Ron Paul as Long Tail Candidate?

Nick Gillespie | December 31, 2007

Newsweek's Andrew Romano has a story out about "long tail candidates" which zeroes in on Ron Paul and features some comments from yours truly and the invaluable Arnold Kling. Snippets:

Paul may still be the longest of long shots. But he's a long shot who can lure 5,000 supporters to his rallies and more than triple his entire '88 war chest in a single $6.6 million day. That's a whole new level of high-passion, low-polling politics-and in a long-tail world, others are bound to follow. "Ron Paul is the harbinger," says Nick Gillespie, editor in chief of the libertarian magazine Reason. "Just as the major entertainment companies are producing far more varied and individualized fare, I think we're going to see more and more political candidates who are more interesting in and of themselves but deliver smaller and smaller numbers."...

Over the decades, Americans have become increasingly unhappy about having to cram themselves into one of two "big box" parties. Seven of the last 10 elections were won with less than 51 percent of the vote; in three of the last four, no candidate won a majority. Today, two thirds of U.S. adults (and a full three quarters of 18- to 30-year olds) say they would consider voting for an independent candidate in the next election. The rise of Howard Dean (another anti-establishment Web phenom) and the recall of California Gov. Gray Davis mirrored this breakdown of consensus; 2008's fragmented Republican field is further proof. "The long tail is not the political center," economist Arnold Kling has said. "It is not a third party waiting to form. It is not a coalition. It is not a 'silent majority' of either the right or left. It is simply every variety of political belief that does not fit within the two major parties." As the Web allows niche voters to form communities, raise money and get heard, it's inevitable that the major-party machines will clash with-and ultimately accommodate-the individualized constituencies they're struggling to serve....

Gillespie argues the reward is a more responsive government. "Being just a Republican or just a Democrat no longer gets at what people are about," he says. "In order for a Mitt Romney to gain traction in a traditional party, he's going to have to mine the more marginal candidates for ideas and support." Paulites, take heart. Sadly, the gold standard isn't coming back. But the days of "not having the opportunity to get the message out"? Those are gone for good, too.

More here.

reason talked with Long Tail theorist Chris Anderson here. And applied the LT to beer here.

Help Reason celebrate its next 40 years. Donate Now!

Try Reason's award-winning print edition today! Your first issue is FREE if you are not completely satisfied.

Ali|12.31.07 @ 11:36AM|#

Time for proportional representation and limited presidential roles. Hey, and may be reverse direct elections of senators. May be.

|12.31.07 @ 11:55AM|#

One of the interesting ideas in 'The Probability Broach' was the idea of proxy representation; the idea that anyone could a) show up and vote in the legislature, or b) assign their vote by proxy to a professional representative.

I think you still would have big-government problems predicted by public choice theory. Nonetheless, it would afford some interesting protections, and coupled with supermajority requirements prevent a lot of absurdities.

|12.31.07 @ 12:01PM|#

In a rational world, the Bhutto assasination should have been good for at least a 10 point bump in Ron's poll numbers. What's happening in Pakistan shows clearly that a WAR on terror is a terrible approach to take to terror. Ron's the only candidate saying that, although Obama comes sort of close.
Unfortunately we live in a world where "government policy" means the madness/mass hysteria of crowds.

|12.31.07 @ 12:05PM|#

Ruthless,

If they find out Mussharuf had anything to do with it, then there might be a coming around to what Ron is saying...

|12.31.07 @ 12:08PM|#

Ultimately, the dollar will buy 0.50 Euros if we do not change our spending habbits at the federal level. Getting the message out only works if those in power listen. Apparently, they are not.

|12.31.07 @ 12:12PM|#

Another thing...
Just because Ron Paul has a long tail doesn't prove or even increase the likelihood that he can crack the Demopublican monopoly on demogoguery.

Robert|12.31.07 @ 12:16PM|#

I have a feeling that many in the long tail think the long tail consists mostly of people who believe as they do. However, many others in the long tail realize that's not the case.

|12.31.07 @ 12:19PM|#

Lost - -,
Bhutto herself was pro WAR on terror which is why she took the bullets.
So whether Mushy is giving the US any bang for its buck is irrelevant.
(Bang for the buck is the PROBLEM!)

|12.31.07 @ 12:22PM|#

We could just continue the Nazi State
see video proof want to arrest a presidential Candidate not out of the question!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3687275197363805545&q=ralph+nader&total=556&start=430&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7

|12.31.07 @ 12:25PM|#

I cannot imagin why anyone would vote for the war mongers that are handing our country over to the Saudi Arabia and China. We borrow money from China and Saudi Arabia every day to pay for the illegal occupation of a country. Can you imagin if any country on earth did that to us? Every man woman and child would be fighting in the streets. The media hides everything from the people. They push people like Julie-annie and now that slick snake oil salesman Huckabee. I was watching a smarmy reporter for MSNBC named David Shuster who was touting Huckabee. The entire system is rigged folks. Vote for Ron Paul cause that is the last best hope America Has for saving itself.

|12.31.07 @ 12:26PM|#

The main problem with the knowledge of crowds is not fear, but ignorance and apathy. How many people bother to even watch the crummy news from the MSM? Not very many if you trust their ratings, nobody reads newspapers and most people only use the internet for mindless entertainment. So if they do not hear about candidates like Ron from alternative sources the MSM will either form their opinion of him, or they will have never heard of him. Have you people even tried to talk with "normal" people about politics, not even getting into specifics? They gave me the same blank looks I had when trying to BS my way through essay tests I haven't studied for in high school, some even look so befuddled as if you asked them to recite the fundamentals of nuclear physics.

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 12:28PM|#

George Smith, author of The Case Against God, offers an amusing qualified endorsement of Ron Paul.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 12:29PM|#

It is bad enough that people call Dr. Paul a NAZI, but saying eh has a tail? A long one at that? UGH!

Next thing you know some crackpot will be coming up with a theory that the Bhutto murder conspiracy would have given Dr. Paul better poll numbers of only there were not a stronger conspiracy in play.

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 12:30PM|#

I cannot imagin why anyone would vote for the war mongers

Nor I, yet plenty of H&R commenters plan to do just that based on RP's comments on evolution.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 12:36PM|#

Nor I, yet plenty of H&R commenters plan to do just that based on RP's comments on evolution.

Maybe Dr. Paul is right about that, thus retaining his tail?

|12.31.07 @ 12:36PM|#

Here's a quote from the latest Justin Raimondo commentary:

Pakistan is not now fated to fall into the hands of radical Islamists. Such an outcome becomes more probable, however, the more determined we are to "do something." As Dr. Paul knows from his experience as a physician, the guiding rule of American foreign policy should be "First, do no harm." Taking "action" - intervening either militarily or politically - will do more harm than good. The illusion that we can control events on the other side of the world is a dangerous one: the sooner we get over it, the more likely we are to stay out of trouble.

* Insert "long tail president" versus "lotsa tail president" joke here *

Ali|12.31.07 @ 12:40PM|#

Nor I, yet plenty of H&R commenters plan to do just that based on RP's comments on evolution.

They want to prove to Paul that War can evolve into something better. Evolution.

|12.31.07 @ 12:45PM|#

So if they do not hear about candidates like Ron from alternative sources the MSM will either form their opinion of him, or they will have never heard of him.

Was talking with a liberal Democratic friend of mine yesterday who had never heard of Ron Paul, and didn't have any idea of what libertarianism was. She thought that because I was voting for a Republican, that I must be in favor of No Child Left Behind. I had to explain that not only did I share her desire to kill NCLB, I wanted to fire every single employee in the federal department of education and have them get real jobs, sell off the buildings, and make any attempt to resurrect this bureaucracy a manditorily impeachable offense. Sowing salt over fire-scorched ruins may have come up in the conversation too.

R C Dean|12.31.07 @ 12:48PM|#

Taking "action" - intervening either militarily or politically - will do more harm than good.

While this is certainly true in some cases, it is just as certainly false in others. The trick is knowing which is which. In Pakistan, it may well be the case that doing nothing is the least bad alternative, although given Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons and sizable activist Islamist community, this is by no means a given.

it's inevitable that the major-party machines will clash with-and ultimately accommodate-the individualized constituencies they're struggling to serve.

I'm not sure whether, or why, this would happen in any kind of reasonable time frame. These micro-consituencies are not likely to be able to throw an election, except when they conflict with larger chunks of the major party's base, in which case they could cost a major party an election. It would be suicide, for example, for the Dems to chase libertarians, as this would alienate their "socially dependent" and organized labor base.

|12.31.07 @ 12:56PM|#

What about this add from Ron Paul ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-iJKwskH4

Ali|12.31.07 @ 1:06PM|#

David-

"No more student visas from terrorist nations" stands against his rhetoric of "lets talk to people, trade with them, etc" as opposed to "bomb them and interfere with them". But I think he's trying to appeal to a certain segment of the republican base. I do not like it though. Otherwise it is a good ad that has a "Tancredo" feel to it (despite the fact that I despise Tancredo).

bob|12.31.07 @ 1:09PM|#

From TheSpoof.com

Ron Paul well positioned for the primaries, Bush threatens martial law

Washington, DC (AP) Just days before the first primaries, President Bush used his weekly radio address to alert the country to the dangers of what he termed a "revolutionary" election, stating that it was his duty as Decider-in-Chief to determine the outcome of both parties' primaries.

snip

Meanwhile, supporters of the so called Ron Paul Revolution, who already had their panties seriously knotted over Fox News's attempt to exclude Ron Paul from a forum, immediately held peaceful protests in 300 cities. During the 36 hour long events, Ron Paul supporters used their Blackberrys to contribute over $500 Million dollars to RonPaul2008.com

The Democrats responded by circulating another petition to seek the release of the campaign staff of anti-war candidate Dennis Kucinich, whose staff and supporters are being held at Guantanamo Bay "for their own protection" according to the President.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 1:15PM|#

prolefeed,

So, did you get a happy ending?

In my neighborhood I ran into a couple of enviro-chicks right after some not-for-profit .org thing moved in. I need to go back to mimicking the political beliefs of the hottest chick in earshot. Launching into the sillyness of ethenol does not even get you through the first beer.

|12.31.07 @ 1:17PM|#

"First, do no harm."

Nice slogan. If applied consistently, this would stop a LOT of government action, and not just in foreign policy.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 1:17PM|#

BTW, they were not the Northern Cal./Seattle Wa. type enviro-chicks, they were the DC Beltway variety. Well groomed, smelled nice, well dressed.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 1:18PM|#

"First, do no harm."

Nice slogan. If applied consistently, this would stop a LOT of government action, and not just in foreign policy.

Now we are in Star Trek territory with the Prime Directive or something?

Elemenope|12.31.07 @ 1:24PM|#

Now we are in Star Trek territory with the Prime Directive or something?

Hey, why not? In a post-scarcity society (like the Federation is presented as being), Libertarianism and Hippie Communism would be fairly indistinguishable.

Now all we need are replicators and holodecks to complete the obliteration of human society as we know it.

|12.31.07 @ 1:40PM|#

"Sadly, the gold standard isn't coming back."

Predictions are often wishes pretending to be wisdom. I don't believe anyone who says this is actually sad. Counterfeiting, once understood to be counterfeiting will not last. That crowds of college students are cheering Ron Paul's desire to dismantle the FED and holding up burning dollar bills, means far more than some cynical fool "sadly" predicting that the counterfeiting racket is here to stay.

Jennifer|12.31.07 @ 1:44PM|#

If Paul doesn't make it onto the ballot, I hope the pro-liberty momentum he's generated lives on, rather than fizzles out with him. Problem is, I can't think of another single politician in America (at least higher than the level of Town Alderman) who runs as close to the Constitution as Paul does.

Ali|12.31.07 @ 1:46PM|#

But, Jennifer, he does not believe in evolution. To hell with the constitution, you see without evolution we are lost as a notion!

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 1:46PM|#

* Insert "long tail president" versus "lotsa tail president" joke here *

Heh, Dude, he said insert

"notion" -> "nation"

|12.31.07 @ 1:46PM|#

So, did you get a happy ending?

Guy -- We had a pleasant evening. We agreed to disagree on politics, though I think she's more inclined to listen to libertarians, now that she's not lumping them in with Giuliani supporters.

Ali|12.31.07 @ 1:47PM|#

now that she's not lumping them in with Giuliani supporters.

Dondero spoke to her first?

jtuf|12.31.07 @ 1:57PM|#

The long tail effect would be even bigger in a parliamentary system. Should we expect political change in Canada soon?

|12.31.07 @ 1:58PM|#

"In Pakistan, it may well be the case that doing nothing is the least bad alternative, although given Pakistan's possession of nuclear weapons and sizable activist Islamist community, this is by no means a given."

Funny what it takes to terrorize some people.
Nuclear weapons, regardless of who has them, don't terrorize me.
Another thing that doesn't terrorize me is Fidel threatening to unleash on the US all his citizens willing to get out of Cuba. Mexicans don't bother me either.

Could it be said that the key to defeating terrorism is to not be terrorized in the first place? Most politicians say something like that, but they end up talking out of both sides of their mouths.

|12.31.07 @ 2:03PM|#

Problem is, I can't think of another single politician in America (at least higher than the level of Town Alderman) who runs as close to the Constitution as Paul does.

Jennifer, according to the Republican Liberty Caucus website, Jeff Flake and Jon Kyle (both from Arizona) have roughly the same extremely high libertarian rating of about 90% overall that Ron Paul enjoys. Several other members in the low 80s.

Way outnumbered by the statists, but it's not like there's nobody on the bench for attempts to carry the libertarian message in future elections.

|12.31.07 @ 2:06PM|#

Nor I, yet plenty of H&R commenters plan to do just that based on RP's comments on evolution.

You've got to be kidding. When I was last here, Fluffy was grousing about that, but I thought it was just because he had taken momentary leave of his senses...I had no idea that multiple commenters would desert Dr Paul over that.

What amazes me is that most commenters here are pro-choice and pro-gay-marriage, and Dr Paul is on the opposite side of both those issues...but it took a throwaway comment on his opinion of evolution to make them stop supporting him?

|12.31.07 @ 2:09PM|#

prolefeed,

Flake and Kyl both support the War in Iraq and an interventionist foreign policy in general, though. And that is a deal-breaker for me, and probably most Paul supporters.

|12.31.07 @ 2:10PM|#

Actually, according to his Wikipedia article, Jeff Flake now opposes the Iraq War. Hmm, might be a possibility.

R C Dean|12.31.07 @ 2:17PM|#

Funny what it takes to terrorize some people.

Hey, if you're not worried about nuclear weapons in the hands of religious fanatics engaged in active hostilities with US, I guess you're not worried about much.

Could it be said that the key to defeating terrorism is to not be terrorized in the first place?

There's something to be said for that, especially in dealing with all the "domestic security" folderol. Still, not being terrorized by someone is distinct from not being actually, you know, blown up by them. I think its possible to take action reducing the risk of the latter without being "terrorized" by anyone.

|12.31.07 @ 2:17PM|#

now that she's not lumping them in with Giuliani supporters.

Dondero spoke to her first?

Ali -- She was brought up to think that Republicans are evil, that big government does warm and cuddly things and just needs the right people in office, and she's been exposed to some Dondero-type Republicans and extrapolated such scheisskopfs to everyone pulling a Republican ticket for any reason. My brother-in-law is one such person, though over Christmas dinner after pointing out what Ron Paul actually stands for I convinced him that Ron Paul would be an acceptable choice if his favorite, Romney, lost and, in a miracle on the order of likelihood of the Virgin Birth, Ron Paul got nominated.

My mother-in-law, who is a Democratic politician, has a sign up on her barn: "Dysfunctional family parking only" with a Red arrow pointing to the Republican parking and a blue arrow pointing to the Democratic parking. When it became apparent that I was the only libertarian at the Chistmas table, she apologized for not having any parking reserved for me.

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 2:18PM|#

Thomas Jefferson endorses Ron Paul

|12.31.07 @ 2:23PM|#

"I think its possible to take action reducing the risk of the latter without being "terrorized" by anyone."

The first thing to do is ask yourself what you are doing (or your country is doing) that would make anyone want to terrorize you (or it).

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 2:23PM|#

Crime, there were several who said they would absolutely not vote for RP based upon his evolution comments. [shakes head]

BTW, the Jefferson UTube endorsement is kind of silly but, just for giggles......

|12.31.07 @ 2:24PM|#

From the Wiki entry on Jeff Flake:

Flake voted against No Child Left Behind, Sarbanes-Oxley, Medicare Part D, Homeland Security Act[3], and the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act. He joined John McCain and Jim Kolbe in sponsoring bills to increase legal immigration and establish a guest worker program. He has expressed interest in abolishing the U.S. Department of Education[citation needed].

Flake initially supported the Patriot Act and the Iraq War, but more recently has changed his position to one of cautious opposition, including voting against appropriations for both. He also supports ending the Cuba Trade Embargo ... "The Flake Hour"
Rep. Flake is opposed to the current and former earmarking processes, frequently challenging earmarks proposed by other members of Congress. Since May 2006, he has become prominent with the "Flake Hour," a tradition at the end of spending bill debates in which he asks earmark sponsors to come to the House floor and justify why "taxpayers should pay for their "pet projects."[7] Flake issues a press release listing an "egregious earmark of the week" every Friday.[2]

Hey, he seems teachable about interventionism, and on some issues is clearly more libertarian than Ron Paul. Plus, much younger and more photogenic.

Ali|12.31.07 @ 2:25PM|#

Prolefeed- LOL!

Elemenope|12.31.07 @ 2:26PM|#

What amazes me is that most commenters here are pro-choice and pro-gay-marriage, and Dr Paul is on the opposite side of both those issues...but it took a throwaway comment on his opinion of evolution to make them stop supporting him?

People aren't reasonable, crimethink. They're never reasonable...even in a forum hosted by a magazine with a name like this one.

I mean, the audacity of a 70-odd year old man to believe something that in all likelihood he was never taught either at home or in school...well, now, that obviously disqualifies him to be president.

The ability of a person to analyze information or make good decisions is not bound up in any one issue or litmus test. I remember clearly just a few years ago running into a college professor (an educated man) who still for some reason believed that HIV could not be transmitted by heterosexual sex. The whole class in unison shouted at his folly, and he looked honestly startled and perplexed.

He just hadn't gotten the memo.

People believe silly things for all sorts of idiosyncratic reasons. I think it better to look at the wide angle for stuff like this.

Ali|12.31.07 @ 2:29PM|#

TWC, that Jefferson video was funny and very well done!

|12.31.07 @ 2:39PM|#

Good points, prolefeed. But --

They're never reasonable...even in a forum hosted by a magazine with a name like this one.

I'm not sure if The Rules require it in such a gray area, but I'm taking a drink just in case. Better safe than sorry.

TWC -- laughed so hard I cried over the Thomas Jefferson video. Thanks for the link!

|12.31.07 @ 2:43PM|#

crimethink -- I didn't post the gray area drinking rule violation (lite beer swig for marginal cases like this?)

Or were you silently objecting to my points, and thought the fallacy in my logic was so obvious that you didn't even need to type your objections?

Signed, confused in the frickin' cold PacNW (on "vacation")

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 2:45PM|#

prolefeed,

So, did you get a happy ending?

Guy -- We had a pleasant evening. We agreed to disagree on politics, though I think she's more inclined to listen to libertarians, now that she's not lumping them in with Giuliani supporters.

Um, that was a pretty long "no" answer dude.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 2:47PM|#

Nuclear weapons: They just make a bigger hole. Get over it.

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 2:52PM|#

Ali & Prole, thanks, now, anybody know if Jeff lisped in real life?

Ska|12.31.07 @ 2:53PM|#

Word.

|12.31.07 @ 2:54PM|#

prolefeed, I'm sorry, that was directed at Elemenope. You people all look the same to me! ;-)

|12.31.07 @ 2:56PM|#

TWC, I removed a bizarre reference in the WP article about which of Flake's kids was his favorite, so I wouldn't be surprised if someone speculated about that at some point!

Elemenope|12.31.07 @ 2:59PM|#

True, and we are all dirty ne'er do wells, so I can see why you might confuse one with another. :)

Also, LOL at ThJ vid.

R C Dean|12.31.07 @ 3:00PM|#

The first thing to do is ask yourself what you are doing (or your country is doing) that would make anyone want to terrorize you (or it).

Aggression happens out in the real world, Ruthless. Not every victim provokes the attack.

Seriously, a world where a nuclear-armed government actively supports and has very close ties to terrorists engaged in attacks on civilians causes you no concern?

|12.31.07 @ 3:07PM|#

prolefeed,

So, did you get a happy ending?

Guy -- We had a pleasant evening. We agreed to disagree on politics, though I think she's more inclined to listen to libertarians, now that she's not lumping them in with Giuliani supporters.

Um, that was a pretty long "no" answer dude.

Ummm, Guy, were you asking if I scored? 'Cause I'm married, and the person in question is my wife's cousin, and my wife was in the room, and my kids -- yeah, yeah, standard libertarian disclaimer: "Nothing wrong with tapping that, bystanders or no."

I gave a long answer because of considerable ambiguity about what you meant by a "happy ending" -- as in, a petite Asian soapy massage girl "happy ending", or ...

I should just shut up and invoke my Fifth Amendment rights now, yeah?

|12.31.07 @ 3:09PM|#

Guy -- I guess this being the Long Tail thread and all, I should have seen where you may have been going with that. ;)

|12.31.07 @ 3:12PM|#

I have no idea what H&R is but if those self righteous pricks are going to switch their vote based on some stupid evolution comment, they have a serious mental problem if they consider themself Libertarian. If a candidate subcribes to the maxim of Libertarianism, he could be a scientologist for all I care. The maxim is "Just because you're so damn stupid that doesn't I have my life dictated to me from these criminals." Ron whether he knows it or not, adheres to that maxim, so who cares what his personal views are when his policy is a given.

From The Keystrokes of John Q.|12.31.07 @ 3:13PM|#

What amazes me is that most commenters here are pro-choice and pro-gay-marriage, and Dr Paul is on the opposite side of both those issues...but it took a throwaway comment on his opinion of evolution to make them stop supporting him?

Dear Crimethink,

A chilling observation! Sad but true!

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists of holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. Enjoy, sir, your sensibility of feeling and reflecting. It is the perogative of the animals. And no man will envy you those honors, in which a savage only can be your rival and a bear your master."~ Thomas Paine to Sir William Howe 1778

The Wine Commonsewer|12.31.07 @ 3:13PM|#

I hate Outlook. I hate Microsoft.

Thanks for listening.

Aristophanes|12.31.07 @ 3:15PM|#

Just because you're so damn stupid that doesn't mean I should have my life dictated to me from these criminals.

Usually my grammar only falters when talking about Huckabee, he makes one stupid by osmosis.

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 3:19PM|#

prolefeed,

I proscribe coffee Sir, the strong kind with caffeine :)

|12.31.07 @ 3:23PM|#

"Seriously, a world where a nuclear-armed government actively supports and has very close ties to terrorists engaged in attacks on civilians causes you no concern?"

The thing about it, RC, is, what am I gonna do other than wear a t-shirt that says, "I'm NOT with Stupid (as in Dubya and his coalition partners)"?

Guy Montag|12.31.07 @ 3:31PM|#

Ruthless,

You could make a custom shirt that says "Marxism: The opiate of dumbasses"

|12.31.07 @ 3:42PM|#

Guy Montag,
More like: "War: The crack/ass-crack of the dumbass-cracks."

Edward|12.31.07 @ 4:01PM|#

Ron Paul's role is clearly to provide comic relief for normal voters and an outlet for the seriously deranged.

R C Dean|12.31.07 @ 4:01PM|#

The thing about it, RC, is, what am I gonna do other than wear a t-shirt

You personally? Probably not much, Ruthless.

But I wasn't asking if you personally where going to go all Rambo on the Pakistani internal security goons. I was asking more whether you had any concerns about Islamists taking over Pakistan and getting their hands on its nukes.

The next question is, if you are worried about it, what do you think can or should be done? Is that still a situation where doing nothing is the least bad alternative? It could be, but "Islamists at war with the US get their hands on nukes" is a pretty bad alternative to begin with, so I'd be interested to hear what we could do to make it worse.

|12.31.07 @ 4:04PM|#

"I was asking more whether you had any concerns about Islamists taking over Pakistan and getting their hands on its nukes."

Would they attack us when they knew that we could attack them in kind?

Rimfax|12.31.07 @ 4:05PM|#

What are the Hit & Run drinking rules?

|12.31.07 @ 4:13PM|#

"Seriously, a world where a nuclear-armed government actively supports and has very close ties to terrorists engaged in attacks on civilians causes you no concern?"

Why would the Pakistani government, even an Islamic Pakistani government, give WMD to terrorists when they know those weapons could be turned against themselves at some point in the future or could be used against them for blackmailing purposes?

Nuclear arms leave fingerprints. If the terrorists used those weapons against America, they could be traced back to Pakistan and then Pakistan would be in a heap of trouble.

The best way to prevent terrorism against American citizens is to stop giving the terrorists reasons to attack us which we could do by stop meddling over there.

Rimfax|12.31.07 @ 4:17PM|#

For good or ill, the most electorally successful libertarian-inclined folks are very religious and have pro-life positions. As a pro-choice atheist, I am still willing to vote for them. I will vote for Ron Paul if he is nominated.

|12.31.07 @ 4:30PM|#

"I wasn't asking if you personally where going to go all Rambo"
RC,
What I've been trying to say to you is that you and the ignorant majority's first instinct needs to cease being to go all Ramboey.
Let's try that for a while and see how it works.

Where's SIV?
He said his single issue is legalizing cock-fighting.
All of us should try to confine our Ramboey tendencies to cock-or-dog-fighting or football or rugby...
Or be in closer touch with our feminine sides.

|12.31.07 @ 4:32PM|#

"What are the Hit & Run drinking rules?"

As the Outback restaurant slogan goes: No rules. Just right.

Jennifer|12.31.07 @ 5:34PM|#

Debating whether or not we should do something military about Pakistan is like debating whether or not I should buy a Space Shuttle--since there's no way in hell I can afford one anyway, I simply don't care.

(Of course, for this analogy to really work you'd have to pretend that I could have bought a Space Shuttle a few years ago, only now I can't afford to because I wasted all my money hiring a hitman to go beat the shit out of some guy who had absolutely nothing to do with the people who mugged me one fine September morning back in 2001.)

|12.31.07 @ 6:58PM|#

His tail might not be that long, but there are other parts of him that are...

|12.31.07 @ 7:10PM|#

milton--

We borrow money from China and Saudi Arabia every day to pay for the illegal occupation of a country.

No.

We give them ("easily de-valued" 'pieces of paper').

See FDR in '33...he stole 40% of all 'assets' in the US in one day!

Edward|12.31.07 @ 7:47PM|#

I will vote for Ron Paul if he is nominated.--Rimafax

Yeah, and if it turns out that the moon is made of green cheese, I'll eat some.

Going out on limbs is fun.

|12.31.07 @ 9:25PM|#

And if Edward ever makes a worthwile comment, I'll go to a rainbow party with Herrick And His Balls.

|1.1.08 @ 2:50AM|#

Dr. Pauls support here in NH is very strong, he is set up to surprise if not win in my estimate. NH gets very little federal money so Dr. Pauls desire to eliminate the income tax resonates very strongly here.

joe|1.1.08 @ 11:19AM|#

RC Dean,

Hasn't Iraq taught you anything? Didn't the Israeli "anti-Hezbollah" war teach you anything?

You just assume that "doing something" can only make the situation better, when "doing something" can quite plainly make it worse.

Reason Magazine

Get Reason E-mail Updates!

Site comments/questions:

Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:

Editorial & Production Offices:

advertisements