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Two More Isolated Incidents
First, in Temecula, California:
While Williams said he could not discuss specifics, he did confirm that a raid conducted by the Street Enforcement Team last week ---- which ended up at the wrong Temecula house ---- is part of the administrative investigation.
[...]
Williams said he believes the team was supposed to be raiding a parolee's home Aug. 24 when they inadvertently hit the wrong door.
Officers ended up at the home of David and Lillian Scott, just off Rancho California Road.
Lillian Scott said she and her husband were in the living room discussing family plans, their 15-year-old daughter was in the garage with two friends and their 16-year-old son was in another room feeding the Scotts' 5-month-old baby.
That all changed at 9:35 p.m. she said, when Temecula police officers ---- four or five, she's not sure ----- carrying rifles charged though the unlocked front screen door and ordered the couple to the floor.
"Two of them came over and put handcuffs on the two of us," Lillian Scott said. "We asked what we had done wrong and didn't get an answer."
Elsewhere in the house other officers handcuffed their daughter and her two friends.
"(The officers) told them to get down on the f---ing floor," she said.
Her 16-year-old son, who was feeding the baby, was also ordered to the floor and handcuffed, Scott said.
From the other room, Scott heard her infant crying.
"I asked if my baby was OK and the officer told me if I moved he was going to put a bullet in my head," Scott said.
The officers apparently figured out they'd hit the wrong home when they'd cleared the second floor, then realized they were only supposed to be in a one-story home, something you'd think they might have verified before tearing down the front door. Here, at least, the city has been apologetic, and is talking about making a settlement offer to the family.
The second comes from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania:
The door had to be repaired this morning after police reportedly rammed it during a raid on Norma Saunders South Philadelphia home Friday night. Her bedrooms were ransacked, drawers overturned and kitchen cupboards emptied onto the floor. According to a search warrant, police were looking for drugs and weapons.
Away for a family reunion at the time, Saunders returned when her alarm company called. When she returned she found the security system was ripped from the wall.
Norma tells Action News, "When I came home my neighbors ran up to me and said, 'Norma they had the wrong house. We tried to tell them they had the wrong house.'"
"This has never been a drug house. We've never had a problem with this home at all. So this I knew this had to be a major mistake," said Reverend Tobin Young.
Neighbors say police simultaneously raided another house on the block and placed several people in handcuffs.
68-year-old Saunders, a great-grandparent and retired veterans hospital nurse with heart problems, contends she has no dealings with drugs, nor does her 50-year-old son who works security at Abington Hospital while pursuing a college degree in computer science.
At least they weren't home to experience the violence in person. Archive of botched raid posts just since I came to reason last November here.
|9.2.07 @ 4:16PM|#
The officers apparently figured out they'd hit the wrong home when they'd cleared the second floor, then realized they were only supposed to be in a one-story home, something you'd think they might have verified before tearing down the front door.
You would think that the law enforcement communioty would get
embarrassed by the continual screwups with SWAT raids. You might
surmise they would at least ensure that they have the right
address, reliable pre-raid intelligence, etc.
You would be wrong.
|9.2.07 @ 4:47PM|#
"I asked if my baby was OK and the officer told me if I
moved he was going to put a bullet in my head," Scott
said.
I think we have a contender for the new Temecula PD motto.
|9.2.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Radley,
I'm a mad, frothing addict and what I crave is . . . the return of
Drug Propaganda Thursday. This shit is too depressing. I want to
see something like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pObLisvgRLk
The Wine Commonsewer|9.2.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Rancho California Road is wine country man. Is nothing SACRED?
|9.2.07 @ 5:00PM|#
TWC-
They don't mean to mess with your supply of alcohol, they just want
to stop people from using Drugs.
dhex|9.2.07 @ 5:01PM|#
You would think that the law enforcement communioty would
get embarrassed by the continual screwups with SWAT
raids.
why? after all our safety is their concern.
John Q. Publius|9.2.07 @ 6:40PM|#
Do any of these reporters ever ask for some justification for the originally planned raid (at correct address)? The assumption in these articles (always?) seems to be that these actions would have been just swell if they had been carried out on the right address.
edna|9.2.07 @ 7:29PM|#
Rancho California Road is wine country man.
to use the term loosely.
but if they hit joe hart's winery, i will personally unleash the
hounds of hell.
|9.2.07 @ 8:27PM|#
Obviously the City of Temecula PD is still proud of their
"Street Enforcement Team" as they haven't removed them from their
website.
http://www.cityoftemecula.org/Temecula/Government/Police/Teams/StreetEnforcementTeam.htm
You'd think they'd be smarter than that but then again if they
think a 2-story house is a 1-story house.....
Matt|9.2.07 @ 9:04PM|#
J sub D: Well, I think you do gotta love cops - when they're doing their job. When they're not doing their job (botching it dangerously in fact), there needs to be severe consequences.
Allen|9.2.07 @ 9:14PM|#
I'd love to see an officer safety issue brought up with this.
Many departments do things such as have 2 officers per car for the
sake of the safety of the officers. Safety is a big issue for any
PD. But if those in charge can't get their game plan together on
such a basic thing as a houses location, how good of a job are they
doing at preparing for these things? And if they're not preparing
well, what unnecessary risks are occurring?
And the bullet in the head comment takes the cake. Real
professional to phrase it that way.
|9.2.07 @ 9:26PM|#
Don't you all get it? It's all a self perpetuating entity. It's a farce. It has nothing to do with public safety or you or I. The Constabulary, The Judiciary, The Legislature, The Penal System all exists for it's own benefit and the whole Anglo System that controls and controls and bans and bans, laws and laws....
|9.2.07 @ 9:27PM|#
I don't see why they can't serve a warrant without terrorizing anybody. If they're worried about somebody flushing the evidence, then just turn off the water at the main before they serve. This c**p is all a consequence of the 'war on drugs'. You can see how successful it is. Obviously, nobody can buy drugs anywhere in the US. The Halstead Act didn't work and this isn't working either. We get a bunch of terrorized civilians while the druggies just laugh.
iih|9.2.07 @ 9:27PM|#
after all our safety is their concern
While the cop who pulls me over for speeding may in theory be doing
this to protect the public from the tentative harmful consequences
of my speeding, it no longer feels that way. It feels like
"Gotcha!" It feels like "I am going to hide my cruiser where no one
will be able to see it and I am going to nail you for speeding."
The police is now a business, seems detached from our safety is
their concern concept. It seems more like a game. If I do
speed on a highway section that is absolutely empty and my speeding
does not harm or endanger anyone other than myself in the case of
an accident (setting aside any harm inflicted on the physical
condition of the road for the sake of argument), shouldn't I at
best be stopped (if a cop really had to) and just warn me not to
speed?
But mentioning speed limits, may be it is just me being annoyed
with speed (over)limits in north America. If today's cars (on
average) can do well (with all the safety features on most cars
made in the 1990s and later) on the road at 75 or 80 mph, so why
not? Michigan has the most sensible speeding "norms" (not laws). I
think they are very reasonable. The limit is 70, but the norm is 80
almost everywhere. In New England they are very serious about
implementing the law, with very little room for any "sensible
norms" that go beyond the letter of the law.
iih|9.2.07 @ 9:33PM|#
I did not mean to divert attention from police using excessive and possibly misplaced force, but my intention was to highlight the fact that "misplaced" law enforcement is more pervasive than the war on drugs, etc.
|9.2.07 @ 9:33PM|#
"If they're worried about somebody flushing the evidence, then
just turn off the water at the main before they serve."
You might want to review how toilets work. The big box at the rear
isn't just a backrest.
iih|9.2.07 @ 9:50PM|#
Michigan has the most sensible speeding "norms" (not
laws)
That is, of all the states & provinces I drove in.
|9.2.07 @ 10:02PM|#
I live, born and raised in SE Michigan and haven't a clue why anyone would praise this virtual police state for any reason... Have you ever lived here Sir??? also in other states,(save the Pac NW and New Eng) Canada, Mexico, Western Europe,the western world at large. Get Queen Victoria out of my personal life,family,sex life,beliefs,child rearing,lifestyle and decision making in general.
iih|9.2.07 @ 10:08PM|#
I live, born and raised in SE Michigan and haven't a clue
why anyone would praise this virtual police state for any
reason
I thought so too (I lived in Ann Arbor for 5 years), until I moved
to New England. It is 100 times more regulated (except NH). MA is a
heavily policed, heavily regulated state compared to MI.
|9.2.07 @ 10:29PM|#
I'm looking forward to a single article (book?) detailing all of the 'isolated incidents' covering a single year. It would provide a little shock value to many Americans who still seem unaware of the damage done by the WOG.
|9.2.07 @ 10:38PM|#
I'm looking forward to a single article (book?) detailing
all of the 'isolated incidents' covering a single year. It would
provide a little shock value to many Americans who still seem
unaware of the damage done by the WOG.
Radely you should definitely write that!
lunchstealer|9.2.07 @ 11:07PM|#
When she returned she found the security system was ripped
from the wall.
OK, seriously, that's just got to be malicious destruction of
property. There's just no justifiable reason that they have to even
touch the alarm system. They should be held accountable,
disciplinarily, for damage that they do which isn't related to
carrying out their warrant.
In fact, If there's no one home, they should be able to execute
their search without doing any damage. A search warrant, even a
no-knock warrant, isn't a fuck-up-their-shit warrant. It's not like
you have to find the evidence fast and get out before the cops show
up or something. The bad guys can't exactly call in an artillery
strike on the police position if they take too long. Once the house
is secured, then they should be able to leave anything that isn't
locked more-or-less undamaged. Doing anything else is just being a
dick to intimidate the civilians.
|9.2.07 @ 11:44PM|#
I wonder if this stuff happens more in those places that have an
IQ limit for hiring cops?
Wonder no more what the stupid bullies that tomented you in school
are doing today. They now have guns and get paid to bully.
These victims should get the big money, instead of some of the
idiots that sue the city over stupid stuff.
|9.3.07 @ 12:20AM|#
"Radely you should definitely write that!"
He did. I can't find the thing now. Radley did an excellent 100 or
so paged report on all of these "exceptions" to normally infallible
police behavior, can't remember the title or find the damned thing
in my apartment now. The basic idea was "Swat teams gone wild...a
survey."
Thank you for keeping an eye on all this Radley. A lot of us are
paying attention.
|9.3.07 @ 1:39AM|#
Developing a proactive Police Dept with key
teams to focus on critical problem areas while maintaining staffing
levels at the highest possible levels.
Good work Chuck.
http://www.cityoftemecula.org/Temecula/Government/CouncilCommissions/CityCouncil/ChuckWashington.htm
|9.3.07 @ 1:52AM|#
Got here via Instapundit, who says, "There needs to be a much,
much higher price for this sort of mistake."
Indeed.
For a first approximation, let's try this: suppose you and I and a
couple of our buddies were the ones who invaded the Scott home,
pointed our rifles at the occupants, etc. etc.
How many years would we be going away for? There's your
answer, except that probably we should double the sentence for
doing it under the color of law.
|9.3.07 @ 2:32AM|#
I've about had it with these "settlement" offers that always
consist of forking over a pile of taxpayer's money to the victims,
and NEVER includes any personal consequences for the Barney Fifes
who fuck these raids up.
If, heaven forbid, I'm ever on the receiving end of one of these
illegal break-ins by gangsters in blue, the only settlement offer
I'll consider will be the firing and removal of all pension
benefits from whoever ordered the raid.
-jcr
|9.3.07 @ 3:47AM|#
Not for a minute am I going to buy that someone who comes into my home and threatens to "put a bullet into" my head is a LEO operating in good faith. That's completely unacceptable. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's criminal.
|9.3.07 @ 8:36AM|#
As someone who has a history of law enforcement in the family I find this action frightening. I have two uncles who are sargents, a grandfather who was a chief of police, and my father was a district justice. They all would have been apalled by the shoddy and totally iresponsible preperation of these raids.
|9.3.07 @ 9:59AM|#
The rationalle behind no-knock is all flawed. The only circumstance I can consider it is a hostage situation. A wrong door raid should, at the very least, cost every one involved up to the judge their jobs and pensions. Modern chemistry makes it impossible to flush or burn drugs beyond identification.
Bretigne|9.3.07 @ 9:59AM|#
Radley, is there a reason criminal charges aren't/can't be filed against these people or their departments? Just curious...
The Wine Commonsewer|9.3.07 @ 10:40AM|#
but if they hit joe hart's winery, i will personally unleash the
hounds of hell.
Edna, Joe Hart's winery is the semi-official Libertarian Club
winery. We used to do an annual 4th of July Bash at the Casa and a
good number of attendees were friends that came from the old
Prodigy Libertarian Club BB. Several of them were true wine
aficionados and would show up with bottles of fine red.
On July 5 we'd adjourn to Joe Hart's winery to sit under the
Sycamore's and drink his wine and resolve all the problems of the
world. Got a great picture somewhere of my son in his ratty old
stroller with a cigar in one hand and a glass of Hart cab in the
other.
Still have one bottle of Hart cab left, which they haven't made in
years since the sharpshooters killed the cab vines.
ktc2|9.3.07 @ 10:44AM|#
Bretigne,
At a guess I'd say "sovereign immunity".
Another concept that needs to go.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.3.07 @ 10:46AM|#
using the term loosely
There's always been a few decent to good wineries in the valley but
in the last few years there has been some serious investment, the
result has been overwhelmingly positive except for the crowds. Like
Paso at harvest, there's no room at the inn anymore.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.3.07 @ 10:50AM|#
They don't mean to mess with your supply of alcohol, they
just want to stop people from using Drugs.
Interesting, too, because Temecula is a mostly upscale with lots of
high-tech industry. It don't exactly have a reputation for drug
dealing. That would be Aguanga, about thirty miles up into the
hills where they make all the meth.
|9.3.07 @ 11:24AM|#
"I asked if my baby was OK and the officer told me if I
moved he was going to put a bullet in my head," Scott
said.
Doesn't just saying this constitute the tort of assault?
Swen Swenson|9.3.07 @ 11:56AM|#
What? They didn't handcuff the Scotts' 5-month-old baby?? Don't they care about officer safety??? Amateurs.
dhex|9.3.07 @ 12:40PM|#
it's the bullet in the head line that grabs me, for two
reasons:
1) the obvious: it's fucking crazy
2) she was handcuffed on the ground. what's she going to do?
FuckThePolice|9.3.07 @ 1:12PM|#
We need to stop this shit now. The cop who threatened to shoot
her should be tied down and beaten in the balls until his body
simply gives up and stops producing testosterone. Fuck these
animals. Fuck them in the ass with spiked clubs.
We nned an anti-monstercop Dexter.
|9.3.07 @ 1:32PM|#
Radley, is there a reason criminal charges aren't/can't be
filed against these people or their departments?
As ktc2 says, sovereign immunity would block any civil action, and
prosecutorial discretion will effectively block any criminal
charges unless there's a massive media blitz or federal involvement
(eg, Rodney King).
Remember, judges and prosecutors consider cops to be their law
enforcement teammates. You don't betray your teammate.
Constabulary advocate|9.3.07 @ 1:36PM|#
what's she going to do?
Distract him from his duties. What if something went wrong that
required his full attention while he had to monitor her movements?
Someone could get hurt, and it would be her doing, but his fault
because had had failed to enlist her cooperation.
|9.3.07 @ 1:37PM|#
If today's cars (on average) can do well (with all the
safety features on most cars made in the 1990s and later) on the
road at 75 or 80 mph, so why not?
The original reasoning behind the Interstate speed limit was to
conserve gasoline during the '70s oil embargo, as cars generally
have peak fuel efficiency around 55mph and drop off pretty quickly
at higher speeds. It was kept after the embargo ended partly due to
safety concerns, partly due to inertia, but mostly because states
really liked speeding ticket revenue.
Billy Beck|9.3.07 @ 1:48PM|#
"What if something went wrong that required his full
attention while he had to monitor her movements?"
{nod} Damned good point. I say: nuke her from orbit. "It's the only
way to be sure."
|9.3.07 @ 3:56PM|#
advocate,
Isn't having to watch for any signs of movement from the handcuffed
woman already a pretty big distraction from his duties?
LarryA|9.3.07 @ 4:20PM|#
Distract him from his duties.
If the cop had a heart, you'd think a crying baby would be at least
as distracting as a handcuffed mother asking if her infant was
okay.
Unfortunately it will take someone like Paris Hilton getting blown
away in a botched raid before this kind of story gains Big Media's
attention.
iih|9.3.07 @ 5:14PM|#
The original reasoning behind the Interstate speed limit was
to conserve gasoline during the '70s oil embargo, as cars generally
have peak fuel efficiency around 55mph and drop off pretty quickly
at higher speeds. It was kept after the embargo ended partly due to
safety concerns, partly due to inertia, but mostly because states
really liked speeding ticket revenue.
So can one say that the WOD and speeding tickets are both meant to
generate (unnecessary?) things for the PD to do, and hence higher
pays and the creation of unnecessary jobs? I think this is part of
my initial comment -- that police is becoming ever more (and
unfairly) invasive of the people's rights, where the motto has
changed from "protecting the people" to something more like "we,
the 'Cops Ltd.' vs. the people"?
By the way, if speed limits are meant to curb gas usage, then again
I think it should be left to the car's owners. May be s/he is rich
and can afford it. If it were a matter of safety, I would say
"well, at least raise speed limits, after all today's cars are much
safer than those built in the 60s and 70s". If it is a question of
environmentalism (which is linked to optimum speeds for fuel
consumption), then put a tax on gas purchase (I personally would
not mind that -- it is the price I pay for polluting the
environment and, hence, possibly increasing health premiums for
other members of society).
|9.3.07 @ 7:00PM|#
It would have been better if the cop had said "Go ahead and do it. Dead or alive, you're coming with me."
Thomas Paine\'s Goiter|9.3.07 @ 7:10PM|#
Interesting, too, because Temecula is a mostly upscale with
lots of high-tech industry. It don't exactly have a reputation for
drug dealing. That would be Aguanga, about thirty miles up into the
hills where they make all the meth.
That's what idiot regular citizens like you think. Thank goodness
for the proactive police force of Temecula.
|9.3.07 @ 9:29PM|#
"If the cop had a heart,"
BIG if. These SWAT stormtroopers need to be put in jail for their
crimes.
|9.4.07 @ 2:51AM|#
SOMEONE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE BALLS TO ADVOCATE FOR THE CONSTABULARY??? I thought that's what Lawyers, PR people, Video Cameras and Blanket Immunity were for. By the way, It's not distracting at all to yell life threats at gunpoint to bound and secured, disarmed and rendered ineffectual women on the floor. Cops have the ability to multi task when it serves their purposes.....
|9.4.07 @ 6:37AM|#
No-Knock Raids: WOW, And I thought that serving a warrant, or
making someone accompany you to the police station involved some
sort of interaction with the suspects. Some advising of the
suspects about the purpose of the search, the charges if there are
any, and their rights if there is an arrest. A receipt for any
destruction of property, and for any seizure. When did the
Constitution become void?
Use of lethal (or for that matter non-lethal) force against people
who are in NO WAY armed violent criminals, who hold no hostages and
have not attacked police officers: I understood that the weapons,
lethal and non-lethal given to police officers were for
SELF-DEFENSE and for the protection of the innocent from armed
suspects. When did that change? When did they become the MILITARY,
with military rules of engagement?
lunchstealer|9.4.07 @ 9:56AM|#
it's the bullet in the head line that grabs me, for two
reasons:
1) the obvious: it's fucking crazy
2) she was handcuffed on the ground. what's she going to
do?
3) Since he can't, under any rules of engagement I've ever heard
of, shoot a person who doesn't pose a credible, direct threat
(distraction is not a threat) he has no legal right to shoot her
for moving. Thus to threaten to shoot her is to threaten to murder
her, which is a felony. The fact that policemen on no-knock raids
feel empowered to maliciously destroy property, make death threats
against helpless, bound citizens, and generally do whatever the
fuck they feel like doing just to show that they're in charge shows
how deeply the war on drugs has undermined the rule of law in this
country.
The perverse incentives of the drug war are promoting increasing
lawlessness on the part of the representatives of our legal
system.
wsdave|9.4.07 @ 1:57PM|#
crimethink,
"...as cars generally have peak fuel efficiency around 55mph and
drop off pretty quickly at higher speeds."
Urban myth. 55 was the number set as a compromise between the 70
everyone was used to and the 40 that cars of the era (70's) ran
most efficiently at. Today's tech allows cars cars to run at "peak"
"efficiency" (subjective terms at best) at about 2,000 rpm (more or
less, give or take, depending on a ton of factors), regardless of
how fast the car is traveling.
wsdave|9.4.07 @ 2:02PM|#
Perhaps SWAT teams should hire these guys since they can't seem
to find the right house.
http://www.cascadeoc.org/
The Cascade Orienteering Club, 2006 U.S. Interscholastic
Orienteering Champions.
|9.4.07 @ 4:34PM|#
A recent Canadian study found that alcohol use fosters violence
but pot doesn't. Were these guys looking for a little weed?
As long as cops don't face criminal charges for criminal behavior,
these incidents will continue.
|9.4.07 @ 11:30PM|#
Unfortunately it will take someone like Paris Hilton getting
blown away in a botched raid before this kind of story gains Big
Media's attention.
Paris Hilton getting blown away in a botched raid would send
support for no-knock raids skyrocketing.
I really, REALLY wish someone had a tape of that thug in a police
officer's uniform threatening to shoot a woman asking about her
baby. Would be one of the most effective anti-war-on-drugs bits
ever.
The Wine Commonsewer|9.4.07 @ 11:46PM|#
Prior to the gas conservation crunch of the seventies, speed
limits were established to ensure the smooth flow of traffic in a
safe manner.
And even more useless trivial crap......Nevada had no speed limits
on the open highway until the gas crunch that came with federally
mandated double nickel speed limits.
BTW, just today as I was rocketing across the Arizona desert on a
pretty much empty stretch of highway I was struck by the fact that
we weren't passing anyone because those guys had the needle pushing
the century mark. Not me of course.
Modern technology and my politically incorrect truck conspired to
provide cruising speeds that are shocking in that when you glance
down and realize how fast you're going it gives you a heart attack.
And I still got 19 mpg.
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