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Red Meat for H&R Commenters
Have at it, gang.
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.
UPDATE: Hoax-a-rific.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:03PM|#
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock
value" or to generate controversy.
That's politician-level bullshit. The rest is just "crazy artist
makes a splash" standard fare, unless of course you think that
fetuses are human beings.
Now, if she could have gay sex while smoking crack and then have
her abortions, that would be shocking. No it wouldn't. But it might
be entertaining.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:06PM|#
"Yale should be ashamed that it is allowing an 'art' project
that will offend millions of Americans," she said.
What an epic-level whiner.
|4.17.08 @ 1:07PM|#
Sperm donors? That sounds awfully expensive. And how do they know it's real blood? This looks like a p.r. stunt.
|4.17.08 @ 1:07PM|#
Geez, I used to hide my boogies by sticking them under the desk. Who knew that was art?
|4.17.08 @ 1:07PM|#
@Cesar: Ditto.
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
KB|4.17.08 @ 1:07PM|#
I don't know how many posts it'll get here, but I saw that on the Drudge Report this morning and it brought down the Yale Daily News server.
Neil|4.17.08 @ 1:08PM|#
This is why we need to elect strong Republicans like McCain to
protect the sanctitty of the unborn!
B. Hussein Obama would probably give federal funding to outrages
like this! Someone should ask him what he thinks of this at the
next debate.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:09PM|#
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.
Boring. Better over/under: How many minutes into their show before
Sean Hannity/Joe Scarborough/et al. bring this up and coat their
respective camera lenses with indignant outraged wads of spittle.
I'm going with 7 minutes.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:11PM|#
Fertilized eggs may not be persons, but they're not lumps of
charcoal, either.
I suppose not. Charcoal is useful, for one thing.
anon.|4.17.08 @ 1:12PM|#
Remember when "artists" had to, like, paint and stuff? The real tragedy is that this hack is going to have a diploma from Yale in a couple of months.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 1:13PM|#
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Now I know why she had to be inseminated artificially...
|4.17.08 @ 1:13PM|#
Boring. Better over/under: How many minutes into their show
before Sean Hannity/Joe Scarborough/et al. bring this up and coat
their respective camera lenses with indignant outraged wads of
spittle. I'm going with 7 minutes.
Far be it from me to defend either of the aforementioned
assholes...but if there was ever a reason to emit copius wads of
spit.......
Neil|4.17.08 @ 1:14PM|#
Remember when Yale was a Christian school?
This is what happens when American turns away from Judeo-Christian
values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.
|4.17.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Remember when Yale was a Christian school?
This is what happens when American turns away from Judeo-Christian
values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.
Given your atrociously shitty spelling and shallow thinking, I'm
surprised that you've even heard of Yale.
Scooby|4.17.08 @ 1:19PM|#
edited after preview...
Dammit, Taktix (1:13pm), you beat me by a few minutes.
MikeB|4.17.08 @ 1:20PM|#
A few weeks ago I went to the Dallas Museum of Art and saw a
display of plaster blocks randomly stacked. Now, A few nights of
blackout-induced sex is also considered art.
They just keep lowering the bar...
Other Matt|4.17.08 @ 1:21PM|#
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock
value" or to generate controversy.
"I hope it inspires some sort of disclosure. Sure, some people will
be upset with the message and will not agree with it, but it's not
the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone," she
said.
WTF is this "Message" supposed to be?
lunchstealer|4.17.08 @ 1:21PM|#
This is what happens when American turns away from
Judeo-Christian values and endorsas Nihillistic Athiesm.
I mean, say what you will about the merits of a brutally repressive
theocracy, but at least it's an ethos.
Episiarch|4.17.08 @ 1:22PM|#
I give her a "A+" for "creative way of getting massive attention
through offensiveness".
I'm already interested in her next stunt. She really went the extra
mile on this one.
|4.17.08 @ 1:23PM|#
So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US
Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from Yale?
Because this is about on the level.
lunchstealer|4.17.08 @ 1:23PM|#
"I hope it inspires some sort of disclosure. Sure, some
people will be upset with the message and will not agree with it,
but it's not the intention of the piece to scandalize anyone," she
said.
Disclosure? What exactly is supposed to be disclosed? I think this
girl got her ideas and justification from the manitees. Now we know
what they were doing during the WGA strike.
|4.17.08 @ 1:23PM|#
While her art may seem a bit amateurish and bad even, the issues
she is dealing with are not all that radical for the contemporary
art world. Dealing with the body, metaphors about reproduction and
using long form, personal performative techniques are not new and
relevant to artistic discourse in the 21st century. I think she
actually could be a decent artist, just young and unformed.
This person aside, I have to say that I'm always surprised when
otherwise intelligent and informed people (like my fine fellow
H&R readers), who are completely comfortable with
technological, scientific and social progress seem to think that
artists are still painting bowls of fruit in their atelier
somewhere. Whenever I tell anyone that I'm an artist, they say,
"Oh, what kind of things do you paint?" As if the last 150 years
hadn't happened. It's like asking a biochemist how that turning
base metal into gold thing is coming.
Anyway, I think it's important think about this woman's art on its
own terms, and not jump to that old saw of "this isn't even
art."
That said, she seems like she is wrapped very tightly in all this
art school speak and needs to grow out of it. And while this may be
getting some hype in the regular press, the art press is jaded and
has seen this all before and will largely ignore it.
Episiarch|4.17.08 @ 1:23PM|#
"but it's not the intention of the piece to scandalize
anyone"
She also gets an "A+" for "total bullshittery".
|4.17.08 @ 1:24PM|#
On further thought I am actually shocked and offended. Congratulations shocking and offending artist, you have managed to trample on human sensibilities about life. Congratulations.
J|4.17.08 @ 1:24PM|#
I have the very pc view that (very approximately) people = dogs
=/> babies > lizards etc >>> fetuses.
But, killing even something so low for something of so little value
seems wrong.
|4.17.08 @ 1:24PM|#
I can't believe anyone one considers that art.
"They just keep lowering the bar..."
No shit. It reminds me of those people who go on talk/reality shows
and "admit" they are a trannie and slept with their gay
granma.
It's just shock value.
|4.17.08 @ 1:26PM|#
"So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US
Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from Yale?
Because this is about on the level."
ahahahahaha!!!!! We have a winner!
Other Matt|4.17.08 @ 1:26PM|#
That said, she seems like she is wrapped very tightly in all
this art school speak and needs to grow out of it. And while this
may be getting some hype in the regular press, the art press is
jaded and has seen this all before and will largely ignore
it.
So seeing as how I'm like all ignorant of art and the like, can you
answer what the hell her "message" is supposed to be here?
GG|4.17.08 @ 1:27PM|#
A few weeks ago I went to the Dallas Museum of Art and saw a
display of plaster blocks randomly stacked. Now, A few nights of
blackout-induced sex is also considered art.
They just keep lowering the bar...
Google Guillermo Habacuc Vargas for a real treat.
|4.17.08 @ 1:27PM|#
She looks like a reject from Fame. The movie.
Hope she doesn't plan on having any children later on. That womb is
probably pretty battered up by now...
|4.17.08 @ 1:28PM|#
foxhunter | April 17, 2008, 1:19pm | #
[i]Remember when "artists" had to, like, paint and stuff?[/i]
Nope...
Yah, most of us weren't alive then.
|4.17.08 @ 1:28PM|#
Though I believe abortion should be legal, I feel the repeated
intentional impregnation for the purpose of aborting should have
criminal consequences for the bitch (I can't consider her a woman)
and anyone on the Yale staff who approved or knew of this
project.
I hope Karma fucks with her later.
Fluffy|4.17.08 @ 1:28PM|#
Actually, I think this is a very interesting and important piece
of art, precisely because it is so shocking and provocative.
I don't understand what the pro-life guy is complaining about. This
helps him. The subtext of the piece is obvious: if
abortions are not the taking of human life, this piece of art is
not offensive. Or at least, no more offensive than accidentally
getting a glimpse of a used pad in the bathroom garbage can. Those
who are offended by it should re-evaluate their beliefs on the
question of the life of a fetus.
I think this is probably closely related to the Atrios hobbyhorse
of whether we should strive to make abortion "rare", the way many
Democrat politicians say. The only reason to want it to be rare is
if you think it is wrong. This artist seems to be throwing that
idea out there in a plastic form. That shows more thought than 99%
of the art I hear about.
|4.17.08 @ 1:29PM|#
And Bside pops up with a timely reminder that some poor bastard
had to read her critical theory essay on this.
Almost makes me grateful that I still grade lab reports.
|4.17.08 @ 1:30PM|#
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Now I know why she had to be inseminated artificially...
Actually, if she posted an ad offering free sex on Craigslist,
she'd have 200 replies within a couple of hours, if what I've read
on Best of Craigslist bears any relation to reality. 500 replies if
she was good-looking.
Some men will f*ck anything.
|4.17.08 @ 1:31PM|#
The more attention people give her over this, the harder she
wins.
BUT
I can't even imagine how grandly self-absorbed a person would have
to be to contemplate doing such a thing. Also, I am curious about
what her "message" is supposed to be- did she really have anything
to say, or is she just an attention whore?
|4.17.08 @ 1:31PM|#
I thought human was white meat.
Well, technically, a fetus is not fully cooked. They're sort of
pink, if I recall my last feast correctly. Also, beware of getting
worms.
|4.17.08 @ 1:32PM|#
dbcooper -
Not reading her critical theory paper was exactly the motivation I
had not to teach art out of grad school. I work a productive and
economy-enriching corporate job like everybody else.
|4.17.08 @ 1:33PM|#
The misinformation in the LifeNews article masks the best
part!
According to this article
from Yale Daily News, the girl didn't use RU-486 as stated in
LifeNews but an unknown "legal and herbal" abortifacient. And, of
course, because it's from NATURE it's not going to be harmful to
her health!11!!
some dude|4.17.08 @ 1:33PM|#
I say kudos! I'm all for this girl NOT
reproducing.
Yet she did. Several times.
|4.17.08 @ 1:33PM|#
Fluffy,
I'm sorry, but I don't believe she put that much thought into it.
I'm going with "attention whore."
|4.17.08 @ 1:34PM|#
Remember when no-talent ass-joints just used feces and urine to
get attention?
So, does one really need to go to Yale to do this? Seems like you
could pull this stunt at a community college and still get plenty
of notice.
I guess if you're trying to lash out at your wealthy neglectful
parents, this would be the way to do it.
|4.17.08 @ 1:34PM|#
Fairly disgusting and I can't see how it's art, but she's not
killing a human (at least not so early in the pregnancy.) I'm
taking the under.
Regards,
TDL
Bingo|4.17.08 @ 1:34PM|#
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Offer for natural insemination services has been retracted!
|4.17.08 @ 1:35PM|#
I think the "whore" part of "attention whore" goes without
saying, but still...
...the lengths some people go through for their "art". I wouldn't
pay to see it, I'd probably laugh at the people who think it is
worth seeing, and wonder what the hell was going through her mind
to think that it was a good idea, just considering the risks
inherent in the project. To me, it's almost like Van Gogh
displaying the ear he cut off in a museum.
|4.17.08 @ 1:37PM|#
Fluffy,
You're reading WAY too much into this rich-bitch cow who just shit
out a couple of fetus burgers to get a lot of undeserved
attention.
But hey, I'm sure there's room for a Ph.d dissertation in there
somehwere.
|4.17.08 @ 1:38PM|#
@bside: It wasn't intended as a criticism of you, was merely
noting that (esp. from your last paragraph) your post strongly
suggested the possibility.
ps. Your reasons are the same as my buddy's for going back to
selling liquor after his MFA. Well, that and money/booze/pussy.
Ska|4.17.08 @ 1:39PM|#
While anyone who calls this art easily can, I can just as fairly observe that it is an uninteresting, unappealing waste of my time.
|4.17.08 @ 1:41PM|#
squarooticus|4.17.08 @ 1:42PM|#
Yawn... another day, another person doing something revolting that has zero impact on my life, another blog post filled with outraged comments.
|4.17.08 @ 1:43PM|#
Ah SugarFree, that was my favourite too.
No how about some selections from pandagon, feministing, etc etc
etc
|4.17.08 @ 1:44PM|#
dbcooper -
No offense taken. I was echoing your thoughts.
And if it wasn't for art and booze, I'd likely never get any pussy.
Or money.
|4.17.08 @ 1:45PM|#
I suppose not. Charcoal is useful, for one thing.
Some of us consider "the continuation of the human species" and
"the creation of unique individuals" to be useful, but YMMV.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 1:45PM|#
Early line: Over/under at 400 comments.
Oddly, that number would be difficult to make with only joe
providing comments every 2 min. Now that Neil is here it seems well
within reach.
some dude|4.17.08 @ 1:46PM|#
Fluffy's right. This has the potential to be a turning point. Flaunting irrisponsibility may just convince others that some people can't be trusted with the responsibility.
PC|4.17.08 @ 1:47PM|#
It is rather disgusting. Also I am also fairly lukewarm on the
abortion debate, legally I take an anti-Roe v Wade, Pro Choice
position which adheres to federalism, but I am personally pro life.
But if one were zealous about being pro choice, both legally and
personally, I don't see how they cannot be disgusted and annoyed by
these actions because stuff like this hurts their cause.
And as other people have said, this is not art for the sake of art,
it is art for the sake of attention. Creating something only for
shock value is not creative at all in my book. This does not
provoke thought or thinking, it provokes emotional backlash.
|4.17.08 @ 1:47PM|#
Look at it this way... it's probably the widest array of preserved unique human DNA since the panties of Kobe Bryant's accuser a couple years back...
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:47PM|#
Some of us consider "the continuation of the human species"
and "the creation of unique individuals" to be useful, but
YMMV.
You'd be shocked just how little one fetus contributes to the
general propagation of the species, and as for unique individuals
I've seen precious little evidence they exist in any significant
number.
|4.17.08 @ 1:48PM|#
dbcooper,
Feministing has been strangely quiet. They are probably waiting
until they think up a way to blame it all on men.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 1:49PM|#
as for unique individuals I've seen precious little evidence
they exist in any significant number.
So everybody is different, except you? :)
|4.17.08 @ 1:49PM|#
And you'd be shocked just how little one lump of charcoal
contributes to the cooking needs of humanity.
So?
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 1:49PM|#
this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake
of attention.
If art's purpose is to communicate ideas, emotions, or positions,
then all art is art for the sake of attention.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
|4.17.08 @ 1:51PM|#
I've seen precious little evidence they exist in any significant number is mainly a statement about your perceptive ability.
|4.17.08 @ 1:51PM|#
Nevermind, joe. I found out. Just don't make me have to google any of your netspeak again.
|4.17.08 @ 1:53PM|#
PC-
"this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of
attention."
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or trying to
advance your career?
That is a lousy argument on a libertarian message board. I'm
shocked at such anti-free market commie pinko evilness.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 1:53PM|#
This, and the link to the dead dog, presents a viable
question:
Where do you draw the line between art and criminality? Could a guy
murder another guy with a steel dildo and claim it to be art?
|4.17.08 @ 1:53PM|#
I fail to see the value here, but since I see no coercion going on I also fail to see any objection.
|4.17.08 @ 1:53PM|#
Correction: Bad Catholic joe is here.
Catholic joe would never say a fertilized egg isn't a person.
|4.17.08 @ 1:54PM|#
As others have said, art is supposed to stimulate the emotions.
From that perspective alone, she has been successful.
I bet she's voting for Hillary.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 1:54PM|#
Where do you draw the line between art and criminality?
Could a guy murder another guy with a steel dildo and claim it to
be art?
Only as long as it is in a bedroom in certain coastal States.
PC|4.17.08 @ 1:55PM|#
Also since this is Radley post and I am surprised he hasn't, at least I have not seen him or anyone at Reason tackle the FLDS saga going on in Texas, all I can say is what gives? I think a thread about that would be rather diverse and interesting, and more importantly you have hundreds of children whose lives are up in the air because of a alleged case of abuse from one person. If Reason has done something on this somebody please correct me, but Reason is really dropping the ball on this one and it will be noted, especially since I was going to subscribe after tax day but the silence makes me think that my money would be better spent elsewhere. I don't even have to agree with the article, I would just like to see it covered because it is an important story.
|4.17.08 @ 1:55PM|#
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or
trying to advance your career?
Hey, we're all for markets here. If you can find out a way to sell
diahrrea-sicles, more power to you. Doesn't mean we don't have an
opinion on shitsticks, though.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 1:55PM|#
Red Meat for H&R Commenters
Wouldn't this be the latest "other white meat"?
shecky|4.17.08 @ 1:56PM|#
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of
the things she claimed. All it takes is the suggestion, and heads
explode. Witness the starved dog project.
I think the self mutilator is a better shock art gag. At least it's
more difficult to fake amputations.
|4.17.08 @ 1:56PM|#
Catholic joe would never say a fertilized egg isn't a
person.
Granted, depends on what a person is... not referring to the egg,
I'm referring to the egg carrier.
|4.17.08 @ 1:58PM|#
Molly Clark-Barol, a Yale student and commenter on the YDH's website, sums up Shvarts's egocentrism better than I could:
"Congratulations, Aliza Shvarts '08: you have single-handedly trivialized not only an entire generation and a half's fight to gain and retain the right to choose, through harassment and against massive odds, but also history of women's struggles, not only politically, but with the emotional, moral, and spiritual impacts of the choice to terminate a pregnancy. You also spit upon every couple who has tried, and failed, sometimes repeatedly, to have children. it is the emotional impact of these struggles, emotional impact that you shamelessly exploit, not explore, in your senior project."
PC|4.17.08 @ 1:59PM|#
"Bside,
"this is not art for the sake of art, it is art for the sake of
attention."
Is there something wrong with trying to get attention? Or trying to
advance your career?
That is a lousy argument on a libertarian message board. I'm
shocked at such anti-free market commie pinko evilness."
When did I ever say that she should be silenced via the authorities
or censored? She obviously shouldn't be subsidized in any way.
Libertarians can make value judgements.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 1:59PM|#
Also since this is Radley post and I am surprised he hasn't,
at least I have not seen him or anyone at Reason tackle the FLDS
saga going on in Texas, all I can say is what gives?
I guess they are getting the same umbrella of protection that Sen.
Jim Webb and his staff got for the 'toting around a pistol and ammo
in DC without a license' episode.
LarryA|4.17.08 @ 1:59PM|#
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock
value" or to generate controversy. "I hope it inspires some sort of
disclosure. Sure, some people will be upset with the message and
will not agree with it, but it's not the intention of the piece to
scandalize anyone," she said.
If this was her aim, she failed. Give her an F.
|4.17.08 @ 2:00PM|#
Oops, the entirety of my 1:58 post is from the linked site- I didn't make it clear I'm not the one who's speaking. My bad.
old geezer|4.17.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Molly Clark-Barol, a Yale student and commenter on the YDH's
website, sums up Shvarts's egocentrism better than I could:
"Congratulations, Aliza Shvarts '08: you have single-handedly
trivialized not only an entire generation and a half's fight to
gain and retain the right to choose, through harassment and against
massive odds, but also history of women's struggles, not only
politically, but with the emotional, moral, and spiritual impacts
of the choice to terminate a pregnancy. You also spit upon every
couple who has tried, and failed, sometimes repeatedly, to have
children. it is the emotional impact of these struggles, emotional
impact that you shamelessly exploit, not explore, in your senior
project."
Well Said
The Democratic Republican|4.17.08 @ 2:01PM|#
Damn it, stop messing with joe -- he and I are on the same team
for once.
You don't have to be Catholic to believe that this perverse.
The Owner\'s Manual|4.17.08 @ 2:02PM|#
Now I know why she had to be inseminated
artificially...
I'd hit it.
|4.17.08 @ 2:03PM|#
Shecky's right. The tip-off is the "artificially inseminated"
part.
Artificial insemination is fairly complicated and requires, at
least, a team of doctors. Have we heard from this team of
doctors?
It seems far more likely that she has either a "keeper" (google it)
or some hatpins along with an insight into what would totally get
people yelling.
If that's the case, she's one of the most brilliant artists since
Frank Zappa.
|4.17.08 @ 2:03PM|#
SugarFree, aren't you familiar with the following now?
1. No womyn are free to make rational decisions in our patriarchy
ruled slave society
2. ?
3. Men's fault.
I suspect they're looking for their "smoking gun." Something like a
woman (what's the singular of womyn?) once had an abortion and then
said it was because her boyfriend wanted her to. This undeniably
establishes the coercive link, and you frat-boy, douche bag, white,
male, patrician, date-rapists can't wriggle your way out of it this
time.
etc etc etc
ps. That's more of a general thing, not characterising Feministing
in particular.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 2:04PM|#
You don't have to be Catholic to believe that this
perverse.
Yea, even some of us not-so-bitter-any-more Baptists share that
view.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 2:06PM|#
I had an ex who wanted to copulate during her menstruation over a canvas for an art project. All fetus killing aside, we ended up just defiling several classrooms after class hours, no blood involved...
|4.17.08 @ 2:06PM|#
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any
of the things she claimed.
Err, yep. But this is more fun.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 2:08PM|#
Artificial insemination is fairly complicated and requires,
at least, a team of doctors. Have we heard from this team of
doctors?
There was a successful case not so long ago (within the last decade
or so) that used two high-tech tools: a calendar and a turkey
baster. And no professional help. I'm too lazy to look it up.
Darwin|4.17.08 @ 2:09PM|#
With any luck she will have dramatically reduced the probability of carrying a pregnancy to full term in the future.
|4.17.08 @ 2:12PM|#
PC -
Of course you can make value judgments. Sounds like her work kind
of sucks. Fine.
But to criticize her for doing it for attention is just a rotten
argument from a lib perspective. It also misses the point entirely.
The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it for the
attention. The question really is, is it good art? Does it succeed
in doing what it sets out to do? Is it beautiful or thought
provoking? Is it new or original? I'm not talking about this woman;
these are the basic questions to ask when assessing a work of art.
Or anything else for that matter.
|4.17.08 @ 2:13PM|#
dbcooper,
It's really more of feministing thing, I think. They don't care for
ambiguity. It's sort of like Lifetime Mystery Movies. What's the
mystery? The guy did it. Or sometimes the younger woman.
Feministing is loath to even bring a subject up until they have a
clear black hat.
Dave W.|4.17.08 @ 2:13PM|#
How old were the zygotes / embryos / fetuses / whatever at termination. I think that is what matters most and is not immediately clear here.
dantealiegri|4.17.08 @ 2:16PM|#
I think in terms of art, this does what Fluffy suggests, and
draws the line in black and white in a way no manner of discussion
can.
For example:
For abortions I think if someone makes a mistake and needs an
abortion, go for it.
This, however, I think is sick.
For that reason, I think it is good 'art' in some sense of the
word.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 2:18PM|#
Feministing is loath to even bring a subject up until they
have a clear black hat.
And here I was thinking that the instinct of blame and scapegoating
were all patriarchially-constructed male-dominant values.
|4.17.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Shvarts mixed Vaseline with the blood to prevent it from
drying and placed the blood between sheets of plastic wrapped
around the cube that hung from the ceiling.
For a female artist trying to push the envelope, her method seems a
bit, well, domestic. Sort of a lurid Martha Stewart Living.
|4.17.08 @ 2:19PM|#
Shit, Feministing still hasn't picked this one up
yet.
If they do, I'll read it. I still think it never happened.
|4.17.08 @ 2:20PM|#
BTW, here's the little hipster:
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
She's kind of cute.
Paul|4.17.08 @ 2:20PM|#
When are we allowed to toss out the "artist" moniker, and just call it "gross"?
Benway|4.17.08 @ 2:21PM|#
Having an abortion is a little like using heroin. Neither
activity ought to be illegal, nor need anyone feel ashamed about
doing it, no matter what their prudish busybody neighbors
think.
But to flaunt either one in public, for the sake of publicity, is
more than a little distasteful.
To then call it art is an insult to artists that actually take time
to perfect their craft.
And to claim that it's not intended to scandalize anyone is obvious
bullshit.
This sort of art is a perfect illustration of the principle that
not everything permissible ought to be done. I sincerely hope she
makes the most of her 15 minutes, because this is sort of stunt
that's likely to follow her for the remainder of her life.
|4.17.08 @ 2:23PM|#
[W]hat's the singular of womyn?
There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective, strong in their unity.
Paul|4.17.08 @ 2:23PM|#
She's kind of cute.
No, she looks like the typical, unattractive shrill feminist with
bad hair and a nasally, annoying voice. She'll do well in life. I
see a future position as a regular NPR contributor.
|4.17.08 @ 2:25PM|#
The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it
for the attention.
Not every person who wants to create art wants attention. For
example, I could care less if you or anyone else reads anything I
have ever written; I do it for the joy of the act (that and the
fact that I probably suck is what will keep you from reading
it).
|4.17.08 @ 2:26PM|#
There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective,
strong in their unity.
Also see: Betty Crocker convention.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 2:27PM|#
I doubt this actually happened myself, but if it did, I imagine
she said she was "artificially inseminated" simply to shield the
"donor" from retribution.
I also think she'll get her just desserts on this one. Try sleeping
or cramming for a test with 50 fundie pro-lifers chanting outside
of you dorm, 24/7.
|4.17.08 @ 2:27PM|#
Paul-
"When are we allowed to toss out the "artist" moniker, and just
call it "gross?"
You are suggesting that these things are mutually exclusive?
zoot allures|4.17.08 @ 2:28PM|#
I'm with those who say they don't completely buy this. More
likely she used that "Keeper" thingy Jaybird mentioned than
actually inseminated herself.
I do have to say, though, it is perverse. And disturbing indeed if
she actually did this. Yale student Molly Clark-Barol's response
was spot on, having known a few couples have tried desperately to
conceive.
|4.17.08 @ 2:29PM|#
"Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any of
the things she claimed. All it takes is the suggestion, and heads
explode."
Sure, and that also bothers me. Should I decide to take my used
bloddy tampons and hang them on a Christmas tree, would that be
art?
I suppose it could be argued that the message would be womanhood
(virginity/whore/abortion/motherhood) vs Christianity.
hey, maybe I can get a degree from Yale too! :)
|4.17.08 @ 2:31PM|#
Should I decide to take my used bloddy tampons and hang them
on a Christmas tree, would that be art?
Hmmm.. (*scratches chin*) I believe this piece to be an ontological
statement using minimal ideograms.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:33PM|#
What LMOP said, first crack out of the box,
Shvarts is not only full of shit, she is lying. Otherwise the
artwork would be on display in her very private garage.
BTW, I've seen what a miscarriage looks like. Not pleasant.
|4.17.08 @ 2:33PM|#
The guy who paints portraits of puppies in oils is doing it
for the attention.
I paint with oils. It relaxes me and keeps me from drinking too
much. If no one sees my work, well they're probably better off.
Current politics has me painting less, drinking more.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:34PM|#
There is no singular for womyn. Womyn are a collective,
strong in their unity.
Also see: Betty Crocker convention.
And, Iron My Shirt!
xxx|4.17.08 @ 2:36PM|#
what a sociopath she is. This sort of thing should be illegal. To artifically inseminate yourself for the purpose of having an abortion is sick and demented.
TallDave|4.17.08 @ 2:36PM|#
Shvarts said she did not intend the project to have "shock
value" or to generate controversy.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Aliza Shvarts says she artificially inseminated
herself
She couldn't even get laid? Sheesh.
This woman has Issues.
|4.17.08 @ 2:36PM|#
"Un ejemplo del especie inferior."
Lo correcto es decir: "un ejemplo de LA especie inferior"
Me sorprende que tu intelecto superior no haya capatado semejante
error...
Bronwyn|4.17.08 @ 2:38PM|#
Since somebody (or somebodies, I didn't read the thread in
toto) brought it up here, too, I'll reiterate my comment from
TheAgitator thread. To wit:
Artificial insemination of a perfectly fertile woman requires
little more than a turkey baster, reasonably good timing and a
freshly deposited/thawed sperm sample.
It's how cows are inseminated all the time and (yes, this is a
woman saying this), women need not be much different in this
regard.
And TWC, my husband's version is, "bitch, bring me a beer! And
where's my chicken pot pie?"
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 2:38PM|#
Try sleeping or cramming for a test with 50 fundie
pro-lifers chanting outside of you dorm, 24/7.
Dude, the fundie pro-lifers *are* the final exam. The only people
who should be pissed about that part are her *neighbors*.
TallDave|4.17.08 @ 2:38PM|#
I have to wonder though: what the hell is the point?
She doesn't seem to be pro-life. It's certainly not going to appeal
to pro-choice people.
Politically, I'm going with "shit nuts."
|4.17.08 @ 2:39PM|#
Attention seeking ballbag she be. Wake me up when they're hacking limbs of the homeless.
|4.17.08 @ 2:39PM|#
Lifenews.com: Sweet job on teh jurnalizms. I found this absolute
gem from their website:
"Lyon, France (LifeNews.com) -- A study by a
French doctor using an abortion drug to treat pregnant women with
arthritis shows that the drug is dangerous to their unborn
children."
C'mon, that's an awesome lede, no?
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:40PM|#
She couldn't even get laid?
Did you see the photo, Tall?
She's got black marks on her cheeks from chasing cars and biting
tires. I wouldn't do her, not even with yours.
Actually, I've seen worse, but still it's fun to make fun of her
for being ugly.
|4.17.08 @ 2:41PM|#
This would look great hanging over my new couch! I've done the den in reds and golds...
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:43PM|#
And TWC, my husband's version is, "bitch, bring me a beer!
And where's my chicken pot pie?"
Ya know what you tell a woman with two black eyes? Nuthin', ya
already done tole her twice.
Jesus Chrysler, that's so bad.....
|4.17.08 @ 2:43PM|#
A little googling reveals:
The Ming Period, 1999
There are periods of world history-large, expansive, extremely
important and eventful times in human existence-that I will never
remember, yet for as long as I live, I won't forget the Ming
Dynasty, for it was to the noise of their clashing swords that I
became a woman. I was in seventh grade, age 13, and we were
watching a movie on Chinese history. While the Mings were in the
midst of expelling the Mongols, I began to feel this unearthly pain
in my lower abdomen.
We were all sitting on the floor of the classroom to watch the
movie and I remember attempting to discreetly lie on my belly in
hopes that it might go away. Facedown in the scratchy carpet, I
tried to figure out was happening to me. My two guesses were 1)
appendicitis, and 2) my period. As the Mings were reforming the
Chinese Civil Service Examinations, I weighed my options: if it was
appendicitis, then either I would have to go to the hospital, or
just die, and not have to come back to school in either instance.
Of course, if I had gotten my period, then that was another
matter-that meant a lot more.
Back in the days of middle school, at least at my middle school,
getting one's period was akin to a competitive sport. Everyone knew
who had theirs already; everyone couldn't wait to join their ranks
in womanhood. My best friend at the time who I had known since
preschool had gotten hers a couple months earlier, and I remember
sitting jealously in my living room as my mother congratulated her
and explained to her womanhood, what it meant to grow up, and the
finer points of the tampon vs. pad debate.
I was very excited, lying there in the carpet, at the notion that
now it might be my turn. I ended up sticking it out for the whole
film, which I still feel is quite an accomplishment-it was a very
long movie, there is a lot that happened in 14th century China.
After a trip to the girls' bathroom and a harrowing experience with
the pad dispenser, I got on the school bus to go home, excited to
tell my mother the news. I expected a lot from that talk. I
expected secrets to be revealed, meanings to be exposed, and to
emerge somehow closer to my mother and her adult world. I remember
beaming as she sat me down on her bed with a package of pads and
launched into a similar version of the talk she had given my
friend. But about five or ten minutes into it, her then-boyfriend
got home from work and walked into the bedroom. She looked at me,
handed me the package, and nothing more was said. My first period
remained an event shared only by the Mings and me.
-Aliza Shvarts, Los Angeles, CA
Aliza is an Art major at Yale
TallDave|4.17.08 @ 2:46PM|#
I won't forget the Ming Dynasty, for it was to the noise of
their clashing swords that I became a
woman.
Wow, I thought this was going somewhere entirely different.
I'm skeptical she's ever "become a woman."
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:46PM|#
Tall One: The photo link is upthread. Oh this is easier:
http://cache.jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
Parachuter:
Bet her Mom is soooo oooohh proud!
|4.17.08 @ 2:48PM|#
I wonder if she is taking commissions. I would like to see something in poop, or bile, for the game room.
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 2:48PM|#
Well, she's not a *terrible* writer. Thanks for the not-quite-illuminating Google gold, DB.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 2:48PM|#
XXX, sociopath, sure, illegal? I dunno. If it was 100 years ago
we could just run her out of town. But now we're civilized.
Bronwyn, loved the family photo.
JLE|4.17.08 @ 2:49PM|#
It's too literal to be art. Art is supposed to be representation
of reality rather than intentional enactment of that reality.
Otherwise, it's just life.
RU486 happens. That's life, not art.
TallDave|4.17.08 @ 2:49PM|#
You know the difference between a pregnant woman and a light
bulb?
You can't put RU-486 in a light bulb.
|4.17.08 @ 2:49PM|#
TWC, one can only imagine.
Damn, this is just what I needed with a progress report distracting
me from the web.
Timmy Mac|4.17.08 @ 2:50PM|#
My prediction? In a week or so, she will "reveal" that it was all a fake, and the "art" was really about the nature of controvery in the modern age or some such ting.
Mad Max|4.17.08 @ 2:51PM|#
"This woman has Issues."
What makes you jump so hastily to *that* conclusion?
Look, even though I'm pro-life, I would like to offer some
disinterested advice to the pro-abortion crowd: Don't repudiate
this eloquent artist - affirm her work and emulate it! Only by
confonting sexist/patriarchai/chauvinist Amerikkka will you be able
to make them truly convert to your viewpoint.
|4.17.08 @ 2:52PM|#
Does it occur to anyone that she didn't even have to do any
of the things she claimed.
If the raison d/etre of your "art" is shock, and the shock
comes only from your emissions containing actual fertilized ova, I
think we need some kind of proof that said ova were actually
present.
PC|4.17.08 @ 2:53PM|#
bside | April 17, 2008, 2:12pm | #
Yes in some cases drawing attention is an important aspect to
achieve a goal, but it is usually done to advertise a certain
product or service that possesses some other value, which is an
aspect of marketing. Shitting on a cross or splattering fetus parts
on a canvas doesn't strike me as art, it merely provokes an
emotional backlash. I didn't think that the "art" was very
artistic, all I saw was shock value. That strikes me as shallow and
talentless. Many works of art should grab attention, a few are more
subtle and hide their profundity, but it should do more than just
grab attention only. There are parts to a whole when discussing
most things and regarding art as you somewhat elaborated on.
Concerning the artistic merit of this lady and her discharge, the
other parts of the whole of art as missing. The hypothetical man
creating an image of a dog sounds like he is making art that serves
a purpose, of a much more utilitarian nature, to give someone
pleasure and to cover up empty space. Now I do not see an image of
a dog as profound art but art nonetheless.
Episiarch|4.17.08 @ 2:53PM|#
I'd like to point out that:
1. Whether she is an attention whore or, as Fluffy (sort of)
contends, she did it to highlight the line between being ok with
abortion and not...is irrelevant. Because even if she is just an
attention whore, she still inadvertently highlighted that
line.
2. If you have no problem with abortion, you should not have a
problem with this. Morgan Spurlock abused his body for
SuperSize Me; was that wrong too?
3. I have zero problem with what she did. It's her body, she can
abuse it at will.
(I actually dig just how disgusting it all is--it really appeals to
my horror movie sensibilities)
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 2:54PM|#
TWC,
Shvarts is not only full of shit, she is lying. Otherwise the
artwork would be on display in her very private garage.
If she becomes a Yale grad and she shows a skill for lying, then
she will probably be on the staff of The New Republic for
her first "real" job.
Timmy Mac|4.17.08 @ 2:58PM|#
Does it surprise anyone that she is from L.A.?
Not after I saw her dressed in Poison's hand-me downs, it
doesn't.
|4.17.08 @ 3:00PM|#
It's not art. It's entertainment. I think it's high time for the ultimate act of gross-out fun times : Dead Baby Pudding.
Nick_M|4.17.08 @ 3:01PM|#
The article said that the installation included video of the miscarriages. If that means that the viewer is treated to the miscarriages actually happening, I suppose that would be proof she's not lying.
Neil|4.17.08 @ 3:07PM|#
"If she becomes a Yale grad and she shows a skill for lying,
then she will probably be on the staff of The New Republic for her
first "real" job."
LOL Montag wins the thread yet again!!
Bronwyn|4.17.08 @ 3:09PM|#
As someone who experienced a miscarriage at 8* weeks, I can tell
you it isn't pretty and it's exceptionally painful.
I wonder how long she allowed these pregnancies to go before she
induced the abortions.
If she waited 10 or 12 weeks*, there would be something visibly
embryonic in the efflux. Earlier than that, and it's pretty much
nothing more than a massively messy and painful period.
To the naked eye, anyway.
*LMP weeks, subtract two if you want fetal age.
|4.17.08 @ 3:09PM|#
Just another case of Ivy League plagiarism...
Aliza Shvarts stole my work!!!
http://moxie.nu/moveabletype/archives/003837.php
Bingo|4.17.08 @ 3:14PM|#
So since the consensus by some folks is that this is art, what
isn't art?
Because maybe I can get a performance art grant for sitting on my
ass refreshing HnR.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 3:14PM|#
She looks like her closet threw up on her.
Maybe it is just a ploy to get on What not to Wear? Or
Geraldo at Large?
|4.17.08 @ 3:14PM|#
Timmy Mac | April 17, 2008, 2:50pm | #
My prediction? In a week or so, she will "reveal" that it was all a
fake, and the "art" was really about the nature of controvery in
the modern age or some such ting.
I think you nailed it. The controversy that is being generated will
be the "real" art project. Kind of a meta-performance art piece.
And she will then be hailed for her genius, go on to get her MFA,
get hired on Yale's faculty, get tenure, and brainwash a whole new
brood of narcissistic littles putzes and release them upon the
world.
|4.17.08 @ 3:15PM|#
Because maybe I can get a performance art grant for sitting
on my ass refreshing HnR.
Well shit, that's what my grant's paying for right now.
shecky|4.17.08 @ 3:18PM|#
If you have no problem with abortion, you should not have a
problem with this.
Safe, legal, and rare. Yeah, I can see lots of pro choice
folks being upset by this.
Art/entertainment, is there necessarily a difference?
I think it's a pretty good stunt, if for no other reason that it's
so easy to fake, and still jerk around all the usual suspects.
Truly shocking things were a dime a dozen, and the bottom has
fallen out of the market.
The article said that the installation included video of the
miscarriages. If that means that the viewer is treated to the
miscarriages actually happening, I suppose that would be proof
she's not lying.
How does anyone know it wasn't just a period? Or even better, more
along the lines of the worlds longest turd. (NSFW)
http://intermaweb.net/index.php/2005/10/29/world-record-4-peristaltic-action/
|4.17.08 @ 3:18PM|#
Bingo -
What is or isn't art is a pretty useless question. It doesn't get
you anywhere. If she intends it as art, then it's art. Big deal.
Then what? The real question is, is it any good? That can be
answered with some level of certainty and actually has a point.
|4.17.08 @ 3:24PM|#
So if I placed a flaming bag of poo on the steps of the US
Capitol to send a "message" could I get a diploma from
Yale?
No, but if you get a bunch of drunken friends together at a
national monument to do the Charleston, you can foment a worldwide
political movement against petty tyranny.
|4.17.08 @ 3:26PM|#
"boys used
to tell me I looked like an "ugly man" in 7th grade b/c I had short
hair, small breasts and didn't shave my legs."
And things have changed how?
|4.17.08 @ 3:27PM|#
In all seriousness . . . this is lame. Just another dipshit femicommie trying to score brownie points with the Ivy League radicals. Alas, this is our system of higher education.
|4.17.08 @ 3:33PM|#
Shit. We're not even going to make it to 300. This is the real shameful comment on our culture in moral decline.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 3:35PM|#
Wa going pretty strong until I pointed out that joe/Neil thing. Sorry guys.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 3:38PM|#
ed,
But think of the children (mixed with batin' juice and wrapped in
plastic).
|4.17.08 @ 3:39PM|#
This reminds me of more feminist artwork I saw at a recent local
art opening this past weekend. One of the two exhibiting artists
did all of her artwork around feminist-centered themes. There was a
sculpture of a bloody aborted fetus hanging in some sort of cloth
basked from the ceiling. That kind of squicked me. The thing that
really annoyed me though was her rape bedsheets -- she had an
entire bed laid out with sheets and pillowcases, etc. that she
designed herself. The pattern was this frantic writing that said
something like (I can't remember exactly, but it was something
like): "pleading, crying, struggling, begging for death" all over
the sheets. It angered me on a number of levels. First of all, the
other artist who was exhibiting (whose work was all very good), who
was showing my friend and I around the show, had said that the
artist had never herself been raped. So firstly, it wasn't art
about personal experience or catharsis or anything. Second of all,
where does someone who hasn't experienced a rape get off suggesting
that death would be preferable to surviving a rape? The whole piece
just stank of ignorance to me. Thirdly, rape is not a fucking color
scheme for bedsheets. My overall impression of the artist was that
she is a total dumbass.
Just something that Shvartz's artwork reminded me of.
Bronwyn|4.17.08 @ 3:42PM|#
"pleading, crying, struggling, begging for death"
Yeah, that doesn't ring a bell for me, either.
Brandybuck|4.17.08 @ 3:42PM|#
Brandybuck's Rules of Life # 17: Deliberately offending people is always a stupid. There is a point beyond which even the most enlightened soul is so offended that he won't bother to lift a finger to defend you from the rampaging crowd.
Episiarch|4.17.08 @ 3:44PM|#
Guy I'm just happy you noticed me!!
OMG Neil you are the best.
Guy has crush on Neil and vice versa--time for a bromance.
|4.17.08 @ 3:45PM|#
Was she wearing one of these t-shirts Smacky?
http://gawker.com/5005036/rape-t+shirt-could-be-even-bigger-than-abortion-t+shirt
Neil|4.17.08 @ 3:45PM|#
Episiarch I meant that in the most manly, straight, heterosexual way possible. So get your mind out of the gutter!!
|4.17.08 @ 3:47PM|#
I think "Go artificially inseminate yourself" should be added to the American lexicon.
|4.17.08 @ 3:48PM|#
dbcooper,
No, that's the thing. The other exhibiting artist, who I am pretty
sure is friends with the feminist artist, said that the feminist
artist had said herself that she had no sexual abuse or rape in her
personal history. I think maybe she just listens to too much Tori
Amos.
|4.17.08 @ 3:49PM|#
Guy has crush on Neil and vice versa--time for a
bromance.
Place your bets on who plays the part of salad-tosser.
Neil|4.17.08 @ 3:49PM|#
"Neil = Guy fanboi?"
If by that you mean my day isnt complete until I see his witty,
inciteful comments here or read his blog, then yes I am.
|4.17.08 @ 3:51PM|#
If she becomes a Yale grad and she shows a skill for lying,
then she will probably be on the staff of The New Republic for her
first "real" job.
Yale grad, skilled liar. Does that remind you of anybody?
|4.17.08 @ 3:51PM|#
According to my search, only one commenter prior to me has
invoked the word "hoax".
That is almost embarrassing as the BSG circle-jerk, or something
Michael Young excreted here.
This is not H&R's finest hour/day.
|4.17.08 @ 3:52PM|#
Smacky, I think the person who made that t-shirt hadn't suffered
any sexual abuse etc either, so was just keeping in that general
theme.
BTW, Dresden Dolls are the new Tori Amos. Ughh.
Episiarch|4.17.08 @ 3:53PM|#
OK, that's it, I'm gonna guess. Neil is VikingMoose doing a new project for The URKOBOLD.
yetanothercomment|4.17.08 @ 3:57PM|#
In the words of Mr. Vonnegut - "just because something can reproduce, doesn't mean it should" - Hocus Pocus
Bronwyn|4.17.08 @ 3:59PM|#
Hey, it could be a hoax. All I'm saying is that it's a credible
story.
And either way, the "artist" is still sick.
|4.17.08 @ 4:00PM|#
Episiarch I meant that in the most manly, straight,
heterosexual way possible. So get your mind out of the
gutter!!
Closeted queers often act hyper masculine with the attendant gay
bashing.
Got a wide stance there, Neil?
Elemenope|4.17.08 @ 4:03PM|#
BTW, Dresden Dolls are the new Tori Amos. Ughh.
But I *like* Tori Amos.
Srsly.
Butts Wagner|4.17.08 @ 4:11PM|#
I have yet to read a comment, but what do the dresden dolls and tori amos have to do with this story?
|4.17.08 @ 4:22PM|#
Butts Wagner,
While I enjoy some of Tori Amos' songs, she does tend to draw the
perpetual-victim crowd as fans of her music. Hence my snarky
comment.
|4.17.08 @ 4:22PM|#
I nominate as thread winner the comment by "some dude" at 1:33. I almost didn't get it at first.
The Wine Commonsewer|4.17.08 @ 4:26PM|#
Does it surprise anyone that she is from L.A.
Hey! Welch is from LA.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 4:28PM|#
Stuck at 241. Are you guys afraid of recycling the old
material?
Here, I will mention my journal, for the first time in ages, so I
can be accused of doing it every 5 min.
At least 10 posts from now I will have a new stimulus package that
Fluffy will love.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 4:36PM|#
According to my search, only one commenter prior to me has
invoked the word "hoax".
There's other way to say it's a hoax, like I don't really believe
it. If fact, I actually said I don't really believe it a long while
go.
Huh.
Head on back to Troll College, as you may be late for
Intellectually Bankrupt Insults 101.
Taktix®|4.17.08 @ 4:38PM|#
I have yet to read a comment, but what do the dresden dolls
and tori amos have to do with this story?
How'd you know they came up if you hadn't read a comment? Hmm?
Butts Wagner|4.17.08 @ 4:49PM|#
How'd you know they came up if you hadn't read a comment?
Hmm?
*self-induces abortion from thread*
stephen the goldberger|4.17.08 @ 4:54PM|#
All this will do is embolden pro-lifers who will use it as a
political football.
In any case if i were to say her art project had a point it would
be "If fetuses aren't human beings, then whats the big deal anyway?
Why do you care if I abort some children?"
Which raises some interesting questions, but I'm probably giving
her way too much credit.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 4:59PM|#
All this will do is embolden pro-lifers who will use it as a
political football.
That football is covered in innocent human skin sir!
|4.17.08 @ 5:02PM|#
Also, has anyone commented on the thread title yet? Was this a sick pun by none other than innocent Radley Balko? tsk, tsk
|4.17.08 @ 5:09PM|#
A consenting adult. Preggers through legal means. Used a legal
drug to produce a legal conclusion. Practiced freedom of speech or
expression or whatever. That only leaves me to pray for the sins
and offer the sinner the love of Christ.
my work here is done.
rammage|4.17.08 @ 5:43PM|#
Way to go, Brother Ben! Because if the government tells us something is moral and legal, then - by god - it is! There should be no more discussion on this very legal and very moral topic.
Tacos mmm...|4.17.08 @ 5:52PM|#
Thank you brotherben. That was beautiful.
It's actually pretty condescending.
|4.17.08 @ 5:55PM|#
The actions were within the law. The morality of it is determined simply by each and every one of us based on our beliefs. The beliefs we chose. Hence my prayer for the woman. People of certain beliefs and morals will applaud what she did. As a christian, my duty is to pray for the sinners and perhaps they will be saved and turn from their wicked ways. My duty does not include changing the laws to suit my moral beliefs. Everyone has free will, not just me. I find it necessary to respect the law of the land. Leaving to Caesar what is his and all that.
Kolohe|4.17.08 @ 6:12PM|#
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/2008/04/alizashvarts41708.jpg
I'd hit it.
Am I a bad person? Or just do not have good taste?
GG|4.17.08 @ 6:46PM|#
I'm guessing there's a Yale psych student insinuating this nutty broad and her (pseudo?)abortion pseudoart into their thesis on Histrionic Personality Disorder this very minute.
|4.17.08 @ 7:21PM|#
Yep, faked:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/17/AR2008041702519.html
SIV|4.17.08 @ 7:30PM|#
I didn't have to read more than the first paragraph of the
linked piece to "call fake".
I have no issue with abortion when self-induced.
"Drug legalization" would solve the pro-life/pro-baby-killing
argument. Does any pro-lifer argue for charging the mother with
murdering her child?
shecky|4.17.08 @ 8:12PM|#
OK. It was as I expected.
To those (not so much here, but widespread elsewhere) who think
she'll be justifiably criticized/hounded/threatened/injured for
this, how is it different than publishing a cartoon Muhammad,
yanking the chains of religious folks around the world, simply for
the sake of yanking their chains?
zoltan|4.17.08 @ 9:26PM|#
I had an ex who wanted to copulate during her menstruation
over a canvas for an art project. All fetus killing aside, we ended
up just defiling several classrooms after class hours, no blood
involved...
If you were having sex with a woman who was menstruating, there
would be no fetus to kill...
|4.17.08 @ 9:55PM|#
I have a button from Burning Man that is perfect for
her...
Just because no one understands you,
doesn't mean you are an artist.
NP|4.17.08 @ 11:06PM|#
Shvartz, an arts major, told the Yale Daily: "I believe
strongly that art should be a medium for politics and ideologies,
not just a commodity. I think that I'm creating a project that
lives up to the standard of what art is supposed to be."
Oh, so another fifth-rate Gorky/Shaw ersatz. Great. Just what the
world needs.
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 11:15PM|#
To those (not so much here, but widespread elsewhere) who
think she'll be justifiably criticized/hounded/threatened/injured
for this, how is it different than publishing a cartoon Muhammad,
yanking the chains of religious folks around the world, simply for
the sake of yanking their chains?
In this case, she probably has much more to fear from her own
"kind" than from any "fundie"?
Guy Montag|4.17.08 @ 11:24PM|#
Thank you dbcooper and Radley with your update.
From the mysterious future in the WP:
In a statement yesterday, Yale spokeswoman Helaine Klasky said:
"Ms. Shvarts . . . stated to three senior Yale University officials
today, including two deans, that she did not impregnate herself and
that she did not induce any miscarriages. The entire project is an
art piece, a creative fiction designed to draw attention to the
ambiguity surrounding form and function of a woman's body.
"She is an artist and has the right to express herself through
performance art.
"Had these acts been real, they would have violated basic ethical
standards and raised serious mental and physical health
concerns."
Shvartz, an arts major, told the Yale Daily: "I believe strongly
that art should be a medium for politics and ideologies, not just a
commodity. I think that I'm creating a project that lives up to the
standard of what art is supposed to be."
Pointing out the obvious: Liber Arts Major
NP|4.17.08 @ 11:39PM|#
From the WaPo piece:
"...she wanted to provoke debate about the relationship between art
and the human body but that the intention of the piece was not to
scandalize anyone."
Well, well, well. Where do I start? First she spouts the nonsense
that "art should be a medium for politics and ideologies, not just
a commodity"--actually, dear, art by definition is a
commodity, unless you happen to believe the even more head-spinning
nonsense that there can be art without a consumer or an
audience--and then she says she wanted her aborted (fill in
whatever pun you want) debate without the accompanying scandal.
IOW, she claims to be a performance artist without knowing what
performance art is. Honey, let me tell you something: When the art
of your performance does not please or challenge our perception but
only your sincere pretensions, you're not even a clown--you're a
fool. Just be sure to stay in your private school; we taxpayers
deserve better returns on our precious time, attention and
investment.
|4.18.08 @ 12:06AM|#
Ok, so this piece of art wasn't real.
But the rape bedsheets were!
I should take pictures of the rape-themed bed and post them, but I
doubt they'd allow cameras in the art gallery.
|4.18.08 @ 12:33AM|#
How appalling is it that so many dopes here actually fell for
this shit?
No wonder this country--no, the world--is so fucked.
Bronwyn|4.18.08 @ 8:46AM|#
Like I said, even as a hoax, she's still a sick little
puppy.
Her story was perfectly plausible. I think that, more than general
credulity, is the more frightening indicator of civilization's
fucked-itude.
|4.18.08 @ 9:34AM|#
It was not plausible at all, which any number of people pointed
out before the hoax was disclosed.
Just walk away in embarrassed silence, people.
Bronwyn|4.18.08 @ 10:02AM|#
*sigh*
Henry. I discussed how easy it is to artificially inseminate a
perfectly fertile woman - it's as easy as a turkey baster and good
timing. Just like it's done with cows.
Art. Insem. only grows complicated when the involved parties are
not so ripe, so to speak.
That she inseminated herself was plausible.
That she aborted on her own is also plausible. Women have been
doing so with various herbal (and now chemical) concoctions for
millenia.
Oh, forget it. It's like talking to a wall.
(and I'm sure you feel the same way)
GG|4.18.08 @ 10:09AM|#
UPDATE 2: University calls
art project a fiction; Shvarts '08 disputes Yale's claim
Shvarts stood by her project, calling the University's statement "ultimately inaccurate."
... Shvarts reiterated Thursday that she repeatedly use[d] a needleless syringe to insert semen into herself. At the end of her menstrual cycle, she took abortifacient herbs to induce bleeding, she said. She said she does not know whether or not she was ever pregnant.
"No one can say with 100-percent certainty that anything in the piece did or did not happen," Shvarts said, "because the nature of the piece is that it did not consist of certainties."
One thing is certain -- you are one nutty broad.
Bronwyn|4.18.08 @ 10:23AM|#
Ok, so she didn't even do it right. Shit, for decent performance
art, she should at least have done her homework.
Whatever message she was trying to convey is completely obliterated
by her inability to perform the exercise with proper
methodology.
For her next endeavor, I suggest she have a period, wait 12 days
(from period day 1), then inseminate herself every day for the next
five days (her best bet is day 14). Then she should wait another
2-3 weeks. If she hasn't bled yet, bingo. *Then* she should take
her herbals to induce bleeding.
But hell, 30% of the time the embryo naturally aborts anyway - it's
usually evidenced by a "late" but particularly heinous
period.
So to really make her performance art statement, she should have
waited an additional 4-6 weeks. At least hit that transition point
from "embryo" to "fetus".
She's a loser on more counts than I originally thought. And sadly,
that's not comforting to me.
|4.18.08 @ 11:26AM|#
Bronwyn,
"That she inseminated herself was plausible.
That she aborted on her own is also plausible.
Women have been doing so with various herbal (and now chemical)
concoctions for millenia."
"But hell, 30% of the time the embryo naturally aborts anyway -
it's usually evidenced by a "late" but particularly heinous
period."
I completely agree. Whether she was actually successful at getting
pregnant, we don't know (chances are she wasn't).
Trying to explain women's fertility and menstrual cycles to some
people who are not interested in the facts is like talking to a
wall.
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