Rudy v. the Social Cons

Brian Doherty | March 6, 2007

The real GOP frontrunner might have some problems with one of his party's loudest constituencies, the socially conservative/religious right types, and this New York Observer piece is a good summation of the potential battlefield, and how Rudy is trying to slyly navigate it. Excerpts:

The trick is that Mr. Giuliani’s newly articulated, conservative-sounding positions have been carefully calibrated to appeal to a conservative base without definitively contradicting any of his past statements, which would run the risk of undercutting his iconic image as the unwavering leader of Sept. 11.

The result has been a somewhat dizzying dose of coded talk and footnoted arguments from Mr. Giuliani and his political surrogates.

On Feb. 14, Mr. Giuliani conceded to Larry King on CNN, “I am pro-choice, yes,” but he quickly added that he would only appoint strict constructionist judges to the federal courts.

His campaign invited national reporters onto a conference call earlier this month with Representative Candice S. Miller of Michigan, who, despite Mr. Giuliani’s strong record on gun control as Mayor, said he assured her that “he is a very strong supporter of the Second Amendment.”

Mr. Giuliani, who signed something called the Domestic Partnership Law when he was Mayor, now stresses the notion that marriage is sacred and should be between a man and a woman.

And who cares about the hidebound social cons anyway?

“The hard-right conservatives are a very small percentage of the electorate today,” said Barron Thomas, a Giuliani supporter and former “Pioneer” fund-raiser for George W. Bush.

Lots of the cons don't care about Rudy--and they can't take a joke either.

“He’s definitely not a social conservative,” said Tom Minnery, senior vice president for public policy for Focus on the Family. “He is pro-abortion; he is friendly to same-sex marriage; and his personal life is a problem. I have seen photos of him in drag.”

When reminded that Mr. Giuliani had appeared in drag as part of a comic performance for an audience of reporters and political insiders, Mr. Minnery said, “That gag may work on Manhattan Island, not on the mainland.”

What? Has Mr. Minnery never seen the Oscar-nominated Tootsie?

Comments

|3.6.07 @ 3:34PM|#

Tom Minnery needs to suck on my throbbing cock. So does Giuliani, for that matter.

|3.6.07 @ 3:39PM|#

wow. tough to follow that comment.

|3.6.07 @ 3:44PM|#

Comparing Giuliani's performance to the movie *Tootsie*?

"Rudy, I knew Dustin Hoffman, Dustin Hoffman was a friend of mine, and you, sir, are no Dustin Hoffman, thought you *do* look cute in a dress."

|3.6.07 @ 3:51PM|#

Andy, why is your cock throbbing?

Ha|3.6.07 @ 3:53PM|#

must be that picture of McCain to the right. that gets andy's groin all tingly.

|3.6.07 @ 3:58PM|#

Yeah, Oscar-nominated by the Hollywood intelligentsia! Real Americans didn't see that filth!

Seriously, Doherty, is it news that FotF has only a passing acquaintance with the real world?

|3.6.07 @ 4:03PM|#

Giuliani did the best SNL mock PSA Ever!

Here's a link, but is loses quit a bit in transcription. Guess it's just one of those 'you had to be there' things.

|3.6.07 @ 4:04PM|#

"On Feb. 14, Mr. Giuliani conceded to Larry King on CNN, "I am pro-choice, yes," but he quickly added that he would only appoint strict constructionist [read: polylogical, politically correct] judges to the federal courts."

Wow, a politician that lies... what are the odds of that?

VM|3.6.07 @ 4:09PM|#

Cab:

:)

It really was one of those moments from "Fletch": "well, there you have it"

:)

|3.6.07 @ 4:15PM|#

It is unlikely that the folks who fret about what the Teletubbies do with genitalia that they don't have, who lack the combination of brains and balls that it takes to walk around unarmed, and who regard the natural failure of a fertilized ovum to implant to represent the same loss of life as the death of a five-year-old will ever vote for an eye-talian yankee like

|3.6.07 @ 4:16PM|#

like Giuliani. I hit submit comment too soon.

|3.6.07 @ 4:19PM|#

When did Ann Coulter begin posting here under the name "andy"?

VM|3.6.07 @ 4:22PM|#

DAR:

you know, when you're Raggedy, it's sometimes hard to tell!

mediageek|3.6.07 @ 4:33PM|#

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Since when are gun rights something the social conservative set is concerned about?

I don't think I've ever seen Focus on the Family or any of the other creepy-ass religious organizations make much noise one way or the other about gun rights.

That said, Giuliani is a gun-grabber, and as someone who'd be more inclined to vote Republican than Democrat, I would be unable to pull the lever for him.

Eric Dondero|3.6.07 @ 4:51PM|#

Rudy Giuliani was just rated a "Moderate Libertarian" from the middle-of-the-road non-partisan Survey Index. His score was 60/60. The Survey Index folks rate all the top major party Presidential candidates on 20 different issues, according to their voting records, and past statements. They use the World's Smallest Political Quiz and chart the candidates on the 4-Quadrant Graph.

Interestingly, Giuliani was the only one to have a Libertarian designation. He finished right on the Libertarian/Centrist line; the only one to even touch the Libertarian Quadrant.

Other scores:

Brownback = Right Conservative, 80/40

McCain = Moderate Conservative, 60/40

Romney = Populist Conservative, 50/40

Hillary = Left Liberal, 30/60

Hussein Obama = Left Liberal 30/60

John Edwards = Populist Liberal, 20/60

Libertarians for Giuliani at www.mainstreamlibertarian.com

|3.6.07 @ 4:54PM|#

"That said, Giuliani is a gun-grabber, and as someone who'd be more inclined to vote Republican than Democrat, I would be unable to pull the lever for him."

I'd sure vote for him before I would Hillary.

|3.6.07 @ 4:56PM|#

Are socialcons like Decepticons?

|3.6.07 @ 5:20PM|#

i HATE the "world's smallest political quiz".

|3.6.07 @ 5:37PM|#

Gun owner's rights are one of the few areas where the libertarian agenda has made perceptible progress in recent years.

And it looks like, with a Democratic Congress already talking up a new assault weapons ban and no Presidential candidate in view who is even neutral on the topic, we're on track to lose even that.

VM|3.6.07 @ 5:42PM|#

You said it, mr. Crane.

Do you remember a blurb in the Onion, "world's smallest political quiz shows that [forget who] is a libertarian?

|3.6.07 @ 5:46PM|#

"world's smallest political quiz shows that [forget who] is a libertarian?"

Ayn Rand?

|3.6.07 @ 5:49PM|#

I'm learning to hate Eric Dondero.
What does it say about one if one chooses to refer to Obama with his middle name?

VM|3.6.07 @ 5:49PM|#

her or that twaddlenock Dondero. Fergit which.

/drinks

|3.6.07 @ 5:55PM|#

I like the OK Cupid test:

http://www.okcupid.com/politics

It has a chart with famous people on the background in the areas where you lie politically. I landed mostly on Jefferson and partially on Ted Nugent.

Robert|3.6.07 @ 6:04PM|#

Rudy Giuliani was just rated a "Moderate Libertarian" from the middle-of-the-road non-partisan Survey Index. His score was 60/60. The Survey Index folks rate all the top major party Presidential candidates on 20 different issues, according to their voting records, and past statements. They use the World's Smallest Political Quiz and chart the candidates on the 4-Quadrant Graph.

It's nice to try to do that sort of thing objectively, but in this case we have better evidence which unfortunately can't be applied to other candidates, based on his record as US att'y & mayor. The sampling of issues on WSPQ just doesn't suffice, and in fact isn't of much use for politicians or leaders in general, although it may work fairly well for just plain folks. Applied to Giuliani its results are just bizarre.

|3.6.07 @ 6:05PM|#

Rudy was "the only one to even touch the Libertarian Quadrant." Is that a good thing? Sounds a bit creepy to me.

|3.6.07 @ 6:07PM|#

"Andy, why is your cock throbbing?"

Thinkin' about you, sugartits.

|3.6.07 @ 6:07PM|#

FFF,

I'm worried. I landed squarely on the Unabomber.
I don't know what to think, because the message read "You exhibit a very well-developed sense of Right and Wrong and believe in economic fairness."

JD|3.6.07 @ 6:12PM|#

I doubt that the social conservative set per se is concerned about guns, just that they have a substantial overlap with those who are. Kind of like how, I dunno, the sets of Utahns and Mormons are not the same, but they overlap a lot, in a way that the sets of gun-rights enthusiasts and rich New York City lawyers tend not to.

BTW, the OK Cupid test said I was a "totalitarian"! I have no idea how someone could talk to me and legitimately get the idea that I was in favor of totalitarian government. All I can think is that they really mean "has strong ideas about right and wrong".

|3.6.07 @ 6:13PM|#

I landed on MLK's forehead, but he's right below the Unabomber. Apparently Kaczynski had a well developed sense of right and wrong except for that, you know, killing people bit.

|3.6.07 @ 6:20PM|#

An Italian, a hispanic, a black fella, a woman and a mormon. Did the slave owning rich white dudes in Philadelphia invision this?

No offense intended.....just a little playground type teasing

|3.6.07 @ 6:33PM|#

"Thinkin' about you, sugartits."

That's turbinado tits to you, mister. Loundry says I have sand in my vagina.

Could you imagine if Ann Coulter said that John Edwards has sand in his vagina?

|3.6.07 @ 6:36PM|#

At least he doesn't have centipedes in his vagina.

mediageek|3.6.07 @ 6:39PM|#

"I'd sure vote for him before I would Hillary."

If Rudy is the Rep. choice, I'll be lodging a protest vote for whoever the LP candidate is.

LarryA|3.6.07 @ 6:44PM|#

I don't think I've ever seen Focus on the Family or any of the other creepy-ass religious organizations make much noise one way or the other about gun rights.

Branch Davidian.

John Kindley|3.6.07 @ 6:48PM|#

"Mr. Giuliani conceded to Larry King on CNN, "I am pro-choice, yes," but he quickly added that he would only appoint strict constructionist judges to the federal courts."

These two propositions are not the nuanced balancing act many take them to be, much less contradictory, but rather both are natural and complementary corollaries of the principle of limited government. Libertarians should not applaud Roe v. Wade and every other "constitutional right" conjured out of thin air by the fantasies of liberal, activist judges. Judicial restraint, whereby judges are supposed to interpret rather than make law, is a principle of limited government and separation of powers. The problem is that power of its very nature loves to expand, and all three separate powers have not so much limited themselves or acted as a limiting check on the others as they have concurrently bloated themselves, stinking up the whole place from sea to shining sea with government and more government.

Maybe the Founders (of both our federal and state governments) got it wrong when they decided that the artificial and arbitrary device of a simple majority of our "representatives" was enough to express the will of the people concerning a proposed law, let alone the consent of the governed. Maybe requiring a 2/3 or 3/4 majority to enact any legislative provision coercing anybody would have been closer to the mark (with a simple majority still being sufficient to repeal any such provision, of course). Now THAT would have been a check on government.

John Payne|3.7.07 @ 12:54AM|#

Garth Brooks didn't seem to experience any adverse effects from playing an "Old French Whore" on Saturday Night Live about a decade ago, so Minnery may be somewhat off base there.

|3.7.07 @ 11:24AM|#

"If Rudy is the Rep. choice, I'll be lodging a protest vote for whoever the LP candidate is."

Most likely I'll be voting Libertarian myself as I usually do unless the election is close in my state.

|3.7.07 @ 11:57AM|#

I scored 76% social liberal and 70% economic conservative, i.e. libertarian.

|3.8.07 @ 11:16AM|#

Too many GOPers have talked about the party getting back to its roots, yet when they find somebody who is strong on defense and a fiscal hawk, they start blabbing about social issues.

The GOP is fundamentally a religious party. That is at odds with its "roots".