52 Percent of Americans Want Government To 'Redistribute' Wealth

Reason 24/7Reason"That's not fair," is the plaintive cry of every toddler ever born, though my own son quickly memorized my constant response: "Not getting your way isn't the same as 'unfair.'" I may need five minutes alone with the American public, however, since many of my countrymen apparently think it's "unfair" that other people have more money than them — and they want the government to give them some of what the other guy has.

From Politico:

Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say wealth is distributed unfairly in the United States, and a majority want the federal government to play Robin Hood to fix the problem, according to a poll released Thursday.

Only 33 percent of Americans think the current distribution of wealth in this country is fair, according to the Gallup Poll, while 59 percent say it is not. Fifty-two percent said the United States should redistribute wealth through heavy taxes on the rich, while 45 percent disagreed.

While the percent of Americans who said the current distribution of wealth is unfair is down from 68 percent in 2008, the number of Americans who favor federal redistribution is at an all-time high.

For what it's worth, at 59 percent, the number of Americans insisting that the distribution of wealth is unfair is far from a high, and closer to the low end of recorded opinion on the matter. According to Gallup's Frank Newport:

The range in the percentage saying wealth should be "more evenly distributed" has been relatively narrow over time, from a low of 56% in 2000 to a high of 68% in April 2008.

But if the propotion of Americans screaming "unfair" is relatively low, compared to where it has been, the percentage demanding redistributionist taxes has crept up. Says Newport, "Responses to this question have varied within a fairly small range since Gallup began to ask it in 1998, from a low of 45% favoring tax-based redistribution that year to today's 52%, which by one percentage point is the highest measured."

That's not a huge surge in support for swiping other people's stuff, but it is a move in the wrong direction for anybody who values a free and dynamic society in which people who innovate and work hard get to enjoy the fruit of their labors. Then again, if the United States becomes a country that punishes success, and so drives the ambitious elsewhere, or underground, perhaps the resulting leveling downward will be perceived as more ... fair.

Follow this story and more at Reason 24/7.

Spice up your blog or Website with Reason 24/7 news and Reason articles. You can get the widgets here. If you have a story that would be of interest to Reason's readers please let us know by emailing the 24/7 crew at 24_7@reason.com, or tweet us stories at @reason247.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • Sevo||

    I'm gonna put money on a 'corrected' lede:
    "52 Percent of Americans Want Government To 'Redistribute' *Someone Else's* Wealth".
    This is the same sort of tripe that lead to Obozocare; the polls asked 'do you want cheaper medical care?', 'do you want insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions?', etc.
    Not a single one asked 'do you know what any of this will cost YOU?'.
    And so that hag Pelosi got her victory lap. And we lost.

  • josh||

    that's why too many polls are worthless anymore really as a measure of what people actually want.....really want. if you don't provide context, people are going to approve of almost anything that they're the least bit curious about or think might make them happy.

  • prolefeed||

    I suspect, unlike Obamacare, most people have a rough idea of whether they would be the victims or beneficiaries of more govt theft.

  • Dweebston||

    I doubt they have, actually. In fact, I think most taxpayers think it inconceivable that they could be called on to pay any more than they are.

  • Adam||

    I'm with Dweeb on this one. Most people really believe all we need is the "right people" in office and once we find, support and elect them they'll start to make "things right". They'll make sure that only people who "really need" help get it, that the welfare state is only a "safety net". Our problem isn't that we have "too much government", but that we have the wrong people in office. Higgs "ratchet effect" and "the frog in the boiling water" is really the two sides of the same coin.

    Even my dearly beloved (and recently departed) grandfather would try this one on me.

    And yes, FDR really brought us out of the recession.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Wealth distribution really isn't all that fair, but it is caused by Tony's racist and cronyist policies.

  • yonemoto||

    exactly. I think wealth distribution is unfair, but having the government fix it is like having the fox guard the hens - the government is the reason why wealth distribution is unfair in the first goddamn place.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Again, I'm always surprised at how shortsighted people are. If you think the government can just redistribute wealth, why not ask the government to just mail you your wealth in lieu of actually earning it?

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    They do.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    Well, yeah. I guess some of them do. But I'm talking about the portion of the observed percentage of Americans who want the government to redistribute wealth, but at the same time think of themselves as people committed to working for a living. I mean, why work when you can simply ask the glorious government to just take care of you? Or are you just a mindless, selfless cog in the machine?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    OT: Wild Brooklyn melee erupts as NYPD arrests Muslim teen for allegedly taunting Jewish subway ride

    Now the teen was wrong for flipping out of course, but you have to admit the Jewish guy was a dick. The teen and a group of his friends went up to the man and greeted him with "assalamu alaikum" (peace be unto you) The polite thing to do was to say "wa alaikum salaam" (and unto you peace) back. Or if he couldn't figure out the correlation between the Arabic greeting of "salam alaikum" and the Hebrew greeting of "shalom aleichem", then a simple "hello" would have sufficed.

    But he chose to ignore him, but, whatever, it's New York; fine I get that. However, when the teen said "You think you're better than me? We are cousins." The man dickishly replied "No, we're not." Whether the guy likes it or not, Arabs and Jews are cousins, all the way back to Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Hagar, and Ishmael. And even if one is not Arab, theologically, it can't be denied that Judaism and Islam are cousin faiths.

    In short, while the teen had no right to become enraged and start shouting anti-Semitic slurs, in my opinion, he was correct in his assertion that the man was disrespectful to him.

  • Drave Robber||

    off-topic - an old Soviet joke:

    Brezhnev visiting Central Asian republics. Someone from the crowd shouts:
    - Salam aleikum!
    - Aleikum salam, - Brezhnev responds.
    - Salam aleikum!
    - Aleikum salam!
    Someone from the crowd:
    - Arhipelag Gulag!
    - Gulag Arhipelag!

  • Sevo||

    1980's Chinese joke:
    Guy goes to local official office to deal with official:
    "I am not happy! I want to speak with Mao!"
    Official in official office says "Mao's dead."

    Next day, guy goes to local official office to deal with official:
    "I am not happy! I want to speak with Mao!"
    Official in official office says "Mao's dead."

    Next day, guy goes to local official office to deal with official:
    "I am not happy! I want to speak with Mao!"
    Official in official office says "Look, I told you Mao's dead!"
    Guy says: "Yeah, I just love to hear it!"

  • Drave Robber||

    (the plot probably borrowed from O. Henry)
    Some guy, for some reason, wanted to go to jail. He went to the local Communist party committee and shouted:
    - Listen, Brezhnev's an idiot!
    - Hush, don't spill state secrets, - same an answer.

  • Sevo||

    So Brezhnev takes his mother to see his dachas, homes, hunting ranges and his car collection. And he finally asks her what she thinks.
    "Leonid. This is all wonderful! But what happens if the Communists come back to power?"

  • Drave Robber||

    Well, I'm amused how old Soviet-era jokes become relevant again. E.g. the last one of these ("everything for the good of the man").

  • Sevo||

    "he was correct in his assertion that the man was disrespectful to him."

    Not sure what this really means.
    Want my respect? Well, earn it. Other than that it's a neutral call.

  • John||

    THIS. I hate that "Respect me" shit. Go fuck yourself you little punk.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I believe that in our daily dealings with one another, we should have a certain baseline level of respect for each other until an individual proves they are not worthy of it.

    If you greet someone and they don't even dignify it with a response, that is a clear sign of disrespect.

  • John||

    Maybe maybe not. Maybe the person doesn't speak English and doesn't know how to respond. Maybe they didn't hear you or are deep in thought. It is nice to give a greeting back. But you are not owed one and not getting one doesn't give someone the license to act like a jackass.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    But you are not owed one and not getting one doesn't give someone the license to act like a jackass.

    I agree. I'm not arguing against that.

  • Sevo||

    Heroic Mulatto| 4.18.13 @ 9:53PM |#
    "If you greet someone and they don't even dignify it with a response, that is a clear sign of disrespect."

    Uh, and?
    If someone isn't courteous to you, the answer is a prompt 180.
    It is not the world's duty to make me feel 'respected'.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    If someone isn't courteous to you, the answer is a prompt 180.

    It is not the world's duty to make me feel 'respected'.

    I agree. The crux of my point is @ 9:58

  • Ted S.||

    Coming out of nowhere and saying "You think you're better than me? We are cousins." is respectful?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't agree it's out of nowhere. The dude said "hello" and the other guy didn't even look up to respond. That's usually a social cue of "You're not worthy of my response".

    Again, I'm not defending the kid. He clearly has some rage issues, but the other guy was impolite.

    In some corners of the WWW, this news story is getting play as "Irrational dark-skinned Muslim savage launches into rage for no reason on Jewish guy," my observation is that it's a bit more nuanced than that.

  • Ted S.||

    It could be a cue that the person remaining silent is Finnish.

    And the guy didn't say "hello"; he said something in a foreign language.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And the guy didn't say "hello"; he said something in a foreign language.

    C'mon, son! The guy was wearing a yarmulka. As I mentioned above the difference between the Arabic greeting and the Hebrew is as close as the difference between the French "bonjour" and the Italian "bonjourno".

  • An0nB0t||

    Wait, what?

    "The melee began when suspect Stephan Stowe, 17, and a group of eight friends approached a Jewish man wearing a yarmulke aboard a Brooklyn-bound 3 train just before 3 p.m. Monday, police sources said Wednesday."

    So you're on the subway and NINE teenagers come up to you and say, well, anything, and the proper response is to engage them in conversation?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    So you're on the subway and NINE teenagers come up to you and say, well, anything, and the proper response is to engage them in conversation?

    I get your point, but in this case it seems like it would have been the proper response, as not responding sent him into a Hulk-rage.

    It's also telling that the other eight didn't do much of anything when the kid flew into a rage. I mean if they meant the man harm, wouldn't they have joined in and perhaps started a beatdown?

  • General Butt Naked||

    Sounds like they were looking for a fight. Good thing Bernie Goetz spends his days feeding pigeons away from the subways.

  • An0nB0t||

    That's my take as well. The kid was looking to announce his presence with authority in front of his friends and decided to confront a random jew who he took to be an easy mark; it's not as though he was a sweet kid who endured a horrific insult and decided to threaten a stranger's life and steal his phone. I'd file this in the same category as a random teenager walking up to you on the street one night and asking to borrow a dollar: it's a move that virtually everyone recognizes as aggressive, and it almost always portends something bad that's to follow.

    I wouldn't advise anyone to speak to this kind of thug: stare them down in the most aggressive/insane fashion imaginable, lace your keys between your fingers, but don't open your mouth and invite a verbal escalation.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    The arab kid obviously had some demons regarding religion- not that the jew didn't. But "politeness" that is really a charade for insecurity is rightly construed as starting shit.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Nah, I'm not feeling it. I'd agree with you if this happened at 3 A.M. on a mostly deserted subway car, but this occurred at 3 P.M. on a subway car filled with other passengers.

    Now again, I'm not saying the kid isn't a thug. His reaction makes that obvious. And I agree with you that you shouldn't invite a verbal escalation. However, I believe that not responding to a greeting, is going to escalate things more than responding.

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think the kid was looking to start shit at the beginning. I dunno.

  • prolefeed||

    Perhaps, given how things turned out, the non-response was due to an accurate appraisal that the kid was wound waaay too tight?

    If someone seems friendly, I'll usually reciprocate -- if they seem hostile, a cold staredown seems like the safer bet to avoid an escalation. Not always, but usually.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Its like a drunk guy at a bar trying to "squash beef" with somebody when what they are really doing is bringing old business back up.

  • An0nB0t||

    Going purely from anecdotal experience here, but in college I had a few run-ins with some "tough" southies who wanted to dedicate their T ride to starting shit with a tall white guy and his tiny asian girlfriend, and they're more than happy to do it in the middle of the day. The confrontation is almost exactly the same every time: they get too physically close for comfort, address you in ways that are obviously inappropriate for anyone who's ridden public transportation for more than a minute ("where are you going?" "Hey, how ya doing?"), and in general do whatever they can to create a sense of subtle menace. The fact that you're tall and it's the middle of the day just adds to their sense of self-worth and courage.

    Nothing ever came of any of them, and I'm 100% certain that's because my posture and expression made it clear that I was more than willing to shove my keys or pocket knife into their soulless little Red-Sox fan hearts. Not that I'd have won any fight, but that the price would've been far too high.

    I'm not one to be a macho tuff gai most of the time, but there is literally no scenario in which I can imagine that it would be wise to engage someone who is actively menacing you or give him cause to think that I'm not 100% prepared to respond to physical instigation with something sharp and pointy (or, now that I'm not in MA, something a little more effective) in a heartbeat.

  • An0nB0t||

    (cont)

    To be honest, I'm surprised that there are men and libertarians in particular who would disagree with that approach. Maybe I come from rougher stock than some of my fellow Reasonoids, but circumstances like the one in the article or that I experienced in college make me want to crucify the person who finds humor in bullying and intimidating an innocent, and I can't imagine how it would help things to reinforce their aggression with passivity or a lame response that would almost certainly egg them on.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Agree.

  • ||

    I hardly ever am dumb enough to ride public transport like a poor person, and when I do, hardly ever tries to talk to me. On the rare occasions that someone has been disrespectful like this little dickhead, a blank stare and my traps have served to make them go away.

  • ||

    a blank stare and my traps have served to make them go away.

    Is that some kind of euphemism for you raping them body, mind, and soul in broad daylight?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I'm usually carried around on a litter.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think the kid was looking to start shit at the beginning. I dunno.

    Why say anything at all? I'm in a much smaller and safer city than NYC and big groups of teens aren't going out of their way to outreach in interfaith dialogue with strangers on public transportation. And the kind of people that make contact with strangers out of friendliness aren't the type to flip out if their greeting is rebuked.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And the kind of people that make contact with strangers out of friendliness aren't the type to flip out if their greeting is rebuked.

    Hey, when I was 17 and stupid, if I said hello to someone and they ignored me, I'd probably follow with a "hey, fuck you too, buddy," as well.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think the kid was looking to start shit at the beginning. I dunno.

    He sure went from a "friendly" greeting to shouting anti-Semitic stuff in a hurry. Looks like a shit starter to me.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    I have been in the uncomfortable situation of not knowing whether a foreign was trying to speak to me or if they were talking to themselves. So I tried to ignore them.

    Ignoring would be my policy on the heady ass New York subway.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Uh... Dude, have you ever been to New York? Engaging a stranger in conversation on the subway is not advisable.

    -jcr

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Coming out of nowhere and saying "You think you're better than me? We are cousins." is respectful?

    Yeah, god forbid the Arab should remind the Jew of that little bit of ancestral history.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Tribalism sure is entertaining.

  • Celebrate Diversity||

    Isn't diversity wonderful? All those wonderful benefits like exotics restaurants and... uh... uh...
    Well, there's always this oldie but goodie...

  • B.P.||

    So there's a guy in this story, accompanied by 8 friends, confronting a Jewish guy who wants to mind his own business. Our protagonist ends up yelling "I'm going to kill you right now" and "they should have killed all of you" to the Jewish guy, and the Jewish guy is being dickish?

    "Whether the guy likes it or not, Arabs and Jews are cousins (blah, blah)".

    I'm pretty sure the guy wasn't there to engage in some fruitful historical/theological dialogue.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "As the tension aboard the train escalated, the [Jewish] man whipped out his cell phone and took a photo of Stowe, who then snatched the phone and deleted the photo, police sources said.

    ""I'm going to kill you right now," Stowe said, according to cops and court records. He then swore at the man, according to cops and court records, and in an apparent reference to the Holocaust added, "They should have killed all of you."

    "The man managed to swipe his phone back from Stowe and ran to alert the conductor, police sources said. As the train pulled into the Eastern Parkway/Brooklyn Museum stop, cops were waiting to collar Stowe, police sources said."

    And *that* is when it started to get ugly.

    With a situation like that, what was the Jewish guy supposed to do? "Oh, he should have assumed the guy was just giving him a friendly greeting - how dare he assume that the guy might be hostile, anti-Semitic and potentially violent - that was just a coincidence!"

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....z2QsfemMre

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Jewish guy tries to ignore a guy he thinks is a thug. The thug then acts thuggishly. Oh, why can't the thug get more respect?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    and in an apparent reference to the Holocaust added, "They should have killed all of you."

    Maybe he was referring to the Babylonians.

  • cavalier973||

    This is why I never go anywhere in public without my pet wolves hanging on my shoulders.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUusEBRHgfo

  • GILMORE||

    Heroic Mulatto|4.18.13 @ 9:36PM|#Now

    the teen was wrong for flipping out of course, but you have to admit the Jewish guy was a dick

    When people come up to me and call me 'nigger' should I go, 'thanks, nigger' to be 'nice'? *i.e. 'respond in kind'?

    the kid was starting shit. do you not live in NYC? it happens every day. there's a famous, "mind your own fucking business rule" in this town. When you dont, you're purposely looking for trouble. You think orthodox jews are supposed to be 'respectful' of people fucking with them in public, a place they came to *just not to be fucked with*?

    please come visit sometime. We'll get pastrami # Katz's and make jokes about the holocaust. then go to chinatown and make jokes about chinese people having small dicks. then we'll go to morningside heights and ask every women with a baby where her 'husband' is. We'll be super popular.

  • Azathoth!!||

    The kid was trying to start trouble. There was no correct thing the guy could have said to avert it. Ignoring him--let's be honest, them--at least establishes that you did none of the antagonizing for the witnesses--because that's what everyone on the car is now, a witness. Because something bad is about to happen.

    I have been in that exact situation. The only thing you can do is try to drag it out until the train stops. Or, if you can, go goetz on them.

    Try not to side with bullying thugs.

  • Drave Robber||

    That's the beginning of the end.

    (Well, at least U.S. of A. stayed above water for a longer time than the place where I happen to live.)

  • SIV||

    "That's not fair"

    Males actually say this?
    Other than Will Wilkinson, I mean.

  • John||

    And even he says "Taint Fair" most of the time.

  • ||

    I hate the phrase. My 5th grade class was obsessed with it. Every time they'd say it I'd indicate something that was not fair in their favor and ask them to rephrase. Eventually they started saying things like "I don't like this" which is a hell of a lot more accurate.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The correct response would have been to teach them to say "that's not cricket!"

  • Generic Stranger||

    Perpetuating Cricket is a major intergalactic faux pas, dude.

  • buddhastalin||

    No, but they do say "fair share" and I want to punch someone whenever I hear it said.

  • Bam!||

    52 Percent of Americans Want Government To 'Redistribute' Wealth, so long as it isn't their wealth being redistributed.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    100% of the Americans who think that wealth is "distributed" are 100% wrong.

  • josh||

    i remember a poll from the 2012 election season, i forget by whom, but it asked americans what they thought the top tax rate should be and compared that with those who thought the rich weren't "paying their fair share", etc. turns out most of thsoe who thought they weren't paying enough thought the percentage should actually be LOWER than what it currently was. i'd like to see more polls like that. i don't think most americans have a clue of the math, they just remember the slogans.

  • Bam!||

    I remember some poll which asked the question, "If you received $10 million, how much tax should you pay?" The rate chosen was $1 million dollars, or 10%.

    Do note that the poll didn't ask for a percentage, it asked for a dollar amount.

  • buddhastalin||

    Americans are so fucking innumerate, and yet here in California we ask them to vote directly on things like multibillion dollar tax hikes and bond issuances.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah, I wonder sometimes if the poor state of our schools is intentional. Actually I think there is a South Park episode for that as well.

  • buddhastalin||

    Three-quarters of likely voters believe the nation’s top earners should pay lower, not higher, tax rates, according to a new poll for The Hill.

    The big majority opted for a lower tax bill when asked to choose specific rates; precisely 75 percent said the right level for top earners was 30 percent or below.

    The current rate for top earners is 35 percent.

    See also taxfoundation.org:

    Past surveys that have asked this question find that Americans overwhelmingly think the rich pays far less in taxes than the rich actually do. A 2008 poll by Investor's Business Daily, for example, found that 36 percent of Americans think the rich pay 10 percent or less of their income in taxes, while only 12 percent correctly answered 40 percent or more. Many Americans erroneously believe that most rich pay a lower percentage in taxes than they do. Polls that ask respondents to estimate how much rich people should pay in all taxes usually come up with percentages far lower than what they actually pay now.
  • AlmightyJB||

    Five years of class-baiting by BO will do that.

  • John||

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2.....n-bombing/

    Opinions on the two douche bags the FBI is looking for in connection with the Boston bombing? They don't look American to me. But you never know.

  • Ted S.||

    I have a feeling you don't look very American either.

  • SIV||

    I wouldn't exactly describe them as crackers.

  • John||

    Neither would I. If they are American, they most certainly are not some militia group.

  • Sevo||

    John| 4.18.13 @ 9:51PM |#
    "Neither would I. If they are American, they most certainly are not some militia group."

    John, your photo records of what folks who are "American [...] militia group" is obviously far more extensive than is mine.

  • John||

    Can you see someone in a tax protest or a militia group dressing like that? I can't. They look they came right off the streets of London. Not something you see very often here.

  • Ted S.||

    Wesley Snipes probably doesn't dress like the stereotypical militia group either.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Umm.. possibly you are reaching here, John?

  • SIV||

    Foreigners/first generation immigrants usually stand out no matter what their race or ethnicity. This mostly disappears by the second generation.
    I should add the disclaimer that as a Dixie-native, I consider Massachusetts to be a foreign country.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    In science and engineering classes, classrooms are usually segregated by amount of cologne.

  • B.P.||

    They look like they could be American to me (and as others have alluded, there is quite a bit of variance to looking American, but I get your point). Check the (unfocused, grainy) moving surveillance footage -- two young guys with baseball hats and backpacks that look like they could've wander off of any of a number of campuses in Boston. Baseball hats tend to be an American feature... but it would be easy enough to plop a hat on top of a foreign national. I'm going to stare at these grainy images for a while and see if I can jump to half-baked any conclusions. It would be helpful to know what the hat logos are (I'm sure FBI is on top of that).

  • AlmightyJB||

    Yeah I don't think you're going to get anything definative from those pictures in terms of ethnicity. That being said. Taking everything into account. Their age (mid to late 20's probably), the fact there is at least two (no lone wacko and also no specific targets of retribution ie classmates, co-workers), their dress, the MO, the timing of the explosions (set to go off way late in the race when the top competitors, many international, would be done and most of the rest would be Americans), the targets (civilians, not government, or any specific buildings or groups), and the fact that the pictures, while inconclusive certainly could be middle eastern. All that seems to me to smell like Al Qaeda. I certainly would not be shocked to find out I was wrong, but those are my initial thoughts on it. I also, wouldn't be surprised if it ends up that those two had nothing to do with it but we'll see. I think they will find out who these guys are pretty soon.

  • josh||

    not to mention, how many of those who thought it was "unfair" people had more money than them were actually thinking that a baseball player shouldn't earn more than a teacher? i don't think that's moral exactly, but i wouldn't change the system for other reasons despite this being the case. my point is you have to delve a little into the motivations behind people's thought process, and often times you get a different result, but more honest to the question asked.

  • josh||

    maybe "moral" is the wrong word....point is, despite my objection, i wouldn't change the system to make that change.

  • SIV||

    I think garbage men should earn more than teachers. I suppose if we fully privatized the employment of those two professions we'd find out if I'm right.

  • John||

    Fuck yeah the should. Being a garbage man is a tough job. Who would do it for anything other than decent wages?

  • SIV||

    I'm thinking they would earn more, for among other reasons, that a garbage collection company would prefer and reward competence, efficiency and productivity over a larger workforce of lower paid less productive workers.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Garbage men these days have it easy with them hydraulic claws and air conditioned cabs. In my day we had to earn our keep by running the scab company out of town to keep them from getting the municipal contract.

    -Teamster trash guys

  • SIV||

    My garbage men don't use hydraulic claws for anything but brush. They sling cans working both sides of busy streets simultaneously. In the dark, fog, rain, wind, sleet or whatever.They are the hardest working public sector workers I've ever seen. They take shit away that is "against the rules" or supposed to have an extra charge or a special day and never leave so much as a scrap behind.I've seen them direct traffic in bad weather and around accidents and been warned about flooded streets and downed trees after a storm.
    Those guys earn every penny and deserve more. I reserve a special hate for the local TV news when they do a hidden camera or telephoto "expose" for sweeps week of garbage men having a few beers with their takeout or brown bag lunch.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • SIV||

    Many aren't. Service is usually cheap and good when there are competitors operating in a relatively free market.
    Expensive and lousy when the municipality grants a "public-private partnership" monopoly.

  • Paul.||

    Seattle Sanitation workers make around $70,000 a year.

    http://www.kirotv.com/videos/n.....are/vc7hH/

    I seriously considered working for Seattle Sanition because I could use the humofuckinggous wage increase.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Can't see the video on my work computer. Does that include overtime?

  • Mickey Rat||

    "...how many of those who thought it was "unfair" people had more money than them were actually thinking that a baseball player shouldn't earn more than a teacher?"

    Who cares if they did?

    How many people spend money to watch the baseball player play, and how many would pay similar money to watch the teacher teach? That the result has disparities is not "unfair".

  • josh||

    it makes a great deal of difference in how I mentioned it, especially to the results/meaning of this poll.

    I don't disagree with your assessment ultimately. but, again, it's all in how you ask/think about the question. the average American can hold two competing thoughts in their head....my kids teacher should make more than Derek jeter, BUT I prefer the economic system we have, even if Derek jeter can buy my kids teacher a thousand times over.

    that might not be a large sample in this poll, but i'd be shocked if it weren't at least 2-5% minimum.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    What if I think the current distribution is unfair, but expect that it's because the government has been helping rig the game, so that their attempts to fix the problem are just going to make it even more unfair?

  • John||

    That is just it. The 52 percent are right but for the wrong reason. It is unfair. But it is unfair because people who earned their money are having it taken away and given to cronies.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Well, it's also my general opinion that without government regulation protecting them from competition, large corporations would be a lot less entrenched then they are. In a free market there would be a lot more little companies instead of a few big ones, which would result in a more equal income distribution.

  • 0x90||

    Agree 100% and would add that the democratization of manufacturing technology is bending the curve in that direction more rapidly now than ever. Just on my block, there is one guy with a one-man CNC-equipped cabinet shop, and next door to him, a guy with a one-man, two-CNC machine shop. Just think about that -- about how many people it would've taken just twenty years ago, to equal what these two guys can do cheaper, more predictably, and at a higher level of quality.

  • John||

    How about this solution? Anyone who serves as a federal appointee or in federal elective office or as a staffer for an elected official, pays a 100% tax on all income over their government salary for the first 15 years after leaving office or government service.

    That would take a lot of the fun out of things.

  • Gladstone||

    So are the responses to John or to former posts by Peyton Farquhar?

  • Gladstone||

    Damn now it looks like these posts are in response to me.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Wow, that was quick.

  • AuH20||

    They are responses to Peyton. Reason just memory wiped him.

    You missed his long tirade about how socialism is totes cool, as long as it just goes to the white race.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Well, he is Tea Party then. I don't see why Reason zapped him.

    The TP was all about protecting Medicare/SS benefits.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Whack-a-Troll!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You're next!

  • ||

    You really need to stop talking to yourself, OB. People will mistake it for making actual responses to what people say.

  • C. Anacreon||

    The TP was all about protecting Medicare/SS benefits.

    You say some pretty stupid shit sometimes, but this is by far the most ridiculous thing you've ever said. Who are you, Rachel Maddow?

  • John M.||

    I agree, at least with your point about single mothers. People can never really oppose the government if they are dependent on it, and they are part of a culture that sees that lifestyle as a human right. I am perplexed by those libertarians who think that culture is not a problem, and whine about the KULTUR WAR, as if without it the libs would be tempted to vote Republican. To have liberty, in a practical sense, requires a culture of liberty, and to have a culture of liberty requires a culture of personal responsibility, and to have a culture of personal responsibility requires a culture of cultural conservatism.

  • AuH20||

    I am perplexed by those libertarians who think that culture is not a problem, and whine about the KULTUR WAR, as if without it the libs would be tempted to vote Republican. To have liberty, in a practical sense, requires a culture of liberty, and to have a culture of liberty requires a culture of personal responsibility, and to have a culture of personal responsibility requires a culture of cultural conservatism.

    Chicken-egg buddy. Single motherhood exploded after the government began incentivizing it through welfare. Thus, you remove that incentive, and the culture will change naturally.

    You're are starting at, "We need to change the culture, and that will allow us to eliminate the welfare state because then we will have enough votes!"

    As long as the welfare state exists, you can try changing the culture all you want: It won't change. The key is to chip away at the welfare state, reduce its size as much as you can while staying in office, and let the number of people dependent on the government, and thus in that culture of dependency, slowly fall.

  • John M.||

    I have a different view of the chicken-egg. There was another thing that occurred just as single motherhood exploded, the sexual revolution. It was an ideology that encouraged single motherhood, and of course encouraged people to vote for policies friendly to it. Your point about chipping away the welfare state is only possible if you get in office, and that is going to be increasingly difficult. Just because something is incentivized doesn't make it inevitable, single motherhood is rare in, say, Mormon communities.

  • AuH20||

    I have a different view of the chicken-egg. There was another thing that occurred just as single motherhood exploded, the sexual revolution. It was an ideology that encouraged single motherhood, and of course encouraged people to vote for policies friendly to it.

    Are you really this historically ignorant?

    First point: Single motherhood in no way a new phenomenon. For a fascinating account of the sexual politics of colonial America, I would recommend Anne Orthowood's Bastard.

    Nor is unmarried sex. Prostitution was rampant and wide spread throughout the 1800s. It basically came along with the period's increasing urbanization. I mean, have you never seen a Western, where in every saloon has a whore house attached?

    Now, onto why you are wrong wrt to the sexual revolution: The sexual revolution was caused by 2 factors: The new, female controlled and easily available birth control in the form of The Pill (now, casual sex for females carried no risk of pregnancy, and they were not dependent on men using condoms to avoid pregnancy) and the massive youth generation, the Baby Boomers (young people are horny). So, rather than encourage single motherhood, the sexual revolution was based on the idea that women could have sex, for their pleasure, without worry of pregnancy.

    Cont...

  • AuH20||

    Furthermore, if you track it, single motherhood and welfare go much more closely together. The sexual revolution was well under way by 1962, but single motherhood didn't explode until the end of the 1960s, after Johnson's Great Society programs went into effect.

    Hell, as I recall, single motherhood declined after Clinton's reforms.

    Also, what group was at the forefront of the sexual revolution? Upper middle class white women. Want to know who doesn't get pregnant when single, unless they choose to? Upper middle class white women.

    When it started it was primarily black women, not sure on the demographics now, but single motherhood was and still is huge in the black community. The same community that welfare most heavily went to in its inception. Welfare, which, at its inception, gave women more money for not having the children's father around.

    It isn't something you can have a different view on, this is not a valid historical debate like "What was the cause of the Civil War?" You are simply wrong regarding the cause of single motherhood in America.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I don't think teenagers are having sex due to government policy.

  • ||

    War on Drugs.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    What do you mean by "cultural conservatism"? Especially, are you using the term in the American sense or the European sense?

  • John M.||

    I'm talking about restoring to the masses the culture that they had before the sexual revolution, on the issues of premarital sex, divorce, child-rearing, ect. While I won't say religion is required for this, it certainly doesn't hurt.

  • AuH20||

    You... really are not familiar with the culture before the sexual revolution with regard to premarital sex, are you?

    Yes, the nice middle and upper middle class people were horribly disapproving. Meanwhile, as they built the transcontinental railroad, Hell on Wheels followed them.

    The prostitutes would often just get back alley abortions or induce miscarriages should something go awry. That is why the sexual revolution should be seen by cultural conservatives as a moral good: Without it, the number of abortions, or induced miscarriages, would be staggering.

    But, no, please, continue a fight that you lost in 80s when the feminist-moralist porn crusade finally died. That's a valuable use of your time and a good hill to die on.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    on the issues of premarital sex, divorce, child-rearing, ect. While I won't say religion is required for this, it certainly doesn't hurt.

    Which religion? For example, Hinduism and Buddhism don't have much to say about premarital sex. Judaism and Islam both allow for divorce. In Buddhism, marriage isn't since as part of the realm of religion, but as purely a social tradition. So again, it doesn't have anything to say about divorce.

  • John M.||

    I just got the point of Peyton Farquhar. Are you a confederate sympathizer, Peyton?

  • ||

    Aww, I love that short story, I'm sad I didn't catch the reference.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    So in short, you're not against "socialism", you just want it to be "national". Got it.

  • Drave Robber||

    So, making fathers care for their children would be enough to avoid socialism? DNA analyses to the rescue!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    No, you haven't convinced me that your populism/producerism with all its governmental economic "protections" for the White working class isn't just "Socialism for me, but not for thee".

  • ||

    Aaaaand he's gone.

  • AuH20||

    Well, you won't get me to refrain from harmful language or personal attacks, because your a fucking Nazi fascist, you fucking Nazi fascist.

    Seriously, did you just not pay attention in biology where they showed you that race, genetically speaking, doesn't exist? Or are you stupid?

    Actually, of course you're stupid, you're a Nazi. I mean, unless you're just evil.

    However, please, go chop off your dick or sew your vag shut, you fascist Nazi asshole, so that you do the human race a favor and don't make us dumber by reproducing. That would achieve your goal of genetically improving humanity far more quickly than any other steps, or rather solutions, I am sure you are tempted to take.

  • AuH20||

    Crap, they removed the Nazi, making my posts look super weird. Not directed at you, John, obviously.

  • ||

    Yeah, your comments are just directed at the invisible Nazi. Suuuure. Totally believable.

  • Celebrate Diversity||

    I thought the counter to free speech was supposed to be more free speech. So why don't Reasonites honestly debate the Nazis instead of deleting them? Afraid of something or what?

  • John M.||

    Ya I really didn't see what was so bad about his post. His points about immigration aren't all that different from most other conservatives.

  • AuH20||

    Which is why so many conservatives sound so very racist on immigration.

  • ||

    He got banned for something several months ago, and spawns new forum handles and ip addresses to get around it. That's why he got removed, because he keeps trying to circumvent the original ban.

  • MKi||

    What did he originally get banned for?

  • Irish||

    Hardcore racism. He'd come here and post shit from American Renaissance and other white supremacist sites.

    He also has a thing where he starts ranting about the evil sluts who are destroying America with their slutginas. That was actually kind of funny though, unlike the racism.

  • Eddie||

    I don't endorse American's racial views, but I think he was right on the money on the subject of women. I guess I'm just much more conservative on cultural issues than many libertarians.

  • ||

    I wonder if I can convince some of my lady friends to refer to their genitals as slutginas. It's the best portmanteau I've heard in a while.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    OF COURSE 52% of Americans want Government to redistribute wealth. What should be asked is "Do you want the Government to get it paws on all the wealth it can and give it to Politicians and their cronies?"

    Remind people that what is going to be doing the redistribution isn't some mythical State run by the Seraphim, but the government they are used to dealing with, run by humans.

    For Christ's sake, stop making the "People who earn a lot of money often deserve it" argument; it's a non-starter. Make the "What on earth makes you think that putting more power and money in the hands of those bastards in Washington, the State Capitol, and City Hall is going to do anything but make you miserable?" argument.

  • Paul.||

    Because the right people are in charge. Sheesh. You set yourself up for that one.

  • Incredulous||

    So Romney was wrong? It's not 47%, it's 52%! No wonder he lost the election.

    Give me my free shit!

  • Mike M.||

    At least Reason didn't get ridiculously carried away with a bunch of feigned outrage over his comment. Hold on a second...

  • Caleb Turberville||

    I will defend Reason from a lot of the criticisms, but not this one. Romney's comment was still asinine in its tone-deafness, but he wasn't incorrect in general.

  • Calidissident||

    Romney was incorrect in assuming that the 47% that doesn't pay income taxes is the same 47% that isn't going to vote for him. I don't even think his broader point was even correct. Social Security, Medicare, and the military are the three most expensive programs in the country (combined make up around half of federal spending, if not more), and in general the people dependent on those things tend to vote Republican

  • Paul.||

    Only 52%? That's some bullshit. I put it around 89-96%.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Of course it is if SS/Medicare is rightly perceived as part of wealth redistribution.

    This is one big reason I am anti-GOP. Their welfare queens (the elderly) cost 7x more than the Dems welfare queens.

  • Jordan||

    Yeah, the Democrats are totally against Medicare. Fuck, you're stupid.

    And the elderly favored Democrats until 2006.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    And Obama is cutting SS/Medicare.

    Another reason to support him for libertarians.

  • Jordan||

    While more than making up for it with Obamacare.

  • PapayaSF||

    Except that the elderly welfare queens don't commit crimes and don't have babies that commit crimes, so their overall social cost is far less.

  • MissMalevolent||

    Redistribute wealth...just as long as it's not my wealth!

    Crabs in a barrel....

  • Alice Bowie||

    U rich people better WATCH OUT !!!

    We r just raising the marginal Tax rate for rich people by a mere 3%...Not taking 20% from the savings account.

    Remember, we can always aid in fixing the Social Security problem by eliminating the FICA Cap. This way, rich people will pay more in FICA than they would ever collect...if we let them college.

    FACE IT GUYS ... THE BUMS WON !!!!!!!!!

  • AuH20||

    Okay, one issues: was it really that hard to add the letters y, o, a, and e to your post, so it doesn't begin like a tween on twitter is writing it?

  • ||

    The downtrodden poor don't have the time or education for spelling. The rich have stolen all that from them.

  • Jordan||

    Reminds me of Ohio Orrin, aka o2, aka urine. What ever happened to him? He was a better class of troll.

  • AuH20||

    Herc was the best class of troll.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Heh; I'd forgotten about that 'tard. I don't think he made it past registration.

  • AlmightyJB||

    "Ohio Orrin"

    I thought that's who palins buttplug was?

  • KDN||

    No, that's shrike. Ohio Orrin, aka O2, aka O3, aka tha rael o2, aka urine, never made it past registration. Successfully typing in a password was above his abilities.

  • KDN||

    .38 / .35 =/= .03.

    hth

    Remember, we can always aid in fixing the Social Security problem by eliminating the FICA Cap.

    The best way to fix an unjust system is to make it more unjust. It's the American way!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    We r just raising the marginal Tax rate for rich people by a mere 3%...Not taking 20% from the savings account.

    Right--because going after IRAs isn't going after savings.

    Remember, we can always aid in fixing the Social Security problem by eliminating the FICA Cap

    Wrong. That obligates Social Security to make greater payouts on the back end. Try doing 5th grade math sometime.

  • ||

    Wealth distribution won-t be fair until we have both a true free market and a level legal playing field. The government redistribution of wealth in WHY the distribution of wealth is unfair. The wealthy get the perks of cronyism and the resources to maneuver and benefit from a fucked up statist market. The poor get enticed into cycles of permanent government dependency and thus permanent stagnation and poverty. The rest of us have to pay for it.

  • Aresen||

    Nearly 6 in 10 Americans say wealth is distributed unfairly in the United States, and a majority want the federal government to play Robin Hood to fix the problem, according to a poll released Thursday.

    This is actually a very messy question and statement, since it begs the question of what most people believe to be a "fair" distribution.

    For some, anything other than absolute egalitarianism - everyone gets paid exactly the same amount - is "unfair". This group is composed mainly of college professors, political commenters and politicians who earn much more than the average and lumpen-proletariat types who will go to any lengths to avoid working.

    Another group is defines "unfair" as "anyone who earns more than I do". This group is distributed throughout the bottom nine deciles.

    The largest group is people who simply feel sorry for people who live on much less than they do and think that "the rich" (but generally not themselves) should be taxed to provide more for the poor. (I feel sorry for people living on low incomes, but I don't agree others should be taxed to give unearned income to the poor.)

    The poll, however, conflates all such groups. This is very useful for politicians who can always use people's natural compassion to push for an ever-expanding state.

  • Kuze||

    Excellent comment

  • Hyperion||

    For some, anything other than absolute egalitarianism - everyone gets paid exactly the same amount - is "unfair". This group is composed mainly of college professors

    I've never actually met a college professor, and I've met a lot of them, who was not 100% convinced that they should get paid more, and have more job security and benefits, than everyone else, despite their rhetoric.

    Talk about the ultimate hypocrites. Well, ok, politicians may have them beat.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I've never actually met a college professor, and I've met a lot of them, who was not 100% convinced that they should get paid more, and have more job security and benefits, than everyone else, despite their rhetoric

    Er...I'm not. Though, I wouldn't mind making more money.

  • Hyperion||

    Dude, if you're a prof, you better be sending me some extortion fees now, before I out you to your comrades in the red faculty gestapo, for being on a libertarian blog, and they excommiemunicate you.

    Ha, I just made a new word.

  • Hyperion||

    Oh, and I wouldn't mind making more money also, but my 2% raises keep getting wiped out by imaginary inflation

    /Krugman

    and Obamacare 'savings on health care'.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Why do you think I use a nom de blog?

  • ||

    Because that's what all the cool commenters do?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    DO WHAT NOW?

  • Hyperion||

    Are you telling me that Heroic Mulatto is not your real name? Are others doing this also?

    I'm embarrassed, both because I only have one name, where others have 2 or more, and it's a weird name!, and I used my real name here!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    You're using a fake name?
    I feel betrayed.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    A mononym? You're obviously Indonesian.

    How was Barry in school? I bet he was an insufferable prick.

  • Hyperion||

    No, I'm from the planet Hyperion, where everyones name is Hyperion.

    But it's not a problem, because you see like you Earthlings, we don't all look alike.

  • Hyperion||

    unlike you Earthlings...

  • AlmightyJB||

    Is that what the Oracle told you?

  • ||

    PLEASE, HM, everyone knows REAL colleges don't have libertarians. Who do you think you're fooling here?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Hey, Clown College needs professors too!

  • ||

    I'm still being intermittently distracted by that link HM.

    I have dishes to do and clothes to put away, and these things are not being accomplished.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You're welcome.

  • Hyperion||

    I have dishes to do and clothes to put away, and these things are not being accomplished

    You don't have slaves to do those things, like the rest of us?

  • ||

    I prefer orphans, but apparently you're supposed to feed them, and I always forget. Is there a Reason jobs board?

    Libertarian seeks orphan waif for menial labor. Must be good with monocle polish. SMUDGES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

  • Generic Stranger||

    You're supposed to just abduct them off the street, silly. And just assign one of them to make sure the others get fed. So long as you only provide them with the cheapest of gruel, they won't over-eat, even without adequate supervision.

  • ||

    Thank you GS, I'll go fire up my white, windowless van and collect some waifs now and attempt your waif management strategy.

    Reason needs a whitepaper on this: Care and feeding of your waif for maximum exploitation.

    Hop on it Tuccille, be a hero.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    DO WHAT NOW?

  • Hyperion||

    You're supposed to just abduct them off the street, silly

    Well, not just any street, but a street in the worst anarchist of 3rd world countries, where there aren't laws against stuff like that. Libertarian paradises you know, without roads and bridges.

    Then you just pack em into a container with all the other stuff that you unfairly bought from the disadvantaged savages, and ship em home.

    This works every time for me.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Well, it's certainly easier if you go to a third world hell hole libertarian paradise, but then you have to teach them basic commands, like a dog or something. At least American children have a built-in command of English.

    BUY ABDUCT AMERICAN

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Abduct?
    You promise them candy

  • Generic Stranger||

    This isn't Canada, where if you offer them candy then it's not abduction-abduction.

  • ||

    I hadn't even THOUGHT of abducting Canadian children. As long as they're not from Toronto they should be super polite, no? Maybe I can get some Newfie chitlins and mock their accents so they weep more into the monocles they're washing.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Just avoid the Quebecois ones; they'll constantly agitate and act like they're going to run away, only to wimp out at the last minute. Plus you still have to teach them English.

  • ||

    Whatever, they all speak perfect English and they can make me a constant supply of poutine.

  • AlmightyJB||

    What are you guys all old or something. I order all my waifs online using bitcoin.

  • Kuze||

    "There is no such thing as someone who 'innovates' or 'works harder', this is a cultural myth of Americans. The only thing that determines your lot in life is privilege from race, gender, sexuality. You are a confluence of forces with no agency" -The Barbarian Horde

  • JeremyR||

    The problem with that is innovation and hard work isn't necessarily rewarded.

    Patent trolls for instance, don't create anything. Heck, IP in general stops people from making new things.

    Look at all the movies and books and music and what not made because Dracula was made public domain relatively quickly. Yet almost every major IP since is locked up forever, essentially.

  • prolefeed||

    Then again, if the United States becomes a country that punishes success, and so drives the ambitious elsewhere, or underground

    "If"?

    Try "... punishes success even more"

  • JeremyR||

    Well, it is unfair, but a good deal of it is the government's own doing. Fiat money whose value constantly decreases, property taxes so you no longer own land, merely lease it from the government, not to mention things like TARP and other cronyism. And IP laws - WTF should some corporation or estate own something created decades ago?

  • Hyperion||

    One of my biggest grievances with government, going all the way back to 2007, when I finally realized that I was Libertarian, is property taxes. It's the worst of all possible taxes, and I believe should be it should be outlawed in a constitutional amendment, because it in effect, bans all private ownership of real estate.

    And yes, I know it's not a federal law. So what? Anyone know anywhere in the USA you don't have to pay it? It's universal here.

    I could go on all night about why I think it's so bad, and why abolishing it would be so good, but I'm going to leave it as this.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Property taxes are about the vilest form of government theft on the books. It makes my blood boil. I wonder were we to apply the same shit to cell-phones or computers or cars if the populace would wake to the total fucking injustice of making you pay a rental fee for your own property?

  • Hyperion||

    They do it with cars, but only if you want to drive them.

    Again, I don't want to go too far down this road, because I have to get up in the morn and drive to my office in the city to work, but... I envision a future in a far away free land(cause it sure the fuck is not here) where I have finally paid off the mortgage on my home and land, and I retire, live off my land, self sufficient, and am LEFT THE FUCK ALONE!

    Yeah, it's a dream, but I feel it's a noble one.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    where I have finally paid off the mortgage on my home and land, and I retire, live off my land, self sufficient, and am LEFT THE FUCK ALONE!

    Wouldn't it be lovely? When I mention my desire for that with some of my acquaintances, they just cannot comprehend the concept.

    I'm just glad I married a farm girl.

  • Hyperion||

    I married a city girl, though I'm a country boy at heart. But I'm fighting the good fight to mend her evil ways.

    I'm pretty sure that as long as she can occasionally drive from the homestead and buy her google zillionth pair of shoes that she'll probably never wear, that it will all work out.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    After SHFT, she'll have to weave her own shoes from hemp fibers and tree bark.

  • Hyperion||

    She probably can judging by the way she can cook and sew and actually do other wifey type things that seem to be a lost art for most Murikan wiminz...

  • ||

    Hey, I can cook and sew.

    Any non-lady-libertarians that are looking for a househusband, please take note.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, Jesse, you are after all, one of those oddities that is the female libertarian.

    But don't worry, I totally blame it on Nicole that there aren't more of ya'll.

  • ||

    I'm totally confused if you're joking or if you think I'm a lady.

  • Hyperion||

    LOL

  • Hyperion||

    Oh, and BTW, confusing you is just payback for you, for confusing me.

  • ||

    Oh, and BTW, confusing you is just payback for you, for confusing me.

    ...sexually? ;)

  • ||

    THAT DOESN'T CLARIFY THINGS

  • AuH20||

    You guys should talk to a Georgist sometime. It would be... fun.

  • Hyperion||

    Referring back to the first post, by Sevo.

    "52 Percent of Americans Want Government To 'Redistribute' *Someone Else's* Wealth".

    I don't think that a majority of those 52 percent are as malicious and envious as it might be natural to think.

    It's just that they think that this 'someone' that they want all of this wealth redistributed from, is the government. They have been conditioned over and over again to believe that all wealth belongs to the government and they are just too ignorant to figure out the reality, that the government has no money that they did not steal from someone, someone like them.

    They will figure it out soon enough, but not until we all suffer a lot more because of the arrogance and greed of our elected, and the ignorance and apathy of a majority of Americans.

  • ||

  • Hyperion||

    7-11 robbery in area. Hope the hell that is all it is.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    No, it's front of the Stata Center, which is definitely on campus.

    I understand, though. The first time I saw how ugly that building was, I wanted to shoot someone too.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    What the Hell Boston

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    The officer has died.

  • Hyperion||

    Prob been discussed here earlier, but I wasn't around. Wifey had a class tonight, so I was hanging around campus(No, I wasn't looking at chicks!), and got home late.

    Anyway, those photos/video released by FBI, if on the right trail, really do not look good for it not having a middle east connection.

    Good news though, for us, if it does turn out to be a real lead, that combined with the gun grab going down in flames, could mean monsoons of proglodyte tears for monocle polishing.

  • Irish||

    http://www.latimes.com/news/po.....4079.story

    Why do Democrats insist on destroying their party over gun control every 20 years?

  • Hyperion||

    I don't know, why don't they just do the job right for once and make it last forever?

  • Irish||

    Then we'd have nothing to stop Republicans from going flat crazy and the socons banning everything.

    No, it's better to have two horrible parties than one.

  • Hyperion||

    Needz moar Rand Paul.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Oh that's awesome. Like montanans voted for old max despite his second amendment views and not because of them. Keep repeating that 90% quote all the way to the dusty graveyard of failed obama policies.

  • Irish||

    It's unbelievable. They apparently think that, if they primaried those four democrats, a more doctrinaire leftist would win those seats. In reality, they'd be handing 4 senate seats to the Republicans.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I can't wait to see the dumbass anti-gun ads they run in Alaska. I have a feeling that someone in the DNC is going to squash this shit pretty quickly, much to my chagrin.

  • Hyperion||

    As long as those GOP seats are actually going to Libertarians like Paul, Amash, and Massie, I hope so.

    On the other hand, like was already pointed out here tonight, by you, a GOP establishment majority would only mean CISPA, and worse.

  • Irish||

    They'd probably get relatively establishment Republicans. The states that are really sending in the libertarian style Republicans are Kentucky, Texas and Minnesota.

    That's where we get Cruz, Amash, Massie and Paul. The thing is, Minnesota tends to be somewhat left-wing, so congressmen from the more Republican areas are unlikely to be socons. In regards to Texas and Kentucky, they both are socially conservative culturally, but there's a very strong 'get the fuck out of my business' ethos in those states. That's why you end up with people like the Pauls, who are both social conservatives but don't really want to force their beliefs on people.

    I don't think you can say the same about Montana, Arkansas, Alaska and North Dakota. They tend to give us establishment Republicans, so I don't have much hope for a libertarian slipping in.

  • Hyperion||

    I have lived in KY, TN, and TX.

    I was too young to remember much, except for KY, and haven't lived there since I was in my mid twenties.

    KY, as I recall was a sort of Libertarian/Redneck hybrid.

    I'm not surprised that the most libertarian congress critters are coming out of KY. Not at all. But I am also not surprised that they will be clinging to a little SoCon.

  • Boisfeuras||

    Amash is from Michigan, not Minnesota.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Best comment:

    Pat Smith2 at 6:21 PM April 18, 2013

    Please do it! The senate needs newly minted gop senators. And the libs are going to finance it! get to it!
  • Irish||

    Yeah, I don't tend to cheerlead for the Republicans, given how shitty they can be on some issues, but it's hard not to laugh at the prospect of progressives bankrolling their own implosion.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Yup. They've seriously overestimated their support on this issue, and they're going to completely fuck themselves over because of it. It is hilarious.

  • MKi||

    Jonah Goldberg compared their attitude to a drunk who swears up and down throughout the week that he won't drink anymore, knowing the harm it does, then, when the weekend rolls around just "has" to take a few drinks and spends the weekend being a drunk, only to have his son drag him out of the gutter and make him promise not to do it anymore, and the cycle begins anew. They know it is destructive to their party, they talk of it as a "wedge issue" but they just can't ever stop themselves when things like this happens, which they inevitably do.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Yeah, it's like hard core anti-abortion for Republicans, except on that issue they generally lack the modicum of self-awareness possessed by the drunk.

  • MKi||

    I don't know about that one. Recent polls have shown the pro-choice and pro-life sides to be about even, unlike gun control, which heavily favors the Republicans. How many of the hardcore pro-abortion people are going to consider voting Republican regardless of the abortion issue? Most of them are either dogmatic feminists or poor people who consider the right to an abortion to be synonymous with the right to have the government pay for it.

  • Generic Stranger||

    It's the ones that come out against abortion in the cases of rape or for medical emergencies I'm mostly talking about. Very few people are that hardcore, and most people react very negatively to it.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Wasn't Reason mocking that whacky Romney about the "47%"? Well guess what, its higher than that.

    Stick a fork in it, a "united" US of A is cooked.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Sing us a sea shanty.

  • ||

  • MKi||

    Of course Reason got mad about what Romney said. *He's a Republican, gross.*

  • Hyperion||

    Until we run out of other peoples money, which is going to be sooner than most think.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Something will arise after this happens.

    Long live the Republic of Texas.

  • SIV||

    MIT Police Officer Sot and Killed on Campus

    Those Teabaggers are on a tear up in the Boston area.

  • SIV||

    I see I'm late.

  • Irish||

    I assume leftists are already blaming congress for that.

    I saw someone today blame congress because someone got held up at gunpoint a few blocks from his house. As if the legislation last night would have magically reached into the mugger's pocket and taken his gun, had congress simply had the foresight to allow the bill to pass the senate.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    OH LORD

    Garrett Quinn ‏@GarrettQuinn
    SCANNER: Jacked car now in Watertown. Shots fired.
  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Garrett Quinn ‏@GarrettQuinn
    SCANNER: EXPLOSIONS.IN WATERTOWN
  • Irish||

    What the fuck. This isn't even online yet.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    On the police scanner: Loud explosions, loud explosion. Shots fired. Shots fired. They have grenades.

  • Tony||

    We should do nothing about obscene, unprecedented levels of wealth inequality that is the result of a system that has absolutely nothing to do with rewarding value, because life isn't fair.

    Fine. How about we tax you at 90%? Life isn't fair, after all, so shut the fuck up.

  • cavalier973||

    Government collecting taxes is an inefficient way to equalize relative wealth levels, since government fingers tend to be fairly sticky.

    Why don't we pass a law that allows anyone below a certain income/wealth level to have direct access to a wealthier person's bank account/home/investment account?

  • cavalier973||

    Allow poor people to go to a nice restaurant, and charge it to Bill Gates.

  • cavalier973||

    A poor person can buy a house, and have the mortgage company collect the monthly payment from Warren Buffett.

  • Irish||

    Wealth inequality that occurred over a period of time in which we had unprecedented levels of government expansion.

    This is your peoples' bed Tony. Not my fault you shit in it.

  • MJGreen||

    That's why the libertarian motto is, "Keep the status quo!"

  • MKi||

    Hey Tony, why don't you ever respond to comments? You usually just write one, then write another, then write another, then leave. You rarely ever address the idiocy people find in your arguments. Also, what happened to T o n y?

  • cavalier973||

    "We" tax "you", huh? Ask the Redcoats how that turned out for them.

  • cavalier973||

    You know, a deeply regressive tax rate is the best way to maximize government revenues. Because, you know, people would work harder to get out of paying the higher rates.

    So, on a 5-tier rate system:
    90% rate for $1 to $10,000
    80% rate for $10,001 to $20,000
    70% rate for $20,001 to $30,000
    etc.

    Every dollar you make over $100,000 is yours to keep.

  • cavalier973||

    And no welfare, either; there'd be no point, really, because it would all be taxed away.

  • Irish||

    Once you make over $1,000,000 you get welfare. HYPER REGRESSIVE!

  • cavalier973||

    Well, the money that the poor people are paying in taxes has to go SOMEWHERE.

  • cavalier973||

    If you are against wealth inequality, then you probably want the government to reinstate race-based chattel slavery.

  • Tony||

    Clearly.

  • cavalier973||

    If the government taxed everyone at a 90% rate, it means that same-sex couples who want to get married will struggle to survive as a couple.

    WHY DO YOU HATE GAY PEOPLE SO MUCH, TONY??!!??

  • cavalier973||

    If the government taxed everyone at a 90% rate, then women wouldn't be able to afford abortions.

    WHY DO YOU WANT TO DENY WOMEN THEIR RIGHTS, TONY???!!!???

  • ||

    What is obscene about someone being richer than you Tony? How does it negatively affect you? What is obscene about someone being poorer than you Tony? Don't you have the balls to do something about it if it bothers you?

  • Tony||

    Did I say that? What's obscene is decades of economic growth benefiting only a small elite while everyone else--the ones actually working for a living--stagnate.

    Why don't you explain the modern global financial industry and tell me what it does and why it's good.

  • ||

    What's obscene is decades of economic growth benefiting only a small elite while everyone else--the ones actually working for a living--stagnate.

    Arguing facts not found in evidence. Do these "poor" people not drive cars, or not own cell phones, or not live in houses, or have access to food? If that is the issue, then let's address it. But not having the same amount of paper money as someone else is not wealth inequality. Purchasing power does not equate to wealth.

    We live in the wealthiest country in the world not because of the amount of money 5% of the population has in their bank accounts, but because most people can afford food, shelter, clothing, and even a few amenities that 3rd world countries and actual unwealthy people don't even have the opportunity to own or access.

    Fuck off, slaver.

  • cavalier973||

    OT: I was listening to Rush interview Marco Rubio, and it just made me sad. Rubio was going on and on about how the "conservative" message of limited government would be attractive to Latino immigrants, then went on a tirade about how the FedGov needed all this extra power to deal with illegal immigration.

    Dude, the Latino people aren't going to be persuaded by political schizos.

  • MKi||

    Latinos aren't going to be persuaded by capitalism either. Most are outspoken about their opposition to it. I really fail to see why they should be expected to vote any differently than the blacks. They are both poor, uneducated, nationalistic, and culturally liberal. Even today the blacks are a bigger part of the electorate, so why aren't we trying to convince them? 27% is, if anything, a high number.

  • Calidissident||

    27% is less than McCain got in a much less favorable position, and significantly less than Bush got

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    this is nuts

  • ||

    Not really. There's no good reason police can't look at publicly available information. If anyone is at fault for the information being out there it's Google.

  • ||

    Wrong link, AP. No police scanner stuff here.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254/web

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    2nd officer down... hand grenads... automatic gunfire

  • Nazdrakke||

    WTF, over?

  • Generic Stranger||

    I wonder if these are the marathon bombers. You don't run into that kind of hardware on the street very often.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    "All units, all units. Retreat, retreat."

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    "3 block radius from 98 Spruce"

  • Irish||

    How are you getting this police scanner? I went to that site and it wasn't the scanner.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • ||

    The site is now slower than molasses. A ton of people must be crowding onto it.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    over 49000 now

  • ||

    Fuck I want to listen in on the encrypted channel.

  • ||

    I must have a good link then. The reddit thread posted this alternate link if the broadcastify isn't working for you.

  • ||

    http://tunein.com/radio/Boston.....r-s146109/

    They keep saying everyone is switching to channel 1 though, so I don't know how long this will last.

  • ||

    And the play button doesn't work for me. Huh.

  • ||

    Nothing works right for me. And the alternate link is just a clip, not a live feed.

  • ||

    Finally, a popout of the tunein link works.

  • cavalier973||

    Yeah, it's an article about policemen using Google Earth to spy on people.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I got that link off the other thread.

  • ||

  • ||

    I've been listening to this for a while. It's crazy. Got deep into following the reddit investigation into the bombers. Lots of bullshit but it is addictive.

  • Nazdrakke||

    So what's the rundown after the 1st cop?

  • ||

    They highjacked a black mercedes. The followed then, then there was automatic fire, another officer down and grenade explosions.

  • ||

  • ||

    Sounds like the FBI got involved and they switched to an encrypted channel?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    they're being told to change channels, yeah

  • Irish||

    http://live.producermatthew.co.....athon.html

    Boston TV station. One suspect is apparently in custody. Allegedly he is being taken to the hospital with injuries.

    Other suspect may also be in custody, although it is not certain.

  • ||

  • ||

    That's the same station

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Brownshirt fuckers.

  • cavalier973||

  • Voros McCracken||

  • Boisfeuras||

    Of course, it's not "fair" to be born an American either. Wonder how many would favor redistribution if it was to "level the playing field" at $10,000 per year?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Apparently the BPD got them. "They're complainant"?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    "Two people in custody"

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Oh boy, the FBI must be telling them to change scanner channels....Can't let the public know more than we'll let'em.

  • Hyperion||

    Listening live now..., I think...

    2 suspects in custody.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Apparently there is no second suspect now in custody.....right when the FBI got involved.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    HOLY SHIT

    Garrett Quinn
    ‏@GarrettQuinn
    Attempting to get to Watertown.
  • ||

    If this is unrelated I'm gonna be pissed.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Its gotta be related. It looks like they are afraid to get near him since he might have a bomb on him.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    This Boston shit is on CNN now

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Holy shit the police are scared shitless to approach and handcuff him.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    he may have a device strapped to his body

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Yep

  • Irish||

    Suspect was apparently ordered to remove all his clothes before getting into the police cruiser, in case he was strapped.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Did I just here that there is an active shooter in the hospital?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    *hear

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    scanner != reporting

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    The comment section here is a poor man's (my) twitter.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Nope, alot of information, though/

  • Irish||

    Redditers may have heard there is an active shooter in the hospital as well

  • ||

    "No shots fired at children's hospital."

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    No shots fire at hospital.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    CNN's Gabe Ramirez reporting that police saying at least one of the suspects matches description of BostonMarathon suspect

  • ||

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    It looks like the guy with the white baseball cap.

  • cavalier973||

  • benji||

    Local news feed, showed guy on ground surrounded by cops:
    http://www1.whdh.com/video/7newslive

  • benji||

    Said there's been maybe controlled explosions.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    REMEMBER RICHARD JEWELL

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I'm going way out on a limb and guessing that these guys are beyond Jewell territory.

  • Irish||

    Like Archduke said, GREATEST FALSE FLAG OPERATION OF ALL TIME! /Alex Jones

  • ||

    Idiots at CNN still reporting that both suspects are in custody... and they are the must up to date. What use are these fucks anymore?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Yep. Second suspect is still on the run..

  • ||

    "We do not have second suspect in custody"

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    scanner info is 3/4 unreliable bullshit

  • Irish||

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Interesting. It appears that there were explosions as well, probably the grenades.

  • ||

    Yeah I heard the grenades being reported live about 30-40 mins ago.

  • Irish||

    Where would they have gotten grenades? I know speculation is useless, but were they homemade somehow or were they supplied by someone else?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I sure don't know, but "someone else" sounds like a plausible candidate.

  • Irish||

    Given the crudity of the marathon bombs, if this is the same group of people, I can't imagine they were competent enough to make grenades.

  • Calidissident||

    We need grenade control!

  • ||

    This source is saying that it was another pressure cooker bomb.

  • Irish||

    I'm hearing only one suspect in custody.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    From the scanner "Middle Eastern Male, clean shaven," is the description of the suspect on the run.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    This is the greatest false flag operation ever! USA! USA!

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    I have to say, the assumption that the FBI had no leads or knowledge of the Boston bombings is utter nonsense. Way too many black suvs and men in BDUs around....

    I think it was another FBI entrapment (for the lack of a better word) operation that happened to fail, badly.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Someone call Mark Wahlberg!

  • ||

    Apparently the guy shown handcuffed on the ground wasn't one of the guys.

  • cavalier973||

    Figures.

  • John C. Randolph||

    The pathetic thing is that hardly any of those jealous fools understand that when governments get the power to "redistribute" wealth, they always redistribute it to themselves.

    -jcr

  • Irish||

    John, there is fucking terrorism going on.

  • Nazdrakke||

    lol, Irish

  • benji||

    This is the fruit of our government not doing shit to crack down on weapons and the NRA seemingly running the government. I have a feeling things are just going to get worse in this country the longer they bicker with each other.
  • Irish||

    No fucking way. Where's that from?

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Suspect was born in 1991?

  • A Serious Man||

    Fox has the score 1 suspect in custody, 1 at large. CNN reports that MIT has cancelled its campus alert and informed students that they can resume normal activities.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    BBC putting story on "back burner" due to lack of info.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    BBC interviewing Pakistani guy about the dilemmas of being a Pakistani in America.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Would he be relieved if the terrorist was a "white extremist?"

    Damn, the BBC must hire the Upper Class Twits of the Year for reporters.

  • Irish||

    Police may be making entry into a house in Watertown.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    The online scanner has been shut down. They must be doing a raid.

  • ||

    Mines still running.

  • benji||

    Not to turn this into a gun debate, but if they are using assault rifles that they got without background checks, that shit would be ether for anyone that voted against the senate bill a couple days ago.
  • Irish||

    You cannot keep throwing this madness up without attribution. It's HuffPo, isn't it?

  • benji||

    i really hope these guys aren't brown, but if they are maybe we'll finally see some of that pro-gun crowd cross the aisle. for all the wrong reasons, but i dont mind.
  • Irish||

    I should not have plunged into the Huffpo comment section. Half of them are like HURR DURR NRA!

  • ||

    Really? Have some more!

  • Irish||

    Bwahaha. Awesome. My favorite is this: The title is 'fifteen things the gun industry DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW!' But the first two I saw are 'They will accessorize to attract women' and 'they make a lot of guns.'

    So this is an industry that apparently doesn't want people to know that they are hugely successful AND doesn't want anyone to know about the products they offer. Truly, the gun industry is quite nefarious.

  • ||

    I liked the zombie apocalypse one:

    It Fears The Zombie Apocalypse

    Gun manufacturers have been accused of using marketing ploys such as hyping up Zombie apocalypse fears to target new customers, Rolling Stone reports. Zombie Defense, for example, is an entire company dedicated to selling firearms customized for the inevitable event when dead humans come back to life and attempt to destroy the world.

    As if they expect anyone to take this as a serious expectation of zombies. But knowing HuffPost, they actually DO!

  • Irish||

    Oh my God, that is fucking glorious. They seriously think a joking marketing campaign is taken seriously by preppers convinced that a zombie apocalypse is coming.

    I adore HuffPo.

  • Nazdrakke||

    I wonder how painful the sense-of-humorectomy required for hardcore leftism is..

  • Irish||

    Another good one:

    "It picks losers." The only evidence of this is the fact that they gave a bunch of money to Mitt Romney. Apparently one data point is proof now.

    More importantly, isn't the NRA hyper powerful and controls our political process? How can they pick losers then? Huffpo talking points are so confused.

  • Irish||

    Really they're all great.

    It Wants Your Children
    Gun manufacturers have stepped up efforts to market to children by donating to youth groups, sponsoring youth events and advertising military style rifles directly to younger shooters, according to The New York Times.

    Yeah. Because tons of guns are sold directly to children without their parents' involvement.

  • ||

    I like how that's exactly the same as what every other sector of the economy does.

  • 0x90||

    dK is the best and most reliable reporting anywhere because we constantly fact check each other
  • Irish||

    I should have guessed: KOS KIDS!

  • benji||

  • benji||

    Boston Globe claiming marathon bombing suspect arrested:
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/met.....aign=sm_tw

  • benji||

    One marathon suspect has been captured, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation.
  • benji||

    Channel 7 WHDH says one suspect dead, other still on the loose.

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    Nope.......

  • ||

    huh? Pretty sure they have video of one guy on the ground surrendering...

  • benji||

    That guy was unrelated, he got down on the ground when all the cops were pointing guns at him, they then cleared and released him.

  • ||

    gotcha. Anyway, every other news source is saying suspect in custody...

  • ||

    Yeah that guy has been in custody at the hospital for a while now.

  • A Serious Man||

    FBI is being coy about whether or not these guys are connected to the Boston Marathon bombing.

  • ||

    I hope Matt Drudge learns a lesson from this: Terrorism Never Sleeps, and neither should you!

  • SaltySeaCaptain(LAOL)||

    I always though Matt was a world traveler....always in different time zones.

  • ||

    If he was awake he'd have changed the headline to reflect the events of the past 2 hours.

  • benji||

    Did this FaceBook video get posted? Even if so, worth posting again: http://tinyurl.com/crbb8vb

    I enjoyed what sounds like "get your hands up" after all the shooting.

  • ||

    When will people learn to STOP FILMING IN PORTRAIT.

  • benji||

    More shootout:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqo1Ad6spkY

    Still in portrait.

  • benji||

    FBI released new pictures of the bombing suspects:
    http://i.imgur.com/MXyh5nk.png
    http://i.imgur.com/UcbroF6.png

  • benji||

  • benji||

  • ||

    Botched FBI "sting" really smells strong right now. Can't put my finger on why.

  • ||

    CNN reporting Boston Commish at Watertown scene.

  • benji||

    Guy police is looking for has "white male, gray hoody black curly hair, armed with explosives"

  • benji||

    scanner: white hat guy that was identified in the photos

  • benji||

    "suspect outstanding is the party with the white hat identified in the photos"

  • ||

    They just reported on the scanner that the guy still at large is the white hat guy.

  • ||

    That makes sense, since apparently the man that they stripped down was "dark skinned" which would match the black hat guy.

  • benji||

    The police have confirmed that they are looking for the guys from Monday's Boston Marathon Bombing. Guy with white hat still at large.
  • benji||

  • ||

    "The file you requested could not be found"

  • benji||

    Looks like it got overloaded.

  • benji||

  • ||

    YEah.

  • ||

    All I get is a limited-time sound clip though. It's in sync with the live version, but has a limited length of sound before it stops. Might be the way my browser (Firefox) is set up, I'm not sure.

  • benji||

  • ||

    Yup, that's what I'm using. If it ever fails to load or cuts out, I just refresh until it works again.

  • benji||

    BPD scanner has identified the names : Suspect 1: Mike Mulugeta Suspect 2: Sunil Tripathi
  • benji||

  • ||

    Holy fuck. It was the guy who disappeared from Brown?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    You've heard this story before?

  • Boisfeuras||

    Hmmm... Sunil Tripathi: Missing Ivy League Student Seen in New Surveillance Video:

    Authorities searched Tripathi's computer and bank accounts, but reportedly found nothing. They also found what they have called a vague note in the student's apartment, but will not reveal the contents of the letter.
  • ||

    Yeah and then they were speculating it was him earlier today on reddit.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • benji||

    mike mulugeta ‏@mikemulugeta 13 Apr
    You have enemies, good because that means you stood up for something

    mike mulugeta ‏@mikemulugeta 7 Apr
    never underestimate the pain of a person becaise in all cercumstances some people are beter on hiding it than others.
  • benji||

    doesn't look like him on the account, probably just coincidence

  • ||

    Mulugeta twitter?

    You have enemies, good because that means you stood up for something
  • ||

    I thought Sunil was specifically a Sri Lankan name.

  • benji||

    Channel 7 confirmed these are bombing suspects.

  • A Serious Man||

    Fox has Judge Napolitano on right now.

  • benji||

    Cops are in foot pursuit.

  • benji||

    And they've changed their mind, they're not.

  • RyanXXX||

    So much conflicting info...

  • RyanXXX||

    CNN Headlines:

    Suspect in custody
    Wait, no arrests made
    200 Dead in Explosion
    Wait, nevermind
    FBI ON SCENE!!

  • RyanXXX||

    They keep stressing how "not normal" this is for Boston XD

    "Really, this has never happened to us before!"

  • Irish||

    "I swear, never before have I seen someone blow up a bunch of pressure cookers!"

  • benji||

    Pete Williams on NBC News: A pressure cooker was found at the Watertown crime scene
  • ||

    "Make sure were not chasing ghosts"

    come on guys

  • ||

    I tell you, I'd pick a new rights-enforcement agency if this happened in Libertopia.

  • An0nB0t||

    Am I missing something, or are synonyms of words that share an alternate meaning entailing a semi-archaic racial slur verboten now?

  • RyanXXX||

    So what's the connection between the MIT thing and the Marathon at this point? Any?

  • ||

    Unknown. Possibly none.

    I feel like I heard that the MIT suspect was shot and killed and that it was unrelated, but I might be making that up.

  • ||

    Considering the explosives reported earlier maybe they had another bombing plan and the MIT cop interrupted? Then they panicked, highjacked a car and fled?

  • MJGreen||

    They were trying to bomb MIT? Trying to get to a certain person at MIT? Personal grudge?

    As was said back on Monday, don't read anything as accurate for a while. I'm going to see what the story is on Sunday.

  • benji||

    There was someone doing something suspicious at MIT earlier tonight, campus cop intervened and got shot. Maybe robbery, maybe related.

    Then this whole chase and crap started like an hour later.

  • benji||

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys1m
    Eyewitness to NBC: Suspects lit explosive device, threw it toward officers, created huge smoke explosion

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys2m
    Eyewitness to NBC: One suspect ran toward officers while firing on him

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys1m
    Eyewitness to NBC: Second shooter got into SUV when first shooter was tackled

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys2m
    Eyewitness to NBC: Second shooter who jumped into SUV backed vehicle in the direction of officers

  • benji||

    Adam Gaffin ‏@universalhub 17s
    Police about to start evacuating some residents due to presence of explosives

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    BBC is interviewing a guy who did one of Pink Floyd's album covers.

    So that rules out one suspect, I guess. Next they'll check out their next suspect - Kate Hudson!

  • An0nB0t||

    There goes my office pool.

  • MJGreen||

    This situation is made all the worse by the likelihood that these aren't lily-white guys terrorizing Boston.

    Sorry, I need to stop and go to sleep. I am going to be a tired wreck tomorrow.

  • ||

    Sorry, I need to stop and go to sleep. I am going to be a tired wreck tomorrow.

    I'm all in at this point. Its a Friday anyways. Just gotta get through one day of work.

  • ||

    What will the kids @DailyKos and HuffPo do if it turns out that their dreams don't come true, and it's not an angry white man?

  • Irish||

    -Crosses fingers-

    Please be collective suicide, please be collective suicide

    -uncrosses fingers-

  • Nazdrakke||

    Same thing they always do when reality doesn't fit the narrative: Make Shit Up.

  • Irish||

    They're already blaming the NRA. Not kidding.

  • Nazdrakke||

    I'd almost be disappointed with them if they weren't.

  • An0nB0t||

    Tempted to register there just to suggest that the murder tonight never would've happened if only gun dealers would stop selling to minorities.

    If it would save even one life...

  • sasob||

    Lol!

  • ||

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys 4m
    WHDH is no longer reporting one Watertown suspect dead.

  • Irish||

  • ||

    Nice.

  • An0nB0t||

    It sickens me to see someone shaming El Che's legacy like that.

  • 0x90||

    This guy was clearly working with Obama. Boston was just a ploy designed to help push the gun control issue over the top.

    /alexjones

  • An0nB0t||

    https://twitter.com/mikemulugeta

    You just had to know that Justin Bieber had to be involved in this plot somehow.

    What a weird fucking week.

  • benji||

    one is dead, the other is "held up in a home in watertown, surrounded by... basically an army"


    channel 7

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Which one is the "missing student?"

  • ||

    Sunil Tripwire.

    White Baseball cap, still at large.

  • Irish||

    Dude in the Che shirt on my post upthread.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I meant was Sunil the dead one or the missing one.

  • ||

    Sunil is the one they are still hunting down.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    How do we know this? Is he white? Because the at-large suspect was called white.

  • An0nB0t||

    They identified him by name. Lots of bullshit flying around right now just like the first hours of the Lanza deal.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • ||

    Waiting for daylight? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck. I guess I'll go to sleep.

  • benji||

    MASS STATE POLICE ‏@MassStatePolice 52s
    Joint agency press conference moved to Watertown Mall parking lot. Time TBD.

    MASS STATE POLICE ‏@MassStatePolice 1m
    Change in plans--Media should report to Target Store at Watertown Mall for upcoming briefing.

    MASS STATE POLICE ‏@MassStatePolice 2m
    If any concerns about someone at door, call 911 immediately. Repeat--Do not answer door, stay away from windows, keep doors locked.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Aren't they evacuating those homes?

  • benji||

    They're going to do a house to house sweep at daylight apparently.

  • ||

    What are they concerned about?

    No one in Massachusetts has guns. They are proud TEAM BLUE members!

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Too bad this isn't Watertown, New York, they could send zoning inspectors to look for unauthorized house guests.

  • 0x90||

    Yeah, but with rent control, good luck ever getting them out.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    I meant this story, where Watertown, NY bans roommates.

    http://reason.com/reasontv/201.....tes-banned

  • benji||

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys 2m
    Just in: Police source tells me moments ago suspects were on MIT campus earlier tonight with one or several explosives and firearms

  • ||

    FOX is reporting that Suspect #1 died at the hospital (Beth Israel).

  • An0nB0t||

    The one who was walking naked to the police car under his own power?

  • benji||

    No, that guy was released.

    Probably the person "captured" after this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqo1Ad6spkY

  • ||

    No idea if that's the same person. Apparently, there was a fire fight? That's what the portrait iphone videos linked above seemed to indicate.

  • ||

    Ugh, they better not kill the second suspect. Alex Jones will lose his mind.

  • ||

    related thought...found this while searching for Sunil tweets.

    Not Bill Walton ‏@NotBillWalton 1h
    4 days ago someone posted THIS: http://i.imgur.com/paK3lGJh.png And now they tell us troubled student Sunil Tripathi is a bomber. #TheCakeisALie

  • Nazdrakke||

    Favorite Reddit comment of the night:

    "If this had happened in Los Angeles, they would have shot 7 of the 2 suspects"

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Animated comparison of Sunil and white-baseball-cap guy:

    http://i.imgur.com/3Bh7rkc.gif

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    A bit of a stretch?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • ||

    Matthew Keys ‏@TheMatthewKeys 2m
    Boston Police Commissioner @EdDavis3 confirms one suspect dead, one suspect at large in Boston incident.

  • benji||

    channel 5 reading off DA description of events:

    -something at MIT led to shooting of MIT cop
    -carjacking in cambridge
    -robbery attempt
    -another carjacking at some point
    -shootout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cqo1Ad6spkY
    -suspect #1 (black cap) dead
    -suspect #2 (white cap) still on the loose

  • benji||

  • ||

    Yes, apparently BPD issued that photo.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Boston PD photo:

    http://bit.ly/14AYOIl

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Explosives at a town near Brown at time of the Sunil guy's disappearance:

    http://bit.ly/ZBsflL

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    But the commissioner describes him as white, so it could be someone else?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • benji||

    press conference now

  • benji||

    Michael Skolnik ‏@MichaelSkolnik 4m
    "black hat" suspect is Mike Mulugeta. We believe his DOB is 10-29-91.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Middlesex DA press release says first suspect (black hat) died in hospital.

    http://twitpic.com/ckd6xd

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    BBC doesn't seem sure the guy is dead.

  • ||

    Between the DA and the Commish, I don't really know how much more they could want. I mean I still haven't seen a photo of dead Bin Laden, but I accept that he aint alive.

  • ||

    How embarrassing would it be if he were to elude capture?

  • An0nB0t||

    Twitter thinks they have him and an IED cornered in a house, but no radios for several minutes now. Good to know that twitter can have a useful purpose .01% of the time.

  • ||

    This is actually when twitter is really useful. Kind of like that guy in Pakistan who unknowingly live-tweeted the Bin Laden raid.

  • An0nB0t||

    Watching this unfold live is a stunning experience. Same with a random high school classmate proposing a connection between the missing Brown kid and the grainy photo of the bomber.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Agreed. Pretty remarkable that the MSM is behind the internet on a breaking story. Nice to have an alternative.

  • benji||

    suspect #1 may have blown himself up. both suspects suspected to have bombs strapped to their chests.

  • benji||

    scanner talking about a house possibly a "bomb factory"

  • Nazdrakke||

    Does this mean they'll be in trouble with OSHA, too?

  • benji||

    I hope so, DA better hit them with every possible charge. Especially the dead guy.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Well, he'll still be able to vote, so I don't see why not.

  • benji||

    suspects car + bomb squad robot:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIM4QGxCQAAbpoC.jpg

  • benji||

    Pete Williams NBC: If these two are who they think they are, they are not American and have been here for about a year
  • Nazdrakke||

    Should start an inaccurate reports drinking game at this point.

  • benji||

    Same guy is claiming they're foreign military now lol

    oh NBC

  • An0nB0t||

    From twitter:

    At the rate they're reporting the news, CNN's headlines might as well be "The British are coming, the British are coming!" #watertown #mit
  • benji||

    CNN has been fucking hilarious during this entire thing, I've kept them on my TV while watching the local Boston stations on my computer since they've been dominating. Doing real news, refusing to report things until they get more sources, etc.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    The suspects are identified as white - and the missing student is not, by any definition. I think he may be getting a bad rap.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    At least the white-cap suspect was called white.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • benji||

    Fox News reported that US authorities had contacted Pakistan about information regarding these individuals.

    ut oh

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    So who implicated the missing (and definitely not white) student?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    What is the basis for identifying him, or is this going to be an "oops, sorry we called you a terrorist" moment?

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Dylan Byers ‏@DylanByers 5m

    NBC's PETE WILLIAMS: "There's been a lot of speculation that one of these suspects is a student that went missing from Brown -- NOT THE CASE

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    "NBC News reported Friday morning that a missing Brown University student — the subject of intense speculation on social media — is not in fact a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings."

    http://bit.ly/11kjVtK

  • An0nB0t||

  • Generic Stranger||

    Sounds like they're clearing houses.

  • WomSom||

    ithink it sound like a pretty good idea myself.

    www.Web-Anon.tk

  • benji||

    CHECNYA?!?

  • benji||

    or CHECHNYA

    RUSSIAN?!?

  • benji||

    Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    AP says it's pronounced "JOE-khar."

  • Generic Stranger||

    They just detonated a possible pipe bomb.

  • Number 2||

    Back to the article...Is this the same American public who, in a different poll that was released yesterday, reported that they did not trust the very same government that they want to redistribute wealth?

  • forestgombosi39||

    If you think Carrie`s story is unbelievable,, 5 weeks ago my cousins boyfriend easily made $6762 putting in a thirteen hour week from there apartment and the're co-worker's mother-in-law`s neighbour done this for 7-months and actually earned over $6762 part time from a laptop. apply the guidelines at this site http://www.wow65.com
    (Go to site and open "Home" for details)

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Video Game Nation: How gaming is making America freer – and more fun.
  • Matt Welch: How the left turned against free speech.
  • Nothing Left to Cut? Congress can’t live within their means.
  • And much more.

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement