Brickbat: Are You Some Sort of Pervert?

Esthr / photo on flickrEsthr / photo on flickrWhen a single dad signed his daughter up for females-only swim lessons at Toronto's Dennis R. Timbrell Recreation Centre, he didn't realize just how seriously staff took that "females only" stuff. Chris, whose last name wasn't reported by local media, said that when the two arrived at the center he was informed he would not be allowed to watch the lessons. He said that nothing on the city's website, where he'd signed up for the lessons, mentioned that. City aquatics director Anne Jackson said the females-only classes are designed to accomodate the "cultural and religious practices and requirements" of some residents. Don't worry, the city also offers males-only classes, and the mothers of boys who take them aren't allowed to watch.

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  • ||

    Female-only swim programs began 20 years ago on the basis of “accommodating cultural and religious practices and requirements,” confirmed city aquatics manager Anne Jackson.

    “Without a female-only program, there would be women that wouldn’t be able to participate in swimming,” Jackson said. “This is the way it needs to be in order to accommodate the programs. We’re not opening the door to one cultural group only — this is all females we’re accommodating.”

    All females who would be honor killed if it was discovered that they were seen by a male in a swimming suit at age five, that is.

  • some guy||

    I can see a need for this type of service. I would be upset if I were forced to subsidize it, though.

  • ||

    fucking baptists..

  • db||

    Cut to training montage scene where Tom Hanks/Dustin Hoffman/Robin Williams/David Cross "outfits" Chris for his undercover surveillance.

  • InlineSkate||

    As a Libertarian is this something i'm supposed to be upset about?

    I guess I understand that there needs to be a more clear and concise description, but I understand the accommodations. Especially if there is one for males as well.

  • Cyto||

    Yeah, this sounds like the kind of thing I'd support in the name of liberty. It might be silly, but if people want to swim in sex-segregated classes that should be an issue of freedom of association, just like the women-only gyms that popped up about years back.

    When I was a kid they had men-only periods at the YMCA pools. This was after the Y was open to women - I'm not that old. Some of the old-timers would swim sans trunks. I wasn't old enough to understand the implications of a bunch of naked dudes hanging out at the Y at the time, but I still found it weird. We never attended those sessions and they ended while I was very young. Still, if you build a pool and that's your thing - more power to you.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    So a father cannot watch his own child during lessons is a libertarian outcome?

    "Separate but equal" to accommodate one particular religious group is a libertarian outcome?

  • Bill||

    As long as there are other classes at similar times he could enroll his daughter in I don't see a huge problem, even in a public facility.

  • Rasilio||

    As long as the owner of the pool is free to set it's rules however they like it is a libertarian outcome. If he doesn't like the rules he is free to seek out a different pool to enroll his daughter or start an aquatic center on his own.

    In this case the fact that the aquatic center is owned by the city is irrelevant unless there is a law or zoning ruling which would prevent any competing aquatic centers from opening in said city.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Based on similar municipal pools, it's not paying taxes and likely has access to tax funded resources that a private owner would not.

  • Jordan||

    No, it's not irrelevant. Government has no business accommodating the idiotic superstitions of religious retards.

  • Almanian!||

    Part of me agrees - part of me says a public facility shouldn't be prevent a parent of either sex from "watching" their kid.

    Yeah, I have the option of not participating. So because I want to keep an eye on my minor kids, I get shut out to accommodate your religious preference? Nice.

    If it's a private pool? Knock yourself out. A public one? Fuck your religious hangups - put a pool in yor place of worship, you 4th-century regressive prick.

  • InlineSkate||

    Just to note I don't necessarily agree with the policy on my own principles.

    Just that I didn't believe it necessarily violates libertarian values.

    I definitely see your point though.

  • Counterfly||

    Yeah, get rid of the 'public property' part and this situation completely resolves itself.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Funny how that fixes so many of these "controversy" stories.

  • Almanian!||

    Understand - and I'll just note, again, that I don't call myself a "libertarian". I'm just all about "leave me the fuck alone, and I guarantee I'll leave you alone". And less to no government is preferable.

    So, pretty libertarian-y...:)

  • ||

    Please, the preferred word is libertarianish.

  • anarch||

    4th-century

    Muḥammad sez:

    I'm not that old.
  • Almanian!||

    [insert whichever century works]

  • Ted S.||

    Mohammed wouldn't use Christian time reckoning.

  • anarch||

    A fortiorio, then, wouldn't he deny being an 11th-century fox [4th-century by his reckoning]?

    There's no smugness like revealed smugness.

  • Ted S.||

    But then he would say "I'm not that young", not "I'm not that old".

  • anarch||

    There's that.

    The Apostle of Allah said: Do not pluck out gray hair. If any believer grows a gray hair in Islam, he will have light on the Day of Resurrection.

    ~ Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al-'As

  • RBS||

    If it's a private pool? Knock yourself out. A public one? Fuck your religious hangups - put a pool in yor place of worship, you 4th-century regressive prick.

    This and the father would agree:
    Chris, 38, told the Toronto Sun Friday. “I don’t think religion has a role to play in a public pool.”

  • bendover||

    RBS - this problem is easy enough to solve.

    The public pool could rent the facility to a private organization - they have the ability to set the boundaries of use for the hour or so of the rental period. Happens all the time.

  • WomSom||

    Wow thats pretty messed up man!

    www.Web-Anon.tk

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    WAR ON SINGLE PARENTS.

  • Almanian!||

    Women, minorities hurt most.

    Also: MALE GAZE

  • Counterfly||

    Bomb suspect shot dead in Boston, another one in a Bruce Willis style chase.

  • Almanian!||

    I couldn't sleep last night and heard this starting somewhere aroud 4:00am Eastern time - wow. My sister lives in a Boston 'burb, teaches at a univ in Boston. High times in the Baked Bean city. My first concern was whether alleged perp #2 was running around in HER town...no.

    Bet all those people who turned in their guns voluntarily cause "no one NEEDS a Glock 17" are really happy about now...

    I hope this MF is detained with no further injuries or loss of life, incl his own.

  • Ted S.||

    Brickbat: Are You Some Sort of Pervert?

    Oh, Charlie, this is H&R. We're all some sort of pervert here.

  • some guy||

    Isn't that part of the definition of "libertarian".

  • ||

    I'm surprised this wasn't a honey trap for the next anal thread, or whatever the next most kinky thing is after anal and rimming.

  • Almanian!||

    You know who else likes to go swimming? (perfectly SFW, children, etc.)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....BECB03E71A

  • H. ReardEn||

    This kid is done with swimming.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0m6pkc1yqE

  • Mickey Rat||

    This a clash of political correctnesses. The rec center feels obligated to offer sex segregated classes for Muslims and other culturally like minded people, but cannot bring themselves to state openly up front that that is who the class is for.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Do they have a class for undecided gender?

  • Copernicus||

    There is a conflict here:

    1. Some parents may enroll their daughter in such a class since they don't want their kid's body exposed to some other male's eyes. Sure, for most us it is hyper-conservative, but so be it.
    2. Those same parents, if they are so protective, must want to be on the scene to ensure that their kid is in fact being properly sheltered, the lady teaching the class isn't molesting them, etc.

    So, how can you monitor your kid for safety and yet not "intrude".

    Kind of a Heisenberg Principle situation, doncha know?

  • LTC(ret) John||

    I dunno, can Schrodinger's cat swim?

  • Virginian||

    This would be met with a 1st Amendment challenge here, right?

  • Ted S.||

    I don't think so. There's no suggestion that atheist women can't use the pool during women-only hours.

  • Virginian||

    Except this policy is a blatant accommodation of a religious belief on coed swimming. I don't think the ACLU would stand for it.

  • Baal||

    The other side of the pool being public is that, as with other public goods, public pools can crowd private ones out of the market by virtue of lower (subsidized) prices. That may not be an issue in a city as large as Toronto, but I've seen it happen elsewhere.

    Given that the city is already going down this wrong-headed path, couldn't one argue
    that the public interest is sufficient reason to at least *allow* sex-segregated lessons at a public pool (perhaps offered by an outside party.)

  • Baal||

    meant to say
    "public interest in preventing drownings"

  • Rich||

    I trust that the pool was installed by women and that all the maintenance is performed by females.

  • Copernicus||

    "In God We Trust"

    Didn't you read the article?

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