And Don't Get Me Started About Doctors...

Jacob Sullum | January 11, 2008

On Wednesday the Massachusetts Public Health Council approved plans by CVS to open 25 to 30 "MinuteClinics" at stores in the Boston area. The limited-service clinics are aimed at providing quick, convenient treatment for minor illnesses. Boston Mayor Thomas Menino was outraged:

In a statement, the mayor said the decision yesterday by the state Public Health Council "jeopardizes patient safety. Limited service medical clinics run by merchants in for-profits corporations will seriously compromise quality of care and hygiene. Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong."

Evidently Menino not only wants to prevent the clinics from opening; he wants to abolish CVS and every other pharmacy.

[Thanks to an anonymous reader for the tip.]

Comments

|1.11.08 @ 11:55AM|#

I'm quickly running out of places I'd like to move. We can cross off Boston now. I was wavering with the Lite-Brite incident, but now it is definitely on the no-go list.

|1.11.08 @ 11:55AM|#

Not only that, but the exams will be carried out by the Moonites.

geeksigh|1.11.08 @ 11:57AM|#

ugh... god how i hate you joe...

Mooninites

Ben|1.11.08 @ 12:01PM|#

That Menino quote reads like something out of the Onion. Is this guy popular in Boston?

|1.11.08 @ 12:02PM|#

Is there anything that doesn't outrage Menino? I'd swear the word is part of his name.

ed|1.11.08 @ 12:04PM|#

Is this guy popular in Boston?

See the comments following the article. He is apparently about as popular as the clap.

|1.11.08 @ 12:05PM|#

Actually, a google search using the terms "menino" and "outraged" shows that he can get pissed off over just about anything.

|1.11.08 @ 12:05PM|#

|1.11.08 @ 12:05PM|#

< sigh >

Abdul|1.11.08 @ 12:05PM|#

Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong

Wait 'til he finds out that grocery stores are making money off of hungry people!

Ash Lux|1.11.08 @ 12:06PM|#

John-David: Perhaps being outraged at everything is part of the job Mayor of Boston job requirement?

|1.11.08 @ 12:06PM|#

Wait 'til he finds out that grocery stores are making money off of hungry people!

And hotels are making money off of people with no place to sleep at night!

Mike Laursen|1.11.08 @ 12:07PM|#

Wait 'til he finds out that grocery stores are making money off of hungry people!

You win the thread!

|1.11.08 @ 12:11PM|#

Menino does a good job of making sure the government does its job well. The streets get cleaned, the potholes get filled, the snow gets plowed, the police establish good relationships with residents/businesses...but he gets these ideas in his head.

Tym|1.11.08 @ 12:11PM|#

Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong

So I gues he wants to abolish doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies and drugstores.

Also, I can see some conflict of interest issues here, but isn't some minimal care better than none, as the people utilising these clinics probably would just go untreated without it.

|1.11.08 @ 12:14PM|#

How about if the sick exchange chickens and goats for treatment? Is that OK with Menudo?

|1.11.08 @ 12:15PM|#

"""Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong

Wait 'til he finds out that grocery stores are making money off of hungry people!""""

ROFLMAO

They make money off of hungry senior citizens and pregnant women too. Damn them!!

The AntiHumanist|1.11.08 @ 12:16PM|#

Reminded of THE MYTH OF THE RATIONAL VOTER, I am curious whether the mayor of Boston actually believes what he says (CVS=for-profit=wrong, although for-profit practices, clinics, and hospitals=acceptable), or, if he only is saying what he is saying because, disappointingly, it is what he believes MOST PEOPLE believe?

|1.11.08 @ 12:17PM|#

Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong.

But forcing a person to make a doctor's (which ain't exactly free)appointment to treat a head cold is right?

Sulla|1.11.08 @ 12:22PM|#

Menino must be at least somewhat popular, he was mayor when I was in college there 10 years ago.

This seems like a great idea considering how many college students are in Boston. When I moved away from home, I had to find a new doctor and University Health Services was always such a pain about things. I ended up not ever really going to a doctor for anything. If there was some quick alternative for minor issues that had a fixed price that I knew about up front and I didn't have to worry about insurance stuff, I would have been all over that.

|1.11.08 @ 12:24PM|#

Our kids were sick, we caught it also. Standard general practitioners would not see us for a variety of reasons. The NP at the Minute Clinic in Arizona was professional, helpful, affordable, and provided a valuable service. I don't understand why we have so little control of our own healthcare choices. It would have been a waste of time to see a physician for something this basic.

Episiarch|1.11.08 @ 12:25PM|#

Not only that, but the exams will be carried out by the Moonites.

"Our liability coverage is zero. Our balls, however, are enormous."

|1.11.08 @ 12:26PM|#

"Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong."

As the ex-husband of a doctor, let me assure y'all that health care is all about the money (none of which I am getting now, I assure you). How else do you pay off $140K in med school loan debt?

We would send our kids to school sick, in the hopes that they would infect their classmates and so generate office visits for Doctor Mom. What better way to pay for four Vegas trips a year, a week in Hawaii, a cruise to the Bahamas, and my $45,000 pickup truck?

Now, looking back in from the outside and trying to support the two kids who left with me on a weekly newspaper salary, I am a bit ashamed.

Just a bit, though. I loved Vegas in the Spring. And Winter. And Fall. And even the Summer.

Episiarch|1.11.08 @ 12:27PM|#

We would send our kids to school sick, in the hopes that they would infect their classmates and so generate office visits for Doctor Mom.

So you freely admit that you are a prick. Nice.

Juan|1.11.08 @ 12:27PM|#

From the comments in the linked article

According to the City of Boston's website, the largest industry sector in the City is the Health Care, Hospitals & Other accounting for 54,797 employees or 41.6% of all Boston's jobs.

Hmmmmm.... may we be on to something here?

|1.11.08 @ 12:30PM|#

The CVS MinuteClinics are exactly what our healthcare system needs. It's a (presumably) cheap way for the public to self-triage and remove the demand on medical services providers. If you just need someone to look at a rash or something and possibly recommend an OTC ointment, this kind of thing is perfect.

|1.11.08 @ 12:30PM|#

I think Menino's concern is that the clinics would provide inferior care. I dunno.

The bit about ZOMG! profit! is just nonsensical.

|1.11.08 @ 12:31PM|#

They should put a moritorium on such clinics and establish 100 ridiculous regulations for CVS to comply with. That way when they lift the moritorium, CVS won't actually open any clinics because they'd be too expensive if they complied with all the regulations and nobody would go to them, and then the city can wonder why and conclude that it's because of the greedy corporations.

ed|1.11.08 @ 12:33PM|#

I think Tom was kidding. You were just kidding, right Tom?

|1.11.08 @ 12:35PM|#

"So you freely admit that you are a prick. Nice."

I freely admit that I used to be a prick, Epi. Most all physician spouses are. And the physicians moreso.
But I was also constantly amazed at the number of kids crowding the waiting room to see Dr. Mom and help contribute to my truck payment. Most of them suffered from minor ailments that could have been handled with some chicken soup and a day in bed. Their parents rarely cared. After all, someone else (insurance companies, the government, etc.) was paying for it.

Hat Trick|1.11.08 @ 12:36PM|#

I once had a minor eye infection when I was in Thailand. Went into a Pharmacy, talked to the guy behind the counter about it. He gave me some antibiotic eye drops and it cleared up in two days. Cost me about $5. God forbid we have anything like that here in the states.

|1.11.08 @ 12:36PM|#

For much of my military career, my primary health provider was [gasp!] a Hospital Corpsman. Not a doctor, not a nurse, not evem a physicians assistant. Just an enlisted man, an independent duty Hospital Corpsman. Affectionatly referred to as "Doc" by the crew, this trained professional provided health care for the lot of us.

Guess what? It worked! 90 - 99% of the time, a referral to a doctor was not necessary. That was probably because 90 - 99% of the time, Doc knew exactly what to do. I'd have trusted these folks to do an emergency appendectomy on me.

One of the reasons that health care costs in the U.S. are so high is the ridiculous demand that we see a licensed physician for every little ache and sniffle. It's like hiring an automotive engineer to perform a tune-up on your Chevrelet.

I'm afraid Hizzoner has a serious cranial/rectal inversion problem here.

|1.11.08 @ 12:43PM|#

"I think Tom was kidding. You were just kidding, right Tom?"

Ed, I was kidding in the sense that we would send our kids to school with minor ailments that didn't need medical attention, knowing full well that many other kids with those same ailments had parents who would call for appointments at the first sniffle.

I worked in her office, and I had to deal with parents of kids who had been sent home by the school nurse with temperatures of 99.5 - about the body temp that a kid can generate running around during recess (we still had recess in our town).

The schools didn't want sick kids staying home, because that cuts into their state money (reduces average daily attendance).

The parents didn't want to take time from work (or anything else) to sit home with a sniffly kid, so it was just easier for them take time from work (go figure) to schedule an appointment and demand antibiotics and pay their co-pay. Or in the case of the Medicaid Mamas, pull their fat asses away from the daytime soaps and gab in the waiting room with each other while waiting to be seen.

|1.11.08 @ 12:47PM|#

My PCP office keeps asking if it is ok with me if I'm seen by an NP instead of a doctor when I call for a sick visit. They act a little nervous and guilty when they do so, probably because it saves them money.

I don't understand why. Sometimes it's better to be looked at by someone who specializes is people who have medical ailments, rather than medical matters that effect people, if you get my drift.

MCW|1.11.08 @ 12:47PM|#

All this wouldn't even matter if we could be like the rest of the civilized world, and institute a universal single-payer health care system.

How do you wingnuts feel that we are the only industrialized country where people are uninsured?

Abdul|1.11.08 @ 12:52PM|#

How do you wingnuts feel that we are the only industrialized country where people are uninsured?

Same way i feel about being the only country that has refused to adopt the metric system: proud and patriotic.

Screw you national health care/kilometers!

|1.11.08 @ 12:52PM|#

"Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong."

I'd hate to live in a world where there is no way to be rewarded when helping people.

|1.11.08 @ 12:54PM|#

How do you wingnuts feel that we are the only industrialized country where people are uninsured?

I'm perfectly comfortable with it. Why do you ask?

Jennifer|1.11.08 @ 12:54PM|#

I know how to set a simple fracture, and if you broke your bone I'd only charge you $10 plus the cost of the splints and bandages. Say, $13 in all? Except that this would be illegal; if I want to make money setting broken bones I am legally obligated to get almost the same level of training as the guy who wants to do microscopic neurosurgery, and since I now have six-figure medical school debts to pay off I'm afraid that $10 fee will have to increased by an exponential factor, so-sorry. (Or moving to England where setting a broken bone is free, except they'll refuse to do it if you smoke cigarettes.)

Thank God you have the government to protect you from the damnfool idea that getting a broken bone set should be a cheap, simple procedure that can be paid for without getting a second mortgage.

MCW|1.11.08 @ 12:58PM|#

"I'm perfectly comfortable with it. Why do you ask?"

What about that little girl John Edwards talks about, who died because her insurance company wouldn't pay for a liver transplant. Hail The Market!

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

Jennifer|1.11.08 @ 1:01PM|#

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

And my father would be alive today if bicycle-riding were illegal. So?

Abdul|1.11.08 @ 1:03PM|#

What about that little girl John Edwards talks about, who died because her insurance company wouldn't pay for a liver transplant. Hail The Market!

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

Compare the number of organ transplants done over here to frog-swallowland and bloodpancakia. Organ transplants are high-cost, low long-term benefit, and usually only apply to marginal patients. So countries with socialized medicine tend not to do so many of 'em. Would the girl be alive in France? Maybe, but only standing on the corpses of old people who'd have gotten transplants here.

Sulla|1.11.08 @ 1:03PM|#

What about that little girl John Edwards talks about, who died because her insurance company wouldn't pay for a liver transplant. Hail The Market!

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive

And if we had elected Kerry and Edwards in 2004, Christopher Reeves would not only be alive, but also being walking and preparing for his role as Superman in The Dark Knight Returns.

(In other words, let's have an honest debate about health care, not a reliance on unfortunate anecdotes).


Sorry, but I had to feed the troll :)

MCW|1.11.08 @ 1:07PM|#

So I guess you don't care about Americans who go bankrupt from medical bills when they are suddenly diagnoses with cancer or some other terminal illness? The insurance companies get rich, the patients die, their families go bankrupt.

You think this is a moral system?

Dave W.|1.11.08 @ 1:07PM|#

All this wouldn't even matter if we could be like the rest of the civilized world, and institute a universal single-payer health care system.

How do you wingnuts feel that we are the only industrialized country where people are uninsured?

As much of an improvement as socialized medicine would be over the current system, a better solution still would be to introduce competive markets into the medical care industry.

I think most HitnRunners agree that a first step is cutting way back on the regulatory oversight of the type the mayor of Boston is exercising here. Many HitnRunners also think that the tax system needs to be overhauled so that there are not huge financial incentives to keep one's employer involved in the procurement of medical services.

Speaking now for myself, I think those are goo steps, but still not enough. I think concentrations of market power on the part of the insurance companies and on the part of pharmaceutical companies need to be aggressively demolished and dismantled. Competition! Most, HitnRunners would probably disagree with that because of the rampant corporatarianism that Reason mag has cultivated here.

But, all that said, the feeling isn't that the current US system is good, but rather that it can be reformed in much better ways than what you have in mind. I imagine that you would point out that your proposals are "tried and true." Fair point, but it should be kept in mind that powerful market actors are likely to profoundly shape how the US would transition to socialized medicine if it did. These powerful interests would insure that the US system did not function like it does now in Canada, Japan, Cuba or UK or anywhere else you want to name. The concern here, and I think it is a good one, is that the powerful actors would ensure that socialized medicine would end up as something even worse than what we currently have.

dhex|1.11.08 @ 1:11PM|#

the truly moral system is finding a way to make god pay for giving all those people cancer in the first place!

|1.11.08 @ 1:11PM|#

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

Or she would have died anyway because she was waaaaay in the back of the liver transplants line.

|1.11.08 @ 1:17PM|#

"Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong."

Wow. A majority of the voters in Boston elected someone that says s*** like this?

My condolences, joe. ;)

|1.11.08 @ 1:23PM|#

How do you wingnuts feel that we are the only industrialized country where people are uninsured?

We're also the only industrialized country where you can get an MRI the same day you get injured...and probably the only country where you can get it before the injury heals improperly.

thoreau|1.11.08 @ 1:23PM|#

You know, some of those medical devices have blinking lights on them...

|1.11.08 @ 1:25PM|#

I know [Saint] Mother Teresa is nunna non grata 'round these parts, but Menino's attitude is basically the same as the Marxist Calcutta authorities', which created the niche she so famously filled.

|1.11.08 @ 1:28PM|#

I freely admit that I used to be a prick, Epi. Most all physician spouses are. And the physicians moreso.

Hey!

Don't extrapolate your bad behavior onto others.

American Trial Lawyers|1.11.08 @ 1:30PM|#

the truly moral system is finding a way to make god pay for giving all those people cancer in the first place!

We're working on that! it's hard to get service of process because no lawyer has yet gotten to heaven.

Dave W.|1.11.08 @ 1:30PM|#

Don't extrapolate your bad behavior onto others.

yeah, yeah, we know: love the doctors, h8 on the lawyers.

|1.11.08 @ 1:32PM|#

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

And the $500,000 it would have cost the French or Swedish system would not be available to buy vaccines for 100,000 kids. These kids would then either get sick and die, or get sick and cost the system multiples of what their vaccinations would have cost. But it's only money.

I like tagging.

The AntiHumanist|1.11.08 @ 1:37PM|#

Regarding the immorality of free-market healthcare, for all of you who demand that I pay for everybody else's healthcare via government redistribution (because you obviously are too stingy yourselves to provide it yourself as charity), I have a compromise for you: you continue to pay taxes, receiving your healthcare via government and paying for those other untaxed individuals who would prefer it, and I won't pay taxes, using the money that I save to provide myself with healthcare. You can feel good about yourselves and your coercive compassion, and I can feel good about myself and my self-financed personal responsibility.

MCW|1.11.08 @ 1:39PM|#

You shouldn't be able to opt out of universal healthcare anymore than you can opt out of the interstate highway system, police protection, or public schools.

The rich would drop out, providing the system of a needed tax base running it into the ground.

Abdul|1.11.08 @ 1:44PM|#

You shouldn't be able to opt out of universal healthcare anymore than you can opt out of the interstate highway system, police protection, or public schools.


Police protection, I can live with. But where do I sign up to opt out of police brutality?

|1.11.08 @ 1:45PM|#

You shouldn't be able to opt out of universal healthcare anymore than you can opt out of the interstate highway system, police protection, or public schools

You're right, MCW. We shouldn't even have the (public) interstate highway system or public schools to have to opt out of them.

|1.11.08 @ 1:48PM|#

Explain how this "police protection" thing works. I might try to get it instituted in my state.

MCW|1.11.08 @ 1:48PM|#

Reinmoose, just wait until Wal-Mart is running your schools, teaching your children to be mindless, wignnut Republican-loving consumers.

Wait until the Intersatate Highway System is run by Microsoft, resulting in all kinds of shoddy roads that collapse without warning because nobody bothered to test them first.

Jennifer|1.11.08 @ 1:53PM|#

Wait until the Intersatate Highway System is run by Microsoft, resulting in all kinds of shoddy roads that collapse without warning because nobody bothered to test them first.

Actually, if Microsoft owned bridges they'd be better run than they are now. If Microsoft owned the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis last year, the survivors and the families of the dead could sue the fuck out of Microsoft. Alas, they can't sue the government, so the folks just had to fucking die because the government isn't accountable for its own mistakes.

|1.11.08 @ 1:54PM|#

Reinmoose, just wait until Wal-Mart is running your schools, teaching your children to be mindless, wignnut Republican-loving consumers.

Wait until the Intersatate Highway System is run by Microsoft, resulting in all kinds of shoddy roads that collapse without warning because nobody bothered to test them first.

HAHAHAHA! < sigh > *wipes tear from eye*

Chucklehead|1.11.08 @ 1:56PM|#

You know, some of those medical devices have blinking lights on them...

Personally, I like the machine that goes ping!

|1.11.08 @ 1:57PM|#

"Wait until the Intersatate Highway System is run by Microsoft, resulting in all kinds of shoddy roads that collapse without warning because nobody bothered to test them first."

You are joking, right? There are thousands of pieces of hardware that can be installed in PC, resulting in millions of possible configurations. Its amazing how well they work given Microsoft didn't even bother to test them. I can see how Apple could get away with little testing given the relatively closed nature of their product, but these Microsoft guys must be rocket or computer scientists or something.

Bingo|1.11.08 @ 1:57PM|#

At least Microsoft would issue monthly road patches for them after people bitched at them! Either that or people aren't going to mind paying a little extra for that smoother and less congested Apple road.

Hell, the government patches their roads once every 2 years and usually only after something breaks.

MCW|1.11.08 @ 1:58PM|#

Jennifer, corporations merely tie it up in courts for years. They have the money, middle class workers don't.

Why do you think the Justice Department failed to break up Micro$oft even though they are an illegal monopoly? Because corporations have the power, not even the government can stop them right now.

Thats why I use Linux and Firefox.

|1.11.08 @ 2:01PM|#

Chevrolet has an illegal monopoly. That's why I drive a Ford.

|1.11.08 @ 2:02PM|#

"""My PCP office keeps asking if it is ok with me if I'm seen by an NP instead of a doctor when I call for a sick visit. They act a little nervous and guilty when they do so, probably because it saves them money."""

Where your or your insurance company charged the same for seeing an NP in lieu of a more qualified doctor? That might explain the nervousness.

If you pay for a doctor you should get a doctor. I have no problems with NPs but I don't think the rate should be the same.


"""For much of my military career, my primary health provider was [gasp!] a Hospital Corpsman. Not a doctor, not a nurse, not evem a physicians assistant. Just an enlisted man, an independent duty Hospital Corpsman. Affectionatly referred to as "Doc" by the crew, this trained professional provided health care for the lot of us. """"

Same here, but we know what the authorities think about a Corpsman providing care for his kid. At least in one example.

Bingo|1.11.08 @ 2:03PM|#

MCW whatcha think about Apples 7% and growing marketshare? The market corrected what the government failed to do.

Garrett J|1.11.08 @ 2:03PM|#

Stan: So it seems like we have enough people now. When do we start taking down the corporations?

Man 1: [take a deep drag from his joint] Yeah man, the corporations. Right now they're raping the world for money!

Kyle: Yeah, so, where are they. Let's go get 'em.

Man 2: Right now we're proving we don't need corporations. We don't need money. This can become a commune where everyone just helps each other.

Man 1: Yeah, we'll have one guy who like, who like, makes bread. A-and one guy who like, l-looks out for other people's safety.

Stan: You mean like a baker and a cop?

Man 2: No no, can't you imagine a place where people live together and like, provide services for each other in exchange for their services?

Kyle: Yeah, it's called a town.

Driver: You kids just haven't been to college yet. But just you wait, this thing is about to get HUGE.

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:06PM|#

Or she would have died anyway because she was waaaaay in the back of the liver transplants line.

Be quiet. That never happens in countries with universal health care, because universal health care is perfect. Everyone gets everything they need, regardless of money. Everything is free with universal health care. If you disagree, then you're probably too stupid to see that you're living in a brutal and totalitarian police state. And you shop at Wal-Mart too.

T|1.11.08 @ 2:07PM|#

Why do you think the Justice Department failed to break up Micro$oft even though they are an illegal monopoly? Because corporations have the power, not even the government can stop them right now.

Thats why I use Linux and Firefox.

Cognitive dissonance in the wild, folks. Let me get my assistant Jim to tranquilize and tag it so we can see how it reproduces.

|1.11.08 @ 2:08PM|#

What about that little girl John Edwards talks about, who died because her insurance company wouldn't pay for a liver transplant. Hail The Market!

In France or Sweden, she'd be alive.

Wrong. In France or Sweden, the government would have refused to give the operation instead of a private insurance company.

|1.11.08 @ 2:11PM|#

Bold is the tag of the Worker! BOLD I say!

h/t to bzial

Also, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, is in his mid 50's, probably lower-middle class, and his biggest problems now are getting his driveway shoveled after a storm. And surviving chemo, yeah that's a big one. But going bankrupt? Nope. You, see, he had affordable private insurance...

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:12PM|#

I use Linux and Firefox too, but I'm not all smug and self-satisfied about it. Furthermore, I'm not comfortable inserting <b> tags with reckless abandon. I need to learn more from the master, MCW.

O MCW, bequeath to us your wisdom! Your progressive dogma is as fresh as it is realistic!

MCW|1.11.08 @ 2:13PM|#

SuperKufr, not that Linux and Firefox are not for profit. It proves that non-market entities can be as good and in this case better than what the corporations provide.

Episiarch|1.11.08 @ 2:16PM|#

Thats why I use Linux and Firefox.

Microsoft is so totalitarian that it won't even allow competitors' software to run on its OS. That's why I use XP and Firefox.

Jennifer|1.11.08 @ 2:16PM|#

Why do you think the Justice Department failed to break up Micro$oft even though they are an illegal monopoly? Because corporations have the power, not even the government can stop them right now.

Then how much longer will I be able to post here before Gates' goons learn I'm using a Firefox browser on a Dell computer?

robc|1.11.08 @ 2:17PM|#

Threads with MCW cause eye cancer.

Jennifer|1.11.08 @ 2:18PM|#

Is MCW really Dan T.? If so, I must say his style has improved.

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:18PM|#

SuperKufr, not that Linux and Firefox are not for profit.

Linux and Firefox are not for profit? Really? I learn new things from you every day! Amazing!

It proves that non-market entities can be as good and in this case better than what the corporations provide.

I could have sworn that I've been using Linux for over ten years and even been employed in Linux-based jobs, but WHAM! you show me that I actually know nothing! You are my new GOD! See how good I'm getting at using the <b> tag by being your faithful disciple?

|1.11.08 @ 2:18PM|#

h/t to bzial

huh?

H to the izz-O... V to the izz-A?

MCW n|1.11.08 @ 2:19PM|#

Right now must people still use Internet Explorer because of slick marketing. But just wait until the market share gets of Firefox gets higher than 10%. Then the Hammer of Gates will come down hard!

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:20PM|#

Then how much longer will I be able to post here before Gates' goons learn I'm using a Firefox browser on a Dell computer?

You're not using Firefox on a Dell computer. You only think you are. That's how powerful the corporations are. If you disagree, then you shop at Wal-Mart.

|1.11.08 @ 2:20PM|#

"Where your or your insurance company charged the same for seeing an NP in lieu of a more qualified doctor? That might explain the nervousness.
If you pay for a doctor you should get a doctor. I have no problems with NPs but I don't think the rate should be the same."

Happens all the time, Tricky. Since the NP is "practicing" under the supervision of the physician, the billing rate is same as for the physician.

I know of one doc with a booming pediatric practice who built a separate "Medicaid" clinic staffed by NPs so as to free up his time for the more profitable private insurance patients.

As I said above, it's all about the Benjamins and the maintenance of the doctor's lifestyle and ego. There are a few altruistic doctors out there, and they're generally considerd suckers.

|1.11.08 @ 2:21PM|#

reinmoose: AFAIK, bzial coined BITTOTW, so I tip my hat every time I use it. IP and all that.


And I don't know that Jay-Z song at all....

|1.11.08 @ 2:21PM|#

SuperKufr, not that Linux and Firefox are not for profit. It proves that non-market entities can be as good and in this case better than what the corporations provide.

I didn't realize that Linux and Firefox were government programs.

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:21PM|#

I fellate MCW. Everyone else here should, too. The <b> tags prove it. Case closed. MCW wins.

Episiarch|1.11.08 @ 2:22PM|#

Right now must people still use Internet Explorer because of slick marketing.

Really? I thought it was because it was bundled with the OS, and because it's a fine browser in its own right. I guess I must have missed those commercials for IE.

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:23PM|#

Right now must people still use Internet Explorer because of slick marketing.

I agree! I hate all those ads I keep seeing for Internet Explorer. They're everywhere!

I

T|1.11.08 @ 2:25PM|#

But just wait until the market share gets of Firefox gets higher than 10%. Then the Hammer of Gates will come down hard!

Given that Firefox passed that benchmark sometime in 2006, the Gateshammer is awfully slow in coming.

SuprKufr|1.11.08 @ 2:25PM|#

I didn't realize that Linux and Firefox were government programs.

That's because the corporations didn't want you to realize it.

Wal-Mart.

|1.11.08 @ 2:27PM|#

reinmoose: AFAIK, bzial coined BITTOTW, so I tip my hat every time I use it. IP and all that.

Ohhh, now I get it
*shakes head*

|1.11.08 @ 2:28PM|#

MCW -

Since you appear to be a socialist at heart, and not even a very bright on, In fact you are a moronosaurus.

Moronosaurus
One entry found.
Main Entry:
mo·ron·o·sau·rus
Pronunciation:
\ˈmȯr-ˌän\ ə-ˈsȯr-əs
Function: noun
Etymology:
irregular from Greek mōros foolish, stupid + sauros lizard
Date: 2008
1: a very stupid person, often a bigot

|1.11.08 @ 2:47PM|#

rather than medical matters that effect people..

Those are the kinds of medical matters I like...

|1.11.08 @ 3:03PM|#

SuperKufr, not that Linux and Firefox are not for profit. It proves that non-market entities can be as good and in this case better than what the corporations provide.

I've had to force quit and re-open Firefox three times today because it locked up on me.

Juan|1.11.08 @ 3:15PM|#

You shouldn't be able to opt out of universal healthcare anymore than you can opt out of the interstate highway system, police protection, or public schools.

The rich would drop out, providing the system of a needed tax base running it into the ground.

So what you're saying, is that government healthcare sucks so much that anyone who has the money to opt out will do so?

Out of general experience, I agree.

LarryA|1.11.08 @ 3:27PM|#

The insurance companies get rich, the patients die, their families go bankrupt.

Insurance companies act the way they do because they can't compete with each other. They can't compete with each other because their products are extremely heavily regulated by the government. The same government you want to take over our health care.

The Table of Contents of the Texas Insurance Code is several pages long. That's just the state laws, not the federal, and doesn't include all the regulations and procedures written to implement the laws.

|1.11.08 @ 3:45PM|#

Jennifer | January 11, 2008, 2:18pm | #

Is MCW really Dan T.? If so, I must say his style has improved.

I speculated on that a couple of weeks back.

I don't think he is. Dan T. had a way of twisting your argument and throwing it back that was actually fairly sophisticated.

MCW's jargon and style is straight out of the opinion column of Socialist Times.

Another Phil|1.11.08 @ 5:21PM|#

Menino is popular enough that he's been mayor since 1993 (I think). I lived in Boston for 14 years. He's an overbearing, intrusive prick. I don't think there's anything he doesn't feel entitled to meddle in. I'd like to force a funnel down his throat and give him the foie gras treatment.

|1.11.08 @ 5:21PM|#

This is nothing but glorified quackery.
This is being perpetrated on an unsuspecting public by corporations who have now invaded/infested health care.
Of course, pandering to patients by saying it is all for convenience/quality/price etc is very convenient and seems fair, I mean after all who can argue with that. Patients lap it up with the internet and TV emboldened ideas of what is wrong with them.
Only in the good old USA.
Doctors are already deserting primary care in droves. None of these clinics does a damn thing for the real cost escalation in health care which is happening at the tertiary end. All this will do is accelerate the process of making everyone see the nurse before they get to the doctor if you can find one, with the attendant delays, costs,poor quality, uncoordianted care etc .
Soon we'll be back to the Pre-Flexner report era of medicine. For those unaware of this era, perhaps you should look it up before pushing such initiatives.

Juan|1.11.08 @ 5:38PM|#

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexner_report

"The Report (also called Carnegie Foundation Bulletin Number Four) called on American medical schools to enact higher admission and graduation standards, and to adhere strictly to the protocols of mainstream science in their teaching and research. Many American medical schools fell short of the standard advocated in the Report, and subsequent to its publication, nearly half of such schools merged or were closed outright. The Report also concluded that there were too many medical schools in the USA, and that too many doctors were being trained."

And this was seen as a problem?

|1.11.08 @ 6:43PM|#

^^^^^^

Still is seen as a problem. IIRC, the gov't still pays hospitals to NOT train new doctors.

Paul|1.11.08 @ 7:02PM|#

Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong

So he's ordering a SWAT raid on all the pharmacies in the Safeway as we speak?

I'm not sure what scares me more, the fact that this pinhead said this, or the large number of so-called educated people that will nod in agreement.

Paul|1.11.08 @ 7:07PM|#

You shouldn't be able to opt out of universal healthcare anymore than you can opt out of the interstate highway system, police protection, or public schools.

The argument that you can't "opt out" of any Universal Healthcare system is, in and of itself, an indictment of such a system.

If Universal Healthcare really worked as the proponents of Universal Healthcare say it will, then no one will want to opt out of it, and even if some did, it will wipe out private competition due to the superiority and efficiency of care.

This is like saying communism could have survived if it hadn't been for that meddling capitalism.

BZZZT!!! Communism was supposed to thrive BECAUSE of Capitalism.

Same with Universal Healthcare. It is supposed to rise up out of the rejected and dying capitalist system. Not the other way around.

Paul|1.11.08 @ 7:19PM|#

For those unaware of this era, perhaps you should look it up before pushing such initiatives.

A retailer opening up a clinic is not "pushing and initiative". Only government can "push" an initiative. If you don't like these clinics, or feel the care is substandard, then go elsewhere.

If you can't afford it, I'll bet there's a state or local healthcare plan near you where you'll probably be covered.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people complain when healthcare choices expand-- especially when that expansion doesn't occur by government fiat.

Paul|1.11.08 @ 7:21PM|#

My PCP office keeps asking if it is ok with me if I'm seen by an NP instead of a doctor when I call for a sick visit. They act a little nervous and guilty when they do so, probably because it saves them money.

You know, the medical profession is rather like most other technical professions. It doesn't require a high-level microprocessor designer to diagnose basic ailments with your computer.

Mike Laursen|1.12.08 @ 2:39AM|#

... just wait until Wal-Mart is running your schools, teaching your children to be mindless, wignnut Republican-loving consumers.

Just wait until the first election where Republicans gain control of your universal health care system and deny all family planning and abortion services.

economist|1.12.08 @ 1:14PM|#

What the hell crawled up MCW's ass and died? If he/she loves socialism so much, why not move to a country that practices it, like Sweden or France? Well, except I heard they don't extend the same treatment to foreigners, probly cause it would make them magnets for welfare-seekers. I feel sorry for the girl who died from not having a liver transplant, but to say everyone has an inalienable right to healthcare is not a statement that holds up under close examination. For something to be a true right, allowing one person to exercise it cannot lessen the ability of others to exercise it. Paying for one person's liver transplant from funds taken from others lessens their ability to receive medical care or other goods that allow THEM to lead fuller and longer lives. You cannot provide the top level of care to everyone without regard to payment, and so it cannot be a right.

|1.13.08 @ 2:50PM|#

"""""Happens all the time, Tricky. Since the NP is "practicing" under the supervision of the physician, the billing rate is same as for the physician.

I know of one doc with a booming pediatric practice who built a separate "Medicaid" clinic staffed by NPs so as to free up his time for the more profitable private insurance patients.""""

Sure it does. But I could see some people have a problem paying for a doctor and getting a NP.