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Open the Door and Let 'Em In
The Senate's immigration bill is unpopular, sure. But an Arizona poll suggests that the provisions that get the most kicks on cable news—the paths to citizenship for illegal workers—are popular in the state where the border debate rages the loudest.
Most Arizonans are willing to let those already in the country illegally stay, if they meet certain conditions, according to a new survey.
In a statewide poll of 386 voters, conducted earlier this month, 68 percent of respondents said they would support a provision in the federal immigration bill that provides a path to citizenship for the estimated 12 million people in the country who crossed the border illegally.Another 26 percent were opposed, with the balance undecided.
He said the questions are designed to help "the traitors (Sens. John) McCain and (Jon) Kyl and the rest of them so they can push what they want on the American people." Pearce said he would phrase the question another way."Do you believe those who have broken into our country should be given legal status to remain here?" Pearce said is how the query should be phrased. "Do you believe that people should be granted amnesty for breaking our laws?"
But pollster Bruce Merrill said he has asked this type of question many times, with different wording. In fact, Merrill said, he even pretested the latest question using the word "amnesty" in half the queries and "path to citizenship" in the other.
In both cases, Merrill said, the results were virtually identical.
"It doesn't matter in general how I've asked it," he said.
"People know what you're talking about," Merrill continued.
Back in February I sang hosannah for the demise of our borders, language and culture.
|6.27.07 @ 4:07PM|#
As the "anchor baby" of parent's who overstayed their tourist Visas and set up shop here and got citizenship via Ronald Reagan's amnesty program, I would like to give a hearty GO FUCK YOURSELF to Rep. Russell Pearce.
|6.27.07 @ 4:10PM|#
I have been pleasantly surprised by how unpopular the xenophobic position is among the American people. When this debate started, I though I was part of a small minority. Turns out I'm in the silent majority - who knew?
|6.27.07 @ 4:13PM|#
As a descendant of English settlers who've been in (what's now) the U.S. since before the Revolutionary War, I would also like to join the chorus of GO FUCK YOURSELF to Rep. Russell Pearce.
|6.27.07 @ 4:15PM|#
I'm married to a legal immigrant, who opposes the Senate
immigration deal.
The real problem with the Senate immigration deal is that it
actually makes it harder for many high-skilled legal immigrants to
come here, even as it lets illegal aliens -- including some with
criminal records -- get amnesty.
That's very dumb, economically. Why keep out people with brains
while admitting low-skill people with criminal records who will
receive more in government services than they will pay in
taxes?
What bothers the general public, though, is that the Senate
immigration bill's border security proposals are a sham -- they
promise to do only what current law already required to be
done.
The public might be willing to allow amnesty for those illegals who
are already here, but not if border security is not improved.
Senator Sessions' web site contains a list of 20 loopholes in the
bill that make it a sham (and an injustice to those immigrants who
go to the trouble of coming here legally).
|6.27.07 @ 4:21PM|#
The Senate's immigration is unpopular, sure.
The Senate's immigration what? Bippy? Don't keep us in suspense,
Dave.
|6.27.07 @ 4:23PM|#
As the descendant of a British debtor who was sent to this country BECAUSE he broke the law I too would like to join the GO FUCK YOURSELF chorus.
dhex|6.27.07 @ 4:25PM|#
as the descendant of irish people fleeing the murderous british, german and dutch protestants looking to make a buck and a whole bunch of cherokee who had no fucking idea just how bad all these pasty shitstains were going to be, i too would like to join the GO FUCK YOURSELF chorus and line dancers.
|6.27.07 @ 4:27PM|#
I heartily endorse MikeP's position, but I entirely renounce thoreau's viewpoint.
|6.27.07 @ 4:30PM|#
Back when I was a city planner, I once had to mediate a dispute
between two neighbors who each wanted to purchase a little scrap of
city-owned land that lay between their properties.
One guy was Portugeuse, and the other was some kind of Asian.
So I'm talking to the Portugeuse guy, and he's got a really thick
accent. After several attempts and repetitions, I was finally able
to make out what he was saying to me; he was complaining about the
immigrants coming in and ruining the neighborhood.
Dey should-a go home!
VM|6.27.07 @ 4:36PM|#
Following dhex's lead, and with respect to Chicago Tom's
beginning, I, too would like to give a GO FUCK YOURSELVES to the
nativists.
And THUNDERCHICKEN shall peck Mr. Weigal (sic) on the taint for
getting that Paul McCartney song in my head.
However, after scrolling down, Mike and the Mechanics quickly
replace that tune
D.A. Ridgely|6.27.07 @ 4:41PM|#
I heartily endorse MikeP's position, but I entirely renounce thoreau's viewpoint.
I disagree entirely with P.L. here.
Actually, I believe that the Senate's emigration would be quite popular.
Domestically, sure, but it would be one more reason for the rest of
the world to hate America.
D.A. Ridgely|6.27.07 @ 4:44PM|#
I have been pleasantly surprised by how unpopular the xenophobic position is among the American people. When this debate started, I though I was part of a small minority. Turns out I'm in the silent majority - who knew?
Well, I don't know about the "silent" part.
dhex|6.27.07 @ 4:45PM|#
"Domestically, sure, but it would be one more reason for the
rest of the world to hate America."
yes but couldn't they emigrate to the ocean, or perhaps a
volcano?
or am i confusing "emigrate" with "human sacrifice" again?
Jack|6.27.07 @ 4:46PM|#
I'd like to extend a GO FUCK YOURSELF to those who think we
should let everyone just illegally wander in all willy nilly.
Today's immigrants should have to go though the same grueling
process my grandparents went through! That's right, they should
show up, wait in a short line to have their name written down, then
legally wander in all willy nilly.
Seriously, fuck Tom Tancredo. If he was in charge during the potato
famine my ancestors would have starved to death while people jerked
off over building an atlantic seawall
|6.27.07 @ 4:49PM|#
D.A. Ridgely,
There's always the Moon. Yes, a satellite populated entirely by
politicians. Perhaps they can legislate themselves some food, air,
water, and power?
|6.27.07 @ 4:51PM|#
So joe,
Since we're the silent majority, we can expect our elected
representatives to represent us right? When do you expect to see
that immigration bill, loaded with increased visas, coming up for
final passage? Do you at least have a loving word for the President
for keeping it alive?
Randolph Carter|6.27.07 @ 4:51PM|#
VM,
Simply having a wonderful christmas time.
hahahahahaha deal with that in your head for the next 8 hours.
thoreau|6.27.07 @ 4:54PM|#
joe, you know that you deserved what R C just wrote. I mean, when you set yourself up as the guy who's sensitive to these sorts of things...
|6.27.07 @ 4:57PM|#
It was xenophobic, anti immigrant rhetoric that led to Arizona Rep JD Hayworth losing his House seat in the last election. Pearce is considered a fringe nutcase to most Arizona residents and this has long been his pet issue. Staking your or your party's political future on an anti immigrant policy is incredibly stupid in a state/country with a growing latino population. This may be the issue that swings once solid red states like Arizona over to the blue side, and that is the reality that McCain and Kyl are dealing with.
VM|6.27.07 @ 4:59PM|#
YOU BASTARD!!!!!!!!!
*desperately tries to think of something else
what does it mean to be a
uni uni unitarian
a uni uni unitarian
a uni uni unitarian
what does it tkae to be a
uni uni unitarian...
NOOOO SOMETHING STRONGER
this liberal light of mine
I'm gonna let it shine!
this liberal light of mine
I'm gonna let it shine!
this liberal light of mine
I'm gonna let it shine!
let it shine! let it shine! let it shine!
ARGHHHHHH!
GILMORE|6.27.07 @ 5:01PM|#
I agree with people who concur with individuals who happen to share a similar position as MikeP
highnumber|6.27.07 @ 5:06PM|#
Let it shine
let it shine
let it shine...
Ha ha! I can put on either the Staple singers or Mavis Staples and
enjoy that song!
GILMORE|6.27.07 @ 5:07PM|#
I also believe I will offically join the GO FUCK YOURSELF
party
I'm surprised no one points out that there are 1000s of soldiers
currently serving in the US Military who are the children of
illegal immigrants. They are increasingly the steadiest source of
recruits. People should be ashamed of the way they talk about
'lawbreakers' as though the crime were some natural law, and not
some bureaucratic, mismanaged myth of control.
|6.27.07 @ 5:11PM|#
Good point Gilmore. I'm also shocked that people who broke the law by speeding are allowed to keep driving - sometimes to even keep their record clean!
|6.27.07 @ 5:18PM|#
I also believe I will offically join the GO FUCK YOURSELF
party
Saaaaaaaay We might just be onto something here. The GFY Party may
just be the third party that Americans have been yearning for, and
can breakthrough the third party fringe ceiling to become instantly
viable. I can see it now...
[Man in voting booth]
Let's see...
President of the United states, hmmm. Republican? Democrat? Go Fuck
Yourself! Yeah that's it.
Now Governor...
Republican?...
[Voice Over]
Somebody's got to win. Make your vote count. Make your voice heard.
Go Fuck Yourself in 12
|6.27.07 @ 5:19PM|#
"Do you believe those who have broken into our country
should be given legal status to remain here?" Pearce said is how
the query should be phrased. "Do you believe that people should be
granted amnesty for breaking our laws?"
I'd like to see the question phrased more like, "Do you believe the
government should require discriminatory treatment against people
based entirely on a condition of their birth?"
I the answer is yes, then the poll could offer the respondent a
checklist of conditions of birth to determine for which ones
discrimination should be prohibited, permitted, or mandated.
Randolph Carter|6.27.07 @ 5:26PM|#
I GET KNOCKED DOWN
BUT I GET UP AGAIN
YOU'RE NEVER GONNA
KEEP ME DOWN
lolz all over the place
|6.27.07 @ 5:29PM|#
The GFY Party is a joke. Unless the Fairness Doctrine is revived. Then it will happen. Oh, yes. It will.
highnumber|6.27.07 @ 5:29PM|#
Actually, the post title put De La Soul in my head:
Sweat, one sweat, two sweat, three
Motions, what motions? what could it be?
She, she (watchin' you) who, me?
Hon, velveeta got your cut
(ain't no lockin' up now)
Give the symmetrics to your bottom
(ain't no lockin' up)
More fun with the bill here|6.27.07 @ 5:36PM|#
I realize this is too much to ask, but if Weigel had a brain he
would have realized a few major problems with the question.
For instance, "for a number of years" is not what the SenateBill
does: it allows anyone who's been here before January, and just
today someone was arrested who was planning to sell fake docs
showing that for new arrivals.
And, they don't have to "learn English", they only have to sign
up.
Does anyone think Weigel is anything other than just a shill?
Bonus: the current bill still makes provisions for GangMembers to
be legalized, as described at the link.
|6.27.07 @ 5:42PM|#
highnumber,
Someone's knocking on the door. In fact, someone's ringing the
bell. Do me a favor and open the door, or I'll sing "Coming Up. .
.Like a Flower". Or, perhaps, "Say, Say, Say".
highnumber|6.27.07 @ 5:45PM|#
Also made me think of Descendents:
My world is my mind
I'm locking myself inside
People they can't get in
I have no use for them
Not in my world!
So stop knock knock knockin!
Stop knock knock knockin'!
Stop knockin'!
Stop it!
My favorite line from that song:
Went to the No Nukes rally
The Don Quixotes made me feel silly
VM's favorite (I don't know why):
Went to the toilet and sat down
There was no one else around
|6.27.07 @ 5:56PM|#
Dey should-a go home!
joe,
One of the best arguments I have ever had the pleasure to witness
was between a large Haitian woman and a Cuban guy in a Miami BBQ
joint.
CG: Go back to your island!
LHW: No! You go back to YOUR island!
CG: No! You go back to YOUR island!
LHW: No! you go back to YOUR island!
And round and round for a good five minutes until the owner of
indeterminate national origin kicked them out.
God I love Miami.
|6.27.07 @ 6:01PM|#
As a proponent of big government I would like to give three cheers to the Senators and President Bush for trying to pass this bill which will vastly increase federal spending.
|6.27.07 @ 6:02PM|#
What, they all look alike, joe?
To most anglos, yes. You could just as easily say some kind of
European if you're unaware of the nationality. As surprised as I am
to be defending joe - There's nothing to get offended about here,
move along folks.
MexicanGovernment|6.27.07 @ 6:12PM|#
TLB, you will not foil us this time. Behold! Our new
SecretPlan!
|6.27.07 @ 6:36PM|#
As surprised as I am to be defending joe - There's nothing
to get offended about here, move along folks.
Of course there is -- If you really, REALLY need to get offended by
something.
What's more offensive, referring to someone whose ethnicity you are
unsure of as "Asian" (assuming they are from a nation in asia) --
or taking a stab and being completety wrong?
Personally, I like to go with "Oriental" :)
TLB|6.27.07 @ 7:28PM|#
Thanks for the link to millerchill.com. Now, for the
adults:
Miller sponsored a meeting to plan an ImmigrationMarch. One of the
chief organizers of that meeting is an official with Mexico's
PRDParty.
Once again: you can learn something here at Reason, but you won't
learn it from the paid hacks.
libertreee|6.27.07 @ 7:55PM|#
'd like to extend a GO FUCK YOURSELF to those who think we
should let everyone just illegally wander in all willy nilly.
Today's immigrants should have to go though the same grueling
process my grandparents went through! That's right, they should
show up, wait in a short line to have their name written down, then
legally wander in all willy nilly.-Jack
My parents both came from Ireland cir 1930. My mom says they had to
visit the US Embassy in Ireland and show documentation they were
educated somewhat and literate. Then they had a physical, repeated
every time the boat stopped to take on more immigrants. They began
to wonder if there were any sick people in America.
That was about it. No quotas on Irish like on the Jews, I think.
More bureaucracy than the nineteenth century, but no visas or all
the xenophobic crap today.
A big "Fuck You" the Nativists by me, as well.
|6.27.07 @ 8:37PM|#
1. Far have I travelled, and much have
I seen
Dark distant mountains, and valleys
of green
Vast painted deserts, the sun sets on
fire
They carry me home to my Mull of
Kintyre . . .
2. There, now that we've exorcised Evil Paul with Good Paul, as the
descendant of a long list of people England was really happy to see
the back of, including a Puritan in 1640; a few from the '45, a
participant in the Croppie Rebellion, and a number of plain old
criminals and at least one (probably, not confirmed) transported
debtor, and not a bloody one of 'em since 1790, allow me to add GO
FUCK YOURSELF to the Tancredo fans. Jeez, if my ancestors had there
way, most of those guys wouldn't be here, so they can bloody well
learn like we did.
solitarylunatic|6.27.07 @ 9:07PM|#
"Miller sponsored a meeting to plan an ImmigrationMarch. One of
the chief organizers of that meeting is an official with Mexico's
PRDParty."
Oh, My, God. Now An all-American company is sponsoring the greaser
takeover.
When will it end????
Where can I hide from the beaner menace.
They'll make it so SALSA is the #ONE condiment in America
before we know it.
|6.27.07 @ 9:16PM|#
Warren,
It's tough to work my way up to "loving" over this p.o.s. bill, but
I've complimented Bush before for making the effort.
I have no idea when or if this bill is going to get to the
floor.
|6.27.07 @ 9:17PM|#
Also Warren,
Since we're the silent majority, we can expect our elected
representatives to represent us right?
It doesn't always work that way. There is a loud minority that does
a fairly convincing impression of a majority.
|6.27.07 @ 9:20PM|#
RC, thoreau,
Gimme a break - I don't recall quizzing the gentleman on whether he
was Thai or Cambodian.
Easy on the hamstring there, RC. You're reaching waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy
too hard. The only thing an idiotic cheap shot like that
accomplishes is to draw attention to your inability to tell what
is, and what is not, a racial slur.
|6.27.07 @ 9:31PM|#
I agree with jf - RC's comment is Laugh Out Loud funny.
He can't tell the difference between observing that you can't
identify a person's national orgin by looking at him vs. stating
that all members of a race look alike...
which is funny enough...
But then he trumpets his confusion as if it reflected poorly on
me.
That is funny.
MexicanGovernment|6.27.07 @ 9:40PM|#
Not only that, SolitaryLunatic, but Miller is owned by a SouthAfricanCompany, and we all know SouthAfrica is UnAmerican and therefore very easy for us ToControl. Not only that--but it also owns PhillipMorris. Now even your MarlboroReds are owned by FelipeCalderon! MUAHAHAHA
Lord Jubjub|6.27.07 @ 9:54PM|#
Allow me my GFY (though my quite religious parents would be
horrified to hear me use that middle word).
My ancestors were anabaptists and considered the State a necessary
Evil at best and State Religion a tool of the Devil. That got them
hounded throughout Europe. Only in America have they been able to
settle down on their farms and live in peace.
|6.27.07 @ 11:01PM|#
2,000 miles of concertina wire can't cost that much, probably less than the porky bribes in the senate bill right now.
Roving Editor|6.27.07 @ 11:36PM|#
2,000 miles of concertina wire can't cost
won't do that much...
Fixed.
|6.28.07 @ 4:27AM|#
Staking your or your party's political future on an anti
immigrant policy is incredibly stupid in a state/country with a
growing latino population.
And why is it that the latino population is growing? Oh I forget
but it seems like I heard something about that once......can
anybody give me fucking clue as to why the latino segment is
growing so fast?
Blue states are so much more libertarian. Latinos are deeply
libertarian too. Everybody knows that.
Yeah let's just get rid of borders, there's no need for them. Tell
the whole US of A: GFY!
There, it's done and over with now. Nothing left to debate, we've
swept it all away.
|6.28.07 @ 8:23AM|#
"2,000 miles of concertina wire can't cost won't do that
much..."
It'll work just fine if if there are a few infantry divisions
patrolling it. Bring the troops home - let Korea and Germany patrol
their own borders.
|6.28.07 @ 9:14AM|#
And why is it that the latino population is growing?
Because Latinos are making babies? At least that's how my niece and
nephew came to be part of the growing population. And good luck
kicking them out. They were born in the U.S.A.
highnumber|6.28.07 @ 9:23AM|#
Militarized borders?
Sweet!
I got nothing. That's just so, so not the kind of country I want to
live in.
|6.28.07 @ 9:31AM|#
"That's just so, so not the kind of country I want to live
in."
Well it won't be like East Germany - nobody will stop you from
leaving.
|6.28.07 @ 9:39AM|#
America's public resources are woefully underutilized.
We need to import billions more poor people to better utilize our
water resources, energy resources, and public schools, public
roads, public parks, and voting booths.
Eventually all nations and borders can be eliminated. We can have a
one-world global government of super-intelligent elites decide what
is best for everyone. Paradise it will be.
robc|6.28.07 @ 9:41AM|#
That's just so, so not the kind of country I want to live
in.
I have no problem with militarized borders. Hell, thats the primary
purpose of the military, to keep foreign invaders out.
Combine that with plenty of border check-in centers where simple
disease/background checks can be done before allowing anyone in who
wants in (who isnt a criminal or contagious) and we have a pretty
good immigration policy:
1. Virtually anyone who wants in legally gets in.
2. Illegal aliens get shot on sight
Im a big fence, wide gate fan.
dhex|6.28.07 @ 9:44AM|#
"Well it won't be like East Germany - nobody will stop you from
leaving."
that's what they always say.
somehow it always turns into a ham sandwich on rye with a side
order of lies.
funny, that.
LarryA|6.28.07 @ 12:02PM|#
"Do you believe that people should be granted amnesty for
breaking our laws?"
Amnesty: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon
is granted to a large group of individuals. If they haven't broken
the law they don't need amnesty. Moron.
"Do you believe those who have broken into our country should
be given legal status to remain here?"
No. I think the law should be changed to let them in legally.
Why keep out people with brains while admitting low-skill
people with criminal records who will receive more in government
services than they will pay in taxes?
But how about "low-skill" people who will pick fruit, harvest
Christmas trees, nanny kids, landscape, and do other jobs none of
us want? Or the Mexican stone masons and bricklayers that are
highly skilled in something that just doesn't require a
degree.
|6.28.07 @ 12:35PM|#
"pick fruit, harvest Christmas trees ... landscape, and do other
jobs none of us want"
All jobs that could/should be done by robots. And would be except
for the cheap labor cost of the illegal immigrants.
|6.28.07 @ 1:15PM|#
Landscaping robots?
NASA is happy that it takes only a day to get a robot to go over a
small rock without tipping over, and you are talking about
landscaping robots?
|6.29.07 @ 9:55AM|#
NASA is full of idiots.
***
Vision Robotics, a San Diego company, is working on a pair of
robots that would trundle through orchards plucking oranges, apples
or other fruit from the trees. In a few years, troops of these
machines could perform the tedious and labor-intensive task of
fruit picking that currently employs thousands of migrant workers
each season.
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/06/robo_picker
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