As Goes Mel, So Goes ...

David Weigel | May 12, 2006

So, is this it? Are pro-flagellation social conservatives finally going to jump off the Bush bandwagon?

Comments

|5.12.06 @ 12:06PM|#

Wow! Good for Mel!

JMJ

|5.12.06 @ 12:10PM|#

FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!

|5.12.06 @ 12:15PM|#

Ponnuru . . . yech.

|5.12.06 @ 12:16PM|#

"The fear-mongering we depict in the film reminds me of President Bush and his guys".

Which is nothing like the fear-mongoring from the various salvationist religions, right? I mean, when you say to people, "you are all sinners, the wages of sin are death, in order to escape you must repent and come to church and pray and fork over your money to our coffers", that's not "fear-mongoring" at all, right Mel?

Fucking hypocrites abound. He's right, of course, but he's got no room to talk whatsoever.

Warren|5.12.06 @ 12:19PM|#

Oh man, One can only hope this escalates into an all out intra-zealot meltdown.

I'm making popcorn.

Dave W.|5.12.06 @ 12:20PM|#

The problem is that this movie will drive its audiences to kill political officials the same way the last one caused audiences to kill Jewish people./sarc

|5.12.06 @ 12:21PM|#

Farces Wanna Mo needs to work on his sarcasm a little bit.

|5.12.06 @ 12:21PM|#

Evan,
Jesus never told anyone to go to church or give money to "the church" - don't paint all christians with that brush.

|5.12.06 @ 12:25PM|#

I've been hoping for some evangelical v. papist feudin'

|5.12.06 @ 12:29PM|#

Randolph,

Regardless of the "go to church" or "give money" aspects, salvationist religion in general is all about fear mongoring. It's about scaring people, via the whole "sin" and "fiery pits of hell" thing, into "being saved". The above are just details.

|5.12.06 @ 12:32PM|#

Jaymicjay: You're not even trying anymore, are you.

|5.12.06 @ 12:53PM|#

I wonder how quickly consevatives will turn on Mel Gibson after touting him as the antithesis of liberal Hollywood.

|5.12.06 @ 1:05PM|#

Evan,
It's true that religions based on salvation idea tend to look to the next world rather than this one, but I think it's important to distinguish between church dogma and the actual teachings present in the sacred text the religion is based on. As far as fear-mongering and brimstone, that's basically a tactic churches started to use once they realized they could get some temporal power. It's certainly not what motivated the apostles or early christians.

David T. Beito|5.12.06 @ 1:10PM|#

He was never on the bandwagon to begin with. He has been a long-time skeptic of the Iraq war.

|5.12.06 @ 1:15PM|#

...salvationist religion in general is all about fear mongoring.

Evan: Is salvationist religion a particular kind or are you suggesting all religions (by virtue of their focus on an afterlife) are salvationist?

|5.12.06 @ 1:19PM|#

David T. B.,

You're right. He has made anti-Iraq war statements in the past. As a matter of fact, he made those comments on a podium with Michael Moore when 'Passion' was at the height of its box office punch. I recall the conservative blogosphere erupting for a brief spell, but most pro-Bush christian types just swept it under the rug. However, he seemed to loose some of his golden-boy luster after those comments. My admiration for him boomed by about 100 dB, though.

|5.12.06 @ 1:20PM|#

As far as fear-mongering and brimstone...It's certainly not what motivated the apostles or early christians.

Randolph, I agree and would add that I beleive it is a grossly inaccurate stereotype to suggest that it [fm&b] is what motivates most of today's christian theists.

|5.12.06 @ 1:35PM|#

Apologies for making another potential religion thread. Dammit.

On another note, Mel Gibson is pretty cool for drawing a connection between two governments that draw/drew their power from fear of dissolution.

Jeff P|5.12.06 @ 1:40PM|#

On the subject of fear mongering, I submit this 'cuz it's funny:
Kissing Hank's Ass
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Videos/Kissing_Hanks_Ass-video.mov

|5.12.06 @ 1:44PM|#

It looks like Mel has made the jump from Social Conservative to Declinist. Soon, he'll be blowing off lunch meetings with Rick Santorum (yes, he has done that)to dine with Chalmers Johnson and making references to "Imperator Bush".

An improvement imo.

Viking Moose|5.12.06 @ 2:13PM|#

MK:

will Gaius be there, too?

|5.12.06 @ 2:32PM|#

"I've been hoping for some evangelical v. papist feudin'"

Screw that. I wanna see some Executive branch v. bloodthirsty Mayan feudin.'


Warren, don't forget to sprinkle a little bit of red pepper on the popcorn. Gives it some zing.

|5.12.06 @ 3:03PM|#

Gibson reveals he used present day American politics as an inspiration, claiming the government callously plays on the nation's insecurities to maintain power.

Definite popcorn flick. The Mayan Civilization brought down by porn, meth, immigration and a nipple.

|5.12.06 @ 3:18PM|#

will Gaius be there, too?

Sure, I'd send them a round of drinks, wouldn't you?

|5.12.06 @ 3:51PM|#

Will Gibson be nailing Bush's hands to a cross any time soon?

|5.12.06 @ 3:59PM|#

gaijin: salvationist refers to religions that are based on its adherents being "saved", by their adherence/worship, from various terrible things.

|5.12.06 @ 5:29PM|#

I agree with Evan. If you're telling people to accept a given dogma or spend all eternity suffering, then you are fear mongering and by definition preaching fire and brimstone. Not all Christians believe this, but the vast majority do-- and so does Gibson, ergo he is being hypocritical.

|5.12.06 @ 7:09PM|#

Please explain how Christianity is not based entirely on fear mongering. Being told that failing to follow a strict behavioral code will result in an eternity of punishment from a loving God is not exactly a positive message.

|5.12.06 @ 7:28PM|#

For a full explaination, Scott, crack open the gospels. Jesus never threatened people (except moneychangers in the temple, which is a pretty interesting episode). He did not gain one follower by saying "follow me, or you'll go to hell." He did it through a message of love & compassion, plus a little incentive of "the kingdom of heaven." Many early Christians (being unfamiliar with or unwilling to accept the idea of a life after death, especially our modern conception of heaven as a place where you walk around on clouds and meet a bunch of already dead people) thought that the point of Jesus' teachings was to build a "kingdom of heaven" on earth. Before you scream "theocracy," they didn't want anyone else to have to change, they wanted to be separate and do their own thing.

Christianity started its downward spiral with the Emperor Constantine, who got the daft idea of offering people the choice of conversion or death. This original mixing of temporal and spiritual authority really screwed the pooch, and continues to screw said pooch.

But don't make sweeping statements about Christianity if you only have a caricature of what it's really about.

GOD! sorry again about the religion thing, it just bugs me when people malign a set of moral teachings that are, at their base, pretty good.

|5.12.06 @ 10:56PM|#

Hump, death, hump, death, hump, death?

Robert|5.13.06 @ 2:36AM|#

Religions aren't based on sacred texts. Sacred texts are based on religions.

|5.13.06 @ 8:31AM|#

Where is gaius, anyway?

I miss him.

|5.13.06 @ 10:32PM|#

Can ANYONE find any more "criticism" of Bush from Mel, other than what's contained in the single quote "The fear-mongering we depict in the film reminds me a little of President Bush and his guys"?

Nope. This is the case of the leftist media taking ONE SINGLE LINE out of an entire interview and makes that the ENTIRE STORY.

Does that single line qualify as "scathing"? Did that one line really "slam" Bush? These are two terms used in most "news" stories about Gibson's interview in Hotdog magazine.

Why do so many media outlets focus on the same solitary quote? Why do they parrot the words "slams" and "scathing"? It's simple: WEAK MINDS THINK ALIKE!

The media are a bunch of Bush haters looking for any excuse to show conservatives "turning" on Bush.

Hell, the media could focus on a single quote from me, and use it to portray me as a Clinton supporter.