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Mike's Hard Lemonade Yields Hard Time
Absent-minded professor
dad buys lemonade for his kid at a baseball game. Turns out it's a
Mike's Hard
Lemonade.
After a guard spots the bottle, the kid is whisked away to the hospital in an ambulance (!) where they found no trace of alcohol in his blood about 90 minutes later. The doctors said he was OK to go, but instead he wound up in foster care. It was "two days before the state of Michigan allowed Ratte's wife, U-M architecture professor Claire Zimmerman, to take their son home, and nearly a week before [dad Christopher] Ratte was permitted to move back into his own house."
Everyone involved seems to have come down with a serious case of "just following orders":
The sympathetic cop who interviewed Ratte and his son at the hospital said she was convinced what happened had been an accident, but that her supervisor was insisting the matter be referred to Child Protective Services.
And Ratte thought the two child protection workers who came to take Leo away seemed more annoyed with the police than with him. "This is so unnecessary," one told Ratte before driving away with his son.
But there was really nothing any of them could do, they all said.
Jacob Sullum wrote about the hard treatment of girly beer substitutes at the hands of the law here.
|4.28.08 @ 5:28PM|#
We work for the government. We are not paid to think. Or allowed to. Zero tolerance often equates to zero sense.
Urkobold™|4.28.08 @ 5:29PM|#
WHAT? THE URKOBOLD THOUGHT THAT HE'D GIVEN JUNIOR ALCOHOL-FREE SHOTS OF TEQUILA. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAVE TO SHOOT HIM NOW? DO NOT PUSH THE URKOBOLD. HE HAS REVOLTED BEFORE OVER SMALLER SLIGHTS.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.28.08 @ 5:31PM|#
Oh yeah, like any coach is going to bring lemonade for the kids
with alcohol in it ON PURPOSE. Have to admit, though, first time I
saw Mike's in the store, I didn't realize it had alcohol in
it.
Last summer Mrs TWC offered That Boy and his two buddies ice cold
bottles of Henry Weinhardt's Vanilla Cream Soda, except she gave
them bottles of some high dollar boutique ale, or whatever, instead
without realizing it. (hey! I'm a wino, not a Hophead, I don't know
these things)
At eleven, it is safe to say, those boys do not have a developed
brew palate. YUCK! What's this stuff?
It was very classic, glad Mrs TWC didn't go to jail.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.28.08 @ 5:34PM|#
I mean, picture it, it was like 100 degrees out, hot as hell, they'd been hiking and climbing on the rocks, they were filthy, sweaty, and thirsty. She hands them each a bottle of what they think is cream soda, and they just upend the bottle and start guzzling.....
|4.28.08 @ 5:35PM|#
The joys of the regulatory state.
Since at sometime, some low-level servant of the state, using what
little discretionary power they had, made a bad judgement, policies
were re-written and laws were passed by outraged legislators, to
make sure that the low-level grunts of the state never make another
bad decision.
Covers everyones ass, oppresses everyone equally, and no one is
responsible.
|4.28.08 @ 5:35PM|#
My biggest non-rape themed fear is that I will be caught up in a bureaucratic nightmare in which someone fucks up and I get in trouble for doing something that is not a problem at all and, although the state admits that they made a problem, it still takes me years to get my life back to normal.
|4.28.08 @ 5:37PM|#
My dad gave me a sip of his beer when I was eight.
If I'd known he was going to get the chair for it, I wouldn't have
bragged so much at school.
|4.28.08 @ 5:38PM|#
Parents can't give their own children reasonable and supervised
quantities of alcohol in Michigan?
What?
The Wine Commonsewer|4.28.08 @ 5:41PM|#
If I'd known he was going to get the chair for it, I
wouldn't have bragged so much at school.
ladies and gents, that there is a thread winner.
LarryA|4.28.08 @ 6:17PM|#
Now Ratte is someone who needs a complementary issue of
Reason.
"How to make a libertarian."
|4.28.08 @ 6:17PM|#
Just another example of how "service for" a clientele (public school, child services & welfare, etc.) becomes "control of" a constituency when the service provider is government. Said another way, don't ever let the government do you "a favor." The next thing you know, they'll think they own you and they'll have the muscle to back up that belief.
|4.28.08 @ 6:28PM|#
Ratte is a tenured professor of classical archaeology at the
University of Michigan...
As I understand it, this event closely mirrors the opening set
piece of the new Indiana Jones movie.
Of course, in the movie Child Protective Services doesn't
win...
|4.28.08 @ 6:29PM|#
But there was really nothing any of them could do, they all
said.
What a bunch of unthinking loons. If they had any integrity or
believed what they were doing was *wrong*, they should have either
raised a fuss or quit their jobs.
PR|4.28.08 @ 6:31PM|#
In Texas, at least back in the day when I worked at a restaurant, it is/was legal for children to drink with parents present. But back then it took a family instead of a village...
|4.28.08 @ 6:38PM|#
Once the bibertarians are in full control of the United
States--probably sometime in the next ten years--we'll be invading
Europe to stop parents from serving wine to minors.
Operation Save the Children! We'll be napalming strategic
grape-growing regions in France, Germany, and Italy.
Coincidentally, California will have a gigantic boom in its wine
industry during the war.
|4.28.08 @ 6:40PM|#
I mean, picture it, it was like 100 degrees out, hot as
hell, they'd been hiking and climbing on the rocks, they were
filthy, sweaty, and thirsty. She hands them each a bottle of what
they think is cream soda, and they just upend the bottle and start
guzzling.....
Come to think of it the only time i ever really enjoyed a beer was
when i was eleven and just got done doing just what those boys had
been up to....and i knew, as well as my dad knew, it was beer at
the time.
Hmm exposed to beer under a protected parental controlled
environment and i drink maybe once every 3 months as an adult....go
figure.
Well that and alcohol has never, never ever, helped me get
laid.
The later probably being the controlling influence over my adult
drinking habits.
|4.28.08 @ 6:45PM|#
Stunned that there was any state in the country that would allow
what happened here, I did hunt around for information on what
states criminalize serving of alcohol to one's own children. I
discovered from more than one source that most states permit it.
Examples that do: NY, MA.
Examples that don't: MI.
SIV|4.28.08 @ 6:58PM|#
I've seen signs in stores on the beer cooler specifically saying
parents may not serve any amount of alcohol to their own
children.
I think LA, but it could have been AL or MS.
SIV|4.28.08 @ 7:09PM|#
I have a friend who is a CPS investigator. Thoroughly investigating trivial, malicious and unfounded complaints is about half her job. There are mandates for this at the Federal as well as State level.Anonymity and immunity for tipsters is guaranteed under Federal law for malicious false reports.
Drew Curtis|4.28.08 @ 8:20PM|#
FWIW, guys, FARK just greenlit this.
They don't seem to care much about Balko's stuff. But something
like this, they're all over.
|4.28.08 @ 8:30PM|#
Well that and alcohol has never, never ever, helped me get
laid.
You're supposed to have her drink it.
*shakes head* Amateurs.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.28.08 @ 8:55PM|#
You know what makes MHL even better?
Walking past it to grab abeerglass of red wine instead?
Fixed. ;-)
Jennifer|4.28.08 @ 8:56PM|#
I'm sure those two days in foster care taught the kid a valuable lesson about how much trust and faith he should have in the government, the organization which believes that being ripped from your family and sent to live with strangers is vastly preferable to possibly consuming a minute quantity of alcohol.
|4.28.08 @ 8:56PM|#
This is not an exageration. If I had been the father in this story, there would be dead police officers and dead CPS assholes right now. I wouldn't care if I had to give up everything I own and lam it with my family for the rest of our lives. No fucking way the state gets my child. No fucking way - I don't care who has to die.
|4.28.08 @ 8:58PM|#
Absent-minded professor dad buys lemonade for his kid at a
baseball game.
Not that I agree with the result, but it is hard to believe any
half-way educated person could walk into a grocery store, go to the
beer section, and proceed to pick up beverages that are sandwiched
between the Mic-light and the Amstel and have no clue they are
alcoholic.
|4.28.08 @ 9:06PM|#
Sometimes we really could use a flag comment function. Either that or give me moderator powers.
|4.28.08 @ 9:07PM|#
I would be curious to know how many unsolved armed robberies, or rapes this town still had on it's books, while these clowns were wasting the taxpayer's money on this mortal threat to Western Civilization.
|4.28.08 @ 9:15PM|#
I enjoy how so many of the comments here are absolutely useless
to the discussion and display the horror that is the American mind
today. What a sad, stupid people we have become.
and Cab..... your comment about a grocery store and lemonade at a
baseball game ......that comparison is pointless.... the man was
not at a grocery store......
Kolohe|4.28.08 @ 9:21PM|#
Cab
In the (smallish) safeway closest to where I live, the refergerated
shelf in one aisle has non-alcoholic drinks (pepsi, sobe) on the
near end, beer in the middle and stuff like Mike's (and Odoul's)
sandwiched between them.
Jennifer|4.28.08 @ 9:22PM|#
Some Fark commenters are defending the state's actions here, because the kid might have been in mortal danger. I think said commenters aren't even trolls.
|4.28.08 @ 9:23PM|#
it is hard to believe any half-way educated person could
walk into a grocery store, go to the beer section, and proceed to
pick up beverages that are sandwiched between the Mic-light and the
Amstel and have no clue they are alcoholic.
First of all, the very first line of the post says:
Absent-minded professor dad buys lemonade for his kid at a baseball game.
[emphasis added]
So he didn't have to walk past the beer section to get it. Second,
the sign on the concession stand called it simply "Mike's
Lemonade."
|4.28.08 @ 9:26PM|#
BobKran, you're right. I coach my kids' t-ball team and bring drinks for after the game. My mind was somewhere else. I should have read the fucking article. my bad.
|4.28.08 @ 9:26PM|#
Wow. If the kid's dad had intentionally given him the
hooch, this would still be a gross over reaction.
Hurray Government.
|4.28.08 @ 9:30PM|#
Fixed. ;-)
Ok TWC, I can go with red wine there -- I'd call either way a
definite improvement.
Brint|4.28.08 @ 9:41PM|#
Um, ok. So you would rather have low-level government employees
interpreting the law on-the-fly? When the lawsuit comes down, going
against the rules is a loss for the govt and that's a loss of your
tax dollars. Where is the personal responsibility here? The dude
gave a kid alcohol.
Are you going to give cops flexibility in the other direction? If
the fuzz holds somebody extra long, without real cause, because
they're using their judgment, they'll get tarred and feathered by
somebody.
What do you think breeds EXTREME caution on the part of cops,
school admins, etc.? It's all the assholes second-guessing them.
It's a lot easier to point to a rule you're following to the letter
than to admit you were winging it. Nobody, and I mean nobody of any
political persuasion, is going to give them the benefit of the
doubt every time, so they'd rather stick to the rules than make a
judgment call.
What if it's a 16 year old who had a half a beer at a party and is
honest about it. Do you risk your pension and let him roll home?
What if it's a dude who is obviously being framed up by his chick
for a domestic abuse case? Do you leave him behind with a promise
not to beat her up? Talk about life-changing: losing their job and
pension and being tagged by a civil suit is what these folks are
looking at if they bend the rules the wrong time.
Stop fucking with these people for every minor slip-up and you may
get some leniency, but since that is a recipe for stupid in the
other direction, just keep slinging poo and watching the
bureaucrats covering their asses.
What a bunch of freaking hypocrites.
Bryan Hupperts|4.28.08 @ 9:41PM|#
OMG... I had some of this stuff, thought it tasted like Moose wee and promptly spit it out. I had no idea it had alcohol in it. No wonder. I'm 45 and don't drink.
|4.28.08 @ 9:48PM|#
Where are the 'zero tolerance' people when it comes to
interpreting the United States Constitution? Unconstitutional war?
Sure. Cruel and unusual punishment? Go right ahead.
Don't think these people actually have 100% respect for the law.
They have 100% for Authoritah, and if their Authoritah tells them
to do something different than what the law says, they do what
Authoritah says.
|4.28.08 @ 9:49PM|#
Some Fark commenters are defending the state's actions here,
because the kid might have been in mortal danger. I think said
commenters aren't even trolls.
I read Fark comments a couple of times. My bad.
|4.28.08 @ 10:00PM|#
minor slip-up
and
[it was] nearly a week before [dad Christopher] Ratte was
permitted to move back into his own house.
Brint, reconcile those two statements please.
Santiago|4.28.08 @ 10:10PM|#
What do you think breeds EXTREME caution on the part of
cops, school admins, etc.?
HA HA HA HA HA!
What if it's a 16 year old who had a half a beer at a party and
is honest about it.
Um, ok. Nice analogy, Brint. The guy's dad was right there.
|4.28.08 @ 10:21PM|#
Brint, this happened in Michigan, where the foster care system
is under attack for children being neglected and killed while in
the system.
The child had an insignificant amount of alcohol and was placed in
increased danger by putting him in foster care for two days.
Think!
|4.28.08 @ 10:26PM|#
The dude gave a his kid
alcohol.
Fixed that for you...
Are you going to give cops flexibility in the other
direction?
Of course not. Why should we? This is a unidirectional
relationship. There's not some medium amount cops can violate
rights -- no more and no less. They can't violate rights without
cause. Period. Whoever made a decision that could not be rescinded
by their inferiors should be in trouble here. But I doubt they will
be.
What a bunch of freaking hypocrites.
Hypocrite strawmen.
Brandybuck|4.28.08 @ 10:33PM|#
They don't seem to care much about Balko's stuff. But something like this, they're all over.
Of course! Fark (and Slashdork) is home to the pseudotarians!
|4.28.08 @ 10:34PM|#
Are you going to give cops flexibility in the other
direction?
Absolutely not! "Innocent until proven guilty" assumes a suspect is
entitled to a reasonable doubt. The authorities should
always be forced to justify acting against a citizen. The
citizen should not be in the position of having to justify himself
to the authorities.
If the fuzz holds somebody extra long, without real cause,
because they're using their judgment, they'll get tarred and
feathered by somebody.
As well they should. The distinction is, the authorities, if
relying on their own judgment, are obliged to give deference to the
rights of the accused. As the old saying goes, it's better that 10
guilty men go free than one innocent man gets hung.
Bob Goodman|4.28.08 @ 10:35PM|#
picture it, it was like 100 degrees out, hot as hell, they'd been hiking and climbing on the rocks, they were filthy, sweaty, and thirsty.
Another option shown at my link. Except it doesn't address the
thirst.
|4.28.08 @ 10:36PM|#
I realize it was just an oversight, but the second you allow a father to give his son Mike's Hard Lemonade you implicitly condone Zima and Bacardi Breezers. Before you know it, the kid enjoys wine coolers. Then, white zin. After that, I think we all know the next logical step is man on dog.
douglas gray|4.28.08 @ 10:58PM|#
Nobody said how hard the stuff actually is? Is it like beer,
wine, or hard liquor?
Our culture is similar to hard-line Islamic states in some
respects, only our officials have a cow over different
things.
I can't imagine law enforcement in Sweden, France or Denmark
behaving this way. Substance demonization is a peculiar trait of
American culture... wasn't always so, but is now.
|4.28.08 @ 11:12PM|#
I was an assistant prosecuting attorney in Northern Michigan for
several years and had many dealings with CPS. They, for the most
part, are very caring individuals that usually do not do ridiculous
things like that which occurred here. Even if the cops do call CPS
in, it is well within their discretion to determine no further
action is warranted. To say otherwise is a lame attempt at passing
the buck.
My guess is that the area CPS was called on the carpet by someone
for using that discretion in a deciding how to approach a different
matter and that someone jumped all over the CPS because they didn't
agree with the particular decision made. CPS responds by saying
"Fine, if x wants us to do everything and not trust us, we'll give
x everything." x could be either the police, the prosecutor or even
a particularly vocal private citizen. These public servants have a
hard enough (not to mention incredibly emotionally draining) job to
do, so it's clear to me that someone was trying to make a point.
Unfortunately it came at a cost to people that didn't deserve to be
treated in such a manner. Regardless, everyone looks bad and nobody
wins.
cbmclean|4.28.08 @ 11:20PM|#
Douglas Gray
Nobody said how hard the stuff actually is? Is it like beer,
wine, or hard liquor?
The stuff is pretty weak. Wikipedia lists it at 5.2%
|4.29.08 @ 12:12AM|#
If this was Europe it'd be a total non-issue. Thanks American for fucking up another family over nothing.
Jennifer|4.29.08 @ 12:13AM|#
Stop fucking with these people for every minor slip-up and
you may get some leniency
Wow. A kid being taken from his parents and forced to live with
strangers for two days is only a "minor" slip-up in your world?
Snall|4.29.08 @ 2:11AM|#
I would have been much happier has this been from England and not the US...but our society is just as screwed..damn.
|4.29.08 @ 2:22AM|#
Back when I was 12 or so, my parents let me drink it up a party
with some of their friends; enough that the next day I was sick as
a dog. When I asked why i was so sick, they told me I must allergic
to alcohol...
I later found out that was a lie.
|4.29.08 @ 3:27AM|#
I am very happy that I do not live in the US anymore. China (Shanghai is home) has more day to day personal freedom than this, provided you don't bash the Govt. you can certainly have a drink outside, in public. Land of the free... please
|4.29.08 @ 4:39AM|#
My parents willfully encouraged me to consume ethanol when I was
still a child. This caused me to become an addict at an early
age.
This does not appear to be the case here, but could be.
meeko|4.29.08 @ 7:34AM|#
Jesus,
thanks god i'm living in the old good Europe, i mean, we probably
don't have all the achievements like WoD and CPS, we do have
retarded police as well though.
I'm just wondering, maybe we should start offering green cards to
USA people :), 'cos it seems the tide is turning and Europe is
becoming more free than the USA ( well, the EU still sux hard, but
it's vanilla compared to the fuckup you have over there )
BTW. In Europe, at least in my country, you can go to pub when you
are like 15+ and get yourself a beer without problem, and i don't
see young people running all over the place killing someone or
stuff like that ;)
|4.29.08 @ 8:39AM|#
Stop fucking with these people for every minor slip-up and
you may get some leniency
translate:
"Obey and maybe we'll stop beating you."
or, as a popcultref:
"Git yer dirt otta mah hole, Luke."
|4.29.08 @ 8:43AM|#
My dad started giving me whiskey starting when I was four. By six, I was drinking tall glasses of it with my meals. I had no problems at all growing up. Now that I am 24, I feel fine. However, I am in prison for killing 13 people. But that had nothing to do with my alcohol consumption.
|4.29.08 @ 9:01AM|#
Fyi, I think this is nuts too but to clarify one question on the
thread:
"In Michigan, the possession of alcohol by anyone under 21 is
against the law, period. There is no exclusion, as in many other
states, for parents to give their teenagers a glass of wine or
bottle of beer within the home."
Source:
http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/09/28/underage-consumption-laws-in-michigan/
|4.29.08 @ 10:34AM|#
What do you think breeds EXTREME caution on the part of
cops, school admins, etc.? It's all the assholes second-guessing
them.
But there's no problem with cops second-guessing parents' decisions
about how to raise their children?
Naga Sadow|4.29.08 @ 10:40AM|#
Seamus,
Thats no problem. After all its for the common good. The arguments
usually go "its for the children".
|4.29.08 @ 10:50AM|#
Lovely Christofascist State we're living under, isn't
it?
Erm, your religious conservative types tend to be consistent
proponents of family rights, and have some history of resistance to
hyperactive CPS agencies.
|4.29.08 @ 11:53AM|#
It's bad enough if we have smart people in charge of protecting
us, or if we have idiot leaders with no authority, but instead we
have the worst of both worlds; idiots appointed as our guardians
and in charge of our personal affairs. God forbid we have free men
and women dangerously in charge of their own affairs.
And this is all our own fault, collectively speaking. We as a
nation have insisted that the government protect us, and this is
our wish come true.
|4.29.08 @ 12:07PM|#
That kid was taken to foster care? Seems a lot more dangerous than having a dad who accidentally gave him an MHL.
|4.29.08 @ 12:44PM|#
That's just stupid... Someone should have asked if the dad realized that it had alcohol in it ! ... then dump it out or give it to me LOL ...
Obvious|4.29.08 @ 1:29PM|#
I think they should make the producers of drinks like this
create labels that more clearly identify the contents...
Thanks
|4.29.08 @ 7:54PM|#
"If this was Europe it'd be a total non-issue. Thanks American
for fucking up another family over nothing."
Maybe today that is true but soon, under Sharia law, all alcohol
will be forbidden in Europe.
|4.30.08 @ 7:40AM|#
A guy is standing at the concession stand with his 7 year-old kid, orders a beer and a lemonade - and they sell it to him with no questions. Who broke a law?
|4.30.08 @ 10:09PM|#
I hope this guy puts his son through college on the proceeds of this fuck up. Someone needs to get sued, BIGTIME!!
|5.3.08 @ 10:27AM|#
Did the seller tell the dad that it had alcohol and ask for his
ID when he purchased it?
Also, the picture of the bottle above does not show a clear message
like "This is an Alcoholic beverage - do not server to
minors!!"
So both the ball park (who allowed the seller to work there) and
Mike's beverage company need to be sued for causing much more
damage than they were trying to prevent.
|5.3.08 @ 10:38AM|#
correction: So both the ball park (who allowed the seller to work there) and Mike's beverage company need to be sued. Also, law enforcement etc. need to be sued for causing much more damage than they were trying to prevent.
Richard Laurence Baron|5.4.08 @ 10:48AM|#
Since hearing about this from Scott Simon yesterday, I have been
trying to identify the guilty party. I have decided to point the
finger at just about everyone involved. Simon and many other
commentators identify the State as perpetrators of the awful
because its minions followed procedures. This makes America sound
like Nazi Germany - we were just following orders.
Yet, as pointed out above, there is hardly a single police officer,
case officer or judge that has not been criticized or punished by
someone for making a decision when it comes to child
protection.
On the other hand, how absent-minded does a professor have to be to
allow his seven-year-old son to consume something that the
professor has not already examined? Is there some parental
responsbility absent here?
On the gripping hand, is the ballpark responsible for what it
sells, and to whom? The ballpark operator or the beverage
manufacturer offer potentially deep pockets, so they can be sued
more effectively than the government.
No one came out of this on the good side, except perhaps the child.
After Professor Zimmerman gets over her mad at the State, I would
love to hear what she has to say to Professor Ratte.
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