Brian Doherty | January 4, 2008
Paul partisans note with pride that, while an average of six different polls gathered at Real Clear Politics in the week or so before the Iowa caucus had Paul at 7.3 percent, he actually ended up with a result 34 percent higher. Of course, if he only exceeds the current polls by that same amount in New Hampshire, he'll still be coming in at just under 10 percent there.
If the goal of Paul's fans is to see him win the GOP nomination, that obviously won't be good enough. With the special attention both the official campaign and the enormous mass of unconnected volunteers have given the Granite State, there's no reason to assume he'll end up doing better anywhere than there if he doesn't pull off a surprising show--at least top 3. Failing that, the specific momentum of that specific goal will be hobbled.
But one thing I've learned from watching this campaign from even before it really began is that it has exceeded this old libertarian hand's expectations every step of the way, even as it has exceeded Paul's. It has done so because such a wide range of very different people get energized and excited by Paul's basic small government message when they get a chance to hear it unfiltered--mostly via YouTube and his personal appearances.
From the Paul fans I met researching my February reason cover story, I'm reasonably confident that they will not allow their enthusiasm for that message to fade, even if Paul only grazes 10 percent in New Hampshire. Paul will probably have the money to run straight through to the convention whether he wins a state or not. I don't anticipate his fundraising will dry up even through a discouraging beginning. But things Paul told me when I interviewed him for my reason story indicate (though did not promise) that he may drop out of the GOP race when the delegate count shows it's mathematically impossible for him to win.
At that point, well, he may begin considering that which he always says he has not yet considered: some sort of third party run. (I hope he does, though I'm not confident he will.) Whether or not that happens, Paul's movement is newly and deeply engaged in small-government politics, and Paulistas are eager and ready to give their money and time in support of it.
Even if they don't amount to much more than 10 percent of early caucus and primary voters here in January 2008, that is going to mean something strange and probably wonderful for American politics down the line. Think not Goldwater in 1964, who actually and surprisingly won his party's nomination; think Goldwater in 1960, a new force selling a message rooted (mostly) in individualism and liberty and making a splash whose waves wouldn't shake the establishment for years to come--but shake it they did.
In other Paul news, immediately pre-Iowa, the Christian Science Monitor ran a very thoughtful profile that gives a picture of Young Ron Paul and explores his Austrian economics background nicely, and quotes me toward the end.
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Ron Paul did better in the caucus than Bill Clinton did the year he won his first term.
THE FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF
Denial: "It can't be happening."
Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
Bargaining: "Just let me live to see Ron Paul elected."
Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
Acceptance: Maybe Obama won't be so bad after all.
Ron Paul did 34% better than polls in a state where his ideas
aren't so welcome (unless many voted for him strictly based on his
stance on illegal immigration, though I doubt it)
In New Hampshire I would expect that percentage to jump to at least
50% (and hopefully a lot more than that, but I won't hold my
breath)
Ron Paul did better in the caucus than Bill Clinton did the
year he won his first term.
Yes.. But the Democrats didn't have a sizable group of crazy
Christians that would vote for one of their own even if his
platform was "Nuke the non-believers" (would probably improve
Huckabee's numbers among evangelicals, actually) and another
sizable group that thought more spending + lower taxes =
good.
Paul's problem is that the Republican party is not a small
government party.
Let's not forget the faction that thinks our middle east policy is good, either.
Ron Paul is no worse than he was two days ago.
The problem is that he is no better either.
Ron Paul did better in the caucus than Bill Clinton did the
year he won his first term.
I'm afraid that isn't a meaningful comparison. Iowa Sen. Tom Harkin
was running for president in 1992, and the other candidates ceded
his home state to him without a fight.
Geebuz! Dr. Paul and his Pauloids in Iowa got a glowing report from The New Republic right before the caucus. Taht alone must have been good for 10 votes.
Let's see how fund raising goes now.
Giuliani is low, as is Thompson.
Huckabee is scary to a lot of people for different reasons.
And I'm still way below my contribution limit to Ron Paul.
Does anyone know why the results (both the MSM projected results and the precinct
results reported by poll watchers) stopped being updated around
midnight?
Here's the history of the Iowa Caucus results. The Dem Caucus
of 76 is pretty funny.
The real story is that Gravel did 128.4% better than
predicted.
Also, I'd like to remind everyone that it's not yet Black Nikes
Time. Repeat, it is not The Time. Counselors are standing by at
each Ron Paul commune in NH. Look on The Card for your local House,
and don't hesitate to call if you have any of The Feelings.
"""Paul's problem is that the Republican party is not a small
government party."""
Right.
Nor a fiscal conservative party.
Nor a non-interventionist party.
Nor do they desire to honor the Constitution.
Then again, when did were they?
Then again, when did were they?
1964?
Also, I love it when TheLoneWhackoff tells other people
they're the real CrazyOnes.
Ron Paul did better in the caucus than Bill Clinton did the
year he won his first term.
The important point is that Iowa voted for
Huckabee.
A Huckabee nomination woull give the independent voters to the
Democrats.
The Iowa caucus is all about Iowa.
he may drop out of the GOP race when the delegate count
shows it's mathematically impossible for him to win.
That's a bad idea in the case of a brokered convention. Fight to
the end for every delegate. Anything can happen, right?...
right?
I understand the excitement, but I also understand that I'm not alone in declaring that no matter how well Paul does, nothing else is accomplished but momentary self-satisfaction. Paul's candidacy is not the beginning of a trend: none of the other candidates are adopting Paul's stances, nor will we witness either a courting of the libertarian vote or more libertarian governance in the future. Ultimately, irrational populism will prevail, and we all will be considering which other candidate is the least evil--or whether we should vote, at all.
Fifth place was disappointing, but 10% is enough to stay in the
race and still be taken seriously by undecided voters.
Third place was oh so close -- Ron Paul had enough support in Iowa
to pull it off, they just decided to stay home and watch TV.
The media is spinning Huckabee's crushing defeat of Romney as a win
for McCain, who has a better shot at beating Mitt in New Hampshire
now.
That's pretty indefensible, given that McCain received only 13% of
the vote in Iowa, basically tied with Thompson who was assumed dead
in the water.
Just think if 4,000 more Ron Paul supporters had bothered to vote
-- they could have dealt a mortal blow to McCain's comeback
chances.
Get off your couches America. Get out and vote.
New Hampshire people, don't let us down.
I still have strong hopes for the Nevada and Maine caucuses, though
-- low turnout, little campaigning, and libertarian/independent
leaning voters.
I'm as big a Paulite as anyone, but Iowa was a disaster. Paul's appeal was to the independents. After Iowa, all the independents will vote either Obama or McCain (cue The Who power couplet). Paul will still get his 10% in NH. His supporters are the most fiercely loyal. The high voter turn out hurt him. The best thing that can happen now is for a massive blizzard to strike NH next Tues.
People we still have 1 yr to go! We only had one Iowa caucus...NH is Ron Paul territory. We shall see and take it from there. NH has intellectuals and they will vote Ron Paul. Not everyone who caucuses goes to the polls in overalls and love welfare farm /nanny state subsidies.
"Even if they don't amount to much more than 10 percent of early
caucus and primary voters here in January 2008, that is going to
mean something strange and probably wonderful for American politics
down the line."
Easy, Brian. We're not at Burning Man here. American politics has a
long, proud tradition of taking anything "strange and probably
wonderful" and gutting it like a fish.
Warren is right. Paul will pull his 10 percent in NH and that will be the high water mark of his campaign. The Iowa win legitimized Obama which will pull more independents regardless of his political stripes. McCain will do well in NH as he pulls the conservative independents, but he doesn't have legs for the turn south. The race will be more interested than some might have thought, but it won't be Paul making it a horse race.
I've participated in LP campaigns since Ed Clark in 1980,
including 3 of my own runs for congress.
This is, by far, the most successful campaign I've ever
participated in.
Is anyone as disturbed as I am that an ignorant populist like Huckabee won this primary? I think I might be getting to where I actually dislike populists worse than leftists.
Jose,
All true. Even so, Paul isn't going anywhere. Thompson will have to
fold up soon. As will McCain if he doesn't win NH. And if he does,
he may have to fold up later.
After Feb 5, it might very well be down to Romney, Giuliani and
Paul. If no one has the magical number on Feb. 6, Paul could become
very important.
"Ron Paul did better in the caucus than Bill Clinton did the
year he won his first term."
Wow! I've been reading the media all day long and this is the first
and only publication to even mention the name, Ron Paul.
The party's over, kids.
What kind of delegate count would Paul need at the convention to move the needle? 5% or more?
Hope he stays in long enough to win a few delegates and be nominated at the convention where the nominator can tongue-lash the GOP and, maybe, embarass the few who remember what the GOP used to stand for.
I think I might be getting to where I actually dislike
populists worse than leftists.
Progressivism and populism go pretty much hand in hand. I don't
think that makes the Huckster a Leftist, but he certainly looks
more like Teddy Roosevelt than Calvin Coolidge.
Oh, and I hate populists (of any stripe) about as much as Leftists
and "Progressives."
I've participated in LP campaigns since Ed Clark in 1980,
including 3 of my own runs for congress.
This is, by far, the most successful campaign I've ever
participated in.
A low, hanging curve to Edward.
I hate populists, protectionists, and evangelicals who mix their
personal beliefs with government. It goes without saying Huckabee
is all three.
The worst possible general election wouldn't be Rudy vs. Hillary.
It would be Tax Hike Mike vs. John "ask me for another sad story"
Edwards.
All true. Even so, Paul isn't going anywhere.
Are they selling "Don't blame me, I voted for RON PAUL" bumper
stickers yet?
Tammy -
The LA Times mentioned him in this context:
The Huckabee win in Iowa served to widen the race on the
Republican side, giving former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Sen.
John McCain of Arizona and Rep. Ron Paul of Texas openings to make
progress in New Hampshire.
And Sam Groove -
Pessimism is a terribly dis-empowering disease.
That is absolutely correct. We didn't get paul to 10% in Iowa with
pessimism, and we won't get him any further with pessimism
either.
Pessimism is a terribly dis-empowering disease.
I don't know what Sam Grove is thinking. Edward is going to make
this veteran pitcher pay.
Are they selling "Don't blame me, I voted for RON PAUL"
bumper stickers yet?
Noth that I know of, but printing them on $100 "Federal Reserve
Notes" would be kewell!
I agree with Warren. Paul has a non-negligeable base, and staying power, in a race that may not be decided until very late in the game because of a sharply-divided primary electorate.
and another sizable group that thought more spending + lower
taxes = good
Easy there, dot. This is the Reagan legacy you're talking
about.
Some of us anarcho-capitalists can get behind this platform again.
Think massive deflation of the dollar, followed by privatisation
and sale of gov't assets. (How much am I bid to run the interstate
highway system? Postal Service? Medicare?)
If Paul loses, I'll vote for whichever candidate promises to lower
taxes the most. The Club for Growth will do the same.
Funny how CNN lumps Paul in with Richardson, Kucinich and
Hunter, who got "slaughtered" in their words. CNN has proven to be
the biggest joke of this entire election. First, leaving a big gray
area on their pie chart instead of showing Paul's information; now
this. What a joke...I think Paul supporters should seriously
consider a boycott of CNN - they're making Paul look bad and/or
ignoring him when he did far better than they predicted, and that
blatant bias is as bad as Fox excluding him from the debate, in my
opinion.
I'm no Huckabee fan, but at least he supports the
FairTax/abolishing the IRS & income tax; and he's been critical
of Bush's foreign policy. That's better than most of the other
Republicans have offered, despite his social authoritarianism. I
wouldn't mind President Obama, who is a moderate-left libertarian
and better than all the other candidates except Paul in my opinion.
Hopefully Republicans can keep his spending and welfare proposals
under wraps, but he's more libertarian on almost any issue than his
Dem competitors.
Some time ago, Paul said that it didn't matter if he came in 5th
in Iowa because he was funded through Feb 5th.
The only viable route for Ron is to take 3rd or better in NH,
exceed expectations in SC, then steal some delegates Feb 5.
Ron was never going to win the nomination though the primary
process. His small, but non-zero, probability of getting the
nomination rests upon a topsy-turvy, brokered convention.
Nothing has changed.
What if, assuming he's not top three, instead of going third
party he cuts a deal with one of the top three GOP to publicly
commit to having all troops out of Iraq, Germany, Japan, and Korea
by the end of his first term. And in return Ron Paul gives him, his
support.
In otherwords the goal of this campaign, is not the election, but
to permanently change US foreign policy. This may be the only way a
Republican can take the election away from a Democrat.
Nick Wilson,
FoxNews didn't show him, either. Neither did I see Paul on MSNBC.
Come tho think of it, my local paper did not have any coverage.
Boycott the news media in general.
Get your news from Urkobold. We cover the future!
What if, assuming he's not top three, instead of going third
party he cuts a deal with one of the top three GOP to publicly
commit to having all troops out of Iraq, Germany, Japan, and Korea
by the end of his first term. And in return Ron Paul gives him, his
support.
What Republican candidate would consider that? As far as I can
tell, none of them have campaigned on a foreign policy
significantly different from what we have now.
YES. THE URKOBOLD PERSONALLY COVERS CHILDREN WITH MARMALADE OR
HONEY BEFORE ROASTING THEM.
THE URKOBOLD TRIED USING A THAI PEANUT SAUCE BUT HAD TO ABANDON IT
AS THE CHILDREN ALL TOO OFTEN DEVELOPED HIVES, RUINING THE
TASTE
I think I might be getting to where I actually dislike
populists worse than leftists.
The overlap in their ideas tends to be pretty large. Probably the
only area where they differ meaningfully is foreign policy, where
they split into lefty transnational progressives and either righty
national greatness goons or righty isolationist idiots.
Does URKOBOLD cover children?
Only if they don't get off the couch quick enough when the Sports
Illustrated Swimsuit video comes on.
Yes, populism sucks. Populism plays on the basest instincts.
Populism pays lip service to freedom, but it's not about
freedom, per se. Populism is the ideology of those who, if asked to
name the most important American principle, would instinctively say
"the right to vote" rather than "individual liberty."
Populism creates the sort of politicians whose campaign speeches
are littered with the line, "Americans want a leader who can..."
It's dismissive of the fact that being "led" isn't what America was
supposed to be about in the first place.
Indy's might go Obama in open primaries but for closed primary states deadlines have passed or passing right now. So by now you either have converted your voters or not.
Here's the data from all counties that don't have complete counts yet. It includes the % reported, Paul's % of the % reported and Paul's placement.
Also an interesting footnote to Iowa. I have seen first hand
reports/anecdotal evidence that after the straw poll many
McCain/Thompson people bolted.
What this means is that there were empty delegate slots and that
many went to Paul's people. He may well end up with 5 or 6 national
delegates from Iowa which in real numbers is way more then the 10%
raw vote count.
Well, other than as tomorrow's leftovers, does the Uber-troll believe that children are the future?
Children are nasty and brutish. They are obviously intending to
replace us.
Of course they are the future.
"But the Democrats didn't have a sizable group of crazy
Christians that would vote for one of their own even if his
platform was "Nuke the non-believers"
Yeah, there are no crazy, partisan Democrats.
BTw, does the RP campaign give free t-shirts to hot chicks? Some
foxes I know are into it.
"I hate populists, protectionists, and evangelicals who mix
their personal beliefs with government. It goes without saying
Huckabee is all three."
Huckabee is the 21st Century Republican William Jennings Bryan.
"All true. Even so, Paul isn't going anywhere. Thompson will
have to fold up soon. As will McCain if he doesn't win NH. And if
he does, he may have to fold up later."
Mike Reagan is predicting that McCain will win the nomination.
McCain is in first place in the new Pew poll, ahead of Guiliani by
2%.
"The media is spinning Huckabee's crushing defeat of Romney as a
win for McCain, who has a better shot at beating Mitt in New
Hampshire now."
"That's pretty indefensible, given that McCain received only 13% of
the vote in Iowa, basically tied with Thompson who was assumed dead
in the water."
I believe the last poll I saw of New Hampshire shows McCain leading
Romney.
Mitt Romney isn't going to abandon his faith, and neither are the Paulistas, by God. Even if Ron Paul gets nowhere, it was worth it sending him all that money because...well, it just was.
Hillary has collected a multiple of the funds Paul has
collected.
If she goes on to lose the nomination, was it worth sending her all
that money?
If she goes on to win the nomination, what about the vast sums
given to Obama?
Only one person can win. The money given to every losing candidate
is equally "wasted".
Rush Limbaugh was hilarious today. (I don't listen to him, but I
was forced to share a car with someone who does)
He was condemning every one of his listeners who voted for
Huckabee. He said that they don't have any right to criticize him
for carrying water for non-conservative Republicans like Bush (he
actually said this), if they're going to vote for Huckabee. Then he
went off about how conservatism is all about everyone taking care
of themselves, not depending on big govt, etc. If I didn't know
better, I would've thought he was leading up to an endorsement of
Ron Paul.
Fluffy,
Yeah, but if Clinton wins, she'll repay her donors and their
bundlers with preferential treatment in govt contracts, jobs, etc.
They might even get moved to the front of the line for medical
treatment once she institutes her NationalHealthCarePlan.
If Ron Paul wins, it's unlikely he'll give out goodies to the
people who gave him money.
"Only one person can win. The money given to every losing
candidate is equally "wasted"."
That is true if the only goal is to get a person elected. In Paul's
case, it is about that, but also getting a message out that is
seldom heard.
If the goal of Paul's fans is to see him win the GOP nomination, that obviously won't be good enough. With the special attention both the official campaign and the enormous mass of unconnected volunteers have given the Granite State, there's no reason to assume he'll end up doing better anywhere than there if he doesn't pull off a surprising show--at least top 3. Failing that, the specific momentum of that specific goal will be hobbled.
I've read this paragraph about ten times and I...I...can't figure
out what it means.
Yeah, there are no crazy, partisan Democrats.
BTw, does the RP campaign give free t-shirts to hot chicks? Some
foxes I know are into it.
Sure there are, but there's no one group where 50% of the people
going to the event are part of said group and 80% of them are only
going to vote for the guy that's part of the group. ;)
The point that you missed is that, when looking at the groups that
make up the Republican party, only a small percentage is
ideologically compatible with Ron Paul. That was not the case with
Bill Clinton. Paul isn't going to win over anymore people than he
already has. What percentage of the party is actually fiscally
conservative constitutionalists? My guess is 10% of Iowa caucus
goers are.
I should add that this is assuming that his goal is to win. If his goal is just to be heard, 10% may be enough.
Rush Limbaugh was hilarious today. (I don't listen to him,
but I was forced to share a car with someone who does)
He was condemning every one of his listeners who voted for
Huckabee
It's fun watching the Republican bigwigs freak out because they've
lost control of the rubes they spent so much effort building
up.
If Ron Paul wins, it's unlikely he'll give out goodies to the
people who gave him money.
Ron Paul won't cut taxes?
Oh, wait, the programs that put money in the hands of Ron Paul's
supporters are so much more moral than those that put money in the
hands of Hillary Clinton supporters.
joe,
There's a big big difference between implementing a policy that
happens to help some of your contributors, as well as a lot of
people who weren't your contributors, and specifically doing favors
for specific contributors once you get in office, as the Clintons
do.
In any case, I doubt Ron Paul would lower taxes until he lowers
spending anyway, and he doesn't get a lot of money from people in
the upper income levels, who would benefit most from a tax cut.
"Oh, wait, the programs that put money in the hands of Ron
Paul's supporters are so much more moral than those that put money
in the hands of Hillary Clinton supporters."
With Hillary, she will give special favors to certain companies
that contributed to her the way Bill did with Tyson, Hughes, Loral,
the Riadis, etc.
What if, assuming he's not top three, instead of going third
party he cuts a deal with one of the top three GOP to publicly
commit to having all troops out of Iraq, Germany, Japan, and Korea
by the end of his first term. And in return Ron Paul gives him, his
support.
What Republican candidate would consider that? As far as I can
tell, none of them have campaigned on a foreign policy
significantly different from what we have now.
None now, but if Paul arrives at the convention with a deciding
number of delegates, he may have choices superior to a third party
run.
It's intriguing to think the GOP could be faced with a choice:
change foreign policy or lose to the Democrats. That could be the
price the GOP pays for Iraq.
The Democrats are setting themselves up for this with their
substance-less drum beat for "change."
Well, if I know Edward, we're going to see a snark on Lew Rockwell, something like, "So the anarchist nutjob thinks the Christian nutjob could win it all. I'll wait to hear what the nazi nutjobs think."
Apparently Nick Wilson watches a completely different CNN than
most paul supporters.
We Ron Paul supporters sit at home and watch Wolf Blitzer and jack
Cafferty praise Ron Paul over and over again- running segments
where everyone says Ron Paul should be invited to all debates,
saying that Rn Paul is a "player" since he got 10%.
CNN has given Rn Paul by far the best coverage, but some Ron Paul
idiots do not live in reality and attack everyone who does not kiss
RP 24/7.
Actually, John, many people watched the CNN show I watch which
had, umm, Wolf Blitzer as the moderator. He said zip about Paul,
and the big pie chart behind him that kept showing up on the screen
had a big blank gray area where Paul's percentage should have been.
I couldn't believe my eyes. I thought it must have been a
joke.
I'm not even a strong Ron Paul supporter - I'd be almost as happy
if Obama won, as long as the GOP gets Congress. I certainly don't
expect them to kiss his butt 24/7, but I do expect him to get the
percentage of the attention he is due, which in this case would be
about 10% of the attention. He outperformed all the news media
predictions. But Giuliani got more coverage than he did. Read the
front page story? Paul apparently got "slaughtered" - the exact
word they used, and they lumped him in with all the candidates that
got < 2%.
I usually watch and read CNN, but this was total hogwash, and has
made me not want to do so anymore.
The only viable route for Ron is to take 3rd or better in
NH, exceed expectations in SC, then steal some delegates Feb
5.
The Republican race is still a mess, with Huckabee under attack
from major national players, Giuliani sinking to sixth (in Iowa and
now sinking in NH polls), McCain resurgent but broke, Thompson
buoyed by beating McCain in Iowa, and Romney too personally
invested to ever give up.
Looking at the race objectively, Ron Paul is actually in the best
shape, with the most money, the ability to go back to the well for
more (200,000 small donors far from maxed out), and more volunteers
nationwide than anyone (80,000 in over 1,200 Meetup groups.)
So he got 10% in Iowa. Most of the experts predicted he would never
even make it to Iowa. When he raised $10 million in 48 hours, they
conceded that hey, he might get 5-10% of the vote in a few states
and go home. I bet not one of them thought that IOWA would be at
the high end of that range.
If Iowa is a 10% Ron Paul state, what does that make New Hampshire?
He had twice as many donors per capita there as in Iowa.
A 10% showing makes Ron Paul look viable, for people on the fence.
A win in Nevada would help even more -- a low turnout caucus state,
with little competitive campaigning, and libertarian-leaning as
well. Throw in a few surprises in Wyoming and Maine, and Ron Paul
is a top three contender heading into February 5th.
Seriously.
Hotties for Ron Paul Calendar - ongoing interview and pics
here
and
here
If anyone has any questions go to the sites and post them in the
comments.
Juliet said she would stop by and answer some time tonight.
If anyone else who was in the calendar (several of you are in my
friends) wants to stop by and ask and answer questions that would
be cool. Just leave comments to let us know you are there.
I can use some help with digg and reddit.
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Several_pages_from_the_Hotties_for_Ron_Paul_Calendar
http://reddit.com/info/64hxb/comments/
Check out the rest of the site while you are there
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