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Don't Make Friends With Fat People...They're Contagious!
A new study
in the New England Journal of Medicine reports that Americans
should be wary of yet another public health contagion—obesity:
Obesity can spread from one person to another like the flu or a fad, researchers reported today in a first-of-its-kind study that helps explain -- and could help fight -- one of the nation's biggest public health problems.
The study, involving more than 12,000 people tracked over 32 years, found that "social networks" play a surprisingly powerful role in determining an individual's chances of gaining weight, transmitting an increased risk of becoming obese from wives to husbands, from brothers to brothers and from friends to friends.
...
The risk rose even more sharply among friends -- between 57 and 171 percent, depending on whether they considered each other mutual friends. Moreover, friends affected friends' risk even when they lived far apart, and the influence cascaded through three degrees of separation before petering out, the researchers found.
...
"What spreads is an idea. As people around you gain weight, your attitudes about what constitutes an acceptable body size changes, and you might follow suit and emulate that body size," [Nicholas A. Christakis of Harvard Medical School, who led the study] said. [emphasis added]
"Why Marjorie, what lovely cankles you have! Pass the lasagna, would ya please?"
reason's smorgasbord of writings on obesity here and public health here.
|7.26.07 @ 8:31AM|#
So if you have a bunch of skinny friends and one morbidly obese one, will his fat average out amongst the group?
Fluffy|7.26.07 @ 8:35AM|#
I think that like many public health studies this is reversing
the causation.
Which is more likely:
1. Making friends with a fat person will magically make you
fat.
2. Being fat drops you a couple of status cliques down in high
school and college, and you end up sitting at the fat kids' table
at lunch, and these early friendships end up setting the course of
your future friendships.
Franklin Harris|7.26.07 @ 8:42AM|#
I have just completed a 30-year study that finds conclusively that safety Nazis will say anything, no matter how absurd, to prove that their subjective eating preferences are healthy while others' preferences are not only unhealthy, but also immoral. They also have 87 percent less shame than the average person.
|7.26.07 @ 8:45AM|#
I think becoming a friends with a real life fat person just counters the propaganda that "obesity is destroying america" and that fat people are all just useless slobs. so then being fat becomes more acceptable. The same effect can account for a lot of what gets called "peer pressure" in drug use.
|7.26.07 @ 8:53AM|#
So...it can pass like a fad, but not like the flu?
I've known people who were fat from food allergies (the body takes
the allergen, wraps it in fat, and sticks it in cells to avoid
irritating the digestive system), weird uterine problems that sound
unpleasant enough on their own, and, yes, from being lazy gluttons.
The idea that there is one cause for obesity is pernicious. In
fact, Americans are addicted to finding the "one cause" of all
kinds of stuff, eliminating that, and then wondering why things
haven't changed.
|7.26.07 @ 9:03AM|#
This study seems pointless not because it's wrong, but because it's obvious. It's not surprising in the least that people tend to conform to standards set by their social groups.
|7.26.07 @ 9:04AM|#
There are some people in this society who are just disgusting. The health facists are among the worst. Am I the only one who has noticed the increased obnoxiousness of cyclists? I constantly see cyclists on busy streets holding up traffic, running lights, nearly running over pedestrians all seem to be a lot more common. As the health nazis get more militant, the cyclist seem to think that have a moral right to run people down. I really think the two are linked. "Living healthy" is becoming a moral choice and a sign of moral superiority and if we ever have government funded healthcare will be a matter of government coercion.
|7.26.07 @ 9:10AM|#
Obesity isn't a bug, it's a feature. It means you are rich enough to sit around consuming all day.
BABH|7.26.07 @ 9:10AM|#
I've long wondered how an individual's bodyweight could be considered a matter of *public* health. This seems like a shameful attempt to pretend that the obesity "epidemic" is something more than a metaphor.
SIV|7.26.07 @ 9:10AM|#
(the body takes the allergen, wraps it in fat, and sticks it
in cells to avoid irritating the digestive system)
I've never heard of this before. A quick search lead to "clinical
ecology" so I was wondering does any legitimate medical
science support allergens as a cause of obesity?
|7.26.07 @ 9:10AM|#
OK, the study shows that fat asses don't care when other fat asses rag on them. Oh boy, where can I buy a copy of that study?
|7.26.07 @ 9:11AM|#
This study seems pointless not because it's wrong, but
because it's obvious. It's not surprising in the least that people
tend to conform to standards set by their social groups.
It doesn't seem to be obvious to all of the people who have and are
going to comment that this study is retarded and thinner, fitter
people are snobs and there's nothing unhealthy about being 300lbs
overweight
semm|7.26.07 @ 9:12AM|#
1) 'Prove' obesity is contagious
2) Nationalize health care
3) Criminalize unhealthy living
How come this doesn't seem far fetched?
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 9:27AM|#
John | July 26, 2007, 9:04am | #
There are some people in this society who are just disgusting. The
health facists are among the worst. Am I the only one who has
noticed the increased obnoxiousness of cyclists? I constantly see
cyclists on busy streets holding up traffic
Fuck you, John. We have just as much right to the fucking road. I
hope a cyclists runs into you while you're on a sidewalk and causes
the bicycle to go right up your ass.
Sincerely,
jimmydageek
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 9:28AM|#
And, as for cyclists disobeying the rules of the road, they deserve any injury that befalls them.
|7.26.07 @ 9:32AM|#
No, Reinmoose wins the thread.
This study cannot be possibly be right, or useful, or honest.
Because I don't want it to be and...uh...Nazis!!!!!!
|7.26.07 @ 9:36AM|#
So to cure all those models we just need to insert a couple of fat chicks in the dressing room then they will "catch" a couple of pounds so they can work in Spain again. Or is it Italy? Anyway, where ever they bannded the "too skinny" models.
Russ 2000|7.26.07 @ 9:41AM|#
A new study in the New England Journal of Medicine reports
that Americans should be wary of yet another public health
contagion-obesity
It's nice to see the writers who were laid off from The Weekly
World News could find jobs so quickly.
|7.26.07 @ 9:45AM|#
John and jimmydageek,
Living and working in midtown Manhattan, the cyclists, mainly the
bike messengers, are a constant source of amusement, what with
their riding the wrong way in traffic, riding on the sidewalk,
ignoring all traffic lights, yelling at motorists, yelling at
pedestrians, etc. Some of the bike messengers have their own weird
individual cries that they make to tell pedestrians to get out of
the way, like "Whoop!" or "Aiiieeee!!!" or something.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 9:52AM|#
mitch,
I won't deny that there are a bunch of rude and inconsiderate
cyclists around. However, John and his likes should know that
cycling on the road is completely legal, and if it impedes on his
commute then that's just too damn bad.
As for the cycling conditions in New York, I can tell you that
vehicle drivers use the bike lane as a passing / parking / driving
lane. Maybe if cycling lanes were clear of vehicles the cyclists
wouldn't be forced up on the sidewalks with pedestrians.
|7.26.07 @ 9:54AM|#
"Fuck you, John. We have just as much right to the fucking road.
I hope a cyclists runs into you while you're on a sidewalk and
causes the bicycle to go right up your ass."
You may have as much right but you have no more right. Having a
right to the road doesn't give you a right to put other people in
danger or needless hold up taffic. You are still subject to the
traffic laws. You have no more right to run through crosswalks or
run red lights or not get over to let faster traffic pass on a bike
than I have in my car or my motorcycle.
I used to do a lot of cycling back in college. Cyclist used to be
generally nice laid back people. In the 1990s something happened
and new bread of assholes took over the sport. Thanks for giving a
perfect example of what I am talking about.
|7.26.07 @ 9:56AM|#
"However, John and his likes should know that cycling on the
road is completely legal, and if it impedes on his commute then
that's just too damn bad."
And if I should happen to run down one of the dumb bastards because
they run a red light or cut in front of me, that is just too damn
bad to. I honestly I can't say I would feel to bad about thining
the gene pool in such a manner.
|7.26.07 @ 9:56AM|#
So, people who are close friends emulate one another in certain ways, and families tend to share body types and eating habits. Okay.
|7.26.07 @ 10:00AM|#
"Maybe if cycling lanes were clear of vehicles the cyclists
wouldn't be forced up on the sidewalks with pedestrians."
Maybe if cyclist would ride the things somewhere appropriate, they
wouldn't have the problem either. In the Hill country of Texas
cyclist are a menace. The ride these windy hilly roads right in the
middle of the lane. People come over a hill doing an otherwise safe
speed and here is some asshole in the middle of the lane chugging
along at 10. People have been killed in accidents up there trying
to avoid cyclists. But the cyclysts in Texas are totally
unrepentent and make no effort to stay out of the way or avoid
putting people and themselves in danger. You can try to defend that
all you want, but it is just inexcusable.
|7.26.07 @ 10:01AM|#
And if I should happen to run down one of the dumb bastards because they run a red light or cut in front of me, that is just too damn bad to. I honestly I can't say I would feel to bad about thining the gene pool in such a manner...But the cyclysts in Texas are totally unrepentent
|7.26.07 @ 10:02AM|#
Remember how people laughted when the smokers said they were just the first target.Studies such as these prove the validatiy of the slippery slope theory.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 10:03AM|#
And if I should happen to run down one of the dumb bastards because
they run a red light or cut in front of me, that is just too damn
bad to. I honestly I can't say I would feel to bad about thining
the gene pool in such a manner.
Good. Like I said, if they're breaking the rules of the road they
deserve whatever comes to them.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 10:05AM|#
Maybe if cyclist would ride the things somewhere
appropriate, they wouldn't have the problem either.
The road is somewhere appropriate, John. Learn to live with it. As
Dan T. would say, if you don't like it, have the laws changed.
|7.26.07 @ 10:07AM|#
Remember how people laughted when the smokers said they were
just the first target.Studies such as these prove the validatiy of
the slippery slope theory.
Um.. how? What is it particularly about this study that promotes
the slippery slope theory? It's a very complex model designed to
explain something pretty darn obvious, but that's about it. How
others may use the study has nothing to do with the intentions of
the study, the way it was conducted, or how it was reported.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 10:09AM|#
new bread of assholes took over the sport. Thanks for giving
a perfect example of what I am talking about.
New bread of assholes? Damn, I wouldn't want to
eat that crap...
As for me being an asshole, it was only in response to
your asshole comment. If I'm treated with respect
as a cyclist, I will do the same for others. If I'm riding on the
road and you come up and pass too close to me or blare your horn as
you pass by, you better hope there's no red light coming up or I
will catch up to you and have some choice words.
|7.26.07 @ 10:14AM|#
Wait a second...John rides a motorcycle yet he complains about the rudeness and unsafe habits of people who ride bikes?
|7.26.07 @ 10:21AM|#
Um.. how? What is it particularly about this study that
promotes the slippery slope theory? It's a very complex model
designed to explain something pretty darn obvious, but that's about
it. How others may use the study has nothing to do with the
intentions of the study, the way it was conducted, or how it was
reported.
I second this opinion. It's really quite a stretch to assume that
every study that deals with health issues is part of some kind of
plot to institutionalize health care.
|7.26.07 @ 10:22AM|#
(the body takes the allergen, wraps it in fat, and sticks it
in cells to avoid irritating the digestive system)
I'm with SIV (shudders) in calling BS on this one. "The body" can't
even get at the allergen until it's already in the small intestine,
so it would be too late to prevent the digestive system from
experiencing an allergic reaction.
Furthermore, how does the allergen get from the small intestine to
the fat cells, in your model? You're not seriously telling me that
the body dumps allergens into the bloodstream to get them away from
the digestive system.
Bopo|7.26.07 @ 10:27AM|#
Yet more evidence that they are going to try to make obesity into a disease rather than a conscious lifestyle choice, in much the same way people try to claim alcoholism and drug abuse are diseases.
|7.26.07 @ 10:30AM|#
Wait a second.Saying you can catch fat like a virous is not a slippery slope?Look at the junk science used for second hand smoke.
|7.26.07 @ 10:31AM|#
What spreads is an idea. As people around you gain weight,
your attitudes about what constitutes an acceptable body size
changes
What "spreads" is a style of living. An attitude about what
constitutes an acceptible body size doesn't make you fat. You can
go all day thinking, "Being fat is pretty cool," but if you are
cycling 40 miles a day and eating watercress sandwiches you ain't
gonna be fat.
The study has made a great two-pronged discovery: (1)
statistically, style of living is reflected in body shape and (2)
people make mutual social connections with those having similar
styles of living.
Seeing that this is a discovery everyone else on earth has already
made (and without the help of a financial grant), they had to dress
up the discovery in terms of a disease model.
|7.26.07 @ 10:34AM|#
"Wait a second...John rides a motorcycle yet he complains about
the rudeness and unsafe habits of people who ride bikes?"
I have never failed to flow with the traffic or obeyed the traffic
laws on a motorcycle. Yes, there are lots of jerk motorcyclists out
there, but they are really no different than jerk motorists who cut
in an out of traffic and drive too fast. The only difference is
motorcyclists who ride like that tend not to live very long.
I don't have a problem with cyclists as long as they stay to the
side out of traffic and obey the traffic laws. Time was most
cyclysts did that. Now fewer and fewer do and seem to be offended
by anyone saying anything to them about it.
VM|7.26.07 @ 10:34AM|#
Randolph Carter -
your first comment was great - conjured up the "Michangelo" Monty
Python sketch. Brilliant!
(For a Green Mountain Grizzly Adams d00d, that is)
[keed! keed!]
Rhywun|7.26.07 @ 10:35AM|#
Am I the only one who has noticed the increased
obnoxiousness of cyclists?
No. But they're only just catching up to the already-established
obnoxiousness of many drivers.
Rhywun|7.26.07 @ 10:36AM|#
I don't have a problem with cyclists as long as they stay to
the side out of traffic
Except, cyclists are perfectly entitled to be in traffic when, for
example, making a left turn.
|7.26.07 @ 10:38AM|#
Why doesn't the opposite effect take over. When I sit around with my repulsive, disgusting, anorexic, skin and bones friends do I not become like them? Why must I become repulsive, disgustingly, morbidly obese? Is wealth contagious? Oh, I forgot, I don't have any rich friends, only skinny asses and fat slobs for friends, if I have any at all.
|7.26.07 @ 10:40AM|#
The link in the article is to the full paper. It was a
longitudinal study assessing likelihood of weight gain and it
controlled for things like smoking cessation. Seems like it would
have been useful to control for being overweight at baseline but I
didn't see anything about that.
It does seem pretty obvious that social relationships would have an
influence on likelihood of weight gain -- or loss, actually.
I don't really have a problem with the study or its conclusions
about the relationship of social ties and obesity. The problem is
with the wide open conclusion that obesity should be treated as a
public health problem. So yeah, I think we can safely assume the
study will be used to prop up attempts to tax high fat foods and
ban tater tots from school cafeterias.
A more useful conclusion would have something to do with applying
their findings to weight loss and weight maintenance strategies.
Something like designing programs for groups of people who want to
lose weight that would really stress mutually supporting one
another to develop and maintain healthier eating habits. They could
develop "tool kits" (public health types love tool kits) and make
them available to community centers and community clinics. Of
course they would also want to fund pilot programs to try and get
these programs off the ground. There isn't much money from the
government right now because Bush made huge cuts to discretionary
health funding, but the foundations should be ripe for this sort of
thing.
|7.26.07 @ 10:49AM|#
I'd have to agree with John that cyclists are really pissing me off right now. The other day I almost ran over another idiot, dressed up in full Lance Armstrong gear, riding on the wrong side of the rode, into oncoming traffic. I know some riders feel safer when they can see cars coming at them, but that's awfully dangerous because drivers aren't expecting to see a "vehicle" coming at them, and it's nearly impossible for a driver making a right turn to anticipate a cyclist riding in the lane they're turning into.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 10:50AM|#
Rhywun | July 26, 2007, 10:35am | #
Am I the only one who has noticed the increased obnoxiousness of
cyclists?
No. But they're only just catching up to the
already-established obnoxiousness of many
drivers.
Nice one, Rhywun.
I think that as cycling has become more acceptable and popular with
the younger generation, the older generation, which includes people
like John, tend to get irritated by the freedoms enjoyed by
cyclists today. Not to say that some of the same freedoms weren't
enjoyed by cyclists in the past, but laws are becoming more and
more cycling friendly, and motorists tend to not like that. Also,
it's possible that cyclists in this day and age are more apt to
stand up for their rights on the road than cyclists in the
past.
Sorry, John. Your days have come and gone. Live with that
reality.
|7.26.07 @ 10:50AM|#
Wait a second.Saying you can catch fat like a virous is not
a slippery slope?Look at the junk science used for second hand
smoke.
Umm.. did you read any of the study?
"Social networks"
"Moreover, friends affected friends' risk even when they lived far
apart"
Do these statements look like they're suggesting that you can catch
fat?
Way to overreact
|7.26.07 @ 10:51AM|#
I mean "road", not "rode".
Road. That's a funny word. It's like it should be rowad. Look at
the map with all those rowads.
|7.26.07 @ 10:52AM|#
When I sit around with my repulsive, disgusting, anorexic,
skin and bones friends do I not become like them?
The study also found that being of the same sex increases the
effects of social networks. Have you been to ritzy dept. stores
like Saks and seen the hordes of cadaverous women over 50 with
their designer purses and those ugly blouses made of fabric with
like, brass instruments and strands of gold beads and stuff on
them? Those blouses are a public health problem. They are an
environmental stressor and should be eradicated.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 10:54AM|#
I'd have to agree with John jimmy that
cyclists motorists are really pissing me off right
now.
crimethink,
Whenever I see cyclists riding against traffic, I have the urge to
find the next turn lane and run over those idiots. However, that
does not make me hate all cyclists, just the ones in particular
that are doing stupid shit and giving a bad name to the rest of
us.
|7.26.07 @ 10:55AM|#
jimmydageek,
Last I knew, riding on the wrong side of the road and blowing
through stop signs and traffic signals were not among the
"freedoms" cyclists possess.
|7.26.07 @ 10:59AM|#
Uh, I guess I'd have to agree, jimmy. I'm actually a cyclist myself, though I'm fairly lucky that I live near the Erie Canal trail and most of the places I'd bike to are on the same network of trails, so I don't have to go on actual roads for very long.
|7.26.07 @ 11:01AM|#
I am a road cyclist, and it annoys me greatly to see cyclists riding against traffic. It is extremely unsafe and just gives us a bad rep. I admit to blowing through stop signs out in the country, but all the cars do so as well, if that is any justification.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 11:03AM|#
Unfortunately, crimethink, there are no bike lanes in the city I live in, and most definitely no bike trails. As for riding on sidewalks, you have better statistical safety while riding on roads. So, I get more than a little upset when motorists think we don't belong on rowads.
|7.26.07 @ 11:04AM|#
So perhaps the most important question here, as many of you have
hinted at, is this: when does a health problem that affects
individuals become a "public health" problem?
Now, I know that many of you will answer "never", but I would think
that at least in theory there is a point where if enough
individuals suffered from a health problem it would negatively
effect people who did not.
Rhywun|7.26.07 @ 11:09AM|#
Unfortunately, a lot of us were taught in school to ride on the
wrong side of the road, facing traffic. I don't know if they
finally fixed that.
Love the Erie Canal trail. When they opened up the new part of the
390 when I was a teenager I used to ride from Greece down to
Genesee Valley Park all the time. Now I live in NYC and I've
thought of buying a bike but the idea of riding it anywhere around
here kind of scares me.
Schutz|7.26.07 @ 11:17AM|#
"I'm with SIV (shudders) in calling BS on this one. "The body"
can't even get at the allergen until it's already in the small
intestine, so it would be too late to prevent the digestive system
from experiencing an allergic reaction.
Furthermore, how does the allergen get from the small intestine to
the fat cells, in your model? You're not seriously telling me that
the body dumps allergens into the bloodstream to get them away from
the digestive system."
An allergen isn't an allergen until it makes it through damaged
small intestine walls (thanks antibiotics!) into the bloodstream as
a protein larger than dipeptides. Once inside the blood an
inflammatory response is initiated to eliminate the offending
protein. Inflammation first mobilizes fat in the prostaglandin
pathway. Second, inflammation (Especially chronic, as in you eat
your food allergies daily) causes the release of cortisol, a
hormone with the effect of causing fat to mobilize from the
periphery (arms and legs) and store centrally. Hence the central
obesity with cartoon-like small arms and legs on most fat but not
too fat fat people.
Cactus|7.26.07 @ 11:17AM|#
Just let the hate flow through you. They're fat so it's
ok.
Why can't we just round up the obese and put them into camps and
start exterminating them? Use their corpulent cadavers as raw
materials for industrial products. Render their lard for lubricants
and soaps. Harvest their organs. Bank their blood. Remove their
eyes. Grind their bones as fertilizer. Let nothing go to
waste.
You could even keep some alive in zoos or to play games with or to
ride or to pit against each other in gladiator combat. Perhaps keep
some of the little fat kids around to pull small carts or to just
throw things at or to teach to perform amusing tricks. I mean
they're obese. They're subhuman. They're the types who go to
wal-mart and probably like nascar or live in trailer parks or go
hunting. I mean those types out of all types deserve this sort of
treatment from the skinny erudite classes. They'd be better off
dead anyway and their betters wouldn't be burdened by having to
look at their disgusting bloated forms, they wouldn't be such a
drain on healthcare and they wouldn't be such an embarrassment to
the nation when other countries see them.
|7.26.07 @ 11:22AM|#
Rhywun,
Yeah, it is great. Plus, they've put in a trail that goes from
downtown Roch all the way to Geneseo along the Genessee. (Though I
think there are still a few sections where you have to go onto
roads)
Every year I say that I'm going to make that trip to and from
Buffalo on the Canal Trail...maybe this'll be the year. But, I'll
probably laze out and not do it (again).
|7.26.07 @ 11:22AM|#
All health problems effect individuals.
Obviously what I meant was health problems that affect strictly
individuals, as opposed to communicable disases and the like that
affect groups of people.
This study may imply that your personal psychology is altered by
the people you hang around, but nobody is literally saying that
obesity can be "caught" - you still have to consume a lot more
calories than you burn. But that doesn't necessarily mean that
obesity is not a public health issue.
|7.26.07 @ 11:28AM|#
Does anyone know how heavy the people who did this study are? It
may give you some insight into their intentions.
As a former fatty, I can tell you that fat people are always
looking for a reason why they are so fat, when they can't seem to
accept the whole "diet and exercise" thing that's been around for a
while. This study merely suggests that hanging around people with
better eating and exercise habbits tends to make people have better
eating and exercise habbits themselves. That's it! Tout!
Alles!
Everyone knows that when they go to visit their southern
grandparents they come back having packed on a few pounds,
right?
|7.26.07 @ 11:45AM|#
In March I became a daily bicyle commuter in Chicago. To all the people here stating "gee I hate the law-breaking cyclists too and wish they wouldn't give us other cyclists a bad name," drop it. Cyclists NEVER obey traffic signals, unless the intersection is so busy they literally can't cross without getting killed.
|7.26.07 @ 11:46AM|#
OK.
Ah dew de-clah, all health problems uh-fect individuals, now.
That time, I affected a Truman Capote-ish persona.
highnumber|7.26.07 @ 11:48AM|#
jimmy (or Mr Steven Crane, or any other cyclists),
Bicycle Rules of the Road question:
How is one supposed top make a left turn at a busy
intersection?
Lately, I have noticed a lot of cyclists using the left turn lane.
This seems more dangerous than using the crosswalk. Which is
correct when riding?
VM|7.26.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Eric (S): that's cuz you're probably late for your show with
Cathy...
[ducks]
|7.26.07 @ 11:48AM|#
Vanessa:
Something like designing programs for groups of people who want
to lose weight that would really stress mutually supporting one
another to develop and maintain healthier eating habits.
You mean like the show 'Biggest Loser'?
|7.26.07 @ 11:49AM|#
bob-cat,
I'm not just screwing with you. I'm seriously trying to get at the
logic of the point you're making.
Obviously what I meant was health problems that affect strictly
individuals, as opposed to communicable disases and the like that
affect groups of people.
Obesity affects groups of people. Lots of people have obesity. This
study, and a whole lot of other studies, demonstrate that external
factors that large groups of Americans are subject to can
contribute to the condition.
Why is germ-communication the relevant criteria for distinguishing
"private" vs. "public" health issues?
VM|7.26.07 @ 11:50AM|#
(sorry for double)
places I've ridden had the rule that the cyclists cross the street
and use the crosswalk.
want to turn left off of LaSalle to Goethe: Cross Goethe on LaSalle
- to the north side of Goethe.
Stop. Wait for light. Go west on Goethe (have to cross LaSalle).
But the signal to stop was holding your right hand up, not down, so
go figure
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 11:53AM|#
Not the case here, Eric S. So, no, I won't drop it.
Just as all motorists should obey traffic laws, so should cyclists.
Especially cyclists, I should say, if only to keep from getting
killed by motorists. Unfortunately, they don't think of possible
consequences when the break traffic laws.
I also wish police would do more to enforce traffic laws with
cyclists. Where I live, I occasionally see cyclists riding against
traffic while police cruisers pass them by. The cops never do a
thing about it. It really frustrates me.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 11:58AM|#
highnumber | July 26, 2007, 11:48am | #
jimmy (or Mr Steven Crane, or any other cyclists),
Bicycle Rules of the Road question:
How is one supposed top make a left turn at a busy
intersection?
Lately, I have noticed a lot of cyclists using the left turn lane.
This seems more dangerous than using the crosswalk. Which is
correct when riding?
Well, highnumber, the answer is: Either way. Legally. As for
anecdote, I usually use the left turn lane, and have never
encountered any problems. The few times when I have been forced to
use a crosswalk I had to resort to my Frogger skills in
order to get across safely. Statistically, you are more likely to
get hit on sidewalks and crosswalks than you are on the road.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 12:09PM|#
As for cyclists in the middle of the road, I will say this in
their (our) defense.
When I first started commuting to work on a bicycle, I would stay
as far right on the road as possible. Unfortunately, this gave the
motorists and semi-truck drivers the idea that it was OK for them
to pass me with just inches to spare on my left side. So, as time
went on, and I grew a little more comfortable with the idea, I
decided I would prevent this from happening. I got a mirror on my
helmet so that I could keep an eye on the vehicles coming behind
me. Now, when I see a vehicle approaching from behind, and another
vehicle approaching in the opposite lane that would prevent the one
behind me from passing with a safe distance, I simply move towards
the center of the lane and keep them from passing. I know it
seems like an asshole thing to do, but I have to watch out
for my own safety first and foremost. Since I started doing the
"block the lane" technique, I haven't had many vehicles, and, most
importantly, ZERO semi-trucks pass too close to me. So, sometimes
you just have to be an asshole if you want to be safe...there's no
way around it.
e|7.26.07 @ 12:16PM|#
I feel safest bicycling with other bicyclists around me. There's safety in numbers: I don't know if there's any stats on it but it sure feels safer. Car drivers have a harder time ignoring two or three bicycles than they do just one. I guess that makes me a collectivist moocher thug; yippee!
VM|7.26.07 @ 12:33PM|#
jimmy -
I don't understand what you mean about the crosswalk?
I used to live in a bicycle country, and the rule was you crossed
the street onto which you wanted to turn, wait on the right curb
for the light to change, and proceed on the new street after the
light has changed. (or they had bike lanes with their own
signals)
Semi trucks passing too close to you? that's freaking
frightening!
yowza. Just remember how you feel that the UKROBOLD has sacrificed
Mr. Steven Crane's taint for your bike safety!
dhex|7.26.07 @ 1:13PM|#
"This study merely suggests that hanging around people with
better eating and exercise habbits tends to make people have better
eating and exercise habbits themselves."
that would seem to be the case right there. if your friends are
hanging out smoking blunts kicking it all the time you have a
different influence on your habits than if they're always hiking or
cycling or whatever. (though the best mix would seem to be hiking
during the day, blunts in the evening with 4 or 5 sensible small
meals?)
Another Phil|7.26.07 @ 1:15PM|#
A few days ago, I saw a cyclist who thought that a van had cut
him off (it hadn't). He then started riding alongside the van's
passenger window flipping off the driver. Because he had stopped
looking ahead of him, he ran right into the back of another car.
Hilarious justice.
Another time, I was parking my motorcycle on a one-way street. To
adjust my angle against the curb, I pulled out a few feet into the
street after checking in the direction cars were supposed
to be coming from. A delivery person on a bicycle riding down
the street in the wrong direction smashed into me. No real harm
done, but I was pretty pissed. His chain had come off and he stared
me down the entire time he was putting it back on as if it were my
fault.
My point: lot of cyclists are inconsiderate assholes.
P.S. jimmydageek, I use the same middle-of-the lane strategy on my
motorcycle. I'm not so afraid of trucks though; limo drivers are by
far the worst, followed by taxi drivers and buses, then the
protect-my-car-at-any-cost assholes who swerve to avoid potholes
and recessed manhole covers.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 1:17PM|#
Yes, I truly appreciate Mr. Steven Crane sacrificing his taint
for the safety of other cyclists.
That said, what I meant by crosswalks is just that; that little
area between those little marked lines that run parallel to the
road you are on, and perpendicular to the road you are trying to
cross, which have a signal on both ends that display either a hand,
or a "walk" or something of that nature. Motorists that are turning
onto or off of the road which you are trying to cross tend to
forget that pedestrians and cyclists have the right of way.
Therefore, I avoid crosswalks or sidewalks and use the road lanes
whenever possible. The only times I will begrudgingly use the
crosswalk is when I cannot safely make it from the right side of
the road to the left turn lane.
And, yes, semi-trucks passing closely is incredibly scary. All I
can do is close my eyes and pray...or take the chance of riding in
the grass / dirt with my skinny road bike tires, as there are no
paved shoulders on my commute to work.
|7.26.07 @ 1:37PM|#
Gaijin, I'm not familiar with the show. But since it's a
competition to lose the most weight, might the contestants subtly
try to sabotage one another?
Or is the whole premise based mutual insults and scorn, a la the
"Fat Fighters" vignettes on Little Britain?
Another Phil,
Once a cyclist ran into the back of my car. I got cut off by a car
that stopped while using the bicycle lane to make a right turn. I
was new to city driving so instead of aggressively whipping around
him to get through the light as I might do now, I stopped. Then I
looked in my rearview mirror and saw a cyclist pedaling furiously
behind me in an attempt to follow me through the light. He pedaled
right into my car, rolled partially onto the trunk, and then fell
to the ground. His front wheel was bent and he was furious. But
hey, he shouldn't have attempted to follow a car like that. When I
saw how angry he was I drove off. It was clear from his angry
jumping around that he blamed me and was not rational.
When I think back on it, it was really funny watching him cycle
right into the back of my car.
jimmydageek|7.26.07 @ 1:47PM|#
I, too, would laugh at something like that, Vanessa. However, I don't know if driving off was a good idea, only because you could have been charged with fleeing the scene of an accident, even though the accident was clearly the cyclists fault. Just something to consider if it were to ever happen again.
|7.26.07 @ 2:14PM|#
Thanks, jimmy. And you are completely right. I drove off because
he seemed kind of nuts, and also more interested in yelling about
it to this homeless guy on the sidewalk than about approaching me.
I did actually linger long enough to see if he seemed interested in
talking about it. But if something like that happens again I'd
probably find out if the person wanted to contact the police. I
think I'm less intimidated now than I was then.
Hell, Jered Townsend doesn't even scare me.
|7.26.07 @ 2:54PM|#
joe said, "And if I should happen to run down one of the dumb
bastards because they run a red light or cut in front of me, that
is just too damn bad to. I honestly I can't say I would feel to bad
about thining the gene pool in such a manner..."
As a bicylist, I'd like to thank you, joe, for showing that your
statist views are based on a love for humanity. I can rest easier
knowing that your incessant advocacy for larger government is based
on a desire to help your fellow human beings.
|7.26.07 @ 3:03PM|#
Ethan: I am a road cyclist, and it annoys me greatly to see
cyclists riding against traffic. It is extremely unsafe and just
gives us a bad rep.
ERIC S: To all the people here stating "gee I hate the
law-breaking cyclists too and wish they wouldn't give us other
cyclists a bad name," drop it. Cyclists NEVER obey traffic signals,
unless the intersection is so busy they literally can't cross
without getting killed.
Thanks for proving my point, Eric. That's exactly the attitude I
was referring to.
|7.26.07 @ 3:49PM|#
Apology accepted, jh. But not graciously.
As a bicylist, I'd like to thank you, joe, for showing that
your statist views are based on a love for humanity. I can rest
easier knowing that your incessant advocacy for larger government
is based on a desire to help your fellow human beings.,/i>
So now that you realize that the bit of hate speech in question
actually comes from someone whose political beliefs are quite
similar to your own, I trust your deep-seated sense of honor and
intellectual honesty will lead you to draw the same conclusion
about the humanitarian motivations of right-leaning
libertarians.
Nah, just kidding. Of course you won't.
BTW, are you sure you don't want to post under another name,
agreeing with yourself, but leave your own email address in the
link? Again?
|7.26.07 @ 4:17PM|#
joe,
I wouldn't mock others for sloppiness with the name and email
fields if I were you. ;-)
DaveT|7.26.07 @ 4:22PM|#
Isn't it just as likely that someone starts making fat friends at the point that they decide that fat isn't such a big deal (so that their weight subsequently catches up with them)? Don't most people tend to get fatter as they get older? If fat people hang out with skinny people do they get skinnier?
|7.26.07 @ 7:25PM|#
I believe it!!! It's been known to happen in other instances and the authors/researchers are living proof...just look what happens when they hang around idiots and stupid people...it's contagious also.
|7.26.07 @ 8:47PM|#
joe, I appreciate your (self-described) ungracious acceptance of
my apology for my hasty and sloppy misreading of the name field in
a post, and thinking it was you. Re: your comment: "So now that you
realize that the bit of hate speech in question actually comes from
someone whose political beliefs are quite similar to your own, I
trust your deep-seated sense of honor and intellectual honesty will
lead you to draw the same conclusion about the humanitarian
motivations of right-leaning libertarians."
Don't know the political views of the person in question. However,
as you are not a left-leaning libertarian, but an actual statist
leftist by your own admission, you can't say you're just on the
other side of the libertarian continuun of a right-leaning
lib.
Gonna be people with views I personally find obnoxious in (and
outside) the libertarian camp. No doubt many people find some of my
views obnoxious. The point is that libertarian-leaning folks tend
to cause less harm with their obnoxious views, since they tend to
not try to impose them on others unless they feel their rights are
being trodden upon. Whereas you are OK with stealing money from
total strangers (under the guise of taxation), and using those
ill-gotten gains to hire total strangers to bomb other total
strangers who have caused you no personal affront. Real
libertarians don't do that. So, I'll take a personally obnoxious
right-wing libertarian over your purported humanitarianism any day
-- unless that libertarian tries to run me over while bicycling.
Though I try to bicycle with aloha, and not p*** off car drivers,
so hopefully that won't happen.
Again, thanks for accepting my apology!
|7.27.07 @ 2:41AM|#
""What spreads is an idea. As people around you invade other countries, your attitudes about what constitutes an acceptable body count changes, and you might follow suit and emulate that kill ratio of civilians," [Nicholas A. Christakis of Harvard Medical School, who led the study] said. [emphasis added]
|7.27.07 @ 7:06AM|#
Lots of fat libs out there-I can't wait to see how this one plays out. I'm lovin this as an ex-smoker that somehow managed to stay thin after she quit.
|7.27.07 @ 10:56AM|#
The way to use their finding is to develop a program that
utilizes existing social networks as a starting point to spread
information about healthy diet and exercise and provide social
support for developing healthier habits. The program would need to
use existing social ties - both weak and strong ties - and seek to
develop new ties. Information is spread faster where there are weak
ties. It would probably work best if the initial recruits were part
of a larger social group that would already include clusters of
strong ties with weak ties to other clusters. Maybe recruiting at
the end of PTA meetings or something where people who are
interested in hearing the spiel would stick around for it. Everyone
who wants to participate would say, try to recruit one other person
from outside the group to participate as well and the overall
network would grow.
It should be a long-term committment that is not too intense so
there wouldn't be a mass exodus in the early stages. The focus
should be not on weight loss but on healthier eating and exercise
and long term change. Even slow progress would desireable and
should probably be the expected norm. There would be few early
group meetings to get things underway, and after that people would
get together in small groups (not more than 3 people) on a regular
basis, maybe twice a month, and either go out for a healthy meal or
prepare one at someone's home. At then end of each year, people
would go individually to the clinic/community center/school for a
basic physical, including weight, % body fat, cholesteral and
things of that nature. Other members of the group would never know
a persons outcomes unless the person voluntarily shared it. After
everyone has their physical, there is a party with healthy snacks
and dancing.
Dietary guidelines would be sensible, based on perhaps the American
Dietetic Association's position papers on healthy eating, including
NO demonization of individual foods like trans fats. There would be
no food ideology about GMOs, organics, or vegetarianism.
The program would last for ten years.
It's just a stab at sketching out a meaningful response to their
central finding about social networks and weight.
|7.29.07 @ 7:42PM|#
This study shows an association between obesity and social affiliation but that is a long way from showing causation. The authors acknowledge that it is well known that people affect one another in many different ways. I am not sure about describing this as being like the flu spreading through a population is an accurate depiction of the results. Social behavior theories posit that behavior is a complex phenomenon that is affected by many different levels of social interaction, from the individual to the community. I do not doubt that there is an association between the weight of related people or friends, but there are many possible confounders involved. This study does give some quantification to the association but it is difficult for me to see how this can help to inform future interventions for obesity.
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