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Washed Up Pitcher to Immigrants: Learn English!
Former Major League reliever John Rocker, who last
pitched for the Long Island Ducks, posting a pitiful 6.50 ERA in 23
games, has at last waded into the immigration debate. You might
remember Rocker's 2000 ethnographic study of New York, which he
succinctly summarized for Sports Illustrated: "It's the
most hectic, nerve-racking city. Imagine having to take the 7 Train
to the ballpark, looking like you're riding through Beirut next to
some kid with purple hair, next to some queer with AIDS, right next
to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time, right
next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. It's depressing." And
now, over at Johnrocker.net, the lantern-jawed yokel
sounds off on non-English speaking immigrants and explains the
impetus behind his "speak English" campaign:
In my own personal experiences, I have lived abroad for over a year of my life, three different times in Puerto Rico and once in Venezuela. During my time in these countries, I did my best to speak their language even though my Spanish is barely adequate. I attempted to speak the language whenever the situation presented itself and worked to learn the language better in order to avoid the ‘ugly American' stereotype.
And what better way to combat anti-American stereotypes then printing t-shirts demanding folks "speak English!" (Somebody send this guy's resume to Karen Hughes, STAT.) Also note that Rocker pats himself on the back not for learning Spanish, for his skills are "barely adequate," but for simply attempting to speak the language. C'mon you Spanish-speakers, at least try to fail like John Rocker!
|8.31.07 @ 2:28PM|#
In fairness, maybe he was distracted by another
broad.
I have no idea what you're...
Abdul|8.31.07 @ 2:30PM|#
Just looking at the picture, I find the argument on the right far more compelling than the argument on the left.
|8.31.07 @ 2:32PM|#
My question is why John Rocker wants to people here to speak English. What's wrong with American?
|8.31.07 @ 2:32PM|#
I really like the fact that the T-shirt on the right is angled for easier reading.
|8.31.07 @ 2:35PM|#
I want to start a T-Shirt campaign as well. Al the shirts will
say "John Rocker" on the front.
On the back, it will say, "Shut your big, fat overly paid, useless,
mashed potato-filled fucking head."
|8.31.07 @ 2:35PM|#
I can't believe nobody has made the slightest mention of the
awesome rack on that chick.
Oh, never mind.
|8.31.07 @ 2:35PM|#
Anyone want to bet that his I.Q. is lower than his ERA?
[I have no idea what an ERA average is, whether it is supposed to
be high or low, or why it matters. Please do not bother trying to
educate me as I loathe baseball.]
|8.31.07 @ 2:39PM|#
I wish he'd kept his trap closed. He was a closing machine for the Braves before he started talking and stuff.
Episiarch|8.31.07 @ 2:47PM|#
Is he's proving he's not racist by posing with the hot half black/half white (I guess?) chick? The sacrifices he must make.
|8.31.07 @ 2:47PM|#
People complain about immigrants who don't speak English in
situations like when they try to order food, or pay for stuff at
the grocery, or talk to someone on the street.
You know, when the immigrants ARE trying to speak English.
Immigrants today learn English faster than at any time in American
history, for exactly that reason - because now, more than at any
time in the past, immigrants are living in mainstream society,
rather than staying within non-English-speaking neighborhoods
during their work, home, and recreational lives, and trying to
speak English.
Hey, all you immigrants out there doing your best to master a
second language and get by in society - you really piss John Rocker
off.
So, good for you.
|8.31.07 @ 2:49PM|#
Inglés es tan fácil, hasta John Rocker lo puede aprender.
For the time being, until Hindi & Mandarin take over; English
is the world's language of commerce and science.
The only jobs open to you if you are a monolingual Spanish speaker
are cutting lawns, cleaning hotel rooms and pro baseball.
|8.31.07 @ 2:50PM|#
[I have no idea what an ERA average is, whether it is
supposed to be high or low, or why it matters. Please do not bother
trying to educate me as I loathe baseball.]
The Equal Rights Amendment was a proposed amendment to the United
States Constitution intended to guarantee equal rights under the
law for Americans regardless of sex. Amendments can be approved
according to the process in Article V of the Constitution. The
final deadline for approving the ERA passed in either 1979 or
1982-depending upon one's view of a controversial extension of the
ratification time constraint. In the intervening years, public
discussion on the ERA has been greatly reduced, though the proposal
has been reintroduced in every Congress since 1982.
|8.31.07 @ 2:51PM|#
My mother is an immigrant, and I nearly failed Spanish in high
school.
Would that make Rocker feel better?
|8.31.07 @ 2:52PM|#
Episiarch,
They are dating. And she has an undergraduate degree from UCONN in
Neuroscience and a graduate degree from Columbia University to go
with all that.
While a Long Island Duck, Rocker couldn't find home plate if he had
a Sherpa with him.
|8.31.07 @ 2:52PM|#
The only jobs open to you if you are a monolingual Spanish
speaker are cutting lawns, cleaning hotel rooms and pro
baseball.
That is total bullshit, and if you don't believe me, I'll bring
about 15 people from the office I'm in right now to tell you it's
bullshit.
PeeDub|8.31.07 @ 2:54PM|#
Despite the fact that he's a giant-sized moron, the sentiment is generally a good one. Speak the language where you are. I don't think that people complain so much that non English speakers are having difficulty in the grocery store; it's when ballots and public schools use Spanish as an alternative.
lunchstealer|8.31.07 @ 2:54PM|#
This is similar to his other T-Shirt campaigns, "HIRE STRIPPERS" and later "HIRE ME - PLEASE!"
|8.31.07 @ 2:54PM|#
from Rocker's website:
Modeling the t-shirts with John is Alicia Marie - fitness
athlete, freelance writer, and Ms. Bikini Universe 2004; for more
on Alicia Marie, visit www.aliciamarie.com.
My only question: where exactly is this Bikini Universe?
Episiarch|8.31.07 @ 2:58PM|#
They are dating. And she has an undergraduate degree from
UCONN in Neuroscience and a graduate degree from Columbia
University to go with all that.
Interesting. I wonder if she was there while I was, and if I nailed
her? So much of that time is a blur.
|8.31.07 @ 3:01PM|#
Also note that Rocker pats himself on the back not for
learning Spanish, for his skills are "barely adequate," but for
simply attempting to speak the language. C'mon you
Spanish-speakers, at least try to fail like John Rocker!
In Rocker's defense, if his Spanish skills are truly "barely
adequate" then that means he did not fail at learning Spanish.
|8.31.07 @ 3:02PM|#
My only question: where exactly is this Bikini
Universe?
Take I-95 south until you hit the exit: I-195 East, Miami Beach,
FL
|8.31.07 @ 3:04PM|#
I am an open boarders libertarian. I think we should solve the illegal immigration problem by making the all legal immigrants. However, I am also of the 'speak English' mindset. If you don't speak English you can't participate in the larger American society. You are trapped in a subset. English is the ticket to full membership in the culture. Populations which are divided by language are at perpetual conflict with themselves.
|8.31.07 @ 3:05PM|#
I'm marvelously competent in speaking one language - English.
Try as I have, my brain (I have a masters degree from an Ivy League
university.)cannot get its neurons around any other language but
the one I learned first. My sin, I suppose. But when I travel
overseas, I do so with a pocket guide to other countries' languages
so that I at least make an attempt. It would seem to me that were I
to move to any other place where English is not Numero Uno, I'd
eventually get the gist of their language, and use it, no matter
how poorly.
It's not the facility that matters, it's the intention to "blend"
into the culture, and the best way to do that is to communicate in
the native tongue. Those who entered this country in massive waves
of immigration up until the 1960s knew that if they were to survive
and thrive, they needed to have a working command of English to do
so.
So what's changed? Bravo John Rocker.
TLB|8.31.07 @ 3:08PM|#
[Grown-ups only]
Isn't it true that the MexicanGovernment as well as far-left
non-profits ResistAssimilation? And, isn't it true that the
crypto-corporatists at Reason would gladly give them even more
power, making their opposition even easier?
[/Grown-ups only]
|8.31.07 @ 3:08PM|#
Taktix®
I've never been there, but I'm pretty sure that's just a bikini
satellite. My understanding, is that the center of the bikini
Universe is in Rio.
Marcvs|8.31.07 @ 3:09PM|#
I completely disagree with John Rocker, but for some reason I strongly support the movement for "PEAK NGLISH".
|8.31.07 @ 3:10PM|#
Isn't it true that the MexicanGovernment as well as far-left
non-profits ResistAssimilation? And, isn't it true that the
crypto-corporatists at Reason would gladly give them even more
power, making their opposition even easier?
TLB-
If they don't speak English, their children will.
Take it from me, La Raza is no match for the assimilating power of
Nickelodeon.
|8.31.07 @ 3:11PM|#
Dan T,
I believe the bikini universe is the parallel universe where the
movie "The Last Action Hero" was set.
Incidentally, Aresen, don't listen to Dan, everybody knows that ERA
stands for Electronic Realty
Associates.
|8.31.07 @ 3:11PM|#
I've never been there, but I'm pretty sure that's just a
bikini satellite. My understanding, is that the center of the
bikini Universe is in Rio.
I must admit I was wrong. South Beach can't be the Bikini Universe
because they don't wear any on some parts of the beach.
Kinda throws the average off a little, but I don't mind.
|8.31.07 @ 3:13PM|#
The problem with all this is that there are probably very few
Latino immigrants who wouldn't like to be able to speak English.
Learning a new language as an adult is very difficult, and it's
probably even more difficult after working a 14-hour day.
John Rocker's xenophobia is annoying, but his attempts to
rationalize his xenophobia with claims that he's really trying to
help Spanish-speakers by intimidating them into learning English is
a load of total BS.
KRK|8.31.07 @ 3:14PM|#
Pedants are a pain, but since the entry is subtitled "Learn
English!" it seems fair to urge the author to himself learn the
proper use of then/than.
"And what better way to combat anti-American stereotypes
than printing t-shirts...
It's really not that hard.
|8.31.07 @ 3:16PM|#
Some people are racist and they don even know it
I am sure she is at least 85% black since everyone in America is
mixed with something. I know African-American women that look like
her whose parents are both dark in complexion. I have
blond-brownish hair but both parents are dark skin with none of my
follicle features. SO DON'T ASSUME SHE'S HALF BECAUSE YOU THINK
SHE'S HOT. YOU THINK SHE'S HOT DISPITE HER BEING BLACK.
|8.31.07 @ 3:18PM|#
**Episiarch | August 31, 2007, 2:47pm | #
Is he's proving he's not racist by posing with the hot half
black/half white (I guess?) chick? The sacrifices he must
make.**
Episiarch, Some people are racist and they don even know it
I am sure she is at least 85% black since everyone in America is
mixed with something. I know African-American women that look like
her whose parents are both dark in complexion. I have
blond-brownish hair but both parents are dark skin with none of my
follicle features. SO DON'T ASSUME SHE'S HALF BECAUSE YOU THINK
SHE'S HOT. YOU THINK SHE'S HOT DISPITE HER BEING BLACK.
|8.31.07 @ 3:19PM|#
Based on the disparity between lighthearted Friday comments and
pissed off, offended comments, I'd say some of you are being told
that you have to work tomorrow.
Cheer up, dammit.
|8.31.07 @ 3:28PM|#
Warren,
I agree that linguistic divisions, and the inability to be
mutually-intelligible, can cause problems. But this of all issues
is where your libertarian instincts should kick in. The private
market - and in particular, the mass media, the labor market, and
the national chains that are such a huge part of our economy - are
incredibly effective at getting people to speak English.
Larry Bormel,
So what's changed? Nothing has changed, except that
immigrants today are actually more likely to learn English than
immigrants who came here before World War 2. Those immigrants had
the choice - often, not even a choice - of living, working,
shopping, and socializing entirely within non-English-speaking
enclaves. Now, those people are mostly living, working, and/or
shopping with English-speaking Americans, or at an absolute
minimum, watching TV and buying CDs.
And in doing so, they piss off John Rocker, even though they're
doing exactly what he should be hoping they do.
Episiarch|8.31.07 @ 3:32PM|#
Truth, seeing as I put "(I guess?)" after the half thing, your
statement is as stupid as your clumsy phrasing.
Unless you are trolling, in which case well done.
By the way, I am pure Atlantean and yet an American. I am not mixed
with anything, so your statement is demonstrably false.
|8.31.07 @ 3:33PM|#
If only Rocker learned to pitch as well as he's learned to
bitch.
"""SO DON'T ASSUME SHE'S HALF BECAUSE YOU THINK SHE'S HOT. YOU
THINK SHE'S HOT DISPITE HER BEING BLACK.""""
She looks mixed to me. She's hot regardless.
Abdul|8.31.07 @ 3:35PM|#
If Rocker visits Bikini Universe, what language does he speak/barely get along in?
Episiarch|8.31.07 @ 3:38PM|#
If Rocker visits Bikini Universe, what language does he
speak/barely get along in?
Esperanto?
ed|8.31.07 @ 3:43PM|#
"It's the most hectic, nerve-racking city. Imagine having to
take the 7 Train to the ballpark, looking like you're riding
through Beirut next to some kid with purple hair, next to some
queer with AIDS, right next to some dude who just got out of jail
for the fourth time, right next to some 20-year-old mom with four
kids. It's depressing."
That's an indelicate way of putting it, but I don't doubt its
accuracy. Rocker was a not-very-bright athlete who got railroaded
for being politically incorrect. I remember a day when libertarians
derided political correctness. These days they're on the same page
as the Easily Offended.
What happened?
|8.31.07 @ 3:46PM|#
Truth,
How about this? She's either only partially black or she's had her
hair straightened. Either way, "hot hot hot and hot". You could
shave her head and paint her green, "hot hot hot and hot".
I took the "half-black" assertion to be more a modifier of Rocker's
tolerance than a modifier of her hotness. As in, he could show off
his brownish-skinned booty buddy, but he couldn't quite get himself
to model his t-shirt with a beauty who was on the darker side of
the "paper bag test".
|8.31.07 @ 3:46PM|#
My phasing is correct and I didn't mention anything about your ethnicity. So I don't know what you're rambling about.
|8.31.07 @ 3:50PM|#
My ultimate point is, why does her race even matter. Why can't
she just be hot. I think Liz Hurley is just hot. Not hot because
she's an Aussie, but just HOT!
Like the delicious booty b/c she's HOT!
|8.31.07 @ 3:50PM|#
While I try to understand why you folks are debating a 13-month-old article, what do you suppose that Italian guy said to Zidane that set him off like that?
Nash|8.31.07 @ 3:51PM|#
John Rocker is not racist. I'm sorry but I don't care what his
sound-bytes claim. The guy played ball and traveled with latino
teammates for 10 years. He's lived in south and central american
countries when he was playing winter ball. He's been exposed first
hand to more cultural diversity than likely anyone on this forum.
You don't get very far in professional baseball refusing to be
cooperative and friendly with people of different races and
cultures.
Yeah his message is abrasive and the delivery is hardly PC. I don't
even really care so much about illegal immigration in a vacuum (I
do care about entitlement exploitation) But I toss that out and
look at how the guy lives and has lived his life and he might have
a big mouth and a bad attitude, but racist he isn't.
|8.31.07 @ 3:53PM|#
Nash,
You are so right. Rocker just speaks the Truth. He speaks about
specify types of people that are destroying America.
|8.31.07 @ 4:02PM|#
"""That's an indelicate way of putting it, but I don't doubt its
accuracy."""
Minus the Beruit part, it's pretty accurate. But all the lines are
carry a very diverse group, which brings me to Nash's
comment.
"""He's been exposed first hand to more cultural diversity than
likely anyone on this forum."""
Then why was he bitching about the diversity of the 7 train?
Highway|8.31.07 @ 4:04PM|#
You could shave her head and paint her green, "hot hot hot and hot".
Well, if you're Captain Kirk...
Episiarch|8.31.07 @ 4:04PM|#
I think Liz Hurley is just hot. Not hot because she's an
Aussie, but just HOT!
Liz Hurley is a limey, d00d.
My phasing is correct and I didn't mention anything about your
ethnicity.
Your "phasing" is clearly terrible, but you seem to have totally
missed the whole "Atlantean" thing, so I'm guessing you are
humor-impaired too.
|8.31.07 @ 4:08PM|#
The guy played ball and traveled with latino teammates for
10 years.
Yes, he used to jokingly call refer to one of his black teammates
as a monkey. All in good clean fun, of course.
Except the guy obviously hated it, and John Rocker was the only one
in the clubhouse who didn't realize that.
|8.31.07 @ 4:15PM|#
"If only Rocker learned to pitch as well as he's learned to
bitch."
I thought he was a half decent closer when at Atlanta, but too
prone to wild pitches.
|8.31.07 @ 4:20PM|#
Truth | August 31, 2007, 3:53pm | #
Nash,
You are so right. Rocker just speaks the Truth. He speaks about
specify types of people that are destroying America.
If I may put on my "neighbor" hat here, the America that I have
come to love and respect; to view as a good friend; and which has
espoused the highest of ideals, has (thankfully) turn its back on
creeps like you.
Rhywun|8.31.07 @ 4:23PM|#
So what's changed? Bravo John Rocker.
Uh... what do you think has changed? I live in the city that Rocker
so despises, surrounded by immigrants, and not one single time have
I ever had a problem communicating with someone in English that I
needed to communicate with. This idea that immigrants "aren't
learning English" anymore is pure myth. The fact that we're seeing
other languages more frequently is a product of the explosion of
media outlets combined with government pandering--it's not a
reflection of some imagined trend that immigrants are not learning
English.
That's an indelicate way of putting it, but I don't doubt its
accuracy.
There's a difference between being politically incorrect and being
a misanthropic prick.
He speaks about specify types of people that are destroying
America.
Ha ha ha... well, there you go. Great minds think alike. (Apologies
if you're being sarcastic, but it's sort of hard to tell.)
|8.31.07 @ 4:24PM|#
"So what's changed? Nothing has changed, except that immigrants
today are actually more likely to learn English than immigrants who
came here before World War 2. Those immigrants had the choice -
often, not even a choice - of living, working, shopping, and
socializing entirely within non-English-speaking enclaves. Now,
those people are mostly living, working, and/or shopping with
English-speaking Americans, or at an absolute minimum, watching TV
and buying CDs."
My wife, who's Iranian, learned English watching "Three's Company"
reruns. Spanish television, radios, and CD's can hurt Spanish
speaking people and keep them from learning English, but I assume
most of them are making an effort to learn English. Those who don't
are only hurting themselves.
|8.31.07 @ 4:30PM|#
Let me ask you a question. Is generational welfare good or bad?
Is a dirty smelly NYC, Boston Chinatown good or bad? I think Rocker
is like Garry Sheffield. He means well, but is dumb as a rock and
therefore cannot make his points intelligently.
Rocker is a moron yes, but people that wish to make American their
home must at least be willing to assimilate.
BTW, I am an immigrant from Haiti. If my family had not pulled me
out of Haiti when I was 9, I would be saying and doing the same
things to help protect their sovereignty. I am now an American
therefore I will not be shy in pointing out things that are not
good for America.
|8.31.07 @ 4:40PM|#
I've lived in the Lower East Side of Manhattan for 15 years. When I first moved in it was almost all hispanic. Jake is correct, at least in my experience. I have had problems with spanish only people a few times, but it was always the older generation.
|8.31.07 @ 4:40PM|#
Rocker was a not-very-bright athlete who got railroaded for being politically incorrect. I remember a day when libertarians derided political correctness. These days they're on the same page as the Easily Offended.
What happened?
I don't support governmental sanctions on speech, but reserve my
own right to call an asshole an asshole. Does that clear things
up?
Marcvs|8.31.07 @ 4:42PM|#
Is a dirty smelly NYC, Boston Chinatown good or bad?
Wait, what?! Boy, you are an asshole. While you
are pointing out things that aren't good for America, take a look
in the mirror.
Douchebag.
|8.31.07 @ 4:44PM|#
Marcvs,
Stop trolling! I think Haiti is smelly and dirty as well. Don't Get
it twisted, OK. I am an equal oppotunity basher.
|8.31.07 @ 4:46PM|#
Well at least the major cities in Haiti are dirty. The countryside is quite beautiful. Especially, the beaches in the North and North west and some South eastern beaches.
|8.31.07 @ 4:53PM|#
Populations which are divided by language are at perpetual conflict with themselves.
Like the Swiss?
English may be the most commnly spoken language in the United
States, and it certainly makes sense to learn it well from an
economic perspective. But the United States was a multilingual
country from its inception, and in many areas other languages
continue to have deep(er) roots. Spanish is certainly a legitimate
American language, having been spoken in many parts of the country
for much longer than English... not to mention the many Native
American languages. We've always been a polyglot country, and it
hasn't wrecked us yet.
QSL|8.31.07 @ 4:55PM|#
Taking the "In my own experiences..." quote all by itself,
without knowing who said it or that person's history, it's
certainly a reasonable quote. Anyone, whether it's an American
living abroad or vice-versa, would seem better equipped in making
their everyday lives - as well as the lives of people around them -
easier by learning a basic grasp of the local language.
The loud, obnoxious shirt kills this lucid notion, however.
|8.31.07 @ 5:00PM|#
The problem here for guys like Rocker is not that immigrants
aren't learning to speak English. It's that they have the gall to
speak other languages around him, and he just doesn't like
it that he can't always understand them. They could be plotting
something, for Christ's sake.
Actually, I'm not sure if that is Rocker's motivation, so I'm not
being entirely fair. But it certainly is the motivation for a lot
of the people who complain about this. Foreign jibber-jabber that
they can't understand intimidates and scares them. Throw in the
(baseless) fear the they, as natives, might be forced into
having to learn a new language to get by in their own home country,
and you have a winning combination to stir up the nativists.
|8.31.07 @ 5:02PM|#
I HOPE you don't think Hurley's hot because she's Australian;
she's a Brit (and she's just hot, but the accent doesn't
hurt).
As for Zidane: his sister got called a whore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane#Confrontation_with_Marco_Materazzi
Rhywun|8.31.07 @ 5:05PM|#
I am now an American therefore I will not be shy in pointing
out things that are not good for America.
Like queers, purple hair, and young mothers. Got it.
|8.31.07 @ 5:07PM|#
I liked Rocker. It was a shame he was never really the same after his injury. He brought excitement to an otherwise drearily boring sport. Watching him charge out to the mound under a hail of boos at Yankee stadium is the sort of thing sports is all about.
|8.31.07 @ 5:17PM|#
**Rhywun | August 31, 2007, 5:05pm | #
I am now an American therefore I will not be shy in pointing out
things that are not good for America.
Like queers, purple hair, and young mothers. Got it.**
See, you must be one of those people that try to take things out of
context so you can justify you point. If you understand the context
of what I was saying then you would be able to agree with me that
generational welfare is bad for America. I know people that have
been on welfare and their children are also on welfare.
unfortunately, there grandchildren will also be on welfare. The
queer portion about of Rocker's statement I don't agree with.
CONTEXT is the word of the day kids!
Have a good labor day.
|8.31.07 @ 5:18PM|#
Ten percent of the concern these people attempt to express is genuine and based on real issues. The rest of it is just unadulterated, pure bigotry. Next thing you know he'll be pushing for a wall on the border, beefing up the INS, and demanding reductions in "legal" immigration. At that rate he can move to Texas, run for Congress and tell everyone he's a libertarian! Maybe not. After all, who'd believe it?
QSL|8.31.07 @ 5:19PM|#
Like queers, purple hair, and young mothers. Got
it.
I would contend that basically every person has a "look" in their
mind whereas if they see it in public, it immediately conjures up
an internalized disparaging or negative reaction. It could be a
yuppie in an expensive suit, or a skater kid, or a tattoo ("tramp
stamp"), a smoker, a woman wearing a What Would Jesus Do? shirt, or
whatever.
Some people act out on this and mistreat the person accordingly,
while others brush it off and treat the person as the individual
they are. But that initial reaction is there, be it positive or
negative.
I'm not saying this is right. Nor am I defending Rocker in the
least. But I think we should be careful in claiming that we (the
collective 'we') would never, never, ever, ever reflexively judge
someone's lifestyle based on their outward appearance. Yes, even
liberals and libertarians.
|8.31.07 @ 5:19PM|#
joe,
The private market - and in particular, the mass media, the
labor market, and the national chains that are such a huge part of
our economy - are incredibly effective at getting people to speak
English.
I agree. The market does a fine job of assimilating. I'm a great
believer in the melting pot. No doubt English will pick up more
Spanish in the coming decades. We don't need to force people to
learn English, but neither should we remove any incentives.
Bazil|8.31.07 @ 5:31PM|#
I think he means "Speak American"
I was educated in England and found that a large portion of
Americans think they know English but they really do not. (case and
point, our glorious furer er president)
|8.31.07 @ 5:35PM|#
Populations which are divided by language are at perpetual conflict with themselves.
Like the Swiss?
Don't forget Belgium.
That place is such a hellhole that it's needed a NATO presence
since 1949.
Daniel|8.31.07 @ 5:35PM|#
People complain about immigrants who don't speak English in situations like when they try to order food, or pay for stuff at the grocery, or talk to someone on the street.
You know, when the immigrants ARE trying to speak English.
It took me no more than a week to learn how to learn the difference
between hamburger and cheeseburger in Spanish, and to learn that
"no tomates" really does in fact mean "no tomatoes" and "lechuga
única" means "only lettuce." And my language skills are fairly
inadequate, so I hold people who actually, y'know, need to use the
language to this standard (learning 15 words in a week). BUT THEY
KEEP MESSING UP MY MEAL EVERY TIME >=(
We can all agree that John Rocker is a hypocrite though. Third year
Spanish student (just started reading my first Spanish book, a
translated Neil Gaiman book, lol); learning Japanese on my own time
for about 5 months (I finally got the hang of katakana!). The only
place that natively speaks those languages that I'd go to is
Cancun.
|8.31.07 @ 5:56PM|#
Warren,
Printing ballots in other languages when doing so will increase
voting rates is an assimilationist policy.
It takes people who, by definition, live within an insular
subculture, and engages them in the broady polity. Maybe they start
watching the City Council meetings to see the guy they voted for.
Maybe they start talking politics - American politics - with their
neighbors. Maybe they see themselves a little differently in
relation to the rest of their city.
|8.31.07 @ 5:58PM|#
Odd Trivia Department: Rocker got 1,270 on his SATs. George
W. Bush got 1,206.
And they're both fucking morons...
|8.31.07 @ 6:20PM|#
I think he means "Speak American"
I think you mean "Speek "Merican."
Another T-shirt idea!
|8.31.07 @ 6:27PM|#
OOPS
I should have said:
"Dick, how could you say that about Laura?"
Apologies, Akira.
Rhywun|8.31.07 @ 7:02PM|#
I know people that have been on welfare and their children
are also on welfare. unfortunately, there grandchildren will also
be on welfare.
Oh yeah? My mom was on welfare for awhile after divorcing her
abusive husband and raising four small children. Bad for America!!
Oh wait... she eventually got off welfare and got a good job when
we got a little older. And I am not welfare. So your cynical
generalizations don't work on me.
|8.31.07 @ 8:11PM|#
[Grown-ups only]
Isn't it true that the MexicanGovernment as well as far-left non-profits ResistAssimilation? And, isn't it true that the crypto-corporatists at Reason would gladly give them even more power, making their opposition even easier?
[/Grown-ups only]
|8.31.07 @ 8:13PM|#
[Grown-ups only]
Isn't it true that the MexicanGovernment as well as far-left non-profits ResistAssimilation? And, isn't it true that the crypto-corporatists at Reason would gladly give them even more power, making their opposition even easier?
[/Grown-ups only]
You know, for someone who stumps for the "English as the official
language of the US" crowd, lone wacko's grasp of the language is
quite abysmal.
|8.31.07 @ 9:04PM|#
Odd Trivia Department: Rocker got 1,270 on his SATs. George
W. Bush got 1,206.
Which I think pretty much proves that the SATs are worthless as
assessors of human intelligence.
Also, Rocker is a douche bag.
That is all.
Aakash|8.31.07 @ 9:15PM|#
Wow... This is interesting news.
But I think the most surprising part of this story (actually, of
what I looked up on Google, after seeing this blog entry), is
this
encyclopedia article stating that Rocker is now married to
fitness model Alicia Marie. Is this true?
Maybe he
isn't a racist after all.
PeeDub|8.31.07 @ 10:32PM|#
Classic!
Colin Quinn: "I don't like the guy, but he's clearly been on the 7
train."
|8.31.07 @ 11:28PM|#
I completely disagree with John Rocker, but for some reason
I strongly support the movement for "PEAK NGLISH".
Oh my, lonewacko's right! We've reached Peak English! We need a
Kyoto conference for the 'Merican language!
S.A. Miller|8.31.07 @ 11:34PM|#
His statement on his website is dated September 25, 2006.
This post is dated August 31, 2007.
Why exactly is this news?
The Wine Commonsewer|9.1.07 @ 12:02AM|#
Weel, let's try that again.
Most PR's consider themselves abroad so I dunno.
Liberace|9.1.07 @ 12:03AM|#
I have to agree with the racist bastard on this one. I'm of Puerto Rican descent, but English is my only language. I've worked with Mexicans in a restaurant kitchen, and they are happy to be here and learn our language. However, I have actually heard Dominicans say that we should learn Spanish because Dominicans are coming to the US. Yes, reread that last sentence. That is ridiculous, speak English.
|9.1.07 @ 12:35AM|#
I am now an American therefore I will not be shy in pointing
out things that are not good for America.
Like queers, purple hair, and young mothers. Got it.
And don't even get him started on queer purple-haired young mothers
...
(Who, incidentally, can be mighty hot.)
|9.1.07 @ 12:43AM|#
But I think the most surprising part of this story
(actually, of what I looked up on Google, after seeing this blog
entry), is this encyclopedia article stating that Rocker is now
married to fitness model Alicia Marie. Is this true?
Maybe he isn't a racist after all.
Or maybe really hot booty trumped the racism ...
|9.1.07 @ 12:46AM|#
However, I have actually heard Dominicans say that we should
learn Spanish because Dominicans are coming to the US. Yes, reread
that last sentence. That is ridiculous, speak English.
Well, why not learn Spanish? As long as we can communicate, what
the fuck does it matter? In Canada, I take it, the majority tries
to learn some French so as to connect with the minority. Is there
something wrong with that? Is it a perversion of God's will?
Imagine a USA where huge portions of the country primarily speak
Latin American Spanish, and lots of non-Hispanic English-speaking
Americans also know conversational Spanish, and Spanish becomes a
de facto second language of the USA. Do you see this as
some sort of dystopian nightmare? Because it sounds pretty cool to
me.
dhex|9.1.07 @ 12:47AM|#
i always liked that original quote: "OH THE TRAIN IS FILLED WITH PEOPLE OF VARIED BACKGROUNDS!"
|9.1.07 @ 3:08AM|#
KRK,
The reason pedants are a pain is they often assume their target is
ignorant when most likely their target knew the rule but was just
careless and/or tired when he wrote.
|9.1.07 @ 8:19AM|#
Well, why not learn Spanish?
Because if Americans become multilingual, then the terrorists will
have won!
|9.1.07 @ 11:15AM|#
Wow. This thread brings to mind a herd of self-righteous,
gossipy, old biddies cackling over a younger woman's attire.
Ron Paul sez:
"The protesters' cause of open borders is not well served when they
drape themselves in Mexican flags and chant slogans in Spanish. If
anything, their protests underscore the Balkanization of America
caused by widespread illegal immigration. How much longer can we
maintain huge unassimilated subgroups within America, filled with
millions of people who don't speak English or participate fully in
American life?"
|9.1.07 @ 11:23AM|#
Yup, all the tut-tutting from busybodies obsessed with how other
people speak is quite a bit like old ladies cackling about how
other people dress.
That Paul quote is a pretty good example of such, Flemur. My
goodness, they speak a different language, and have you seen what
they do to their cars' suspensions?
|9.1.07 @ 11:45AM|#
So far on my problems with Ron Paul list.
Wants to restrict a woman's control of her own body.
Wants to restrict people's choice of language.
(and voted for the fence on the southern border)
Wants to restrict openly gay soldiers from serving in the
military.
Wants to keep gays from adopting children.
Wants to get prayer back in schools.
|9.1.07 @ 11:50AM|#
I forgot this doozie,
NAFTA's superhighway is just one part of a plan to erase the
borders between the U.S. and Mexico, called the North American
Union. This spawn of powerful special interests, would create a
single nation out of Canada, the U.S. and Mexico, with a new
unelected bureaucracy and money system. Forget about controlling
immigration under this scheme.
That goes under "seems to be a paranoid xenophobe"
|9.1.07 @ 1:21PM|#
You don't get very far in professional baseball refusing to
be cooperative and friendly with people of different races and
cultures.
I dunno, to me baseball is the major pro team sport where your
interactions and trust between teammates is needed the least. In
hoops, hockey, soccer and football, team harmony can significantly
enhance the flow and quality of play (there's a reason running
backs get gifts for their OLs). Why does a closer that's a power
pitcher need his teammates to like him? It's not like his teammates
like or dislike mattered, just the fact that he could throw in the
mid-90s.
I can understand having multi-lingual ballots. There are a lot of
Americans that can speak conversational English and get along fine,
but when forced read technical, official English they would
struggle (and you don't learn those words on Three's Company
either). For example, I could get through most of the Middle East
and speak Arabic, but I would be hard pressed to fill out a
government form, like a visa application.
|9.1.07 @ 1:28PM|#
"Well, why not learn Spanish? As long as we can communicate,
what the fuck does it matter?"
Replace Spanish with English.
Why should the onus be on those already here.
I don't know why calling for immigrants to learn English is so
controversial. While I don't think it should be a requirement it
certainly would help those immigrating in their quest to better
themselves.
Of course I may think this way because brown people and eastern
Europeans scare me.
|9.1.07 @ 2:32PM|#
Why on earth would Canada or Mexico want to be in a Union that
would be dominated by a superpower with a population more than two
times larger than both combined?
It would just be a projection of American power, like Prussia in
imperial Germany, Russia in the USSR, etc. Thats one big reason not
to believe the North American Union crap.
|9.1.07 @ 2:34PM|#
Should read "A projection of power by a larger neighbor over much smaller neighbors, like Prussia did in Germany and Russia did in the USSR."
|9.1.07 @ 4:27PM|#
Talk about a slow news day. John Rocker? Paris or Nicole didn't get shit faced today?
|9.1.07 @ 5:18PM|#
Why should the onus be on those already here.
You've got it all wrong. I don't put the onus on English-speaking
Americans. I reject the whole idea of an onus.
You've got different groups of people with different languages.
It'd be nice if they could communicate with each other. There's
lots of different ways that could be achieved. And it really
doesn't matter how it happens. Which one's the majority and which
one's the minority doesn't matter. There's no especially privileged
or uniquely correct way to do this.
Now, my personal preferences are for a place with lots of different
languages. But that's probably because I grew up in a place where
you never heard anything other than English (the only Spanish I
ever heard was from the Bumblebee Guy on the Simpsons). I envy
people who grew up around lots of different languages (in big
cities or in multilingual countries or with immigrant parents). I
think it would be awesome if America had English and Spanish and
Polish and Mandarin all over the place. But those are just my
personal preferences.
|9.1.07 @ 5:28PM|#
LeMur-
Do you oppose southerners flying the Confederate flag?
I really don't, because I understand they aren't agitating for
secession, they are just expressing something in their heritage.
Thats how it is with Mexican flags, 9/10 times.
Bopo|9.1.07 @ 5:30PM|#
Yeah, it would be a shame to insist people learn English. After
all, is lack of English fluency a problem at all for people in the
US? As a matter of fact, I think we should encourage more people to
learn other languages. Because as we all know, countries where more
than one language is spoken widely, like Canada and Belgium, have
never had serious problems related to language.
Objections to the encouragement of learning English is reason
#53702018839465 libertarians will never be taken seriously in this
country.
|9.1.07 @ 5:33PM|#
Objections to the encouragement of learning English is
reason #53702018839465 libertarians will never be taken seriously
in this country.
Nobody objects to immigrants learning English. I just don't think
its as big a problem as people make it out to be.
People seem to have this huge issue with Spanish TV. Guess what,
there are about two Spanish-language channels on my cable. Compare
that to over 300 English-speaking ones. I fail to see what the
problem is.
|9.1.07 @ 6:19PM|#
"Why on earth would Canada or Mexico want to be in a Union that
would be dominated by a superpower with a population more than two
times larger than both combined?"
No, I agree with you Cesar, I don't see any big conspiracy to
combine us into one government. But I do think that business
interests in all three nations want certain goodies they can get
from more interaction with each other (Mexico would like some
capital, US some cheap labor, etc), and they will push for greater
integration in order to get it. Some of this will be governmental.
I'm not commenting on whether this will be bad or not btw, but it
will mean a lot more integration of our governments, economies and
societies.
"Yup, all the tut-tutting from busybodies obsessed with how other
people speak is quite a bit like old ladies cackling about how
other people dress."
Joe, I see your point. In the sense of Mills harm principle (often
a motivating factor on the left) people speaking like the tower of
babel does no one direct harm. But you know, I know a lot of decent
though very traditional and somewhat "provincal" folks who are just
made very uncomfortable by being surrounded by people speaking
another language. Humans are not very rational people (my field is
sociology, which overdoes how irrational folks are, but there is
still a lot if irrationality). Things make them uncomfortable that
maybe should not. What good does it do for us "more rational" folks
to make fun of them and liken them to silly old ladies? Their
preferences matter to, don't they? I mean, I follow your posts
here, and it seems that the gut feeling of obligation that most
folks have for one another that undergirds support for welfare and
various transfer programs is not always seen as "rational" (look
how the hard core libs here treat it), but we don't dismiss those
folks who hold that view as silly irrational goofs, do we?
|9.1.07 @ 6:24PM|#
No, I agree with you Cesar, I don't see any big conspiracy
to combine us into one government. But I do think that business
interests in all three nations want certain goodies they can get
from more interaction with each other (Mexico would like some
capital, US some cheap labor, etc), and they will push for greater
integration in order to get it. Some of this will be governmental.
I'm not commenting on whether this will be bad or not btw, but it
will mean a lot more integration of our governments, economies and
societies.
There will be economic intergration, which as a free trader I
believe is a good thing. But there will never, ever be very much
political integration.
The European Union can work because there is not one large state
that dominates it as there would be in a "North American" Union.
Canadians, and especially especially Mexicans would revolt
if such a thing were to occur. They'll enter into a political Union
with the gringos when hell freezes over.
TLB|9.1.07 @ 7:09PM|#
I urge everyone to remain calm and DO NOT BELIEVE THE
NORTHAMERICANUNION CRAP!
despite all the evidence that very powerful people want it
IGNORE IT!! THEY AREN'T TRYING TO PUSH IT!!
at least under that name
IGNORE THE FOLLOWING, CITIZEN!
house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst082806.htm
eagleforum.org/topics/NAU
worldnetdaily.com/news/archives.asp?AUTHOR_ID=223
lonewacko.com/blog/archives/nau-digest.html
thenation.com/bletters/20070827/hayes
|9.1.07 @ 7:44PM|#
Hey TLB, why would the Mexicans want a North American Union? Answer my question about how the USA would dominate the Union, with a population two and half times the size of the other two states combined.
|9.1.07 @ 9:20PM|#
Shirt on right say "peak nglish."
What language that?
Hooterese?
Hooterese universal language? Not Esperanto?
|9.1.07 @ 9:38PM|#
TLB,
It's too late, the North American Union is already starting to
replace the USA...
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15233
brought to you by...
Mr. Corsi is the author of several books, including "Unfit for
Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry" (along
with John O'Neill)...
|9.1.07 @ 9:40PM|#
A statement regarding the SPP (aka, the North American
Union).
http://www.spp.gov/pdf/leaders_statement_2007_english.pdf
|9.1.07 @ 9:40PM|#
This thread brings to mind a herd of self-righteous,
gossipy, old biddies cackling over a younger woman's
attire.
Ummm, this thread seems to be more about horny, not-laid-in-a-while
guys drooling over the picture of the young woman's scanty
attire.
Oh, wait, weren't some people yammering about immigration too? Some
people just can't stay focused, yeah? ;)
TEY STOLE ARH JARBS!
|9.1.07 @ 9:44PM|#
So far on my problems with Ron Paul list.
Wants to restrict a woman's control of her own body.
Wants to restrict people's choice of language.
(and voted for the fence on the southern border)
Wants to restrict openly gay soldiers from serving in the
military.
Wants to keep gays from adopting children.
Wants to get prayer back in schools.
Neu Mejican: So far on my problems with Ron Paul
everyone else running list:
Everything else.
Bonus points for brevity?
|9.1.07 @ 9:45PM|#
More...
"Urban legend of "North American Union" feeds on fears
By Philip Dine, St. Louis Post-Dispatch"
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003713518_rumor19.html
|9.1.07 @ 9:47PM|#
prolefeed,
I'll give you the extra point for brevity, but you end up with a D-
due to lack of content.
=/;)
|9.1.07 @ 9:47PM|#
Why should the onus be on those already here.
It was that onus stuff that got Craig in trouble. ;)
|9.1.07 @ 9:52PM|#
Neu Mejican:
Socialized medicine. Higher taxes. Higher spending. No troop
withdrawal. Authoritarianism run amok. Monarchical succession.
Funny underwear. Hardly any experience. A little too much
experience at scewing us over ...
Getting carpal tunnel syndrome. You got something to praise about
those buggers? Seriously? ;)
|9.1.07 @ 9:56PM|#
More on what R. Paul is afraid of (the NAU),
http://www.alternet.org/audits/54184/
|9.1.07 @ 10:10PM|#
You mean this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OxYbOYPjQg
Gotta give chops to a Republican courting anarcho-leftists during
the primary (or ever).
Got your "Who is John Galt Ron Paul?" bumper sticker
yet?
|9.1.07 @ 10:12PM|#
Neu Mejican -- depends on who you define as "the clowns". I define that as "anyone but Bill Richardson". You?
|9.2.07 @ 1:01AM|#
Rocker's 2000 comments were widely condemned, but all he said
was that the things he described are depressing, not that they
should be illegal. I for one think homosexuality, repeat offenders,
and unwed motherhood are depressing things. Since when do
libertarians think people should keep their opinions about society
to themselves? I don't think the government should punish any of
those things (except to the extent that a released prisoner has
already been punished), but Mr. Rocker is well within his rights,
and quite sensible as well, to disapprove.
As for learning English, again we have an exhortation rather than a
demand for legal intervention. You might not think immigrants
should have to learn English, but don't you think it would be a
good idea? And there is a big difference between living somewhere
for less than a year and moving to another country permanently.
John Rocker|9.2.07 @ 1:24AM|#
Bazil | August 31, 2007, 5:31pm | #
I think he means "Speak American"
I was educated in England and found that a large portion of Americans think they know English [,] but they really do not. (cCaseandin point, our gloriousfurerFuehrer [,]er[,]pPresident[.])
John Rocker\'s <s>English</s> |9.2.07 @ 1:27AM|#
Bazil | August 31, 2007, 5:31pm | #
I think he means "Speak American"[.]
|9.2.07 @ 11:30AM|#
Nathan: But he also offended the purple hair crowd. And I, for one, welcome out purple-haired overlords.
|9.2.07 @ 12:12PM|#
John Rocker's English American teacher | September 2, 2007,
1:27am | #
Bazil | August 31, 2007, 5:31pm | #
I think he means "Speak American"[.]
That "." should go inside the quotation marks to conform with
American practices. Outside it is British.
"Speak American."
Someone shoot JR|9.2.07 @ 12:16PM|#
American technical writing, which that was, follows the older convention.
|9.2.07 @ 1:51PM|#
American Technical writing conventions explained...
http://stipo.larc.nasa.gov/sp7084/sp7084ch3.html#3.11.3
Place periods before closing quotation marks.
The operator presses the letter n to indicate "no" and the letter y
to indicate "yes."
The word pultruded is defined to mean the opposite of
"extruded."
Moribund Academy of Rocker Tut|9.2.07 @ 3:08PM|#
We stand corrected, having been working from an older
template.
And we wonder why we're not a popular movement.
(Drink!)
atrevete|9.2.07 @ 5:00PM|#
BTW, Daniel if you say "lechuga unica" a Spanish speaker might think hmmmmm, he wants a unique lettuce. I'd go with "lechuga, mas nada"
Daniel|9.2.07 @ 6:52PM|#
BTW, Daniel if you say "lechuga unica" a Spanish speaker might think hmmmmm, he wants a unique lettuce. I'd go with "lechuga, mas nada"
Thanks.
QSL|9.3.07 @ 11:23AM|#
I've always thought it made more sense to put the period - which I always interpreted as meaning you are absolutely, positively done with the sentence - after the closing quote mark.
Dr. Gulag|9.3.07 @ 1:28PM|#
Fuck all this. I can't even get my order right in a restaurant
because the Spanish speaking cooks can't properly deciper the order
ticket written by the English speaking waiterettes.
QSL said, "after the closing quote mark."
I'm with you, brother. The punctuation within the quotes is awkward
nonsense insisten upon by people who have forgotten languages
evolve. I'm amazed they don't insist we still use "thou" and
"thine".
dhex|9.3.07 @ 2:50PM|#
"I don't know," dhex said. "the punctuation within quotes just
plain looks better."
Since when do libertarians think people should keep their
opinions about society to themselves?
naw dude that's what it is. it's a back and forth. part of saying
"i don't like xyz" is someone else who does or objects to your
phrasing or whatever sez "you're wrong about xyz" and uh then
democracy happens or something.
|9.3.07 @ 6:42PM|#
I take the middle ground. If what is within quotes deserves the
punctuation, then I put the punctuation within the quotes. If not,
I put it outside.
Quoting a word or three usually does not earn the sentence ending
punctuation. Quoting a sentence -- or a phrase that could conclude
a sentence -- usually does.
|9.4.07 @ 11:50AM|#
Re: punctuation marks.
The practice evolves.
This is why there is a difference between the US and British
conventions (and a huge range of genre specific conventions).
In most forms of writing, it will not make a difference. In
published professional and technical writing, a copy-editor will
insist that the punctuation conforms to the standards they
use.
Irregardles ;) of common usage, these standards are slow to change
and sometimes solidify nonsensical practices.
Conforming to the standard sends a signal regarding in-group
status. The in-group usually being a sign of a certain level of
education (in a certain field of discourse).
|9.4.07 @ 12:00PM|#
QSL said, "I've always thought it made more sense to put the
period - which I always interpreted as meaning you are absolutely,
positively done with the sentence - after the closing quote
mark."
The period inside the quotation mark indicates the end of the
sentence. The closing quotation mark indicates the end of the
"speaker's" turn.
If the quote is more than a sentence long, you have a period or
other final mark between the sentences. Putting the closing
quotation inside the last sentence would give it strange status as
somehow different than the preceding sentences.
There is a logic to either choice.
Conventions are that way.
They are not rational or irrational.
They just are.
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