Liveblogging the GOP Debate - Part II - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

Liveblogging the GOP Debate - Part II

David Weigel | May 3, 2007

8:40 - Romney, Huckabee and Brownback have a back-and-forth about whether faith guides their decisionmaking. Brownback wins with this soundbite: "As my colleague Senator Lieberman - a Jew! - says..."

8:42 - If Duncan Hunter is president, we'll have a real border fence - not a "little, scraggly fence."

8:43 - Gilmore slips into third-person self-love faster than Bob Dole used to.

8:44 - Tancredo: "Karl Rove would certainly never be in the White House I inhabited." The audience might not get the reason for that. Hint: Mexicans.

8:45 - Thompson, on his record as governor: "I vetoed turteen hunnerd tings!"

8:46 - Brownback blames congressional corruption, in a roundabout way, on "things like Don Imus said on the radio being sold to teenagers!"

8:48 - McCain gets angry at "the special interests" who "we gave hi-definition TV to!" In related news, John McCain has just nuked Best Buy.

8:50 - To punish McCain for going over time on his last answer, McCain is... asked another softball question.

8:52 - Romney finally, finally attacks McCain-Feingold in the course of explaining why the president must be pro-life. He has to be able to campaign for bans on abortion procedures, unless he can't do so "because of the McCain-Feingold law." Which, you know, restricts third-party groups and not presidents.

8:53 - Matthews invokes Logan's Run to Rudy: "We'll have to kill you now because it's a red light."

8:55 - Quick: Someone explain why Duncan Hunter deserves twice as much debating time as Ron Paul. The winner gets a copy of Human Action.

8:59 - Duncan Hunter patronizes Nancy Reagan: "I'd like to show her the alternatives to embryonic stem cell research." What a charmer.

9:00 - Matthews specifically says that everyone needs to give a yes or no answer on stem cell research. Remarkably, he lets McCain wax poetically about when he came home from Vietnam and Nancy Reagan was so kind to him and so on and so forth. To Matthews' credit, he also lets Paul drone on a little bit.

9:02 - When Romney gets a question about deep policy wonkery, he sounds as comfortable as a retiree easing into a lawn chair and sucking on a pipe.

9:04 - Huckabee wants to get rid of the I.R.S. and boosts Neal Boortz's Fair Tax. Tancredo wants to do that while repealing the 16th Amendment, and somewhere in Nevada Aaron Russo kicks his TV.

9:06 - Paul has already promised to get rid of the I.R.S. so he uses the tax question to rail against inflation. He gets this close to talking about the gold standard, but refers instead to "sound money."

9:08 - McCain puzzles over whether anyone would make a better cabinet secretary than Joe Lieberman.

9:11 - Romney "The best work that goes on in America goes on between the four walls of homes." Also, we need to "get more marriages with more babies." I think Kerry Howley's found her candidate.

9:12 - Paul says he trusts "some of" the mainstream media. However: "I trust the internet a lot more, and I trust freedom of expression, and that's why I've never voted to regulate the internet."

9:13 - Sam Brownback: "I think personal beliefs of everybody shape everybody." As Brownback himself might say: Jesus Christ.

9:14 - Huckabee thinks the most important thing a president can do is... stop outsourcing. And if Republicans can't stop it, they "don't deserve to win in 2008." If you zoom in to the podium, you can see him giving Pat Toomey the finger.

9:17 - Rudy: A national ID card is "critical to maintaining national security." Not a surprising stance. Romney shamelessly, deliciously piggybacks on Giuliani's subtle 9/11 reference by noting that he had to plan the post-9/11 Olympics in Salt Lake City.

9:19 - Matthews asks of the national ID card: "Is someone against this on libertarian grounds?" And he calls on... Sam Brownback. If there was any doubt, Ron Paul is the creepy kid who the teacher refuses to call on.

9:20 - Paul recovers a little, after he's called on for the ID card issue, to say it's antithetical to what government stands for. Tancredo's libertarian roots show and he opposes it, too. When Matthews follows up with Romney and Giuliani, they clarify that they want an ID card for immigrants, not citizens. It's by far the most heated and confused round of the debate.

9:22 - Paul uses the inevitable "would you pardon Scooter Libby?" question to blast the Iraq War. Tancredo uses it to say he'd first pardon the border guards who are in jail for shooting at a drug dealer. TheLoneWackoBlog uses it to say "Dave Weigel blows!"

9:25 - There's a round about Matthews' pet peeve - whether Bill Clinton should return to the White House as First Lady. Ron Paul: "I am noted for sticking to principle and not flip-flopping. I voted to impeach him! And..." and his joke is cut off by the surprising sound of camaraderie and laughter. Seriously, though - Duncan Hunter voted to impeach Clinton, and McCain and Brownback voted to remove him from office. Why didn't they mention that?

9:30 - In the long-expected "What did Bush fuck up, and how would you un-fuck it?" round, Giuliani praises Bush's leadership on "September 11, 2001" and Ron Paul says he would never abuse Habeas Corpus.

9:33 - Matthews' devious "ignore Ron Paul" plan backfires when Paul gets the last word in the debate. And yet afterwards, no one wants to talk to him - Romney dives offstage to mug with Nancy Reagan, and Paul is left huddling with Tancredo. It looks not unlike the Math Olympics team sitting at the back of homeroom as the popular kids talk about the awesome kegger at Todd's house this weekend.

IN CONCLUSION: All of my predictions fell flat, except, arguably for the Gilmore one. (You could make a strong case that Tommy Thompson lost.) The Hillary lightning round made my Obama prediction look especially bad, although my point in making that prediction was that the GOP has lost it mojo for Hillary-bashing. I still think that's true, given the candidates' answers.

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|5.3.07 @ 8:42PM|#

What is a ka and why would a corpse need to exhult it?

TLB|5.3.07 @ 8:43PM|#

ChrisMatthews is truly a lightweight. Instead of asking specific questions, he and his friends are asking crap, general questions.

Hayekian Dreamer|5.3.07 @ 8:46PM|#

Wow, they let Giuliani and McCain earlier FILIBUSTER past "time" but they make SURE to cut Dr. Paul off very quickly. Its absolutely just... horrible. The media already decided who the candidates are going to be, they're just trying to convince the rest of us who it's going to be.

|5.3.07 @ 8:47PM|#

Republicans are corrupt because of rap lyrics and single mothers.

|5.3.07 @ 8:48PM|#

Ka is what you meet when you enter the path at the end of the clearing.

Boy did those last couple of books suck.

So now I'm a little perplexed, Doc Paul - do you not support amendments in general, or just those that are used to change things? Sigh.

|5.3.07 @ 8:49PM|#

This is devolving into a clusterfuck. Mathews might as well just point at a canident and let them free-associate for 30+ seconds.

phocion|5.3.07 @ 8:52PM|#

Clearly there's nothing remotely approaching equal time in this debate.

Hayekian Dreamer|5.3.07 @ 8:53PM|#

Yep, its been 15 minutes since Dr. Paul got a chance to speak. Romney's spoken twice since then, McCain it SEEMS like 3 times.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 8:54PM|#

Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! You mean to tell me that thr Rs are not afraid of Peace Corps boy Mattews but the Ds crapped all over themselves about Brit Hume?

Seems the die is cast.

|5.3.07 @ 8:55PM|#

Q: "Senator McCain, can you tell us how and why you're so awesome?"

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 8:57PM|#

Paul on chrisis decision making: tap dances around medicine and sounds like Dennis Kucinich on the war in Iraq. Maybe he is channeling David Weigel.

|5.3.07 @ 8:58PM|#

I'm switching to Ugly Betty now, why is Wilhelmina bruised and bandaged?

phocion|5.3.07 @ 8:59PM|#

Paul should have focused on making decisions in medicine instead of attempting to relate the hacky job interview question to anything political.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:01PM|#

Romney goes to stem cell research better than he did about hunting, or Radley on tanks and full auto revolvers.

McCin must be irish for ludifisk.

Paul had a good answer there: No

The "french for spaghetti bender boy" babbled.

|5.3.07 @ 9:02PM|#

Now McCain answers a stem cell research question by bringing up the fact that he was a Vietnam POW. Smooooth.

TLB|5.3.07 @ 9:03PM|#

Now that I see the Rove comment, I should also point out that Weigel is a lightweight as well.

|5.3.07 @ 9:06PM|#

Geez, Ron Paul only gets out of his hermetically sealed vault once every four years for election time, and they're not letting him talk much. I feel for him.

|5.3.07 @ 9:07PM|#

Gold reserve! Everybody drink!

|5.3.07 @ 9:08PM|#

Is Thompson from Wisconsin by any chance? He sure mentions the 30th state a lot...

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:08PM|#

Flat tax. Great keyword!

Car tax in VA is stil here.

"Fair tax" is a creepy keyword sounding thing.

Eliminate manufacturing taxes. Nice.

That other thompson: kill AMT == nice.

McCain is messed up. Line item veto requires a Constitutional Amendment. Stay away from the ludifisk.

Paul is from Pluto, just like Ralph Nader, Al Gore (sort of) and Dorathy from the Wizard of Oz.

Guiliani is french for spaghetti bender.

Nice last guy.

|5.3.07 @ 9:10PM|#

Upwards of 7% spoilt ballots in scottish elections, radio scotland commentators referencing pregnant chads and florida -- tories make gains in birmingham.

|5.3.07 @ 9:11PM|#

Holy crap. Who raised their hands to show they didn't believe in evolution?

In Matthews' defense, they may be just trying to make sure that the cash-strapped lower tier candidates don't try to hog the free air time an event like this provides.

On the other hand, that doesn't justify them allowing the frontrunners to do so.

I was hoping for someone could explain why they are stupid enough to believe in evolution instead of allowing McCain to sell out his viewpoint

cls|5.3.07 @ 9:11PM|#

Whatever you think of Paul's combination of libertarians with sone loony Right-wing material the man is incapable of debating. Hell, even in one to one interviews he is awful. He doesn't take control of the discussion, he wanders all over the place with answers, he takes forever to get to the point, and by the time he does he's put everyone to sleep. The more time he has to speak the lower his vote totals. He has to be one of the worst campaigners out there.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:11PM|#

Ouch! McCain believes the same as me on evolution. Perhaps I should rethingk my views, or he might be right by accident.

Hayekian Dreamer|5.3.07 @ 9:14PM|#

cls - Perhaps if Dr. Paul was given half the time McCain was to "clarify" his comments, and was given follow ups to articulate his views as Romney and Giuliani have been his perspectives would be better gotten across to you. I'd say he's had one question where he looked terrible and several where he's done very well. But then, we've had a much smaller sample of him compared to the others.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:15PM|#

Guiliani is french for spaghetti bender.

|5.3.07 @ 9:15PM|#

"I think the personal beliefs of everybody shape everybody."
-Sam Brownback, when asked how his religious beliefs will shape his foreign policy. I think he's got his bases covered there.

Was Rudy the mayor of NYC by any chance? He strikes me as being an optimist. Don't know why I think that...

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:17PM|#

Huckabee: the answer to corruption charges somehow equals an increase in job protectionism.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:18PM|#

french spaghetti bender actually has a decent illigeal immigrant (hey Nick, note the first I word there) answer

|5.3.07 @ 9:18PM|#

ID card? I thought Republicans where against that. Fuck them. FUCK THEM

|5.3.07 @ 9:20PM|#

Sen. McCain: FYI, there is no such thing as a tamper-proof ID card.
Dr. Paul: Amen brother on ID cards.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:20PM|#

ILLIGAL immigration

Brownback is all fence

McCain is for papers

Paul wants anybody in the world to roam free across America like locusts

|5.3.07 @ 9:21PM|#

Yes, if Ron Paul becomes president the skies will be so dense with illegal immigrants that they will block out the sun. ;-)

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:23PM|#

Yes, if Ron Paul becomes president the skies will be so dense with illegal immigrants that they will block out the sun. ;-)

Perhaps they will keep away the killer bees.

|5.3.07 @ 9:23PM|#

Paul actually has a little bit of control of the debate with the ID card thing, everyone backtracked after his rant. It was one of the few things that he's gotten right tonight.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:24PM|#

Paul has to make the incorrect Scooter Libby issue yet another Leftist anti-war cross.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:25PM|#

When will Guiliani say "sir, I own this microphone"?

|5.3.07 @ 9:26PM|#

they want an ID card for immigrants, not citizens.

So, when they raid chicken plants looking for illegals, how are they going to tell the difference between Mexican-looking US citizens without IDs and Mexican illegal immigrants without IDs?

RE: Terry Shivo, I would loved to hear someone start off their bit with "Well, I like what South Park had to say about it"

The Clinton back into the White House question turned into a Hillary gang-bang.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:28PM|#

So, when they raid chicken plants looking for illegals, how are they going to tell the difference between Mexican-looking US citizens without IDs and Mexican illegal immigrants without IDs?

Or illegal Eastern Europeans for that matter.

|5.3.07 @ 9:28PM|#

Hillary gang-bang
Yikes!

Guy, the Republicans under Bush have become the party of Brainless Machismo. The frontrunners have to show that they're too tough to let some pencilneck reporter make them stop talking before they're ready.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:29PM|#

crimethink, that sounded so low forehead.

|5.3.07 @ 9:30PM|#

TheLoneWackoBlog uses it to say "Dave Weigel blows!"

What, no link?!

|5.3.07 @ 9:33PM|#

Wow. So Dr. Paul ends the whole thing with a defense of habeas corpus. Not bad...

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:33PM|#

Now, time for Chris Mattews to do an hour or so of fairbanksing about the debate.

phocion|5.3.07 @ 9:34PM|#

Weigel was right. Gilmore lost.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:36PM|#

They are all so lucky that National Prayer Day worked and Fred did not show up to destroy them.

TLB|5.3.07 @ 9:37PM|#

crimethink says: So, when they raid chicken plants looking for illegals, how are they going to tell the difference between Mexican-looking US citizens without IDs and Mexican illegal immigrants without IDs?

Same thing I said. In fact, if CM had a brain he would have asked about that, and by so doing he would have revealed RG et al for the lightweights they are. Instead, he did not. MSNBCPolitico should hang their heads in shame after holding such a disgrace.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:38PM|#

Weigel was right. Gilmore lost.

Along with many others.

I must say, a friend of mine said spaghetti bender would look very good and his little gun grabbing self did.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 9:41PM|#

if CM had a brain he would have asked about that,

I thought he was with Ron Paul wanting the Airforce to air drop illegals into Iowa? The only way they could have gotten a more partisan 'moderator' would be to dig up LBJ.

|5.3.07 @ 9:46PM|#

What on earth was Brownback thinking with that "three state" idea? That's a TERRIBLE idea. I say he loses way more than Gilmore, although they both came out looking like idiots in my opinion.

|5.3.07 @ 9:48PM|#

It looks not unlike the Math Olympics team sitting at the back of homeroom as the popular kids talk about the awesome kegger at Todd's house this weekend.

So, Paul and Tancredo are going to be swimming in money in a few years while Giuliani and Romney struggle to keep their jobs stocking shelves at Wal-Mart?

|5.3.07 @ 9:54PM|#

FWIW (not much), Kos has Paul in second in the "Who Won?" poll. He has 17% to "Zombie Reagan's" 41%...

|5.3.07 @ 9:55PM|#

Yes, if Ron Paul becomes president the skies will be so dense with illegal immigrants that they will block out the sun. ;-)

Then the fruit they pick, we shall eat in the shade!

|5.3.07 @ 9:57PM|#

Stevos,

I was thinking of the biblical plague, but that works also.

|5.3.07 @ 10:00PM|#

The Hillary lightning round made my Obama prediction look especially bad, although my point in making that prediction was that the GOP has lost it mojo for Hillary-bashing. I still think that's true, given the candidates' answers.

That's a great Mitt Romney impression, Dave. ;-)

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 10:01PM|#

Then the fruit they pick, we shall eat in the shade!

Most excellent.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 10:03PM|#

|5.3.07 @ 10:04PM|#

What is a ka and why would a corpse need to exhult it?

This reminds me of a friend of mine who was describing the movie The Mummy to me when it came out. He wanted to sound sophisticated so instead of just saying the mummy killed someone, he would say that the mummy "sucked his ka."

Needless to say, my original-sin-tainted mind got the wrong impression.

TLB|5.3.07 @ 10:07PM|#

Comments on the debate at the link.

If you want to prevent crap like this "debate" in the future, please sign this: petitiononline.com/debateit

kurt|5.3.07 @ 10:09PM|#

Was it just me, or did John McCain have a perfect camera spot tonight? I really got scared of him at times (when he talked about hell and such).

The first answers of Ron Paul were concise and to the point, but he indeed fell a bit when asked about his past life/death decisions (but I found that question to be somewhat unfair).

Losing candidate tonight: that guy from Wisconsin.

|5.3.07 @ 10:09PM|#

Guy,

There are no knee-jerk reactions in academia. Progressives aren't beholden to dogma like conservatives are. They carefully consider all the complex variables and degrees of nuance involved in an issue, and only then take whatever position is most advantageous to the Democrats.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 10:13PM|#

There are no knee-jerk reactions in academia. Progressives aren't beholden to dogma like conservatives are. They carefully consider all the complex variables and degrees of nuance involved in an issue, and only then take whatever position is most advantageous to the Democrats.

Ah, I stand corrected. My memory has faded from the ~~indoctrination~~ discussions at the Student Union.

|5.3.07 @ 10:15PM|#

BTW, Dr. Paul comes off well in the MSNBC poll: 2nd in "Who stood out from the pack?", 3rd in "Who showed the most leadership qualities?", 2nd in
"Who was the most convincing candidate?", and 2nd in "Who had the best one-liner?". Ruby, McCain, and Romney finished in the top 3 of "Who had the most rehearsed answers?" and "Who avoided the questions?". Of course, they have the most to lose...

|5.3.07 @ 10:16PM|#

err, that's "Rudy", not "Ruby"

|5.3.07 @ 10:20PM|#

I've never been so proud of being a non-voter...

Referring to the poll, how could 5% think that Ron Paul came off as the most rehearsed? Nothing says rehearsed like rambling answers which change direction in midstream, I guess.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 10:22PM|#

crimethink,

That 5% are probably the 2.5 viewers they have when there is not a debate on.

ktc2|5.3.07 @ 10:23PM|#

zevatron | May 3, 2007, 9:11pm | #

Holy crap. Who raised their hands to show they didn't believe in evolution?

------

It's the R debate. It's where they all thump their chest look macho about war and compete to see who can convince the stupidest amongst religious voters that they are equally stupid.

To admit they understand evolution is real would be claiming to be an atheist to those whack jobs.

Guy Montag|5.3.07 @ 10:23PM|#

BTW, Throwdown with Bobby Flay is worse than a Chris Mattews moderated debate.

|5.3.07 @ 10:30PM|#

I didn't watch, so I have to know, did anyone ask about Romney's underwear?

phocion|5.3.07 @ 10:33PM|#

how could 5% think that Ron Paul came off as the most rehearsed?

Unlike the actual primary, anti-war Democrats can vote in the MSNBC poll too. Paul's positive numbers in online polls are similar to Bill Richardson's commanding performance among Democrats in the Pajamas Media poll.

phocion|5.3.07 @ 10:35PM|#

To admit they understand evolution is real would be claiming to be an atheist to those whack jobs.

Only three of the candidates opposed evolution from the hands that I saw. Romney being the only major candidate.

Equality 7-2321|5.3.07 @ 10:42PM|#

To be fair, they said they didn't believe in evolution. Not that they opposed it, whatever that means.

|5.3.07 @ 11:12PM|#

Currently Paul is winning the "best one liner" poll on MSNBC.

It might have had something to do with abolishing the IRS, ;)

|5.3.07 @ 11:17PM|#

I thought the "He Will Die" line was pretty good as far as one liners went.

my hump|5.3.07 @ 11:49PM|#

9:13 - Sam Brownback: "I think personal beliefs of everybody shape everybody." As Brownback himself might say: Jesus Christ.

My wife doesn't believe this is real. This has to be a joke. Obama'08. Jesus Christ indeed.

|5.4.07 @ 12:07AM|#

From the Foxnews.com story on the debate -

"There was no dissent about the importance of the U.S. military mission in Iraq."

|5.4.07 @ 12:09AM|#

surf,

I'm still spinning from that one. Fox News just out and out lies without even blinking.

*shakes head*

|5.4.07 @ 12:19AM|#

9:10 - The candidates are asked if they believe in evolution - Tancredo and a few others raise their hands to say they don't. McCain: "I believe in evolution, but I also believe that when I hike the Grand Canyon and see a sunset, the hand of God is there."

Only Huckabee and Brownback in addition to Tancredo raised their hands. Their hands were only up for a second, I had to freeze the picture.

Thank goodness, only three out of ten.

I still love Tancredo, regardless.

Romeny looked presidential, McCain looked angry. I warmed to the latter though, he seems passionate about cutting spending

|5.4.07 @ 12:39AM|#

Romney is proving that style is winning over substance.

|5.4.07 @ 1:22AM|#

Romney is Sam Malone.

"8:55 - Quick: Someone explain why Duncan Hunter deserves twice as much debating time as Ron Paul. The winner gets a copy of Human Action."

Easy: He's against the war. People who oppose the war don't get airtime.

John|5.4.07 @ 2:40AM|#

Duncan Hunter was Chairman of Armed Services, seemingly making seem more Commander-in-chiefish than Paul.

|5.4.07 @ 2:44AM|#

I think you may have misheard Romney on that quotation about marriage. I think he said he wanted "more marriages *before* babies."

Matt|5.4.07 @ 2:52AM|#

I'm surprised McCain didn't say he was going to veto a bill with pork-barrel spending in it and then nuke whoever sponsored it.

|5.4.07 @ 5:37AM|#

Props to Weigel for a pair of amusing and informative posts.

|5.4.07 @ 5:51AM|#

Thanks for the very enjoyable liveblogging, David. Great summary for those of us who didn't see it. Funny too.

Guy Montag|5.4.07 @ 6:20AM|#

Easy: He's against the war. People who oppose the war don't get airtime.

On MSNBC with Chris Mattews? What are you on? Try a new theory, like no Republican who can appeal to a single Democrat needs to be seen on that network or something.

Guy Montag|5.4.07 @ 6:56AM|#

surf | May 4, 2007, 12:07am | #

From the Foxnews.com story on the debate -

"There was no dissent about the importance of the U.S. military mission in Iraq."
Lost_In_Translation | May 4, 2007, 12:09am | #

surf,

I'm still spinning from that one. Fox News just out and out lies without even blinking.

*shakes head*

Yea, just like tose bastards at the Washington Post!

GOP Field United On War, Divided On Social Issues

Those darn fairbanksers have allied with the Republicans!

Guy Montag|5.4.07 @ 7:11AM|#

On drudge right now Paul has 18%.

Maybe it is his war stance about winning it. Did I miss some previous statement of his about cutting and running to get the support of the reason editorial staff?

|5.4.07 @ 7:32AM|#

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Gov. Thompson, onetime head of Health and Human Services thought it was ok to fire someone for being gay and didn't have a clue how many wounded have come home from Iraq?

cls|5.4.07 @ 7:47AM|#

The NSNBC "poll" does not mater when it comes to perceiving how the publifc thinks of Ron Paul. It is not a scientific poll at all but one of these where anyone can fill it out. These tend to be dominated by fervent activists more than numbers and Ron Paul's people are somewhat fanatical and organize to fill in these bogus polls claiming they represent the public. When proper polls are done Paul's support is always near the bottom of the pack.

Guy Montag|5.4.07 @ 7:51AM|#

These tend to be dominated by fervent activists more than numbers and Ron Paul's people are somewhat fanatical and organize to fill in these bogus polls claiming they represent the public. When proper polls are done Paul's support is always near the bottom of the pack.

Oh please! They are no more fanatical than these guys.

|5.4.07 @ 9:16AM|#

I haven't bothered to read most of the comments above. However, is it just me, or did I pretty much hear Romney say that the American people don't need to be making decisions regarding the war, but rather, need a strong leader to make those decision for them? Really? It's none of the public's business? Public opinion should have no say whatsoever in how a war is to be conducted? Why not just give up the pretenses of a democracy?

Maybe it's just me, but it sounded as if he was saying that the public is too dumb to know what's good for them, and they need someone to lead them around and show them the way.

|5.4.07 @ 9:36AM|#

I see somebody else caught that as well, on part 1 of the liveblogging.

LarryA|5.4.07 @ 9:42AM|#

8:56 - Paul gets the first question that really trips him up, on whether he's ever had to made a life-or-death decision. He blathers about being a doctor for a bit before coming up an answer about the war... which is cut off by an obviously bored Matthews.

Paul's correct answer, "I showed up, didn't I?"

9:08 - McCain puzzles over whether anyone would make a better cabinet secretary than Joe Lieberman.

Correct answer: Yes. Anyone would make a better cabinet secretary than Joe Lieberman.

they want an ID card for immigrants, not citizens

Ever notice when a person accepts employment a U.S. citizen has to show two pieces of ID; an "immigrant" only has to show one?

|5.4.07 @ 9:46AM|#

Ever notice when a person accepts employment a U.S. citizen has to show two pieces of ID; an "immigrant" only has to show one?

Really, LarryA? Do you have personal experience in this matter? Please expand.

|5.4.07 @ 9:47AM|#

Where in heck are some of you folks getting that Dr. Paul believes in illegal immigration? He most certainly DOES NOT! In reality, his stance against it is one of the strongest of the whole pack. Go check it out... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

|5.4.07 @ 9:51AM|#

What I found very interesting was how the other candidates rushed to say that a National ID card was ONLY for foreigners, after Dr. Paul raised the issue. I call BS! Anyone read the REAL ID Act? That's for US, boys and girls. All of us.

|5.4.07 @ 10:06AM|#

Somewhere I picture Barack Obama laughing while throwing back a couple of martinis and high-fiving his aides as he watches this collection of losers.

|5.4.07 @ 10:33AM|#

In more important news, while the debate was going on, DC United tied with the New England Revs.

Equality 7-2321|5.4.07 @ 10:42AM|#

True, rather important.

United finally nabbed a point in their fourth game. So much for "best team ever."

The red on Joseph was weak, though. Maybe someday Moreno can score again not on a PK.

He-Haw|5.4.07 @ 10:49AM|#

Boohemian|5.4.07 @ 10:51AM|#

Somewhere I picture Barack Obama laughing while throwing back a couple of martinis and high-fiving his aides as he watches this collection of losers.

Before crapping on the floor and throwing his feces against the wall, as his type often do.

|5.4.07 @ 10:53AM|#

"Paul has to make the incorrect Scooter Libby issue yet another Leftist anti-war cross."

You don't have to be a leftist to be anti-war. Anti-war sentiments used to come from the right until the right became hawks during the Cold War. Now that the Cold War is over, the hawks have found other enemies to chase after.

|5.4.07 @ 10:57AM|#

"Hillary gang-bang."

Yuck

|5.4.07 @ 11:03AM|#

"Paul has to make the incorrect Scooter Libby issue yet another Leftist anti-war cross."

DC United could have used a few more crosses.

And the debate would have been better if Chris Matthews had been able to give out red cards.

|5.4.07 @ 11:04AM|#

"I thought he was with Ron Paul wanting the Airforce to air drop illegals into Iowa?"

Guy, I don't know where you get that Ron Paul is in favor of illegal immigration. Everything I've heard, he is opposed to it. He's concerned about them coming into the US and getting on welfare.

|5.4.07 @ 11:26AM|#

"BTW, Dr. Paul comes off well in the MSNBC poll:"

He is even currently going higher. This is very heartening. I hope this translates in a big bump in the polls, but remember there are also Democrats voting in this MSNBC poll. They probably liked his anti-war position. The important point is whereas over 70% of Republicans support the Iraq war, how will Paul do in the primaries.

|5.4.07 @ 11:36AM|#

"To admit they understand evolution is real would be claiming to be an atheist to those whack jobs."

Look to see McCain's poll numbers go down among the religious right.

|5.4.07 @ 11:38AM|#

Jimmydegeek, considering the president is ten times more informed than the average American Idol viewer, I think public opinion is irrelevant. If people were more interested in world affairs than Brittney Spears, you would have a point, but unfortunately, that's not the case.

|5.4.07 @ 11:48AM|#

"Duncan Hunter was Chairman of Armed Services, seemingly making seem more Commander-in-chiefish than Paul."

Duncan Hunter seems more of a war monger that McCain even. Listening to him, I'm convinced he is ready to invade Iran now. His first act as President would be to invade Iran, I'm sure.

Guy Montag|5.4.07 @ 12:05PM|#

Duncan Hunter seems more of a war monger that McCain even. Listening to him, I'm convinced he is ready to invade Iran now. His first act as President would be to invade Iran, I'm sure.

You write that with such a negative tone.

|5.4.07 @ 12:36PM|#

Hey! Ron Paul won the post-debate straw poll at DailyKos, beat only only by the undead Zombie Reagan! He's the anti-Lieberman!

|5.4.07 @ 1:29PM|#

I think the winner was the Democrats.

The issue for '08 will be the Iraq war. More than 60 percent think we should start rapping it up. The front runners pretty much supported Bush handling of the war. If the war does not look better by Nov of '08. Those who cling onto the Bush's handling of the war will be hammered.

|5.4.07 @ 1:44PM|#

"Those who cling onto the Bush's handling of the war will be hammered."

That's the way I see it. The Republicans are committing political suicide.

|5.4.07 @ 4:02PM|#

I think Rudy could have rapped up the nomination by claiming "the Iraq war was a distraction from getting the man behind 9/11. As a New Yorker this is unacceptable. I will do everything in my power to end the Iraq war and focusing on the real American threat, Bin Laden.

But Rudy already blew it by accepting Bush's strategy.

The American people are tired of Iraq, but I'm willing to bet putting OBL in the crosshairs would get everyone motivated again.

O\'Brien|5.4.07 @ 4:35PM|#

Bin Laden shot his wad. He's now no more of an "American threat" than Emmanuel Goldstein.

Grand Chalupa|5.4.07 @ 5:50PM|#

I think Rudy could have rapped up the nomination by claiming "the Iraq war was a distraction from getting the man behind 9/11. As a New Yorker this is unacceptable. I will do everything in my power to end the Iraq war and focusing on the real American threat, Bin Laden.

Don't ever quit your job and become a political consultant.

The vast majority of Republican primary voters still support the war and Guilliani isn't going to win the nomination by talking like John Kerry.

|5.4.07 @ 6:52PM|#

You right. I guess i'm under the false impression that American's still want payback for 9/11. Maybe the Republicans are ok with Iraq being the payback, or not interested in payback at all.

As a citizen of NYC I'm still interested in getting OBL. I guess it's wrong of me to assume for othere.

others, not othere

Guy Montag|5.5.07 @ 2:01AM|#

Ever notice when a person accepts employment a U.S. citizen has to show two pieces of ID; an "immigrant" only has to show one?

Well, the former Marine, Hatian immigrant reading this over my sholder earlier on Friday, said it was bullshit. I will go with his experience.

LarryA|5.6.07 @ 7:00PM|#

Ever notice when a person accepts employment a U.S. citizen has to show two pieces of ID; an "immigrant" only has to show one?

Okay, they changed things since last I applied for a job. Now if you have a passport or naturalization certificate you can show one. Most citizens end up showing an ID card (driver's license,) and eligibility card (Social Security card.)

Form I-9 available at http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf Note it's a pdf.

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