Gary Johnson's Closing Statement in Ohio: "Vote for the Person You Believe In"

STREETSBORO, Ohio—Gary Johnson would like to win on Tuesday but if he’s not on top when all the votes are counted he doesn’t care who is.

In the closing days of his run for president, the Libertarian nominee has more than embraced the spoiler arguments he is bombarded with daily. It started when he was on his swing through northeast college campus. It accelerated at the Free and Equal debates in Chicago and in Boulder, Colorado on his final Mountain West tour. Now, here at the last stop on his fifth and final tour of the most crucial of 2012 swing states, he has reached the point where he is almost gleeful over being seen as throwing a giant monkey wrench into what happens on Election Day.  

“Whichever candidate I make lose that would be terrific because that would open a debate and a discussion over the two parties and what really is the difference between the two: It’s not much., it’s really not much at all,” he said in an interview with reporters before going on stage.

“I just want to make it clear: more liberal than Obama when it comes to civil liberties and more conservative than Romney when it comes to dollars and cents. That said, I don’t care what happens, I really don’t,” he said.

Johnson has been under relentless attacks from conservatives for his candidacy because they claim his presence in the race will cost Mitt Romney the election. Comparisons have been made to Johnson’s run and Ralph Nader’s 2000 Green Party candidacy. Johnson doesn’t see it that way, arguing he takes equally from both candidates and in different states.

His closing argument is that President Obama and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney have failed to address a series of issues, some more mainstream and others more important to libertarians.

Obama, Johnson says, is a great speaker and agrees with a lot of what he says but in practice he’s been a failure on things like the budget, foreign policy, and, in particular, the war on drugs.

“I never believed that he would balance the budget, I never believed that he would cut federal spending but he did say those things and he continues to say those things. I did believe him that when it came to war I thought that our military intervention would be scaled way back but he is as militaristic a president we have ever had. The military interventions right now are at an absolute high,” Johnson said.

Romney, he says, is a nice guy with a great business acumen but he’s just wrong on immigration and his ideas on the federal budget are detached from reality.

“Mitt Romney is a smart guy but with a straight face he says ‘we need to balance the federal budget, hold Medicare intact, and increase spending for the military. It doesn’t add up,” he said.

Most of these, in some way, could be solved or at least addressed if the Fair Tax was implemented, Johnson argues, yet that's something neither candidate even considers.

Johnson implored the 700-plus gathered to bring their friends to the polls and encouraged them to convince others that a vote for Romney or Obama is truly a wasted vote.

“Wasting your vote is voting for somebody you don’t believe in. Vote for the preson you believe in, that is how we change things in this country,” he said.

“If either Obama or Romney are elected we’re gonna find ourselves with a greater police state, we’re gonna find ourselves with a continued state of war, military interventions are gonna get just as bad if not even worse, and we’re going to find ourselves spending money in ways that are unsustainable that will ultimately lead to a monetary collapse if we don’t take control of it,” he said.

Johnson heads to Washington, D.C. tomorrow for a series of media appearances and to participate in the two final third party debates. He is spending Election Night at the official campaign party in his hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. 

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • db||

    Go Gary; be able to look yourself in the mirror.

  • Gman||

    It doesn't matter if you "vote for the person you believe in." Nothing will change. Both candidates would drive the country off the edge with their money printing and deficit spending.

    When the ship is sinking it doesn't matter who the captain is.

    To protect yourself you can still fairly easily get your $ out of the country. There are several brokerage firms (and fewer banks) that will still allow American clients to open accounts without traveling to the foreign firms office. Many are completely removed from the western worlds unstable banking system. We're talking well capitalized firms operating in very solid, stable currencies. You could hold your cash there in the local currency, or sometimes have a choice between several currencies, or purchase shares in companies earning their revenue and paying dividends in solid foreign currencies. See swisssolution.webs.com

  • ||

    Teleprompter 2012! Change again!

  • sloopyinca||

    OT: Fucking Chris Christie. First, he tells people when they are allowed to purchase gasoline. Now, he's signed legislation outlawing deductibles for homeowners filing insurance claims due to damage caused by Hurricane Sandy.

    Seriously, this man is a piece of shit. Forget the free market. Forget enforcing contracts that consumers voluntarily entered into with insurance carriers. This motherfucker just waves his magic wand and fucks over every carrier that wrote a policy in the state of New Jersey.

  • db||

    Watch insurance companies run for the exits if this doesn't get struck down in the courts. Wow.

  • sloopyinca||

    I only hope there's not a single carrier that will write a homeowners policy in the state after this.

    As to it getting struck down in court: which carrier is going to file that suit and be labeled heartless by the Fat Man and his statist bootlickers in the NY/NJ media after this? They'll comply with this extortionist bill or they'll cease to exist.*

    *Of course, with home values what they are, those deductibles might have offset their huge losses just enough that fewer of them would go BK.

  • db||

    The only way insurers could stay in new jersey would be to jack everyone's premium up to essentially cover a no deductible policy.

  • sloopyinca||

    Which would be illegal under the price-gouging law that will be put into place about 1 week after they increase the first person's premium.

  • Jerryskids||

    The only way insurers could stay in new jersey would be to jack everyone's premium up to essentially cover a no deductible policy.

    Unfortunately, that's not true. NJ will just pass a law requiring insurance companies to offer affordable policies in NJ. If the government can force you to *buy* insurance, surely they can force you to *sell* insurance can't they?

  • ||

    You're missing one leg in that three legged stool. You also have to force providers to accept the insurance, or at the very least, make it so expensive and convoluted that refusing to do so is an exercise in futility.

  • ||

    Leading to a clusterfuck that ensures high prices for worse service.

    GOVERNMENT YAY

  • ||

    But..But...TEACHER'S UNIONS! BUDGET REFORM!!!

    He's The Corpulent Jesus, sloopy. His Jesus-dom rivals The Zero's!

    I wasn't fooled by Sir Cumferance, Knight of the Repubican table from the start, and it really is natural and other disasters that really expose how statist a govenor or politician can be.

    Compare The Girth of the GOP to say, Bobby Jindahl, about the basic difference in governing philosophy and disaster response.

    Also, fuck Ann Coulter with a freshly broken broom handle for her support of this fraud.

  • Concerned Citizen||

    Fuck Chris Christie with Article 1, Section 10: No State shall...pass any law impairing the Obligation of Contracts.
    Why no one else brings this up is beyond me.

  • sloopyinca||

    Why no one else brings this up is beyond me.

    Because while they may win that battle, they'll be regulated or legislated out of any future business if they don't succumb to their government masters.

  • Concerned Citizen||

    Then they shouldn't bitch when the gov't grossly oversteps it's job description. Just pay your extortion and move along.
    I'm glad the Founders had more spine.

  • Cytotoxic||

    He had his uses and moments and has been good for NJ. I don't see any further good coming from Cristie. Fuck him.

  • Sevo||

    sloopyinca| 11.3.12 @ 9:40AM |#
    "OT: Fucking Chris Christie. First, he tells people when they are allowed to purchase gasoline. Now, he's signed legislation outlawing deductibles for homeowners filing insurance claims due to damage caused by Hurricane Sandy."

    It was one of the Bush fils who, as gov of FL, forbid charging more than last week's price for a generator after a hurricane.
    FL stayed dark, and generators stayed in warehouses all over the country!

  • db||

    Same with gas rationing in NJ, I bet.

  • sloopyinca||

    I remembered that. Jeb Bush got a lot of kudos from the people for that one. And by "people," I mean people from outside the state that didn't have to walk into a Home Depot and get told no generators were scheduled for delivery over the next few weeks.

    Remember this: the state wants to be the solution to problems. When they let the free market solve problems, they lose their iron-clad grip on the masses.

  • FD||

    "When they let the free market solve problems, they lose their iron-clad grip on the masses."

    Perfect.

  • ||

    Anti-price gouging laws during a disaster are very popular with governors. Okie-land has them as well, as they were instituted after a severe ice storm that essentially paralyzed the state for at least a 2 weeks, some parts of it for at least a month. Good SOD, I'll never forget that. I didn't leave the hospital for a week, and unless you were dead or in a coma, you worked, no "if's", "and's" or "but's".

    They also kick in after a tornado or mass fire has done its evil work, and tornadoes occur with frequency in good 'ole Tornado Alley.

  • sloopyinca||

    The public rarely forgets, and the people who price gouge might make a bunch of money right after the storm, but when things are rebuilt, their customers would leave them in droves.

    Shame exposes people who do shit like price gouge the same as good press benefits those who charitably give to their fellow man. Unfortunately, too many elected officials are of the mindset that fucking over insurance companies or giving away tax dollars to flood victims that live on the coast constitutes charity, when it is more akin to theft.

  • 4tehsnowflakes||

    Some consumers would reward disaster entrepreneurs for actually having the generators or other goods available even if they had to pay a higher price than usual during the crisis.

  • Ice Nine||

    OT: Fucking Chris Christie. First, he tells people when they are allowed to purchase gasoline. Now, he's signed legislation outlawing deductibles for homeowners filing insurance claims due to damage caused by Hurricane Sandy.

    GWB's getting Katrina shoved up his ass by the mindless media riot that ensued - the progenitor of Hurricane Political Theater - created a lot of stupid.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Whichever candidate I make lose that would be terrific because that would open a debate and a discussion over the two parties...

    WRONG. First of all, I doubt he'll "take" enough votes to make a difference. If he did, it wouldn't open dick. The losing partisans will blame him for interfering. There will be zero introspection in either party, because once an election is over focus shifts to governing. The winners start ticking off the wishlist and the losers scheme to keep that list unrealized.

    A friend of mine tells fellow Republicans to "vote for Johnson if you want; I hope you all enjoy four more years of Obama." The correct response is, of course, that it cuts both ways. You want to ignore the cries of a number of small government, civil libertarian minded voters large enough to affect the election then you enjoy four more years of Obama.

    Liberals are even more hopeless, blind to their leaders' misdeeds. Leftists can forgive the state almost anything but inaction. Especially a state helmed by their own.

  • T o n y||

    Power in a democratic society is tenuous. Liberals have been beaten down for decades, and if they're smart they will take what power they can get. The alternative is always going to be worse (because Republicans are incompetent ideological fools nowadays), so we tend to sleep pretty well at night.

  • sloopyinca||

    incompetent ideological fools

    And we all know you can spot one a mile away since you see one every time you look in a mirror.

  • T o n y||

    Actually I'm a highly intelligent pragmatist.

  • jester||

    Why do you need to state the obvious

  • Sevo||

    T o n y| 11.3.12 @ 12:04PM |#
    "Actually I'm a highly intelligent pragmatist."

    Actually, you're a shithead ignoramus.

  • db||

    The heartwarming tale of a herpetic monkey, a town fearful of the unknown, and, a HERPETIC MONKEY.

  • db||

    Lawyers for Mystery Monkey are on the offensive today, after news reports of his herpetic condition were splashed across national screens. "We are reviewing all our options, but at this point, at the very least, this unauthorized release of medical information is clearly a violation of HIPAA. Mystery Monkey values his privacy greatly, and this irresponsible and illegal exposure of his medical records will not go unaddressed," said Ray Davies, spokesman for Mystery Monkey. "Mystery Monkey doesn't feel safe in this world any more, and feels that whoever leaked this information is no better than the animals sitting in their cages in the zoo."

  • sloopyinca||

    Mystery Monkey tests positive for Herpes B virus

    Wait, that's the good herpes, right?

  • db||

    Davies, when faced with innuendo from an inquisitive journalist regarding the nature of Mystery Monkey's alleged infection, said, "Mystery Monkey's public behavior is unerringly sophisticated and civilized, and speculation about his personal predelictions is walking down a dead end street. I would remind you of your colleague, Walter, whose world has changed significantly since his unfounded accusations against Mystery Monkey regarding paranoia."

  • ||

    Child rearing that John Galt would approve of.

    It's come to this, you've been blessed with children. They're growing up. And now you've got a house full of kids.

    Feeling overwhelmed?

    Yes, of course. But have you ever considered applying economic principles to managing a large household? Here are some real lessons learned from two Ph.D. economists with five kids. The basic key is to reinforce simple old fashioned values with the right incentives.
  • db||

    Very sweet link. Some might say artificially zweet.

  • ||

    Definitivamente no estoy respondiendo a ti en espanol con la intencion de molestar a usted. Confia en mí.

    Also, don't let your kid blab about it at school -- they'll report you to DHS as a possible terrorist if your kid starts talking about John Galt.

  • ||

    Better than German. And yes you did.

  • ||

  • db||

    If I have kids I'm going to try to do things this way. My parents went the opposite direction, trying to instill some idea of "duty" to do the chores. I think material incentives are better, and encourage good economic habits in children, to boot.

  • sloopyinca||

    I've posted it before, but it's not on my new PC. We have a schedule of chore payments for my kids. They get paid for what they do, period. Of course, they are expected to keep their rooms clean, but if they don't want to make any allowance, they don't do any chores.

    Matter of fact, I actually paid one of my daughter's friends the other day when she helped clean out our chicken coop. She asked me why, and I explained to her how it works in our house. Needless to say, she said she wished it was that way at her home.

    Kids are just small people, not morons. If you implement an incentive for performing, you'll get a lot more than if you implement a punishment for not.

  • robc||

    Some of them ARE small morons.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Methinks that's the dividing chasm between people when it comes to raising kids: some treat their kids like little people, and others treat them like pets that can talk.

  • Jerryskids||

    I hate talking about the Fair Tax. It's a national sales tax. I predict that within 10 years we will have a national sales tax - but it's going to be in addition to all the other taxes, not a replacement for them. Talking about the Fair Tax and how simple it would be to implement and how much revenue it would raise just makes me sick to my stomach. Why give them ideas for increasing taxes?

  • James Anderson Merritt||

    Johnson is clear that he intends the Fair Tax as a REPLACEMENT to several federal taxes, including personal income tax, capital gains tax, and corporate income tax. To completely kill income tax, of course, requires repeal of the 16th Amendment.

  • nothinghead||

    The 16th amendment authorizes, but does not require, income taxes. It would not need to be repealed to implement the 'Fair Tax'.

  • Eaglewing||

    The Fair Tax requires repeal of the 16th Amendment before it goes in to effect, to ensure that the gov't can't add income tax on top of the sales tax. The Fair Tax is intended to be revenue neutral. It restores the 5th Amendment, kills the IRS, and makes taxation completely visible to everyone. It will be printed right on the receipt every time you make a purchase. No more hiding the cost of government with payroll, withholding, FICA and the illusion of "matching" payments by employers, as well as embedded taxes in the products you buy.
    There seems to be a lot of hostility toward the Fair Tax here. You should read the details and understand it before you dismiss it. It really is much better than what we have now. You can get the facts at fairtax.org or get the Fair Tax book by Neal Boortz and Congressman John Linder (author of the bill).

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Yesterday, I was in my favorite bar, having a beer and talking to a friend. Some other guy, whom I recognize but do not know, starts talking about the elections, and comes up with this:

    "If Rick Hill gets elected governor of Montana, WOMEN WON'T BE ALLOWED TO WORK OR VOTE ANYMORE."

    I am seriously no shit thinking about selling my place and moving to Idaho, because Montanans are a such a bunch of slack-jawed cretins.

  • ||

    Have you heard the commercial that bags on Hill for supporting a state sales tax? They have a sound byte of him saying, "I think Montana would be better off with a sales tax."

    They CLEARLY stop the quote mid sentence. A moron can tell the're was more and they were taking him out of context. The dirty politics here is outrageous. Both Rehberg and Tester are two of the most disingenuous fucks I've ever listened to.

    I'm not sure ID is much better. The wife and I looked pretty closely at Idaho. Pluses and minuses on both sides.

  • ||

    the're there

  • Cdr Lytton||

    I'm not sure ID is much better. The wife and I looked pretty closely at Idaho. Pluses and minuses on both sides.

    I'd be interested in hearing more. The wife & I are seriously considering moving to somewhere near Boise. The big minuses I see are explosive growth (a lot from CA exiles and fellow travelers who want to recreate their hellhole), arid climate in those parts, & politics that are so red it's morphed into conventional cronyism and gives little lip service to small government except for the blue section in Boise that wants even more boondoggles.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Same for Brooksie. Would love to hear from anyone here about their opinions on ID, especially current/former residents.

  • ||

    See below for more.

    We like the outdoor thing. I'm the H-K type (hunting/fishing) and the wife is more crunchy (kayaking/rafting/hiking) and both states are fantastic for each of those types of activities. So that was the draw.

    ID, as you say, is very Red, which is good fiscally, but intolerant on the social side. We chose MT, because of the "leave me the fuck alone" libertarian mentality that many have/had.

    Unfortunately, since we've moved back, I've noticed a definite shift toward Team Blue. As TLPB says, the state has become absolutely HOSTILE to business. Because all business hurts the environment...

    The CA transplants are rampant across the West. The worst we saw was the Front Range in CO. They might as well rename Colorado Springs New LA. Boise is getting there. As a general rule, the more beautiful the place, the more infected it becomes. In MT, the worst two towns are Missoula and Bozeman.

    I liked Idaho. Nice climate as well. Dry. Would have been very happy living there.

  • cw||

    Helena seems pretty bad, too. But Missoula and Bozeman are the university towns, so no surprise there.

  • jester||

    I went to high school there. That was 30 plus yrs ago. I applied for the military schools and received a nomination from all three possibilities, McClure, Simms and Craig (no I didn't have to suck his dick.) from that experience in which I was deemed ineligible not because I was a nigger, but because my eyesight was deemed subpar. Same difference really. Discrimination is discrimination.
    I remember after my med exam at Mountain Home Airforce Base, the doc remarked after examining my nose that I wasn't a coke addict.
    It was somewhat of an awakening to a naive kid.
    Idaho is idiosyncratic. I am surprised it has remained red state as long as it has. One could blame the Mormons for that but the Mormons but for a few issues dealing with abortion are becoming true social democrats. I'm guessing that such move wins more candidates.

  • Atanarjuat||

    I'm not sure the coke addict comment was because you were black. My dad's a dorky doctor and enjoys showing off esoteric skills, like curing hiccups (though he sucks at it--it involves minutes of painful compression on some nerve in the neck and never really works), and maybe even detecting a coke addict by the appearance of their nasal cavity. I think he would have said that to anyone.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Very much appreciated! We're in ID's Portugal so the CA menace is very familiar. The housing prices there are still sane enough that we could buy a decent amount of land and even though the trends there give me a slight pause, it's 1000X worse here. I convinced thIs state is going to go critical under the burden of fiscal insanity and general stupidity.

    We've been visiting heavily over the past several years including a short time where my wife was working in Boise so I feel like I'm not going in blind. The biggest hiccup is the climate. The dryness is great and a nice change from the rain but the wife also wants trees, greenery and privacy (so much more difficult when living on plains where you can see for miles).

  • Cdr Lytton||

    And the ocean too.

  • ||

    We spent the last 15 years looking for the ideal place in the trees. Didn't find it. Found plenty of beautiful properties, but all too far from civilization. Thought that would be cool when I was 35. Now I like not driving an hour to the supermarket. Ended up building on the plains. Being able to see for miles does grow on you.

    If your wife insists, you could go north of Boise. Not too far to the trees that way.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    We're already an hour to the grocery store now thanks to Oregon's oh so wonderful land use regulations but we're not very rural at all. My wife retired and the two jobs I'm mulling over have some degree of work from home in them so that opens up our options. On the other hand, being closer to amenities has it's advantages.

    My preference would be acreage with water rights/supply either south of Boise or west of Nampa. Looking at others in the area, I think I can get some wood grown, although nothing like the forest I'm in now. Towards Idaho City is pretty but Boise County's recent lawsuit mess scares me from the area.

  • James Anderson Merritt||

    Just bear in mind that "California Transplants" are usually only "transients": people who stayed in California only briefly (no more than a few years in most cases, usually following business opportunities or ephemeral social trends), did their damage and then decided to move on to do damage elsewhere. This native Californian is happy when they leave, but is in great sympathy with the States who receive these waves of population pestilence.

  • Ted S.||

    ID has a state liquor monopoly if I remember correctly? Big strike.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    It does but I think it's going to go within a couple of years. Costco's victory in Washington has opened up the log jam.

    Oregon's liquor commission is on the defensive to point of ridiculous (OLCC chair: "Other countries, and even some other states, continue to see health problems from "adulterated" liquor, including blindness and paralysis. Counterfeit brand-name liquor continues to be a problem"). Once that goes, Idaho will follow.

  • cw||

    I hear you. My God, Montana has lost a lot of that "independence" one often hears.

  • زوجناكم||

    anazing man keep up

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Fucking Chris Christie.

    I'm with Groovus; how did anybody think that fat fuck was anything other than a power-hungry bully who wants to tell everybody what to do. He's just as bad as Bloomberg.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    The so-called Fair Tax is fucking dumb. Any tax that large would be hugely distortionary, and create a gigantic incentive to find ways to circumvent it.

  • James Anderson Merritt||

    Perhaps, but if you didn't also have to pay income tax, withholding tax, and certain other taxes, you may find yourself not so motivated to get around the sales tax. Even if so, remember that Johnson wants to cut Federal size and spending dramatically, and that his stated goal is actually to lower the Fair Tax rate as far as possible.

  • Eaglewing||

    We're already paying it in other forms. It will become obvious to everyone how much they are really paying for gov't "service" when they see it printed right on the receipt.
    As long as there are taxes, people will cheat. Cheating on the Fair Tax, however, will require a co-conspirator. You could legally avoid paying it by buying used items, since it would only be charged on new products and services.
    Get the fucking facts before you decide it's fucking dumb.

  • sloopyinca||

    Predictions for today:

    Oregon beats USC by at least 21
    ND beats Pitt by 14
    KSU beats O(kie)SU by 4
    TTU beats Texas by 28 (and Mack Brown announces he will retire after the season)
    LSU beats Bama by 1
    and in the important game of the day
    tOSU beats Illinois by 14

    Also, Lolo Jones is on GameDay. Damn, she really is a good looking woman.

  • sloopyinca||

    Apparently Denard Robinson's out for the Minnesota game. I guess his vaginitis got worse as the game got closer.

  • Generic Stranger||

    10 points too high for you spread on Oregon and USC.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    I'm not sure ID is much better.

    I'm sure you're right, but in the places I lived in Idaho, I never saw the outright anti-capitalism, anti-business, anti-private-property sentiments I see here. You'd have to be crazy to relocate anything but a sole proprietor one man operation into this state. I have been kicking around ideas for a couple of manufactured products, and if something actually comes together, there is no fucking way they would ever be made in the state of Montana.

    I've never lived in Utah; maybe i should give it a look. Better skiing (than Montana) anyway.

  • Paul.||

    I've never lived in Utah; maybe i should give it a look. Better skiing (than Montana) anyway.

    Neither as good as Vermont... or so I'm told.

  • ||

    ..the places I lived in Idaho, I never saw the outright anti-capitalism, anti-business, anti-private-property sentiments I see here. You'd have to be crazy to relocate anything but a sole proprietor one man operation into this state.

    You're right. The trade is I can live in a rural environment and still enjoy the perks of the modern world here. When I lived in Mountain Home, ID, you couldn't find a microbrew in the entire town. Now I live in Belt (pop 600) and have a brewery on main street. We found rural Idaho to be a lot more redneck (for lack of a better term) than rural Montana.

    Boise is another story, if you are into the city thing.

    Trade-offs.

    South Dakota has really taken up a pro growth capitalistic approach lately. The Black Hills are beautiful, although getting crowded.

  • Paul.||

    Gary Johnson's Closing Statement in Ohio: "Vote for the Person You Believe In"

    Liberals are. They believe in the person who lied to them, fucked them, went against everything they believe, but did it because of politics. Because they believe in politics.

  • T o n y||

    We'll just take your word on that.

  • Paul.||

    Don't take my word for it! Take a liberal's word for it:

    The Derider|10.18.12 @ 12:38PM|#


    Obama's against marijuana due to politics.

    Romney's against marijuana due to ideology.

    As legalization becomes more popular, Obama probably will change his policy, like on gay marriage.

    Romney won't.

    reply to this

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/10.....nt_3322160

  • T o n y||

    You can't win elections without engaging in politics. Compared to the ever-shapeshifting Romney, when we're talking about adherence to principles, Obama might as well be the pope.

  • Paul.||

    I believe that Shapeshifting Romney is shapeshifting out of...politics.

    It's why Obama did so much shapeshifting. Because of politics. So I'm not sure what we're even arguing here.

    Romney's trying to get elected, so he'll say, well, anything. Obama? Ditto.

  • ||

    Unbelievable that Joe wrote that less then a month ago....4 years after Obama promised to not go after medical marijuana.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, I'll at least give more liberals credit for voting their conscience. The vast majority believe in Team Blue causes because their entire ideology is based on fucking over every person with more than them.

    As far as Team Red goes, I'd say there are a lot more of them holding their nose and voting for Romney even though they know he is a milquetoast conservative at best and a big government liberal RINO at worst.

    So the math, as I see it, goes like this: 40% of voters will vote their conscience for Obama. 9% will vote based on race/identity politics for Obama. 15% will vote their conscience for Romney. 30% will hold their nose and vote for Romney (but really against Obama. 6% will vote based on race/identity politics for Romney.

    Thoughts?

  • sloopyinca||

    This is the popular vote only. I still have no clue how the EV will go.

  • robc||

    Romney 269
    Obama 266
    Paul 3

    Im still holding out for the "Thats Dr Pauls music!" scenario.

  • DK||

    Yes, but I wonder what would be more enjoyable:

    Romney: 269, Obama: 266, Paul: 3 - the Right imploring Paul to do the right thing and give his votes to Romney to avoid a Romney-Biden White House.

    Obama: 269, Romney: 266, Paul: 3 - the Left desperately arguing that the House should do the right thing and vote Obama in since he has the plurality of the EV. Bonus enjoyment for the cognitive dissonance if Romney wins the PV.

  • Paul.||

    I have a good liberal friend who, when confronted with the utter, bone-crushing failure that is Obama, shrugs and says he ultimately believes in "the system". this is a common thread I run into with my fellow liberals. They have this odd belief in "the system". They seem to enjoy politics for politics sake, where most of my fellow libertarians tend to despise politics. I really think there is something fundamental going on there.

    They (liberals) seem to take great pleasure... and often have a significant knowledge of congressional process. They can talk about committee rules and process details like a sports fan talks about third round draft picks. In the end, all I care about is the vote, and what law we just got stuck with.

    This is why Joe forcefully argued a few years ago that it didn't matter if Obama supported the Patriot act, as long as he complained quietly about it during Committee. It's a strange mindset, to be sure.

  • db||

    That's an interesting observation, and fits with my experience as well. They are very procedure oriented, and as long as the rules are followed, the outcomes are often immaterial.

  • T o n y||

    My highly scientific survey of right-wing conspiracy theorizing and tearful lashing out suggests and Obama win. Drudge has thrown in the towel, that's obvious.

  • Paul.||

    We agree! Biden 2016!

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Rehberg and Tester are two of the most disingenuous fucks I've ever listened to.

    No kidding. Of course, I hear a lot of, "TESTER GETS FREE SHIT FOR TEH VETZES!!!! YAY TESTER!!1"

    I would like to see Rehberg win, just to hear the lamentations. Unfortunately, that fucking retard thinks "border security" up here should be just as stupid and fucked up as it is in Arizona.

    A friend of mine was up near the border hunting deer recently, and some asshole from the Border Patrol chased them down and gave them the Third Degree for about an hour. He said when the BP agent asked what they were doing, his buddy responded, "WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT LOOK LIKE WE'RE DOING?"

  • Paul.||

    Lurking around the border with high powered weapons of mass destruction. BP agent should have killed them on sight.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Neither as good as Vermont

    Now you're just being silly.

  • Paul.||

    Like I said, "Or so I'm told".

    You probably missed our "Kansas is flat" discussion regarding Vermont skiing last week. Opinion was divided. I believed in the "Kansas is flat" theory when applied to Vermont Skiing, Vermont Skiers were convinced that Vermont was one big Double Black Diamond.

  • ||

    One big Double Black Diamond covered with ICE! Skiing in the east should be referred to as skidding.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    a sound byte of him saying, "I think Montana would be better off with a sales tax."

    If he's not a complete moron (problematic, at best), the rest of that quote would be, "because that would be better than the idiotic business equipment tax we have now."

  • The Late P Brooks||

    You probably missed our "Kansas is flat" discussion regarding Vermont skiing last week.

    I did.

    What I *will* say about Eastern skiing (I learned to ski in upstate New York) is you learn why they put those metal edges on skis, and how to use them. There are a lot of western skiers who have never actually carved a turn in their lives.

  • db||

    Isn't that the truth.

  • Paul.||

    Hmm, not sure where you're coming from on this, are you saying that it's more icy in the east?

    Never did any skiing (boarding) in the east so I defer to you.

    If that is what you're talking about, harder, icier snow, I would say years... what, 2005-2007 were abysmal snow years here in the NW and I really built some chops (and busted my chops) on the veritable ice skating that was occurring here and in Whistler, BC. Broke my wrist in... 06?

    Anyway, if that's not what you mean, explain.

  • ||

    Yes ICE. Ice like you cannot even imagine.

    I grew up in NE PA. Elk Mountain. ICE. Top to bottom, all day, every day. Skied VT numerous times. Less ice than PA, but not much.

    People who grew up in the west, where ice on a ski mountain is virtually nonexistent, can't even imagine. As a kid, I'd need to sharpen my edges every third day of skiing.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    are you saying that it's more icy in the east?

    Yes. Yes I am.

  • nlleigh||

    Mr. Johnson, you are clearly more concerned with yourself than you are with the state of America. You may, indeed, throw a wrench in the works, effecting the outcome of the election. But if Obama wins, you will come to regret it!

  • Paul.||

    Tee hee.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Same for Brooksie. Would love to hear from anyone here about their opinions on ID

    I lived in Ketchum for a few years. It would be an outlier no matter what state it was in. I would have been happy to move back, but buying a place was completely out of the question.
    Twenty-five years ago, I spent my first MBA year at the University of Idaho, in Moscow (excellent economics dept at that time, in my opinion). I liked Moscow, but the economy is not exactly diversified.
    I used to go to Sandpoint to ski; I liked it, but it always showed upon those "Hottest Yuppie Douchebag Vacation Towns" lists.
    Coeur d'Alene is a beautiful place, and civilization (Spokane) is just down the road.

    I like the Pocatello area. I never spent a LOT of time there, but it seems to be a nice place. I shopped for a place in Pocatello, but before I found anything there, I stumbled onto a place in Montana which was exactly what I was looking for; a barn (now my shop) on twenty acres, with no house. A town big enough for a Costco close, but not too close. Little did I know it was such a ComSymp stronghold.

  • Cdr Lytton||

    Your property is pretty much what we're looking for, minus the ComSymps (Montcoms?) and cold. One of my buddies is from Eastern MT and those winters are just too brutal for me.

    We've considered Coeur d'Alene but it's grown quite a bit over the last couple of years too and Spokane is growing ever closer.

    Sandpoint is behind CBP's Iron Curtain so that's crossed out.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Helena seems pretty bad, too.

    PARASITISM CENTRAL.

  • GlobalPoliticalAwakening||

    Be The 5 Percent! http://www.bethe5percent.com/

  • GlobalPoliticalAwakening||

    Remember, Remember the 5th of November!
    http://freeandequal.org/update.....-november/

  • tagtann||

    These guys really seem to know what they are talking about, I like the whole idea.

    www.u-privacy.tk

  • Brandon Magoon||

    There is no evidence that "3rd" parties take votes away from the legacy parties and in fact there is quite a bit of evidence to support the theory that the legacy parties take votes from "3rd" parties. If you look at polling data (you know, facts and stuff) you see that "3rd" party candidates tend to under preform. That's the old party taking votes. You also have to consider the fact that opposition parties have to meet unfair ballot access rules and the legacy parties are given tax money to run their operations and campaigns.

    http://www.ballot-access.org/2...../#comments

    http://www.ballot-access.org/2...../#comments

  • nike001||

    It's like listening to a story heard half of the back, but I do not want to know that people are not able to carry below. In http://www.cheapfootballcleatsmall.com/ addition, Mr. Wu was the second conversion is also very intriguing.

  • nikea||

    This energy “rebound effect” has important implications for efforts to restrain climate change through conservation. Various studies have suggested that improvements in efficiency could reduce energy consumption enough to cut global carbon dioxide emissions by as much as 25 percent during the http://www.drdrebeatsbydreau.com/ next four decades. But this is a highly controversial area of scholarship.

GET REASON MAGAZINE

Get Reason's print or digital edition before it’s posted online

  • Progressive Puritans: From e-cigs to sex classifieds, the once transgressive left wants to criminalize fun.
  • Port Authoritarians: Chris Christie’s Bridgegate scandal
  • The Menace of Secret Government: Obama’s proposed intelligence reforms don’t safeguard civil liberties

SUBSCRIBE

advertisement