Hugo Chavez's Legacy of Conflict and Propaganda

What the death of Chavez means for Venezuela and the U.S.

Since Hugo Chavez’s death was announced a war of words has erupted in Venezuela and abroad for control over the definition of his legacy. Was Chavez an authoritarian thug? Was he a bold and authentic representative of the world’s exploited and downtrodden? Was he a human rights violator or a human rights defender? A champion of the underdog or a bully? Depending on what you read or where you are tuning in, he was one of these things or the opposite, and occasionally he was several at once. The debate will rage for years and millions of dollars will be spent in hagiographic exercises or in efforts to demonize the man. One thing, though, can be agreed upon from the outset—conflict and confrontation was the defining factor of Hugo Chavez’s political existence and it will also be his legacy.

Chavez burst onto the Venezuelan political scene in 1992 when he tried to overthrow the democratically-elected government of Carlos Andres Perez—a socialist leader beloved by the likes of Fidel Castro, Francois Mitterand, and Spain’s Felipe Gonzalez. The Chavez plot was to kill president Perez and his family and then subject Venezuelan society to a cleansing complete with proscription lists sentencing enemies of the state to death for various unspecified crimes. Chavez failed, but after a brief stint in prison he traded his military fatigues for a suit and exploded onto the electoral scene, winning the 1998 presidential election in a landslide.

Historians and pseudo-historians favorable to Chavez have spent the better part of his 14-year rule assuring the world’s intellectuals that, domestically, Chavez embodied the spirit and struggle of a neglected population of Venezuela’s underclass that was ignored in a 50-year duopoly that never shared Venezuela’s oil wealth. They have used every metric at their disposal to claim that, on balance, Chavez has been a significant step forward in Venezuela’s development. Beyond Venezuela, his defenders delight in how he was an impish and daring voice against what they see as a North-South divide; that Chavez stood up to the United States on behalf of the world’s poor and downtrodden.

The alternate view, briefly summed up, is that Chavez was a narcissistic power-hungry authoritarian who presided over a corrupt criminal enterprise he called a government. This view maintains that Chavez divided Venezuela into two warring factions while he and his cronies looted the country’s oil wealth and embarked on diversionary foreign policy exercises that lumped Venezuela in troubling and sympathetic relationships with the dictatorships of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia, North Korea, Zimbabwe, and Belarus. Sadly, there are fewer articulate and honest critics of Chavez than there are dishonest sycophants.

The public relations struggle over Chavez is not new but this period will be its fever pitch. Chavez partisans both inside and outside of Venezuela are aware that as long as they can convince world opinion that everything that preceded Chavez was terrible—or at least as bad—then allowance can be made for the faults or crimes of his government.  

Greg Grandin, a professor of history at New York University, writes in The Nation: “Every sin that Chávez was accused of committing—governing without accountability, marginalizing the opposition, appointing partisan supporters to the judiciary, dominating labor unions, professional organizations and civil society, corruption and using oil revenue to dispense patronage—flourished in a system the United States held up as exemplary.” In other words, the previous governments were appalling. There is some truth to what Grandin says. That’s why Venezuelans polled in the 1990s favored an illegal coup and yearned for a strongman. Chavez was happy to oblige.

However, a major modifier that Grandin and other Chavez supporters like Pomona’s Miguel Tinker-Salas, and Drexel’s George Ciccariello-Maher, choose not to emphasize is the sheer scope of Chavez’s sins.

Venezuela’s pre-Chavez democratic governments were messy, inefficient, and corrupt. However, there were term-limits: presidents could only serve one term and would have to wait a decade out of office before seeking re-election. Government included checks and balances to the point that Carlos Andres Perez (who Chavez tried to assassinate) was impeached for corruption in 1993. Judicial appointments were previously made by factions from various political parties—unlike under Chavez who, first, stacked the Supreme Court and, then, personally threw judges who disagreed with him in prison (the most prominent one, a female judge, alleged that she was raped there). Critical television and radio stations weren’t shut down and labor unions marched and were able to strike without going to prison under the earlier regime. Under Chavez, the persecution of union leaders was frequent.

Both monetary policy and the oil wealth collected by the central government had historically been subject to audits and congressional oversight from a bicameral body. Under Chavez, none of the above was allowed. Accountability became non-existent. In 2012, Transparency International declared Venezuela the most corrupt country in the Americas. From this perspective, waste due to mismanagement of the economy and theft from government coffers during Chavez’s 14-year rule far exceeds the economic evils under all Venezuelan governments during the twentieth century. Combined.

Completing a list of Chavez’s excesses, especially those that starkly contrast with the governments that preceded him, would be an exercise that could fill several encyclopedias. Unfortunately, there is no institution or public relations team providing a counter to the confrontational Chavez apparatus, whose talking point hinges on re-writing Venezuelan history and stressing that if the Chavez project fails then Venezuela would regress to an unimaginable past.

Throughout the 20th century it was common practice among propagandists and apologists of both left-wing and right-wing dictators to use this Manichean approach—pointing to scapegoats of an unimaginable past that would pave the road to rewriting history. Fortunately, beyond the walls of a dictatorship and especially after they crumble, history tends to put propagandists in the place they belong.

Ironically, the most articulate voices in exposing Chavez have come from those who, initially, appeared to give him the benefit of the doubt. The best two examples are Brian A. Nelson, author of The Silence and the Scorpion: The Coup Against Chavez and the Making of Modern Venezuela, which was named one of the "Books of the Year" 2009 by The Economist, and Rory Carroll, former Guardian correspondent in Venezuela and author of Comandante: Hugo Chávez’s Venezuela. Both these authors’ research led them to conclusions that contradicted their own ideological positions, but by being honest intellectuals, they were able to accurately report on some of the most politicized episodes of recent Latin American history. To some on the left, they might remain mere turncoats to their political and ideological roots. Yet, this is precisely the key to the conflict over Chavez’s legacy; it isn’t about empirical evidence, it’s about politics and power.

That human rights and liberal democracy had a rough time under Chavez is beyond question to the reasonable observer. And it remains to be seen whether after his death the situation will improve or further slide into authoritarianism. What can be definitely counted on is that partisan hacks will continue to engage in a full throttle defense of El Comandante, truth be damned.

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  • nilecroc||

    My government prof. from last year would be one of these people. That ass hat thought because the fed has a government granted monopoly on printing money, the the government owns all money, and therefore has a right to take my money. Di I forget to mention that he's black and I'm white, so he thought I owed him money for civil rights violations.

  • Virginian||

    My poli sci professor had a PhD from Georgetown in international relations. She didn't know what the Monroe Doctrine was. She also told me once I had an insufficently open mind, because I refused to accept her premise that it was not possible to judge whether North Korea or South Korea was a better country.

  • ||

    Nilecroc, Virginian:

    Y'all are making that shit up. Arent you?

    It is too depressing to think that you arent.

  • Professional Target||

    They certainly don't need to. I had a psych prof who taught us the "Person-House-Tree" drawing test. I have always liked putting my own spin on things, so I drew someone sitting at a table drawing, and outside the sliding glass doors, you could see the trunk of a large tree.

    He freaked. "You did this on purpose, right?"

  • Alan||

    Had to look up what that test is ... but this is awesome.

    I'm afraid the only thing that test would measure if it were given to me would be my lack of artistic ability.

  • ||

    I forgot to ask...are y'all in university in the U.S.?

    If profs had done any of that shit when I was there they would have been lynched.

  • Professional Target||

    Virginia and Delaware in the early 1980s.

  • Virginian||

    This was in DC in fall 2007. I shudder to think what it would have been like to take that class only a year later, during Obama's ascenscion election.

    The Monroe Doctrine thing was actually the first class. I think I still have my notebook here.....I used to write down stupid shit she said. Let's take a trip down memory lane.

    "Muslim terrorists don't kill people because of their religion...that has nothing to do with it."

    "Student: What about the Missouri Compromise?
    Professor: I'm not familiar with that."

    "The Constitution is, indisputably, a living and changing document. "

    A Nolan style chart where Socialism is placed in the middle, and not on the left where it belongs.

    "In a totalitarian regime, you're not going to see a lot of neglect of the basic needs of people."

    "There are laws that keep you from being racist" This might have been the stupid girl across the aisle (literally and figuratively)

    "Here we can see Ronald Reagan (said with a grimace) being sworn in on a Bible. Some say a more secular document should be used, like the tax code or something." Note: she could have been joking here. I'm not sure.

    "Her: America was rocked by a depression throughout the 20s.
    Me: You mean the 30s, right?
    Her: No, because the New Deal was in the 30s, and that ended the Great Depression. You should have covered that in high school."

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    "Her: America was rocked by a depression throughout the 20s.
    Me: You mean the 30s, right?
    Her: No, because the New Deal was in the 30s, and that ended the Great Depression. You should have covered that in high school."

    THIS IS WHAT PROGRESSIVES ACTUALLY BELIEVE.

  • Virginian||

    Yeah, I am not easy to shut up, and I just stared at her in the way you stare at the urine soaked homeless guy who's asking you if you have accepted Jesus into your life.

    I took a freshman level prelaw intro type course right after my poli sci. Taught by a snot nosed 27 year old who had just gotten his JD from....wait for it....Berkley. That was just me and him arguing for fifty minutes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. Nothing ever actually got taught.

  • Killazontherun||

    Her: No, because the New Deal was in the 30s, and that ended the Great Depression. You should have covered that in high school."

    Holy fucking cocksucker Jesus.

  • Homple||

    I like the idea of presidents taking their oath of office by mounting tall ladder and putting their right hand on top of the entire tax code. Or maybe the stack of Obamacare regulations, or the Patriot Act.

    It would demonstrate their true faith and allegiance.

  • John C. Randolph||

    I'm not religious in any way, but come to think of it, there is something obscene about a politician swearing on a bible.

    -jcr

  • sloopyinca||

    Meh, let them do what they want. It's called the 1A, and he should have the choice to swear or affirm any way he sees fit.*

    He wants to use a bible? A Koran? The Tax Code? A copy of MAD Magazine? I could care less.

    *I am Catholic but would feel this way anyhow.

  • Brandybuck||

    I've got no problem with it, but I would any violation of the strictures within the Bible should lead to immediate impeachment proceedings.

  • SIV||

    Not obscene if the politician burns in Hell for violating the oath sworn on the Bible.

    I almost wish I had faith as the idea of Bush in a lake of fire getting eternally stabbed with pitchforks for signing campaign finance reform makes me smile :)

  • Professional Target||

    .I used to write down stupid shit she said.

    I wish I had thought of that!

  • Irish||

    "Muslim terrorists don't kill people because of their religion...that has nothing to do with it."

    What? Did she explain the reason?

  • Virginian||

    Oh it was straight Marxist. I mean, she has a point that the shitty economy of, in this case, the Muslim regions of the Philippines definitely play a role, but she asserted that guys who blow themselves up shouting "God is great!" don't have any religious motivation at all. I think when I asked her to elaborate she blathered on and I said something to the effect of "So they all think they're fighting and dying for their god, but you know the real reason is something else entirely?"

    I mean, it was a textbook Marxist false consciousness argument.

  • Irish||

    Which raises an interesting question: Why do really poor parts of southeast Asia have low murder rates and no suicide bombers? They're just as impoverished. Hmmm...I wonder what the difference is between a place like Southeast Asia and places ruled by homicidal death cults.

  • ||

    Having theocratic or heavily religion-influenced governments is the problem. It helps to legitimize fanaticism as a solution to social problems.

  • ||

    And of course gives such fanaticism a channel through which to impose it's will on others.

  • Brandybuck||

    I took a class on Restoration period English Lit. You know, all those plays about libertines and stuff. So one student asks what a libertine was. The grad student teaching the class answered, "Someone who has no morals, like Ronald Reagan".

  • Irish||

    Yeah, when I think Ronald Reagan I think sexual and drug libertinism. It's a perfect comparison.

  • Alan||

    Oh my!

    Presumably she had her Ph.D. from a diploma mill located in Georgetown?

    Because illiterate tribesmen in Outer Mongolia are more sophisticated in their understanding of American law than this professor you mention.

  • SIV||

    If profs had done any of that shit when I was there they would have been lynched.

    Lynching has an undeserved bad rap.

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    I had a sub to Scientific American for a long time, but the publisher had a boner for the first article being some political wet dream which always pissed me off. The one that went too far to renew was a comparison of communist and capitalist capitol cities, and the crown jewel in his examples was N and S Korea. It included pictures of both, and Seoul was full of color, not just from advertisements, but from clothes, store windows, shopping bags, cars, everything. Pyongyang was utterly gray and empty. One of his general complaints was that crowding all those people into Seoul concentrated all the pollution and sewage problems in one spot, as compared to Pyongyang with so few people that pollution didn't exist. I remember wondering what was wrong with colorful cities and how much harder it would be to process all that sewage if it were spread out, and how much more pollution there'd be if all those people had to drive everywhere.

    This was the late 1970s, I think. I'd love to find that article online to see how much my memory exaggerates it.

  • Sevo||

    "One of his general complaints was that crowding all those people into Seoul concentrated all the pollution and sewage problems in one spot, as compared to Pyongyang with so few people that pollution didn't exist."
    What's more is that the folks in Pyongyang don't have much to eat, so the sewage is much reduced.
    He could have suggested starving everyone so there was no sewage at all!

  • JWatts||

    "He could have suggested starving everyone so there was no sewage at all!"

    Well everyone but the correct thinking elite that is. Such as publishers to prestigious journals.

  • Professional Target||

    My basic physiology prof was one of those who claimed defecating could be as pleasurable as fornicating.

    Of course that was the same class that, when he mentioned sperm was a glycoprotein, a girl I had had my eye on responded, "Then why does it taste salty?" She was instantly popular.

  • Ted S.||

    My basic physiology prof was one of those who claimed defecating could be as pleasurable as fornicating.

    Professional Target obviously has a different kink.

  • Professional Target||

    No sewage for me. My kinks all involve women.

    I thought I was a kinky guy until this one woman wanted me to hit her. I meant hit her, like bruises and stuff. I tried. All I felt was sick. She was mad as hell.

  • sloopyinca||

    I found out I'm not a kinky guy when a girl tried to stick her finger in my butthole once.

    I looked like I was playing crab soccer getting away from that move.

  • Ted S.||

    The kink could be defecating on a woman.

  • Professional Target||

    Yeah. No. Ick.

  • ||

    So the other way around, then?

  • Professional Target||

    Sewage ain't my thing. I've been to places without flush toilets or water you can trust. Didn't leave anything behind I care to go back for.

  • ||

    "Then why does it taste salty?"

    That story's been around since I was in college.

    New material please. ;-)

  • Irish||

    I was going to say, I've definitely heard that story. Either Professional Target is a liar, or he had a very famous girl in his class.

  • Professional Target||

    I was going to say, I've definitely heard that story. Either Professional Target is a liar, or he had a very famous girl in his class.

    I suspect it's one of those things that happens from time to time and is therefor a joke. Like people who call PC repairmen because it's unplugged.

  • Brandybuck||

    My mom had me fix one of her friend's computers, and it turned out it really was unplugged. I did not point this out, but made a show of opening the case and fiddling with some boards.

  • Professional Target||

    A neighbor asked me if could fix her PC's cup holder. She had broken the CD drive's drawer belt. I got it to work again with a rubber band.
    I told a real PC repair person about it and he told me it was an old joke even then, in the 1990s.

  • JWatts||

    For a short time during the late 1980's my mother was the designated local computer resource at the school she worked at. She was also the first line of computer tech support. One day she got a call from a teacher who had just gotten their first classroom computer. The computers were set up on rolling carts with wire tied power supplies.

    The teacher involved called and said the computer wouldn't turn on. My mother spent a few minutes going through the very basics. "Did you turn on the power switch?", "Did you turn on the monitor switch?", "Did you turn on the power strip switch?", "Umm,,,did you plug the power switch into the outlet?", all were answered in the affirmative.

    At that point my mother got off the phone and went down to the classroom. The 'teacher' had plugged the power strip cord back into itself.

    You've got to love public education and tenure.

  • Professional Target||

    Yeah, I've heard it as a joke too. She still said it. 1981, I think it was.

    Another real story sounds like a joke: I was (half of) the clown and magic act part of an vaudville reenactment troupe. There was also a bit that had a priest character and a hassidic rabbi character. We worked the street to try to get people to come in and see the show. Between acts we would go to this bar down the block for a quick dinner and a couple beers. Every time we (a priest, a rabbi and a clown) would walk in there the bartender would yell, "What is this, some kinda joke?"

  • ||

    Did you go to Penn State? Cause that's where it allegedly happened when I heard it in 83.

  • Professional Target||

    Yeah, I went to Penn State! I think it was a Wednesday...

    I suspect this is one of those things that happens over and over. Like statists telling me "we believe in the same things, but you and I draw the lines in different places."

  • A Serious Man||

    Stupid is stupid, but I had a poli sci professor that would teach Howard Zinn and Soviet apologist Michael Parenti as required reading while routinely going off on diatribes against the evils of capitalism.

  • ||

    Get a brick, paint it up as a piece of rotten fruit. When they start that shit, let it sail.

    Aim for the temple.

  • Ted S.||

    Would you like some Snapple?

  • Cytotoxic||

    I thought I had it bad in this stupid stupid class I took about relations between America and Japan. The book was clearly biased to statism and anti-Americanism but it had scholarly discipline limiting the hurrahs for Japan's state-guided economy...and about 7 lines dedicated to Japan's early-90s crash. The instructor was insufferable the book clearly wasn't 'anti-imperialist' enough for him because he was always shooting off on irrelevant tangenital rants. I complained to the person you're supposed to complain about and I did so quite diplomatically but she basically brushed me off. Bitch.

  • PapayaSF||

    I read an incredibly funny article by Parenti in the early '90s, after the fall of the USSR. He went to a Moscow book fair and was surprised and upset that the Russians walking by his booth, which was covered with books on Marxism, would either ignore him, laugh, or get angry and yell at him. He couldn't really understand why this happened. What a fool.

  • nilecroc||

    I wish, I had to sit through the fucking class.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Once again demonstrating that idiots can get credentials. The woman is obviously unemployable in the real world, so she'll be living in the ivory tower spouting nonsense until it's time to shuffle her off to the geriatric ward.

    -jcr

  • Killazontherun||

    Di I forget to mention that he's black and I'm white, so he thought I owed him money for civil rights violations.

    Was he in his fifties? I would have love to have passively tormented him until I induced a stroke.

  • Dweebston||

    presided over a corrupt criminal enterprise he called a government

    Tomato, tomahto?

  • Stephdumas||

    A guy nicknamed Pancho49 posted a post on CNN's blog http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-937093?hpt=hp_c2

    I guess we could compare it with the legacy of Juan Peron.

  • Generic Stranger||

    CNN's comments are the worst. Well, maybe not as bad as YouTube's, but close.

  • sloopyinca||

    I thought they randomly exchanged comments as some sort of goodwill exchange program. Personally, I can't tell the difference.

  • Killazontherun||

    CNN Viewers. Not just informed, but affectatiously informed.

  • hotsy totsy||

    I wonder how many of them had ever been to Venezuela before and after Chavez. And they still consider themselves experts.

  • ||

    The comments for this post are better than most. I see plenty of "Chavez sucked" and "he wasn't all he's cracked up to me" comments, and actually very few "THIS IS ALL CAPITALIST LIES!" comments.

  • SugarFree||

    As Thor Halvorssen of the New York-based Human Rights Foundation explains, it is beyond question that human rights and liberal democracy suffered under Chavez’s rule.

    TRUST DEMOCRACY!

    /joe

  • Killazontherun||

    You know Mary gets pissed off when you show up on weekends.

  • mtrueman||

    Chavez's biggest crimes were to pursue an independent foreign policy, and to redistribute wealth in favour of the poor.

    As for the rest, we need to remember that Chavez wasn't a liberal. To say ¨that human rights and liberal democracy had a rough time under Chavez is beyond question to the reasonable observer" is missing the point. While liberal democracy had a rough time, democracy, unchecked and unbalanced, fared much better.

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    Chavez's biggest crimes were to pursue an independent foreign policy, and to redistribute wealth in favour of the poor.

    I think the censorship, beatings and imprisonment of political rivals, seizure of private property and businesses, funnelling stolen money to prop up the totalitarian dictatorship of Cuba (when he wasn't pocketing it for himself), and feckless disregard/contempt for Venezuela's Constitution rank pretty highly, myself.

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    But they're not crimes if you legalize them.

  • Homple||

    These aren't crimes if the President does them.

    So there.

  • mtrueman||

    "I think the censorship, beatings and imprisonment of political rivals, seizure of private property and businesses, funnelling stolen money....rank pretty highly, myself."

    I agree with you. But these crimes usually do not rank highly enough to get attention here at Reason or other American publications. When was the last time you saw condemnations here of the president of Kazakhstan? Thanks to his non independent foreign policy and wealth redistribution in favour of the rich, I'd say never. The crimes you are exercised over are fairly banal.

    We are not being asked to contemplate Chavez´s legacy because of the squalid record you sketch out here. It's the big stuff I'm talking about that draws attention from the American press.

  • ||

    I agree with you. But these crimes usually do not rank highly enough to get attention here at Reason or other American publications.

    So you've never read Reason?

    When was the last time you saw condemnations here of the president of Kazakhstan? Thanks to his non independent foreign policy and wealth redistribution in favour of the rich, I'd say never.

    Or maybe it's because Kazakhstan is tiny, in the middle of nowhere, and has no effect on national politics?

    We are not being asked to contemplate Chavez´s legacy because of the squalid record you sketch out here. It's the big stuff I'm talking about that draws attention from the American press.

    No, you're retarded.

  • mtrueman||

    I have read Reason, Kazakhstan is not tiny, it's in the middle of Eurasia, not nowhere, and it's only one example of a regime that fits the bill of crime ThatSkepticGuy has provided us.

    Chavez's biggest offenses were to follow an independent foreign policy and redistribute wealth in favour of the poor. The death of a censoring, opposition member imprisoning autocrat is not going to be followed up in Reason with handwringing over his Legacy. That only comes with the crimes that I`ve taken the trouble to point out.

  • ||

    Sorry dude, you're still retarded.

  • mtrueman||

    "you're still retarded"

    You have a point. Our little exchange has left me no wiser. You, on the other hand, have learned something. Of Kazakhstan, its size and location, the real crimes of Chavez, and the difference between a liberal and a radical.

    I'd like to see you parlay this new learning into a intelligent comment. I'll drop by in 24 hours to see what if anything you can come up with. Good luck. Don't strain yourself.

  • ||

    The death of a censoring, opposition member imprisoning autocrat is not going to be followed up in Reason with handwringing over his Legacy.

    The legacy of most censoring, opposition member imprisoning autocrats who don't happen to be Marxist heroes of the comfortably-upper-class "revolutionary" American left isn't usually in dispute, so no there's no cause for debate. The reason Chavez's crimes need mentioning is because they are being papered over by a sympathetic press and academia full of latter-day Lincoln Steffens willing to overlook a few dead bodies on the road to the glorious future.

    Not that picking on Chavez just because he's a Marxist cunt would even be a bad thing, but that's not why Reason has been focusing on the debate surrounding his "legacy". In case you haven't noticed, Reason is pretty sympathetic to a Chavezian "independent foreign policy", where I guess "independent" is a stand-in for "not sympathetic to the United States". You really are retarded.

  • mtrueman||

    "The reason Chavez's crimes need mentioning is because they are being papered over by a sympathetic press and academia"

    I thought I was mentioning the crimes that others dare not mention. I don't see these crimes of his papered over in the press. That's where I learned of them. I'm too retarded for writing aimed at academia, so you got me there.

    If readers of Reason are sympathetic towards Chavez's independent foreign policy, I'd like to see some proof of that. Perhaps in the comments there is some sympathy and admiration expressed for Chavez's foreign policy. I've just seen antagonism. If you've seen support of Chavez's foreign policy in these pages, please point it out to me.

    You appear to agree with me that Chavez's biggest crime was his redistribution of wealth to favour the poor. Yet other commenters seem to disagree with me, unnecessarily pointing out that he censored his opponents, or that Venezuela barely benefited from the Latin American Renaissance.

    If the goal here is to battle with the American Left over the legacy of Chavez, this so far is pretty shabby. Have the courage to claim as your own his foreign policy, and reject on principle his policies which redistribute income to the poor.

  • Irish||

    Or the fact that 'redistributing wealth in favor of the poor' actually resulted in the highest levels of inflation in South America, caused the homicide rate to triple in 12 years, collapsed oil production and actually resulted in Venezuela having lower economic growth than the rest of South America.

    Thanks to Chavez, Venezuela was the only country to barely benefit from a South American renaissance. Chile had higher economic growth, more sustainable economic growth, lower inflation and the lowest homicide rate in the region, all while adhering to the values of 'liberal democracy' that you seem to think we should get rid of in favor of a democratically elected dictator.

    You're an idiot, aren't you, mtrueman?

  • Cytotoxic||

    Trolls be trolling and you be trolled.

  • ||

    0/10

  • mtrueman||

    "all while adhering to the values of 'liberal democracy' that you seem to think we should get rid of in favor of a democratically elected dictator."

    Chavez never claimed to be a liberal. I understand how this offends American sensibilities. And what ´we´ think is all very interesting but it was the people of Venezuela who had the final say.

  • ||

    Chavez was a Marxist, therefore he was a liberal.

  • mtrueman||

    Liberals believe in divided powers, independent judiciary, a free press and so on. I don't get the impression Chavez believed in any of these things. I don't think you've thought this through, and are simply repeating platitudes here.

  • sloopyinca||

    Agreed. He's more of a progressive than a liberal.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Chavez's foreign policy may have been anti-America, but it was certainly not independent. Venezuela under Chavez funneled enormous amounts of money into Cuba for the "benefit" of being taught how to be more like that country, and China has made exactly the kinds of deals with Venezuela wrt oil that the US is often criticized for.

  • mtrueman||

    The author here names the following nations for Chavez shamefully having relations with:

    the dictatorships of Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia, North Korea, Zimbabwe, and Belarus

    These are all countries that try to maintain some degree of foreign policy independence. You name two, Cuba and China, that didn't make it onto the list. Cuba, I figure, is an oversight. But China, is that still considered a respectable trading partner for a country like Venezuela?

  • ||

    Yes, in fact Venezuela held its gold stocks in Chinese banks, along with Russian and Brazilian banks. They were huge political and economic allies.

  • mtrueman||

    I thought it was weird that Chavez relations with North Korea, Zimbabwe and Belarus, which all must have been rather minimal, deserved a mention, while relations with China are completely ignored.

    Especially seeing as how the author is guided more by a vision of American Nationalism than any Libertarian principles. A country like Venezuela being a huge political and economic ally of China should be more noteworthy than Zimbabwe or North Korea.

  • ||

    HERP DERP

  • ||

    On the other hand, the fact that those other countries are economically and politically isolated and run by totalitarian autocrats might have been of interest since the topic of the piece was whether or not Chavez was an autocrat?

    It could be that you're so busy shoveling shit for a Marxist cunt that you misread American Nationalism (let's capitalize that unnecessarily - I think it makes it much more convincing!) where none actually existed. Settle down, have a coke, read some Chomsky, and feel better.

  • mtrueman||

    "run by totalitarian autocrats might have been of interest"

    It's very interesting, but I was just observing that China is run by autocrats of the communist party variety, and doesn't merit somehow an inclusion in the list of undesirable countries which maintain relations with Venezuela. This despite the fact that China's political and economic ties with Venezuela far outweigh those of Zimbabwe for example.

    Sherlock Holmes spoke of the dog that didn't bark giving him the key information he needed. I don't think ignoring China here is key to anything important, but does warrant a mention.

    You may be right in American Nationalism not playing a role here. I doubt reading Chomsky will be of much use, either.

  • A Serious Man||

    Forget basketball, A Fistful of Dollars is on TCM.

  • Ted S.||

    Says the man who posted an hour and fifteen minutes into the movie.

    (Personally, I preferred the Torchy Blane movies that TCM has been running. Glenda Farrell is a hoot.)

  • ||

    You don't have the DVD?

  • Ted S.||

    The Torchy Blane movies aren't on DVD. :-)

  • A Serious Man||

    My mule don't like people laughing.

  • Fluffy||

    So why don't you go ahead and apologize to my mule?

    Top 10 best opening scene of a film, easy.

  • Sevo||

    "Was Chavez an authoritarian thug?"
    Yes.
    Damn, I wish they were all this easy.

  • Mr. Weebles||

    Good afternoon, Reasonites.

    While we're mourning the passing of Comrade Chavez, I'd ask you all to join me in mourning another great loss: My bracket in the Reason Hit & Run Superdrone tourney.

    I'd also like to offer a hale and hearty fuck you to Pittsburgh, UCLA, Kansas State and New Mexico.

    Thank you.

  • sloopyinca||

    You are not alone.

  • Mr. Weebles||

    I appreciate your support in this difficult time.

  • Ted S.||

    You shouldn't have let your hatred of Michigan make you pick against them in the Round of 64.

  • Ted S.||

    I thought this was the college basketball-free thread.

    Poor General Butt Naked.

  • mr simple||

    I can't believe VCU would do to me what they did today. What could possess a group of individuals to be so mean?

  • Professional Target||

    I occasionally eat near VCU campus. What's happened to girls' figures? Even the skinny ones mostly look flabby.

  • sloopyinca||

    Another Richmonder?

    I've still not found any of you that are very familiar with Rare Olde Times.

  • Professional Target||

    I go to Richmond occasionally on business. Rare Olde Times, Irish pub on Pouncey Tract? Drank Ate lunch there before with clients.

  • sloopyinca||

    Rather than list Chavez's crimes, wouldn't it be easier to list the things he did that weren't crimes? I'm pretty sure the list would be a lot shorter.

  • mr simple||

    He did make a mean salsa.

  • hotsy totsy||

    And he danced a mean joropa.

  • Barry Obama||

    He was a generous lover.

  • Sevo||

    "wouldn't it be easier to list the things he did that weren't crimes?"
    Was he the thug that got the trains to run on time?

  • MJGreen||

    Didn't he fall off the stage while dancing one time? That was pretty great. Probably his best moment.

  • Cytotoxic||

    He died in agony and made his 'revolution' into a personality cult wholly dependent on his verve, and so unlikely to survive his aforementioned awesome drawn out death.

  • sloopyinca||

    OT: Just watching the games and that damn Bud Light commercial comes on with the guy and girl on a blind date. Is it just me, or are the advertisers trying to cash in on the whole Lena Dunham look, but with actual decent looking women?

  • Mr. Weebles||

    If they're decent looking, it isn't the "Lena Dunham look."

  • sloopyinca||

    Point taken.

  • A Serious Man||

    The Lena Dunham look: spoiled, entitled, immature and homely.

    Hence the blind date, I guess.

  • ||

    I must be out of touch.. I had to look up who the hell Lena Dunham was...

    And no... not on a dare... she seems to me most likely to super glue your pecker to your stomach... or worse..

  • sloopyinca||

    But, but, but...she's edgy and hip.

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    She has hips?

  • sloopyinca||

    Not really. I imagine her more like Slurms McKenzie.

  • mr simple||

    She does look all partied out.

    Grunka-lunka-derpity-bunham
    You should not look up pictures of Lena Dunham.

  • sloopyinca||

    OK, I just watched the commercial in slo-mo. I was wrong on the Lena Dunham look. I guess it was the short hair and vacant expression.

    I did get a kick out of their "friends" in the cutaway shot. A pair of white dudes and a black guy with a moderately light-skinned hispanic, a white and an asian chick.

    Those assholes at Anheuser Busch. Couldn't they fit a woman wearing a hijab sitting in a wheelchair into the shot?

  • SIV||

    A pair of white dudes and a black guy with a moderately light-skinned hispanic, a white and an asian chick.

    Sounds like a criminal gang profile from 1970s TV. Back before they all had to be white people.

  • Sevo||

    Sloopy,
    The games are bad enough; now we get commercial crit?

  • A Serious Man||

    I personally was struck by the Coke commercial featuring H. Jon Benjamin doing a voice over in his Sterling Archer voice.

    I kept hoping to see the character appear onscreen.

  • sloopyinca||

    I've never seen Archer, so I immediately thought of the cashier at the Mini-Mart on Family guy.

    Same guy?

  • A Serious Man||

    First of all you should definitely give it a look, it's one of the funniest shows on TV period.

    And yeah, he voices the mini-mart guy on Family Guy and has another show, Bob's Burgers, on Fox.

  • mr simple||

    Yes as well as Bob from Bob's Burgers among many others. He has a face for cartoons.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Wait....wasn't that also the name of the burger joint Archer ran when had amenesia?

    *looks it up*

    Yup. Apparently that whole part of the episode is a spoof of Bob's Burgers.

  • sloopyinca||

    Bob's Burgers.

    Quite possibly the worst show on television. It's just so booooooooring.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Never seen it myself, but if the Archer spoof was any indication...yeah, I can see that.

    But Archer is fucking hilarious.

  • SIV||

    It made The Cleveland Show look good.

  • mr simple||

    He was also the son in Dr. Katz and the coach in Home Movies, so he has plenty of history with boring shows. He definitely caught lightning in a bottle with Archer, though. Mos def one of the funniest shows on tv.

  • Irish||

    How does that woman look at all like Lena Dunham? She'd have to gain 30 pounds in awkward places, have her posture devolve, get horrible tattoos and cover herself in a thin sheen of grease in order to look anything like Lena Dunham.

  • sloopyinca||

    I mean the short hair and the big, bug-eyes.

    You know what, fuck you all.

  • Fluffy||

    She looks much more like a hotter Winona Ryder than Lena Dunham.

  • Ted S.||

    As long as none of the ads have that fucking kinetic typography.

  • A Serious Man||

    Ford's India branch really knows how to reach out to the Warty-demographic in its advertising.

  • Irish||

    Slate does a great job of proving that left wing blogs that often deal in politics can only exist if they give mouthbreathing, ADD addled progressives something shallow to read when they get confused or bored by the political or economic articles.

    Other articles in the sidebar on Slate:

    Will Al Pacino Ever Matter Again?

    Is it Legal to Appear in Public Wearing Only Body Paint?

    Six Ways to Avoid the Classic Broken Bottle Scam

    Why Do Gaybros Who Like Sports and Brew Pubs Irritate Fellow Gays?

    Why the Word Cow Doesn't Mean What you Think It Means

    And then there's a Weigel article, which is guaranteed to be awful because it's Weigel.

    This is our opposition, gentlemen. And they are morons.

  • Ted S.||

    Why Do Gaybros Who Like Sports and Brew Pubs Irritate Fellow Gays?

    Why indeed.

  • Fluffy||

    I read the article, and as far as I can tell, the answer is, "Because they remind us how much we actually hate ourselves, and how much shame we feel, even now."

    Yet another situation where the answer is for someone to run up and yell FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING FEELINGS.

  • Irish||

    From my perch by the corner coat pile, I survey the scene: Gay men of an impressive range of age, race, attractiveness, body type, and ball-cap embroidery shake hands and strike up conversations.

    - From the article

    From my perch by the corner coat pile. That's may be the saddest start to a paragraph that I have ever read. People who write for Slate are pathetic human beings.

  • sloopyinca||

    People who write for Slate are pathetic human beings.

    Let's not give them more credit than they deserve, Irish.

  • Irish||

    Best not mock him too much. He might glower at you from the corner coat pile.

  • Cytotoxic||

    'Corner coat pile'...this has to become some kind of quip around here.

  • Xenocles||

    This is our opposition, gentlemen. And they are morons.

    And yet we keep losing to them.

  • Irish||

    Morons will always make up the majority of the population. It's the nature of leviathan.

  • ||

    Didn't you see the left wing war boner article about Syria?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What the fuck happened to Navy's lacrosse program? They're behind by a touchdown in the third quarter, and they're out there wandering around the field playing "catch" like they're sitting on a lead.

  • Fluffy||

    Playing catcher is what squids do well.

  • ||

  • mr simple||

    Hey-oh

  • Xenocles||

    There were all of a hundred mids who cared about lax when I was there, and I think those were the days when we started going far in the tournament.

  • lap83||

    OT, but today's Dilbert comic strip is about Reason commenters

    http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-03-23/

    (not sure whether you guys would be Wally or the robot)

  • Xenocles||

    That's what I would do if I both had my own internet-connected computer and were stupid enough to surf reason on a government computer.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Why the Word Cow Doesn't Mean What you Think It Means

    "Intimidate"

    what do i win?

  • sloopyinca||

    I've not read it, but I always thought it came from the old German word for the noise a cow makes, "cuu".

  • The Late P Brooks||

    GOAL! Colgate 10, Navy 2

    GOAL! Colgate 11, Navy 2

    The Navy goaltender looks like he'd rather be at his girlfriend's parents' house choking down Christmas dinner, right now.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Navy's coach looks like he'd rather be swabbing a deck somewhere far, far away.

  • Sevo||

    Only a little OT, since it involves gov't theft:
    "new laws may not be needed if Cyprus' prospective creditors opt for a "voluntary contribution" from large depositors of as much as a quarter of their savings at the country's largest lender, Bank of Cyprus."
    I know gladly I'd pitch in a quarter of my deposits (after I emptied the account).

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/wor.....z2OOp9h2MZ

  • sloopyinca||

    Am I the only one that trolls comments on sites like that? I wish more of you guys would chime in and enrage those imbeciles.

  • Sevo||

    Sloopy,
    Thought I saw your name there, but I been tossed from that site more times than I've got false-flag accounts to cover.
    Keep it up and I encourage everyone else to, also. The standard lefty population needs correction.

  • sloopyinca||

    You won't get tossed anymore. They've now got a thoughtcrime-like sensor that telly you your comment is offensive before you post it. It will allow you to correct your post and submit it now.

    I got dinged today for using "progtards" and had to correct it to the less-offensive "progressives".

  • Killazontherun||

    I pretty much come here for the purpose of getting away from those type of imbeciles. I only have a limited number of free hours in a day, and down time is for relaxation.

    Sloop, brew season is nearing for me, and my cohort and I have decided to try to advance our skill level by doing clones this year. We'd like to by the end of the run try our hands at clones of SN Big Foot and Dog Fishhead 120, but any recommendations of easier ones to tackle early on?

    For the secondary we will be doing some additions like bourbon soaked cinnamon sticks and mesquite smoked ginger root.

    I'd like to try making a clone of Black&Tan; I built earlier this week (SN Pale Ale, Sam Adam's Cream Stout) at some point. I have a name for it already. Hybrid Vigor!

  • sloopyinca||

    Shit, my brewing skills are far, far inferior to a lot of people on here. I'm gonna defer to them so I can avoid getting reamed for giving bad advice.

    We were thinking about building a still, though. Anybody have any advice on that front?

  • Xenocles||

    Yeah, don't tell anyone about it or the ATF will fuck you.

  • sloopyinca||

    We're just going to use it to distill our own water, duh!

  • Xenocles||

    In all seriousness, though, I had the idea of using one of those immersion circulators as the heat source for a small still - it seems like you could use the exquisite temperature control to separate out the toxins that normally get discarded as the heads and the tails. Just sit for a while at the boiling points for the chemicals that vaporize at lower temperatures, then set it and forget it at ethanol's boiling point.

  • sloopyinca||

    then set it and forget it

    What the fuck?!?!?!?!

    /Ron Popeil

  • Xenocles||

    You heard me. NB: I've never tried this idea.

  • sloopyinca||

    Nevermind. You missed my (poor) Ron Popeil joke.

  • Xenocles||

    Oh, no - I was just owning the reference.

  • mr simple||

    Wasn't he the inventor of Mr. Microphone, the spray-on toupee and, of course, the technology to keephumanheadsalive injars. But wait, there's more...

  • sloopyinca||

    Yes he was. He also came up with the "And if you act now, we'll include a second one for free. You'll just pay shipping and handling!"

  • mr simple||

    They're showing a dodgeball tourney of Fox Sports Ohio. It's actually more boring than it sounds.

  • sloopyinca||

    Milwaukee is fucked.

    And by "Milwaukee," I mean the taxpayers of Milwaukee. My guess is that the police will continue acting like they're the fucking Crips.

  • wwhorton||

    This kind of shit really pisses me off, and not for just the obvious reasons. So far this year I can think of at least three stories in the news where a city cop somewhere used his position to commit a felony like murder or rape, but there isn't a "police crisis" in the media because these are isolated events, statistical outliers. But, you've got the CT and CO shootings, and they represent a horrifying tidal wave of gun violence. Never mind the fact that rapist cops justify the 2nd Amendment, if we're looking at probability, you're much more likely to be fucked (literally or figuratively) by a cop abusing his/her position, possibly to your own demise, than you are to be involved in a mass shooting.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    OT: unnamed Reason editor makes appearance in IRS internal video.

  • ||

    Unnamed Reason editor?

  • JeremyR||

    Looks like Nick minus the Jacket

  • John C. Randolph||

    Was Chavez an authoritarian thug?

    I prefer the term "Commie Rat Bastard". It covers so much more than the thuggery.

    -jcr

  • np||

    Russian Tycoon Found Dead (in London)
    A police investigation has been launched into the death of the 67-year-old - a wanted man in Russia, and an opponent of President Vladimir Putin.

    So, Russia has low flat taxes depending on structure, with some room for choice: 6% on revenue or 13% on profits.

    Some people have seen it as somewhat a black sheep for investment and doing business. Jim Rogers has had a change of heart and has decided to invest in Russia. I've read stories about a hard life and dealing with bureaucrats, which necessitates slipping in cash here and there. But what would you do? Is it worth the risk?

  • Mike M.||

    Bad move. The Cold War is being restarted right before our eyes. Invest in Russia at your own risk.

  • SIV||

    GAY CAPTAIN KIRK! Turnabout Intruder is on TeeVee.

  • mr simple||

    Tournament update:
    Cardinals are playing like champions.
    Oregon is doing all they can to ruin my brackets.
    Gonzaga is showing they should not have been a 1 seed.

  • mr simple||

    Btw I had Oregon out in the first round.

  • sloopyinca||

    We should go back to the "judge resigns" thread from last night to talk b-ball.

  • mr simple||

    Cool.

  • Sevo||

    mr simple| 3.23.13 @ 9:24PM |#
    "Tournament update:"

    I parred the 4th and really would have only bogied the 8th if my tee shot hadn't gone left.
    The chip out of the bunker was tough...
    Uh, I'm sure you're interested in this, right?

  • mr simple||

    If you're not interested, don't read it. It's not like I'm in the room with you dominating the conversation so you can't talk with others. Other people here like talking about it.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Sevo hated everyone, mr simple.

    And Butler blew a 10 pt lead and looks finished now.

  • sloopyinca||

    You mean the Butler team that's up by 2?

    You fucking dope.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Quit sniffing my ass, sloop.

    Each time I post you show up.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, I haven't posted all day until you got here.

    Don't think you're something you're not. You mean less to me than the pile of dogshit I ran over with a lawnmower earlier today.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Why so hostile?

  • sloopyinca||

    Because you're a useless cunt troll that serves no purpose other than to waste oxygen.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Fuck you. I have been here a lot longer than you have while supporting the liberty movement.

  • sloopyinca||

    TL/DR: derpity derp

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Supporting, subverting, whatever.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug| 3.23.13 @ 10:04PM |#
    "Sevo hated everyone, mr simple."

    Poor, poor dipshit. Everyone hates dipshit. Poor poor dipshit. Go fuck your dad. dipshit.
    Oh, and mr simple, it's interesting to find a read a thread and find at least some of the posts related to the subject.
    Still asking: Would you like to hear about my golf round? It's VERY interesting.

  • Almanian!||

    Go on....

  • Barry Obama||

    Yes, go on. We're all ears.

  • Sevo||

    Hey, I got close to par on 8, but the wind came up and blew the ball off to the right. You know how the right side is on 8, right?
    Well I used a 5 and sort of tried to chip...

  • sloopyinca||

    That #8 is a real lollapalooza. Some say use a mashie. Others say use a niblick. I say go with the mashie and come in low.

  • Ted S.||

    How to Break 90

    Unfortunately, I can't find it on Youtube. :-(

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Sevo, the nutjobs at Free Republic want you back.

    Jim Rob, the owner who is on welfare - says so.

  • ||

    Dude, you need to get back to the White House for the night. Obama's ass isn't gonna plug itself, OB.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug| 3.23.13 @ 10:42PM |#
    "Sevo, the nutjobs at Free Republic want you back."

    Dipshit, no one wants you back. Go fuck your daddy.

  • mr simple||

    If gou want to tell the story, I'll listen. Btw, is Dick's a good place to get clubs? I'm looking to get back into the game.

    Half the reason I made that post is to annoy the people that annoys. I have a habit of continuing to push buttons that I think are silly buttons. I regularly scroll past conversations I'm not interested in or people arguing with trolls. I find it irrational to complain about it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Do you have a Golf Galaxy near where you live? If so, go there. Otherwise, Dicks can be a good place.

  • mr simple||

    Looks like we do, thanks for the tip.

  • Sevo||

    "Half the reason I made that post is to annoy the people that annoys"

    Terrific! I hope boring stories of missed golf shots annoy you.

  • mr simple||

    Well, you haven't told one yet.

    Whatever, I ain't mad. Life is too short for that.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Otherwise, Dicks can be a good place.

    Fuck Dick's. Those shitheads not only stopped selling rifles after Newtown, they also refused to honor sales on rifles they had already made. I hope those cuntweasels go out of business.

  • ||

    I'll bet they are regretting that decision right now.

    But yeah, fuck them. I won't set foot in the place.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Oh yeah; I hope whoever made that decision looked at all the sales they missed out on and jumped off a tall building. If they were smart they'd fire that guy, reinstate sales and grovel abjectly in hopes of getting some customers back.

  • sloopyinca||

    Dick's still sells their full range of rifles here in California. Where the hell did they stop selling them?

    This may make me rethink ever going to Dick's again, but I had not heard of them stopping gun sales anywhere, so forgive me.

  • mr simple||

    I hadn't heard that either. They definitely had rifles on the wall when I went there maybe a month ago here in Ky.

  • Ted S.||

    The New Jersey Devils won again, although the Florida Panthers are thugs.

    The 29 Boring Teams are probably unhappy that Brodeur is back from injury, though.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Zags just blew a lead. The will tighten up and lose like Butler did.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yep, Shocker just went up 62-61. It is over.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Thugs win another one.

  • sloopyinca||

    Hahaha. Your ignorance idiocy in politics is only eclipsed by your ignorance of basketball.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I don't give a fuck about BB until the 64 sudden death march.

    Which I admit is pretty damn entertaining.

    Why are you such an asshole?

  • sloopyinca||

    Why are you such an asshole?

    Because it gets you so worked up.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Me worked up?

    Really, what do you think I care about? I don't give a fuck if Obama himself snips the fucking feeding tube of every Medicare recipient out there.

    I care that markets function well, secularism wins, and that people are free to pursue science and reason. So I like Obama for the past four years.

  • ||

    Obama, the patron saint of Pluggerism, can do no wrong. He even scores a 93% on the Pluggertarian purity test!

  • mr simple||

    It is fun, isn't it?

  • Xenocles||

    Bracket = blown.

    Well, even more blown, anyway.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Look, you idiots. I don't claim that Obama is a libertarian - he is far from one.

    He is just simply better than the GOP fools are.

    NCLB.
    Patriot Act.
    McCain-Feingold.
    Iraq War.
    DHS/TSA.
    TARP.
    Medicare Part D.

    All the handiwork of the GOP. Punish those assholes and hit the fuckers in the head with a brick.

  • Xenocles||

    NCLB - co-written by Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
    McCain-Feingold - co-written by Russ Feingold (D-WI)

    As for the rest, most if not all of it started with bipartisan support. Also, most people here only support a few individual Republicans, not the whole party, if at all. So nobody cares if Obama is "better" than some shitty alternative.

  • Jordan||

    Which item on that list does Obama not support?

  • A Secret Band of Robbers||

    Virtually everyone here hates the GOP's guts. Hell, even John dislikes the GOP more than he likes it.

    Just because of a few people here voted for the GOP as the winner of the bariatric clinic's swimsuit contest, that doesn't mean they think she's a babe.

  • sloopyinca||

    NCLB - co-written by Ted Kennedy (D-MA)
    McCain-Feingold - co-written by Russ Feingold (D-WI)

    Patriot Act: renewed and expanded under Obama.
    Iraq War: Obama tried to expand but is ending it on Bush's timetable.
    DHS/TSA: expanded authority under Obama.
    TARP: continued and expanded under Obama
    Medicare Part D: continued under Obama (without an effort to end it).

    They all suck. Why can't you understand our views on both Teams?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Because Democrats could NEVER START THIS SHIT ON THEIR OWN!

  • ||

    And neither could the Reps. No reason to suck Dem dick.

  • ||

    Obama must love having someone that fits in his ass so snugly.

  • sloopyinca||

    Obama must love having someone that fits in his ass so snugly.

    Can't you guys leave Reggie Love out of this? The man never did anything to you!

  • ||

    OB is Reggie Love? I thought he was Wiegel? Unless you're saying they're the same guy.

  • Jordan||

    Obama managed to start extrajudicial killings on his own. What an improvement!

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Don't sell them short. They did Obamacare all by their little selves.

  • SIV||

    Signing CFR was W's most (or only) impeachable offense. He clearly stated he believed it to be unconstitutional yet signed it anyway. How could anyone say that is not a gross violation of the oath of office?

  • sloopyinca||

    IMO, it was definitely an impeachable offense. But so was Gitmo and the Patriot Act.

    GWB will end up as a skidmark on the underpants of American politics. Obama will be the chunk of turd that never lets go of the anus that is Washington.

  • Sevo||

    Palin's Buttplug| 3.23.13 @ 11:20PM |#
    "Look, you idiots. I don't claim that Obama is a libertarian - he is far from one.
    He is just simply better than the GOP fools are."

    Look, dipshit, you're full of it:
    Obozocare.
    Nuff said. Go fuck your daddy.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    This new Craig Ferguson special on Netflix is grand.
    "You can make fun of two groups of people. Nazi's and Canadians"

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    where did that apostrophe come from?
    They must have a union.

  • Bingo||

    WTF Gonzaga, my bracket is a victim of a terrorist attack. Where is Janet Napolitano when you need him?

  • sloopyinca||

    Where is Janet Napolitano when you need him?

    He's manning a rapescanner at IAD hoping that a 11 year old girl's parents opt her out.

  • SIV||

    OT: (heh)

    I'd suggest no one ever shop at BestBuy.

    I'd strongly suggest you never buy a Toshibia "Canvio" portable hard drive. If you ignore this DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES try to use the "NTI Backup EZ" or whatever the fuck it's called software.

  • mr simple||

    I'd recommend newegg.com. They have a better selection and much cheaper prices.

  • SIV||

    I can't walk in to a "Newegg" 2 miles from my house. I needed a HD immediately.

  • Cytotoxic||

    So what happened?

    And what do you recommend for an HD flatscreen?

  • np||

    He meant hard drive

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Best Buy is an excellent showroom for the stuff I buy on Newegg or Amazon.

  • ||

    FUCK GONZAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

  • SumpTump||

    Wow thats dude was like totally cool! I had no idea man.

    www.Anon-Today.tk

  • susan321||

    my classmate's mom makes $66/hr on the laptop. She has been without work for seven months but last month her payment was $14354 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Go to this web site and read more
    http;//JUMP30.COM

  • susan321||

    up to I saw the check 4 $5133, I did not believe that my neighbour was actually taking home money part time on their laptop.. there mums best friend haz done this 4 less than thirteen months and recently paid for the depts on there place and got a brand new Ford. read more at,
    http://JUMP30.COM

  • Chadwick||

    like Vincent implied I'm in shock that a mom able to make $6936 in 1 month on the computer. have you seen this site link http://www.wow92.com

  • triclops||

    to the lefty statists, centralization of power by a leftist is never bad, no matter the collateral damage.

  • strassnerjordan||

    like Marvin implied I cant believe that a mother able to earn $8413 in 4 weeks on the computer. have you read this web link http://www.fly38.com

  • aaliyahjuhan||

    Tristan. I just agree... Alexander`s blurb is nice, last week I bought themselves a Porsche 911 sincee geting a check for $8987 thiss month and more than ten-grand last month. with-out any question its the most comfortable job I have ever had. I began this 5 months ago and almost straight away began to bring home minimum $81.. p/h. I went to this site,
    http://jump30.com

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