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Was Linus Pauling Off by One Letter?
Connoisseurs of unintended consequences will appreciate this Globe and Mail story, which suggests that public health officials in Canada and the U.S. may have inadvertently caused more cancer deaths than they prevented by advising people to stay out of the sun when possible and to cover up with clothing and sunscreen if they absolutely must go outside on a beautiful summer day:
In June, U.S. researchers will announce the first direct link between cancer prevention and the sunshine vitamin [i.e., vitamin D]. Their results are nothing short of astounding.
A four-year clinical trial involving 1,200 women found those taking the vitamin had about a 60-percent reduction in cancer incidence, compared with those who didn't take it, a drop so large—twice the impact on cancer attributed to smoking—it almost looks like a typographical error....
Those studying the vitamin say the hide-from-sunlight advice has amounted to the health equivalent of a foolish poker trade. Anyone practising sun avoidance has traded the benefit of a reduced risk of skin cancer—which is easy to detect and treat and seldom fatal—for an increased risk of the scary, high-body-count cancers, such as breast, prostate and colon, that appear linked to vitamin D shortages.
The paper reports that researchers also "are linking low vitamin D status to a host of other serious ailments, including multiple sclerosis, juvenile diabetes, influenza, osteoporosis and bone fractures among the elderly." I hope some of this speculation turns out to be well-founded, because it would be nice to have an easy way to prevent so many diseases and deaths. If that can be achieved only by embarrassing the nagging know-it-alls who've been telling us to avoid sunshine, that's a cost I can live with.
[Thanks to Mark Lambert for the link.]
Fluffy|5.1.07 @ 5:36PM|#
I always thought it was overkill to tell people to avoid
sunshine or they'd get cancer.
Telling them to avoid sunshine to avoid the fate of Robert
Redford's skin, however, is another matter altogether...
|5.1.07 @ 5:41PM|#
I've got red hair and pale skin. According to the current wisdom, I shouldn't go outside when the sun is out. Ever. That strikes me as overkill.
VM|5.1.07 @ 5:41PM|#
From Quackwatch, on Pauling and C, called, The Dark Side of Linus Pauling's Legacy
|5.1.07 @ 5:42PM|#
See, this just depresses me because I have to avoid prolonged exposure to sunshine or I will get cancer. Stupid genetic catch-22.
|5.1.07 @ 5:45PM|#
Do supplements work? I'm a pale demonstration of Northern European genetics living in Florida, so death by sun is a possibility. Not that I avoid exposure--I like to fish and kayak and stuff--but let us just say that Bullfrog is my friend.
|5.1.07 @ 5:49PM|#
See, this just depresses me because I have to avoid
prolonged exposure to sunshine or I will get cancer. Stupid genetic
catch-22.
You don't need prolonged exposure to get adequate levels of Vitamin
D. 10-15 minutes is sufficient.
Take a 20 minute walk after lunch or dinner without sunscreen and
you'll be all set.
That looks to be a fascinating study. I look forward to reading it
when it comes out. I may go ahead and step up my dietary intake in
the meantime.
|5.1.07 @ 5:57PM|#
>>Telling them to avoid sunshine to avoid the fate of
Robert Redford's skin, however, is another matter
altogether...
Seriously. SPF 15 on the face and neck is the best anti-aging "skin
secret" going.
If only someone had informed the Sundance Kid about sunscreen when
there was still time.
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 5:59PM|#
Sheesh, Back in the Stone Age, Memorial Day Weekend started out at Bleach Beach and finished up at Lobster City. Then somebody invented sunscreen.
Ryan|5.1.07 @ 6:10PM|#
How does binging affect the benefits of Vitamin D? E.g., say a
poor sap was in a cubicle during all sunlight hours 5 days a week,
then binges with several hours of consumption on weekends? But only
during the 4 months of the year that anybody would want to "binge"
in this frigid city?
Moderation blows.
grylliade|5.1.07 @ 6:16PM|#
You don't need prolonged exposure to get adequate levels of Vitamin D. 10-15 minutes is sufficient.
Take a 20 minute walk after lunch or dinner without sunscreen and you'll be all set.
At least according to the linked article, that's ten to fifteen
minutes of full body exposure. Unless you take that twenty
minute walk naked, you'll need a longer exposure than that.
Y'know, this'd be an interesting result. The higher levels of
cancer caused not by modern chemicals and diet, but by modern
indoor lifestyles? Too cool to contemplate. 'Course, I hate being
outside, so this doesn't help me much.
|5.1.07 @ 6:17PM|#
When they prove that frequent topless sunbathing is the best way to prevent breast cancer, then you doubters will know at last that There Is A God.
highnumber|5.1.07 @ 6:21PM|#
Take a 20 minute walk after lunch or dinner without
sunscreen and you'll be all set.
Can I cut this to 5 minutes if I'm nekkid?
|5.1.07 @ 6:22PM|#
Pro Libertate | May 1, 2007, 5:45pm | #
Do supplements work? I'm a pale demonstration of Northern European
genetics living in Florida, so death by sun is a possibility. Not
that I avoid exposure--I like to fish and kayak and stuff--but let
us just say that Bullfrog is my friend.
From the second paragraph, the answer's yes.
|5.1.07 @ 6:28PM|#
At least according to the linked article, that's ten to
fifteen minutes of full body exposure. Unless you take that twenty
minute walk naked, you'll need a longer exposure than
that.
Good point. Taking the walk in shorts, sandals, and shirtless was
what I had in mind, which is pretty close. Of course, if you are a
woman, or fat, out-of-shape, and self-conscious, that probably
wouldn't work that great. Increasing dietary intake might be a
better way to go, although I will probably stick with the 400 IU in
my multivitamin and a few extra glasses of milk per day for now. As
a general rule, I think it's best to hold off on megadosing until
all the data is in.
lunchstealer|5.1.07 @ 6:31PM|#
Highnumber, yes.
Stevo, also yes.
Number 6 - Yeah, does this mean that I'm actually going to have to
be awake when the sun's up? I hate that.
Stephen Macklin|5.1.07 @ 6:39PM|#
I wonder if I can use this to get my employer to do something about the windowless cave in which I toil during the most vitamin rich part of the day.
|5.1.07 @ 6:41PM|#
This is not news. I read about this two years ago; some scientists discovered that Australians had the highest rates of skin cancer in the world, but the lowest cancer death rate overall and posited that exposure to the sun was protectign them from other cancers.
GILMORE|5.1.07 @ 6:50PM|#
My grandfather spent his entire life mowing his lawn in the
North Carolina sun, and died at 96 just last month. He'd had like
200 skin cancers removed before he died in his sleep.
He also ate food that no one could possibly recommend as healthy:
country ham, lard biscuits, jelly, soda, collards cooked with ham
hocks and karo syrum, sweet potatoes with marshmallow... i mean
it's like the polar opposite of what people SAY you should
eat.
Its also yummy.
I have Casper the Ghost skin and have always had a strong belief in
going out and burning the shit out of myself for the pure physical
feedback. Skin cancer be damned. Now that I work from home office.
I get to take long strolls around the hood in my flip flops, and
that in itself will probably extend my life 10 years. Nice to know
i can get more sun this sping/summer and feel that it's not a bad
thing.
|5.1.07 @ 6:51PM|#
"As a general rule, I think it's best to hold off on megadosing
until all the data is in."
Good advice. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so you store up excess
vitamin D instead of peeing it out. Taking 500% of the daily
recomended dose can lead to toxic levels if I recall
correctly.
Dosage is key in biology. Calling chemicals completly good or
completely bad is studying motion with just the direction of the
forces and not their magnitudes.
GILMORE|5.1.07 @ 6:52PM|#
Stevo Darkly | May 1, 2007, 6:17pm | #
When they prove that frequent topless sunbathing is the best way to
prevent breast cancer, then you doubters will know at last that
There Is A God.
Amen Stevo
Plus, we'll discover that Bacon has the cure to all cancers in it.
As long as it's mixed with butter and jelly and sugar.
|5.1.07 @ 7:06PM|#
Hit the beach. Go swimming for about 20 minutes, then come out
and slather on the SPFage. Use the waterproof kind if you plan on
taking another dip.
Vitamin D or no, I'm still going to try to avoid sunburn. Tanning
is a theoretical possibility for me, but I haven't had mildly brown
skin since I was a kid spending just about every afternoon between
the end of the school year and Labor Day at the beach. We'd usually
burn and peel until our skin stabilized at some lightly toasted
shade. We used to joke about an "Irish Tan," which is what you got
when you freckled so much that the little buggers all merged.
I can remember when we thought that an application of baby oil
would help you tan, but keep you from burning!
Kevin
D.A. Ridgely|5.1.07 @ 7:24PM|#
Sounds good enough for me. I plan to spend the summer sitting by the pool, smoking.
Edward|5.1.07 @ 7:24PM|#
Yeah, it's great to watch the health fanatics scramble to revise their verities.
|5.1.07 @ 7:33PM|#
>I can remember when we thought that an application of baby
oil would help you tan, but keep you from burning!
Yes, and add some iodine.
That's what my great aunt used to do. She died in the 1950s, when
she was in her 30s, of what I am told was a rare form of skin
cancer. No one can tell me exactly what type of cancer it was,
though.
>Vitamin D or no, I'm still going to try to avoid sunburn.
Me too. I don't try to come near to total avoidance, but it doesn't
take long for me to feel the burn when I am in the sun. I don't
think I've ever had a genuine tan in my life.
Still, I'm glad to hear about this study. The idea that one should
avoid the sun as much as possible seems really antithetical to
life. Some admonitions against sun exposure are so extreme as to
seem bizarre.
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 7:37PM|#
I can remember when we thought that an application of baby
oil would help you tan, but keep you from burning!
Auuggghhh! My girlfriend would slather up with a concoction of baby
oil and iodine....
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 7:45PM|#
I have had some righteous sunburns on my thighs and tops of my
feet (from cruising around all day guzzling beer in the boat and
forgetting to put on the paraminobenzoic acid, an early form of
sunscreen that they kept behind the counter with the, ahh, baby
preventers). As a result, the skin pigment in those areas is all
screwed up anymore. Took time for it to morph, but it did.
I still do sun, but not without sunscreen. And the boat has a
Bimini top these days. Gotta keep that mid-day sun off.
Mmmmm, love sun. Love sun. Love sun. Gimme more sun. Not enough sun
here in Californicate, must move to Arizona or Hawaii.
highnumber|5.1.07 @ 7:53PM|#
The date: June 2000
The location: Tulum, Mexico
I forgot to put sunscreen on the tops of my feet.
I can still see the lines from the sandal straps.
Is that healthy?
Mike Laursen|5.1.07 @ 8:04PM|#
Fuck it! I'm just going to stick with my strategy of avoiding lab-rat doses of sun, shade, exercise, rest, green vegetables, yellow vegetables, red meat, white meat, gray meat, marshmallows, second-hand smoke, first-hand smoke, Republicans, Democrats, whatever.
|5.1.07 @ 8:05PM|#
I'm gonna have to go with no on that one highnumber.
although I am not a doctor. I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express
last nite.
|5.1.07 @ 8:26PM|#
Syd,
How can you expect me to read? My eyes are exposed to the Florida
sun each and every day.
|5.1.07 @ 8:36PM|#
So that famous commencement address that starts by advising the grads to wear sunscreen was completely useless?
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 8:39PM|#
I forgot to put sunscreen on the tops of my feet.
I can still see the lines from the sandal straps.
Is that healthy?
Ouch. And no.
|5.1.07 @ 9:00PM|#
Sad but true story.
I had a little skirmish with skin cancer. My dermatologist was
almost a compulsive sun avoider.
He died a few years back, at a very young age, of a stroke. Made a
pretty corpse.
|5.1.07 @ 9:54PM|#
I'm still looking forward to that discovery that cream pies and
ribeyes prevent cancer. We've now got sun exposure, dark chocolate,
coffee, strawberries and blueberries, and liver is now bad for you.
I'm getting to like the 21st century.
That said, like about 1/2 the people who comment here, I'm a pale
redhead. (There really has to be something to this. Redheads are
what? .2% of the population?) I also am prone to moles, including
abnormal ones, thus I am much more likely to contract melanoma
instead of the milder forms of skin cancer. So, like Pro L, I'm a
huge fan of Bullfrog, which must have something NASA developed to
spray on the moon rockets because I can apply it once, stay at the
water park all day, and not even turn pink. Kid-strength Banana
Boat is good too, but does require reapplication.
lily|5.1.07 @ 10:06PM|#
I watched my brother die of skin cancer in his early 30's. What was that about easily treatable and rarely causes death? My sister has also had melanoma - may have spread. She goes in every three months for internal and external checks. She is in her early 40's. Wear your sunscreen every day. Get your sun exposure early or late in the day. Stay out of the sun between 10am - 3pm. Melanoma is a really hard way to go.
|5.1.07 @ 10:28PM|#
lily -
I don't mean to be harsh, but anecdotes don't make truth. What's
harmful for one, might be helpful for many. (or vice versa)
Thinking of giving chemo to a healthly person.
Open minded... It is possible that sunlight is more helpful than
harmful (for most).
Lily|5.1.07 @ 10:34PM|#
SixSigma:
Hate to see people throw caution to the wind. The risk here is
real. Most people who live in relatively warm and/or sunny climates
get plenty of sun exposure just running day to day errands. Most
people are not practicing extreme sun avoidance. Even I'm not, and
I'm at extreme risk (so says my Dr.) This is not a time to lay by
the pool for hours at at time.
|5.1.07 @ 10:41PM|#
TWC.... "Auuggghhh! My girlfriend would slather up with a
concoction of baby oil" slathered up with baby oil was a
problem?
Anecdotes... my grandfather was born in the Orkney Islands (North
of Scotland) pale as a snake by nature. He retired to Florida and
spent 47 years enjoying non-stop sun exposure. His skin was like
leather and his doctor told him to remove lesions on his head using
600 grit sandpaper. He DID die of cancer in the end, but once you
reach 97 this is not all that surprising. He also ate bacon and
eggs every morning, drank whiskey and beer and smoked unfiltered
Lucky Strikes from the time he was 12 so he may be something of an
outlier.
|5.1.07 @ 11:17PM|#
Bob v. Lily:
The Globe & Mail article is from a Canadian
perspective. The latitude you live at has a lot to do with the
amount of sun exposure you get. What might be reckless in Florida
or on the Australian coast might be OK on the shores of Lake
Ontario.
Except one winter spent in the Tampa Bay area, I've always lived
north of 40°. In my time on the "Suncoast" I was working indoors
from 9-5 (or later), and didn't spend much time sunning myself. I
rarely wore shorts or went shirtless. That was frowned on at work,
and my favored modes of transport were bikes, with or without
motors. Long pants and sometimes long sleeves were advisable in
case of road rash. Yes, some old coot did run me off the road at
least once. I probably got more direct sun in any Lawn Island
summer than I did in that Florida winter.
I did see plenty of "white folks" with skin that resembled an old
football. It was one thing when it was some beachcombing retiree,
quite another when it was some teens-to-twenties blonde hottie. It
amazed me to see the fellows who worked construction, especially
roofers, or on road crews who worked shirtless the year `round.
There's some choice. Keep covered and suffer heat prostration, or
doff your shirt and deal with lesions years down the road.
Kevin
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 11:21PM|#
...slathered up with oil was a problem?
Well, no, but the iodine mixed with the oil left orangish stains on
my blue and white trunks and then there were those awkward
questions.
Of course, that summer was also the first time any sweet little
chick who was that close to naked ever got that close to
me.....didn't need a whole lot more than just that. (closes eyes
and smiles).
Oddly enough she was the niece of a rather well known Democrat
Senator from the Heart of Dixie. I'd name him but sure as hell
somebody'd tell her about it and she'd sue me.
600 Grit Sand Paper
LOL, that's pretty fine paper, but still....
Bob, it's been a long day and I've taken way too many breaks to
banter here on this BB but I have to say thanks for the laugh. Good
thing I wasn't drinking a glass of wine or the monitor would have
been covered.
The Wine Commonsewer|5.1.07 @ 11:33PM|#
Six, it's like incest, everything is relative.
Guy like me can do a lot more sun than say Mrs TWC, who has very
fair skin. She is pretty careful, espc since she had that one big
brown freckle removed. It wasn't cancer, but it gave her a scare
when it quadrupled in size in about six weeks.
I used to run into a CHP down at the Colorado River every so often.
We'd have some beers and tell some lies. He got the Big C from that
desert sun. Killed him like Lily's brother. Like every libertarian
on H&R, he was a red head with pale skin. By the time he took
serious measures to cover up and keep out of the sun it was too
late. Just saying.
Nothing wrong with a little sun, but there's nothing wrong with
moderation neither, except for drinking red wine, but that goes
without saying.
I guess you mostly said all that anyway, but I like the sound of my
own keyboard....
Now, if you'll excuse me, it's wine thirty and Mrs TWC is hollering
down the stairs that it's time for Idol.
|5.2.07 @ 12:12AM|#
lily -
The risk might be real. Just want to be careful that we don't
disregard possible new knowledge based on anectodal evidence.
TWC -
Not sure I wish to compare incest and cancer :)
But I certainly agree that ever person is an individual and their
risks will vary dramatically due to all sorts of factors(most of
which are completely unkown when it comes to cancer - but a
different discussion altogether).
This fact is demonstrated well in extreme cases where pencillin is
one man's savior, while still another man's lethal injection.
|5.2.07 @ 12:27AM|#
Don't really see how this is some unintended consequences thing...probably way overstated by Sullum to make a cute point...just do get some sun each day ...10 to 20 minutes..after that cover up esp if you live in someplace like AZ where after 15 minutes without protection you can literally feel your skin burn off.....no biggie
The Wine Commonsewer|5.2.07 @ 1:10AM|#
Can someone sue you for saying something that is
true?
John, I dunno, but that girl might. It was this guy
The Wine Commonsewer|5.2.07 @ 1:13AM|#
Six,
Not sure I wish to compare incest and cancer
What?
Vice is nice, but incest is best, ain't that how it
goes?
Thought that was pretty funny til my sister started talking trash
about dad. Still weirds me out.
|5.2.07 @ 1:52AM|#
On the other hand...
TUESDAY, May 1 (HealthDay News) -- Seniors who consume high
levels of calcium and vitamin D are much more likely to have larger
brain lesions that can lead to cognitive impairment, depression or
stroke, new research reveals.
[...]
"Since our study only looked at diet and brain lesions at one point
in time, we cannot conclude that calcium or vitamin D caused the
brain lesions that we found," she cautioned. But she added that
"our finding of a relationship between brain lesions and
consumption of both calcium and vitamin D raises the question about
a possible downside to high intakes of these nutrients."
High Calcium, Vitamin D Intake May Harm Aging
Brain
voyeur|5.2.07 @ 1:53AM|#
Latest research indicates that computer screens emit just enough D to cure everything, if a webcam is used.
|5.2.07 @ 3:38AM|#
Thinking from an evolutionary perspective, it seems that some
measure of sunlight should have a benefit. The adaptations of
different peoples to different skin tone according to light
conditions and even the ability to tan surely suggest that there is
some "good" amount of exposure which is most beneficial for
survival. If only too much light was bad, we would all be darker
skinned for protection.
Doesn't the fact that we have adaptations to allow a certain amount
of light to pass into the skin imply there must be a health benefit
to it doing so?
Untermensch|5.2.07 @ 7:56AM|#
There was a study reported on in Scientific American a few years ago that argued that, from an evolutionary perspective, skin cancer is a non-starter for influencing skin color since its effects tend to show up after one's prime reproductive years are over. On the other hand, excessive exposure to sun light destroys folate in the body and leads to neural tube defects in developing fetuses, which does have a direct evolutionary impact since those babies tend to not reproduce. On the other hand not enough sun and you get rickets from Vitamin D deficiency and similar problems that keep you out of the gene pool. So the evolutionary trick was to balance those two. The study actually came out and suggested that women of child-bearing age who might get pregnant avoid tanning parlors and eat folate-rich vegetables.
Untermensch|5.2.07 @ 7:57AM|#
…On the other hand, excessive exposure to sun light on the mother's part destroys folate in the body…
|5.2.07 @ 8:02AM|#
If I get all my rolls of fat to lay out smooth, will I get the necessary vitamin D in less time due to increased surface area? Does a thong help increase vitamin uptake?
|5.2.07 @ 9:55AM|#
I spent EVERY summer of my childhood through young adult years
(70's and 80's) at the beach (and even worked as a Lifeguard and
Swim Instructor into the 90's). I am of Irish and Scottish
descent--blond hair, green eyes, and fair skin, that burns then
tans.
Our parents sent us off to the beach at around 8AM every morning
(unless it rained) and we didn't come home until around 7PM.
Did any of us wear sunscreen? NOPE! Maybe this red-headed kid named
Danny slathered on Coppertone #4, but that's it!
I've been waiting all this time since the big "sun scare" for my
freckles to connect and develop into a giant malignant melanoma,
but at the age of 39...I got nothing--except REALLY strong bones!
Sure, a few premature wrinkles, but I blame my children for that!!!
:o)
The Wine Commonsewer|5.2.07 @ 10:11AM|#
My dad, who is a born-again genetic fanatic, has now adopted the
stance that every fargin' thing from cancer to longevity is purely
genetic. He won't even spot you smoking, although he will make an
exception for getting porky.
If he's right Lorikeet will be waiting a long time for lesions and
Lily better stay out of the sun. Or grab her a contractors pack of
600 grit sandpaper at Home Depot.
Have to say though Ms Keet--(there's a punny little play on that
right there but I'm not going there) the skin damage to the tops of
my feet hadn't shown up yet at 39. It looks like they're dirty and
smudged but you can't wash it off. No, haven't had them looked
at.
|5.2.07 @ 1:09PM|#
This is surely a conspiracy by auto makers to get everyone to trade in their roofed vehicles for expensive, new convertibles.
|5.2.07 @ 1:38PM|#
Is there an increase in cancers for people who are lactose intolerant, and so avoid drinking milk?
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