-fixed-elitism, Nemet-Oure-Saxas Our Father Our King --
black rage, and "GLORK" black demagoguery of Obama's Stump Lines
Echo Malcolm X; would be taken a lot more expeditiously. Its
expected that Obam will manage his explosive MUSLIM JIHADI --
FATIMA EXTREMISM obsession bitter. He is a MUSLIM "Glork" It's time
to introduce this false, fake "GLORK" Xerox - X box Obama and
invite the self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke Xerox - X
box to meet the Buffalo "GAZOWNT-GAZIKKA" Police Department Buffalo
Creek. He's MAD!!!
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
THE SPEECH --
The Apologia has arrived and once again the self-indicting,
separatist-racist Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama, promises
to heal the wounds of the world. The speech is the rude awakening
of mass messianism of his campaign. Apologetically, Obama the
MUSLIM double-cross X-boX-BorraX has an astonishingly empty
two-prawn echelon explanation of his misjudgment.
In the first prawn: with regard to his connection to
separatist-racist Rev. Wright; Obama summons voodoo and juju to
express slavery as beginning and ending with the Rev. Wright.
In the second prawn: Obama's speech takes credit for Ashley's
dream. A dream of unity Martin Luther King, Jr. borrowed from
Ashley for his historic "I Have A Dream" speech. In Obama's speech,
the connective bond Ashley, the elderly black man and Obama's
grandmother share; represents Obama's self-indicting rise to the
Harvard Yard. For Obama, the grand flag of language is the
semi-fore of words, bestowed upon our nation by the messiah-alumni
from Harvard. Obama's Swoon-Song Apologia to the nation represents
a failed hymn -- a hymn that fails to heal the nation, repair the
world, or make this time different than all the rest. Obama's
speech is a brilliant failure.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
MUSLIM LIES --
The ILLIGITIAMTE MUSLIM MESSIA has blundered yet again!!! The
self-indicting, separatist-racist Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein
Obama, lied about the politics of his campaign. The danger involved
with this self-aggrandizing, -a-hoop, Hope-A-Dope, Fonster Monster
-- Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama is that -- "Like Father
Like Son" X - PATRIOT Obama (the new AGA KHAN), is constantly
wanting to impress America with "...his incapacity for sound
judgment." In 2005, Sen. Obama voted for the Dick Cheney energy
bill, which Cheney wrote in secret with the Exxon Mobil oil
industry. Hillary Clinton opposed Cheney's energy bill, has a plan
to eliminate oil industry tax breaks, and would require oil
companies to contribute to a $50 billion strategic energy fund to
jump-start research and investment in clean energy technologies. On
top of the horrible crime Obama executed in Harlem, the fact is, we
have to hear it from Karl Rove about Obama's latest Campaign
Crisis.
"GLORK" Top Ten Obama Lies:
1. Obam said his parents met at the Selma march -- Reality: He was
born 4 years before that.
2. Obam said he was a constitutional law professor -- Reality: . .
. Obama Made This False Claim In His 2004 Senate Race. "Several
direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary [Senate] campaign
said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is
not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school..
3. Obam said he spoke fluent Indonesian as a child -- Reality: . .
. Obama has claimed on numerous occasions to have become fluent in
Indonesian in six months. Yet another Phi Beta Krakatau lie from
Obama. Those who knew him disputed that during recent interviews.
Israel la Pareira Darmawan, Obama's 1st-grade teacher, said she
attempted to help him learn the Indonesian language by going over
pronunciation and vowel sounds. Truth-be-told: Obama's Indonesian
teachers say Kaku-Pooh.
4. Obam said he was involved in community asbestos and housing
project for the poor -- Reality: . . . Didn't happen. This was the
basis for Barack and Michelle's claim, that he was a community
activist on the South and East Side of Chicago. Usher United Arab
Emirates (UAE) A+ lie both he and his twenty-four (24) mule-team,
Hus-suey loving wife Michelle Obama have been claiming in the
campaign -- Reality: The Chicago Newspaper's Obelus --
Kiss-A-Cuss:...NO-MAMA.
5. Obam said in his book that he received his racial awakening at
age nine reading a Life/Ebony Magazine story about a black man who
was scarred trying to dye his skin white -- Reality: . . . Didn't
happen. Both Magazines (Life and Ebony), and the Rev. Wright and
Farrakhan MUSLIM Trumpet Newsmagazine say, just didn't
happen.
6. Obam's Campaign Didn't Have The "Technical Capacity" To Produce
The "1984" Ad:
Obama: "But it's not something that we had anything to do with or
were aware of and that frankly, given what it looks like, we don't
have the technical capacity to create something like that." (CNN's
"Larry King Live," 3/24/07) -- Reality:...The Creator Admitted All
It Took Was A "Sunday Afternoon" On His Mac. Phillip de Vellis: "I
made the ad on a Sunday afternoon in my apartment using my personal
equipment (a Mac and some software), uploaded it to YouTube, and
sent links around to blogs."
7. Obam's Campaign Claimed His High School Friend Tried To Extort
Money From Them:
"According To The Obama Campaign, [Obama's Punahou Classmate Keith]
Kakugawa Explicitly Raised The Possibility That He Could Make Up
False Stories About Obama, Implying He Would Do So If The Campaign
Did Not Give Him Money." (Maurice Possley, Kirsten Scharnberg and
Ray Gibson, -- Reality: "...An Old Friend's Troublesome Return,"
Chicago Tribune, 3/25/07).
8. Obam voted to bring low-cost foreign labor into New Orleans
after Hurricane Katrina -- Reality: . . . This was a slap in the
face against the African-Americans who were displaced in that city.
Obama also voted to place Michael Chertoff, the man responsible for
the Katrina catastrophe, in charge of Homeland Security. Obama
voted for Senate-Bills that gave Blackwater the funding they needed
to shoot the folks of New Orleans who were only trying to save
their own lives. Inextricably, the towel head voted to allow
Michael Chertoff to waive all applicable laws, including murder,
torture, kidnaping, and he suppoted water-boarding.
9. Obam voted more than five times for USA-PATRIOT ACT renewal --
Reality: . . . This is a Senate-Bill patently offensive to most
Americans. City after city has passed resolutions condemning
USA-PATRIOT ACT. Passively or reflexively, Obama chose to side with
tyranny over freedom and Bush over the folks on this issue. The
Real ID Act, which would allow Michael Chertoff to declare martial
law and imprison Americans, was supported by ex-patriot Obama, as
noted above.
10. Obam is not a MAD MAN. Sen. Obama has not exaggerated the
disconnection with . . ."The Lord God, merciful and gracious,
long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth" --Ex. xxxiv. 6;
or extolled his venomous-vexatious-Vesuvius MUSLIM
madrassahs'-faux-pas on us. Sen. Obama Is not involved along with
Antoin "Tony" Rezco, long time friend and neighbor, now-indicted
businessman (TONY REZKO); or Tony Rezko and a onetime Chicago cop,
Daniel T. Frawley. Sen. Obama is not involved with- nor has Sen.
Obama exhibited any nuclear security, bribery, money payoffs, or
cronyism in the state of Illinois; or criminal activities related
to the BIG HALIBURTAN and V.P. Cheney's Halliburton bribery case;
or any political misjudgment in his escalating Campaign Crisis.
Sen. Obama does not take money from people who hire lobbyists,
partners of lobbyists, spouses of lobbyists, former lobbyists or
state lobbyists. "GLORK" Sen. Obama Is not involved with any Hoax
or Oxfam volunteers and HIV-- AIDS Witch Doctors in Africa they
feed. Sen. Obama is not associated with Exiled "God damn America"
SOULJAH JIHAD -- Rev. Jeremiah Wright, MUSLIM EXTREMIST Malcolm X
KillA -- Louis Farrakhan and black-rage demagoguery; or Obama's Mea
Culpa-Apologia; or Stump Lines Echo Malcolm X; Sen. Obama has not
exulted the virtue of being an aggrieved black man. Sen. Obama does
not accept political contributions from terrorists. Sen. Obama has
not expressed the troublesome sub-text of the October Surprise:
"X-Files" -- The 1980 election scandal exposed... the
extraneous-demon-us-venomous anger driven association between Obama
and aging [VX] Vietnam-era Weather Underground Radical Terrorist
William Ayers. Sen. Obama has not expressed the troublesome
sub-text of the November Surprise: "X-X-Files" -- The 2008 election
scandal exposed... the extraneous-demon-us-venomous anger driven
association between Obama and
501-(C)-Shaddy-Sharpton-Semilunar-Crescent of Allah Islam and
Solar-Solecism-Sista-Soljah-Souljah-Jihad -- AXIS OF EVIL Rev.
Sharpton, Rev. Wright and MUSLIM EXTREMIST Malcolm X KillA -- Louis
Farrakhan, and Malcolm X Mosque No. 7 - JIHADI -- FATIMA EXTREMIST
underground-money connection to Chicago's Trinity United Church of
Christ. Sen. Obama is not a separatist-racist. Michelle Obama AKA
Wildabeast is not a liberal-leftist-sexist-racist. Michelle Obama
AKA Wildabeast -- did not fail the Illinois Bar Exam and trot out
her Marxist leftist-separatist-racist Socialist X box - Soapbox;
Sen. Obama is not a self-indicting thief plagiarizing pipsqueke
Xerox - X box. "GLORK" Obama executed no crime in Harlem. Obama is
Not America's Poison -- Reality:...He's Radio-Active.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
SOULJAH JIHAD -- OBAMA CAMPAIGN CRISIS
The Republicans' disengagement (media bias), if not
disillusionment, with the economic campaign issues is borne out by
the fact that many more Republicans are able to explain,
extinguish, and excoriate the name Barrack Obama with the term
(JIHAD), than can name Bush/Dick Cheney and McCain -- as the Big
Oil -- BIG HALLIBURTAN politicians expanding GOP IRAQ WAR ideology,
and Republican White House Party Elders' GI Bill of Rights for the
21st century IRAQ WAR ECONOMY. Even among Tupac Shakur, Bob Marley,
Muhammad Ali, Ben Holt, Cotton-Club to Lenox Club- a.k.a. "The
Breakfast Club," Staples Singers In Ghana 1971: "When Will We Get
Paid," Paul Robeson or Jay-Z . . . excerpts from the infamous
Malcolm X speech "The Ballot or the Bullet" inexperienced Obama and
conservative Republicans: Clinton is much more visible than GOP
presumptive candidate John McCain towards affecting positively the
important economic issues facing America's middle class economy.
Next, Speaking at an awards banquet for the Society of Professional
Journalists on April 4, "Phoenix New Times" and Village Voice Media
Inc. Executive Editor Michael Lacey used the "N-word" to refer to a
former colleague who voted for the godless, money-laundering,
call-girl-reach-around loving liberal McCain, who collaborated with
the Viet Cong, hides a Rx- cyanide pill in his check, and secretly
fathered a black child with a Unicorn Crêpe Suzette look-alike, who
turned out to become -- you guessed it -- Barack Obama?
When asked who they would vote for in the general election for
president of the United States, the natural pendulum swing in
America is approximately 79% of Republicans named Hillary Clinton
as their choice. Reasons for Obama's Campaign Crisis "GLORK"
Campaign Crisis include:
No excuses. Sen. Obama accepted more money from oil company
executives last month than any other candidate, while he ran an ad
saying he didn't take money from oil companies. Context of ad
extends that oil money taken by IL Sen. Barrack Obama from BIG
HALIBURTAN spells bad MO-Jo for Obama Campaign Crisis and RX for
U.S. stock x-change = VX for U.S. economy. Sen. Obama's giveaways
to the oil industry are not limited to tax breaks. They also
include provisions like royalty relief that are worth billions. And
many of the tax "increases" are simply extensions of existing taxes
that do not impose any additional burden on oil companies. Exactly
half of giveaways were not tax provisions. For instance, the oil
companies received billions in royalty waivers. Obama voted for Big
Oil -- BIG HALLIBURTAN Dick Cheney's 2005 energy bill containing
"billions in dollars in giveaways to the oil companies." [ Ludacris
]
Big Oil -- BIG HALLIBURTAN -- OBAM 50 Cent LIES --
EXAMPLE:
Sections 344-345
Waives royalty payments for drilling for some natural gas in the
Gulf of Mexico.
Section 346
Waives royalty payments for drilling in offshore Alaska.
Sections 353-4
Waives royalty payments for gas hydrate extraction on the Outer
Continental Shelf and public land in Alaska.
Section 383
Allows oil companies drilling in federal land off the coast of a
particular state to pay the state 44 cents of every dollar it would
have paid to the federal government for the privilege of drilling
on federal land.
"Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company
executives and employees last month even as he aired ads in which
he stated he took no oil company money, his campaign finance
reports show. Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company
executives, family members and employees since entering the
presidential race last year, including $46,000 last month. At least
$140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,300, the
maximum permitted under federal law." [LA Times, 4/24/08]
"Obam has more holes in him than Swiss-Cheese." [CNN's
"Politics.com," 4/01/08]
Obam's presidential campaign has received $2,812,336 from firms
that employ registered federal lobbyists. [fec.gov]
Obama has taken $405,747 from the Pharmaceutical industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obama has received $1,185,937 from the Commercial Banking industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam has received over six million dollars from the Securities
& Investment industry. [opensecrets.org]
Obam extracted $666,357 from Exxon-Mobil. [factcheck.org]
Obam extorted $213,000 from Exelon- a nuclear plant operator in
Illinois. [truthdig.com]
Obam has taken $608,822 from the Insurance industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam has taken $168,584 from the Mortgage Banking industry.
[opensecrets.org]
"GLORK" SOULJAH JIHAD -- CAMPAIGN CRISIS
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3369102968312745410&q=Fitna&total=1413&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
WASHINGTON -- Obama's support among Democrats nationally has
softened.
"GLORK" Sen. Barack Obama's support among Democrats nationally has
softened over the last month, particularly among men and
upper-income voters, as voters have taken a slightly less positive
view of him than they did after his burst of victories in February,
according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll.
The survey suggests that Mr. Obama's proximity to Chicago, Democrat
of Illinois, may have been at something of a peak in February,
propelled by a string of primary and caucus victories over Senator
Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, and that perceptions of him are
dramatically trending downward.
Mr. Obama's favorability rating among Democratic primary voters has
dropped seventeen percentage points, to 42 percent, since the last
Times/CBS News survey, in late February. While that figure is
steadily declining, this dramatic decline came in a month during
which he endured withering attacks from Mrs. Clinton, and responded
to reports that his exiled former pastor had made politically
inflammatory statements from his church's pulpit in Chicago, and
swirling questions about Harlem, and the criminal money generating
underworld of 501-(C)-Shaddy-Sharpton-Semilunar-Crescent of Allah
Islam Mosque No. 7; and what Barack Obama did in Harlem -- from
which he cannot extricate himself.
The events of the last month (with the possible exception of Muslim
Jihad).appear to have fundamentally altered the race for the
party's nomination and provided Mrs. Clinton's campaign extensive
evidence of a collapse in Mr. Obama's standing or an overwhelming
preference voiced for Mrs. Clinton by Democratic and Republican
voters in polls: -- perplexing developments in Obama's ongoing
Campaign Crisis, that could be used to persuade uncommitted
super-delegates to sign on with Hillary Clinton.
Twenty-six percent of the general electorate voters who heard of
the Apologia speech that Mr. Obama the self-indicting,
separatist-racist Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama gave to try
to deal with the controversy over Obama's separatist-racist
connection to Farrakhan and Chicago's Trinity United Church
trumpeting Barack Obama AKA Barack Hussein Obama as the second
coming of the messiah, said it made them dislike him. And 74
percent of Democrats and Republicans said Mr. Obama's Campaign
Crisis "GLORK" Campaign Crisis "God damn America" - Jeremiah Wright
and Barack Obama. "God bless America" - Pope Benedict XVI and
Hillary Clinton... stems from the fact that he shows continued
misjudgment for even the most challenging problems. Next, the
overall opinion of people in the news this year; Mr. Obama lacks
the decisive capability to lead, willingness to listen, conviction
and courage. Mr. Obama is no Alexander Manly when it comes to
sexist-racist issues, and he uses false charges and exaggerated
hate-the Saxon-race claims to play politics with national
security.
The junior senator from Illinois has been doing a lot of explaining
about the inexcusable company he has kept for the last 17 years or
so. The complexity of Obama's extremism is that it is all about
him. He's the change... as in La change, c'est moi! ("I am the
State") Exactly. Barack Obama the MUSLIM double-cross X-boX-BorraX,
and his wife Michelle Obama AKA Wildabeast -- the Marxist Leninist
Separatist-Racist Socialist X box - SoapboX come across as
condescending Ivy League black rage liberationists. A politician
can not chose the family he has However; he can chose the pastor he
keeps. The Rev. Jeremiah Wright has influenced Obama's
liberal-elitist-separatist-racist Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad
views on a variety of subjects. This flare-up may have exacerbated
what happened to Obama over the years, as his MUSLIM radicalism and
demonize the White-Saxon-race, may expel the same Rev. Wright
belief -- that America and its US allies brought on 9/11. In a
sincere re-examination of his world-view, Obama's Mea
Culpa-Apologia says this guy is like an uncle to him. To Obama the
excursus of AXIS OF EVIL Rev. Sharpton, Rev. Wright and MUSLIM
EXTREMIST Malcolm X KillA -- Louis Farrakhan black rage, is
grounded in extremist-racist hate Israel world-view, and extols
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's praise of Barack; while
white resentment of Obama's black-rage demagoguery is exaggerated
and exploited. But shouldn't his long term relationship with these
despicable characters call into question at the very least Obama's
judgment? From Waxahache, TX.-- to Axis-of-Evil, Mr. Obama lied
about the politics of his campaign, and knew about Ex-Pastor Rev.
Wright's MUSLIM Militant Farrakhan Malcolm X Mosque No. 7 - JIHADI
-- FATIMA EXTREMIST mob connection to Chicago's Trinity United
Church of Christ.
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
Colfax: Sen. Obama on Lobbyists --
"Considering that Sen. Obama voted to suspend the gas tax three
times when gas cost less than $2 a gallon and has an energy
lobbyist chairing his Indiana campaign, it's hard to take his
latest criticisms very seriously. Senator Obama wants Americans to
pay the gas tax but Senator Clinton thinks the big oil companies
should pay it this summer." - Clinton spokesperson Phil
Singer
Colfax: Sen. Obama voted three times for a gas tax holiday in 2000
when gas prices were less than $2 a gallon. Next, Kip Tew, the top
advisor to Obama's Indiana campaign is an energy lobbyist. Tew said
recently, "I'm not running away from the fact that I'm a lobbyist.
I have a healthy client list, and I'm proud of it."
May 3, 2008--APEX-- 2:11:35 PM #
The choice is simple: Senator Obama wants the American people to
pay the gas tax this summer but Senator Clinton thinks Big Oil
should.
The Clinton gas tax holiday is financed exclusively through a tax
on windfall profits from oil companies and keeps the Highway
Transportation Trust fund intact. Hillary opposed a plan in 2000
for a gas tax holiday because it was financed with transportation
funds.
Sen. Obama voted three times for a gas tax holiday in 2000 when gas
prices were less than $2 a gallon.
MAY 2, 2008--APEX-- 11:54:21 AM #
"When it comes to lobbyists, Senator Obama's words might sound nice
but voters need to make sure they read the fine print. Despite
trying to give the impression that he has no relationship with
lobbyists or special interests, the reality is that Senator Obama
takes money from people who hire lobbyists, partners of lobbyists,
spouses of lobbyists, former lobbyists and state lobbyists."
Statement from Clinton Deputy Communications Director, Phil
Singer
Sen. Obama Has Ties to Lobbyists in His Presidential Bid.
Public Citizen: 10 of Sen. Obama's bundlers have been federal
lobbyists. The Public Citizen report listed the following ten
bundlers for Sen. Obama who have registered as federal lobbyists:
Frank Clark, Commonwealth Edison; Scott Harris, Harris Wiltshire
and Grannis; Allan J. Katz, Akerman Senterfitt; Robert S. Litt,
Arnold & Porter; Thomas J. Perrelli, Jenner and Block; Thomas
A. Reed, Kirkpatrick & Lockhart Preston Gates Ellis LLP; Paul
N. Roth, Schulte Roth & Zabel; Miriam Sapiro, Summit
Strategies; Alan Solomont, Solomont Bailis Ventures; and Tom E.
Wheeler, Core Capital Partners. [Public Citizen, 1/29/08]
Sen. Obama and his thugs extort money from employees of firms that
lobby and has lobbyists as advisers. "But those who lobby for a
living say it's not that simple, and even Obama's stance shows some
flexibility. He won't take money from federal lobbyists but accepts
money from employees of firms and corporations that lobby, and he
uses lobbyists and other government relations professionals as
advisers... Obama has also used major fundraisers who are
registered lobbyists on the state level. And he uses registered
federal lobbyists such as Broderick Johnson, who lobbies for
AT&T and Shell Oil, among others, as a campaign adviser.
Because Johnson isn't giving money to Obama, his name won't show up
in Federal Election Commission records." [Chicago Tribune,
2/10/08]
Bloomberg: Five of [Obama's] ten biggest sources of funds are
groups of employees at law firms that lobby in Washington. "While
Obama doesn't accept money from registered federal lobbyists, five
of his 10 biggest sources of funds are groups of employees at law
firms that lobby in Washington…Among Obama's top donors were
employees of the Chicago-based law firm of Sidley Austin LLP, who
gave $105,750 in the first quarter. The firm was paid $4.5 million
last year" for lobbying the federal government. [Bloomberg,
6/7/07]
Obam's presidential campaign has received $2,812,336 from firms
that employ registered federal lobbyists. [fec.gov]
Obam has taken $405,747 from the Pharmaceutical industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam has received $1,185,937 from the Commercial Banking industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam has received over six million dollars from the Securities
& Investment industry. [opensecrets.org]
Obam has taken $608,822 from the Insurance industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam has taken $168,584 from the Mortgage Banking industry.
[opensecrets.org]
Obam extracted $666,357 from Exxon-Mobil. [factcheck.org]
Obam extorted $213,000 from Exelon- a nuclear plant operator in
Illinois. [truthdig.com]
Obam voted for the Big Oil -- BIG HALLIBURTAN Dick Cheney's 2005
Energy Bill, Hillary opposed. [H.R. 6, Vote #213, 07/29/05]
Prior to His Presidential Campaign, Sen. Obama extorted Money from
Lobbyists and PACs
Obam's Leadership PAC includes John Gorman of Texas-based Tejas
Securities, a major supporter of Senate Democrats as well as the
Bush presidential campaigns. [truthdig.com]
1996-2004: $296,000 of the $461,000 Sen. Obama raised as a state
senator came from PACs, corporate contributions or unions. "But
behind Obama's campaign rhetoric about taking on special interests
lies a more complicated truth. A Globe review of Obama's campaign
finance records shows that he collected hundreds of thousands of
dollars from lobbyists and PACs as a state legislator in Illinois,
a US senator, and a presidential aspirant. In Obama's eight years
in the Illinois Senate, from 1996 to 2004, almost two-thirds of the
money he raised for his campaigns -- $296,000 of $461,000 -- came
from PACs, corporate contributions, or unions, according to
Illinois Board of Elections records. He tapped financial services
firms, real estate developers, healthcare providers, oil companies,
and many other corporate interests, the records show." [Boston
Globe, 8/9/07]
In his 2004 U.S. Senate race, Sen. Obama raised $128,000 from
lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs. "Obama's US Senate campaign
committee, starting with his successful run in 2004, has collected
$128,000 from lobbyists and $1.3 million from PACs, according to
the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonprofit organization that
tracks money in politics. His $1.3 million from PACs represents 8
percent of what he has raised overall." [Boston Globe,
8/9/07]
http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/
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