Three Predictions for Obama's America

Will the next president be a game-changer or agent of the awful status quo?

Arguably the most nauseating development during Election 2008 (which, thankfully and so unlike Election 2000, actually ended when it was supposed to, on Election Day) was the rise to ubiquity of the term game-changer, a phrase that, as far as I can tell (and I admittedly haven't really called my secret contacts at the Oxford English Dictionary on this one), hit the big time only when applied to the creation of even more types of toothpaste coming out of consumer-products giant Procter & Gamble.

Was Sarah Palin a game-changer (yes, definitely, maybe even a double game-changer, first by putting McCain back in the race and then by dragging him down like a sorefooted sled dog in a Jack London short story turned real-life tragedy)? Was the final presidential debate a game-changer (no, though nobody can remember a damn thing about it)? Was something CNN yapped about at some point or another a game-changer (no)? Was the economic crisis a game-changer? The bailout package? The initial failure to pass the bailout? The unanticipated but thoroughly convincing equation of John McCain with the Penquin from the old Batman TV show? Game-changer, game-changer, game-changer, not a game-changer (but should have been one). At times, it seemed as if Election 2008 was, I don't know, nothing less than a perfect storm of game-changers. Or not.

But now that's all over with and we must ask the question: Will President Obama be a, coff-coff, game-changer?

His fans certainly believe so, attributing to the junior senator from the Land of Lincoln all manner of supernatural powers. He will, we can rest assured, singlehandedly make Iran, whose president literally exhausted himself hating on the Great Satan, and every other country in the world, bless these United States once again. He will raise average wages, either through passing pro-union legislation such as "Card Check" or through sheer force of personality. He'll make a beer that really does taste great and is less filling. He'll resolve that great epistemological conundrum that haunted Dr. Johnson and Bishop Berkeley's correspondence: Is Razzles a gum or a candy?

Barack Obama's foes—excuse me, Barack Hussein Obama's foes—ascribe to him the same Superduperman-like abilities but worry that the guy will be kryptonite to the American nation, the American Dream, the American economy, and more. In Obama's America, they fret, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright will be the official chaplain of the United States and married gay men will be aborting late-term fetuses with the same abandon they once displayed in the bath houses of pre-AIDS San Francisco. The banks will be even more nationalized and we'll stop nation-building in oil-rich parts of the ancient world and instead send our boys to keep the peace in Darfur and the Congo.

So what's it gonna be? We'll find out soon enough. In the meantime, here are three predictions for life in Obama's America:

1. America's political and pundit class will go through a clinical bout of ideological amnesia that will be dizzying and appalling for those of us with memories of life before January 2009.

This happens virtually every time a new president, and certainly a new party, takes unified control of the government. On a host of issues—including government spending, regulation, and especially foreign policy—you can expect to see Republican officeholders and their champions in the press rediscover their inner-small-government souls and rail about how Obama and the Democrats are budget-busting socialists desperate to start what vice-presidential candidate Bob Dole once declaimed as "Democrat wars."

On the flip side, expect Democrats to start rattling sabers like the did under the Mad-Bomber-in-Chief Bill Clinton, who was quite happy to dispatch planes and bombs wherever and whenever he felt necessary or threatened by a domestic situation. Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright is the template here of what reason's Matt Welch identified as "temporary doves," that is, folks whose taste for war is highly dependent on party affiliation.

Obama, who is certainly something of a "stealth candidate" (to use an election-night phrase from Fox News' and NPR's Juan Williams), has never been shy about asserting his bellicosity. He's against "stupid" wars, don't you know, which gives him plenty of latitude to prosecute what he considers smart ones (and conflicts necessary to prove that he's no George McGovern). And here's a Canadian dollar that says that Obama's withdrawal plan from Iraq is precisely the one recommended by Gen. Petraeus.

Similarly, he will almost certainly follow the domestic policy trajectory of one George W. Bush by increasing spending (he's already promised that today we spend, tomorrow we scrimp), increasing regulation, and increasing interventions large and small into the economy. The main difference will be that all this new stuff comes at the end of the Bush bender. And that Obama and his defenders will swear that they are radically changing course from the past eight years when in fact they will continue in the same grim direction, full speed ahead, Mr. Emanuel.

Obama's conservative and Republican Party detractors will animate the corpse of Ronald Reagan and weep many crocodile tears about the end of the free enterprise system that they somehow missed out on during the GOP turn at the helm. Bailouts that were "reluctantly and sadly" necessary under Bush, to use Newt Gingrich's phrase (hilariously uttered mere hours before the House GOP scuttled the plan), will be unendurable socialist slights under Obama. At least the second half of that statement will be true.

Oh, and all that liberal fretting over the singular abuse of executive power, domestic surveillance, and the like, under Bush-Cheney? That's going to disappear faster than the Lackawanna Six, regardless of what Obama does (and don't expect him to renounce any of Bush's power grabs once he's sworn into office). If the topic resurfaces (and it will), look for conservatives to have their knickers in a twist this time around.

2. The Culture Wars will be reignited and, as always, the main casualties will be children, the truth, gays, and that evilest excresence of capitalism since novels, nickelodeons, and comic books: video games. And Obama, like Bill Clinton, will be far more conservative on this sort of thing than anybody on either side wants to admit.

I'd say Sarah Palin's smartest public moment came during the vice-presidential debate when she and Joe Biden wrassled over gay marriage. Biden ducked and weaved and talked a long-winded game about equality and fairness and all that sort of crap—and then he had to admit that he doesn't support allowing gays and lesbians to get married like the rest of us:

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  • TallDave||

    I think it's great the way Barack is changing the stock market, helping the little guy by making stocks more affordable.

  • Tim Cavanaugh||

    Eh, wasn't the whole game-changer question answered when Obama picked the most vile human being ever to walk upright as his chief of staff?

  • ||

    Eh, wasn't the whole game-changer question answered when Obama picked the most vile human being ever to walk upright as his chief of staff?

    I would think it was answered quite handily when he chose for his VP the scumbag who coined the term "drug czar".

  • ||

    Aw, man, they're letting Spitzer off!

    I blame Obama.

  • ||

    The stock market has always had a blip up the day after presidential elections. The stock market hates uncertainty, and with the election a bunch of people who were holding off their buys will finally make them. But Wednesday was very different. Investors may vote for Change, but it scares the shit out of them when it comes to their retirement portfolio.

  • Michelle Obama||

    For only the second time in my adult life, I am proud of my country.

  • ||

    Isn't an increase in the capital gains tax something that Obama has publicly said he was going to push? Great idea in a recession. I wonder if that will be part of the "aggressive agenda" he and the Congressional Democrats are supposed to be cooking up?

  • ||

    God, kiss up to Obama again Reason!

    ...

    IN THE TANK!!!11

  • ||

    My prediction: Jimmy Carter II. A highly touted but ineffectual president presiding over a period of malaise following a troubled Republican administration.

  • MALAISE FOREVER||

    "Jimmy Carter? He's history's greatest monster!"

  • ||

    flygate,

    Followed up in 2012 with President Penn and Vice President Teller. Or is it the other way around?

    Even without their libertarian credentials, that would be so full of awesome.

  • SIV||

    I predict "Bush nostalgia".

  • SIV||

    Yup,I was right.

  • TallDave||

    Pro,

    Finally, a VP candidate who wouldn't make any gaffes.

  • MAX HATS||

    I think it's great the way Barack is changing the stock market, helping the little guy by making stocks more affordable.



    Dumb in the tits.

  • ||

    To me, "game-changer" will always mean the QB throwing a pick-six at the worst possible moment.

  • libertarian democrat||

    Obama still seems like an improvement over McCain, but I would imagine a rough 4+ years.

  • ||

    Now that the Dems are in power, expect to see a series of thumb sucking pieces over the next few months from major media people about how Bush was treated unfairly, how perhaps the President has to make hard choices and isn't responsible for everything. Just like you saw the piece in the NYT on Monday on how there are (gasp) terrorists at GUITMO and it is not really Auschwitz, expect to see pieces on how data mining is a really complex issue and not eavesdropping and how the US presence in Iraq is really doing some good things. Most off all expect to see a raft of articles on how patriotism is good and how everyone should respect the office of the President and how hard it is to be President. Dissent will not longer be the highest form of Patriotism. The one up shot of this will be as Obama adopts many of Bush's policies regarding the war on terror, you can expect to see Bush's legacy to be re-examined and for talking heads to say with a straight face "well no one ever accused Bush of not effectively fighting the war on terror." Good luck resisting the urge to vomit when it happens.

  • ||

    Wow, this thread is stupid. The Dow-Jones? Are you kidding me?

    The Dow has gone from 13,000 to 7000 over the past seven years. It has been lurching and and down by hundreds of points a day for the past month or so - but all of a sudden, when it has another drop, we're supposed to believe it was caused by, what, the wholly-unpredicted Obama victory that nobody on Wall Street saw coming?

    I guess this is what political junkies do when they're cut off cold turkey, without even cabinet speculation to sustain them.

  • ||

    "Eh, wasn't the whole game-changer question answered when Obama picked the most vile human being ever to walk upright as his chief of staff"

    Didn't he do that to deal with his own party in Congress?

  • ||

    Joe,

    Obama is now President elect, it is his problem and responsibility. He needs to have a press conference and figure out some way to calm the markets.

  • ||

    Sure, John, but causation? Barack Obama caused the markets to drop?

    That's the type of thing that makes you wonder if the writer still draws some of his letters backwards.

  • ||

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a9Oq499c._cA&refer=worldwide

    Worst two day slump in 21 years. I think that is more than just the usual rise and fall, even in this market.

  • ||

    "Worst...in...years" certainly is usual, in this market.

  • ||

    "Sure, John, but causation? Barack Obama caused the markets to drop?"


    I don't know honestly. But he could help the markets by coming out and saying that he will veto any taxes that are raised above the Clinton era rates, is going to appoint Volker or someone like that to treasury, and has no plans to re-negotiate trade deals. That would bring the market right back.

  • ||

    I remember when conservatives used to make fun of people who attributed magical powers to Barack Obama.

  • BDB||

    I await Guy Montag to come in and talk about the "Obama depression" when two weeks ago he was talking about how great the economy was, and how the media was blowing it of proportion.

    That should be fun!

  • ||

    """I think it's great the way Barack is changing the stock market, helping the little guy by making stocks more affordable."""

    That's been Bush's doing. He has a similar approach to immigration. He's trying to make the dollar lower than the Peso so the Mexicans will move back.

  • ||

    Uh, yeah, that'll work. Because the primary driver of the stock market, particularly in a financial crisis, is public policy. And especially pronouncements about public policy.

  • libertarian democrat||

    If the market was seriously responding to the election (and people know that happens, I for one did not) than it should have been obvious to sell in advance. It's not like there was any doubt that Obama was going to win.

  • ||

    That Chiodos song title lingers with me; "I didn't say I was powerful, I said I was a wizard"

  • Mike M.||

    My prediction: Jimmy Carter II. A highly touted but ineffectual president presiding over a period of malaise following a troubled Republican administration.

    Only this time, instead of just a bunch American hostages, the crazy religious Iranians get a nuclear bomb. And won't that be a hoot.

  • ||

    "I remember when conservatives used to make fun of people who attributed magical powers to Barack Obama."


    There is nothing magic about saying "no I am not raising taxes through the roof regardless of what Nancy Pelosi wants, I am honoring our commitments to free trade and here is a list of known, respected people that I am appointing to Tresury and Commerce.

  • ||

    The fear of an increase in the capital gains tax is real. Whether it's causing this particular drop is another issue, but I expect some sell offs in anticipation of such changes to the tax code.

  • ||

    """Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks slid, sending the market to its biggest two-day slump since 1987, after jobless claims jumped and the shrinking economy crushed earnings at companies from Blackstone Group Inc. to News Corp. """

    John's link attributes the cause and it's not Obama.

  • ||

    "Uh, yeah, that'll work. Because the primary driver of the stock market, particularly in a financial crisis, is public policy. And especially pronouncements about public policy."

    Yes because prices are driven partially by predictions about the future. Right now a lot of people are concerned about the Obama administration's potential stands on trade and taxes and are taking account that risk. Both the Chinese and Europeans have expressed worries about the future of our trading relationship with them. Those things cause markets to fall and for investors to be nervous. One of the jobs of a President is to provide predictable policies for investors and to calm fears. Obama can do that by coming out and reassuring people that he is not abnormally high tax or anti-trade.

  • ||

    There were still some Dems and Repubs that believe in the free market that voted against the bailout. It's the defining (fiscal) legislative moment of the last 30 years or so (right along with NAFTA), and I have some hope that their ideas will prevail, sooner or later. A little, anyway.

  • ||

    There is something magical about thinking that the stock market rises and falls based on statements about tax policy.

    When the stock market collapse began, John McCain was winning, while talking about further tax cuts.

    But I'm supposed to believe that the reason it continues to fall now is because of people who own stock looking at their massive 2008 capital gains and worrying about taxes?

  • Doug||

    Obama's America -> It's Bush's Obama's fault.

  • ||

    Meh. The Dow drop is explained, to some degree, by some bad real news. Still, this is a hell of a drop to be accounted for entirely by the real news, although I do think the Obama discount had been priced in to some degree before Tuesday.

    I wouldn't expect to see a lot of upward movement under the Obama administration. Things like carbon taxes, cap-and-trade, higher capital gains taxes, higher income taxes, etc. have a way of depressing the market. Even when they are only credibly threatened, and not actually passed inot law yet.

    Seriously, has Obama said one thing that could be construed as investor-friendly? That would make anyone want to put their capital at risk?

  • ||

    "John's link attributes the cause and it's not Obama."

    I am not saying he caused it. I am saying what he can do to help the situation.

  • ||

    I want to play poker with you, John.

    Just promise me you'll never go into the financial services field.

  • Nigel Watt||

    joe, instead of addressing your right-wing counterparts in hackery, you want to disagree with anything in the article?

  • ||

    "Seriously, has Obama said one thing that could be construed as investor-friendly? That would make anyone want to put their capital at risk?'

    He hasn't. But he can't afford to go four years with the stock market in the tank. It is pretty hard to reconcile anti-carbon policies and renegotiating trade deals with a recovery in the stock market. Of course if he jettisons those provisions and becomes another Clinton Administration, the stock market will come back, but there is going to be a lot of really disapointed people on the Left. He can pick his poison I guess, lets hope it is to be Clinton and take his lumps from the left.

  • Nigel Watt||

    Also, since I'm planning on starting a business when I finish school in 2010, Ireland is looking better and better.

  • BDB||

    So how many comparisons of Obama to Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin have happened today?

  • ||

    R C,

    Still, this is a hell of a drop to be accounted for entirely by the real news

    The Dow has been overshooting back and forth for weeks. Big drops followed by big gains followed by profit-taking-generated drops.

    But the next time we see it overshoot upwards, you know what you're not going to see? Me, proclaiming "Woo-hoo, Obama made the stock market go up!"

    Because that just wouldn't be a reality-based thing to do.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    "Will Barack Obama be a game-changer in American life when he takes office in January?"

    Absolutely.

    When he gets through redistibuting the wealth, all we'll be left with is pocket change.

  • Nigel Watt||

    joe, article? Anything about it?

  • ||

    "I want to play poker with you, John.

    Just promise me you'll never go into the financial services field."

    What are you talking about JOe? Do you think it is good for people to wonder what government policy is going to be? I don't. Regardless of what the policy is, certainty is always better than uncertainty. You can price for certainty. You can't for uncertainty and the market over-corrects assuming the worst case scenerio. I think part, but not all, of what is driving this sell down is uncertainty over just what the hell he is going to do. Obama could help the situation by assuring people that no, despite what McCain said, he is not a socialist and has no intentions of raising taxes beyond their Clinton era rates and is not going to engage in a round of protectionism.

  • ||

    Tell you what Nigel: you provide a list of topics for me to comment on, and when I post a comment, I'll email you.

  • Nigel Watt||

    Pretty sure Nick already gave you a list. You've been telling us how good Obama is, now surely you don't want us to believe all those things Nick said, right?

  • Paul||

    dragging him down like a sorefooted sled dog in a Jack London short story turned real-life tragedy)?



    Slow down, there, cowboy. You're referencing yourself into a corner.

  • ||

    The economy is in big trouble and EVERY SINGLE THING Obama wants to do will make it much much worse. Best case scenario: Republican Congress swept in in 2010 due to inflation and unemployment both above 12%, DOW 5,000 +/- 1k.

  • MAX HATS||

    For a group that believes in the wisdom of the markets, there sure is a lot of looking down on the market's wisdom here. (No one expected Obama to win. We're doomed. Sell! SELL!!)

    And now the president elect is singularly responsible for the stock market, and must immediately make a press conference (??) to fix it. What?

    I knew once he won there'd be a lot of reaching to blame him for things, but I had no idea it would be this fast or this delusional.

  • ||

    joe, the market doesn't trade in "now" terms. Obama's victory had been priced into the market for some time. Rumor, prediction, and hearsay rule the market.

    I'm sure the market "knew" Obama would win the election for some time.

  • ||

    Some reassurances from either Obama or Bush probably would help. But they would lose in an assurances vs actual data game. Which is what's happening now.

    When the President comes out and talks about how fucked we are, it's going to drop big time. The way the feds came out talking dooms day was making me think they were shorting the market.

  • Bingo||

    Or the markets are dropping because we are fucked and going into a Depression even if Reagan's re-animated corpse was elected President.

  • BDB||

    "I knew once he won there'd be a lot of reaching to blame him for things, but I had no idea it would be this fast or this delusional."

    I did. Less than forty-eight hours since the election, and Republicans are eating the furniture. Yeah, that'll work guys!

    Why don't you take Jeff Flake's advice instead?

  • ||

    "And now the president elect is singularly responsible for the stock market, and must immediately make a press conference (??) to fix it. What?"

    The President is responsible for giving clear direction and indication of what policy is going to be. It is not called the bully pulpit for nothing. The stock market continueing to nose dive is a real problem. The issue is not whether Obama is responsible for it. The issue is what can he do to try to help the situation. The things I am saying is what he can do to help the situation. Does he "fix the market"? No. But that doesn't mean that he is powerless and can't do something to help the market.

  • ||

    I am not right wing.. I think Obama should announce he will investigate Bush for war crimes in knowingly approving of Abu Grahb torture and then threatening the lower ranking goons...he should also advocat a full investigation of the insider trading involved in huge put options bought on Ameican Airlines by "Buzzy" Krongards firm(CIA connected).

    That said it is obvious that the largest two day collapse of the market since 1987 is due to the obma election and the new info coming out about his marxist cabinent members.

    "Marxism...it's bad for the stock market" and it don't take a financial services employee to figure that out.

  • Seward||

    I thought the article was great myself.

  • ||

    "I did. Less than forty-eight hours since the election, and Republicans are eating the furniture. Yeah, that'll work guys!"

    Yeah saying that Obama should appoint someone the market respects like Volker or Sumners to Treasury and reassure people that he is not anti-trade and is not going to enact crazy tax rates is really eating the furniture.

  • ||

    "I think Obama should announce he will investigate Bush for war crimes in knowingly approving of Abu Grahb torture and then threatening the lower ranking goons."

    Abu Garib was morons from Pennsylvania. The waterboarding, all three of them, and the like happened in Bagram and in CIA detention facilities. If you are going to be a wingnut at least get the story straight.

  • ||

    when obama says "you guys are not going to be happy with my decisions, but I hope you'll still sick with me"....and then he starts appointing national service black shirt goons...it is reasonable to expect bad things are coming.

    If he disagrees he could hold a press conference explaining how all of his policies will be good for the economy...reasonable economist would back him up if his ideas are semi-reasonable and plenty of folks would reprot on his press conference...he won't do this because he know his ideas are not good for the economy.

  • ||

    The article was well written and thought provoking. There is one problem though; it made me sad.

    Gillespie, you set me up to do a glorious hope and change dance only to let me down. I care fuckall about the markets right now (as they've already let me down) but to tell me that I'm not actually getting a pony?


    You're a mean dude, Nick.

  • Warty||

    I've been sending the article to my Obama-worshiping friends. They are not amused.

  • ||

    I relate Obama's situation to Bush 41. Both entered the Whitehouse after record spending and low taxes. The negative fiscal pressure on Bush was so great he had to break his "read my lips" pledge to not raise taxes. I don't think Bush wanted to, he HAD to.

    I'm predicting that the negative fiscal pressure is just as bad if not worse for Obama. He will not be able to afford many of his dream programs and he will have no choice to raise taxes, because of what Bush 43 spent.

    Prior to the election, I have said this will be a one term president. I still believe that. Reagan doomed it for Bush 41, Bush 42 doomed it for Obama.

    Of course the right will blame Obama for having to pay the tab Bush created.

  • Ben||

    If Obama does the rattle the sabers it will be funny to watch conservatives rally around the country (as they put patriotism over politics) and the moderate Dems who are the "temporary doves" applaud them. That will leave the radical left who supported the guy out in the cold.

  • BDB||

    John I wasn't speaking about you. I was speaking more about TallDave and Friends. But I don't think there is much Obama could do at this point. Rubin and Volker are already his chief economic advisers, and everyone knows that. The only person I heard mentioned as a possible Treasury Sec. besides those two is Corzine. Are any of them leftist nuts? Not really.

  • Paul||

    Obama administration will somehow seemed miffed by attacks on gay marriage yet do nothing about ending marital discrimination against same-sex couples.



    I'm thinking something along the lines of "don't ask, dont tell..." but at the altar.

  • MAX HATS||

    I thought the president was in charge, and not the president elect?

    And how are St. Reagan's own tax rates suddenly crazy? Going back to those is socialism, if not worse, according to the right wing. Not approving every single trade agreement is "anti-trade." It's a sign of how far right the right has traveled that the policies espoused just by them just a decade ago have been rebranded as somehow dangerously left wing. Enjoy your time in the wilderness, boys. I sure will.

  • BDB||

    He has also said for a long, long time that tax rates won't go beyond Clinton levels. You can believe him or not believe him, but that is his statement on the matter and all we have to go on right now.

  • KenK||

    In Barack Obama's America it won't be about blue or red, it will be all about the green - just like the election. Mr. Chicago Machine Goes to Washington - now playing.

    I predict he will raise at least a billion dollars for his re-election campaign, fundraising is one Emanuel's big claims to fame.

  • ||

    Abu Ghraib was torture...they sent Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, to prison and higher ups engaged in coverup and lies about their own approval.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

    are these facts wingnut? I don't think so.

  • ||

    "And here's a Canadian dollar that says that Obama's withdrawal plan from Iraq is precisely the one recommended by Gen. Petraeus."


    You mean he is not going to stop this illegal war? You mean we are going to have more blood for oil? Continue the occupation? I am shocked!! Shocked!!

  • Bingo||

    BDB: Jeff Flake is the only sane Republican left. Unfortunately, the GOP base just wants more social conservatism in response to the election.

  • ||

    Gabe

    """Nov. 6 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks slid, sending the market to its biggest two-day slump since 1987, after jobless claims jumped and the shrinking economy crushed earnings at companies from Blackstone Group Inc. to News Corp. """

    You have to be a hater to ignore what the pros say to justify your own belief.

  • BDB||

    Bingo:

    I pray to God flake runs for McCain's Senate seat in 2012 and brings sanity back to the GOP. I might actually vote Republican then.

  • BDB||

    Should be 2010, not 2012.

  • ||

    "Abu Ghraib was torture...they sent Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, to prison and higher ups engaged in coverup and lies about their own approval."

    Yes dumb ass, but it was a single group of perverts. It wasn't like they were under orders from Cheney. The systematic "aggressive interrogation" or torture that you would like to get Bush and Cheney for happened in other places not ABu Garhib.

    Like I said, if you are going to be a wingnut, at least know what happened.

  • ||

    Aw, man, they're letting Spitzer off!



    Fuck! So much for equal justice under the law.* One of my better rants follows -
    J sub D | March 11, 2008, 1:28pm | #

    Hypcritically, I am of only one mind. Fuck that moralistic asshole. I want the prosecutor to reach deep into the prosecutorial bag of evil tricks and pile up the charges. Conspiracy, money laundering, RICO, solicitation, aiding and abetting, the whole ball of wax. I want his life destroyed. I want him in proson. I want him registered as a sex offender. I want him disbarred. I want him taking piss tests while his parole officer looks on. I want the hammer of the state that he worships so much, that teat he has been sucking for decade, to come down on him like a cartoon safe.

    Then we repeal all of the prostitution laws.



    ♪When you wish upon a star,
    Sometimes you get effin' ignored♪

    * I know, I know. Never has been that way, ain't never gonna happen.

  • ||

    Fuckin' steamroller.

  • ||

    But the hookers are going down for it and Spitzer walks free. I guess that US attorney decided he wanted to keep his job under Obama. They should have fried that fucker.

  • ||

    One thing positive that will come out of an Obama presidency will be that Republicans will suddenly become fiscal conservatives again (and hopefully, filibuster their asses off in the Senate). Sure, it will be hypocritical as hell, but I'll take it.

  • ||

    yes bush is still in charge...most here have complained bitterly about him for at least the last 4 years...he has been a failure. Obama has indicated he will extend the failure and the amrkets are falling....and we know enough to know that Obama will not fix any of the police state/warmongering/irresponsible big government growth that Bush has advocated the last 8 years.


    there are exceptions as a handful of folks here were ok with neo-con foreign policy and a handful favored socilist stuff...but most people here really do dislike republicans and democrats and we have been in the wilderness a lon long time MAX HATS. We are just disappointed to see the educational inroads made with some of the left who correctly hated bush are now going to be duped into worshipping the state again.

  • ||

    Obama: you're going to be disappointed


    With that tagline in mind, I'm geared up and ready to rock the next four years. I'll start by earning as muhc income as I can before the tax cuts fly away. Next, I'll get switched to a dead-end project and get laid off. Finally, ride the gravy-train.

    what does a gravy train sound like you ask?



    HopenchanginHopenchangin WOO! WOO!

  • ||

    Harumph. Methinks it's time to draft another Whore Critic article for Eliot. Fuckin' steamrolling asshole.

    Or, maybe Spitzer will be our next Attorney General? Why not? Obama has a mandate! To do anything!

  • Paul||

    Rahm Emanuel, huh? Co-author of the book:

    The Plan: Big Ideas for America

    Ahem...

    Idealism is based on big ideas. And, as anybody who has ever been asked "What's the big idea?" knows, most big ideas are bad ones.

    --P.J. O'Rourke

  • ||

    John, I'm agreeing with you mostly, but it was recently outted that the sexual shit was approved by the higher ups and was practiced in almost all detention facilities ran by the military or CIA.

  • Elemenope||

    MAX HATS summed up my feelings on the matter pretty completely.

    The only thing I'll add is that Obama is still two months out from actually being president and affecting policy-making. The idea that the market is responding to this event as opposed to more proximate and relevant indicators is pretty silly.

  • Paul||

    Wow:

    "Emanuel was so angry at the president's enemies that he stood up at a celebratory dinner with colleagues from the campaign, grabbed a steak knife and began rattling off a list of betrayers, shouting 'Dead! ... Dead! ... Dead!' and plunging the knife into the table after every name.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel

    So, Emanuel isn't particularly partisan or anything.

  • sage||

    Hey, c'mon. Mao-bama wants to spread teh wealth around. The markets are just doing that for him with the huge selloff. We should be thanking him.

  • Don the libertarian Democrat||

    1) He will ease immigration restrictions and help pass an immigration bill allowing people to stay here.
    2) The deficit and debt will both go down.
    3) Drug laws will be eased.

    There will be many more libertarian Democrats.

    Book it, Dan-O.

  • ||

    I can't think of a President that's been elected in my lifetime that wasn't a disappointment for some reason or another. I really doubt Obama will be the first.

  • Paul||

    The only thing I'll add is that Obama is still two months out from actually being president and affecting policy-making.

    But I was to understand that Obama merely 'lay hands' on the problem, and the affliction would pass.

  • ||

    John,
    Seymour Hersh disagrees with your opinion. If he was lying he'd be sued for writing the articles he has written in major media outlets. That justifies a investigation in my mind. The fact that they won't put in a real investigation AND they won't prosecute Seymour Hesh indicates Seymour Hersh is telling the truth.

    Seymour M. Hersh, "The Gray Zone. How a secret Pentagon program came to Abu Ghraib," The New Yorker, May 24, 2004 (Issue); posted May 15, 2004.
    "The roots of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal lie not in the criminal inclinations of a few Army reservists but in a decision, approved last year by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, to expand a highly secret operation, which had been focussed on the hunt for Al Qaeda, to the interrogation of prisoners in Iraq. Rumsfeld's decision embittered the American intelligence community, damaged the effectiveness of élite combat units, and hurt America's prospects in the war on terror.
    "According to interviews with several past and present American intelligence officials, the Pentagon's operation, known inside the intelligence community by several code words, including Copper Green, encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in an effort to generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq. A senior CIA official, in confirming the details of this account last week, said that the operation stemmed from Rumsfeld's long-standing desire to wrest control of America's clandestine and paramilitary operations from the CIA."
    Also see:
    Bob Schieffer, Face the Nation (Transcript) with Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Armed Services Committee, Senator Carl Levin (D-MI), Ranking Member Armed Services Committee, and Seymour Hersh, The New Yorker Magazine, May 16, 2004.
    Eschaton Blogspot, May 17, 2004: "Billmon, Froomkin, and Joshua Micah Marshall all parse the Pentagon's non-denials ("Statement" from Department of Defense Spokesperson Mr. Lawrence Di Rita) about Hersh." Marshall comments: "This is not a denial of anything. It's a classic non-denial denial -- a bunch of aggressive phrases strung together to sound like a denial without actually denying anything."
    Hersh's ground-breaking article on the Abu Ghraib story.
    Jeremy Pelofsky, "Rumsfeld Approved Iraq Interrogation Plan-Report," Reuters, May 15, 2004.
    "Report: Rumsfeld approved operation that led to Iraqi prisoner abuse," AP, May 15, 2004.

  • Boston||

    What the fuck does Spitzer have to do with Obama?

  • Paul||

    3) Drug laws will be eased.

    Mmm, No.

  • BDB||

    "Boston | November 6, 2008, 5:31pm | #
    What the fuck does Spitzer have to do with Obama?"

    They're both Democrats. And probably Fascists*.

    *Joking about the last part, but a lot of people wouldn't be.

  • ||

    The print and broadcast media love affair with Obama ends Jan. 20 2009. Tis will be a good thing.

    OTOH, I will take it easy on the guy just like I've been understanding and forgiving of George W. Bush's sometimes slightly objectioable policies.

    Stock market correlation to the election is ~zip point shit.

  • Lester Hunt||

    National service, in other words make work, is just what the Demos did last time. By which I mean "last time they tried to remedy a depression and only made it last longer."

  • ||

    Gabe,

    I am personal friends with several of the Attorneys who defended Lindy England and her boyfriend. They offered both of them lienency if they would come out and testify agains their superiors. Their defense attorneys woodsheded them to death trying to get something, anything on a high ranking officer in order to get their clients lighter sentences. They never were able to get anything and both of them fried. Hersh is a known liar and an idiot and lying here.

  • ||

    Methinks it's time to draft another Whore Critic article for Eliot. Fuckin' steamrolling asshole.

    ProL, as much as I hoped otherwise, I knew in my heart that he would get off (ha!). He is too connected, too wealthy, and he's part of the club--he was a prosecutor himself. Nope, no way he was getting charged.

    But his career is ruined, and for a power-hungry asshole like him, that's a brutal punishment. I love it.

  • Boston||

    Jesus, these kids are like Walter man. "Well there isn't a literal connection."

    http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=11403

  • ||

    "They should have fried that fucker."

    For soliciting a prostitute? Jesus John, you are a right wing nut.

    Does anyone know what John thought should be done to Scooter Libby?

  • Paul||

    The print and broadcast media love affair with Obama ends Jan. 20 2009. Tis will be a good thing.

    I respectfully disagree. It will continue for at least two years after his inauguration. Anything that goes wrong will simply be placed on the previous administration, senate and congress.

  • Nigel Watt||

    Paul, don't forget "the corporations".

  • ||

    I'd like to know if it's acceptable, after all the years I saw it on the cars of Retarded-Americans, for me to put a "Not My President" sticker on.

  • ||

    "They should have fried that fucker."

    For soliciting a prostitute? Jesus John, you are a right wing nut.

    Does anyone know what John thought should be done to Scooter Libby?"

    Spitzer is one of the worst human beings ever to serve the public in this country. He fried and ruined the reputations of any number of innocent people. He committed a crime and they caught him. He should have been convicted, had it on his record, had to do a perp walk in cuffs in front of the media, and spent at least a few days in the can. That would have been a fair punishment.

  • BDB||

    I agree with John Spitzer is a hypocritical asshole, and from what I hear completely power-mad. I can't believe he got off.

  • ||

    TAO
    It doesn't suprise me much that you'd be more upset by an Obama yet to govern than W's eight years of misrule and giant dump on liberty. He leans the "right" way for you I'd think...

    Oh, I hear Sarah is free if you want to follow up on your crush.

  • ||

    So John, what about Scooter Libby?

    Eh?

    Methinks I smell a stinky partisan fish.

    "He fried and ruined the reputations of any number of innocent people."

    He did? Did these people not have defense attorneys? Were they tried in Panama?

  • BDB||

    CED, you can post as MNG again. You don't have to use that ridiculous handle for 28 days. Two days was fun enough.

  • shrike||

    Just like there are no atheists in foxholes - there are no free-market fundamentalists in a Republican Depression.

    Its the credit contraction caused by loose fiscal (Bush) and monetary (Greenspan) policy which fueled artificial "growth" in order to re-elect Bush the Lesser.

    But who cares? The aborto-freaks wanted another "Originalist" and the Bushpigs wanted to conquer the Middle East! Fuck the US!


    The remnants of the GOP are now beginning to rip themself into new shards - and Palin is the intellectual heiress to you good ole boys left in the New South!

    Good riddance - GOP. I just hope something worthwhile springs up out of the pile of shit Left Behind.

  • Paul||

    Paul, don't forget "the corporations".

    True, but that never changes.

    What's going to be knee-slapping hilarity, is that the Dems will be rushing to give the corporations money. Just like the Republicans did-- except we expected that behaviour from them.

  • ||

    It doesn't suprise me much that you'd be more upset by an Obama yet to govern than W's eight years of misrule and giant dump on liberty.

    Did I say that? I just want to see what the 180-degree bullshit spin would be for the Left if people on the Right started getting Obama Derangement Syndrome.

  • ||

    The idea that the market is responding to this event as opposed to more proximate and relevant indicators is pretty silly.

    I think we can all agree that had the market moved the other direction with the same magnitude, you'd be able to hear the hosannas all the way back to Grant Park.

  • Ashley Dupree||

    "I can't believe he got off."

    I ain't paid 3 large an hour for nothing, you know.

  • ||

    Just to clarify, if I had to rank, GWB would definitely be in the top 5 "worst".

    The problem is, is that the rest of the list is populated by Democrats.

  • BDB||

    No one will top James Buchanan in terms of shitty Presidents.

  • ||

    So, I'll sit here patiently and wait for the Crow-Eating Dumbass to apologize for jumping all over me for nothing.

  • rhywun||

    I find the notion of the market dropping in reaction to Obama's election to be entirely credible. The market swings wildly all the time in reaction to the slightest things.

  • Boston||

    JW,

    That might be true, though hopefully they would be mercilessly ridiculed as well.

  • ||

    No one will top James Buchanan in terms of shitty Presidents.

    Probably not. But ya gotta admit, GWB gave it the ol' college try.

  • ||

    All I can say is that I'm going to relish the first year of the Obamacy.

    "Here's your pony."

    1 year later...

    "Whaddya mean he's going to cost me $10,000 annually to feed and stable him? And who's going to clean up all this horse shit?"

  • ||

    Ok, TAO, sorry. It just seems to me you've got a lot more Obama hate going on than W hate. And that seems nuts to me.

    As for the left wing president hate after W won, certainly you remember the "Day 2 of America Under Siege" stuff youre good pal Limbaugh ran after Clinton's election? And hell, he at least won a majority of the popular vote!

  • ||

    And hell, he at least won a majority of the popular vote!

    Nope. The largest vote, but no majority.

    Clinton 44,909,806 43.01%
    Bush 39,104,550 37.45%
    Perot 19,743,821 18.91%

  • BDB||

    CED--

    You will be happy to know Virgil Goode went down in flames today. Thank God.

  • ||

    Markets are responding to fundamentals. The world is entering in (or is in) a recession and earning are going down. Thus stock prices follow. About 6 months before things start to turn aroudn stocks will start to go back up.

    It's the same all the time.

  • Elemenope||

    No one will top James Buchanan in terms of shitty Presidents.

    Gotta disagree here. In my mind, an effective asshole is worse than an ineffectual asshole. Hence, Jackson, Wilson, and Bush the Lesser all beat out Buchanan on the "worst presidents ever" list.

  • BDB||

    Gotta agree with you about Jackson, Wilson, and Bush II. But really, who can top the record of leaving the country in a state of Civil War?

  • ||

    JW-I meant he won more votes than the people he beat, poor choice of words.

    As for bad Presidents:
    Mckinley can rot in Hell imo. An imperialist and friend of plutocrats.

    Goode was officially declared the loser today? Holy shit that's great.

    What about that that Drake woman?

  • BDB||

    CED--

    Yeah. Drake went down in flames, too, to an even greater extent. Obama's coat tails lifted her opponent to an entirely unexpected victory.

  • BDB||

    The VA Congressional Delegation is now (barely) majority Democrat.

  • ||

    BDB
    I just checked the Google News and they have the Goode-Whoeverheis race as still going through the counting of provisional ballots.

    I assume Davis and Wolfe won. They are pretty moderate GOPers though.

  • BDB||

    CED--

    Provisional ballots are all that is left. They favor Democrats, and Perillo has a 832 vote lead. They've counted all the military absentees. The race is over.

  • BDB||

    Wolf won and I like Wolf.

    Davis retired. A Democrat picked up his seat, Gerry Connolly. Connolly is a real asshole, though. Like Jim Moran.

  • ||

    Oh, Jim Moran is my kind of asshole though.

    Do you think the GOP in the Gen. Assembly will resist Kaine when he comes in and asks for taxes for the NOVA roads after this spanking? That dude from Salem who runs the House is incredibly inflexible....

  • ||

    Wolf has done some good bipartisan work for religious liberty overseas.

    VA now has a Dem Gov, two Dem Senators and a majority of Dem Reps...Wow....Wow...

  • BDB||

    You mean Howell?

    He is shitting his pants cause Obama won his district and he is up for re-election in 2009.

    http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2008/11/goodbye-speaker.html

  • ||

    Moynihan,
    No Chavista has done more for communism than your favored neocons. These warmongering/straussian socialist took over a small government party and have managed to turn our economy into a USSR planners dream...while simultaneuosly smearing the name of capitalism in the blood of millions of iraqis and maintaining a 50 year isolationist anti-trade stance agaisnt Cuba to make good and g*ddarned sure that the cubans gain absolutely no understanding of what free trade principles are all about.

  • ||

    Didn't reason have a post this week about how immigration opponents took a beating? But didn't the anti-illegal immigration ballot measure in Arizona kick ass? I think a majority of Americans want to crack down on illegal immigration though they probably 1. simply find other issues more important or 2. don't really think anything will be done about it.

  • ||

    certainly you remember the "Day 2 of America Under Siege" stuff youre good pal Limbaugh ran after Clinton's election?

    Dude, I was nine years old. No, I don't remember it.

  • ||

    John,
    Ok I'll trust that the pullitzer prize winner lied and your friends couldn't find any evidence that they were ordered to torture. Death threats from up high on the lower ranking folks wouldn't be shocking and would explain why they didn't talk, Or systematic filtering of demented people ordered to "take care of prisoners" could also explain the ignorance of the torturers.

    Why did the executives lie about Pat Tillman's death? and then suffer no consequences? I'd love to hear your informed opinion.


    if you believe the word of those people who have no moral problems in needlessly bombing a half million innocent foreigners then you are a more trusting soul than me.

  • ||

    Why did the executives lie about Pat Tillman's death? and then suffer no consequences? I'd love to hear your informed opinion.

    Because friendly fire looks bad. Friendly fire claiming the life of an inspirational figure like Cpl. Tillman is more depressing. If I recall, the officers who covered it up got letters of reprimand, FWIW.

  • ||

    The officers involved with Tillman had their careers ended. One prominent AG Brigadier General pretty much had her career shut down.

  • ||

    Death threats from up high on the lower ranking folks wouldn't be shocking

    That would shock me.

    Truthfully, though, most lower-ranking people hardly ever actually get talked to by anyone higher-ranking than your Co. CDR or 1SG. And when someone with a lot of rank is talking, almost always there are a lot of people there (i.e. if the Brigade CDR is talking, the Battalion CDRs and all their subordinates are probably around).

  • ||

    I will say their was an environment at Abu Ghraib where this sort of thing was permitted. I read a story where a soldier complained to his chain of command about not wanting to partake in the abuse and they offered him a transfer (rather than apparently correcting the abuses).

  • Lefiti||

    Fuck, Libertopia seems to be getting further and further out of reach. Donate now!

  • ||

    2 Years After Soldier's Death, Family's Battle Is With Army

    NYT
    By MONICA DAVEY and ERIC SCHMITT
    ...
    "I could hit that house with a rock," Mr. Tillman said. "You can see every last detail on that place, everything, and you're telling me they couldn't see Pat?"

    Mr. Tillman, 51, is a grieving father who has refused to give up on his son. While fiercely shunning the public spotlight that has followed Cpl. Pat Tillman's death, Mr. Tillman has spent untold hours considering the Army's measurements, like the 70 yards.

    He has drafted long, sometimes raw, letters to military leaders, demanding answers about the shooting. And he has studied - and challenged - Army PowerPoint presentations meant to explain how his son, who had called out his own name and waved his arms, wound up dead anyway, shot three times in the head by his own unit, which said it had mistaken him for the enemy.

    "All I asked for is what happened to my son, and it has been lie after lie after lie," said Mr. Tillman, explaining that he believed the matter should remain "between me and the military" but that he had grown too troubled to keep silent.

  • ||

    TAO
    After Clinton won Limbaugh would start his radio show with sirens and declare that day "Day ___" of "America Under Siege."

    The "Don't Blame Me I Voted For" stickers started with "Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bush" (the elder) after Clinton won.

    You mean to tell me you who so stood up for Limbaugh that time were'nt even listening to the guy in his heyday? Man, that was ballsy buddy...

  • ||

    After the shooting, the Rangers destroyed evidence that would be considered critical in any criminal case, the records show. They burned Corporal Tillman's uniform and his body armor.

    Months later, the Rangers involved said they did not intend to destroy evidence. "It was a hygiene issue," one soldier wrote. "They were starting to stink."

    Another soldier involved offered a slightly different take, saying "the uniform and equipment had blood on them and it would stir emotion" that needed to be suppressed until the Rangers finished their work overseas.

    "How could they do that?" Mr. Tillman said. "That makes no sense."

    The family still wants to know, he said, what became of Corporal Tillman's diary. It was never returned to the family, he said.

  • ||

    Stopped in to take a quick look at your moaning and groaning. You gotta suck it up-and it's not easy-I know first hand. But look at it this way, it can't be as bad as the last 8 years.

  • ||

    CED -

    All I've ever said is that Rush is one of the most intelligent commentators on radio and that simplification and vilification of his positions is inappropriate and ignorant.

    I stand by that.

  • ||

    The San Francisco Chronicle article reports "…other Tillman family members are less reluctant to show Tillman's unique character, which was more complex than the public image of a gung-ho patriotic warrior. He started keeping a journal at 16 and continued the practice on the battlefield, writing in it regularly. (His journal was lost immediately after his death.) Mary Tillman said a friend of Pat's even arranged a private meeting with Chomsky, the antiwar author, to take place after his return from Afghanistan - a meeting prevented by his death." In an age of Big Brother, Carnivore and a government that spies more on its own citizens than on terrorists, it seems likely that the Bush administration caught wind of the meeting between Chomsky and Tillman. This situation would almost certainly lead to a massive publicity incident with headlines of "Hero Condemns Iraq War and Bush." This pending disaster for the neocons may have driven them to take extreme measures. Pat Tillman's Special Forces unit split into two groups to try to encircle enemy forces. While it's easy to imagine a poorly trained National Guard unit firing on itself, the Special Forces soldiers spend thousands of hours training and are extremely unlikely to make this mistake. During the incident, in which Tillman was killed, he had called on the radio for the other soldiers to cease fire. The fact that he was shot three times in the head AFTER pleading on the radio for a cease fire is highly suspicious. Whoever shot Tillman was close enough to shoot him in the head, which implies they had a good look at him. The Afghan rebels typically have beards and turbans -quite a contrast from a US army helmet. An assassin could have been laying in wait for Tillman's unit to pass by or may even have been a corrupted member of Tillman's unit. The fact that the neocons lied about Tillman's death when it was first announced to the public, suggests they have something to hide. Were they hiding an embarrassing friendly fire incident or an assassination?


    you guys think our government wouldn't kill it's own? look at Operation Northwoods, the USS Liberty

  • ||

    The "Don't Blame Me I Voted For" stickers started with "Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bush" (the elder) after Clinton won.

    And where did "Not My President" stickers start?

    perhaps I should start manufacturing buttons that say "01.20.12 - End of an Error". That'd be mature and not-trashy at all.

  • ||

    I wasn't there, obviously, but the scenario that the SF Chronicle lays out sounds improbable based on everything I know about squad-based tactics. It's way more likely that he got hit by somebody on another fire team, because I'll agree that it'd be really unlikely that anyone on or close to his fire team's position shot him.

  • ||

    "Obama....last president of the USA, first president of the New World Order"

  • ||

    Does Michelle Obama have wide nipples?

  • ||

    he was murdered dude...you just want to believe your government is good against all evidence to the contrary.

    You probably think that JFK was shot from behind by oswald and his head didn't jerk backward and the back of his head didn't spray all over the back of the car.

  • ||

    he was murdered dude

    Looked back into it. Yeah, he definitely wasn't shot by anyone on his squad. He was apparently hit by sniper fire, which I must say lends credence to your conspiracy theory considering how snipers visually acquire their targets.

    You probably think that JFK was shot from behind by oswald and his head didn't jerk backward and the back of his head didn't spray all over the back of the car.

    Incidentally, when I was at reception at Fort Sill, one of the Drill Sergeants was going on about how the whole JFK thing was a set-up.
    My own views? Definite conspiracy territory. I thought that before Basic. It is my own wish to just keep my head down and stay away from all that sort of shit (black ops snipers and the like).

  • ||

    Limbaugh is a foolish bigot and hypocrite. He has played to racists and racism in general. He has called for people to be punished by the state for things he engaged in himself. He is in no small part responsible for bringing the national discourse to the crappy Hannity level it is in today.

    And he is a fat pussy.

    I stand behind that.

    If you want to take a look at an intelligent and funny man on the right, take a look at P.J. O'Rourke. That guy is hilarious and smart. Worlds between that guy and Limbaugh....

  • ||

    Obama....last president of the USA, first president of the New World Order

    ????

  • Kendall||

    A good article but you made one mistake -Palin was never anything but a net positive for McCain. It was not Palin that drug McCain down, it was McCain being lackluster in debates and simply being wildly outspent and out-volunteered-for by an order of magnitude.

    I still say Palin is the closest thing we'll ever get to a Libertarian candiate. If you look at earler interviews she has had, yes she does not support gay marriage - but SHE SUPPORTS THE IDEA OF COMMUNITY CHOICE. That is the PROFOUND difference between Palin and Biden. That to me is a true Libertarian, able to say they do not like something but willing to let communities do what is best for them.

  • ||

    Looks like the descent into utter unhinged lunacy is unabated by Obama's election.

    But the next time we see it overshoot upwards, you know what you're not going to see? Me, proclaiming "Woo-hoo, Obama made the stock market go up!"

    For a smart guy, joe, you have some bad intellectual habits. Read my post again, this time for comprehension.

    It says the market went down on some bad news, but its hard to attribute every single basis point of the decline to the news, and that maybe the election two days before a decline that outstrips everything else we've seen in this volatile market just might have something to do with election of a President who says lots of things that drive markets down, and nothing move markets up.

    Seems like simple common sense to me.

  • economist||

    MNG,
    You're supposed to be posting as "Crow-Eating Dumbass"!

  • ||

    So see you weren't even watching his crappy 90's tv show where he would play tapes of black congressmen and women while he stood to the side and aped them.

    Or when he was suggesting that the Clintons murdered Vince Foster. Hell, he did that recently.

    I remember how we would have people call up who disagreed with him, and if they started to get the better of him he would cut their mike and play a toilet flushing. Now that's intelligent and courageous radio!

    A big fat pussy.

  • ||

    econ
    I know, caught it next post. Force of habit!

  • GILMORE||

    John | November 6, 2008, 4:54pm | #

    "Uh, yeah, that'll work. Because the primary driver of the stock market, particularly in a financial crisis, is public policy. And especially pronouncements about public policy."

    Yes because prices are driven partially by predictions about the future. Right now a lot of people are concerned about the Obama administration's potential stands on trade and taxes and are taking account that risk. Both the Chinese and Europeans have expressed worries about the future of our trading relationship with them. Those things cause markets to fall and for investors to be nervous. One of the jobs of a President is to provide predictable policies for investors and to calm fears. Obama can do that by coming out and reassuring people that he is not abnormally high tax or anti-trade.


    John,

    I am also named John.

    Are you also a market analyst?

    Assuming the answer is no, I will offer you an observation =

    The leaders of our government up till now have made 'pronouncements' going back to september, with most recent new obligation to bail out Detroit.

    What has happened since september? Fall of about 35-40% in the markets.

    Making promises doesnt do shit when investors know that there are fundamental problems down to the consumer level that will continue to fall until they hit the real bottom (e.g. housing-asset based wealth,discretionary income loss, job bleeding, etc). making some promises about forthcoming relief or giving people guidelines that may change, or be discounted - i.e. baked in - such that they create distortions on current asset values.

    Basically, your theory of President As Market Lever-Puller is bogus and already shown to be mythical popular assumption. Obama's best actions re: the markets to date has been to keep his fucking mouth shut.

    Bush, on the other hand, makes things tank by showing up on TV. Go figure.

  • GILMORE||

    The silliest things I read in the papers every day are the headlines that purport =

    "Markets ________ this much on news of ___________"

    e.g.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/07/business/07markets.html?hp


    in this case, they're actually pretty good at naming something that actually matters (jobs and spending data)

    In most cases, they're on the order of "markets boom on phillies world series victory".

    Meaning, when things are negative, they tend to oversimplify the negative drivers, and when things are positive, they tend to throw whatever recent event happened to be in the news into the pot as some kind of influence.

    Know what makes markets go up?

    liquidity, transparency, and good old fashioned greed.

    Praise them.

  • BDB||

    "I still say Palin is the closest thing we'll ever get to a Libertarian candiate."

    BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

  • BDB||

    Seriously is there a bigger loser in this election than Palin?

    Maybe John Edwards and Rudy 9iul1an1 were bigger losers this year, but that is about it.

  • economist||

    Yeah, John Edwards really is a loser. I mean, he was disgraced by an affair, and the chick wasn't even attractive. If I'm going to have my reputation ruined and be a shit to my dying wife, I'm going to at least get some good nookie out of it.

  • BDB||

    Clinton had that problem, too. Always picking ugly chicks.

    At least Spitzer got a good looking chick.

  • economist||

    BDB,
    "At least Spitzer got a good looking chick."
    Yeah, but he had to pay her out of his own funds, as opposed to government or campaign funds.

  • Hogan||

  • ||

    Maybe Bill picked 'em by their personalities, did you think of that?

    ...on second thought...

  • BDB||

    Funny Hillary is the best looking one. Not that that is saying much.

    It wasn't personality. Bubba is probably the kind of guy that says, "It all feels the same with the lights off!"

  • Seward||

    BDB,

    Of the four candidates from the major parties I think Palin was the most libertarian of them. Perhaps that isn't saying much. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how her career progresses over the next few years. She might be the next Senator from Alaska after all.

  • BDB||

    Maybe she can become a re-elected convicted felon, too!

    Sarah Palin doesn't know what she is. The woman is a dunce. I seriously have zero respect for Alaska after they re-elected a corrupt convicted felon.

  • Seward||

    BDB,

    Perhaps she doesn't, but she seems to be more instinctually libertarian than either McCain, Biden or Obama.

  • Seward||

    BDB,

    Palin probably isn't "book smart," but that hardly makes her a dunce.

  • BDB||

    I don't know, Seward. I know what countries are in North America for Christ's sake.

  • Hogan||

    ...but you're not skeptical of a highly unlikely rumor about a politician?

  • Seward||

    BDB,

    Well, as I recall the issue was what nations are in NAFTA; since the NA refers to North America it could include (for those who don't know) more than merely Mexico, Canada and the U.S.

    Look, I am not suggesting Palin was the most awesome person in the world, I didn't vote for the ticket she was on after all. But she does seem to have some good libertarian instincts and certainly more of those than I have seen out of the other three.

  • BDB||

    "some good libertarian instincts and certainly more of those than I have seen out of the other three."

    Not saying much. And by the time Cheney's aids were done drilling neocon horseshit into her they were probably wiped away.

  • BDB||

    I want Jeff Flake to be the leader of the GOP post-Bush.

  • Barack Obama||

    Who cares if I don't know how many States there are in the USA, I was the editor of The Harverd Law Revue

  • ||

    (Yawn)

  • Hogan||

    by the time Cheney's aids were done drilling neocon horseshit into her they were probably wiped away.

    along with all her t-cells, sadly

  • ||

    along with all her t-cells, sadly

    Oh, shit that was funny! :D

  • ||

    I've said this before. It's one thing to have a guy like Obama and Biden speak hundreds of times in interviews and press conferences and to misspeak. Everyone "misspeaks." But no one suggests that Obama does not actually know how many states are in the Union.

    But Palin spoke very, very little, in usually controlled settings, and yet said many crazy things. She wasn't just misspeaking. She was clueless about the things she said. She seemed incapable of understanding the debate questions she was asked, or phrases like "Achilles Heel" and even when given the chance to correct a misspeaking, like when she told Couric she read "all the papers" and Couric asked for a specific, she would blink and give the dumb answer again. She actually just did not have answers...

    And America could see that.

  • CJ||

    Gillespie is so depressing here. How can he be a libertarian and happily await an Obama presidency that will only further regulate, expand gov't, and reduce personal liberty. I am deeply disappointed in a man I once considered a hero and a role model.

  • ||

    Really, CJ? You don't think Gillespie was being wry at all?

  • Argon||

    But Palin spoke very, very little, in usually controlled settings

    I guess you missed the last month of the election where Palin spoke every day and Biden was kept away from the press.

    The truth is Biden said all kinds of crazy things, and the press simply ignored. In the debate alone, he misidentified the Article which defines the executive and claimed we kicked Hizbollah out of Lebanon,. to name only most glaring errors.

  • ||

    The truth is Biden said all kinds of crazy things, and the press simply ignored.

    When the lefties I work with would get all-a-lathered over "President Palin," I would ask them, so what about President Biden?

    They would just get a blank look in their eyes for a moment and then proceed to (correctly) tell me how unqualified she is. They're so juiced up over Obama that they're willing to overlook this douchebag and hope and pray it never comes to that. Even they know that Biden will soil himself upon the first real crisis.

  • ||

    It seems the smarter, more 'reason'able a person is, the harder it is for him to write a simple declarative sentence. Please Mr. Gillespie, I need a lifeline, here. Are y'uns fer it, or agin it?

  • DannyK||

    Funny thing, I support Obama and I agree with most of what you say here. I figure Obama will address the economy, end the Iraq war, and do something about climate change and oil dependence. If he's lucky, maybe do something about healthcare. That's plenty.

    I figure the Old Republic is pretty much dead anyway, all we can do is root for a good Caesar, a Scipio Africanus to Bush's Nero.

  • ||

    Only 70 odd days until dissent is no longer patriotic, so get your shots in now. (It will then be "divisive." (And eventually, "ununifiying.")

  • ||

    The funny thing is how Palin's own allies (Kathleen Parker, the McCain camp, David Brooks, etc) conceded she was in over her head, while most of Biden's own enemies (such as McCain who knew his serious work in the Senate) conceded he was a bright guy ready for the job. And most of America saw this...

    But some true beleivers you just can't shake...

    To wit:

    "the last month of the election where Palin spoke every day and Biden was kept away from the press"

    See, you overreached here. Us H&R regulars remember the post about when Joe was "muzzled" and it was about a week from the end, not the last month. In fact the famous interview with the Florida station was near the last week, so you're full of shit my friend.

    For the record though, in the time period where the only press contact Palin had was Couric and Gibson Joe Biden did 57 press conferences or interviews. I'm pretty sure Palin never did a press conference (which is known as being quite a bit tougher than any interview).

    What gets me is why do the GOP faithful feel they even have to fight this fight? What is their investment in this silly woman? It already costs them an election. There are plenty of smart GOPers (look at LA governor Jindhal) to bank on that know what an Achilles Heel is and don't need to be sequestered from the press...

  • ||

    I wonder if the market reaction had been the BEST 2 day reaction in 21 years whether the Obama supporters would had claimed credit. Just wondering.

  • ||

    Art-P.O.G. ,

    Well if you research the JFK thing more, you'll see how corrupt our governemnt is. They governemnt didn't bring in Allen Dulles,the CIA head that JFK fired, and John McCloy to lie about the murder just to protect some cubans or some mobsters.

  • ||

    Only 70 odd days until dissent is no longer patriotic, so get your shots in now. (It will then be "divisive." (And eventually, "ununifiying.")

    Hmmm, why does this sound familiar?


    Gabe,

    I just can't stand how opaque the whole thing is.

  • ||

    "They will not let this issue go"

    I find it funny that it is always the proponents of an issue that has repeatedly failed (30 for 30!) at the ballot box who catisgate the other side and angrily implore them to 'just give it up'. Maybe it is the people who are asking for a change that the majority simply doesn't support who should let it go.

    Oh, and Biden is a buffoon.

  • ||

    """Only 70 odd days until dissent is no longer patriotic, so get your shots in now."""

    Dissent became unpatriotic after 9/11.

  • ||

    I think he will "do the right thing" - tax revenue from legal marijuana and cutting spending on the war on marijuana is just way too much of a windfall to avoid especially when his budget is already strapped and he has ideas for much more valuable uses for the money.

  • ||

    Nick has great ideas but is fatally hip in his language. SAY IT SIMPLE.

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