Join Us as Reason Live Tweets the Final 2012 Presidential Debate. Now!

Here we are at the final presidential debate. Tonights topic is foreign policy, so get your globe out and your drink poured. Reason staff will be tweeting relevant news, views, and abuse all evening.

After it's over, join Reason's own Jacob Sullum for a Google+ Hangout to talk about what we have just witnessed.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    First!

  • sloopyinca||

    You dick!

    /Spicoli

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Tap the Keg!

  • sloopyinca||

    Fisrt, motherfuckers.

    I predict a Giants win, a Bears win and a debate not worth watching.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Wrong.

  • Banjos||

    Fisrt, indeed.

  • Bam!||

    Awww, they got a little table. Like a child's tea party.

  • sloopyinca||

    Once. Just once I wish the brain trust at reason would allow reader comments.

  • Bam!||

    Bob Schieffer's wrist watch looks like some serious bling.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Mitt won the Toss again!

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot booting up.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Hope and change. Really, Mitt?

  • sloopyinca||

    Romney won "the toss"? Do they still play soggy biscuit to see who goes first? I thought they cut that out after Carter-Reagan.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Bammy's got his mad dog face on.

  • Bam!||

    Obama's trying to melt RomneyBot with his laser eyes.

    Jeez, look at Obama's blink rate.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    I'm already drunk. Game over, man. Game over!

  • ||

    What the fuck we sposta to do now?

  • A Serious Man||

    I hate the Giants with every fiber of my being, so if they loose I'll be happy in spite of this debate.

  • Fluffy||

    But they're playing the Cardinals.

    I've hated the Cardinals since fucking Whitey Herzog. That's a long time to hate a team.

  • A Serious Man||

    Fuck, they're about to break it open in the third.

  • sloopyinca||

    "Iran is the most dangerous nation in "the region"? Since when is Iran in northern Africa? Jesus, that's like saying we're in "the region of" Argentina.

  • Bam!||

    "America's Safe" argument? That's from Bush's playbook.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I bet those dead ambassador's feel safe

  • free2booze||

    Obama losing his voice?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I bet Pakistani wedding parties feel safe.

  • Lisa||

    "we can't kill our way out of this mess"

    You're no fun anymore

  • free2booze||

    "We can't kill out way out of this"

    ZING!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I've been hunting al Queda's core leadership at wedding throughout the mideast.

  • Sudden||

    "We can't kill our way out of this mess"

    I think Romney just lost the GOP base.../

  • A Serious Man||

    Note: I'm watching the debate on YouTube without sound since I'm in a lecture and forgot my headphones. So I think I'll get more out of it than the rest of you guys.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    No troops on the ground, KUZ we gotz dronez

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I got rid of the one dictator that gave up his WMDs.

  • Sudden||

    #4 that we would blame a youtube video.

  • Fluffy||

    I wish instead of bullshitting us about foreign policy, these guys would instead be tied in a chair and forced to talk to us for 90 minutes about the Anthony Abbate case from Evening Links.

    I had forgotten that cocksucker got probation. Fucking probation!

    Obama went and took up murder droning of Americans and Anthony Abbate is fucking still walking around alive. I want a fucking answer to THAT, Obama.

  • Andrew S.||

    Silly. He just needs to invite Abbate and the bartender he beat the crap out of to a beer summit at the White House, and all will be perfect, as ordained by Obama!

  • Bam!||

    @KennedyNation - Saving money and losing lives! What a bargain.

  • sloopyinca||

    Took leadership...international coalition...got rid of a despot...

    Jesus. Does he really believe people are gonna buy this dodge on a direct question about Americans being killed because his admin failed to adequately defend the station at Benghazi?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Foreign policy is so not in Romney's wheelhouse.

  • Fluffy||

    Assad murders people?

    Gee, maybe we should hire him to run the drone program.

  • sloopyinca||

    Obama's "been glad" three times already.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    There are no happy endings here

  • sloopyinca||

    If I win the comment thread, I've been told I'll get a happy ending tonight.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    If I'm not getting any tonight, you sure as hell aren't either.

    Romneybot! Activate Cockblocker ver. 3.6!

  • Banjos||

    I don't know who he is planning on getting some from tonight, this prego is too bloated and tired to even entertain the idea.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - Romney so frozen in the fifties that he's still worried about the red menace.

  • Bam!||

    Obama's on a tear.

  • Rich||

    But he keeps looking down -- body language.

    Also, what's with "all over the map"? He's all over the map with that.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Let's just get the fuck out of Afghanistan already.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Stop being mean to me! :(

  • sloopyinca||

    Obama said Romney "still wants troops in Iraq"? He still has fucking troops in Iraq. Romneybot needs to beat him over the head with the Bush timeline for pulling out and Obama fighting the withdraw but the Iraqi government telling him to go fuck himself.

  • Rich||

    Again with the "not true".

  • sloopyinca||

    Obama said Romney "still wants troops in Iraq"? He still has fucking troops in Iraq. Romneybot needs to beat him over the head with the Bush timeline for pulling out and Obama fighting the withdraw but the Iraqi government telling him to go fuck himself.

  • Sudden||

    Russia might actually be the greater national security threat over the long term...

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I've changed my mind on that - STFU.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Here we go...

  • Lisa||

    flexibility! That should've been a drinking cue.

  • Sudden||

    Instead, I'd put 10,000 civilian contractors with DRONEZZZ in Iraq.

  • Bam!||

    Obama is prepped for this debate.

  • A Serious Man||

    Obama: "You got to be clear"

    I don't think I've ever heard him say that.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Let me be clear!

  • Rich||

    The correct formulation is "Let me be clear."

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama demonstrates once again that he's a cargo cultist.

  • Jerry on the road||

    "Let me be clear..." Drink!

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Fuck all of this Arab-Persian blather, when does China-hate/Yellow Peril ranting start?

    Dey terkin' jerbs!

  • Drake||

    Mitt was doing something evil with a state-run Chinese oil company!!!

    Does that make Obama mad because it's state-run, or an oil company? Or do they even out?

  • sloopyinca||

    "Nation Building"? Not a single place in the world needs us doing nation building. A military is not built to nation build, dumbass.

  • SIV||

    daveweigel@daveweigel
    Time for Romney to deploy the Jerk Store weapon
  • SIV||

    Who invited that douchebag Weigel?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Less of the Weigel is always better.

  • sloopyinca||

    They let that fuck comment and won't give Epi and/or SF the proverbial mic? What, does Weigel have tix to the post-debate cocktail party?

  • sloopyinca||

    "We've mobilized the world to say Assad has to go."

    Wow. That's gonna accomplish quite a lot.

  • A Serious Man||

    Hans Blix: ...or else we'll be very angry with you, and you may even receive a letter, telling you how angry we are at you.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Romney should just admit that his foreign policy won't be any different that Bammy's but say that he'll execute it effectively and won't go around apologizing everywhere.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Basically this.

  • Rich||

    Good suggestion. We'll see.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    The thing is that he can't bring himself to say anything close because the neo-cons advising him want to believe that Bammy is Carter and this is 1980 all over again (better yet 1938).

  • Andrew S.||

    There is not enough alcohol in the world to get me to watch this debate.

  • What's that smell?||

    Is this a debate or a monologue?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    It's a carpet cleaner and a dessert topping!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Justin Stangel ‏@Justin_Stangel
    SHOCKING: Bob Schieffer not wearing pants #debates

  • A Serious Man||

    There are moderate forces in Syria?

    And what if they choose the non-moderates Mr. President?

    Is there any logical way to let a nation develop on its own when you're position is that there are paths they can choose to take that you don't want?

  • Bam!||

    Obama practiced his "Look At RomneyBot" pose.

  • ||

    On the one hand, I keep thinking "fuck this shit, I'm going to go take a shower".

    One the other hand, foreign policy is the one thing that Presidents ACTUALLY CAN affect. Unlike the economy or the budget like everyone seems to use as their method for selecting presidents.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Romney - Iran's a landlocked country. We've got to block their route to the sea.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Iran isn't landlocked -- it has access to the Persian Gulf.

  • Calidissident||

    That's his point

  • sloopyinca||

    Gigantes 5
    Cardinals 0

    This shit is over.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    They get to lose to the Tigers?

  • A Serious Man||

    I just don't get how the Giants with that lineup made it past the Reds. Other than Posey who do they have that's good on paper?

  • sloopyinca||

    They're gonna be 7-0 in games they could have been eliminated in this postseason. That's fucking incredible.

  • A Serious Man||

    Baseball is the only sport I truly love and I'm a Dodger fan so this just sickens me. We practically buy the Red Sox and turn them into a farm team and we get second place to the team that has Marco Scutaro as their second best hitter.

  • sloopyinca||

    When the Tigers made it to the World Series, we all lost.

  • sloopyinca||

    Gigantes 5
    Cardinals 0

    This shit is over. Too bad the Cardinals couldn't win. I was looking forward to somebody asking Obama if he would root for the Cardinals or Tigers in the World Series just to see him twist in the wind (since they're both swing states).

  • Sudden||

    And both division rivals to Chicago teams.

  • Calidissident||

    If anyone chooses who they're voting for based on baseball rooting interests, all hope for this country is lost

  • sloopyinca||

    I agree. They should base them on college football interests.

    Personally, I could never, ever support a candidate that either supports or went to the University of Michigan.

  • Virginian||

    Which means your least favorite POTUS must be Gerald Ford!

  • A Serious Man||

    Maybe he'll get to show off his girly arm by throwing out the first pitch at one of the games.

  • Bam!||

    Imagine if we pulled out at that point -- An ambassador would still be alive.

  • Skip||

    When did Kadaffy duck become Public Enemy Number One again? He was a harmless crackpot by 2011. Obama is the one living in the 80s.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    "Thoughtful leadership" vis a vis Libya? Hah! Does anyone believe that, after what has happened in Libya (to include the death of a US ambassador).

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - yeah I wanted to get Ghaddafi from the very beginning.

    WTF??

    Romeny can't win this debate because he doesn't disagree with Bammy's policies.

  • Lisa||

    Yeah, even though he didn't want to kill him or overthrow his regime.

  • Rich||

    Ask Romney about using drones.

  • ||

    Apparently they are both adamant that they have exactly the same foreign policy, which is 180 degrees opposite from the other guys policy.

  • Calidissident||

    ^This

  • Sudden||

    Fuck, Romney's Syria position is less direct (aka: kinetic) than Obama's Libya policy was.

  • FD||

    Giants over Cards would be acceptable, since St. Louis is the incumbent.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Yay! Let's fuck up Syria now! Neocons, HOOOOOOOOOO!

  • Bam!||

    Romney needs to tap out and bring in Clint Eastwood to pinch hit for him.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Well, I'm glad everyone agrees that we should DO SOMETHING about Syria.

  • Bam!||

    Obama's foreign policy: Community organize Egypt and Syria.

  • Jerry on the road||

    Quadaffi killed more Americans than Saddam Hussein?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Entrepreneurship conferences in Egypt organized by the Obama administration? That should fix the country right up!

    Maybe Egypt can get a primer on business ethics from Bernie Madoff.

  • A Serious Man||

    Oh boy, Obama wants to bring capitalism to Egypt. Why can't we do that in this country?

  • Ken Shultz||

    +1

  • Rich||

    "Rebuild the economy in a non-corrupt way."

    Hey, I thought this was a *foreign* policy debate!

  • Lisa||

    Get to Israel....then we should see some real disagreement

  • ||

    Maybe we should give Egypt a lesson in printing money.

    Egypt needs MOAR STIMULUS!!!!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    They just haven't spent enough money on their government (Egypt's public sector == 40% GDP).

  • ||

    They obviously need to hire some more cops, teachers, and firefighters.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot: We need to a strong economy, our debt is a problem; Lets spend more on the military! It's second to none already, clearly it needs more money.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Obama appears to be winning! thus far
    #tigerblod

  • FD||

    Does it change minds?

  • Rich||

    Our roll in the world? Parker House!

  • Lisa||

    Romney, leave the meaningless platitudes to the pros. "we want a peaceful world" Everyone wants a peaceful world! Contrary to popular opinion, warmongers want a peaceful world. They just want to own it.

  • Bam!||

    He thinks this is a Miss America pageant.

  • Rich||

    Aren't you glad, though, that he stands for our principles and favors a strong economy?

  • sloopyinca||

    "What's our role in the world"?

    A: To be a trade partner with willing nations and to set an example of liberty others can emulate.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "What's our role in the world"?

    A: Drones everywhere all the time.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot _really_ wants to talk about the economy after getting flogged by Obama in the first 30 minutes.

  • A Serious Man||

    Romney: People tend to vote for peace; they don't vote for war.

    Ron Paul would disagree.

  • Lisa||

    Ron Paul doesn't know much about foreign policy. A vote for war is a vote for perceived better trade offs.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    People tend to vote for peace

    Romneybot is malfunctioning again.

  • Calidissident||

    Romney: We need to build up the military because something could happen at some point

  • ||

    Props to Romney for continuing to change the subject back to the economy.

  • Calidissident||

    Taking more money out of the private sector to give to the MIC is really going to help the economy

  • A Serious Man||

    I don't see how that's a losing strategy. He looks terrible trying to out neo-con Obama.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Yeah, that's definitely his strong point (rhetorically speaking).

  • FD||

    Clinton was a master of that. And being a hick with Oxford as his only foreign policy experience didn't hurt him.
    Because, Mittens, you gotta stay on message!

  • A Serious Man||

    Jesus Mitt, we can cut unnecessary waste from our military budget. If he gets elected I hope Rand Paul becomes the voice of reason on this issue within the GOP.

  • ||

    The Hoppa was 2 minutes behind live TV. I was thinking, fuck, you guys are fast typers.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    The Miss America debate, folks. Everyone loves world peace, democracy, education, and of course who can forget the young, freedom-loving people of color in the Middle East who just need our help.

  • ||

    The Miss America debate, folks.

    Winner.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Al Gore ‏@algore
    Advantage Obama. #current2012

  • ||

    Romney: Foreign policy is really about domestic economic policy.
    Lets talk about economic policy again.

  • Bam!||

    If he actually said that, I'd give him props. It's actually true.

  • db||

    granted it's true but he would have to actually make the case not just say it.

  • db||

    Really? I'm not watching but is he really so unprepared to diff him and O on foreign policy that he has to do this?

  • Calidissident||

    "Asking the wealthy" and "investing" in the same sentence? Drink the whole bottle please

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot's blind rate has increased since the start of the debate. He knows he's in trouble.

    Obama's still on HyperBlink.

  • ||

    Obama wants to change the subject back to the economy too.

    Obama: Lets talk about energy independent and job retraining!!

  • MWG||

    Nation building at home and no more foreign gas!

    -Obama

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I'll cut the deficit by asking the rich to pay a little bit more so that I can invest in companies like Solyndra and Fisker. Because we get energy independent by wasting money on bankrupt renewables.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    But I just heard an ad saying that's how they'll pay for eductation and student loans. And free ladyparts stuff. And disabilities and retirement homes.

    Wow, that "little bit more" sure does stretch! How's he do it? Coupons?

  • ||

    This moderator is doing an excellent job.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I like the minimalist approach to.

  • Jerry on the road||

    He's moderating from behind.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney sounds pretty damn good right now.

  • MWG||

    A gender for the future?

  • Rich||

    Latin America! Ole!

  • Bam!||

    See, here's the problem with trying to turn it into a non-foreign policy debate: It's not! No follow up questions about, say, education policy will be asked. Therefore, it won't be anything substantive.

  • Bam!||

    Official: It's no longer about foreign policy.

  • ||

    Romney: Obama said he'd pull 9 million jobs out of his ass. I promose to pull 12 MILLION JOBS out of my ass. TOP THAT OBAMA!!!

  • sloopyinca||

    Did somebody pay Romney to take a dive?

  • mr simple||

    If I had no idea what was going on in the world (i.e. an average voter) I might say that Obama was winning tonight.

  • A Serious Man||

    Mitt's going all out on the economy/budget hawk line, too bad he won't cut a dime from the military.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - Only poor people can have small businesses.

  • Rich||

    Nice catch.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure some small business owners make more than $250,000, which is Obama's cutoff for "the rich"

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Only the successful ones. So it's OK.

  • Calidissident||

    I thought this was about foreign policy?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Moar Teacherz!

  • Rich||

    Education! All American children will be able to locate Syria on a map!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Obama: small businesses don't include businesses owned by rich people.

    Maybe you should check your definitions, Mr President.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I don't care what studies show - talk to the teachers!

  • ||

    MOAR TEACHERZ!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    MATT DAMON!!

  • 16th amendment||

    WTF, how did a foreign policy debate transform into talk about the economy? I must have been sleeping.

  • Rich||

    It's a global economy, 16th. Please try to keep up.

  • Bam!||

    Education spending != Education outcomes.

  • ||

    Now they're talking about small business and education policy.

    Nobody actually wants to discuss foreign policy apparently.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Doubling funding is slashing education.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Doubling funding is slashing education.

  • MWG||

    I just started watching. It sounds like Obama is beating Romney... am I wrong about that?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    There are no winners here. Just two different brands of suck.

  • Bam!||

    Soundly.

  • A Serious Man||

    The mod seems to be cool with letting both candidates take the topic of discussion to wherever they want.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Bob Schieffer is letting them wander off the reservation.

  • sloopyinca||

    And Romney's getting scalped by Obama.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Good. I'm sick of them fighting over who will blow up more weddings.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Fuck teachers - they're not that important.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Public schools will save us! I believe in 4th graders!

  • Rich||

    Well, half of 'em want to be President.

  • Bam!||

    Bob Schieffer to candidates: Fuck you, guys! THIS IS MY DEBATE! Foreign policy, you dopes.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Jon Gruden!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    A highly-skilled workforce don't mean shit if your workforce is also mobile and the business climate is bad.

    Throwing money at education is not equivalent to maintaining a highly skilled workforce, at any rate. Relative to other developed countries, we have a much higher number of high school and college grads (most Euro countries have a two-track system). We are most likely at the reasonable limit for marginal gains from education.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot to Bob Schieffer: Fuck you, Bobby! ObamaCare, MediCare!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Good for him. The Miss America With Nukes routine is something no one wants to hear.

  • ||

    Scheiffer: Lets talk about defense spending.
    Romney: Let's talk about ObamaCare and the budget deficit.

  • Calidissident||

    Romney is full of shit if he thinks his plan will balance the budget and the concept of paying for tax cuts is backwards and idiotic Obama

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - If I had been president I would have cut defense spending.

  • FD||

    This was hilarious. But hazelmeade's "moar stimulus" for the Middle East still gets my number one pick.

  • FD||

    Not watching but the economy is preferable to both. Keeps Romney in a comfort zone and keeps Obama safely off the Benghazi issue.

  • free2booze||

    Romney let Obama off the hook on Benghazi. Doesn't want to talk about it.

  • FD||

    Strange....

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Yeah he blew it big time there.

  • A Serious Man||

    Again with notion of "paying" for tax cuts. Not taking does not equal giving.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - the budget I put forward.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHA

  • ||

    He doddled it on a napkin and Harry Reid wiped his ass with it.

  • FD||

    Ha! You are just frigging' zinging it tonight! Maybe quit while you're ahead. :)

  • Shmenge||

    The Giants are killing the Cards

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Obama: let's think about cyber-space!

  • Rich||

    Question for both: Would you respond to a devastating cyberattack with nukes?

  • A Serious Man||

    Obama loves it when a plan comes together. And the deficit is a national security issue!

  • ||

    Military spending that the military isn't asking for. That may just be because their boss has informed them they would not be asking for additional spending.

    Just sayin.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Romney keeps going to the I brought republicans and democrats together shtick.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think he's trying to be appealing to women.

  • Rich||

    He should use Axe, then.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Pitching to the independents. They love that stuff.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot wants more sea men.

  • Calidissident||

    Why does our peacetime military permanently need to be able to fight two wars at once?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    That's how empire works.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Because War is Peace.

    Ignorance is Strength.

    Freedom is Slavery.

  • John||

    Because if you can't, you leave yourself open to attack anytime you fight a war.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Oh, let's talk about military spending Romney. Because this is what people want to hear: how we're going to spend more money on something that positively impacts almost no one. Good job, Romney.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Obama: We must project military power across the globe.

    Romney: Oh yeah? Well let's build bigger ships and more airplanes.

    War-boner! Fuck yeah!

  • ||

    Obama want to project power with his mighty brain.

    Romney wants to project it with his phallic weapons.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Point: Barack Obama.

  • Calidissident||

    I hate Obama but I gotta admit he's owning Romney on the Navy thing. There were some good lines in there

  • Romulus Augustus||

    I'm listening on radio. Obama is cleaning Romney's clock right now but the horseshit by both of them is overwhelming. Calling Mr. Hercules.

  • sloopyinca||

    This is idiotic. Romney trying to out-liberal Obama on domestic policy while Obama tries to out-neocon Romney on his "killing foreigners" programs. It's like the bizzaro debate.

    And what makes me sick is that Ron Paul would be destroying Obama by taking his anti-war base away as well as the military families that are sick to death of war.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Get it through your head: there is no anti-war base. Never was. It was always the anti-Bush base. Paul for president would never stand a chance in this world of ours. But he wouldn't be blowing it this pathetically.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    There's no anti-war base, but there's definitely antipathy towards whatever the hell it is we're supposed to be doing in Afghanistan and the Middle East in general right now.

    Americans have seen how bad the Middle East is at acting in a civilized fashion, and that's really gotten in the way of sympathizing with democratization efforts paid for by Uncle Sam.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, there's no anti-war base. That would explain why Paul got more money from active duty troops than all the other candidates on both sides of the aisle combined.

    There's an anti-war base. It's called the military.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    How can you out neo-con Obama? Especially when the country is sick of wars.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Israel!

  • Jerry on the road||

    Drones Mr. President, Drones Mr. President!

  • sloopyinca||

    "We have these things called aircraft carriers."

    What a presidential response.

  • Calidissident||

    I thought it was actually kind of hilarious when he said that. Romney's point about the number of ships was idiotic

  • Cytotoxic||

    What did Romneybot say? I'm curious.

  • Calidissident||

    "We have the fewest number of ships since 1917, and that's unacceptable" or something along those lines. 300 ships in 2012 is a bit different than 300 ships in 1917

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney: "LESS SHIPS THAN ANY TIME SINCE 192something!!!"

    Derp.

  • Calidissident||

    This is actually a better summation than mine

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    He's right, though.

    He's an asshole, but he's right.

    Carrier battle groups are where it's at.

  • sloopyinca||

    I know, but there's a better way to make that point and sound presidential instead of like a smarmy-assed prick.

  • ||

    Yeah. I'll be surprised if the "THERE ARE THINGS CALLED AIRCRAFT CARRIERS. THEY'RE BOATS WHAT HAS PLANES LAND ON 'EM" doesn't become a Youtube meme.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Depend's on what the mission is.

    And if our adversaries get effective anti-ship missiles.

  • Proprietist||

    o mi god im totely drnuk *hiccup*

  • Lisa||

    The "we don't have as many horses or bayonets either" line sounds good, except for the fact that technology follows the money.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Less than you would think, actually.

  • Skip||

    Romney needs to shake things up and attack Obama from the left on something, but his neo-con advisors are too stupid to let him.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Romneybot just rebooted.

  • Bam!||

    His forced half-smile is starting to fade.

  • ||

    Okay, now they are going to try to beat eachother in crushing Israel to death with hugs.

  • ||

    hey, when you have a shining beacon of democracy amongst a throng of autocratic and authoritarian theistic scumbaggery, you prop it up

  • sloopyinca||

    That's why so many of us are supporters of CopBlock.org

  • Calidissident||

    Fuck you Obama

    (regarding the "last resort" line)

  • Rich||

    Romney *must* be saving a game-changing zinger for later in the debate.

  • sloopyinca||

    "We've destroyed Iran's economy".

    Yeah, and any possible chance that the Iranian people would ever trust us after you turned your back on them when they asked for support...any support...during the real Arab spring.

  • Calidissident||

    Just a corrections, but Iranians aren't Arabs. Sorry, just a pet peeve (my Persian friends get really annoyed when people confuse them with Arabs)

  • Calidissident||

    *correction

    damn squirrels

  • Drake||

    The Persian Dawn?

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Yep. We're picking a war with Iran. Obama just gave the Iranian's an ultimatum. Romney agrees, of course. Fuck me....

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney really is a goddamn moron. He could be cleaning Obama's clock on foreign policy if he were even slightly willing to eschew the idea that the US should be everywhere, all the time, promoting All Good Things with our military.

  • SIV||

    What's wrong with bayonets?

  • Calidissident||

    Sanctions have worked so well in North Korea and Cuba ...

  • ||

    considering how much the cuban govt. whines about sanctions and the "friends of cuba" call for the lifting of same, well...

  • Ken Shultz||

    They have $140 billion to spend, and then it's total capitulation.

    North Korea and Cuba could starve a few million people to death or let a wave of people jump in the ocean and paddle to Florida, respectively.

    It ain't like that with Iran. They're scared to death their people will go all Persian Spring on their asses.

  • Lisa||

    I differ with most libertarians in that I believe in deterrence. So I don't think Romney needs to cut the military budget. We can reverse legislation but it's harder to reverse an invasion, and I think more countries would invade us than they would any of the other countries that Obama pointed out as having smaller military budgets.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I don't understand why we're still in Germany.

    They have enough money to bail out the rest of Europe; why can't they defend their own damn country?

  • Lisa||

    I think the Pentagon is closing bases in Germany http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    My thought is that we could probably balance the budget without cuts to the military. If we have to cut it, we should. But I don't see it as something for which there is a better private sector alternative.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Just because there isn't a great private sector alternative to their core mission doesn't mean it couldn't get smaller.

    Maybe they don't need to be replaced--maybe they just need to get smaller.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Um. No. Nobody's going to invade us. We are however going bankrupt.

  • Calidissident||

    Who the fuck is going to invade us if we cut military spending? Canada?

  • ||

    With their beady eyes and flappin' heads.

  • Cytotoxic||

    HA ha! How ridiculous! *shifty eyes*

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Obama: I'm not saying that I will blow up Iran, but I might blow up Iran.

    Romney: I really wanna blow up Iran.

    Alcohol induced coma, take me in your loving arms.

  • Rich||

    Ooops. Romney said "*If* I am President". Not confident enough to be a Leader.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot: Words might not hurt, but they are genocide.

  • ||

    Romney got their back, and Obama's got their front.
    It's a Romney-Israel-Obama sandwich.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure that's not kosher, or even parve.

  • FD||

    They are at halftime now. I mean Obama and Romney. 45 minutes to go, so time to start heaving it.
    Anyway, will this debate grab Ohio?
    Actually , I'm seriously asking.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Romney's surging in Ohio.

    If he gets in a bunch of digs at China, that'll help his chances.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    They're focused on the Del Boca Vista voters.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think that's what the Israel stuff is about for sure.

    It's about Florida.

  • sloopyinca||

    It's like you died and woke up in Jew heaven.

    /goodfellas

  • db||

    Go Gary Johnson!

  • SIV||

    Gary who?

  • Jerry on the road||

    Romney: "Let's use the UN to indict Ahmedinijad."

  • Gannicus||

    This is fucking depressing. Its Bush 2 against Bush 3 tonight. There's barely a difference between these two guys on foreign policy.

  • Calidissident||

    George Bush could be the first president to be elected five times if he wins in 2016

  • Rich||

    At least *these* Bushes don't say "nucular". That was horrible.

  • ||

    They both want to put pressure on Iran. You've got to keep the pressure on Iran's sensitive parts. You have to keep up the intrusive inspections.

  • Killazontherun||

    You see, our policy is a handjob for the mullahs.

  • ||

    You can't allow Iran to keep playing hard to get.

  • Bam!||

    Apparently RomneyBot's Alpha Male chip is only active when he's standing.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Jesse Walker ‏@notjessewalker
    These two guys are nice and all, but when do we get to hear from the other party?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Apology tour! DRINK!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Did Obama just give Bob a "the hell is this guy talking about" look?

  • db||

    So who is winning the debate among voters who matter (not us libertarians)?

  • Bam!||

    Obama.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Definitely Obama.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Bourbon is winning. My liver is definitely losing.

  • ||

    I dunno. It's impossible to tell considering they have exactly the same positions.

  • Bam!||

    Silly poster! The positions don't matter, it's how they're presented.

  • MWG||

    On style and aggressiveness? Obama.

  • Drake||

    Do voters who matter care about the Middle East and Africa? The economy is in the shitter.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Albert Brooks ‏@AlbertBrooks
    I was in the audience during the Apology Tour. Great fucking show.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    RomneyBot is getting hammered by Obama. Absolutely none of his attacks outside domestic policy are landing.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - Apologizing? Lies - Who you gonna believe fact checkers or your own ears?

  • Bam!||

    I want someone to do a time lapse of RomneyBot's face through this debate. He has becomes more and more worried as it's gone on.

  • FD||

    Then shame on him if he is. Obama's foreign policy is in shambles.
    Maybe his strategy was just to survive, and keep economying it.

  • Calidissident||

    It's hard to attack the incumbent's foreign policy when you agree with all of it

  • ||

    Romeny wants Iran to stop spinning it's centrifuges.

    Obama wants to tighten the constraints.

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    You're a dirty girl, Hazel.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, Romney, America (or more properly the US govt, cause that's who we're talking about) has only ever been about FREEDOM and JUSTICE when operating abroad

  • Bam!||

    Obama wins the Uber Jewish Panderer award.

  • Rich||

    Say something in Yiddish, Mr. President.

  • sloopyinca||

    Schvartzes!

  • Gannicus||

    I saw missile craters!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Obama: "I went to Yad Vashem to remind myself the nature of evil."

    You could have saved yourself a trip across the Atlantic by just going to Eric Holder's office.

  • Rich||

    Win.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Or looking in a mirror.

  • sloopyinca||

    Oh, Jesus Christ. Why don't they both convert to Judaism and be done with it.

    I swear, if there was a fourth debate, one of these guys would show up wearing a fucking beanie and a lite-brite thingy on his chest.

  • ||

    I wonder why they havn't thought of that yet.

  • Jerry on the road||

    The biggest joke is that Iran is getting all these minutes of airtime in a national debate. Isn't that giving Irani leaders a bit too much credit?!

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot wants to talk about China.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Israel's a big girl, you two. She can handle herself.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama didn't mention Poockey-stan.

  • Calidissident||

    Oh really?

  • An0nB0t||

    Turns out that two interventionists discussing the merits of intervention does not a good debate make. Whodathunkit?

  • Rich||

    Again with "all over the map". Say, this *is* a foreign policy debate!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I trample on other countries - you pussy!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Anecdote!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I'm blowing up furreners --- for the chillrens.

  • SIV||

    J.D. Tuccille@JD_Tuccille
    I wonder who Gary Johnson wants to blow up? Oh, that's right. He doesn't. #debates

    What about Kony? GayJay wants troops in sub-Saharan Africa.

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    Really? He stayed on the Get Kony bandwagon, even after the guy behind the video wound up naked and jacking it in San Diego?

  • ||

    Haven't I already heard this?

    It's just a jump to the left.

  • Drake||

    "We" killed Bin Laden! Chug!

  • Fluffy||

    Didn't Obama just openly admit that Pakistan was purposefully sheltering bin Laden?

  • ||

    Basically, yes.

  • ||

    He's been sitting on that one for a while. He can safely let the cat out of the bag.

  • ||

    Cue the release of the Bin Laden death photos.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Not a popular sentiment, but killing OBL (while worthwhile) was not terribly significant as anything but a morale victory. The first six months of OEF and our counterterrorism efforts in Yemen have been far more impactful in that regard.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think it made more politically palatable to leave.

  • Fluffy||

    The last government we accused of deliberately sheltering bin Laden got un-governmented.

  • Gannicus||

    Heart wrenching anecdote! Elect me based on this anecdote!

  • free2booze||

    Romney's pollster's must have liked what they saw prior to tonight's debate, because Romney is playing for a tie.

  • Bam!||

    He already has a tie, and it's better than Obama's.

  • FD||

    Not a bad strategy, as long as he doesn't look like a complete retard. And it's in him to do that at times.

  • Rich||

    The key question is: WTF are we doing in Afghanistan?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Giving Afghanis real live Americans to shoot at.

  • Rich||

    Now, *that's* training them!

  • Drake||

    Fumble by the Lions!

  • Skip||

    Romney should have had a good "I killed Osama herp derp" response. How could he not know it was coming?

  • Calidissident||

    This debate is essentially two guys arguing over stuff they agree with, with one guy calling the other a pussy, the other guy calling the first guy hotheaded and clumsy, and each guy trying to refute the other's characterization. In other words, not much of a debate

  • ||

    Two guys who basically agree about everything trying desperately to find something to argue about.

  • Fluffy||

    Obama said that if we asked Pakistan for bin Laden we wouldn't have gotten him.

    I've never heard an open statement from him to that effect (although it's something I suppose many people would just assume). But when you make it an open statement, the President of the United States just accused the government of Pakistan of deliberately sheltering bin Laden.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Yup -- jaw-dropping, really.

    Got to say it, Romney's more right than not about being circumspect when it comes to Pakistan so long as our troops are in Afghanistan.

  • Skip||

    Romney should have had a good "I killed Osama herp derp" response. How could he not know it was coming?

  • Montani Semper Liberi||

    Too bad Romney has decided to double down on the worst of neo-con foreign policy ideas or he could attack Obama on things like the "kill list", but since he would do the exact same thing or worse in the same place, he's really got nothing. His argument is basically that his foreign policy will be even more like GWB than Obama's is (if that's even possible).

  • ||

    I don;t really see that. I seem them both competing to be more "responsible" than Bush, while actually following the same policies.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    That would require stepping back from the brink.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Well, now we get to see two jerks lie shamelessly about how wonderful everything in Afghanistan is -- yay democracy!

  • Lisa||

    Nobody on Reason wants Israel to exist?

  • Bam!||

    Why is Israel's existence America's responsibility?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Israel's existence is assured. Israel has fought for and been victorious in countless sovereignty conflicts without our help, and will continue to do so.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I have no problem with Israel's existence.

    Not sure I understand why my future paychecks are going in that direction. Our support made a lot more sense back during the Cold War.

    ...but then so did our support for Mubarak. Times change. People change. Priorities change. Foreign policy should change along with that.

  • SIV||

    Israel is demographically unsustainable. It is in both their and the Palestinians interest to pursue integration. Good luck with that.

  • ||

    Jebus. Shit Flopney is getting his clock cleaned. Blowbama is a lock.

  • Banjos||

    For the best really. Do you really want this douche nozzle to be the voice of "free market capitalism"?

  • Calidissident||

    It's like these guys read the Reason drinking game rules before they debate

  • ||

    All Romney has to do is convince people that's he's not a Bush clone, actually. Nobody's voting on foreign policy this year.

  • Montani Semper Liberi||

    But on foreign policy, he is a Bush clone. That's the problem.

  • Bam!||

    So is Obama. Doesn't seem to be a problem for him.

  • ||

    He's sort of an Obama-Bush clone. I can't tell the different between Romney and Obama, or Obama and bush.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama's the one that blames terrorist attacks on American's big mouths.

    Just calling Obama on that would make me like Romney a little more.

  • ||

    Eh. Obama would lose his shit if Romney said that.

  • Drake||

    Or, Obama can convince people that a Bush clone is a better choice.

  • SIV||

    shikha sood dalmia@shikhadalmia
    Obama trying to out-tough Romney! And Dems are the party of peace.

    Party of peace? I guess they dropped the American history component from the citizenship test.

  • Calidissident||

    Cause that totally wasn't facetious

  • SIV||

    From Shikha it wasn't.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I think she was kidding.

  • SIV||

    Rmember, half the reason staff repeatedly refer to the Dems as the Party of civil liberties,drug legalization and, yes, anti-war.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Yeah, Romney should let Obama make himself look like a warmonger.

    That's the rap I'm hearing against Romney from undecided friends in California, anyway...

    They're afraid he's a "neocon" like George W. Bush.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Pah-ki-stan! Drink!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    "Nation building at home"

    DRINK

  • Killazontherun||

    But are those vet'ren jerbs shovel ready, prezzy?

  • Rich||

    Another *hick* anecdote!

  • Calidissident||

    How about changing certifications so that it's easier for everyone to work?

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot should've had Clint Eastwood prep him for foreign policy.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Did Obama equate Ghaddafi and Saddam?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    RomneyBot's right about Pakistan. In the context of Afghanistan and the Indosphere, it's an important country that we can't just wish away.

  • ||

    Yes, he just attempted to explain a very complex situation. I think it will be lost on the audience.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Whiffed the drone question.

  • Killazontherun||

    Just tuned in to the debate. Wife had the swell idea of watching Serenity. She is actually the fan of the series in the family. Married me because I look like Nathan.

  • ||

    Shiny!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Mitt loves the drones.

  • Rich||

    DRONES!

  • Calidissident||

    Romney: We just need the right Top.Man

  • Bee Tagger||

    Holliday is on first right now. Let's see if he takes it easy on himself and just carries a lead pipe down to 2nd base with him.

  • Bam!||

    Uhh, Obama, _we_ don't even have a free market system.

  • Rich||

    Pretty sure he means "black markets and bartering".

  • ||

    POCK-EE-STAHN!!! WAR ON WIMMINZ!!!! (over there that WoW stuff is real, by the by)

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    STL 0 SF 7 Top 6

  • ||

    Unless you're someone who's keenly interested in what these guys have to say, my overall take is, "nothing to see here, folks, just move along."

    In other words, boring, meaningless, and unlikely to have any net effect on the race.

    Anyone disagree?

  • Lyle||

    @ J.D. Tucille -- Watch the sky? You afraid of Obama or Romney blowing you up?

  • Drake||

    Everyone likes us now because we supported the Arab Spring?

  • Calidissident||

    Oh God this should be good. Yellow Peril!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Now let's talk about the yellow folks.

  • Bam!||

    Scheiffer: I want to talk about China, but I'm going to ask an open-ended question that is unrelated.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    If Romney doesn't shift this discussion to a general discussion of domestic policy, he's a bigger fool than I thought.

  • db||

    Doesn't sound like that's gone well for him so far...

  • ||

    He already did that. Unfortunately, the moderator keeps asking these annoying foreign policy questions.

  • db||

    Question: what is the viewership of the debate? With MNF and the NLCS on simultaneously?

  • Ken Shultz||

    Lower.

    And I think foreign policy makes most people fall asleep anyway.

  • ||

    I was just thinking the same thing. And after three debates already, I imagine the novelty has work off. Throw in the two games, and I'd say viewership for this debate is way down, versus the last three.

  • Bam!||

    Camp Romney is praying so.

  • Gannicus||

    China needs to play by all of the same rules, except our rules of subsidizing industries and nationalizing companies.

  • Killazontherun||

    Whose Kayla Westbrook? You bastards have been hiding her from us haven't you, editors?

  • Rich||

    Question for both: Are they cheaters, or merely inscrutable?

  • Calidissident||

    Oh my God cheap tires! Oh the horror!

  • ||

    Obama has a trailing hissing sound that's drivng me nuts.

    He's doing well though.

    Credit where it's due.

  • Rich||

    It's that Chinese TV you watch.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Chinese tires are bad.

  • Bam!||

    Obama: I prevented American's from getting inexpensive tires. Thank me, America!

  • Jerry on the road||

    Mr. President, do you allow China to buy oil from Iran?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    How dare those yellow devils sell us cheap stuff.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Oh God, protectionism truly is the disease of foolish policymakers and the succor of economic ignorants.

  • FD||

    Winner of the debate? George W. Bush. No shit. He's gonna fall off the wagon and play your drinking game. With glee. Watching this dance, he's thinking that history's jumping on his side -- about fifty years sooner than he predicted. It's karma for Dubya.
    He's got Obama shilling for his own foreign policy.
    And the despicable leftist retards will be cheering about it.

    Tribalism gone absolutely mad.
    Jesus H....

  • Bam!||

    History has been kind to presidents who've grossly expanded the executive branch. Based on the last four years, I think history will end up being kind to Bush.

  • ||

    Word. Obama keeps saying that Romney is like Bush, but he probably can't name one CURRENT policy that is different.
    The most he can say is he wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Other than that, there's no daylight between them.

  • db||

  • Ken Shultz||

    Government doesn't create jobs...

    Score one for Romney.

  • ||

    Except when Flopney claims he will. Which he has claimed multiple times before, Ken.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Can you imagine Obama saying that the government doesn't create jobs?

    If not, then score one for Romney.

  • Calidissident||

    Followed up by a protectionist screed about China

  • Ken Shultz||

    Still a step ahead of Obama.

    Hell, Obama wants to protect the government from competition from American companies.

  • Drake||

    Got the Chinese predictions backwards - Obama is calling them cheaters.

    I like how Obama circled it all back to us needed state-run schools to compete against their state-run companies.

  • free2booze||

    Romney agreeing with Obama?

    Not wanting to make headlines with the foreign policy debate, so that he can things can stay focused on the economy?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Romney seems to think China is just misunderstood.

  • Banjos||

    I think I watched this debate before.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney said quite possibly the dumbest thing about the trade imbalance I have heard from a major Presidential candidate since... the last time Obama spoke.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    ...and now it's time for Obama to say something profoundly ignorant about Chinese and US labor markets, currencies, and trade.

  • Ken Shultz||

    They stole our jobs!

  • Calidissident||

    Dey took er jerbs!

  • FD||

    I was waiting for some South Park here!

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I only started watching the Debate because I tuned in for Revolution and found that it was preempted.

  • Drake||

    Just read "Dies the Fire".

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Was Obama bragging about making tires more expensive?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I think it's safe to say that inflation will explode if Romney gets elected.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - If we don't double teacher's salaries all are cars will be made in China.

  • sloopyinca||

    If this is the best we can do, we're well and truly fucked as a nation. I mean that 100% with no hyperbole. We. Are. Fucked.

    The choices the two major parties have made in nominating these two imbeciles speaks volumes of our political class and the type of person that would aspire to higher office. I'm sure the only way we can succeed as a nation is if we expand the HoR by about 2000 more people and actually get local representation that is responsive to their constituents to offset the idiocy that is in the White House.

    Please, God, let us have a Constitutional crisis with a 269-269 tie and somehow end up with a split administration.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    More Congressional latitude when it comes to foreign policy would help enormously.

    As for the rest, we'd need a better class of voters and institutional reforms. The two are not unrelated.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Fortunately, we're not a dictatorship yet.

  • ||

    Seriously sloopy? Gee, why don't just change our system to a parliamentary one and just throw in the damn towel. Yes! Mob rule for everyone! Direct democracy is swell!

  • sloopyinca||

    At least if we went back to the representatives being from districts the size the Constitution established, you'd have a more accountable class of politician where people would have more access and opponents would be able to meet their potential constituents. As it stands now, the majority of districts don't allow voters much opportunity to impact their rep's decision-making.

    The founders had very little wrong compared to the way we're doing shit today. I'd be willing to bet they were closer to the mark when it comes to representative democracy that the dumb bastards running the show today.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    FWIW, Switzerland is a good deal more representative *and* more free than we are in very important ways.

  • ||

    This is true; however, The Founders did not anticipate the 17th amendment, which all but negated what The Founders had at that time.

    Thomas Jefferson also presciently predicted that, "Any electorate that figures out they can vote themselves money at the expense of their neighbors is doomed [paraphrased]"

    We're past that point, sloop, and more representatives would simply hasten the process.

  • ||

    Please, God, let us have a Constitutional crisis with a 269-269 tie and somehow end up with a split administration.

    My thoughts exactly. I've never understood the people who get all pissed off whenever there's a government "shutdown."

  • ||

    THEY TOOK R JERBS!!!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - I've depreciated our currency more than you!

  • Drake||

    But the Chinese are bad for doing it!

  • General Butt Naked||

    I am in no way, shape, or form watching this clusterfuck, but reading some comments I was reminded of something.

    I was thinking of how we keep sending our five million dollar techno warriors into Afghanistan to battle sheet wearing, cave dwelling troglodytes and they keep sending useless corpses back. We probably lose more money training elite soldiers to die than the gross gdp of the country we're sending them to.

    Anyhow, it reminded me of a famous passage by Kipling when the Brits were getting slaughtered in, you guessed it, Afghanistan by dirt farmers and their oddly-shaped rifles:

    A scrimmage in a border station
    A canter down some dark defile
    Two thousand pounds of education
    Drops to a ten rupee jezail

  • FD||

    Brilliant!

  • sloopyinca||

    Meh. Needs more buggery for a true British feel.

  • Fluffy||

    Dark defile is symbolism

  • sloopyinca||

    Oh. Does it mean buttpluggin'? Reading it again, I think it does.

  • Jerry on the road||

    Obama is exporting debt to China.

  • ||

    Jese Obama, give it up on the clean energy already.
    Let's just remind everyone of Solyndra going broke, and how I want to beat the Chinese at losing money on solar panels.

  • MWG||

    Obama: the value of the dollar has never been weaker.

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot, RomneyBot, RomneyBot, dude. You're not going to win on the auto-industry bankruptcy. It's complex and you don't know how to express it simply. Why bring it up?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney: I am *too* a crony capitalist!

  • Calidissident||

    Ken, you really want me to vote for Romney over the auto industry? I'm supposed to overlook everything else because he only would have given government guarantees instead of nationalizing? What a friend of limited government

  • Ken Shultz||

    Principled socialism is worse than crony capitalism by a long shot.

  • Calidissident||

    Except I don't have to vote for either

  • Ken Shultz||

    Again, I don't think we can make any progress on policy until Obama is out of office.

    You can use your support to influence other people, but policy won't get any better until Obama is out of office...

    And if Obama remains in office, our policy will get a lot worse.

  • Calidissident||

    ... which is why I voted for someone else to replace him

  • John||

    That you knew had no chance of winning.

  • Calidissident||

    ... and your point is? It's not like I could have swung the election regardless of who I voted for. People who base their vote on how close the election is know nothing about mathematics. And I live in California, so the same could be said for Romney. The bottom line is, I'm going to to try to be a part of the solution. It's not my fault if the majority of people don't go along with me

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    John, do you think there's a strong chance that Romney will be able to sign legislation repealing ObamaCare?

    If not, then what do you see a Mittens administration excelling at relative to the current administration (especially a gridlocked Obama administration)? I hate the incumbent and would love to toss him on his ass, and would gladly have done so if it had meant a President Daniels, Sanford, Fortuno, or even a Pawlenty. What in your view does Romney bring to the table for libertarians (and I mean that sincerely)?

  • Ken Shultz||

    I'm not saying anyone should vote for Romney because he bring a lot to the table for libertarians.

    I'm saying that people should consider voting for Romney becasue Obama is soooooo bad that we need to get rid of him.

    And if you think Obama has been bad the last four years, just wait until he doesn't have to worry about being reelected anymore.

    So, just to refresh... Romney's not great. Obama is awful.

    I prefer not great to awful.

  • John||

    John, do you think there's a strong chance that Romney will be able to sign legislation repealing ObamaCare?

    I think there is some chance. And that is better than obama where there is no chance.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It's not just that Romney might undo some of the damage that Obama has done; it's also that if we don't get rid of Obama, he's gonna do a lot more damage.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Solyndra!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama - My Auto bankruptcy was better than Romney's because I wasted 50 billion of your dollars.

  • ||

    Neither of them has read up on "sunken costs" lately, have they?

  • Rich||

    Obama: Anybody can check the record. Romney's record, I mean!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Obama just claimed with certainty that he knows a counterfactual is false.

    If he officially a god now?

  • Calidissident||

    What do you mean "now"?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    For fuck's sake.

    Marginal changes to how we do things with higher education and high school won't do a goddamn thing to influence our competition with China. The last thing that China's labor markets are, is highly educated.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Bullshit.

    All we gotta do is get our factory workers MAs in gender studies and they'll out compete those yellow devils in no time.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    You are largely correct- educated slobs here in the states cannot compete with infinitesimal numbers of people having no choice but to kowtow in strict labor regimes enjoyed and parlayed by the Chinese Communist intelligentsia and their buttfellows- the American corporation.

  • ||

    Someone's been smoking Obama's choom a bit too much.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    k

  • Gannicus||

    We are utterly fucked with these two. Jesus. I can't wait to vote for Gary Johnson.

  • Calidissident||

    I feel more and more proud by the minute about the ballot I sent in today

  • Generic Stranger||

    I've already marked my ballot for him. Just gotta drop that fucker off at the courthouse sometime soon.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    If Romney wasn't such a shitty candidate, that "whitewashing history" line would have been the perfect chance for him to rip into Obama about the past four years.

  • Calidissident||

    Anecdote time

  • ||

    Romney auto bailout op-ed :
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11......html?_r=0

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Looks like Mitt knew what he wrote;

    The federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.
  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Wrong.

    Pre-bankruptcy financing avoids liquidation.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    DIP financing happens after you file for bankruptcy protection in court.

    Dumbshit.

  • Killazontherun||

    Mike Riggs@MikeRiggs
    "This debate is the height of silliness," says a Mexican narco as he strings a decapitated head from a city bridge.

  • Killazontherun||

    I'm Romney and I'm hot for teachers!

  • Bam!||

    RomneyBot WAS doing well there, but then got scattered.

  • ||

    MOAR TEACHERS GODDAMMIT!

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Moar drones also, evidently... goddammit!

  • Calidissident||

    Has there ever been a debate where both candidates sounded so idiotic and ignorant? I mean, it's always bad, but I feel this one was exceptionally so

  • Ken Shultz||

    Obama wants more energy!

  • SIV||

    Jacob Sullum@jacobsullum
    I fucking HATE teachers. #debates

    I'm with Jake on this.

  • Killazontherun||

    Jacob, you took the words right out of my soul.

  • ||

    Now Obammy is for developing oil and natural gas?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    up 300%, jackass

  • ||

    In spite of administration policy, fucknozzle!

  • Calidissident||

    Go fuck yourself Shrike

  • Ken Shultz||

    Um...what about the pipeline?

  • Drake||

    Despite his best efforts.

  • ||

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOSH! Except Blowbama is GWB's third term. Funny that. JOB TRAINING!!!! TAX THE RICH!!!!

    I hate them both.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Obama wants to keep faith with the troops!

    How could I vote for anyone else?

  • Gannicus||

    I would pay a million dollars to see Ron Paul in this debate. He would destroy the both of them. And he could have repeatedly called out Obama as being completely the same as Bush.

  • Bam!||

    Anyone on the liberal websites? What have their posters been saying?

  • Bam!||

    You know what other Presidential candidate had to work with democrats? Booosh.

  • ||

    Challenging people to go look up Romney's Op-ed was a mistake. Romney doesn't actually say anything about not having government financing for a managed bankruptcy in it.
    It reads like Obama read his Op-Ed and used it as a prescription for what he actually did.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I have to be honest, following what that op-ed said would have been so much better than what actually happened (not perfect, but a vast improvement).

    I wasn't paying close enough attention to hear the details of that exchange (cleaning my tailgating grill), besides Obama butting in like a douche. What were they both claiming exactly?

  • ||

    Basically, Obama was saying that Romney opposed government financing for the managed bankruptcy.

    The op-ed doesn't actually say that though. he proposes government guarentees for private investors to put up money, but he doesn't actually say he's against government putting up the money for a managed mankruptcy. He says that he's against writing them a check.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Bob Scheiffer was a decent moderator. Not as good as Lehrner, but not bad.

  • Bam!||

    Bob Scheiffer was good because he kept himself out of it.

  • ||

    I was pleasantly surprised.

  • ||

    Agree. Just shut the fuck up and let the candidates talk.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    It's over? It's over!

  • SIV||

    Mitt stays on message. He knows this isn't a foreign policy election.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Rachel Maddow just creamed herself

  • ||

    *barf*

  • Ken Shultz||

    At least the first lady and princess Romney aren't wearing the same dress this time.

  • DK||

    Did they even get a question about Europe? Maybe something about the French request to drone Lance Armstrong.

  • Fluffy||

    Romney's prepared statements sound like they were written in crayon for President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho to read.

    Porn superstar and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion MITT ROMNEY, everybody!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Intrade Obama winner of debate 95% chance.

  • Skip||

    OMG Tagg is wailing on Obama! Lawrence O' Donnell is peeing himself!

  • ||

    Romney op-edThe federal government should provide guarantees for post-bankruptcy financing and assure car buyers that their warranties are not at risk.

  • FD||

    Doesnt matter what the,eal midgets at MSNBC say. In a three round bout, just avoid the knockout.
    Like some here, I didn't watch a sec of the thing, but appreciate the updates. Some classics. Thanks for those. : )
    Now Romney needs to play it like a diva, holding his head high and just getting out Dodge and back to the trail. Divas do that whether they nailed it or sucked. Let his shills (Fox) talk about how well he did, and ignore all the others who will ridicule him. If he didn't sound like a freak show he can do the "economy, stupid" thing and move on.
    And while still a long shot, it can sometimes be enough.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Chris Matthews is downright giddy.

  • Ken Shultz||

    He wouldn't say Obama had a bad performance at this point if Obama had picked his nose on camera and called Romney a honky.

  • Bam!||

    Nicolle Wallace on ABC just pointed out that Obama defended Bush's "Freedom Agenda" (her words).

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    But not the Bush Doctrine, Charly.

  • John||

    The Bush doctrine lives asswhipe. Why do you think we intervened in Libya? For Democracy, that is the Bush doctrine. Thanks to obama Bush has been completely vindicated and turned into a bi partisan President. Suck it dick head.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    You really are a hack, PB.

    Sincerely,
    All Libertarians

  • Calidissident||

    Is that different from the Obama Doctrine? Sorry if I haven't noticed any real changes in foreign policy the last four years

  • Ken Shultz||

    What, according to Shrike's Buttplug, is the "Bush Doctrine"?

  • Bam!||

    Something Sarah Palin doesn't know.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    But not the Bush Doctrine

    Really?

    And which parts of the Bush doctrine has Obama repudiated?

  • Fluffy||

    The part where you say it out loud

  • Auric Demonocles||

    No, it's the part where you pronounce Iran's weapons as "nucular".

  • Lisa||

    a youtube politics twitter post: "If you know nothing about history, science, religion or politics, Romney must seem quite convincing tonight. #youtubepolitics"

    history, science and religion?

  • Killazontherun||

    It's the left, they are all Al Gore now.

  • John||

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-G.....ma-s-Thugs

    Holy shit these people are fucking thugs. Should have had a gun.

  • Ken Shultz||

    They were probably union.

  • ||

    Look for the Union Seal (tm).

  • VG Zaytsev||

    After telling them to put the signs back, one of the thugs attacked Kedzie and then put him in a choke hold and continued to beat his head

    Wanna bet that it's some off duty cops?

  • Bam!||

    Jake Tapper on ABC is looking a little rough. Like he was shipped via USPS or something.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I just had an Obama supporter say "Give peace a chance."

    I shit you not.

  • Killazontherun||

    That's their famous mastery of science and history on display.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    If Ron Paul debated Obama on foreign policy the Obamunists would claim that RP was a fascist warmonger.

  • Gannicus||

    Ron Paul would have fucking destroyed both of them.

  • cavalier973||

    I second this.

  • Bam!||

    I'm bouncing between ABC and Fox News. What has MSNBC's reaction been?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Exuberance

  • FD||

    Hmm, odd that Maddow and Matthews are so thrilled. Fox is touting Romney's great performance.
    The circus is sometimes just too beautiful.

  • John||

    That means it is a draw, not a good result for Obama.

  • ||

    Needs moar bread.

  • Bam!||

    George Will tells nursery rhymes on ABC.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Neither Candidate mentioned the NHL lockout.

  • sloopyinca||

    What the fuck is a "NHL"?

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It's a hockey thing, which technically makes it foreign policy.

  • sloopyinca||

    Just out of curiosity, have any of you been watching the KHL games? If so, how's the quality of play?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I haven't been watching them. See highlights once in a while.
    Not enough to determine level of play. Probably close to AHL level.

  • sloopyinca||

    Why don't you watch a few games and let us all know how it looks. I'd be willing to bet in another 2 months, it'll look like NHL games out there...unless they play on those international football field-sized rinks. If so, I won't watch.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    The problem is games are on in the middle of the day.

  • sloopyinca||

    They don't have DVR's in the Great White North?

    Jesus.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    The KHL games aren't being televised! Yet.

  • ||

    They do play on the larger international ice surface.

    While there's skill there's little or no hitting. It doesn't resemble the NHL.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    That's a negative.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I have not. I save most of my hockey watching for after mid-Feb.

  • ||

    So, let me get this straight, TEAM BLUE hates BOOOOSH, but loves the policies, since The Right Man is in Charge?

    I cannot leave soon enough.

  • ||

    You're not exactly going to Libertopia, are you?

    Someday, you'll be able to practice medicine in a tax-free, orbiting facility assembled of Bigelow chambers called...Libertopia.

  • ||

    No, hardly. But I will be able to practice absent a lot of regulation and have much more freedom in that area. They are really hurting for physicians there. My main concern is tax and economic policy here, since that will follow me wherever I go, (Thanks FATCA!) Since UKR is not an EU nation, it does allow me some economic flexibility WRT their tax laws.

    I followed the debate tonight because it is true Putin's Russia is going a major player in the very near future, and I will be next door to them.

    Libertopia ain't happening in my lifetime.

  • Cytotoxic||

    The impression I'm getting is that Obama clearly won by default because Romney couldn't land a blow on his policy mirror image, but not that many watch or care about this debate so it doesn't really matter. Accurate or no?

    I remember last debate I said Romney had peaked and would lose, the he went up 7 in Gallup. I'd say what I said before if I hadn't said it already.

  • John||

    Obama is the one with the burden of proof. He has to show that Romney is not a credible alternative. So if Romney looked equal, Romney wins.

  • Cytotoxic||

    You keep treating the electorate like anything more than sub-simian retards. That is a mistake John.

    If Romney didn't win, he lost. If he lost, he's not equal. If he lost bad, or the voters think he did, they will go back to the 'cool blackman default' option as they were before debate #1. We'll see.

  • John||

    No they won't. And everyone said Romney "lost" the last debate and he went up in every poll. That is because it was two hours of noting but talking about the economy and Libya. Anytime they talk about reality and not how horrible Romney is supposed to be, Obama goes down in the polls. Same thing happened tonight. It was two hours showing the world how Obama's election didn't change a damn thing.

  • sloopyinca||

    The only way you could be saying this is if you had been watching the Giants demolish the Cardinals instead of the debate. When even Drudge shows a pic of Obama with the caption "Grand Finale" under it, you know he crushed Romneybot.

    I know it kills you to admit it, John, because you want Romney to win so badly, but his performance tonight was abysmal compared to Obama. And this is coming from someone that respects Romney as a person about 100x more than I do Obama. Really, he got hammered.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I think that Romney clearly lost but I don't think that it will hurt his chances to get elected.

    I essentially agree with John's point. The only way that Obama can get re elected with this economy is for his opponent to be a completely unacceptable alternative. Which Obama spent tons of money in the summer to do. But that narrative went out the window in the first debate. At this point, the only way that Obama wins is if Romney had some kind of melt down and became the unacceptable alternative again.

    Romney didn't so Obama did not win.

  • Robert||

    I still don't think any undecided voters are paying any att'n to Romney. It doesn't matter what Romney says, only what Obama says.

    Actually at this point I think there are practically no undecided voters anyway. Everybody's made up their minds and is just waiting -- in states that don't have early voting.

  • John||

    Calm down. You are starting to sound like Shreek. He didn't get hammered. They only way this debate would have meant anything is if Romney had said something memorably bad. He didn't. You may think he got hammered. Good for you. But it doesn't matter. All Romney had to do was look like someone who could be President.

  • Calidissident||

    John accusing other people of sounding like trolls, how priceless

  • sloopyinca||

    Now this is a fresh perspective.

    And by "fresh," I mean that it's so absurd not even Sean Hannity could have come up with it.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    I actually think the theory makes sense if you assume two things:

    1) Obama's presidency has been abysmal.

    2) Voters are not idiots, and realize that #1 means there needs to be a change.

    However, I don't think #2 is true.

  • John||

    Why would number 2 not be true? If you know the incumbent sucks and the challenger isn't a nut, why not give the challenger a chance? That is how people think and it is not irrational.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah? I suppose you've never looked at the re-election rate for Congress and the Senate, have you?

  • John||

    But people like their Congressman. They just hate every other Congressman.

    I am sorry man. It is not looking good for Obama. I didn't think you would take it this hard.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    It is a rational way to think. I just don't think people are rational.

  • John||

    Obama has no record to run on. His only hope is to convince the country Romney is not a feasible alternative. If it is a tie, Romney wins.

    Way to go full retard with the Hanity reference. But it needs more murder drones and warboner.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, I'm the one going full retard when you're saying tonight was a net win for Romney.

    And no, Obama's only hope is not to convince the country Romney is not a feasible alternative. His only hope is to continue playing identity politics and to fear-monger his way to cobbling a coalition of blacks, hispanics that are blind to his horrible record of deportations and women who are too stupid to realize he is not giving them anything they stand to lose if Romney is elected. That's his path to victory, and he'll be right back on it when he hits the stump in the morning.

  • John||

    Obama is down in every poll. That coalition isn't enough to win without historic turnout and doing as least decently well among independents. Neither of those things are going to happen.

    Try again, needs more Hannity.

  • sloopyinca||

    You act as if I want Obama to win. And yes, he's still winning in OH, PA, WI and IA. He holds on and he wins. I don't think he'll manage it, but it's gonna be a squeaker either way.

    I'm voting for the guy I support, so I'll be able to sleep afterward. That's more than I can say for the dumbasses that will vote for a lesser of two evils and perpetuate the fucked up two party system that is so poor these two idiots on stage tonight are the best we can come up with as viable alternatives to run the most powerful nation on earth.

  • John||

    At this point I doubt it will that close. Incumbents with this bad of a record just don't win. And frankly could not care less about what you tell yourself to sleep through the night.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but John has a point that winning this debate wasn't enough. Romney may have lost, but if he is still 'acceptable' and nobody cares then it's whatever.

    I guess we need to carefully define 'winning'. One can 'win' a debate and still not achieve what they need to achieve. John says this is Obama's situation.

    /putting words in John's mouth

  • John||

    That is exactly what I am saying Cytoxic. All of the Obama people are saying Obama won. All of the Romney people are saying Romney won. That tells me it is either a draw or close enough that Romney came across as credible. That is all he needed to do.

  • ||

    I think that's an accurate take. I didn't watch any of the debates, but listened to them on the radio.

    Blowbama is definitely a lock.

  • John||

    How is Obama a lock He is down in every poll?

  • Ken Shultz||

    His lead is disappearing in Ohio.

    I mean, all the momentum seems to be in Romney's favor.

    I think it's going to be close, but I'm not reading any headlines about Obama gaining in swing states. I'm seeing headlines about how Obama's lead is disappearing.

  • John||

    The swing states usually follow the national number pretty close. Obama is done in Florida, NC and Virginia. He is close to done in Colorado. That leaves Ohio as Obama's last hope.

  • Ken Shultz||

    You're right!

    Nobody's calling Virginia and North Carolina for Obama anymore.

    Hell, if Virginia is still anything like it was when I grew up there, Obama's comments about the size of the Navy tonight aren't about to play well in Norfolk and Newport News.

  • ||

    He's still got a better chance at the electoral college vote.

    Although he could be the biggest lame-duck president in history if he loses the popular vote by 5 points.

  • John||

    Very very unlikely that there will be a repeat of 2000.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    If there is, wait for the liberal cries of how the EC is a crucial facet of democracy.

  • T o n y||

    I'm hoping more for a bipartisan engagement in a national popular vote movement in that eventuality.

  • ||

    The EC is where he will win. I also think the term "lame duck" should be retired from the lexicon, since I am convinced without any restraint on the Tin-Plated Bush Klone, he will go balls to the wall.

    And he will most likely have a Dem senate and Speaker Boner and Bitch McConnell have already made noises that they will pretty much cave to him.

  • John||

    He is not going to win the electoral college and lose the popular vote. Did you proscribe yourself some very good drugs Groovus? Colorado, Florida, NC and North Carolina are all pretty much goners. If that happens, that means Obama would have to win pretty much every other swing state. That is not going to happen. He will lose Ohio or Pa or Wisconsin and that will be the end of him.

  • Cytotoxic||

    He will lose Ohio or Pa or Wisconsin

    Overconfidence.

  • John||

    Cyotoxic,

    If he wins those, he will win the popular vote. Maybe Obama makes a come back. I don't know. I doubt it but who knows.

    What I do know is that If he does, he will win the popular vote too. No way will this be a repeat of 2000.

  • Cytotoxic||

    "Bitch McConnell". Why can't I stop laughing? Am I really this immature?

  • ||

    No, just a side effect of the drinking game. -)))

  • Cytotoxic||

    Er...I didn't drink.

  • ||

    Oj! Well then, yes. But it's good to be young at heart. It's how I maintain my youthful appearance and svelte figure. -))

  • Banjos||

    It's a game? I thought everyone was drinking because we are doomed.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    We don't drink to feel better, we drink to feel nothing
    /Hawkeye

  • sloopyinca||

    It wasn't a chicken. It was a baby!!!!!!!!

  • Auric Demonocles||

    We drink because we, as men, can.

  • Ken Shultz||

    If Obama's gonna win, he has to appeal to women in Ohio.

    I'm not sure what we think of as a win is a win with them...

    I thought Romney's performance last time--the time before this--was pretty bad. ...but he did well with women in Ohio!

    I think they want to know that he's not a scary neocon. And if he convinced more women of that tonight, then it might be a win for him at the polls--even if his performance didn't really land a blow as far as we're concerned.

  • ||

    I dunno. They were both shadow-boxing eachother.

    I think, objectively speaking, they did equally well, but everyone is going to say Obama "won" because he did so shitty in the first debate that just being awake and paying attention makes it look like a victory.

  • Bam!||

    No, Obama won because Romney lost. Name a point Romney made in the debate.

  • ||

    Name a point Obama made that was different from the one Romney made.

  • Bam!||

    They do have the same policies but Obama made his points better. That DOES matter.

  • ||

    I couldn't tell who made their points better, honestly. They both made points. All of their points were vacuous.
    They both periodically acted agreessive and interrupted eachother, and then they both pretended to be polite for a while.
    They both spoke with conviction, as if they really believed all the bullshit that came out of their mouths, and they both said it confidently most of the time.

  • Cytotoxic||

    It's on the challenger to challenge.

  • John||

    Not if the incumbent is a failure it isn't. Then, it is on the challenger to just look credible.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    We shouldn't assume China is an adversary.

    What points did Obama make?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    No, Obama won because Romney lost. Name a point Romney made in the debate.

    Government doesn't create jobs.

    Obama's economy is the worst since the depression.

    Romney will get all of the troops out of Afghanistan by 2014.

    Romney will repeal Obamacare.

  • Bam!||

    Good point: Romney made economic points.

  • T o n y||

    Lie
    True, but not Obama's fault
    A newsworthy flipflop
    Primary-era red meat

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    *swings cat around by tail*

    "I'm the biggest idiot ever!"

  • Anonymous Coward||

    No, Obama won because Romney lost.

    Somebody get an axe! We have to cut Bam out of this circular argument before it's too late!

  • Bam!||

    Krauthammer says Romney won. Pffft.

  • FD||

    Haaaa!
    I just saw that.
    I love Charles for his marvelous spirit and intellectual energy within the confines of his physical debilitation, although I don't endorse his ultra-right hawkishness.
    Nevertheless, there must have been two debates on, and left and right tuned into different events.
    Cripe, you just can't make this stuff up!

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I guess we know who one of the neo-cons advising Romney is.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Bush Doctrine = Nation Building for Democracy with Military Force.

    We are no longer nation building, morons. We are just killing people.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Libya = Nation Building for Democracy with Military Force

    Or did you think that deposing Gaddhafi was meant to do anything but usher in regime change?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You don't know what nation building is.

    See Iraq 2003-2008.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I thought you were obsessed with the past for keeping a handle featuring a vice presidential candidate from four years ago an--I had no idea you were still stuck in the election of 2004.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Afghanistan = nation building for democracy with military force NOW WITH MORE NATION BUILDING

  • ||

    Really, and the Middle East is getting billions from us for what reason, exactly? (Egypt, I'm looking at you...)

    Other than what is essentially a protection racket, that is.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It's a relic of the Cold War.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    So who won this bitch?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Not the American People.
    So, China?

  • Ken Shultz||

    It was close.

    No huge mistakes on either side.

    Romney didn't come across as scary, and Obama didn't make a complete ass of himself.

    It was close.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    That seems to be NBC's wrap up.

  • ||

    You mean which of them did better at squeezing into the same box?

    It was like watching two kids fight over who is the more identical twin.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    The truest drone lord.

  • FD||

    I mentioned earlier. Dubya won it. He must be happy as a clam.
    Astonishing and sad to see the psychotically deranged rightists and leftists trying to split hairs over staying the course.
    Oh, and uhh, that course has been going on for a century now.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Neo-Cons

  • ||

    Identical. I am disappoint.

    G-night.

  • Bam!||

    Luntz' focus group on Fox News seems to care about nothing but the economy. Hmmm...

  • Bam!||

    Luntz' group calls the economy for Romney and foreign policy for Obama, and that the economy is the only thing that matter.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    John Kerry on MSNBC just called Romney the commander in chief and then accused him of flip flopping.

  • Cytotoxic||

    PRICELESS

  • SIV||

    Check out the plus-sized plastic surgery blonde in the Frank Luntz focus group!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Luntz carefully chooses his focus group GOP plants.

  • SIV||

    The BBW is representin' for the Donks., and Mary Kay.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm put off by the whole "BBW" designation. It's bullshit, as many of those fatty fucks are far from beautiful.

    Rarely do I condone bans, but I would support a ban of the "BBW" designation without a rating scale put in place to be administered by John and sarcasmic (equal time, bitches). Women have to be more responsible than this.

  • Banjos||

    I cut it off at a size 10. That is how big Marilyn Monroe was at her fattest.*

    *She actually was a size 14, but translates to a modern day size 10.

  • SIV||

    Marlyn was never bigger than a size 5.

    Tiny tiny tiny.

    Virginia Postrel has written quite a bit on the subject.

  • SIV||

    Virginia Postrel on Marilyn's dress size

    Link via my blog archive of course.

  • SIV||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I say Canada won, because it wasn't mentioned.
    /biggest trading partner yadda yadda

  • ||

    Canada hasn't been mentioned a whole lot since 2000.

    You take us for granted. We're sharpening our curling brooms and broom ball sticks.

  • ||

    Just wait until I unleash my Maritime Annihilation Project (sans PEI). That should keep you line. -))))

    I'm still on the fence about Quebec.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    We can keep Banff and Whistler, right?

  • ||

    That's a negative my Friendly Manitobian Liege.

    I am eliminating all of them, and throwing in all sorts of favourable goodies for the dependable, genial, hardy and under-appreciated Albertans.

    I am sparing PEI out of a request of a friend who is both Canadian and has a fondness for Anne of Greene Gables.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    PEI? Potatoes and red haired Anne

  • Bam!||

    Sarah Palin has some serious lip gloss on Fox News.

  • FD||

    Just when you think news channel credibility couldn't sink any lower than MSNBC, Fox trots out the glamour-girl wannabe.

  • ||

    CNN calls it 48% Obama, 40% Romney. Which means no effect whatsoever on the race.

  • ||

    That Think Progress guy is such an apologist.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    The rightwing half of my twitter feed is trying to make Horses and Bayonets stick.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Why? That was without a doubt one of Obama's best lines of the night.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Exactly, I don't know what points are in their favour.

  • T o n y||

    Pundits were predicting it and Romney delivered it: Romney would have lots of agreement with Obama on foreign policy. My question to both is why?

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Romney because Obama's record largely aligns with his party's preferences.

    Obama because of inertia and a low priority placed on foreign policy, beyond super-star diplomacy (which has done very little one way or another).

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Al Gore ‏@algore
    Where is global warming in this #debate? Climate change is an urgent foreign policy issue. http://bit.ly/PpLrD1 #Current2012 #lynndebate
  • ||

    *barf*

  • Lisa||

    "I'm super cereal! And nobody'll listen to me. I'm cereal!"

  • Calidissident||

    Wait, that was actually Al Gore's twitter? Cause that totally seems like something a parody account would tweet to set up comments like that. You cereally can't make this shit up!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Michael Moore's account is almost a parody of itself now too.

  • circadia||

    Excelsior!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    GOLD!

    pourmecoffee ‏@pourmecoffee
    You kids have no idea how easy you have it. When I was your age, we had to wait until the next day sometimes longer to confirm our biases.
  • tagtann||

    Sometimes dude you jsut have to roll with it.

    www.Privacy-Wonders.tk

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