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44 Years of 3-Minute Poems
The kamp konservatism of the Kinks
Ray Davies: Not Like Everybody Else, by Thomas M. Kitts, New York: Routledge, 302 pages, $19.95
When the Kinks recorded The Village Green Preservation Society in 1968, the north London quartet was not trying to create a commercial failure. Quite the opposite. But surely they must have realized that the year of the street riot was not a propitious time to greet the rock world with couplets like "We are the Office Block Persecution Affinity/God save little shops, china cups, and virginity." They sang those lines with genuine enthusiasm, even if it's a sure bet that no one in the band was a virgin at the time.
The song—the sprightly, catchy title track of a nearly perfect album—had been composed by Ray Davies, one of rock's greatest lyricists. It was not a tribute to virginity so much as a tribute to the idea of virginity and of everything else praised in this romantic English anthem: village greens, the George Cross, strawberry jam, draught beer, "the old ways." The record recalls a more rooted existence, but its list of artifacts worth saving draws on pop culture as much as pastoral life: "We are the Sherlock Holmes English Speaking Vernacular/Help save Fu Manchu, Moriarty, and Dracula." There is even a shout-out to Donald Duck, who's about as English as Donald Trump.
The album sold less than 500,000 copies. Four years earlier, the Kinks had been one of the most popular bands in the West, climbing the American and British charts with two brash, loud rock songs, "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night." Indeed, as Thomas M. Kitts points out in this intelligent study, The Kinks "were ranked with the Rolling Stones, both only second to the Beatles." There was an enormous stylistic gap between the quiet nostalgia of Village Green and the Kinks' earlier, noisier explosions of adolescent lust and frustration—and that contrast only begins to hint at the band's range. In their first decade as a recording unit, the Kinks experimented with trad jazz, musical theater, Indian raga, and New Orleans funk. Above all, they delved into the English music-hall tradition, with its vaudevillian showmanship, singalong melodies, working-class sympathies, and epicene moments of burlesque.
The constant thread was a willful refusal to follow pop fashions. The Kinks were happy to set trends: The early singles paved the way for punk rock, heavy metal, and grunge, while the band's later, quieter character studies ("Rosie Won't You Please Come Home," "Two Sisters," "Autumn Almanac") and satires of modern British life ("A Well Respected Man," "Dedicated Follower of Fashion," "Sunny Afternoon") would have a strong impact on other English artists. Yet even when no one was imitating them, the Kinks kept doing their own thing, recording well-crafted but poor-selling LPs like Village Green and, in 1971, Muswell Hillbillies, a jazz and country-flavored concept album about the injustice of urban renewal programs. By the mid-'70s, the band had evolved into a touring troupe that staged Brechtian rock musicals. There were plenty of rock operas in that era, but there was a big gulf between the bombast of Tommy or Jesus Christ, Superstar and Kinksian efforts like Preservation, a witty if tangled three-disc story about a socialist revolution that becomes a puritanical, totalitarian nightmare.
The group took another turn in 1976, when they signed with a new label, Arista, and tried to work within the genres that happened to be popular at the moment, from new wave to metallic hard rock. Davies even dabbled in disco. He was still drawn to the theater, but he generally expressed this interest outside the Kinks (co-writing the musicals Chorus Girls and 80 Days) or channeled it into directing music videos. The band became enormously popular in America again, though not in the UK. For the most part, the Kinks' new records succeeded artistically as well as commercially, at least until they left Arista for MCA in the mid-'80s. In the '90s they finally disbanded. Ray and his brother Dave—the group's lead guitarist and an important architect of its sound—have since enjoyed low-profile but impressive solo careers.
Muswell Hillbillies is my favorite Kinks record, but The Village Green Preservation Society stands out for being so tenaciously removed from its time. Inspired by Dylan Thomas's play Under Milk Wood, the album describes the colorful inhabitants of an unnamed English town. The title track, that toe-tapping ode to Donald Duck and virgins, presents itself as a love letter to the past, but the singer knew very well that the place he was romanticizing wasn't lost so much as imaginary. Kitts quotes Davies' description of the village as "a fantasy world that I can retreat to. ... It was my own Wizard of Oz land."
Davies' other retreat was a very real place: Muswell Hill, the London suburb where he was raised. The heart of the young Davies' world was the front room of his family home. "After the pubs closed at 11:00 pm," Kitts writes, Davies' father "would invite his drinking cronies to join his extended family and children's friends for an after-hours party in what would be the family's overcrowded front room, which, in those largely pre-television days, held the family's old upright piano, the most important piece of furniture in the Davies's home, and a 78 r.p.m. wind-up gramophone." The parties featured rowdy performances of pop hits and music-hall standards, with Davies's father doing a drunken impersonation of Cab Calloway. As Kitts notes, "The influence of these parties on the Kinks, particularly the campy Kinks of the early to mid-1970s, is remarkable. Whether consciously or not, it seemed as if Ray was trying to recreate the Saturday night parties of his family's home—complete with chaos, beer, and singalongs."
In theory, there is a wide gap between the camp aesthetic, with its love of artifice and role-playing, and the traditionalist outlook, with its focus on the permanent things. Yet the Kinks at their campiest were the Kinks at their most rooted. Susan Sontag famously wrote that the camp worldview "sees everything in quotation marks." Davies does too: "Everybody's a dreamer, and everybody's a star/And everybody's in showbiz, it doesn't matter who you are," he sang in "Celluloid Heroes." But usually he's yelling for someone to tear those quotation marks down, even as he suspects that life as a quotation might have its own numb pleasures ("I wish my life was a nonstop Hollywood movie show/A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes/Because celluloid heroes never feel any pain/And celluloid heroes never really die").
Davies—one of the few pop figures with a strong cult following among both gays and conservatives—does not simply combine camp with traditionalism. He is at once the alienated individualist and the communitarian populist, a man who praises both the misfit and the ordinary rituals that everybody enjoys ("I like my football on a Saturday/Roast beef on Sundays, all right/I go to Blackpool for my holidays/Sit in the open sunlight"). Village Green, like Under Milk Wood, wove those strands together by populating Davies's village with eccentrics; by celebrating their individuality, he celebrated their small community as well. Muswell Hillbillies is a darker album, but it takes the same approach, mixing songs about the bizarre characters on Muswell Hill with angry jeremiads at the authorities that bulldoze homes and neighborhoods.
Politically, this outlook translates into an intense distrust both for large corporations and for the state. Like many rock stars, Davies has written songs attacking venal Big Business. Unlike most rock stars, he has written songs attacking domestic government bureaucracies ("I was born in a welfare state/Ruled by bureaucracy/Controlled by civil servants/And people dressed in gray"). And he may, depending on how you interpret Neil Young's "Union Man," be the only rocker ever to devote a song to attacking unions. Davies doesn't dislike organized labor per se, but he had a bad experience with a printers' union in his teens, and in the mid-'60s his band was barred from touring America for several years because the musicians' union refused to issue the required work permits. He retaliated with 1970's "Get Back in Line": "But that union man's got such a hold on me/He's the man who decides if I live or I die, if I starve or I eat/Then he walks up to me and the sun begins to shine/And he walks right back and I know that I've got to get back in the line."
There are several books about the Kinks already, but these are mostly written by rock journalists. Kitts, by contrast, is a professor of literature at St. John's University in New York. He gives Davies's lyrics serious scrutiny without neglecting to consider the ways they are amplified, undercut, or elaborated by the music. He also looks beyond Davies's recorded output to consider the singer's experiments in film, fiction, and theater. I have my occasional disagreements with his conclusions, but that is inevitable. The depth and breadth of the study are worlds away from the typical pop-star biography and more in line with the other academic work Routledge publishes.
That said, one strength of Davies' best work is that it is pop, even when it's resolutely ignoring the rest of the pop universe. "The Village Green Preservation Society" may be the most un-1968 song of 1968. It is also one of the most infectious recordings of the last 40 years. Davies could have been a full-time filmmaker, poet, or novelist; we should be grateful that he chose to do most of his work within the confines of the three-minute pop song instead.
Managing Editor Jesse Walker is the author of Rebels on the Air: An Alternative History of Radio in America (NYU Press). This article originally appeared in The American Conservative.
SIV|3.22.08 @ 8:49AM|#
Davies-one of the few pop figures with a strong cult
following among both gays and conservatives
Like the bastard offspring of Judy Garland and
SSgt Barry Sadler.
Ska|3.22.08 @ 9:07AM|#
Great album, love almost every song, except Phenomenal Cat. Just
can't stand that one for some reason.
It's the poppiest (word?) album I own, but there's something about
it. Very surprised to see something about it at h&R.
Episiarch|3.22.08 @ 9:12AM|#
Jesse, that was the most long-winded load of bullshit* I've seen
in a while. Good job. I assume they pay you by the word.
* just kidding, you know I like your stuff
Pottsy|3.22.08 @ 9:40AM|#
Ska, I'm with you on Phenomenal Cat... I love Village Green otherwise. Of course, there isn't a song on there that can top Waterloo Sunset.
|3.22.08 @ 10:44AM|#
I think it's funny that while the anti-war and hippie movement
completely burned it's self out within the course of 5 years, for
some reason Lawrence Welk, Stan Keaton, and Jim Nabors managed to
stay somewhat relevant throughout the radical times and well
beyond.
I think the lesson here is never underestimate the buying power of
cranky old people.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 10:58AM|#
The record recalls a more rooted existence.......artifacts
worth saving draws on pop culture....
Come
Dancin', my sister always did.
Speaking of hippies, my boy, while shooting hoops, asked me just
yesterday if I was alive when there were hippies.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 11:02AM|#
Oh, and don't forget Gallon of
Gas.
Jesse: Five bucks for your thoughts..........
:-)
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 11:11AM|#
The least 1969 song of 1969?
http://ultimatum.imeem.com/music/fkvNtcMM/the_stooges_1969/
SIV|3.22.08 @ 11:47AM|#
NM,
I woulda thought 1969 to be the most 1969 song for 1969. Ig should
have written a "1973" song for RAW POWER.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 11:51AM|#
SIV,
I woulda thought 1969 to be the most 1969 song for
1969.
Conventional thinking like that is so un-rock-n-roll.
If it were true, then Iggy would have made it into the rock-n-roll
hall of fame before Madonna & Mellencamp.
;)
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 11:57AM|#
Speaking of RAW POWER
"Fuck Authority" seems like the most 1984 or 1984 songs
http://www.rawpowerhc.com/
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=24920356
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 12:00PM|#
Or is this the most 1968 of 1984 albums?
http://homepages.nyu.edu/~cch223/comps/welcometo1984.html
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 12:03PM|#
Nada by Olho Seco...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSoxNHUBfkk
I loved this song in '84.
|3.22.08 @ 12:09PM|#
TWC, Thanks for reminding me of a truly wistful and wonderful
song.
Ray Davies love of simmpler times -
In the hallway, in anticipation,
He didnt know the night would end up in frustration.
He'd end up blowing all his wages for the week
All for a cuddle and a peck on the cheek.
MC5 and the Stooges comments? Just more evidence that Detroit rock
rules!
Munchies|3.22.08 @ 12:17PM|#
One of the best rock albums in history, sadly unappreciated by the larger mass of rock fans. It is without qualification one of the albums that you must hear before the Grim Reaper cometh for you.
Ska|3.22.08 @ 12:18PM|#
I am a WS fan for sure. Saw them at Keyspan Park in Brooklyn -
amazing show, couldn't believe how much sound 2 people could
make.
TV Eye always seemed like a Stooges song with that Orwellian feel
to it.
Munchies|3.22.08 @ 12:35PM|#
One listen to "Dead Leaves and The Dirty Ground" and you should be convinced.
|3.22.08 @ 12:54PM|#
The Kinks, like The Beatles, were heavily
influenced by England's music hall tradition. Hey, the Brill
Building was in Tin Pan Alley.
Oh demon alcohol,
Sad memories I can't recall,
Who thought I would say,
Damn it all and blow it all,
Oh demon alcohol,
Memories I can't recall,
Who thought I would fall a slave to demon alcohol.
Kevin
|3.22.08 @ 1:18PM|#
Does that mean you are a White Stripes fan?
Yep. For such a craptastic city, the Detroit music scene takes a
back seat to no city, styate or region. Dunno why that is, but it
truly is.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:21PM|#
JsubD,
I do believe that Detroit needs to start their own R&R Hall of
Fame given that neither The Stooges, nor the MC5, nor even Ted
Nugent* are inductees in the one in Cleveland.
I don't actually think Ted is in the same league, but he had a
great song or two and sold a lot more records.
|3.22.08 @ 1:23PM|#
What libertarian wouldn't like this Ray Davies snippet?
♫Woke up this morning, what did i see
A big black cloud hanging over me
I switched on the radio and nearly dropped dead
The news was so bad that i fell out of bed
There was a gas strike, oil strike, lorry strike, bread
strike
Got to be a superman to survive
Gas bills, rent bills, tax bills, phone bills
I'm such a wreck but i'm staying alive♫
|3.22.08 @ 1:24PM|#
I saw the White Stripes in concert few years ago worst concert i've ever been to.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:25PM|#
The most libertarian song?
http://www.rhapsody.com/tonyallen6/nepaneverexpectpoweralways
|3.22.08 @ 1:33PM|#
What libertarian wouldn't like this Ray Davies
snippet?
Or this one?
The tax man's taken all my dough,
And left me in my stately home,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
And I can't even sail my yacht,
He's taken everything Ive got,
All I've gots this sunny afternoon.
And it's even got something for the chronic alcoholic:
My girlfriend's run off with my car,
And gone back to her ma and pa,
Telling tales of drunkenness and cruelty.
Now I'm sitting here,
Sipping at my ice cold beer,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
|3.22.08 @ 1:33PM|#
Neu, When the decision to locate the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
in Cleveland (Fuckin' Cleveland? The mind reels)* was made, I knew
it was a harbinger for bad things.
Exhibit 1 - Madonna.
Exhibit 2 - Billy Joel
Exhibit 3 - The Bee Gees (yes folks, the Bee Gees are in the Hall,
Iggy Pop isn't.)
None of these travesties would have happened if the Hall were in
Detroit.
*If I sound bitter, it's only because I am.
For god's sakef fuckin' Cleveland. the mistake by the lake..
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:39PM|#
JsubD,
Of course, even Link Wray isn't even an inductee.
He only introduced a couple of innovations in the
Rock-n-Roll...like, um, the power chord and distortion and guitar
feedback...
And one of the best rock songs ever.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_%28song%29
|3.22.08 @ 1:39PM|#
I used to hate Billy Joel with a vengeance, and it was solely for the line "...and then there is Davy/who is still in the navy" from Piano Man. I dismissed the man's entire catalogue just because of that one lazily written, obvious rhyme.
|3.22.08 @ 1:39PM|#
Iggy Pop should take pride that he's not in the Rock & Roll hall fame considering who is.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:42PM|#
Travis,
He should, but given that he just performed at Madonna's induction
is one of the most profoundly disturbing things I have seen in a
long time.
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/03/iggy_pop.html
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:43PM|#
(I continue)
Given that performance, I am not sure he doesn't feel like he wants
to be part of the crowd.
Ska|3.22.08 @ 1:43PM|#
Yeah, if the stooges get inducted to the rock n roll hall of
fame, only 2 of them can show up, and they have to throw feces at
each other and the attendees.
And David Bowie.
|3.22.08 @ 1:47PM|#
We have rare occurance on Hit & Run this weekend. Agreement.
Ray Davies is a genius.*
* I expect this post will bring out the shameless, brainless
Philistines.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:50PM|#
Hell, they can't even figure out a band to put in that will fill
out that alphabetical list.
Who could fit in that empty slot...who?
Thinking hard.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:50PM|#
The alphabetical list of inductees.
http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/alphabetical-list/
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 1:54PM|#
JsubD,
The Philistines were a pretty decent band from Albuquerque back in
the day.
Jesse Walker|3.22.08 @ 1:56PM|#
Yeah, if the stooges get inducted to the rock n roll hall of
fame, only 2 of them can show up, and they have to throw feces at
each other and the attendees.
And David Bowie.
They have to throw feces at David Bowie, or they have to throw
David Bowie at the attendees?
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 2:41PM|#
The least 1969 song of 1969?
And now The Stooge sold out just like every rocker who said they'd
never sell out.
Iggy, shilling for cruise lines.....
Course, the target audience is more likely to be replacing a hip
joint than going to a hip joint.
|3.22.08 @ 2:45PM|#
For god's sake fuckin' Cleveland. the mistake by the
lake..
....the heart of rock n roll is still beatin' in
Cleveland...
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 2:50PM|#
Never was much for David Blowie or Iggy, a couple of the more obvious songs, but that's about all.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 2:53PM|#
TWC,
I defy you to find an instance of Iggy Pop saying he would never
sell out.
It is, imho, very consistent with his version of the rock-star to
do things entirely for the money.
|3.22.08 @ 2:58PM|#
Iggy Pop should take pride that he's not in the Rock &
Roll hall fame considering who is.
Bet he's proud of this
Rock on Iggy, you counter culture underground rebel!
BakedPenguin|3.22.08 @ 3:03PM|#
TWC - I'm not an Iggy fan, but the fact that his song about heroin is playing over footage of happy families on a cruise amuses me.
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 3:05PM|#
Iggy may not have been inducted to the RR Hall of Fame but he
was there.....singing for Madonna.
http://www.mollygood.com/its-all-for-you-madonna-20080311/
The Wine Commonsewer|3.22.08 @ 3:11PM|#
Baked, I kind of like Lust For Life, and I see the advertising
strategy.
I actually don't care if Iggy sold out --I'm looking at you NM--
just amusing to watch all of the counterculture heroes, cuz, in the
end, they'll take the money.
John Lennon might have imagined no possessions, but he was taking
the Bentley to the recording studio.
It's that old adage, Money Talks, Bullshit Walks.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 3:23PM|#
TWC,
I am with you.
I just think people lump all counter-culture heroes into the same
bag.
I do wish bands that did a great record or 10 Xnumber of years ago
would just be proud of that accomplishment and move on.
Nothing worse than the reunion tour/album...
Yuck.
Firefox User|3.22.08 @ 3:27PM|#
This has nothing to do with the article itself but I found it ironic that when I was reading it that Firefox prevented a pop up about Firefox from opening.
Mike Laursen|3.22.08 @ 3:52PM|#
Great album, love almost every song, except Phenomenal
Cat.
But you see, Phenomenal Cat is the test of whether you are a
true Kinks fan.
|3.22.08 @ 4:13PM|#
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.
Jesse Walker|3.22.08 @ 4:38PM|#
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be
Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.
It achieved this distinction by being released in 1967.
D.A. Ridgely|3.22.08 @ 5:43PM|#
It achieved this distinction by being released in
1967.
Further proof of Dylan's uncanny ability to be ahead of his
time.
Neu Mejican|3.22.08 @ 6:42PM|#
Further proof of Dylan's uncanny ability to be ahead of his
time.
What explains his ability to outlive his usefulness?
|3.22.08 @ 9:33PM|#
The Kinks are one of my all time favorite bands (next to Family
Fodder, Syd Barrett and late-era Talk Talk). Ray Davies is one of
the most brilliant pop songwriters of all time (although I think
they went on a major decline by the 70s as the drugs took over,
just like the Beach Boys, the post-Beatles Beatles, etc.)
From "Lazy Afternoon" (where the government takes all his money and
even his yacht) to "Harry Rag" (in which the government takes all
his money, but he's still content as long as he has enough to get a
cigarette) to the aforementioned songs about unions, the Kinks had
a very strong libertarian streak in a scene that tends to lean to
the socialist Left. (Then again, the Beatles wrote "Taxman" and did
a ton of drugs; thus we could probably make the case that they too
were libertarians too.)
And honestly, "Phenomenal Cat" is better than some of the other
songs in the middle of "Village Green." Twee, but still nice.
"People Take Pictures of Each Other" ("...just to prove that they
really existed") is my favorite on this album.
But "Something Else" is the Kinks' best. "Waterloo Sunset," "Two
Sisters," "Lazy Old Sun," "End Of The Season" and "David Watts" are
some of the best pop songs ever.
|3.22.08 @ 11:05PM|#
Wasn't "Lola," the first song that got non-libertarians, thinking about freedom of choice?
Mike Laursen|3.23.08 @ 2:07AM|#
For the record, the most un-1968 song of 1968 was I'll Be
Your Baby Tonight by Bob Dylan.
Because it was country? Weren't quite a few rock acts dabbling in
country music by 1968? Maybe I'm wrong -- that may have come a
couple of years later.
Looking through a list of the top 100 hits of 1968, one that stands
out is Johnny Nash's "Hold Me Tight". A hit song with a reggae beat
in 1968.
Mike Laursen|3.23.08 @ 2:16AM|#
Wasn't "Lola," the first song that got non-libertarians,
thinking about freedom of choice?
I don't know about that. Maybe the first hit song of the Sixties
that had a gay theme. Although, did it really make any more of a
pro-gay statement than, say, Uncle Milty appearing in drag. And did
your average rock fan even listen to the words?
In the context of the album it appeared on, it was one episode in
the story of a young man being seduced by becoming a rock 'n' roll
star.
|3.23.08 @ 2:47AM|#
Because it was country? Weren't quite a few rock acts
dabbling in country music by 1968? Maybe I'm wrong -- that may have
come a couple of years later.
Yep. The Byrds - Sweetheart of the Rodeo, 1968. And actually before
that in 1967, one from an ex-Byrd, Gene Clark and the Gosdin
Brothers.
some guy|3.23.08 @ 7:36AM|#
Re the Rock 'n' Roll Mausoleum: leave it to Cleveland to pick a dead idiom that ran out of practitioners two decades ago and build a tax-funded exhibit in their honor. It's hilarious that no one thought of the obvious: what happens when we run out?
|3.23.08 @ 9:16AM|#
what happens when we run out?
Nonsense. There are so many glaring omissions:
Joy Division/New Order
Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark
A Flock of Seagulls
Echo and the Bunnymen
Depeche Mode
Kansas
The Smiths/Morrissey
Nirvana
Kate Bush
Deftones
Smashing Pumpkins
Radiohead
Desmond Dekker
The Roots
Roxy Music
Tom Waits
|3.23.08 @ 9:24AM|#
Say Anything
The Pixies
Modest Mouse
The Flaming Lips
The Bad Brains
the Wu-Tang Clan
Devo
Eminem
N.W.A.
Heart
Public Enemy
KRS-One
Neil Diamond
etc.
|3.23.08 @ 9:35AM|#
Barry White
Scott Walker
Vigan Derderian
Cheap Trick
Rob Zombie
Danny Elfman
Tina Turner
Dolores O'Riordan
Yes
...OK I guess I'm done
U2 never should've been inducted before Echo and the Bunnymen,
FWIW
|3.23.08 @ 9:44AM|#
Wait!
Kraftwerk
Outkast
Pet Shop Boys
Lupe Fiasco
Zapp and Roger
Iron Maiden
Metallica
Steve Miller Band
Oh no, I think I could continue indefinitely
|3.23.08 @ 9:59AM|#
and let's not forget
Warren Zevon
Nine Inch Nails
Jane's Addiction/Perry Farrell
Donna Summer
Diamond Head
Gary Numan/Tubeway Army
Def Leppard
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|3.23.08 @ 10:24AM|#
Jonathon Hohensee:
for some reason Lawrence Welk, Stan Keaton, and Jim Nabors
managed to stay somewhat relevant throughout the radical times and
well beyond.
I know that was an awfully early quote to be responding to this far
down the thread, but Jim Nabors? Relevant? Come on, man!
Mike Laursen|3.23.08 @ 11:10AM|#
I just can't believe he never made an album called "Jim Nabors' Neighborhood".
Someone Who Doesn\'t Want to L|3.23.08 @ 11:33AM|#
"Jim Nabors' Extremely Relevant Neighborhood."
"Not Your Daddy's Gomer Anymore."
"Nabors EXTREME!"
This last one features several songs that will eventually make
their way into Mountain Dew commercials.
some guy|3.23.08 @ 12:04PM|#
Art-P.O.G.,
It's called the Rock 'N' Roll hall of fame. Not the "pop
music" or "disco" or "country" hall of fame. Thus my statement that
this waste of space has obsolescence built into it.
Who's next -- Spike Jones?
|3.23.08 @ 3:16PM|#
The most un-1968 song of 1968 was "Those Were the Days" by Mary
Hopkin. Unlike the Kinks selection, TWTD was delivered with a
straight face. And no drums*. And it wouldn't go away. It bent 1968
to its will. It might have even inspired the dreaded maxi skirt and
granny dress. Not sure.
*Maybe a high hat in the chorus.
some guy|3.23.08 @ 3:20PM|#
"Rock 'n' Roll" covered about 15 years. As a pop-music idiom it had about the same historical range as Swing, and only slightly longer than Ragtime. Sure, people keep writing for it, and there are nostalgic revivals, but as a living, innovative art form, the coffin lid closed 30 years ago.
|3.23.08 @ 3:41PM|#
I always think of "Rock n' Roll" as an umbrella term. New Wave,
Prog, Alternative, Industrial, Grunge, Shoegaze, et al. all fit
under the umbrella. And doggone it, if Grandmaster Flash and the
Furious 5 are in the hall, you have to put Wu-Tang, Outkast, et. al
in as well.
But then, rock n' roll becomes too nebulous a term. And if not
'classical', 'jazz', 'pop' or 'country', it's automatically rock n'
roll.
|3.23.08 @ 3:42PM|#
"Jim Nabors' Extremely Relevant Neighborhood."
"Not Your Daddy's Gomer Anymore."
"Nabors EXTREME!"
This last one features several songs that will eventually make
their way into Mountain Dew commercials.
Don't forget his ground-breaking gangsta album "I'm Gonna Fuck Up
Ya Bitch" album he produced back in 1992.
|3.23.08 @ 3:50PM|#
I didn't even know who Stan Kenton was until I Googled him. But then again, I'm young.
|3.23.08 @ 3:57PM|#
How come every genre of music apparently has died at the very
least 10 years before I ever had got a chance to ever listen to it?
Does the fact that the exposure of a musical style to an audience
that is not a small group of borderline autistic snobs suddenly
means that the genre is over?
I remember when Emo was starting to become mainstream around
2000-2001, I read this one website claiming that the Emo trend was
officially over in 1996 and none of the musicians recorded
anything, so tough shit to all of us "normal" people who wanted to
listen to the style.
|3.23.08 @ 3:59PM|#
so tough shit to all of us "normal" people who wanted to
listen to true emo.
Although really, I'd chalk that as being a win for us normal
people.
|3.23.08 @ 3:59PM|#
I'm not going to say it's because music critics are snobs...just kidding, it's because music critics are snobs.
John Zorn|3.23.08 @ 4:21PM|#
Art-POG,
I wrote a song about that for you.
"Perfume of A Critic's Burning Flesh" - you can find it on my album
with Naked City: Grand Guignol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Guignol_%28album%29
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 4:24PM|#
Perfume of a Critic's Burning Flesh
http://mp3-realm.biz/listen/779773.m3u
|3.23.08 @ 4:29PM|#
According to this, it seems as if performers actually pay to be
in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, like at the Walk in
Hollywood;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sex_pistols.gif
|3.23.08 @ 4:42PM|#
You still left a blank in that alphabetical list.
I know. I have the a weak memory. But who?
|3.23.08 @ 5:56PM|#
How did John Mellencamp get in before Roxy Music, Joy Division/New Order, Kraftwerk, Barry White or Iron Maiden? [throws up in mouth]
|3.23.08 @ 6:37PM|#
Sigur Ros
Bjork
Dropkick Murphys
Clap Your Hands Say Yeah
Trevor Horn
Dinosaur, Jr.
Black Flag
Bad Religion
Bloc Party
Boyz II Men
George Thorogood and the Destroyers
some guy|3.23.08 @ 7:37PM|#
I always think of "Rock n' Roll" as an umbrella
term
That's why Tiger Woods will soon be inducted into the Baseball Hall
of Fame.
He hits balls with a stick. Close enough, eh?
|3.23.08 @ 7:56PM|#
Sun Ra
Kool Keith
Soft Machine
DMX
Scarface/Geto Boys
Cypress Hill
Fear Factory
Portishead
Massive Attack
Garbage
Tears for Fears
R. Kelly
Eurythmics/Annie Lennox
That's why Tiger Woods will soon be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
He hits balls with a stick. Close enough, eh?
So you think 20+ Century Music Hall of Fame would be a better name? Because you're right, nobody's done 'rock and roll' since Elvis.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 8:41PM|#
Art-POG,
There is still one letter missing.
Think. Think.
(hint, from LA, one male, one female singer)
Mike Laursen|3.23.08 @ 8:48PM|#
Tell that to Martin Luther.
Really now, wouldn't Martin Luther have done a whole lot better if
he'd just boiled all his grievances down into a catchy protest
slogan. Oh, and maybe invented the t-shirt.
Art-P.O.G.|3.23.08 @ 9:13PM|#
Well, I did forget to mention My Bloody Valentine, Dire Straits, Phil Collins, the Jesus and Mary Chain and the Cocteau Twins but I don't think you're talking about any of them.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 9:16PM|#
Art-POG,
Every letter of the alphabet is represented at the R&R Hall of
fame except for the one between
W and Y.
That letter also happens to be the name of an incredibly
influential band from LA.
X
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 9:20PM|#
Art-POG,
Of course, given your list's apparently very low bar for entry, you
could have included
XTC, X Ray Spex...
|3.23.08 @ 9:25PM|#
But the real Rock Hall's bar is lower than mine. Mellencamp [blearghhhh]. You can't even deny that Roxy Music, Joy Division/New Order,Kraftwerk, Echo and the Bunnymen, Portishead and Massive Attack deserve to be in there.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 9:42PM|#
Art-POG,
I would be advocate for Joy Division & Kraftwerk...
I wouldn't be fine with Portishead and Massive Attack.
Echo & the Bunnymen, not so much...
|3.23.08 @ 9:42PM|#
The Cars, Ultravox, etc. etc. The Hall of Fame and Rolling Stone ignore New Wave. FOR SHAME!
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 9:43PM|#
That should read.
I would be fine with Portishead and Massive Attack...
or
I wouldn't be upset about Portishead and Massive Attack.
|3.23.08 @ 9:44PM|#
Neu Mejican...
I'd compare Echo and the Bunnymen to U2, if U2 were good.
Portishead and Massive Attack...well, I'll just say the song
"Teardrop" alone should get Massive Attack in the Hall of Fame.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 9:45PM|#
Let me try that all again.
In like Flynn
Joy Division
Kraftwerk
No contest
Portishead
Massive Attack
(as long as Tricky gets in on his own)
I would oppose
Echo & the Bunnymen
Roxy Music
Ultravox
|3.23.08 @ 9:47PM|#
OK, that makes more sense, NM.
Now listen to Echo and the Bunnymen's "The Cutter" and the 2nd half
of the "Ocean Rain" album. And listen to Orchestral Manoeuvres in
the Dark's "Architecture & Morality" album. One of the ten
finest albums I've ever heard.
|3.23.08 @ 9:49PM|#
I don't know how the hell you oppose Roxy Music. Have you heard the "Country Life" album? Or "In Every Dream Home A Heartache"? Or even their first album. Bryan Ferry is pure genius, I'm sorry.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:05PM|#
Art-POG,
Roxy Music has some good songs, but hardly rank among the greats of
their day (since you've offered albums for comparison...compare
their best with Here Come the Warm Jets).
Echo and the Bunnymen are fine, but they didn't really define their
style/their time. They are a good exemplar, but were not
innovators.
And just to give you some perspective.
I heard all of those albums when they were new.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:17PM|#
A band that had huge influence that will never make it.
Le Tout Puissant Orchestre Poly Rythmo De Cotonou
(50 albums, hundreds of singles from 1967 til just recently)
Easily as important as the more likely future inductee..
Fela Kuti
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:21PM|#
Le Tout Puissant Orchestre Poly Rythmo De Cotonou
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wzK7ttlR0LQ
|3.23.08 @ 10:26PM|#
Yeah, Eno's great and Fela Kuti will end up in the Hall. My
biggest problem is due to my age I have a limited perspective on
music. Of the bands that I grew up listening to there are only a
few I could say were truly great. But I'm gonna have to listen to
some post-Roxy Eno now.
BTW, you're not really into post-punk/synth-pop? And I see that
you're holding every artist to a high standard. Commendable.
But Madonna and Mellencamp are already in the hall [barfs].
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:33PM|#
you're not really into post-punk/synth-pop?
Actually, a big fan of the good stuff.
We just have different taste.
Check out early Cabaret Voltaire, Coil, or for a more pop
example... Severed Heads.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:39PM|#
Severed Heads website has some videos...
Start with the early stuff...
http://www.sevcom.com
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:40PM|#
The Kings of Benin is the name of a recent compilation of Poly Rythmo...worth tracking down.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:46PM|#
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00078805M/reasonmagazineA/
You know you want it.
|3.23.08 @ 10:46PM|#
I'm curious what you thought about Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "Dazzle Ships" album.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:50PM|#
OMD always bored me, to be honest.
My roommate loved their stuff, but I just couldn't get into
it.
There was so much good music to choose from in 83-84, I didn't feel
like I was missing out by ignoring OMD.
Neu Mejican|3.23.08 @ 10:53PM|#
Kate Bush has 3 great albums (The Dreaming is the best, Hounds
of Love, and the newest one).
Laurie Anderson was important, but dated poorly.
Some of her stuff holds up though.
Oh Superman was truly strange at the time.
She has an excellent sense of humor.
|3.23.08 @ 10:55PM|#
There was so much good music to choose from in 83-84
I was born in (late) 1983 and am convinced that is where my soft spot for synths comes from. Oddly enough, what I explicitly remember (no doubt from the radio) is Jennifer Warnes and Billy Ocean.
|3.23.08 @ 10:57PM|#
Heh. Enjoy your "Futurama". Seems like I watch all my shows on DVD/internet since all I got is AFN.
|3.24.08 @ 1:15AM|#
OMD's "Dazzle Ships" is totally worth checking out. In my
opinion, it's in the top 5 albums of the 80s, one of the most
underrated of all time and matches bands like Kraftwerk at their
best quality. For a great music video, check out "Telegraph."
Several who DEFINITELY need to be in the RnRHOF: Captain Beefheart,
Joe Meek, Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, Can, The Zombies, King Crimson,
Devo, Joy Division/New Order, Afrika Bambaataa, Link Wray, The
Shangri-La's, The Monkees (sure, they were prefabbed, but they're
damn important), The Stooges, Giorgio Moroder, The Modern Lovers,
The Residents, Robert Wyatt/Soft Machine, Wire, The Sugar Hill
Gang, Roxy Music, etc.
They should withdraw the Eagles, John Mellencamp, the Bee Gees and
McCartney's solo career and start down a list of real
innovators.
|3.24.08 @ 1:20AM|#
Art-P.O.G., Many of your acts aren't qualified because they
weren't formed > 25 years ago.
Add Sun Ra, Scott Walker and Tom Waits to my list, however.
|3.24.08 @ 9:05AM|#
Art-P.O.G., Many of your acts aren't qualified because they weren't formed > 25 years ago
Right. I didn't know that. Well, my original idea before I got carried away was to try to demonstrate that, despite "some guy"'s claim, the Hall could probably keep inducting people indefinitely.
highnumber|3.24.08 @ 10:44AM|#
But "Something Else" is the Kinks' best. "Waterloo Sunset,"
"Two Sisters," "Lazy Old Sun," "End Of The Season" and "David
Watts" are some of the best pop songs ever.
QFT, as the kids like to say. "Waterloo Sunset" is widely and
rightly recognized as one of the greatest pop songs ever written. I
got chills when we visited Waterloo Station.
Great article, Jesse. I will put the book on my list. (The good
list, not The List.)
Neu Mejican|3.24.08 @ 11:18AM|#
FWIW,
Sun Ra kicks ass.
But if he is inducted that would indicate that Jazz falls under the
umbrella of Rock-n-Roll. Not sure I see that as valid.
Was Sun Ra more rock than: Herbie Handcock? Jaco? Al Dimeola? Chick
Corea? Charles Mingus?
(A better case can be made for including Miles Davis, given Bitches
Brew etc...both for his influence on rock musicians, the rock band
instrumentation, and the active blurring of the jazz-rock
distinctions)
highnumber|3.24.08 @ 11:38AM|#
John McLaughlin could be correctly admitted both with Miles
Davis' band and with his Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Love Sun Ra, but don't see a real RnR connection.
Anyway, the HoF is a joke for, among many other reasons, its
American bias. Yes, yes, it is in the USA, but clearly RnR is an
international phenomenon and American rock has fed upon what was
created in other countries, most pointedly the UK.
IOW, the HoF is unworthy of discussion until the Jam is slated to
be inducted and Paul Weller tells them to piss off.
Neu Mejican|3.24.08 @ 11:59AM|#
International Rock scenes that need to be considered
Turkey,
Japan,
Cambodia,
India,
The entire continents of Africa & Europe
There are excellent examples from almost every country in the
world, actually, but those listed above had/have vibrant rock
scenes.
lunchstealer|3.25.08 @ 3:21PM|#
Sun Ra is cool, but yeah, he's Jazz, not RnR. I mean, Herbie Hancock and Miles Davis also both did crossoverish albums, but Head Hunters and Bitches Brew are still Jazz, not rock. Sun Ra's gotta be the same way.
Leave a Comment
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