Young Americans Abandon Old Media (And That's a Good Thing)

News vending boxesPatxi IzkueIf you're of the opinion that too many players in legacy media operations tend to give Democrats a pass on their foibles while exaggerating the (very real) excesses of Republicans, take heart! If you believe the likes of NBC News and the New York Times often behave like PR outfits for outrageously intrusive government, there's good news. Those old media outfits are about as relevant as wax tablets to younger Americans.

Research by Pew finds that younger and middle-aged audiences pay less attention to news than their predecessors. When they do tune in, it's increasingly to new media operations that potentially represent a greater diversity of opinion than you'll find in established newspapers and on the network news.

At Poynter, the Pew Research Center's Andy Kohut writes:

News organizations have been confronting the problem of a shrinking audience for more than a decade, but trends strongly suggest that these difficulties may only worsen over time. Today’s younger and middle-aged audience seems unlikely to ever match the avid news interest of the generations they will replace, even as they enthusiastically transition to the Internet as their principal source of news.

Pew Research longitudinal surveys find that Gen Xers (33-47 years old) and Millennials (18-31 years old), who spent less time than older people following the news at the outset of their adulthood, have so far shown little indication that that they will become heavier news consumers as they age.

In fact, Millennials put just over half as much time into news consumption in 2012 as "Silent" 67-84 year-olds: 46 minutes vs. 84 minutes. Boomers spent 77 minutes per day and Gen Xers 66 minutes. Pew finds that older Americans enjoy following the news more than young Americans—it has something of a hobby quality for them that is fading with successive generations. That means that younger Americans aren't necessarily less well-informed than their elders; they may be getting what they need and then turning to other activities.

Millennials' news sourcesPew Research CenterReinforcing that possibility is the emphasis Millennials and Gen Xers place on the Internet as a news source. It's easy to do a targeted news search and get what you want rather than wait for television or radio to mope around to topics that interest you, or wade through a newspaper for relevant articles.

The audience for newspapers among younger Americans has been modest from the outset of their adulthood, and has not increased as these people have matured. In fact, as they have gotten older Xers and Millennials have become even less inclined to read newspapers...

Television news viewership is markedly lower among younger age groups compared to older people, with no sign of it increasing as Xers and Millennials age. However, unlike newspapers, there is little indication that this TV news viewership declines with age.

In sharp contrast, Xers and Millennials have increasingly turned to the Internet for news as they have gotten older. Among Xers the Internet news audience jumped from 29 percent to 49 percent between 2004 and 2012. It now matches turning to TV for news, which also declined (by 20 percentage points over this period). Similar patterns are apparent among Millennials, but they are more extreme. More of those born between 1982 and 1995 (43 percent) now turn to the Internet for news than to TV (35 percent).

Radio is the traditional news source that has held its own the best among the younger cohorts as they have aged. Fully 38 percent of Xers say they got news from radio “yesterday” and 27 percent of Millennials said the same. Both measures are little changed since the middle of the last decade.

In addition, "a third of Millennials and 20 percent of Xers saying they regularly see news or news headlines on social-networking sites." Services like Twitter and Facebook act as conduits to information for younger Americans, and means for them to share news that interests them.

Even Boomers are abandoning newspapers, leaving only Silents as devotees of the dead-tree press.

There are a couple of potential upsides to these generational differences. One, is the slow and certain decline of old-line media windbags and their "gatekeeper" outlets into irrelevance. That's a welcome development in itself. The other is the proliferation of new media outlets representing different perspectives, and their availability to young news-seekers. The Internet allows users to bypass aging newspapers and establishment news broadcasts in favor of upstart operations, overseas media, and niche outfits that find their voices amplified by the Internet.

None of this means that younger Americas are destined to break loose of the received wisdom of David Brooks. But they're making a good start on finding information elsewhere.

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  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Too bad it also paves the way for rags like reason to lie to the people behing their KOCH funded publication and web site!

  • Hugh Akston||

    What would be the electronic equivalent of the "rags" pejorative?

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    'Trons?

  • fish_remote||

    Derps....?

  • Aloysious||

    Mary?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Why can't the Kochs be good corporate citizens like GE and fund and entire network, like MSNBC?

  • Floridian||

    Troll free Thursday dude. C'mon!

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Because, unlike GE, the Kochs aren't in on the crony gravy train. That kind of propaganda costs bookoo bucks.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    GE? Weren't they busted under the Sherman act... twice. Once for trying not to get accused of running a monopoly, and again for complying with the first ruling.
    I'm not making that up... source: Capitalism: An Unknown Ideal

  • fish_remote||

    Too bad it also paves the way for rags like reason to lie to the people behing their KOCH funded publication and web site!

    OOOoooooh Burn!

    /Kelso

  • BakedPenguin||

    I get all my news from 24/7.

  • Winston||

    Ha!

  • SIV||

    You can wait that long? By the time it hits 24/7 it's "olds".

  • Ted S.||

    I thought that people getting their news from 24/7 was a myth, like the myth of people successfully signing up to the Obamacare health exchanges.

  • #||

    I'm not so sure that young people relacing the NYT with John Stewart is necessarily an improment in the "media carries water for big government"

  • John||

    Good point. But they are also losing faith in government too.

    According to an April survey by the Harvard Institute of Politics, only 39 percent of young voters count on President Obama to “do the right thing,” and only 22 percent trust the federal government.

    - See more at: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/.....J3CQm.dpuf

    At some point maybe their distrust in government will translate into a distrust of the people like Stewart who have been selling it to them. Wishful thinking I know. But we can always dream.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    They won't be young forever. And people don't usually get less cynical as they get older.

  • Austrian Anarchy||

    You won't see that reported by the outlets nobody reads.

  • Jordan||

    Every time I visit my parents, I have to sit through the evening news and it is unbelievably excruciating.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Is it the local nooz or the national nooz? Because those are distinct flavors of awful.

  • Jordan||

    They watch both back to back. Like I said: excruciating.

  • From the Tundra||

    Mine have NPR on all the time. Just brutal.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Mine have Fox News Channel on 24/7. Maybe some Reason folks will get through to them?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Sometimes in the morning when I'm eating breakfast I'll throw on CNN... I last about 2 minutes and switch it to sports highlights. They come at every story from a statist position and will always work to make the story positive for the Dems.

  • JW||

    My gym has CNN on one of the monitors. The entire time last night is AWAITING SENATE VOTE ON ENDING SHUTDOWN, with a clock showing how many days, hours and minutes the shutdown had been going on and Very Serious Anchors breathlessly informing us of all the irrelevant minutia. Holy fuck, what simplistic, bottom-feeding drek.

    It was all I could do to stop myself from killing everyone in there, watching it. I'd be doing them a favor.

  • #||

    Be glad its not MSNBC on.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Every time I visit my parents, I have to sit through the evening news and it is unbelievably excruciating.

    Why do you let them have the remote? They're old and feeble, take that shit and put on Cartoon Network, it's all they should be permitted to watch anyway.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Better yet, use the parental controls.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Don't you be bitchin about Adult Swim.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    My old man had quadruple bypass around the time of the sequestercaust. I had to stay with him and he always watched NBC Nightly News. It had been the first time I was exposed to network news since the internet, and excruciating was the word. Doom was on its way in every story as budgets were being slashed to the bone.

  • MJGreen||

    Same. It is amazing to watch it and see some what they get away with. Though this weekend, even my mom knew that they were wrong to say the nation would default in 72 hours or whatever.

    It's worse when I decide to visit on Fridays, because they watch PBS Newshour for Brooks and Shields. Yeesh.

  • SIV||

    Paul Gigot was a fucking anarchist compared to Brooks.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    At least Shields is arguably a center-left vs. the muppet squad of Brooks and Diane, er, Dionne.

  • Hyperion||

    Do you use that time to edumencate your elders, or do you just pull out your flask and drank your way through it?

  • Jordan||

    I seethe silently and polish my monocle.

  • Invisible Finger||

    TV news is eye candy for people with low vision.

  • Killazontherun||

    In fact, Millennials put just over half as much time into news consumption in 2012 as "Silent" 67-84 year-olds: 46 minutes vs. 84 minutes. Boomers spent 77 minutes per day and Gen Xers 66 minutes.

    That stat reminds me of the skew that existed in the early nineties between men and women. Women on average read news papers around half as much than men did, and financial news coverage far less than that. Women also much more strongly voted for welfare dependent statism. This was the infamous rise of the soccer mom era. I started reading newspapers around the age of eight, graduated from the locals around the age of twelve, developed a healthy skepticism of media bias at about fifteen. I'll posit a counter hypothesis, if you have not spent at least ten thousand hours reading news, you have not developed a sufficient bullshit detector in regards to content.

  • Killazontherun||

    Women on average read news papers around half as much than men did

    I bungled the edit there, but it was laid out all pretty like. You'll have to take my word, I'm not tossing that word salad again.

  • Floridian||

    I'll toss YOUR word salad!!!

    *hangs head• I don't know what that means.

  • Killazontherun||

    It means you'll have to reach around and grab a dangling modifier.

  • JW||

    I'm a Gen-X'er and I'd be very surprised if I spent half that time reading the news.

    What's the fucking point any more? It's poorly written, data-poor information that's likely filtered and skewed through a recent college grad's proglodyte head. The bulk of it misinformed, ill-informed, rip and read straight from AP or just flat out lying.

    Fuck 'em. I'll enjoy my bliss of things I can do nothing to change and spend my time on things that bring me pleasure, not throbbing veins in my forehead.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I hope the internet really does bring about more politically knowledgeable people, but I imagine most people will use CNN, NYT, and Huff etc. as their sources and not be in any better position than if they just watched the news on TV.

    I am 26 and any political ideology that is not left is looked down upon by people in my age cohort (that I typically run across). Libertarianism is looked at as some form of anarchism. Luckily I grew up in a libertarian household. My father only a few years ago realised that was what his political beliefs were called (through Stossel being a guest on Imus in the Morning) and actually introduced me to libertarianism as a political movement. Ron Paul in 2011 really brought me in though.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Met a young fellow, probably 23 , at my local bar this week who self-identified as libertarian. Ron Paul was his catalyst, too.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I usually avoid any political conversation with most people. In Canada (where I'm at, currently), questioning the health care system or the gun/self defense laws is almost treason. So, political conversation is a non-starter, or at least I don't have the will to attempt to break through those deeply cemented beliefs.

  • rts||

    Also in Canada here, and I have no problem breaking through those deeply cemented beliefs...

    but then, I'm also kind of an asshole.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    What part of Canada do you reside in comrade?

  • rts||

    Vancouver-ish.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Other side of the country, basically. I hail from Ontario.

  • BiMonSciFiCon||

    Do you guys know Scott? Scott's a dick.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Seriously though, who keeps letting all these puckslappers comment on this blog?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Just jealous of our health care system aren't ya?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Not for long.

  • ||

    What's that all aboot?

  • AlexInCT||

    C-Eh-N-Eh-D-Eh!

  • Floridian||

    I've been pointing out the inconsistencies of the republican party for ten years to my dad and finally this year he said he was changing parties. Also my wife, sister and cousin. It can be done it just takes patience and reality.

  • pan fried wylie||

    The government shutdown engendered more political conversations with my mom, and after the 2nd or 3rd conversation, mom was basically like "so that's libertarianism? wow, sounds right to me."

    This is after years of any political conversation between us resorting to her supporting wealth redistribution as a necessary public good.

    In summary, "What Floridian Said."

  • Hyperion||

    I've converted a few people over the last 5 years or so. It's not easy and you have to pick your opportunities. Most people are not even open to that conversation.

  • Ted S.||

    It's not easy and you have to pick your opportunities.

    As a Green Bay Packer fan, I tried to use the Johnny Jolly case to point out the evilness of the war on drugs on the various Packer boards I frequent. It was depressing to see how many people thought Jolly deserved to spend years in prison for wanting to alter his brain chemistry in a way the state doesn't approve of.

  • ||

    My Pa was always a Reagan-style Republican who put a lot of trust into institutions such as law enforcement.

    No longer. He's now a rabid bigorati reason subscriber.

  • Hyperion||

    My father only a few years ago realised that was what his political beliefs were called

    Same thing happened to me. I went all my life not realizing why I couldn't fit in with either liberals or conservatives political wise. Only realized I was libertarian in 2007. I thought I was the only person on earth with the political views that I held.

  • MJGreen||

    Also 26* (though 27 on Sunday!), and I just assume everyone I meet is progressive. Luckily a lot of the people I meet are quasi-libertarian on some issues, so I only engage when they talk about those. And it's those issues like the drug war, prison reform*, etc. that I'll bother to bring up.

    As I can't stand people so obnoxious as to make politics a big part of their identity and relationships, my association with that kind of person quickly works itself out.

    *and an anarchist, so I accept the insult when it's thrown at me

    **though the way a lot of progs tell it, the only real problem with prisons is that a small percent of them are privatized

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    That is basically how I live. I don't really hang out with anybody who makes politics part of them for the same reasons you state.

    Most people are indifferent, I find, and only think leftist because that is just what everyone does. They don't put any more thought into it. So politics don't usually come up.

  • entropy||

    Libertarianism is looked at as some form of anarchism.

    That's how I look at it too.

    "Libertarian" is what I tell people to be polite.

  • gaijin||

    No wonder dear leader said this in his presser today:

    ""Now that the government has reopened and this threat to our economy is removed, all of us need to stop focusing on the lobbyists, and the bloggers, and the talking heads on radio and the professional activists who profit from conflict..."

  • Killazontherun||

    Holy God of Thunder. A deal where his allies actually do profit at the expense of everyone else, and he has the nerve to accuse those of covering it of having impure motives.

  • Killazontherun||

    those of covering it of having impure motives.

    Goddamn. Read through that three or four times, detecting something vaguely wrong, still missed it until I submitted it. Need to get my brain checked.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Maybe it's a toomah.

  • gaijin||

    It's as if he is the anti man. Whatever he says, believe or do the opposite and it will probably be close to the truth. In other words, he lies about everything.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Now that...this threat to our economy is removed

    He didn't like the competition.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    If you're of the opinion that too many players in legacy media operations tend to give Democrats a pass on their foibles while exaggerating the (very real) excesses of Republicans, take heart!

    Funny you should mention this, J D; a little while ago, at lunch, I picked up a copy of the Billings paper and on page two there was a long poorly written excrescence by some McClatchy "journalist" about how the evil TEA PARTY!1! thugs got their heads handed to them in the Great Budget Showdown of 2013. I did not read the whole thing, because it was definitely putting me off my feed.

    tl,dr version. Teh Tea Party (a vast monolithic conspiracy of seditious anti-American assholes) sux, and wants you to die in the gutter, broke and alone.

  • Winston||

    And Huffpo, Slate, etc. will write something better?

  • pan fried wylie||

    Ideally, everyone should die broke, since their kids should be inheriting their wealth.

    (yeah yeah, the inheritance process doesn't occur until after death, but your will is in place before then, so I'm only shifting the timeline a lil bit)

  • sarcasmic||

    My seventy year old father just sank his entire equity into a big addition on his house. He wants to die broke, but not because I inherit it all. Quite the opposite. Jerk.

  • wareagle||

    family and money, quite possibly the most toxic mix there is.

  • sarcasmic||

    Thing is, it's not like he's super rich or anything. And it's not like I have any siblings (that I know of). So there's not a lot of wealth and no one to squabble with. He's just resents people who inherit wealth so much that he'll cut off his son to spite Paris Hilton.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Hey, it's his money. Stop trying to dictate how he spends it. Jerk.

  • sarcasmic||

    Well he did say he'll leave me all his 80s vinyl. Like I want a bunch of albums no one ever listened to. But it's something. To sell.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    WEALTH CONCENTRATION!!!

    A smart guy I work with, who regretfully is a total prog, has told me that inheritance taxes need to be massive or else there will be massive wealth concentration and we will end up with only rich and poor, no middle class. I was disappointed in him.

  • sarcasmic||

    Sounds like my father. He's putting his money where his mouth is by going out of his way to be sure I don't inherit squat.

  • Hyperion||

    That's basically the goal of the progs, no middle class, so what's his problem with that?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I don't think he realises what the goal of true progs are. He wants utopia where everyone makes similar amounts to eachother.

    He once told me that $200,000 should be an income cap because.. well that's enough for anyone to live well off of, and that he was disappointed with Obama because he wasn't progressive enough.

  • sarcasmic||

    My father too believes there should be a maximum income. He thinks that if there's a 100% tax on income greater than say a million dollars, that the rich will continue to make hundreds of millions of dollars and the difference will go to the poor, instead of them quitting when they will no longer reap the rewards of their effort. Dude fails to understand incentives.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Dude fails to understand incentives.

    Non-perverse incentives.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Global average per capita income is about $10k. If we say 5 times that is "rich" then all income over $50k should be taxed at 100%. What would your father say to that?

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Yeah, that makes sense. Nothing leads to massive wealth concentration like exponential division.

    There's a very good reason the aristocracy did not split estates, and inherited through the eldest son only.

  • Homple||

    I'm all in favor of massive inheritance taxes if they help get rid of such excrescences as the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and their "more just, verdant and peaceful world" claptrap.

  • Ketogenic Paleo||

    You're all a bThe book Myth of the Robber Barons dispelled thatunch of hosers.

  • Winston||

    When they do tune in, it's increasingly to new media operations that potentially represent a greater diversity of opinion than you'll find in established newspapers and on the network news.

    "Should 100% of Republicans and libertarians be killed or only 99%"?

    It's easy to do a targeted news search and get what you want rather than wait for television or radio to mope around to topics that interest you, or wade through a newspaper for relevant articles.

    So they can be more insular than ever before?

    None of this means that younger Americas are destined to break loose of the received wisdom of David Brooks.

    When that happens it will be due to Brook's anarchist views.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What would be the electronic equivalent of the "rags" pejorative?

    Blarghs.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    You magnificent bastard!

  • Floridian||

    "You magnificent bastard!"

    Did you read his book?

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    The media gets more and more conservative bias everyday. When news was balanced everyone was okay getting it from a few sources, but now that the republican money machine controls so much news consumption it is almost impossible to escape it unless you switch to an alternate source.

  • ChrisO||

    How's the weather over on the Bizarro World?

  • fish_remote||

    Fevered and steamy!

  • Aloysious||

    No, somebody farted.

  • wareagle||

    thanks for the comic relief. Do try and ease the butthurt from talk radio, fox, and some others cutting into the liberal monopoly.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Sounds like you live in an echo chamber! Other than one or two voices like Maddow who else do you have counteracting Bill O'Reily and all the other republican cheerleaders on this site and others?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    This site is a republican site featuring Bill O'Reilly and Hannity regularly. Nailed us.

    Is this Shriek's sock puppet? A sock puppet of a sock puppet?

  • ||

    It's Mary. Ignore her.

  • ||

    Bill O'Reily and all the other republican cheerleaders on this site

    Oh, well, there's your problem bruh. This is Reason.com. Bill O'Reilly is a commentator on Fox News. What you want to do is hit this link:

    www.foxnews.com

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Matt Welch is pretty much Orelly light! Nick Gillespie is leather jacket version of Hannity. What's the difference - they all want republicans to take over!

  • ||

  • wareagle||

    that totally explains why they voted for Obama at least once, and possibly both times. Are you naturally this stupid or does it require practice?

  • Calidissident||

    Unless they were lying in these articles, neither one of them voted for Obama in either election. Not that this guy's argument isn't idiotic

    http://reason.com/archives/200.....ur-vote/18

    http://reason.com/archives/201.....singlepage

  • pan fried wylie||

    Roasted Baby Artichokes
    Serves 3 to 5

    Ingredients:
    1 lb baby artichokes
    3 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil
    salt and pepper to taste
    butter sauce:
    ¼ cup drawn butter
    ½ teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
    2 tablespoons mayonnaise

    Directions:
    1. Preheat oven to 350°F.
    2. To clean the baby artichokes: Trim the outer, green leaves from the artichoke, until you reach the soft, yellow leaves.
    3. Cut the tops off and trim the stem.
    4. Cut each cleaned artichoke in half and toss together in a bowl with the olive oil, salt and pepper.
    5. Spread the artichokes onto a baking sheet, in a single layer and roast in the oven for 25 to 30 minutes.
    6. For the sauce: stir together the drawn butter and pepper flakes. Pour the mixture into a small bowl and dollop the mayo into the center of the bowl. Serve as a dipping sauce to the artichokes.

    http://www.spoonforkbacon.com/.....rtichokes/

  • ||

    You're in CA, so you have easy access to baby 'chokes. I don't think I've ever seen them here in the wastelands of the DC Metro area, even at Whore Foods.

  • pan fried wylie||

    Wegmans, though, admittedly they don't always have them either.

  • ||

    I don't really like artichokes. Do you have any meat recipes?

  • pan fried wylie||

    Meat, heat, eat.

    Happy now?

  • ||

  • Hugh Akston||

    Is it true that Warty's timesuit smells like burnt protein powder?

  • SugarFree||

    It smells like a man, Hugh.

  • Warty||

    I prefer it in caps. MAN.

  • ||

    It's very difficult to smell things with rape-tentacles in EVERY orifice, Hugh. You should know this better than anyone here.

  • Ted S.||

    I get the impression that "Frodo Teabaggins" is a parody.

  • ||

    I believe you are correct Ted.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    So typically republican, just brush it off as trolling when someone presents a cogent and intelligent argument against you!

  • Homple||

    I vote "parody".

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Sing it Frodo! The Kochtopus entangles us all!

  • From the Tundra||

    Will 2003 come and clean up its mess, please?

  • pan fried wylie||

    2003 called.

    It says it still doesn't have that back-rent it owes you, but wonders if you've seen its Zune.

  • Swiss Servator, Zurichmania!||

  • gaijin||

    I ran that through the de-derpilator. Unfortuantely it came back as:

    KocHtoPusFauxNews.

    Clearly several layers of derp in there.

  • fish_remote||

    Might I suggest reason.com.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    I heard the Koch brothers personally run reason.com though!

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Of course they don't personally run it! They are rich enough to hire stooges who do it for them, which is why we citizens have to be so vigilant. Libertarians wish they could just outspend everybody else and win the debate, but we the people can't let that happen!

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    Of course they don't personally run it! They are rich enough to hire stooges who do it for them

    That's what they want you to think. See, they have you fooled. Actually, they are probably running you, having you tell people they don't run reason.com, and you don't even realise it. You're a Koch shill.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Libertarians wish they could just outspend everybody else and win the debate,


    Sort of like how Barry spent $740 million to buy the 2008 election and $715 million to buy the 2012 election?

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    He did it to save us from ourselves!

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    And Romney and the Kochs spent BILLIONS!

  • Old Bull Lee||

    Your love of the halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Rom-bot 2.0 spent $400 million. Barry outspent him. Deal with it.

  • #||

    This is one of the things I love about brain dead lefty talking points. Do they no realize that the bulk of the coastal urban wealthy elite are now strongly entrenched within the Democratic party? This isn't 1950 where all the rich people were Rockefeller Republicans.

    The Democrats are the party of the government dependent poor and the wealthy coastal elite. The GOP largely gets its support from middle aged, middle class, rural and suburban people.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I read a story a couple of days ago in which some talking head was aghast that the Tea Partiers in Congress were not financially beholden to Big Business. And then crowed about how Big Business donors were gearing up to primary guys like Justin Amash so that "moderate" Republicans like John Boehner could win seats. Republicans are bad because they are in the pocket of Big Business, except when they are not in the pocket of Big Business, then they are worse and have to be removed from office.

    Heads I win, tails you lose.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    lol whre are you reading that, Fox or Drudge no doubt! Pres. Obama outspent rmoney only in what they spent directly. When you compare what other people on their sides spend the repubs spend much bigger amounts! Just like a republican, though - make facts up to support your narrative!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    make facts up to support your narrative!

    A fact, but definition, cannot be "made up." It can be known or unknown, but it can't be untrue.

    But thank for conceding that Obama outspent Romney, despite trying not to.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    You deliberately leave out the important point that overall rmoney outspent Pres. Obama when all money in the race is considered. Pres. Obama simply was trying to be more transparent than rmoney, who used Kochs and other wealthy repubs to hide who was actually spending money!

  • #||

    I'm pretty sure the Dems and their allies outspent the GOP and its allies in both 2008 and 2012.

  • Floridian||

    I repeat. TROLL FREE THURSDAY!!!!!!!!!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    There was an executive order from the KOCHTOPUS, delaying implementation of TFT until after the next election.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    41 network news stories blaming TEAM Red for the 17% shutdown, 0 stories blaming TEAM Blue.

    Taste that conservative bias. It has the meaty flavor progressives love.

  • sarcasmic||

    If the Republicans House refuses to pass what the Democrat Senate and President want, then they're being obstructionist bullies.

    If the Republicans Senate and President refuse to sign off on what the Democrat House passes, then they're being obstructionist bullies.

    Heads they win, tails you lose.

  • pan fried wylie||

    FYTW.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    The shutdown was 100% republican's fault, so isn't that what you would expect. Thankfully we have an adult as president who cleaned up your side's mess!

  • sarcasmic||

    There's nooooo business like troooooll business...

  • pan fried wylie||

    It's like no business I knoooooow....because they're selling a product no one wants to buy, and actual businesses can't work that way since they wouldn't be in business very long. But hey, when you've got the guys with guns on your side...

  • WTF||

    This must be one of the regulars screwing around. It just has to be.

  • fish_remote||

    and not putting much effort into it!

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    It's fun though.

  • Ruckus||

    But still succeeding

  • #||

    This has got to be sarcastic right? Or did we just get a new completely brain dead troll?

  • Invisible Finger||

    Fake trolls set up by Koch to generate page refreshes for increased ad dollars.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    The shutdown was 100% republican's fault

    Citation?

    Thankfully we have an adult as president


    Yep, he barricades the monuments, shuts down the national parks, ejects the private operators from the parks, leaves the Andrews AFB golf course open in case in wants to play a round, but shutters the commisaries.

    What a mature guy.

    who cleaned up your side's mess


    I'm not on TEAM Red, but thanks for playing anyway. And how is it TEAM Red's fault that Barry has managed to rack up more debt in two years than the Great Shaitan, the King of Atrocities, the Enemy of All Life on Earth, Dubya did in eight?

  • fish_remote||

    Well he was clearly dealing with the worst.......


    I'm sorry...I just can't... even attempting to bring that level of derp hurts my head!

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Pres. Obama is just doing what he has to do after bush left this country dying and broke with his libertarian policies. The republicans are desperate to make him fail they have been holding the country hostage by threatening to not pay our debts! Thank goodness the president held strong to prevent permanent shutdown and default!

  • WTF||

    Yeah, whoever is working this sockpuppet really isn't putting any effort into making it believable.

  • wareagle||

    it's like buttface and mary had a child.

  • #||

    Yeah, I'm convinced this isn't real. This thing makes Tony look intelligent.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Yeah, I'm convinced this isn't real. This thing makes Tony look intelligent.

    If it finally gets people to skip troll comments it will all be worth it.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Pres. Obama is just doing what he has to do


    The ends justify the means. The hymn of tyrants, petit and grand, since time immemorial.

    after bush left this country dying and broke with his libertarian policies.


    I guess I need to read Atlas Shrugged (the libertarian bible) again. I didn't know creating swarms of new offices, jailing people indefinitely without trial, passing reams of new regulations, and making transfer payments to the pharmaceutical industry, were all libertarian policies.

    The republicans are desperate to make him fail

    He needs little help on that front. What has Obama accomplished, as President, besides passing Obamacare?

    they have been holding the country hostage by threatening to not pay our debts!

    The federal reserve would be very cross if they didn't get their interest payments on time.

    Thank goodness the president held strong to prevent permanent shutdown and default!

    The more time he spends on the gold course, the more likely it is that something will get done, however bad it might be.

  • WTF||

    Don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Every time I read this I end up laughing uncontrollably. This is even worse than reading Restaurant at the End of the Universe in 7th grade study hall.

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    It really bothers me that you use "Frodo" in your name. You dishonor it.

  • Frodo Teabaggins||

    Like Frodo I have ventured into this Mordor of libertarianism to destroy it.

  • ||

    Wait, I thought we were a Mordpr of Republicanism. That's what you said in another post.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    now that the republican money machine controls so much news consumption it is almost impossible to escape it unless you switch to an alternate source.

    WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    This is why I'm hooked.

  • sarcasmic||

    Slightly off topic:

    Kill them with fire... Chinese soldiers restort to FLAME THROWERS to destroy giant hornet nests


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....rnets.html

    Video shows officers dressed in camouflaged uniforms and wearing gas masks as if they were preparing to enter a war zone.
    Having surveyed the area, one officer places the flame thrower precariously on the shoulder of a colleague before launching a bolt of fire into the tree.
    After a few more bursts, the hornet nest is seen engulfed in fire.
    The unit's commander said their extreme tactics were necessary.

    Skip to about 1:00 if you don't want to listen to Chinese people prattle on in Chinese with Chinese subtitles.

  • fish_remote||

    if you don't want to listen to Chinese people prattle on in Chinese with Chinese subtitles.

    How dare you denigrate Cantonese speakers!

  • sarcasmic||

    There's so many dialects over there that I figure the subtitles while the soldier was speaking was because he was using a different dialect than the hostess.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Well, they used a language the hornets were able to understand.

  • sarcasmic||

  • pan fried wylie||

    yeah, I looked up "chinese language" on wikipedia one time....

    turns out there is no such thing.

  • JW||

    HOO-AH!

    I like the one guy who's lowest on the food chain, holding up the end of the barrel. "You usually don't bust into flames. Usually."

  • Killazontherun||

    Awesome is never off topic.

  • sarcasmic||

    And here I thought "Kill them with fire" would get more than two responses. I thought that was a HampR meme or something.

  • Floridian||

    People are busy playing with a troll they think is you.

  • sarcasmic||

    Why would I use a different name? When I troll I just do it as sarcasmic with lots and lots of exclamation points.

  • Floridian||

    Maybe they think you finally cracked into two distinct personalities. One half libertarian and the other statist and you are unaware of the split.

  • Swiss Servator, Zurichmania!||

    Bearded Spock sarcasmic?

  • pan fried wylie||

    What's the point of this link?

    You kill hornets with fire. That's how it's done.

    I guess you could not-kill them, if you don't mind the hornets taking over control of your property with their stinging. But hey, you didn't really deserve to use your property anyway.

    Go kill yourself, because hornets deserve that land more than you do.

    While we're at it, we should prohibit all pest control, because, like, pests have feelings too, man!

  • pan fried wylie||

    ("yourself" not being directed at Sarcasmic, but used in the general sense of "you" or "one")

  • ChrisO||

    One of the problems with this is the distinction between news and opinion.

    In terms of actual news reporting (biased or otherwise), newspapers are marginally okay, broadcast TV news presents a small portion, cable TV news is mostly jackasses braying their opinions, and the Internet is almost entirely jackasses braying their opinions.

    I don't know how the news gathering function of real journalism gets replaced with online sources. It certainly won't happen with HuffPo or bloggers. They just aggregate news stories and spew opinions about them.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I generally use the blogs to click through to the original story. Sometimes the bloggy summary doesn't capture all the nuances.

  • ChrisO||

    And that's the problem. What happens when the original story no longer exists? What replaces it?

  • sloopyinca||

    If they're turning to "new media" like HuffPo, then we're well and truly fucked.

    Witness the idiotic story followed by even more idiotic commentary on this "why is there a weak hurricane season" story.

    I'll give you one guess as to what these fucking idiots think is causing it.

  • sarcasmic||

    The Halliburton Hurricane Machine was retooled for cyclones?

  • sloopyinca||

    No, you dope. It was the Koch Cyclonator that Bush funded after he already got his Halliburton funders rich from the insurance scheme they did on 9/11 when they brought the towers down.

  • ||

    Wait, I thought Paulson was running the 9/11 insurance operation for Goldman? And in exchange Halliburton got to loot all of Iraq's oil.

  • sarcasmic||

    You forget Katrina! That was the Halliburton Hurricane Machine piloted by Darth Cheney himself! Straight up!

  • ||

    I thought Bush did Katrina single handedly because he hates black people?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Bush strolled down to the 9th Ward and used his demonic Omen powers to punch a hole in the levy.

    Everybody knows that.

  • sloopyinca||

    Good Lord. Bush and Halliburton pulled 9/11 so they could collect the insurance money through Goldman Sachs by way of underwriting the reinsurance policy GS had specifically on Tower 2. The Tower 1 collapse was a false-flag to throw people off the scent. Katrina was carried out by Cheney's personal army from their Gulf island lair with their weather machine but was merely an experiment that got out of control and was not a flagrant act against Gaia. He saved that for the 2004 tsunami, which oddly enough was aimed at Thailand because he was still angry at a ladyboy who turned him down when he was running interference for the CIA in 1973.

    It's like you people don't even read the news.

  • John||

    My favorite was that Bush pulled off 9-11 so that we could invade Afghanistan and let Haliburton build this huge evil pipeline through Afghanistan. You know that pipeline that 12 years on no one has ever so much as proposed building?

  • pan fried wylie||

    Democrat obstrutionists, something something hostages something something

  • ||

    I'll give you one guess as to what these fucking idiots think is causing it.

    BOOOOOOSH!11!!one!eleventy!

  • Fatty Bolger||

    The tea party?

  • Raston Bot||

    Radio would be in the dumper too if the NTSB didn't have such scrotal torsion over Google Windshield™.

  • sloopyinca||

    I put my GPS way up on my windshield below my rear view and I've got to say, it's really a lot safer than having it down and out of the normal field of vision.

  • Raston Bot||

    Exactly. Folks could read internet news while they drive. It would take practice to develop the skill and maybe some are just not capable but we're all forcefully insured anyway so why not?

  • pan fried wylie||

    If there's one thing I wouldn't mind the govt forcing people to buy, it would be self-driving cars.

    I'd still have to disagree with myself on principle, but once we have self-driving cars, I don't see how we can allow human-operated vehicles to continue to share the same roads with with automated ones.

    Commercial driving might still be human-operated.....until version 2 of AutoDrive is released. Delivery services will still need humans, until there's a robot that can put the package on your doorstep.

    General people traffic though? 1000BaseT that shit.

  • pan fried wylie||

    obviously, this proposal includes eliminating the licensing of drivers, and closing down DMV/MVAs. Oh wait, but then what would we base our healthcare system on?!

  • ||

    The morons on the road who can't drive will be the first people to buy self-driving cars. They reason they can't drive is because they don't have any interest in driving, and will gladly let the car drive itself while they spend time reading a book or tweeting or applying makeup without the distraction of having to pay attention to traffic. No government coercion needed.

  • pan fried wylie||

    No government coercion needed.

    LIES, JON STEWART TOLD ME SO!!111oneone

  • Killazontherun||

    This is choice:

    Eureka! Tea partiers know science

    http://www.politico.com/story/.....98488.html



    A finding in a study on the relationship between science literacy and political ideology surprised the Yale professor behind it: Tea party members know more science than non-tea partiers.

    . . .

    “I’ve got to confess, though, I found this result surprising. As I pushed the button to run the analysis on my computer, I fully expected I’d be shown a modest negative correlation between identifying with the Tea Party and science comprehension,” Kahan wrote.

    “But then again, I don’t know a single person who identifies with the Tea Party,” he continued. “All my impressions come from watching cable tv — & I don’t watch Fox News very often — and reading the ‘paper’
  • sloopyinca||

    A Yale law professor that doesn't know a single person that identifies with the Tea Party and gets all of their news from "the paper" and MSNBC? Nooooooooooo waaaaaaaaaaaaay!

  • Killazontherun||

    This was floating around a few days ago. Bush responsible for government shutdown.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ploademail

    Got to admit the lady at just a minute in won my heart.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The vibe I got from her was "Bless your heart, honey, now would you be so kind as to [bleep] off."

    Or maybe that's what *I* would say to one of those microphone-wielding jerks.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    And jerkoff was condescending as fuck. "That's an honest answer."

    "Well, honey, it's so kind of you to praise my honesty - if I wasn't so honest, I'd return the compliment."

  • sarcasmic||

    I wonder if this guy knows that there is an inverse relationship between one's knowledge of economics and the likelihood of their being a liberal.

  • John||

    No. People like that only know other liberals. They sit around and smell each others' farts in the absolute knowledge that everyone who is not a liberal is a racist, ignorant hill billy who believes the earth was created 6,000 years ago.

  • sarcasmic||

    The hive mentality is strange. I mean, one on one they can be taught basic economics, assuming they don't get too emotional, but they revert to hive mentality upon just minutes of exposure to fellow drones. It's weird to watch.

  • John||

    I can't tell you the number of times I have had conversations about economics or history and had liberals tell me that they just can't believe anyone who knows as much as I do could be a conservative. That doesn't say much about my knowledge. It just says that they honestly think anyone who is not a liberal is some hate filled ignoramus.

  • sarcasmic||

    You give them too much credit. They don't think. They feel. And they assume everyone else works on emotion. So when you disagree they'll accuse you of being motivated by fear, hatred, or some other emotion, because that's all they understand.

    I know. I used to feel that way. Now I think.

  • #||

    It really is amazing to the extent that liberals tend to just completely lack the capacity to think outside of their own very narrow avenue.

    I'm pretty sure I can pretty reasonably describe the basic reasoning behind the standard liberal, social conservative and defense hawk despite not being any of those things. Why can't liberals think outside at all?

  • John||

    ^^THIS^^

    Liberals cannot understand their ideological opponents. The root of that I think is that liberals derrive so much of their personal self worth from their political beliefs. If you understand the other side, you realize that not only is there a reasonable way someone could think that but also that the other side sometimes has a valid criticism against your side. But if you believe that, it then becomes pretty hard to think that you are a better person for thinking what you do. And if that is true, how can you derive any personal sense of self worth for being on your side?

  • Killazontherun||

    The ideology is a post hoc rationalization of the behavioral impulses that will get them ahead in the dominate, most politically connected element of society. Sure, most find themselves on the loser end of the strata, but so long as they are in sync with the elite, that elevated status is reflected upon them.

  • John||

    That too kilazorntherun. It is funny. The progs are always going on about Jim Crow. But the reality is that they use the same psychological tactics to old South white supremacists used. Progs get students and other non elite white people to buy into the Prog ideology as a way of showing themselves to be better than other poor and middle class whites in the same way the Old South slavers got poor whites to believe in slavery and Jim Crow as a way for them to feel a part of the elite culture.

  • wareagle||

    he's not even smart enough to be self-aware. He's reminiscent of the New Yorkers in '72 who didn't know anyone who voted for Nixon. Self-parody.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    From the comments:

    If this is a valid finding, then it simply underscores just how much demagoguery is embedded in the statements and assertions made by many, perhaps most, Tea Partiers who rail against the deep scientific basis for their particular hot-button issues (e.g. anthropogenic CO2 forcing of climate change, evolution vs. creationism, regulation of a wide variety of industrial pollution sources, etc.). They should know better, but choose to spout false and misleading "facts" in order to drum up political support and rouse public sentiment from those with far less knowledge or comprehension of science and its body of current knowledge.

    Hahahahahah! I bet those Tea Party cretins expect climate change pushers to have predictive models!

  • John||

    The other thing is that liberals are so obnoxious and oppressive that a lot of people who hold conservative views don't advertise them. For example, I know a fair number of MD PHDs and biologists. All of them are outwardly liberal and politically center left. But all of them in a private moment will admit that they cannot, given the current state of knowledge about fetal development, support late term abortions. But they would never advertise that fact publicly.

    I would love to be able to tell the guy whose comment you quote that there are probably people he knows well and trusts who hold secret tea bagging views. One could only imagine the paranoia that would engender.

  • #||

    This probably does explain some of it. I know a college professor who tells me that she explicity kept her politics to herself until she got tenure. And even now doesn't wonder too deep.

    You have to be in the closet in many professions if you don't subscribe to the standard lefty line.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The thing is they're constantly surprised by these results. They need a "social science" study to confirm what normal people already know.

    The presumption is that in the absence of a study proving otherwise, even the silliest and ridiculous prog talking points are true. Even if there is a study they try to stick it in the memory hole.

    Finally reality smacks them upside the head enough times that they say, "oh, sure, I know it all along, but the broader narrative is true!" As evidenced by the "Tea Partiers refuse to use their intelligence to find out we're right" quote above.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Numerous studies show that common sense is on the wane.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

  • James C. Bennett||

    You're all missing the real story here:

    "Pew Research longitudinal surveys find that Gen Xers (33-47 years old) and Millennials (18-31 years old)"

    Why was no one born in 1981?

  • ||

    A lot of cocaine was going around back then. A few people just missed that year.

  • gaijin||

    Why was no one born in 1981?

    Reagan

  • JW||

    That year was cancelled due to low attendance.

  • Fate||

    *raises hand*

    I was born in 81... I can't believe the extent to which I'm being OTHERED here!

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Young people distrustful of government? So does that mean they won't believe Obama when he said this this morning:

    One of the things that I hope all of us have learned these past few weeks is that it turns out smart, effective government is important. It matters. I think the American people, during this shutdown, had a chance to get some idea of all the things, large and small, that government does that make a difference in people’s lives. You know, we hear all the time about how government is the problem. Well, it turns out we rely on it in a whole lot of ways. Not only does it keep us strong through our military and our law enforcement—it plays a vital role in caring for our seniors and our veterans, educating our kids, making sure our workers are trained for the jobs that are being created, arming our businesses with the best science and technology so they can compete with companies from other countries. It plays a key role in keeping our food and our toys and our workplaces safe. It helps folks rebuild after a storm. It conserves our natural resources. It finances startups. It helps to sell our products overseas. It provides security to our diplomats abroad. So let’s work together to make government work better, instead of treating it like an enemy.

  • sloopyinca||

    Wait, the government has been shut down recently? Holy shit, when did that happen?
    -95% of productive Americans

  • sloopyinca||

    making sure our workers are trained for the jobs that are being created citation required
    arming our businesses with the best science and technology so they can compete with companies from other countries citation required
    It plays a key role in keeping our food and our toys and our workplaces safe citation required
    It helps folks rebuild after a storm citation required
    It conserves our natural resources citation required
    It finances startups You mean "picks winners and losers".
    It helps to sell our products overseas citation required
    It provides security to our diplomats abroad As it should.
    So let’s work together to make government work better, instead of treating it like an enemy. Why? It worked for the founders.

  • grimm milo||

    "It provides security to our diplomats abroad"...unless they're stationed in Benghazi.

  • gaijin||

    Government...is there anything it can't do?

  • Invisible Finger||

    Turn a profit?

  • Tim||

    I expect Government to step in at some point and "save" several big papers. Some sort of NPR like funding scheme.

  • John||

    That is what they are hoping for. It is one of the reasons why they have become so relentlessly partisan. They only have hope for a bailout if the Democrats control all of the branches of government.

    The legacy media is dying. Newspaper staffs are a fraction of what they were even ten years ago. At this point they are willing to sell out to a full fledged fascist system of outright state controlled media in order to save their jobs.

  • Tim||

    Unionization, pensions, federal paychecks, probably some government enforced monopoly on information (as "real" journalists) why wouldn't they want that?

  • John||

    Totally. They will happily cash their checks and do, say and think exactly what the government tells them. And they will rationalize it by telling themselves that if there had not been a government takeover, real journalism and fact finding would have died.

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    OT, but I could not wait for the PM Links to share this: Researcher shocked to find positive correlation between Tea Party affiliation and science literacy

    However, those who identified as part of the tea party movement were actually better versed in science than those who didn’t, Kahan found. The findings met the conventional threshold of statistical significance, the professor said.

    Kahan wrote that not only did the findings surprise him, they embarrassed him.
    “I’ve got to confess, though, I found this result surprising. As I pushed the button to run the analysis on my computer, I fully expected I’d be shown a modest negative correlation between identifying with the Tea Party and science comprehension,” Kahan wrote.
    “But then again, I don’t know a single person who identifies with the Tea Party,” he continued. “All my impressions come from watching cable tv — & I don’t watch Fox News very often — and reading the ‘paper’ (New York Times daily, plus a variety of politics-focused internet sites like Huffington Post & Politico). I’m a little embarrassed, but mainly I’m just glad that I no longer hold this particular mistaken view.”

  • The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc||

    Nevermind, Killazontherun beat me to it. Mea culpa.

  • Killazontherun||

    You were really first, but I cheated you with time travel.

  • ||

  • ||

    And then I was 2 minutes too late pointing it out. Fuck me...

  • Paul.||

    Kahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!

  • ||

    The New York Times employs Maureen Dowd.

    And I'm supposed to take them seriously how?

  • Invisible Finger||

    All the derp that's fit to print.

  • ||

    Speaking of media, I lost my remote and my teevee is stuck on The Guy Who Looks Like a Frog Bill Cunningham Show.

  • Hyperion||

    There's a button on the side of yer teevee that will allow you to change the channel.

    You damn snappers can't do jack by yerselves!

  • Almanian!||

    You're a Great American®, Kristen! I listen to radio to fall asleep at night. He's on on Sunday nights...unlistenable....I switch to sports.

    But YOU'RE still a Great American®, Kristen!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Frog? I would have gone with possum. Also, this is why you get Netflix.

  • Paul.||

    Is the same group of young people another poll found considered their primary news source to be The Daily Show?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    inheritance taxes need to be massive or else there will be massive wealth concentration and we will end up with only rich and poor, no middle class.

    Somebody has to clean Scrooge McDuck's swimming pool.

  • kevrob||

    You know McDuck swims in his money bin, don't you?

    A pool would be an extravagance!

    Though he might have one the grandnephews could use. In that case, he'd hire Donald to clean it.

    Kevin

  • SIV||

    It's THURSDAY you fucks!

    You failed the test.

  • SugarFree||

    ^THIS^

  • Marc F Cheney||

    Was that you, SIV?

  • MJGreen||

    This new guy is clearly a regular just fucking around. It's funny.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Maybe it was YOU that failed.

    You need to come up with a troll that ruins trolling.

  • Killazontherun||

    Not me, brother. I'm clearly the Immaculate Incarnate of Non Troll Response.

  • Killazontherun||

    I avoided the site for an entire day because a lot of you assholes were responding to the new MNG.

  • Hyperion||

    Is it just me, or have the new trolls around here been beyond lame? I mean, this latest one, it has to be one of us, it can't be real. We need to work on being better fake trolls.

  • John||

    I would like to think the regulars could do a better job trolling than that. It kind of scares me to contemplate. But I think they might be real. There might actually be real people who are really that stupid.

  • Hyperion||

    You don't have to convince me of that, John. I read the comments at HuffPo.

    But I still think this new troll from today is someone here.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    Guys, it's a sockpuppet of one of us, testing our commitment to Troll Free Thursday.

    By the way, you all failed miserably. I am disappoint, although not surprise.

  • Almanian!||

    testing our commitment

    Collectivist much, Marc! Fuck off, slaver!

    /jk

  • Hyperion||

    I didn't respond to it, so give some credit where due.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    Pfft. This is one sorry excuse for a hive mind.

  • gaijin||

    Guys, it's a sockpuppet of one of us, testing our commitment to Troll Free Thursday

    So, a jerk sock?

  • Invisible Finger||

    I admit I only clicked to see why such a nothing article generated 188 comments.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    One of the things that I hope all of us have learned these past few weeks is that it turns out smart, effective government is important. It matters.

    What a fucking dummy. That's not a bubble, it's a bathysphere.

  • Hyperion||

    The most derptastic line that I have read in the last few days:

    and now the teabaggers are realizing what a good thing the ACA is...

    Really, some people are in serious need of a reality check.

  • John||

    I have had a lot of vicious debate with people like robc over the last few days about whether the response to the Obamacare disaster will be for people to finally turn on the Progs or allow the Progs to convince them to adopt single payer.

    Your piece of derp makes me think of something that neither Rob nor I thought of. In order for the whole evil adopt Obamacare so it fails and we get people to demand single payer scheme to work, progs will have to admit Obamacare is a failure. I am honestly not sure they will ever be willing to do that. They can't ever admit they are at fault for anything or that the other side might have had a point. I kind of think that maybe they will never demand single payer and instead play out a version of the old Monty Python parrot sketch where they just keep telling themselves and everyone else Obamacare is fantastic no matter what the evidence to the contrary.

    I know that sounds crazy. But they are crazy. And there really seems to be no limit to their ability to lie to themselves and deny reality.

  • Hyperion||

    Here's my take.

    It will fail miserably, it's easy to see that even now. Look at the comments from people who see the rates on the exchanges.

    'OMG! My rates are double and the deductibles are sky high! I want healthcare for everyone, but I don't want to be the one to pay for it!'

    Yeah.

    This talk about single payer. How? The Dems had a super majority in congress and had the white house. And they just crammed a bag of rotten apples down the throat of all of us. How the hell are they now going to convince everyone to trust them on a total government takeover, with the GOP holding the house? It's not even remotely possible.

  • Almanian!||

    Dude, whatev. Isn't Obama dreamy?

    They'll need to come up with someone even dreamier, more unprecedented, to keep the blind followers following.

    Ummm...I don't see Hillary being that person. Elizabeth Warren...BRRRrr no. Um...hmmm....

  • Hyperion||

    There's not going to be any single payer in the US, ever. This talk about it is just silly. We can't even pay for all of the social programs we have now. When there is no longer enough tax payers and too many takers, and we are rapidly approaching that point, no amount of good intentions or wishful thinking is going to hold up this house of cards.

  • KDN||

    Future bipartisan solution: Single-payer implemented, Medicaid/care and SCHIP eliminated, ObamaCare repealed. Republicans achieve their primary objective of ~5 election cycles, Democrats get their pony, the rest of us get fucked.

  • Invisible Finger||

    Single payer will turn into single denier.

  • John||

    I made the point on the other thread that the way this thing blows up and gives the progs the ability to demand single payer is for the insurance rate death spiral to ensure and the insurance companies start to go broke.

    The problem is that single payer would require letting the companies go broke. I am not so sure doing that would be so easy. Those are huge companies. The medical insurance companies going bankrupt would be a huge hit to the financial sector. Maybe I am wrong but I would think that that would cause some very important people to lose a lot of money and perhaps a few big institutions to go broke themselves. Might it be the case that the evil insurance companies are too big to fail? And if that is the case, single payer is just not an option. The Congress, and we know this because we saw it in 2008 with TARP, is not going to allow the financial system to fail.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Big Insurance is not the financial sector. The bleeding would be sufficiently long in duration that no bailout is necessary. Besides, the single payer utopia will not lots of additional administrators and we've already got a trained pool of workers right here...

    Single payer doesn't need a complete failure of the Barrycare system to be implemented. It will just become obvious that we can do much, much better with single payer. Oh, and have you seen our grain harvests and steel production lately?

  • Almanian!||

    progs will have to admit Obamacare is a failure

    This is a very good point John! The plot thickens...

  • BakedPenguin||

    The hard core true believers will convince themselves that Koch funded saboteurs managed to somehow destroy the holy Obamacare.

    However, this is one thing where the low information types will actually be smarter than the people who have MSDNC on 24 hours a day. They are going to see what a fuck up this is, and that they have to pay for it. Low information also means a generally low level of interest. Ironically, they will be harder to fool because they aren't as invested in it as they are invested in their own lives.

  • ||

    And let's not forget that the exchanges just force private, evil, korporashuns to sell you health insurance. FOR A PROFIT!

    Progressives will continue to blame the same thing they blame every time their plans don't work: wreckers who resisted.

  • ||

    You don't have to wait to find out how they'll phrase this. They're already saying Obamacare was the best law they could expect to pass due to republican recalcitrance. When Obamacare fails, it will be the republican party's fault.

  • Invisible Finger||

    progs will have to admit Obamacare is a failure. I am honestly not sure they will ever be willing to do that.

    John, I thought you were an optimist?

    It's only taken progs 20 years to blame Clinton's "workfare" on corporashuns. Surely Obamacare's failure will be blamed on Republicans (if it hasn't already) so they just HAVE to turn it into single-denier.

    You need to lower your expectations of prog derpitude.

  • Hyperion||

    No amount of progderp is going to magically get single payer, with the GOP having control of either house. It's a non-starter. And by the time this clusterfuck of the ACA is in full gear, the resistance to anything else they try to do with healthcare will be way stronger than it is now.

    I am pretty pessimistic on most things. But they have had their chance on healthcare for a long time to come.

  • John||

    Maybe. But that is not as easy as it sounds. They have so much of their sense of smugness invested in this. Obama is the first black President. He is one of them. He went to Harvard. Obamacare is the signature accomplishment of the greatest orator and best President ever. It is going to be really hard to admit it is a disaster I don't care how fun it is to blame the Republicans.

    Your guess is as good as mine about what their reaction is going to be. These people are totally insane and Obamacare failing is something so traumatic that there is no telling what they will do.

  • Killazontherun||

    The California Miracle Comeback stories from last summer proved that to be the case in spades.

  • John||

    Yes. And before that there was at least 20 years of "Detroit is on the come back and has really fixed things this time" stories. As late as 2012, the Progs had convinced themselves that Obama had saved Detroit and that it was just a few years away from being what it was.

  • Jordan||

    Um, they're blaming Detroit's failures on capitalism. They will find a way to blame the Market. In fact, Shriek already claims that Obamacare is market-based.

  • ChrisO||

    I suspect it won't be an overnight change, but a slow mutation of Obamacare into something resembling single-payer. They'll try to put out one fire at a time rather than doing another big initiative.

    Essentially, the restrictions and demands on insurers will slowly become more onerous. This will fewer of them existing, and the ones that do will effectively be government-run companies.

    The more interesting question is whether single-payer is simply a way station on the journey to a National Health-type system.

  • John||

    That is a more realistic view of what they will try to do. And it might work. But, the insurance companies are not without power. And they are not going to easily go along with such measures.

  • Almanian!||

    Nice bathysphere reference, PB!

    /Trieste

  • Warty||

    This is all true. Take this crowd, for example. Reasonoids are some of the best informed people around, and we get all our news from H&R and Pornhub.

  • Almanian!||

    Um, don't forget...cough*Chat Roulette*cough

  • Troy muy grande boner||

    Here is a data point on the death of the traditional media meme. Recently, Good Morning America, which I realize is a stretch to call news but it is old media, did a hit piece on Jenna Marbles. Jenna Marbles is a youtube personality that does the weekly videos that are more Three Stooges than Immanuel Kant. And there was butthurt on the internet.

    http://www.leakynews.com/inter.....e-tv-star/

    The GMA article obviously couldn't grasp the difference between 10 million subscribers and one billion views. Television doesn't seem to get that we now get to pick our entertainment and don't have to accept the smug crap that they offer.

  • John||

    The big media companies have totally their value added. What they used to offer was production value and access. If I was a talented artist, I couldn't make my own show at home and even if I could there was no way to broadcast it. Now, you can make your own show at home and you can broadcast it, so what does ABC bring to the table?

    The same thing is happening even more so in music. Take the example of the singer Katelyn Benton. I won't vouch for her music, but I think her example is the future of the music industry. She is a 20 something Berkley college of music graduate who made a youtube video and used that to launch a kick starter campaign which financed her first record. Being a very hot blond, she then got Esquire to let her pose on their me in my place website. Thanks to that she now has a critical mass of people who know about her. Chances are her music won't connect. But if it does, enough people have seen it to create a critical mass. She has what in the 1970s was that DJ in Houston who liked our record and played it. No record company required. At this point, why would she even sign a "sell us 90% of everything you make ten record" recording contract if she were offered one? She can sell her music online through her own record label and keep all of the money herself.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Recently, Good Morning America, which I realize is a stretch to call news but it is old media, did a hit piece on Jenna Marbles. Jenna Marbles is a youtube personality that does the weekly videos that are more Three Stooges than Immanuel Kant.

    I have never seen a Jenna marbles youtube, but the NYT did a profile on her which made her sound pretty sharp, although she apparently folded like a two dollar pup tent over charges of "teaching impressionable young grrrls teh Bad Stuff".

  • kevrob||

    Re: this:

    Radio is the traditional news source that has held its own the best among the younger cohorts as they have aged. Fully 38 percent of Xers say they got news from radio “yesterday” and 27 percent of Millennials said the same. Both measures are little changed since the middle of the last decade.

    I'm astounded. I'm in my 50s, and am roundly derided by younglings for listening to the radio at all. Besides the NYC all-news AMers, I tend to listen to local college radio for music (WFUV fro NYC, WNHU in CT, frex) and the occasional semi-decent commercial station. (WEHM Manorville NY, WMRQ Waterbury CT). A friend of mine who DJs thinks I'm a dinosaur because I grouse about jocks not backselling tracks - my receiver should display the title for me.

    Supposably, everybody under 40 is getting their radio needs supplied by to Pandora and Spotify, except when Hurricane Sandy hit, or we got 3 feet of snow and local AM coffeepots became relevant again.

    Who is in this radio demo - younger sports nuts hooked on The Fan, and/or dittoheads and their ilk?

    Kevin

  • John||

    Sports fans, ditto heads, and housewives listening to light rock or country music. That pretty much encompasses the radio demographic these days.

  • Habeas Dorkus||

    I didn't need any further justification for why the fuck I left print journalism after a 20-year career in it, but I'll take it.

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