Ellison, I Know This World Is Killing You

David Weigel | July 18, 2007

The Keith Ellison-9/11-Reichstag story is so old it's growing fungi. Michael C. Moynihan blogged it on July 9, and I blogged a slightly different take on July 16. It's more than a week since Ellison compared 9/11 to the Reichstag fire and who should arrive over the horizon, toting his own soapbox, but Abe Foxman: The Bill Donohue of anti-anti-Semitism. Or maybe Bill Donohue is the Abe Foxman of mythical anti-Catholic bigotry. Really, who cares?

Congressman Keith Ellison's comments comparing the rise of Nazism in the aftermath of the burning of the Reichstag to the War on Terror in the aftermath of 9/11 is outrageous and offensive to all Americans. Whatever his views may be on the Administration's response to 9/11 and the conduct of the War on Terrorism, likening it to Hitler's rise to power and Nazism is odious and demeans the victims of 9/11 and the brave American men and women engaged in the War on Terror. Furthermore, it demonstrates a profound lack of understanding about the horrors that Hitler and his Nazi regime perpetrated.

Look: No. No, it doesn't. It reflects a little historical laziness and unfamiliarity with the sinking of the Maine or the Gulf of Tonkin, both of which would have been better analogies. But as I argued at length two years ago, when Dick Durbin disgraced the memory of 6 million Jews by saying he didn't groove on legal torture, Nazi analogies don't minimize the Holocaust. That's especially true if you're referring to things the Nazis did long before the Final Solution. Ellison was comparing the Reichstag fire and its consequences -- the crackdown on the Communist Party, the Enabling Act -- with 9/11, the PATRIOT Act, and the Iraq War. That's still a huge, stupid overstatement, but since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

Republicans who want an issue to beat the Democrats on and don't seem too interested in the big glowing briefcase labelled "official corruption" are going after Ellison. Here's a statement by Eric Cantor and Zach Wamp, who'd probably get over the whole ordeal if only Fred Thompson would rock him on his knee and sing "Hush-a-Bye."

Comments

|7.18.07 @ 8:20AM|#

but since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

Daily?

edna|7.18.07 @ 8:28AM|#

since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

whenever possible?

underzog|7.18.07 @ 8:33AM|#

Ellison's smearing of Pres. Bush with Hitler is particularly egregious since Islam tries to replicate Hitler's actions toward the Jews.

Also, Ellison pointed out that he is with the truthers or sympathetic to them, but explained he wants to be clever and not be painted in the tinfoil hat category by speaking what those atheist deadheads believe to be the truth about U.S. complicity in 9/11. Ellison sounds like a truther supporter, but won't say so publicly for tactical reasons.

"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"

|7.18.07 @ 8:35AM|#

but since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

You're kidding, right?

|7.18.07 @ 9:07AM|#

Abe Foxman? The Sausage King of Chicago?

D.A. Ridgely|7.18.07 @ 9:08AM|#

Thank gawd! For a moment there I thought this was about Harlan Ellison. Anyway, a flagellated congressman would be an evolutionary advance.

|7.18.07 @ 9:17AM|#

Ellsion, sometimes I wish that I could stop you from talking when I hear the silly things that you say.

Warren|7.18.07 @ 9:18AM|#

ProL
Understanding allows people like us
to tolerate a person like yourself. :)

|7.18.07 @ 9:23AM|#

Warren,

I believe a sequel is order, involving none of the original cast but focusing exclusively on what happened when Abe Frohman, Sausage King of Chicago, finally arrived and asked for his table.

Brian Carnell|7.18.07 @ 9:38AM|#

David's description conveniently leaves out the actual remarks Ellison said which really don't fit David's description. What Ellison said was,

"It's almost like the Reichstag fire, kind of reminds me of that. After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it, and it put the leader of that country in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted."

This is clearly 9/11 Truther nonsense. It is almost universally held that the Nazis themselves bunred the Reichstag then blamed others so Hitler could accelerate his seizure of power.

Ellison here is clearly appealing to the conspiracy nuts who think Bush/Cheney staged 9/11, and it these conspiracy theories do demean the victims of 9/11 as well as diminish the culpability of the Al Qaeda nutcases who carried out those attacks.

|7.18.07 @ 9:51AM|#

Ellison does have a point in the sense that regardless of whether or not BushCo was behind 9/11, they certainly used it to their advantage in much the same manner as Hitler did after the Reichstag fire. I guess either BushCo did it, allowed it to happen, or it was just an amazingly lucky coincidence - the "pearl harbor moment" that Wolfowitz longed for.

Whatever happened, you'd think that members of a politcal philosophy that is often dismissed by the mainstream as being for "nuts" would have a little more sympathy for people like the 9/11 truth movement.

Brian Carnell|7.18.07 @ 9:53AM|#

My bad. I see now that Ellison then said "The fact is that I'm not saying [Sept. 11] was a [U.S.] plan, or anything like that because, you know, that's how they put you in the nut-ball box -- dismiss you."

Brian Carnell|7.18.07 @ 9:56AM|#

"Whatever happened, you'd think that members of a politcal philosophy that is often dismissed by the mainstream as being for "nuts" would have a little more sympathy for people like the 9/11 truth movement."

Why? Should we also have more sympathy for the creationists who are often dismissed by the mainstream?

|7.18.07 @ 9:58AM|#

Oh, posh. We wanted the administration to "do something" after 9/11. That's why the people, the Congress, and the press went along so quietly when we first invaded Afghanistan and later, Iraq. I think it was their eagerness and our collective pressure on them to act that made what normally would not have been sufficient justification for a war into a lovely casus belli.

We're nasty when we get provoked. Honestly, everyone talks about leaving the Middle East alone, but let me suggest that they should have an even greater motive to leave us alone. We're just too unpredictable.

|7.18.07 @ 9:59AM|#

ProL,

A last minute emergency prevented Abe from ever going to lunch. He had to found the Save Ferris Foundation.

|7.18.07 @ 10:00AM|#

Trying to think of a reason to care about the Ellison story...

Umm... uhh...

NOPE! Next thread...

|7.18.07 @ 10:15AM|#

Gosh, I only clicked on this link because I thought that this was about a new book by Harlan Ellison.

Honestly, doesn't "I Know This World Is Killing You" sound like the title of a book he'd right? Who's with me on this?

|7.18.07 @ 10:16AM|#

Why? Should we also have more sympathy for the creationists who are often dismissed by the mainstream?

I don't think so. Creationism is strongly aligned with the Religious Right which is obviously not a group that libertarians would be interested in promoting.

But the "9/11 Truthers" are a group that is interested in exposing what they beleive are government lies and cover-ups. Even if you don't think there's anything to it, I would think that libertarians would appreciate any effort along those lines.

I mean, there are plenty of questions about 9/11 that have never been really addressed, and the official story asks us to swallow some pretty dubious explanations and facts.

|7.18.07 @ 10:17AM|#

"Write" not "right". :-P

|7.18.07 @ 10:19AM|#

I was thinking Harlan too. I only just now got the Elvis Costello reference.

|7.18.07 @ 10:28AM|#

Sometimes it's hard being the coolest cat in the room.

|7.18.07 @ 10:34AM|#

Ellison was comparing the Reichstag fire and its consequences -- the crackdown on the Communist Party, the Enabling Act -- with 9/11, the PATRIOT Act, and the Iraq War. That's still a huge, stupid overstatement, but since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

Somebody please tell me I'm not the only one to pick up on the irony of this statement coming from a Reason writer?

|7.18.07 @ 10:38AM|#

Dan T.,

3 of the first 4 comments did just that. Thanks for proving you've no intention of engaging in discussion.

highnumber|7.18.07 @ 10:49AM|#

Who are sillier:

9/11 Truthers

or

Paranoid anti-Muslim bigots?

Really, I can't decide. Help.

|7.18.07 @ 10:49AM|#

No, jf, the irony I mean is that Reason engages in similar hyperbole on a regular basis.

highnumber|7.18.07 @ 10:51AM|#

Watch Dan T. dig himself an even deeper hole!

|7.18.07 @ 10:53AM|#

I'd have to say Truthers. At least some Muslims did actually kill some of us, notwithstanding the inappropriateness of condemning everyone who practices the same religion. The Truthers have no facts to support their nonsense.

|7.18.07 @ 10:57AM|#

The Truthers have no facts to support their nonsense.

You mean no facts except the ones that you disregard out of hand.

|7.18.07 @ 11:01AM|#

Dan T.,

And these facts are?

P.S. I personally will consider "facts" from Alex Jones to be junk, as Jones claims to have "proof" that oil deposits replenish themselves...

|7.18.07 @ 11:02AM|#

Highnumber,

Honestly, Harlan Ellison really did some batshit crazy stuff, too.

|7.18.07 @ 11:07AM|#

What's the connection between atheists and truthers? Most atheists pride themselves on being rational.

|7.18.07 @ 11:07AM|#

Dan T.,

And these facts are?

They're easily found if you're interested.

(My favorite: the BBC clip where the reporter on the scene in NYC discusses the collapse of WTC7 while the building stands in the background.)

Keep in mind, I'm not a 9/11 conspiracist myself, but I certainly don't think the government is suddenly to be 100% trusted on this one issue. I don't know if they new something was going to happen on 9/11/01 but they must have known something was going down and appeared to take no efforts to stop it.

|7.18.07 @ 11:14AM|#

(My favorite: the BBC clip where the reporter on the scene in NYC discusses the collapse of WTC7 while the building stands in the background.)

I haven't seen this yet, but is he reporting that the 1st building went down?

I know it's tough for us to remember 9-11, being ADD-ridden Americans and all, but the buildings fell at different times.

(This remark is not to imply "Remember 9-11 so we can go kill some A-rabs!" It is worth remembering, despite it's use as a rally cry)

|7.18.07 @ 11:14AM|#

There's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to BushCo having a hand in bringing down the towers. People need to wake up to the fact that this administration is responsible for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, including our own citizens.

I don't think the comparison of Bush to Hitler is apt. That would be unfair to Hitler.

BTW, Dan T. @ 11:07 is a spoof.

|7.18.07 @ 11:16AM|#

What's the connection between atheists and truthers?

So this atheist and this truther walk into a bar...

|7.18.07 @ 11:18AM|#

BTW, Dan T. @ 11:07 is a spoof.

Trolls trolling trolls!

BobDobalina|7.18.07 @ 11:23AM|#

Honestly, doesn't "I Know This World Is Killing You" sound like the title of a book he'd right? Who's with me on this?

That would the title of the upcoming story on the last Harry Potter novel, Reason's stand on IP piracy, and how sales will not be affected by the photocopied breach this week.

Followed by the Palestinian Authority releasing its own bootlegged version of Rowling's work in which Potter blows up a checkpoint screaming ululations at the top of his lungs ...

edna|7.18.07 @ 11:24AM|#

oh man, this is great. miss-the-point, spluttering, followed by a surreal troll series. get the popcorn.

i'm constantly amazed at the spontaneous creativity that arises out of the commenter chaos.

highnumber|7.18.07 @ 11:28AM|#

Trolls who troll trolls are the luckiest...

|7.18.07 @ 12:27PM|#

but since when do we flagellate members of Congress for hyperbole?

Ask Trent Lott about that. Giving glowing compliments to a centenarian at his birthday party, without having them vetted by your PR staff, is a dangerous thing for a politician.

|7.18.07 @ 1:31PM|#

mullah cimoc say blog man him so brainwash. him spend too much him time for watch jack bauer tv show.

question:
-who recruit rush limbugh? A. Roger Ailes.
-where roger ailes work? A. Fox news.
-who own the fox tv? A. rupert murdoch.
-Who own william kristol magaizne always never make the profit just the brainwasher for masters in tel aviv? A. rupert murdoch.
-Who with limbaugh when catching him with sex pill coming back from sex slave country? A. Producers of jack bauer fantasy torture tv show.
-who owning network putting out jack bauer tv fantasy torture show? A. Rupert Murdoch.
-Who recruit hannity radio show? A. Rogers Ailes.
-Where work roger ailes? A. Rupert Murdoch.

for this usa media so control and not free. them call it the perversion.

all world knowing him neocon start irak war. him neocon spy for israeli and israeli agent in usa. but usa media afraid mention him word "neocon". ending up like the imus? This called the terror.

in true usa man having good mutual trading benefit with him muslim for more than 150 years. for 60 years usa and saudi both making the so much money and the good trade relation.

now israeli spy and agent control media making dumbest 20% ameriki thinking must kill all the muslim. this so stupid. this like want kill all catholic because most meth distributor in usa him catholic and mexico. only idiot then to blame all catholic for meth dealer problem in usa.

most ameriki now hating the masters in tel aviv and want regain freedom and independence from foreign domination. this a good sign. soon him braveheart ameriki rising up. this them call a "rising".

[e-mail]

|7.18.07 @ 1:57PM|#

Ellison knows his constituency.

As a politician, you could do a lot worse than throwing a sidelong nod to the parsimony impaired fucktards that make up the bulk of the 9/11 truther gang.

It's about positioning for citizen support, not what "really" happened on 9/11.

lunchstealer|7.18.07 @ 2:15PM|#

You know, I've always hated that song, and I lost a little respect for Elvis Costello when I found out that he was responsible for it.

Actually, I lost all respect, because I mostly just had default respect for his general reputation but no actual knowledge of his repertoire. I just assumed that it was one of those things that the cool kids knew about and my musical life dinking around in prog, zeppelinesque classic rock, and whatever I picked up from college folk around me just hadn't epxposed me to. But no, it looks like I never ran into Costello because I avoid lame lounge acts.

|7.18.07 @ 2:28PM|#

lunchstealer, I grew up loving (and still do) "prog, zeppelinesque classic rock," but Costello is only "lame" when he shows up late for gigs. Sometimes he does a lounge act (like many greats before him) and sometimes he rocks out. Either way, he's the Cole Porter of our time and we're lucky to have him.

Jay|7.18.07 @ 2:36PM|#

9/11/2001, Pentagon. This still bugs me. Where is the Boeing 757-sized hole? In fact, where is the Boeing 757? - http://i19.tinypic.com/4t7idnb.png

Major Douglas Rokke, PhD, U.S. Army (ret) - Former Director U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project.

"When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile. And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile."

G.W. (Jerry) Longspaugh, MS Aerospace Engineering (1942 - 2006) - Retired Aerospace Engineer.

"The debris found outside the Pentagon is inconsistent with the impact of a Boeing 757 or any aircraft of comparable dimensions. In particular, in the absence of some agency (possibly unknown to physical science) that removed the wings, there is no way to avoid the conclusion that the wings (and therefore the aircraft) were never present in the first place. In this case, no Boeing 757 struck the Pentagon building on the morning of September 11, 2001."

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force - Former Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Retired commercial airline pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years.

"It's roughly a 100 ton airplane. And an airplane that weighs 100 tons all assembled is still going to have 100 tons of disassembled trash and parts after it hits a building. There was no wreckage from a 757 at the Pentagon. … The vehicle that hit the Pentagon was not Flight 77. We think, as you may have heard before, it was a cruise missile."

Watch Loose Change:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501#0h17m23s

st911.org

lunchstealer|7.18.07 @ 2:38PM|#

I'm still willing to reevaluate him, but seriously, "Alison" is a lame lounge song.

Then again, I'm not a big Cole Porter fan, so what do I know?

Urkobold™|7.18.07 @ 2:42PM|#

OH, HOLY MISSILE! MY FAITH IN YOU IS INFINITE! IN THE BEGINNING, THERE WAS THE MISSILE, WHICH WAS NOT A PLANE. AND IT WAS GOOD. AND THE GOVERNMENT SET IT UPON THE PENTAGON, CLOUDING THE EYES OF WITNESSES AND EXPERTS. YEA, IT IS NOT A PLANE (IT IS NOT A PLANE, SO SAY WE ALL).

THE URKOBOLD REMINDS TRUTHERS THAT THIS IS HOW THE MUTANTS IN BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES GOT STARTED.

|7.18.07 @ 2:53PM|#

Well, we can pack this thread up and ship it, because mullah cimoc has said all that needs to be said on this issue.

highnumber|7.18.07 @ 3:09PM|#

mullah cimoc is sort of famous.
Read the comments here.

|7.18.07 @ 3:30PM|#

Mullah Cimroc is nowhere near as gonzo as this one poster from Southwest Asia who, in reference to the crash of that EgyptAir flight (allegedly done because the co-pilot cut the engines and flew the aircraft into the ocean,) claimed that he might have just been trying to evade a heat-seeking missile -- just like Joe Patroni (expertly played by George Kennedy) did in 1979's "The Concorde...Airport '79". I am not making that one up.

|7.18.07 @ 3:30PM|#

I feel left out. No mullah cimoc postings to Urkobold? Especially after you've forced us to go to Star Trek Wednesdays? Harumph.

|7.18.07 @ 3:46PM|#

" CLOUDING THE EYES OF WITNESSES AND EXPERTS "

Two words: mass hypnosis

Happens all the time.

|7.18.07 @ 4:14PM|#

Did someone mention a heeb-seeking missile?

underzog|7.18.07 @ 4:40PM|#

"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"

highnumber|7.18.07 @ 5:12PM|#

"I'll post just my lame signature; that makes me cool!"

Ted Nugent|7.18.07 @ 5:41PM|#

Wang dang, sweet poon tang.

Underzog|7.18.07 @ 8:51PM|#

Medina is a Jewish city and should be restored to them. Who is the demon posessed pedophile Mohammed to rob the Jews of the city they founded, Medina (Yathrib)? Let's restore Medina (Yathrib) to their rightful owners, the Jews!

Other important proposals:
Amendment to ban Islam
Proposal to expell the Arabs from Israel

"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"

Rick H.|7.18.07 @ 10:24PM|#

I urge all Iraq hawks to follow "Underzog's" links and see just what kind of grade-A intellectuals you're aligning yourself with.

If the moral logic seems fuzzy and the "I flunked Junior High civics" writing strikes you as retarded, you might try huffing a bit of paint thinner.

Underzog|7.19.07 @ 12:48AM|#

Clowns like you and high number are grade-A intellectuals?

Support for the raging savages of Islam is not the mark of an intellectual; it is the mark of a nihilist who gets off at the violence the islamics do.

If you drugged out parodies of hippies (who were themselves drugged out parodies) hold yourselves to be grade-A intellectuals, then the grading system is seriously flawed and one should have a different set of grades that one arrives at without being in a mary jane or LSD induced fog.


"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"

Rick H.|7.19.07 @ 2:39AM|#

Clowns like you and high number are grade-A intellectuals?

...nice reading comprehension, superhero.

highnumber|7.19.07 @ 2:32PM|#

Nyuk nyuk nyuk...

Underzog|7.19.07 @ 5:42PM|#

In fairness, not all Libertarians are Rhoemites and brain dead traitors for the Islamists. Some, such as Neal Boortz, are patriotic and write admirable things: It's a cult it's not even a religion!

"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"

Underzog|7.19.07 @ 6:37PM|#

From the previous link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Neal Boortz: It's a cult it's not even a religion. . ..

Boortz: You don't have a word of condemnation in you until the non-Islamic world rises up and starts to make it clear that we are fed up with your damned religion. We've had it up to here.

And somebody, like I said yesterday, somebody needs to grab the Muslim world by the shirt collar, backhand it a good one, knock it into the damn corner and say straighten up or we're gonna eradicate you beetles from the face of the Earth. . .

LISTEN TO THE AUDIO CLIP:

(Click twice on start button.)