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The Jihad Against Global Warming
Move over Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and Al Gore, Osama bin Laden is now speaking out against global warming according to the transcript of his latest communication with the world. To wit:
"The life of all mankind is in danger because of the global warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the factories the major corporations."
Whole CNN story here.
shecky|9.7.07 @ 4:21PM|#
He added he'll be announcing his bid for the Presidency in a few days. And as President, he'll continue his policies of keeping American troops engaged in Iraq.
A Big Man|9.7.07 @ 4:22PM|#
I guess I have to admit it. Wiegel was right. Daily Kos has taken over the world.
|9.7.07 @ 4:24PM|#
Anyone seen how PETA says meat-eaters are responsible for global warming now? I'd be more concerned about global warming if every single leftist group under the sun didn't use it to promote whatever looney issue they believe in.
|9.7.07 @ 4:31PM|#
Makes sense.
They both want to roll us back to the 8th century and they both
would like to silence unbelievers.
|9.7.07 @ 4:31PM|#
"Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and Al Gore, Osama bin
Laden"
All of the same ilk in my book.
|9.7.07 @ 4:40PM|#
'You elected the Democratic Party... but the Democrats haven't
made a move worth mentioning. On the contrary, they continue to
agree to the spending of tens of billions to continue the killing
and war'...
Has anyone actually seen OBL and Kos in the same place at the same
time? Moreover, are there any confirmed sightings of Kos prior to
the US invastion of Afghanistan in 2001? I am really starting to
wonder.
|9.7.07 @ 4:40PM|#
read the whole thing fer yerself...
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/transcript2.pdf
|9.7.07 @ 4:41PM|#
Ron,With all the left wing nuts and now this I still can't but a carbon tax.When the issue is used to further every argument it loses it's validity.I saw on Yahoo news how all polar bears will be gone ny 2050 thanks to,yes,global warming.
|9.7.07 @ 4:41PM|#
MSNBC is reporting that he blasted Democrats for not forcing a
withdrawal from Iraq.
Jeez. He's trying to get President Bush a third term. He must
REALLY hate the US.
|9.7.07 @ 4:43PM|#
I start getting worried when OBL start stumping for a national
health care system...
I suppose there little reason to point out his hypocrisies, but
doesn't OBL's money come from a massive Saudi construction firm?
You know, one of those major corporations he's whining
about...
Sadly, replace OBL above with many of the big anti-global warming
names, and you won't miss a beat...
|9.7.07 @ 4:45PM|#
I start getting worried when OBL start stumping for a
national health care system...
Well, the Iranian president did criticize the US because people 40
million people are without health insurance and we have too many
people in prison! I'm not kidding.
stoneymonster|9.7.07 @ 4:46PM|#
"I just think people have got to be clear that we're being
manipulated every time that they issue a statement, because they're
trying to use the media as a way to terrorize us," she said. "After
all, we haven't seen an attack, and this is one way that they try
to terrorize the American people." - National Security
Advisor
Pot/Kettle? (Not that Osama isn't a piece of filth).
|9.7.07 @ 4:52PM|#
When the issue is used to further every argument it loses
it's validity.
A recent letter to the
editor...
With regard to Mary Terry Bader's response to the diaper-free children's story (Letters, Aug. 29), I would rather deal with a baby urinating in a public sink than the thousands of plastic diapers that will take eons to disintegrate in our landfills. She needs to see "An Inconvenient Truth" - that's something to worry about.
Name withheld to save them the embarrassment...
|9.7.07 @ 4:55PM|#
"The life of all mankind is in danger because of the global
warming resulting to a large degree from the emissions of the
factories the major corporations."
Global warming is panning out to be a great catch all for
intellectually bankrupt political groups. The only one I can think
of that it hasn't trapped yet is the Republican party.
Episiarch|9.7.07 @ 4:55PM|#
Does the left or the right ever get embarrassed when terrorist scumbags use their talking points? I mean, seeing as most terrorists are collectivists of one stripe or another (religious/socialist/racist), they are bound to jump on somebody's bandwagon, whether it's social conservatism (all this decadence is destroying the decency or our society!), la Raza, or global warming.
|9.7.07 @ 4:56PM|#
I haven't seen John and OBL in the same place at the same time
either. Hummm, come to think about it, I have seen myself and OBL
in the same place at the same time either. Wow, I have some
thinking to do. lol.
John I'm sure you understand that the Dems didn't win enough to get
their way. It takes a greater majority than what they have to bring
about change.
stoneymonster|9.7.07 @ 4:59PM|#
John I'm sure you understand that the Dems didn't win enough
to get their way. It takes a greater majority than what they have
to bring about change.
Or at least some desire to effect change...
|9.7.07 @ 5:00PM|#
Cesar, that is correct. We have more people in prison than any other country. Maybe because we pass on summary executions. Maybe not. Certainly we cut less limbs for crimes than Iran does.
|9.7.07 @ 5:02PM|#
I think he has us pretty well pegged when it comes to our idiotic foreign policy.
|9.7.07 @ 5:03PM|#
Cesar, that is correct. We have more people in prison than
any other country. Maybe because we pass on summary executions.
Maybe not. Certainly we cut less limbs for crimes than Iran
does.
Yes, I too thought it was ironic coming from a man whose government
cuts off limbs and hangs people from cranes for "gender
mixing".
|9.7.07 @ 5:04PM|#
all this decadence is destroying the decency or our society!),
"
That is so 1960s. The society is degenerate is really the left's
gig these days, especially after they lose an election.
"The book describes Soros, after Bush's victory in 2004, coming to
the realization that (in Bai's words) "it was the American people,
and not their figurehead, who were misguided. ... Decadence ... had
led to a society that seemed incapable of conjuring up any outrage
at deceptive policies that made the rich richer and the world less
safe."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/books/review/Gillespie-t.html?_r=1&ref=books&oref=slogin
Soros has to be one of the creepiest people on earth. He is right
out of Dr. Strangelove or 10 Days in May or something. Thank God he
is not actually in charge of anything.
|9.7.07 @ 5:06PM|#
TrickyVic,
I said before the election that it wouldn't change a thing and I
was right. We have the big scary Democratic Congress and here we
are almost a year later and there are more troops in Iraq than ever
before and the NSA has more authority to conduct wire taps on
foreign communications. Make all the excuses you want, but the
facts are still the facts.
|9.7.07 @ 5:19PM|#
Taktix, it's not just that he's able to finance his homicidal lunacy through money from a big corporation, it's that the actual source of the money is the Saudi government's oil revenues. No oil, no Osama-as-the-next-caliph. Of course, he's a murderous loon, which is usually inconsistent with much actual self-awareness.
S.A. Miller|9.7.07 @ 5:28PM|#
I've read the whole transcript. Once you remove all the
religious stuff, that is leaving only the political stuff, it reads
like DailyKos talking-points.
Well except for the no taxes part....
Minion of URKOBOLD|9.7.07 @ 5:29PM|#
"Yes, I too thought it was ironic coming from a man whose
government cuts off limbs and hangs people from cranes for "gender
mixing"."
NECK STUMP!!!! DO NOT FORGET THE NECK STUMP!!!
|9.7.07 @ 5:31PM|#
The only one I can think of that it hasn't trapped yet is
the Republican party.
Dunno about your state, but a feelgood let's-all-fix-global-warming
bill at the Hawaii state legislature was passed 49-2, with only one
out of eight Republicans voting "no".
|9.7.07 @ 6:04PM|#
What a hoot, it's amazing how many people really seem to want to destroy liberal western civilization. (Even some libertarians) I personally see western civilization and liberty are intertwined, and the enhancement of one leads to the enhancement of the other. Not everyone feels this way, of course.
|9.7.07 @ 6:14PM|#
OK, I get it. He's a "true believer" a "man of faith" who has
"submitted to the "Will of Allah".
I am forming new, all inclusive, religion with me as the Supreme
Occultist, Holy Reverend, Caliph, High Mucky-muck, High Priest and
so on. It's going to be called th "ONE TRUE FUNDAMENTAL,
HOLY, APOSTOLIC, REFORMED, ORTHODOX, CONGREGATIONAL, PRESBYTERIAN,
CHURCH OF WE DON'T KNOW SHIT AND WE'RE SURE OF IT!. I
think I have most of the bases covered there. It's divinely
inspired because God, Allah, all of the archangels, Buddha, Shiva,
and all of the prophets didn't visit me or tell me anything about
the "meaning of our existence". It therfore logically imperative
that I have to share that non-message with the world. Tithing, for
this millenium only, is reduced to 5%. I get the cute cheerleaders
for my spiritual harem, celibate of course.
|9.7.07 @ 6:18PM|#
"Dear Lord, please don't let OBL endorse Ron Paul. Yea in fact,
cause him denounce Dr. Paul as the only Presidential Candidate he
fears. Or, God, maybe it would be better if he doesn't mention Ron
Paul, now that I think about it.
Your humble servant, etc,
Trey"
SxCx|9.7.07 @ 6:33PM|#
Next up: Wal-Mart and private health care. After that: the Democratic nomination?
Doctor Duck|9.7.07 @ 6:34PM|#
"ONE TRUE FUNDAMENTAL, HOLY, APOSTOLIC, REFORMED, ORTHODOX, CONGREGATIONAL, PRESBYTERIAN, CHURCH OF WE DON'T KNOW SHIT AND WE'RE SURE OF IT!
Dr. Bronner has your back, good buddy.
|9.7.07 @ 6:35PM|#
"Hardline" fused Islam and deep ecology oh so long ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardline_%28subculture%29
...no, I'm not saying that OBL is essentially hardline!
|9.7.07 @ 6:47PM|#
'I invite you to embrace Islam... There are no taxes in
Islam...'
Osama bin Laden - Libertarian
|9.7.07 @ 7:02PM|#
Hey, I made an HTML link work! Just one or two hundred more and I'll be proficient.
|9.7.07 @ 7:32PM|#
Wow, I just read the article about hardline mentioned above. It's difficult for me to imagine a subculture that sounds like I'd enjoy it less than that. I know people I like that seem to hold two or three of their tenets, but it's like a hodgepodge of the ridiculous. If my lefty, vegetarian sister were also irritatingly spiritual and an annoying teetotaler, she'd be unbearable. It's like if had a Ted Nugent, Cat Stevens, and Julia Butterfly Hill (The tree-sitter) teleporter accident.
|9.7.07 @ 7:41PM|#
Does the left or the right ever get embarrassed when
terrorist scumbags use their talking points?
Yes...i just read that Osama said that Islam has no taxes.
As a libertarian I am embarrassed that Islam has no taxes but we
do.
|9.7.07 @ 8:01PM|#
Cesar,
Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/carbom emissions
statement be judged on its scientific merits instead of its
political merits?
|9.7.07 @ 8:09PM|#
Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/carbom
emissions statement be judged on its scientific merits instead of
its political merits?
Let me know when you give up meaet eating, joe.
|9.7.07 @ 8:15PM|#
Cesar,
Shouldn't the truthlfulness of the meat eating/carbon emissions
hypothesis depend on its scientific merits, rather than its
political merits, or what I do?
And since you asked, I have drastically changed my meat consumption
to reduce my carbon footprint, thank you very much.
|9.7.07 @ 8:20PM|#
And since you asked, I have drastically changed my meat consumption
to reduce my carbon footprint, thank you very much.
PETA says thats not enough joe!
Oh, and if you have kids you shouldn't be using disposable diapers!
And you shouldn't drive very much. And don't leave your iPod
plugged in when its fully charged. And you should probably live in
Florida instead of Massachusetts to reduce your natural gas/oil
consumption! Don't want to lie in a warm climate to reduce your
"carbon footprint"? Your not serious about the threat!
|9.7.07 @ 8:30PM|#
Who cares what PETA says is enough?
Shouldn't the truthfulness of the meat eating/global warming
hypothesis depend on its scientific merits, not its political
merits, what I do, or what PETA thinks is enough?
As far as your other suggestions go, the auto-dependency mandated
by the sprawl pattern that dominates Flordia vastly increases one's
carbon footprint, compared to the urbanist living arrangements
available in Massachusetts.
|9.7.07 @ 8:31PM|#
Cesar,
The Freeman say your opposition to big government isn't enough! You
should be stockpiling weapons and canned food, blah blah blah blah
blah...
|9.7.07 @ 8:36PM|#
The Freeman say your opposition to big government isn't
enough! You should be stockpiling weapons and canned food, blah
blah blah blah blah...
I say the freeman are full of shit. They are using a very real
concern about the growth of government to further their extreme
ideological views/
I actually believe there is a lot of truth to global warming, but
when every crackpot group on earth tries to use it to further their
crackpot agendas I have to wonder if they are being truthful. Don't
you?
You don't think PETA is abusing a very important issue to further
their ideological agenda?
|9.7.07 @ 8:44PM|#
Cesar,
It is healthy to be skeptical when a group with an agenda latches
onto an issue like this.
But PETA is right on this one. Meat production produces vastly more
carbon emissions per calorie than vegetable or grain
production.
Skepticism isn't the same thing as Lysenkonism.
|9.7.07 @ 8:51PM|#
My all-time favorite bumper sticker:
"Back to the Pleistocene", being sold at an Earth First
meeting.
Made of plastic, of course, and meant to be stuck to the bumper of
your car.
|9.7.07 @ 9:15PM|#
I drastically reduced my meat consumption to reduce the level of carbon in my fat freaking belly. So far it seems to be working, and my own emissions are down as well.
|9.7.07 @ 9:58PM|#
PETA says we should all be vegans to help reduce global warming. Let me know when you do your part!
|9.7.07 @ 10:56PM|#
I kind of wonder why OBL's video gets released by the media. After all, they didn't air the Virginia Tech shooter's video. The two men differ only in degree.
|9.8.07 @ 12:15AM|#
I had to look it up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Point being, making decisions about scientific matters on the basis
of politics is stupid. Then it was about explaining genetic traits
vs collectivist agrigulture. Now it's about Global warming vs. the
status quo. In this regard, both OBL and various Climate Septics
are 'Lysenkoistic' in their response.
|9.8.07 @ 12:42AM|#
p.s.
I am under the increasing suspicion that this Administration does
not actually want OBL to be found as that would help put an end to
the war profiteering going on.
http://tinyurl.com/2fzcta
|9.8.07 @ 1:28AM|#
Just for the record.. Osama's father owned a number of cement
plants, among other business ventures. The money with which he
financed his army of concubines and bastards is just as CO2-tainted
as that of any other tycoon you care to name.
Incidentally, Osama is the ultimate poster boy for the hazards of
rich kids going bad. He beats the Kennedys all to hell.
-jcr
|9.8.07 @ 1:30AM|#
"Skepticism isn't the same thing as Lysenkonism."
Lysenko was a woo-woo of the first order. I can't imagine how
anyone could associate him with skepticism.
-jcr
|9.8.07 @ 4:15AM|#
"Lysenko was a woo-woo of the first order. I can't imagine how
anyone could associate him with skepticism."
It's the poser 'septics' who call themselves 'skeptics' who are
under comaprison with Lysenko. They reject actual science in favor
of political theater. Ron Bailey may be considered a recovering
'Climate-Septic'. Though this is I think somewhat unfair;
enviro-causes are often too political to not deserve automatic
initial skepticism. It's the persistently septical to watchout
for.
|9.8.07 @ 5:54AM|#
Cesar-
Are you going to address joe's point about judging the scientific
merits of meat eating's environmental effects, or are you just
going to keep asking 'are you vegan yet? are you vegan yet? are you
vegan yet?'
Joe is right about that issue - and PETA's desire that everyone go
vegan for animals and the environment is really not different than
talk of abolishing the IRS for economic and individual freedom.
|9.8.07 @ 7:37AM|#
"Hardline" fused Islam and deep ecology oh so long
ago.
Such is the power of our culture... just when I'd was pretty sure I
had heard the dumbest fucking thing ever, along comes "Hardline"
vomited up like a retarded hairball by our friends at
wikipedia.
As for the rest of it, we always get in the weird fights over this
sort of stuff. Vegans can be vegans. Most libertarians don't care,
as long as they aren't trying to legislate everyone else into being
vegans too.
Of course, many leftists have a tendency to reframe what
libertarians see as ethical stances into moral stances, and our
culture seems to have little problem legislating "morals" when the
right comes up with them.
PETA gets mocked so much because they are assholes. In fact, I'm
pretty sure they come up with the most retarded stuff so they can
be mocked and gain victim sympathy. They are single issue trolls.
If we didn't feed them, they'd probably just go away.
The environment is a red herring for them in this case. Even if
meat production wasn't a higher carbon producer than strict plant
diets, PETA would still be against eating meat. It's no different
than born-again Christians pointing to study that proves a link
between prayer and low blood pressure. OK, maybe it does, but if a
different study showed it wasn't true, would they all stop
praying?
Scientific evidence that bolsters a moral argument doesn't
magically transform it into an objective slam-dunk.
Anyway, what happen to your vacation, joe? I'm not trying to get
rid of you, I just want you well rested the next time something
comes up we can have a real argument about...
|9.8.07 @ 11:13AM|#
If eating meat contributes to global warming, I just don't see it. If the ratio of plant mass to animal mass (I know it's not that simple) is decreasing perhaps we have an issue to talk about. To date I have not seen any papers presenting evidence of that thappening. My understanding is the aspects of global warming caused by humans is the consumption of fossil fuels. Essentially releasing carbon that was removed from the atmosphere over megayears in a very short perion of time. That incidentally indicates that landfill are a positive in the global warming sceme of things. Granted, a pig eats plants and releases CO2 as part of respiration. The lack of said pig indicates that some other CO2 producers, (animals or barcteria) will consume the plant and release the aforementioned CO2. Methane is a seperate issue. Perhaps beef should be removed from or diets, but that certainly doesn't mean all meat.
|9.8.07 @ 11:33AM|#
My previous post on this thread is an example of poor composition, but I think the points made are clear enough.
|9.8.07 @ 12:04PM|#
Lib Vegan-
I'm not going to do something thats very harmful to my physical and
mental health because it may help stop global warming. Which
veganism is. I've known quite a lot of people who have or are
currently vegans, they tend to look sickly, pale, and sleep a lot.
Anecdotal, I know, but humans are omnivores by nature. It doesn't
seem right to me to refrain from animal products.
|9.8.07 @ 12:09PM|#
And when someone a little more objective than PETA puts out a
report that says meat eating seriously worsens global warming, then
I
ll look at the arguments.
|9.8.07 @ 12:17PM|#
Well, H&R isn't a vegan blog, so i'm not here to argue the
vegan case. PETA makes a convenient pinata and they are
lefty-dominated, but the more interesting point is how quickly
people here engage in ad hominem and assume that the argument
regarding environmental issues and meat eating must be without
merit.
Certainly there are places to look into that issue in detail, and
H&R isn't one of them, I suppose. I don't want to hijack the
thread but here's some more info if anyone's interested:
http://www.goveg.com/environment-globalwarming.asp
|9.8.07 @ 12:24PM|#
Lib Vegan find something like an academic article or journal on the issue. Goveg.com is also not a source I would trust, really. Something tells me they might lean one way on the issue.
SIV|9.8.07 @ 12:43PM|#
...and PETA's desire that everyone go vegan for animals and
the environment is really not different than talk of abolishing the
IRS for economic and individual freedom.....
Yeah, cause freedom is all about restricting choice.
as long as they aren't trying to legislate everyone else into
being vegans too
The animal rights proponents are. Some even engage in terrorism to
stop scientific experimentation involving animals.
|9.8.07 @ 2:59PM|#
Cesar-
In the enlightened internet age, a certain amount of interest in
the subject and actual work on your part might be required if
you're to think about this issue and come to your own conclusion.
If you don't like what you're being spoon-fed, then be a big boy
and feed yourself. Of course, you could always retreat to your
previous and very-convincing "PETA said it so it must be crazy"
position. Yeah, we libertarians are SO much more thoughtful about
things....
SIV-
I'm not aware of any legislation or attempts to use force to change
people's diet from the vegan community. Educating people through
private donations and asking them to change their opinions on
issues such as meat-eating, personal freedom, or the evils of
taxation seems pretty "free market" to me - whether it's PETA or
Reason or anyone else.
If you cannot separate the idea of veganism from the specific
philosphical and moral issue of animal experimentation, you should
spend some time on Wikipedia.
There are legitimate philosophical positions on both sides of that
debate, wouldn't you agree? And I can't believe you used the word
"Terrorism". You know, in the post 9-11 world...
|9.8.07 @ 3:07PM|#
Cesar-
Vegans are weak and sickly? And libertarians are crazy paranoid gun
nuts.
Anecdotes are fun! Yay!
|9.8.07 @ 3:28PM|#
Vegans are weak and sickly? And libertarians are crazy
paranoid gun nuts.
Anecdotes are fun! Yay!
Remember we don't believe in roads either ;)
|9.8.07 @ 3:52PM|#
Uh, oh. How am I going to get to work, then?
I must not be libertarian enough...
Toll roads! :P Besides that will make people drive less, which will
reduce global warming!
I'll google stuff about the meat eating and global warming things,
but color me sceptical.
Since I live in the city and walk most places, drive a diesel car
when I do drive, and live in a warm climate where I don't have to
use much oil or natural gas in the winter I honestly think I'm
doing enough without giving up my protein.
|9.8.07 @ 5:08PM|#
Everybody's got to find their own comfort level, Cesar - I don't
tell people what to eat.
I just want people to not dismiss things out of hand - but think
about them on their scientific merits and don't judge all veg
issues on the most extreme views of PETA or other
organizations.
I think those of us in the libertarian community are used to having
our positions caricatured and dismissed - those of us in the veg
community have the same problem.
Even worse when you're in both camps, trust me...
SIV|9.8.07 @ 6:32PM|#
I've met people who brag they haven't read a book since HS or
University, people who proudly refuse to watch a movie in B&W,
and people who triumphally pronounce that they don't consume animal
products.
It is your choice to limit your experience, but I don't see the
first two picketing book stores, libraries and theaters.I've seen
vegans protesting fur stores and the KFC. They also disrupt hunting
and fishing opening days.
|9.8.07 @ 6:52PM|#
Technically, if you really want to do your part to slow down
global warming, you should stop eating meat, sell your car and ride
a bicycle, get your food and clothes out of dumpsters, become
homeless, and stop all electricity usage, including quitting using
computers.
In other words, if you're on this thread arguing we need to do more
to stop global warming, you're a hypocrite and part of the
problem.
I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course.
|9.8.07 @ 11:18PM|#
"In other words, if you're on this thread arguing we need to do
more to stop global warming, you're a hypocrite and part of the
problem."
If that's whats actually argued for then it would be; but it's not.
What you are describing is mostly the fearful imaginings of
anti-hippies.
While there are a few enviro-nazis who would so advocate, the
mainstream environmental realises that people want and need a
realistic econmical plan to both minimize and adapt to climate
change. Sierra Club's '2% Plan' is a good example of htis
realism.
"I mean that in the nicest possible way, of course."
No you aren't! If you were sincerely nice you would have done some
homework, and so tempered your statement. Homework like this:
http://www.sierraclub.org/twopercent/
|9.9.07 @ 6:32AM|#
SIV-
Disrupting fishing and protesting fur? Damn that free expression!
Oh, the irony - you really don't see this?
Well, you probably don't do illegal drugs such as heroin and
methamphetamine. You probably don't juggle or play the violin,
either. I guess that's your choice to "limit your
experience."
Of all the places on the internet, you'd think a libertarian blog
would be one place where people would be celebrating free
expression and individual choice. I guess just about some issues,
though - right?
Prolefeed-
This is exactly the kind of ridiculous mis- characterization I'm
talking about. Well if you're a Libertarian and you don't live off
the grid completely, refuse to pay taxes, or own 46 guns, then
you're just a hypocrite. So, if you're using government provided
power you paid for to power your computer (that computer you also
paid sales taxes on) then technically "YOU'RE" a hypocrite and part
of the problem.
Wow, that was easy. I don't even have to actually construct an
argument or think about individual issues in a detailed way so I
can make my own decision. What a fun way to "argue" the
issues.
Learning Points:
1. Freedom of choice and expression is good but only if it's on a
some issues. Other issues will be laughed about without any real
consideration of their merits. Just the way non-Libertarians laugh
at our proposals about limited government. This obvious hypocrisy
will be COMPLETELY lost on prominent posters here.
2. Global warming must be crap because come groups, thought to be
crazy "one-issue trolls" talk about it.
H&R - dedication to critical thinking.[/sarcasm]
|9.9.07 @ 9:15AM|#
Sam-Hec: Using the phrases "Sierra Club" and "realism" in the
same sentence without intending huge levels of sarcasm is LOL
naive.
LibVegan -- Left the and off my 6:52pm post. I thought it was
implied, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.
Also needing to be spelled out, apparently, is the fact that we're
near the end of an effing interglacial, and that if nothing is done
we're liable to eventually see mile-high glaciers once again
covering cities like Seattle and Chicago again in geological time
frames. That's the really big picture, and if you get it, then
pumping some of the stored carbon in the earth into the atmosphere
to mitigate this looming long-term ecological nightmare is quite
possibly the most rational and virtuous thing to do -- a Woody
Allen Sleeper moment writ large. But, hey, keep on believing all
the BS of the leftist socialists at the Sierra Club.
In any event, market forces will result in most of the easily
accessible carbon on the planet being burned, if not by us, then by
China and India. Buying into some Kyoto Protocol type arrangement
where we agree to cut back on energy consumption without any limits
on Third World energy consumption will simply transfer economic
growth from our economy to their economy. Look up "fungibility" in
Wikipedia, especially as it relates to nations and power, if you're
still scratching your head over the unanimous refusal of the U.S.
Senate to be a signatory to that bloody treaty.
Lighten up, d00ds. Try to be happy, and not get your knickers in a
twist about things you can't (and arguably shouldn't even try to)
control.
|9.9.07 @ 9:24AM|#
Take two for 9:15am post:
Left the "sarcasm" and "/sarcasm" off my 6:52pm post. I thought it
was implied, but apparently it needed to be spelled out.
******
Also, insert "pokes fun at Chicken Littles" and "/pokes fun at
Chicken Littles" at beginning and end of 9:15am post.
Must. Preview.
|9.9.07 @ 9:54AM|#
Prolefeed-
Thanks for your summary of the coming "ecological nightmare".
It seems your prediction is at odds not only with what the Sierra
Club thinks (whatever that is), but mainstream climate scientists
as well.
And they say we libertarians are conspiracy theorists...
|9.9.07 @ 2:26PM|#
Prolefeed wrote:
"Also needing to be spelled out, apparently, is the fact that we're
near the end of an effing interglacial, and that if nothing is done
we're liable to eventually see mile-high glaciers once again
covering cities like Seattle and Chicago again in geological time
frames."
wow you really don't do homework. What you are saying is very much
at odds with current climatology prdictions. There is NO immenant
Ice Age! Any such thing is about 50,000 years away. And if one
actually read the small amount of science (since corrected) behind
the ice age scare of the 70's, one would have seen a prediction for
20,000 years.
http://www.wmconnolley.org.uk/sci/iceage/
If the goal of CO2 emmissions is to forestall an Ice Age, we have
failed miserably in doing that...we are just making an Interglacial
hotter and more chaotic; this serves only to stress out our nacent
global civilization.
Here again is a link to another greenie site with realistic
economical suggestions for minimizing CO2 without going broke, nor
destroying freedoms, etc.
http://www.climatecrisis.net/takeaction/whatyoucando/
and nowhere in the GreenPeace Green Living Guide does it demand
that we live in Mud-Huts™ if not Homelessness, dumpsterdiving or
any other onerous thing:
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/green-living-guide
SIV|9.9.07 @ 10:23PM|#
Well, you probably don't do illegal drugs such as heroin and
methamphetamine. You probably don't juggle or play the violin,
either.
Lib Vegan,
Actually the violin is the only one I haven't tried. I'm pretty
good with the juggling and the heroin!
Just because it is "legal free expression" ( and the hunting,
fishing, fur protests often aren't)doesn't mean I am wrong to
condemn them.
I may use my free expression to oppose protests against freedom and
liberty.
I am in full enthusiastic support of every whaler who has freely
expressed a harpoon into a GreenPeace vessel.
SIV|9.9.07 @ 10:29PM|#
Lib Vegan,
You're for limiting government(supposedly), yet you are for
limiting property rights. You might oughta study up on this
"libertarian" thing.
|9.10.07 @ 12:48AM|#
SIV-
I'm glad to see you aren't limiting your experience with regards to
heroin. Let us know how that goes for you.
You're right - it's not wrong to oppose speech you don't agree with
by using more speech - but isn't that exactly what those protesters
you're talking about are doing?
How have I expressed an opinion supporting the limitation of
property rights? You ought to study up on that "non sequitur"
thing.
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