A.M. Links: Romney Campaign Calls Out Lack of Transparency in Obama Administration, Tampa Cops Prepare For RNC With New Bicycles, ATVs and an Armored Truck, 52 Percent of Prostitutes in U.S. Claim They’ve Been Assaulted by Police

  • The Romney campaign is hitting back against attacks over releasing tax returns by pointing out the Obama administration’s transparency problems. "President Obama has run one of the least transparent administrations in American history," said campaign spokeswoman Andrea Saul. "Whether hiding lobbyists in coffee shops, cutting back-room deals on ObamaCare, or concealing the records of Fast and Furious, President Obama's pledge to be transparent has turned out to be just another broken promise." Judicial Watch, meanwhile, is suing the White House for visitor logs from the first nine months of Obama’s presidency.
  • 103 people were killed in a suicide bombing in Iraq yesterday, the deadliest day there this yeear.
  • James Holmes, the alleged Aurora shooter, apparently raised red flags when he applied to a private gun range. Inmates at the prison he's being held in can't wait to get their hands on him. As for the film, The Dark Knight Rises earned about $165 million on its opening weekend, short of the $190 million expected by the industry, but still well in blockbuster territory.
  • The city of Fullerton, California won’t say whether the now former cop charged with the beating death of Kelly Thomas was fired or resigned; his employment “ended” last week. The other officer charged “left the city’s employment” July 3.  Three other cops who participated in the beating remain uncharged and on paid leave; a fourth left the city’s employment last week. The city is not talking about the results of an internal investigation.
  • Police in Tampa have spent about $13 million on new wares for August’s Republican National Convention, including bicycles, all terrain vehicles and an armored truck.
  • Belarus is still a totalitarian shithole.
  • A survey of prostitutes in six nations found 85 percent in Zimbabwe claiming they’ve been physically or sexually abused by law enforcement, 80 percent in Russia and South Africa, 52 percent in the United States and 50 percent in Namibia and Kenya.
  • This squirrel’s a JPEG and an HTML file.

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  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Squirrel!

  • robc||

    The squirrel thing is an old programming challenge:

    Write a program that outputs itself.

  • ||

    Sure, but HTML isn't a programming language. TULPICAL.

  • T||

    Yeah, but all the fucking scripts this page has in the background are written in some language. SQUIRREL#, perhaps?

  • ||

    Sorry. I already TULPAD you. I won.

  • robc||

    You TULPAD me. So in tulpa turns, that doesnt count against T.

    I just TULPAD you back, bitch.

  • ||

    When things get TULPICAL, everyone suffers.

  • SugarFree||

    "I want to use you like a TULPON."

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Earnings Show Recession May Be 'Fast Approaching'
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/48259674

  • John||

    Recovery Summer!!

  • Rich||

    But ... wait for it ... not as fast as expected!

  • Mike M.||

    It's all those Teabaggers' fault, because $1.5 trillion yearly deficits aren't nearly big enough to stimulate economic growth.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    The Krugabe is strong with this one.

  • JW||

    He has elevated levels of ezrakleins in his blood.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Stimulus me, like you did by the lake on Naboo.

  • ||

    Um...

    Europe is collapsing
    China drastically slowing
    No responsible energy policy
    $16T debt
    $60T in unfunded liabilities
    A war on business
    Unprecedented regulatory environment
    Banks unable to lend (see above)

    ...future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!

  • R C Dean||

    [Checks ammo prices at Cheaper Than Dirt. Places order.]

  • ||

    Better do it soon before mail order and internet ammo sales are banned.

    That's the "compromise" I anticipate after the Colorado shootings.

  • Tulpa the White||

    NRA would go apeshit, I don't think so.

    This is one of those times where it's good to have a big tent gun rights org, not a bunch of purist half-percenters like GOA and SAF.

  • Tejicano||

    I guess you kids don't remember when we used to have to fill out a 4473 at a FFL's storefront to purchase ammo.

  • Tulpa the White||

    The only numbers that matter to BO are 49%-46%.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Judicial Watch, meanwhile, is suing the White House for visitor logs from the first nine months of the Obama’s presidency.

    But that's when they were most transparent!

  • Rich||

    Just wait. All the entries will be "Mr. and Mrs. John Smith".

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I imagine it will actually be bundlers/future ambassadors and journalists/future spokespersons and lobbyists/future lobbyists.

  • ||

    They'll all be redacted...the entire page will just be black.

  • sarcasmic||

    That's not a squirrel, it's a fucking chipmunk!

  • Trespassers W||

    Chipmunks are squirrels.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipmunk

    You've just been FACT PWNED.

  • sarcasmic||

    Anyway, time for the Daily Fails!

    Avril frolicks on the beach!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....taway.html

  • sarcasmic||

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Isn't it about time that Daredevil got a reboot?
    With less Garner and less Affleck.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Also: I had no idea that those two are married!

  • sarcasmic||

    With children even!

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Well, props to them for being a quiet couple.

  • Nephilium||

    They're working on it... from what I remember, if there isn't a Daredevil movie in production by the end of the year, the rights revert back to Marvel. Same kind of a deal as Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four, which is why there was the Amazing Spider-Man movie this year.

  • sarcasmic||

    Nice trailer park you've got there. Be a shame if something happened to it. Like a change in zoning laws.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....niums.html

  • ||

    Ummm, it's the owner who is applying for the zoning change so that he can put HIS property to a more profitable use than renting out trailer pads.

    The city is not the bad guy here, except to the extent that it has zoning laws in the first place.

    But absent those zoning laws, the park's tenants would have been packed up and moved out long ago.

  • sarcasmic||

    Jessica Biel still has a nice ass!
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....rlake.html

  • John||

    http://thehill.com/polls/23937.....ad-economy

    Majority of voters now blame Obama for the economy. I guess "it wasn't my fault" isn't quite as effective of a campaign slogan as "Hope and Change".

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    same link -

    Similarly, 53 percent of centrists said Obama has taken the right actions as president to boost the economy, compared with 38 percent who said he had taken the wrong steps.

    Seventy-nine percent of centrist voters said Republicans had slowed the economy by taking wrong actions. Only 13 percent of centrists credited GOP lawmakers with policies that have helped the economy.

  • John||

    It found that 66 percent believe paltry job growth and slow economic recovery is the result of bad policy. Thirty-four percent say Obama is the most to blame, followed by 23 percent who say Congress is the culprit. Twenty percent point the finger at Wall Street, and 18 percent cite former President George W. Bush.

    And this is before most of the public notices that we are going into another recession.

    Forget it Skreek. You and your ilk own this economy. Thanks to Obama and Pelosi, you are going to end up completely out of power just four years after owning the entire government. You might want to start doing some self reflection rather than whistling past the graveyard.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Uh, John, if you add the blamers of the GOP in Congress and Bushhitler you get more than those who blame Obama.

    To me, this shows more than anything else the rank stupidity of "centrists". Four years after he left office they're blaming Bush for policy?

  • wareagle||

    this is an apt demonstration of how statistics can be manipulated to produce any outcome one wants, even when the same set of numbers is involved.

    53% of centrists see right actions while 66% presumably overall say the opposite. Anyway, do you really need a public opinion poll to notice that unemployment has not improved under Obama, that there is no undercurrent of optimism, and that polls meaningless?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    re: 66%.

    Lots of Democrats don't like what they perceive as Obama's center right policy.

    No single-payer, extending the Bush tax cuts, Simpson-Bowles, etc.

    Ironically, I like that about him - and him fixing the banks early on with SCAP which led to record market gains for any president.

    If the economy has worsened so much why is the market up 80% under Obama?

  • wareagle||

    because the market is about making money and a number of companies are still doing that. You heard about profits right? Profits can be achieved by cutting payroll and other expenses just as readily as through new business. The market is over-rated as a barometer of what is going on. It peaked during the Bush years, too, but you apparently forgot taht.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yeah, it peaked during the height of the Credit Bubble.

    Credit is truly fake "fiat" money that the far right hates so much. Trillions were snuffed out in six months.

  • Kwanzaa Cake||

    You are counting from the March 2009 lows, Shrike. The market would have climbed substantially from those lows no matter what as the panic ended. In any event, of course the market has been on a stimulus-induced sugar high. The fact that it is now wearing off a breackneck speed is even more evidence that the stimulus was a policy disaster.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    If the economy has worsened so much why is the market up 80% under Obama?

    If the economy has gotten better why are labor participation rates stuck at 30-year lows, you moron?

  • Restoras||

    There also isn't any place else to put money except securities. Funny how that worked out.

  • Tulpa the White||

    and him fixing the banks early on with SCAP which led to record market gains for any president.

    And massively record gold and silver price gains, too. Which would seem to indicate what now?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    James Holmes, the alleged Aurora shooter, apparently raised red flags when he applied to a private gun range.

    Get ready for legislation requiring private gun range operators to report suspicious voice mail messages.

  • Zeb||

    The worst thing about shootings like this (well, after the people who got killed or injured, obviously) is that people always try to pretend that something new is to be learned from it. There isn't. Everyone already knew that something like this was perfectly possible. If people are to be at all free, one has to accept that a few crazy people will be able to plot horrible things without anyone noticing. The alternative is huge invasions into everyone's rights and privacy.

  • $park¥||

    My right to be safe is more important than your right to be free.

    /proggie asshole

  • sarcasmic||

    Why stop at gun ranges?

    Make it a crime to think someone is a bit odd and not report it.

    That way when something like this happens in the future, everyone who thought the perp was a bit odd and didn't report it can be blamed and put into prison.

    It won't solve anything, but it will make people feel better.

  • some guy||

    Then no one will ever admit to thinking anyone was odd. It will be a geeky introvert's dreams come true.

  • sarcasmic||

    You won't be required to make a report if you don't know the person directly.
    This means that, say, you know someone who knew the perp. You don't like this person. You can now go to the authorities and report the person you don't like as saying to you that the perp was odd, and they go to prison.

    A snitch-state.

    A progressive's dream.

  • ||

    the neo-con dream as well based on the book plugging going on at NRO's Corner this weekend

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    IF YOU SEE SOMEONE SEEING SOMETHING AND NOT SAYING SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING, OR ELSE

  • ||

    I see your not saying something about saying something, and I am saying something about your not saying something about saying something.

  • ||

    Who knew that shitastic final episode of Seinfeld would come back to haunt us in real life??

  • some guy||

    Maybe that's why the episode sucked so much. The writers could see this day coming and they wanted us to realize that it wasn't a joke.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Mr Clinton criticized Greece's lenders for focusing excessively on austerity, saying Athens will be more likely to repay its debt if its manages economic recovery first."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin.....maras.html

  • Rich||

    "That also struck me as very, very strange," Rotkovich said. "Who says 'Cheers?'"

    Verily. Most people say "Bugger off".

  • Brett L||

    Probably suspected him of being Canadian.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Gordon Crovitz: Who Really Invented the Internet?
    Contrary to legend, it wasn't the federal government, and the Internet had nothing to do with maintaining communications during a war.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....on_LEADTop

    According to a book about Xerox PARC, "Dealers of Lightning" (by Michael Hiltzik), its top researchers realized they couldn't wait for the government to connect different networks, so would have to do it themselves. "We have a more immediate problem than they do," Robert Metcalfe told his colleague John Shoch in 1973. "We have more networks than they do." Mr. Shoch later recalled that ARPA staffers "were working under government funding and university contracts. They had contract administrators . . . and all that slow, lugubrious behavior to contend with."

    So having created the Internet, why didn't Xerox become the biggest company in the world? The answer explains the disconnect between a government-led view of business and how innovation actually happens.
  • John||

    A survey of prostitutes in six nations found 85 percent in Zimbabwe claiming they’ve been physically or sexually abused by law enforcement, 80 percent in Russia and South Africa, 52 percent in the United States and 50 percent in Namibia and Kenya.

    But if it were legal the husbands of ugly, prudish women would have an alternative. They are just going to have to continue to be molested by law enforcement. Otherwise Kathryn Jean Lopez might have to mix in a salad or put out for her husband once in a while. And we can't have that.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    *Googles Kathryn Jean Lopez*

    Mother of God....

  • John||

    She writes for NRO. Every year or so the adult supervision over there takes a break and she goes on a "we must stop porn and hookers" bender. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

  • Tulpa the White||

    But if it were legal the husbands of ugly, prudish women would have an alternative.

    I'm somewhat sympathetic to this POV, but in the age of Fleshlights and ubiquitous net porn, why the fuck would you go to a maggoty prostitute just to get off. Guys who are still going to prostitutes at this point have got to have some issues beyond needing sexual relief.

  • John||

    If you think porn is in any way equivalent to actual sex Tulpa, I really feel sorry for you.

  • Tulpa the White||

    It isn't, but it's a much safer way to get off if that's all you need. And given what I've heard about the average cheap hooker, probably more pleasurable.

    If you're Eliot Spitzer and can afford 5K a night, that's a different story.

  • ||

    There's a lot of wiggle room between all night and an hour or two. Even high-class escorts do hourly. Read up on your Maggie McNeill and you'll see not all her clients were jillionaires like Spitzer.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Fuck.

    Just go to a Nevada brothel. They ain't what anyone would call cheap, yet are frequented by truck drivers and the like.

  • Robert S||

    Your use of "frequented" forces me to side with Tulpa. Gag.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Germany’s Vice Chancellor Roesler Says ‘Very Skeptical’ Greece Can Be Rescued
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....scued.html

    German Vice Chancellor Philipp Roesler said he’s “very skeptical” that European leaders will be able to rescue Greece and the prospect of the country’s exit from the euro had “lost its terror.”

    Roesler, who is Germany’s economy minister, told broadcaster ARD that Greece was unlikely to be able to meet its obligations under a euro-area bailout program as its international creditors hold talks this week in Athens. Should that be the case, the country won’t receive more bailout payments, Roesler said.
  • Restoras||

    Germany's Vice Chancellor is the current holder of the title 'Captain Obvious'.

  • T||

    Yeah, but he's one of only about 6 government guys in the Eurozone willing to take the job. So props for that. Everybody else is still burying their head in the Adriatic sand.

  • BakedPenguin||

    He should be, but sadly the collapse of Greece will come as unexpectedly to idiots in Europe as our coming recession will be unexpected by our own domestic idiots.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Off "topic": I saw both The Adjustment Bureau and The Dark Knight Rises over the weekend.

    The Adjustment Bureau was one of the worst movies I've seen in a long time, and The Dark Knight Rises was okay I guess.

  • Bardas Phocas||

    I saw 'Beasts of the Souther Wilds' and really liked it. Not as artsy-filmy has I expected.

  • ||

    I didn't even make it through half of The Adjustment Bureau. Poor Phillip K. Dick.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    MATT DAMON!

  • Bee Tagger||

    Anyone have an opinion on what the most enjoyable movie based on PKD? Not necessarily the most faithful to the story or theme or message, but simply most enjoyable. I happen to really like The Truman Show but that might be cheating since it's not explicitly PKD though it may as well be.

  • Brett L||

    Bladerunner

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Yup. That's an easy one.

    Total Recall is right behind it, for just plain cheesy fun.

  • ||

    Why did they feel the need to remake it? WHYYYYYYY?

    Oh, wait. That's cool then.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Are those real?

  • ||

    I'd need three hands to be able to tell for sure.

  • Brett L||

    Is your mouth not sensitive enough?

  • Ska||

    As persuasive as three titted hotties can be, they still don't need to remake it. We just need new features with three titties.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    My money is on Minority Report.

    I didn't like Through a Scanner, Darkly very much.

  • $park¥||

    I liked Minority Report enough that even Tom Cruise couldn't bring it down.

  • SugarFree||

    Minority Report, like A.I., could have been salvaged it someone had lopped off the last fifteen minutes or so.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    It comes from a more innocent time, when Tom Cruise didn't seem quite as creepy and I could think "Who is this Colin Farrell guy? He's pretty good!"

  • Bee Tagger||

    I was excited to see Scanner Darkly since I loved the book, but as I was watching it I thought "why did I think this would make a good movie?"

  • Lord Humungus||

    A Scanner Darkly is a dark, depressing book. Still one of my favorites but not the type of book I can read every year.

  • SugarFree||

    I didn't think it was terrible. They fucked up the ending, of course, but you are never going to make that bleak of an ending to a mass-marketing movie.

  • ||

    Blade Runner, obviously.

  • Pro Libertate||

    You're right--it's two words. Must've been feeling German when I was typing.

  • ||

    Sie machte einen Rechtschreibfehler!

  • Pro Libertate||

    Genau!

  • Brett L||

    Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep if we really want to be pedantic.

  • Pro Libertate||

    The question was which movie. Turn in your pedant pendant, please.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Bladerunner, of course.

  • Nephilium||

    A Scanner Darkly, with Blade Runner and Total Recall coming up close.

  • Gray Ghost||

    I'm really surprised that no one's made a movie of "The Man in the High Castle" yet. Seems like it would've fit in with the Nazi movies of the last 10 years, like Inglorious Basterds and Valkyrie.

    The best PKD movies are the ones that are nothing like the books; see, Blade Runner and Minority Report.

  • Coeus||

    Minority report was almost exactly like the PKD story. they just decided to change the ending so it didn't make any fucking sense.

  • Srynerson||

    I recall seeing reporting in the last few months that the BBC has acquired the rights to "The Man in the High Castle" and will be producing a mini-series based on it. (Which struck me as odd given that no part of the story takes place in the UK, IIRC.)

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    You are smarter with your time than I am.

    I swear, the whole movie was made so that Matt Damon could have the satisfaction of playing the Liberal Platonic Ideal of a politician.

  • ||

    And that had already been done by Martin Sheen.

  • Matrix||

    I would almost believe you were my roommate based off of this. We watched DKR and The Adjustment Bureau this weekend. Although his opinion of the latter was not "one of the worst movies" he's seen in a long time.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Well, unless you're either my wife or one of my kids... :)

    Also: my condolences on, apparently, rooming with a flaming liberal.

  • Matrix||

    Well, he is married and has 1 baby. Flaming liberal? Well, perhaps. He claims to be a Republican, but he has very liberal leanings on some issues I've called him out on.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Ari Fleischer: The Latest News on Tax Fairness
    A new Congressional Budget Office reports shows the share of taxes paid by the top 20% has gone up over the last 30 years, while the share of taxes paid by everyone else has gone down.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....on_LEADTop

    You wouldn't know this from President Obama's rhetoric, but our tax system, according to a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), is incredibly progressive. Consider: The top 1% of income earners pay an average federal tax rate of 28.9%. (See the nearby table.) The average federal tax rate on the top 20% is 23.2%. The 20% of taxpayers earning between $50,100 and $73,999 pay an average 15.1%, and so on down the line. The CBO report includes payroll as well as income taxes paid.

    There's also another way of looking at fairness, and that's the tax burden. Here, consider the top 20% of income earners (over $74,000). They make 50% of the nation's income but pay nearly 70% of all federal taxes.
  • wareagle||

    You wouldn't know this from President Obama's rhetoric

    or by the media's reporting on it. The allegedly skeptical press, presented as ever-ready to call bullshit on power, is always struck mute when some pol babbles "tax cuts for the rich." It's not a difficult talking point to refute, but it has gone unchallenged by the day to day media covering the folks who spout it.

  • robc||

    Looking at the raw data, the big change for lowest 20% was between 2007 and 2008, under Bush.

    They dropped from paying 5.1% in 2007 to 1.5% in 2008. Looking at breakdown, they were paying 8.7% in SS in 2007 and 8.6% in 2008 (marginal change in non-SS income), but the big change was in income tax, going from -5.8% to -9.1%!

    Was there a big change in EITC that went into effect in 2008? Was this some part of getting Bush tax cuts extended or something? I dont remember this, so maybe someone knows what the change was.

    Also, excise taxes are highly regressive:
    Bottom 20% 1.5%
    2nd quintile 0.9%
    Middle 0.8%
    4th quintile 0.6%
    Top 20% 0.4%
    Top 1% 0.2%

  • Rasilio||

    The child tax credit which is refundable for most people went from $600 per child to $1000 per child as part of the Bush tax cuts (in 2001).

  • Tulpa the White||

    Were you alive in 2008, robc? Remember what was going on with the economy then?

    The tax brackets are based on absolute income levels, not relative ones. Shitloads of people at the bottom were losing their jobs and falling into the lower brackets.

  • CampingInYourPark||

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yeah. "Less fascist" than the GOP. Good shilling there. Any freshman Poly Sci student knows that.

  • John||

    Don't use words unless you know the meaning you demonic little weasel.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    In the real world you GOPers don't live in "fascism" combines Gawd, war, flag-waving nationalism, Fox News like propaganda, corporatism, and racism/sexism. It literally means a "bundle of sticks" representing those attributes.

    And the GOP wins on all those counts.

  • wareagle||

    let's look at your real world:
    --nationalism: occasional flag-waving but an uptick in all the anti-terror activity that gave the right a hard-on
    --propaganda: all the outlets NOT named Fox that parrot "tax cuts for the rich," shill for Obamacare, etc etc
    --corporatism: and teh clubhouse leader in Wall St PAC money remains....the incumbent. Plus all that Solyndra and similar company money.
    --racism/sexism: where the left shines, giving anyone who wonders what "projection" means a living definition of the term.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You are echoing Chavez and his leftist view by arguing which US party is more fascist.

    One things conservatives are dead right on - we ARE a center right nation.

    Dems are center and the GOP is far right.

  • John||

    Part of being insane Shreek is thinking you are sane. You just perfectly described the Democratic Party. You people only think the Republicans are violent fascist because you know you actually are.

  • Restoras||

    That. That right there. That is what you call weapons grade stupid.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    You have no rebuttal so just STFU.

  • sarcasmic||

    You have no rebuttal so just STFU.

    A rebuttal requires substance to rebut.

  • Restoras||

    Yeah, ok, Internet Tuff Gi. I'll do just that.

  • Lord Humungus||

    shocking.

  • ||

    Try looking up the definition of fascism Turdpolisher.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Weird, I would peg Chavez as essentially a fascist, so wouldn't less fascist be a bad thing in his eyes? Oh wait, fascists can't call themselves that anymore.

  • CampingInYourPark||

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "...but rather Romney, because it's the extreme right-wing agenda that borders on the fascism of the United States," Chavez told tens of thousands of supporters in the western city of Maracaibo.

  • Lord Humungus||

    will we get natty uniforms? Something in grey with some sort of armband? Just wonderin'

  • T||

    I'm hoping for the black with silver trim. I like skulls, too, so if we can work that in it'd be a bonus.

  • sloopyinca||

    You Raiders fans make me want to vomit.

  • Gray Ghost||

    Well, Hitler had Hugo Boss doing his uniform design work. And we've got who? Ralph Lauren? Tommy Hilfiger? It'd probably look like the fascist yacht party that the 2012 Olympic uniforms are. All I ask is that the jackets have side vents.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Romney is extreme right? Really? Derp.

  • Restoras||

    When you're views are that far left, anything to your right seems that way.

    This was why the communists used to call their fellow travellers in socialism, fascists, right-wing.

  • John||

    Penn State going to get hammered in a moment. A friend of mine reminded me of something last night. Back in the 1980s when SMU was getting the death penalty and Oklahoma and Oklahoma State both got near death penalties for the crime of buying a few players some nice cars, one of the biggest proponents of the "lack of institutional control" punishment and the need to come down especially hard on the Oklahoma Schools and SMU was none other than Joe Paterno. All the while he was letting a monster use his program as a honey pot for victims. I hope they never have another winning season again.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'm guessing a 5 year bowl and TV ban and number of scholarships cut in half.

  • John||

    I bet it is a three year bowl ban and the loss of some scholarships. It will be less than what OSU got for buying Hart Lee Dykes a Mercedes Benz. Pathetic.

  • Restoras||

    I don't understand how it could not get anything but the death penalty, and for several years as well.

  • John||

    The NCAA is about as competant as the Obama administration. They should have either done nothing and said they only deal with violations that give programs an unfair competitive advantage or given them the death penalty. If you say you have jurisdiction, how can this not be worse than anything done by SMU?

  • Restoras||

    That's what I don't get. This is immeasurably worse than what SMU did. A coach is raping children, for years, and the head of the program and the administration covers it up to protect the football program - that's the same as buying a player a car? So, the innocence of the most vulnerable in our society is worth the same as a fucking car? Disgusting. I hope the football program collapses. What parent in their right mind would send their son to play football at Penn State?

  • wareagle||

    it can't be the death penalty. SMU got it because the school did even more stupid things while on probation, not for first offenses. What pisses me off about this kind of stuff is it's always the kids who had nothing to do with the crime who are screwed. That, and how presidents and ADs usually walk away unscathed.

  • John||

    The kids can transfer. It is a four year ban. Penn State needs this. They need about 20 years of horrible football so maybe they can find something else to do like run a university. And everything Paterno built deserves to be destroyed. It was built on a horrible crime.

  • wareagle||

    I'm not defending Paterno, just saying this punishes people who had nothing to do with the crime. It is typical NCAA.

  • AuH2O||

    Yeah, this. The players will be screwed for the actions of a few administrators and coaches. And what's worse is that, technically, Penn State didn't violate any real NCAA rule.

    They sure as hell deserve legal punishment and stigma, but those involved are being pursued. Why should everyone have to take the fall?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Excise every administration and staff member who had any part of this, but don't punish the students. It's fundamentally unfair.

  • AuH2O||

    Also, let me say this: Giving them the option to transfer is a bit inadequate. There is no guarantee they will get the same kind of scholarships/scout attention/playing time at the schools they transfer to, factors that probably played into them choosing Penn State.

    "Don't worry son, Akron State will be happy to give you a partial scholarship as a backup QB!"

  • Tejicano||

    Make Penn State pay the school and housing costs for the kids after they transfer to other schools. Sell off all the gear, buildings, and property related to football at Penn State to pay for it. Also take it out of the salaries of those who were involved - retroactively if possible.

    Those people enabled and empowered a predatory serial child rapist for decades - nothing short of bloodletting is too much.

  • Ted S.||

    Because it shows how virtuous people are with their moral outrage.

  • Metazoan||

    But that's like saying that it's not fair to punish corporations for malfeasance (like fraud) since most of the employees had nothing to do with it, so why should they be screwed?

  • AuH2O||

    Metazoan- Fair point, but let me give you a comparison.

    Company X's former CEO cut corners on product safety and so on. He leaves and goes to a new company. An investigation is launched, and finds the company negligent, and they get fined.

    Maybe a few top people who were in on it fall on their swords, but a lot of the senior people have jumped ship and are now working for new companies. Instead, it's the poor saps in the mail room, who the company can most afford to lose, who get the shaft.

    While perfectly legal, I can at least get a little morally indignant about it. These kind of penalties fuck over the guy in the mail room while leaving the CEO untouched.

  • Metazoan||

    I do see your point, AuH2O, but are you arguing that corporations should not be penalized? Or are you just saying that the consequence sucks for a lot of people, and not enough for some? If the latter, I can agree with you, but that applies to other situations too. As John pointed out, when someone is sent to prison, his family suffers- sometimes more than he does. And that really sucks, but what can we do about it?

  • AuH2O||

    My point is the latter, and I guess nothing, but I guess what we could do is be a little more temperate in our reaction.

    Such as, "Yeah, they had to have it done, but I feel bad for the students who have to uproot their lives and transfer because of this." That kind of thing.

    Compassion, I guess, is a virtue that should be practiced in a lot more situations.

  • Metazoan||

    I suppose. Having considered attending PSU, but deciding not to for a combination of tuition (and I was an in-state student!) and the virtual titles of nobility held by the football team, I suppose my judgment is a tad clouded. Surely the players did not create this system, nor did they participate in these heinous crimes. So it sucks for them, sure.

  • Ted S.||

    It took a murder before the Baylor basketball scandal was cleaned up, and they didn't get the death penalty.

  • Tulpa the White||

    This had nothing to do with the integrity of the football program per se, John. It's bullshit that the NCAA is even getting involved. It's a criminal matter for the police and the justice system to handle.

  • Ptah-Hotep||

    They should get the death penalty. If that is the penalty for buying a player a car, then it most certainly should be for something this grievous.

  • wareagle||

    the death penalty is not about buying a car. SMU had been put on probation for recruiting violations and kept on violating while on probation. This is worse in the sense that crimes against children are exponentially worse than toys for players, but if the NCAA wants to be taken seriously, it should push for jail time for the former president, VP, and AD, all of whom were just as complicit as Paterno in the cover up.

    And goes to show you - no statues or memorials to people until AFTER they are dead.

  • Tulpa the White||

    But unlike buying shit for supposedly amateur players, this has absolutely nothing to do with the integrity of the football program itself. The conduct of coaches off the field and not dealing with players is none of the NCAA's business.

  • Metazoan||

    If it is none of the NCAA's business, why did the parties to the NCAA agree to abide by its rulings?

  • Brett L||

    My wet dream is they vacate all wins from the day JoePa knew onwards plus some sort of bowl/scholarship ban. But that would get the head coaches' attention.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    No doubt. The head coaches might be willing to roll the dice on prison and bankruptcy but no way they'd risk their coaching record.

  • NoVAHockey||

    looks like you got your wish

  • Metazoan||

    Yes this is really fantastic. Though honestly, "winningest coach" is a stupid title.

  • Mike M.||

    And the ongoing reactions that I hear from so many people in the Penn State community and their apologist fan base continue to fill me with disgust and contempt.

    The fact that so many people seem to have ranked the importance of football above everything else in life showed just how totally screwed up our priorities have become in this society.

  • John||

    If I were an alum, I would want the football program killed at least for a few years. As long as it continues to play, it will forever be associated with the crimes of the Paterno regime. If you killed it and started from scratch, you could escape that.

  • wareagle||

    killing the football program because of Paterno reeks of banning guns because of the CO shooter. You punish kids who had zero to do with anything that went on and to what end? There are court cases still pending. Sandusky is in prison. I'd say a few others deserve similar fates.

  • AuH2O||

    I also gotta take issue with this- why do we only do this with sports?

    If it came out that a university's psych department had a few admins in it who were performing illegal human experiments and covering it up, we wouldn't suggest eliminating that, now would we?

  • Mike M.||

    The key difference is that education is supposed to be the core mission of a university.

    A lot of people question whether higher education should be involved in the business of big time semi-professional sports at all.

  • wareagle||

    but that same "lot of people" are all too happy to take the money that rolls in from big time football and basketball, be it through tv contracts or alumni donations. Can't have it both ways.

  • Metazoan||

    And immediately spend that money to build giant stadiums, overpay coaches, etc. Like I said, it sucks that the players get screwed, but so can the employees of a corporation fined for some terrible practice also be screwed. The point is, PSU football needs to be dethroned at that university.

  • AuH2O||

    Actually, let me make this point: Wanna know what I would love to see?

    One of the big time college sports programs, upon a tuition hike, use some of its supposed vast sums of money it brings in to lower tuition. Get an AD up there and say they will forgo X amount of revenue, or donate it, or whatever, to lower costs for all students.

    I'm just saying: When was the last time a state legislature hiked in-state tuition only for a big state school's athletic department to say, "Oh, give us less money and help all students out!" or "Please, alumni, don't donate to us- donate to lower tuition!"

  • robc||

    Other than Texas and a handful of others, none are making money.

  • Mike M.||

    Other than Texas and a handful of others, none are making money.

    I hear this a lot, and if it's really true that would seem to make it even less justified for most universities to be in this business.

    But personally, I have my doubts this statement is really true. College football at the FBS/BCS level is an enormous multibillion dollar business. It makes tons of money for almost everyone involved, ironically other than the players themselves.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Other than Texas and a handful of others, none are making money.

    Only if you don't count the "advertising" benefit they provide for the university to get higher enrollments and higher alumni contributions.

  • AuH2O||

    Fair point, but I will reiterate my UNM point:

    Former University of New Mexico President F. Chris Garcia, who was at the time of arrest listed as a visiting professor and professor emeritus of Political Science, was busted for running an online prostitution ring (charges he was ultimately cleared on, as reason covered in a story I am unable to find).

    When he was arrested (and yes, of course prostitution is not on the same level as child rape) no one talked about how the school needed to do some soul searching, or how could the school let a professor do this under their very noses. There was no "Political Science Chair doesn't control his own department!" stories. Some jokes were made at the school's expense, but other than that, there were no repercussions.

    However, if a former UT coach who still ran some camps with the team in the summer was found to be running a prostitution ring, even if he was later cleared of all charges, it would be a major scandal and the NCAA may punish Texas. It just seems a very weird double standard.

    And I say all of this as someone who would love to see a full audit of college finances including sports, to see how much money they actually make the school (some probably do. I would not be surprised if a lot do not)

  • Metazoan||

    To answer your question, I don't think the NCAA should punish a program whose coach runs a prostitution ring, unless the program somehow benefits directly. In the case of PSU, the crime was covered up for the sake of the program- the NCAA struck back to remind universities that it is unwise to place the program's reputation above reporting serious criminal violations.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Like that that the NCAA basically ignores cheating in Eugene, Auburn, and Norman but is more than willing to inject itself into a case that the justice system can handle without them.

    I guess it got tired of beating up on the North Dakotas and Cal Techs of the world and wants to get some punches in on a big guy that won't fight back.

  • John||

    The NCAA is so angry about Kentucky cheating, they are going to put Cleveland State on probation.

    I love that joke. And they had to kill them. They let their football program be used as bait for a guy to rape kids. I mean Jesus.

  • wareagle||

    what cheating are you talking about in any of those places? At various points, each institution has been put on probation, most recently Oregon (I think) had some sanctions. There is nothing recent with the other two that I know of. If you really want to see places where it is ignored, Notre Dame comes to mind.

  • John||

    They got a four year bowl ban, a $60 million fine, and have to vacate all of their wins from 1998 to 2011. That is worse than anything short of the death penalty.

    Glad to see them have to vacate the wins. That gets fucking Paterno off of the top of the all time win list. Fuck him. Rather see it go to Bowden.

  • Restoras||

    What happens to the fine? Into the NCAA coffers?

  • John||

    These funds must be paid into an endowment for external programs preventing child sexual abuse or assisting victims and may not be used to fund such programs at the university,"

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    How do those penalties affect the people involved in the crimes and coverup?

  • Brett L||

    Well, no coach is ever going to cover up for someone if it means losing all of his wins from that point on.

  • John||

    They don't. But so what? If the standard is "as long as you fire the people who actually do bad things your organization is in the clear" then there isn't much of an incentive not to let people run wild is there? There is always someone who is depraved enough to do anything. You have to give the institutions themselves a reason to care.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    So what? So you're punishing people who didn't do anything.

    Are you arguing that higher-ups at PSU knew what was going on and didn't care? If they did, go after them. If they didn't, no amount of punishment is going to allow someone to know something they didn't know.

  • John||

    So if a corporation goes out and commits a crime, they should be immune from any kind of criminal judgment provided they fire the CEO? Why give the corporation punitive damages or criminal fines. That is just punishing the innocent employees and stock holders isn't it?

    I think there is a place for corporate criminal actions. It shouldn't be enough just to fire the depraved. If you don't hold the institution responsible, there is no incentive to make sure you hire ethical people. What the hell, hire the unethical. If you get caught, you can just fire them and move on.

  • wareagle||

    john,
    if a corporation commits a crime, those presumed guilty are charged and prosecuted. The state does not move for summary dismissal of the secretarial staff and sales folks. THAT is what is wrong with this; it punishes everyone but the guilty.

    I get that the NCAA felt it had to do something but, once again, it shields top admins and sticks it to kids.

  • John||

    Wareagle, that doesn't make sense. The people involved have already been fired and are going to go to jail. The point is that that is not enough. The institution that allowed this to happen needs to be punished too.

  • wareagle||

    punishing people who did not commit crimes is fundamentally wrong. People being fired and/or going to jail for wrongdoing is exactly what is supposed to happen. The NCAA is simply piling on, hoping to look relevant by sticking it to people who had no culpability and appeasing the talking heads and other self-important people who want "something" done.

    Those fired/jailed ARE the institution in this case since they are the ones who let it happen. Besides, the NCAA did not even investigate anything; none of its rules were broken. The justice system's rules were violated and it is sorting out those actions.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    So if a corporation goes out and commits a crime, they should be immune from any kind of criminal judgment provided they fire the CEO?

    Kinda begs the question as to whether Penn State committed a crime, doesn't it?

    If you don't hold the institution responsible, there is no incentive to make sure you hire ethical people.

    Are you one of those "people only behave because of the law or God" people?

    Look, punish the holy fuck out of anyone involved in the actions or covering up the actions. Punish those who reasonably could have known and chose to look the other way. Punishing innocent people for the sake of deterrence is so wrong on its face it's almost scary that people make that argument in public.

  • John||

    Kinda begs the question as to whether Penn State committed a crime, doesn't it?

    Penn State clearly committed a crime. Their President, AD and Coach failed to report child abuse and allowed a child abuser to use their football program as bait for victims.

    Look, punish the holy fuck out of anyone involved in the actions or covering up the actions. Punish those who reasonably could have known and chose to look the other way. Punishing innocent people for the sake of deterrence is so wrong on its face it's almost scary that people make that argument in public.

    The institution itself is guilty of crimes. You cannot say that the institution should just walk away Scott free as long as it fires the wrong doers. IF you do that, institutions have no incentive to control their employees.

    Every time a corporation that commits a crime is fined, innocent people are punished. Hell anytime someone goes to jail that person's family is punished. So what? If the standard is "no innocent person can ever suffer because of the punishment given over the wrong doing of another" then we might as well never punish anyone.

  • ||

    So the WoD is okay then? I mean, the whole reason we throw those people in jail is to act as a deterrent to drug use.

    /Fuck JoPa and the PSU administration that covered this shit up.

  • Brett L||

    Think of it as providing incentive to the next set of head coaches, ADs, and board members who care less about child rape than their football program.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Right, because if the threat of going to federal pound me in the ass prison isn't a deterrent, losing some wins would be.

    That sounds about as reasonable as thinking gun control laws/penalties are a deterrent when murder laws/penalties weren't.

  • Metazoan||

    Of course losing wins would be a bigger deterrent. It matters more to these people, to be honest. The fact is, Paterno got away with it long enough to die first. But most people really value their legacy, and if it's destroyed, that's a far worse punishment (it basically lasts forever, unlike any prison sentence).

  • wareagle||

    how can you say "so what?" Come on, John. This lets the culpable off and punishes the uninvolved. No, hell no; the NCAA should at the very least disassociated itself with the other PSU brass who covered things up. Those fuckers should never be employed by a member institution again.

    It is this kind of penalty that shows the NCAA to be the paper tiger that it is. Those impacted had nothing to do with the problem; the actual participants walk away.

  • John||

    Again, how is this any different than a criminal penalty for a corporation?

  • wareagle||

    criminal penalties apply to people actually involved in the wrongdoing, not staffers who were innocent. Perhaps a more meaningful penalty would deal with the university's accreditation since the wrongdoing happened at the top levels.

    You're a lawyer..does corporate crime usually involve jail or fines for those who had nothing to do with the actual wrongdoing?

  • John||

    criminal penalties apply to people actually involved in the wrongdoing, not staffers who were innocent.

    Not true. Criminal penalties apply to corporations. More than a few corporations have ceased to exist and all of the people working there lost their jobs because of the criminal wrong doing of those at the top.

    Try again. You are missing my point.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    If there are criminal penalties to apply to PSU, fine. Let the legal system handle that. That has dick to do with the NCAA sticking its nose into something the legal system can handle while the NCAA prominently ignores the actual problems over which it purportedly has jurisdiction.

  • T||

    Yes. By your argument, we couldn't fine the corporation itself for OSHA violations.

    Also, depending on circumstances, supervisors can and have been held liable for the actions of subordinates.

  • ||

    Again, how is this any different than a criminal penalty for a corporation?

    Um...the NCAA isn't a law enforcement agency.

  • ||

    Due process?

  • Metazoan||

    Um, it reserves the right to regulate its members, who voluntarily joined.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Um, it reserves the right to regulate its members, who voluntarily joined.

    PSU won't go this route because they want the story to just go away, but somebody needs to file an antitrust lawsuit against NCAA when they pull shit like this.

  • John||

    They are a private sanctioning body Francisco. Where is the rule that only LEOs can punish? And last I looked private organizations owe less due process than the government.

  • Metazoan||

    Right, because you don't have to join a private organization. Joining signifies consent to its rules.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Right. PSU could join that other national college sports association instead if they don't like the rules.

    What organization is that again?

  • sloopyinca||

    What organization is that again?

    The NAIA. Or they are free to form their own organization and compete with the NCAA.

  • sloopyinca||

    Or they could join the CIS or CCAA. Either group would love to get into the US market.

  • Metazoan||

    Not my problem that they "had" to join that organization. They could have just never had a big-time sports program, anyway.

  • ||

    I believe you said "criminal".

  • Metazoan||

    Having fun playing semantics? If you sign a contract agreeing to play by a board's rules, you get to play by their rules. Surprise!

  • ||

    Okay fuckers...got it...private agreement...again, which NCAA rule was violated?

    Lack of institutional control over someone who was no longer a football coach at the time of the allegations?

    Fuck off and die in a fire. You guys aren't libertarians. Libertarians prescribe justice based on facts and the rule of law, not emotion. Some of you (John) are as bad as the fuckers over at Fox and CNN. Ruled by your emotionions much?

  • Mr. Soul||

    the worst penalty the NCAA used to dole out was "Lack of Institutional Control". This is well beyond that. This is "Lack of Institutional Integrity". The only fitting punishment is the banning of all sports until all the board of Trustees and Administrators are replaced.
    You cannot have control without integrity.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    They don't.

    In fact, considering Penn State is a state school, the taxpayers are hit harder than any of those actually involved in that the $60M comes out of their pockets.

    That's bullshit.

  • gaijin||

    Who's paying that $60 million? They kids who take out loans to finish their in- progress degrees? Yeah, I guess that's fair.

  • John||

    Don't go to the school then. No one makes them go.

  • gaijin||

    Don't go to the school then. No one makes them go.

    John, my poorly written point is that when you punish some faceless institution for crimes committed by individuals, the penalty ends up falling on people who are in no way responsible for the crime...unless you believe in collective guilt?

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    He obviously does believe in collective guilt.

  • John||

    No I don't. Those people are not being "punished" Penn State is being punished. And they happen to work there. Look at it this way, when the market punishes a corporation because the CEO makes a stupid decision, the employees who had nothing to do with that decision suffer. By your logic, we owe the corporation a bailout because how dare these innocent people be allowed to suffer for the sins of another. Bullshit.

    It is the same thing here. The executives were completely depraved and destroyed the institution that is Penn State football. Yeah, that affects a lot of people. But such is the nature of life.

  • gaijin||

    No I don't. Those people are not being "punished" Penn State is being punished.
    hmm...Well, unless you are Ben Bernanke, the money comes from revenue...which comes from tuition and fees. So whoever is paying those fees/tuition is being taxed to cough up the $60m. And, no, by my logic we don't owe Penn State a bailout...but we don't owe students a penalty because 20 people in the athletic department made horrible choices. By your logic, you should gladly pay the price imposed by depraved pols destroying the fiscal balance in government instutions...and so should your grandchildren! :)

  • Metazoan||

    You are exactly right here John. The corporation analogy was my first thought too.

  • wareagle||

    you're Paterno hatred is clouding your vision. A kid with three years in a program is not in a good position to finish up elsewhere, and again, the action affects the uninvolved much more than the perpetrators.

  • Metazoan||

    Nor is someone who is laid off at 57 from a corporation that was fined $1billion for fraud and now can't afford the position. Should that corporation not have been fined, since it hurt an innocent person? Are you serious?

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    NCAA != legal system.

  • Metazoan||

    PSU presumably signed a contract that subject it to the rulings of the NCAA. So, NCAA rules = binding. Unless you don't agree with the notion of contracts.

  • gaijin||

    well, the only objection I have to the corporation analogy is that a public university is not a corporation. Other than that, yeah it works.

  • Metazoan||

    In this context, gaijin, the distinction is merely semantics.

  • ||

    Maybe we shouldn't levy fines against an entire corporation but against the parties that were actually involved in the crime?

  • SugarFree||

    Who's paying that $60 million? They kids who take out loans to finish their in- progress degrees?

    Depends. The Athletics program at University of Kentucky emancipated themselves years ago. The only money they put in the university directly with with athletic scholarships, aka paying the way for the "employees" that make them millions.

    If the fine is hitting Athletics and not Penn State itself, what will be affected other than decimating Athletics? Which is the death penalty for the department.

    Where the fuck does that 60M go, is what I'm wondering. Into the block hole of the NCAA budget?

  • wareagle||

    see upstream. Evidently, it's for some type of fund for programs and victim assistance. I have zero confidence that anyone who was negatively impacted will see a plug nickel. The NCAA is worthless and proves it yet again.

    You want to punish an institution of higher ed? Hold its accreditation status by the balls. That carries a bit more weight than banning the football from some bowl games.

  • T||

    Yeah, but the NCAA doesn't control accreditation. And, really, do you want them to?

  • Metazoan||

    Threaten to ruin the good part of PSU (its academics)? Talk about punishing people who had nothing to do with the matter! You'd be punishing literally 10s of thousands of people who never so much as had the chance to experience the demigod status that the glorious football team holds, let alone police its activities!

  • Proprietist||

    Well, one thing I just realized was that the NCAA will probably get sued by the victims' families and might need to stockpile some of it to cover their own butts. In that sense, it's probably the right thing to do.

    While my initial reaction was that the punishment was too harsh and falls hardest on the innocent, as long as there is a clause to make an exception from the transfer rules where the players, cheerleaders, etc have to sit out a year, I'd be ok with it.

  • Gray Ghost||

    SF's question is the first one that came to my mind, on hearing about the PS penalties. I've a feeling this will help sexually abused kids about as much as tobacco settlement money helped ex-smokers.

    An advantage of this over a death penalty is that the rest of the B10 don't need to tear up their 2012 schedules, plus they're all going to be guaranteed an extra win when they play PS for the next 10 years or so. State College gets to keep their home games, which keeps the local merchants somewhat happy (not sure if they'll keep drawing 100K + for each game if they go 0-11 though).

  • Metazoan||

    "Degrees?" "PSU football players?" really?

  • ||

    (Disclaimer) I'm a Penn State Alum, Class of 88. I don't know this Paterno fella, cause I don't follow baseball...but I have a couple of questions:

    1. Which NCAA rules were violated in this incident? (I suspect none, as it is a criminal matter)

    2. IF none, when did the NCAA become a law enforcement agency?

  • Mr. Soul||

    there was no institutional control. I totally disagree with the fine. Its not about punishment if its about control. The entire PSU Administration is too corrupt to ensure the athletic dept has integrity.

  • ||

    Control of who? A former coach?

  • Tulpa the White||

    Problem is, the activities that were "uncontrolled" have nothing to do with the football program itself.

    The NCAA is supposed to only focus on things that harm the competitive integrity of the athletics, not criminal matters occuring outside the athletic program itself.

  • Mr. Soul||

    they are supposed to control the program within the bounds of what/when they knew things. The failure was that everyone in the know turned a blind eye for the sake of the storied program. The fine is BS but everyone in the chain covered up the facts and we all know that coverups are often worse than the crimes.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    The NCAA likely retains the prerogative to punish programs that are complicit in criminal matters, even if they don't violate athletic rules, per se. I don't have the time to pull up the membership charter, but I suspect there's something in there which addresses it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Didn't Baylor's basketball program get hammered because of mostly criminal activities following the 2003 season and the Dennehy murder?

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Glad to see them have to vacate the wins. That gets fucking Paterno off of the top of the all time win list.

    Especially since they had Paterno sleazily retire right after he got the record last year.

  • John||

    And how are the people at Penn State being punished? Everyone still has a job don't they? The player still have a scholarship. The idea that the innocent staff at Penn State is being punished is a misnomer.

  • Proprietist||

    One of the rulings was eliminating 10 scholarships immediately. Which is also ridiculous. Why should the players and their families be punished? I'd agree with removing scholarships if there was a recruiting scandal, but this?

  • Loki||

    Not sure if anyone else has posted this: Paterno's statue removed from Penn State's stadium.

    It's a start, at least.

  • Metazoan||

    Yeah I enjoyed that.

  • sloopyinca||

    PoliceOne's take on the Andrew Scott killing.

    First comment: "What a stupid title to a stupid story. They shot the right suspect, the one that was pointing a gun at them. Granted it may not have been the guy they wanted, nonetheless, it is done, and our brothers/sisters are safe."

    Yep. These are the people patrolling our streets.

  • Restoras||

    Good Shoot!

    That's all that matters to these animals.

  • sarcasmic||

    What's the point in getting paid to carry a club and a gun and not kill people?

  • SugarFree||

    The city of Fullerton, California won’t say whether the now former cop charged with the beating death of Kelly Thomas was fired or resigned; his employment “ended” last week. The other officer charged “left the city’s employment” July 3.

    -

    "The speculative employee was perhaps discharged in a manner that may have been determined to possibly be not inconsistent with transient policy guidesuggestionlines that might be under review."

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Officers Kenton Hampton, James Blatney and Kevin Craig who also were involved in the incident but have not been charged, remain on paid administrative leave, according to Hughes' statement Tuesday.

    The officer and the department had to separate themselves to free up money to continue paying these three gentlemen to stay at home, forced to look around their own houses for something defenseless on which to take out some aggression, on the taxpayer dime.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Charter-school envy
    Spotlight on district dysfunction
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/o.....1CVeKCf0IK

    Sadly, that’s exactly what the critics want. They’re afraid that parents may ask why the district schools can’t be better — and not like the answer.

    The critics tell parents that we have more money. Good try: Actually, charter schools run on less funding than do the district schools.

    The real answer is that we aren’t hampered by the union rules and government bureaucracy from which the district schools suffer.
  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Tampa police have spent about $13.6 million so far on big-ticket security items, including 200 bicycles, 13 electric all-terrain vehicles and one armored truck for the Aug. 27-31 Republican gathering.

    However, authorities are not revealing much more about the purchases and other expenditures.

    Well, we know they didn't buy an accountability machine.

  • Rich||

    What?! No Segways?!

  • SugarFree||

    13 electric all-terrain vehicles

    Segways with knobbly tires.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Possibly drone Segways.

  • Rich||

    "Watch me do a wheelie!"

  • gaijin||

    Paul Blart comes to mind

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Is it seriously only law enforcement keeping Segway in business? I have literally never seen a person on one who wasn't in a uniform.

  • sarcasmic||

    They see me rollin'
    on my Segway...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9qYF9DZPdw

  • Rich||

    I believe DC has Segway tours of the city.

  • ||

    Rich is correct. I was standing outside the White House, giving the finger to the Oval Office, when I saw about 13 segways roll past. I froze in my indecision about whether I should laugh Nelson Muntz style, take a picture, or try to poke a stick through the wheels of the lead segway.

  • SugarFree||

    I see one guy one the way to work with one. It has taken months of hard work, but I have finally stopped laughing so hard I almost crash into a tree when I see him.

  • ||

    They do Segway tours of Seattle. Making fun of tourists doing dorky shit is low hanging fruit, but oh, how we laugh at them every time we see them.

  • SugarFree||

    They are a poor substitute for the miles and miles of moving sidewalks science fiction promised us.

  • Pro Libertate||

    You need domed cities for that.

  • Brett L||

    Can you make them scatter like a flock of birds if you point your car at them and rev the engine?

  • ||

    It must be strange to live in a city that gets tourists. We get some hillbillies coming up to town to blow their Social Security checks in the new casino, but that's about it.

  • ||

    It is pretty much like that but with better restaurants.

  • ||

    Cleveland has surprisingly good restaurants, oddly enough. I think it's a cultural holdover from when the place was important three generations ago.

  • Pro Libertate||

    You mean when the mob was still running things?

  • Pro Libertate||

    We've got more tourists than people sometimes.

  • JW||

    DC meter maids use them. I once saw one of the man-maids, cite a car, print the ticket and then zoom off around the corner, all in about 15 seconds.

    The way it went down, the speed and angle of the Segway, and you'd swear you were looking at a cartoon. It was comical.

  • Rasilio||

    Got em all over the place here in Boston too.

  • Brett L||

    I saw a cameraman on one in a shot at the Open yesterday.

  • ||

    Riding a Segway is so much fucking fun. I often think about doing a Segway tour of DC just so I can ride one again.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Someone is building some sort of tower on the Pinellas side of the Howard Frankland bridge (which crosses the bay). I have no idea why.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I looked it up. Here's the official name: Interstate City Welcoming Structure.

  • SugarFree||

    When an entire city from another state decides to visit, you'll be glad to have a structure to welcome them.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Perhaps they know something about end times that we do not? Clearly, it's not global warming or an asteroid strike in the oceans, as St. Pete would not be a good location for that.

  • SugarFree||

  • ||

    Is it a Scientology thing? It seems obvious to me.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I'd buy that, except the Howard Frankland goes to St. Pete, not Clearwater. If this Interstate City Welcoming Structure were on the causeway, I'd definitely suspect Scientology.

    Could be that they're buying up St. Petersburg, too. I've heard that they're acquiring chunks of Ybor City.

  • John||

    So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape.”

    Plus: “The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens — roughly one-quarter of the population — have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didn’t even make the ‘top 10′ list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime

    http://voxday.blogspot.com/201.....logic.html

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Australia - always topping Heritage Freedom Index with their national healthcare, gun bans, and carbon taxes.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Stench of Bush still too prevalent to allow him to attend GOP Convention.

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/.....29622.html

    Maybe by 2032.

  • John||

    He should attend the DNC. They are the ones that endorsed and continued all of his policies

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Win

  • Rich||

    "Stench of Bush", eh?

  • Bardas Phocas||

    That's the Obama campaign slogan - "Four more years of the Stench of Bush - Re-elect The O"

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    As opposed to 'fragrance of bush".

  • R C Dean||

    So you're saying Bush is still too tainted?

  • Lord Humungus||

    Tony Robbins event ends in 'wails of pain' as attendees walk on hot coals

    Over 20 people treated for burns after multi-day motivational event encourages attendees to take a leap of faith on coals.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....-walk-burn

    What would you do for a Klondike bar?

  • Rich||

    the Robbins Research International told the newspaper: "We have been safely providing this experience for more than three decades"

    "It doesn't hurt us a bit."

  • Zeb||

    Well, you're not supposed to use actual coal to make the coals.
    I wonder if they used some denser wood for the fire than usual, or something?

  • SugarFree||

    The key is to have damp but not wet feet and to have wet grass on the other side. The the length of the walk plays a factor. There's a lot of ways to fuck this stunt up, like a bed of nails only made out of 20 nails.

  • Rasilio||

    Yep, damp but not wet feet, walk at a steady but not slow pace and definately don't run, let the coals burn down to the level that they have a coating of ash on the outside of them.

    Then it works by the the thin layer of water on your feet vaporizing and that vapor combining with the ash to provide an insulating layer between the coals and your feet. However if you go to slow it'll still burn you and if you run your foot will hit the bed of coals too hard and bury in it causing your foot to come into contact with the lower level embers which contain MUCH more energy.

  • Lord Humungus||

    Fears over Sicily's future as euro flow stops and bankruptcy looms

    A bleak combination of routine corruption, misused funds and mafia influence is taking the beautiful, troubled island to the brink of the abyss
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....new-greece

  • ant1sthenes||

  • Quetzalcoatl||

  • Lord Humungus||

    Whither QE3?
    http://finance.townhall.com/co.....page/full/

    If however Mankiw's predicted Federal Funds Rate reverses and resumes rising, we can expect the Fed to do nothing with respect to quantitative easing.

    Time will tell, and it will likely be some months yet before the Fed decides to pull the trigger, or not, on QE3.

    Finally, aside from their intended effect upon the U.S. money supply, one of the more interesting characteristics of the Fed's QE programs has been that while they ran, they appear to have boosted stock prices about 10-15% higher than they might otherwise have been, which is perhaps the biggest reason why Wall Street is holding out such hope for a new round of quantitative easing these days.
  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Syria says will use chemical weapons if attacked"
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_SYRIA

  • Restoras||

    Huh, I had no idea Syria even had chemical weapons. Where'd it get them?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Five bucks says they're stamped with Made in the USA.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    Don't think chemistry is forbidden in the Middle East.

  • Restoras||

    Sure but don't you need a petro-chemical industry to make chemical weapons? Or a huge pile of cash to buy them with? Does Syria have those things?

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Sure but don't you need a petro-chemical industry to make chemical weapons? Or a huge pile of cash to buy them with?

    I think you just need an RV and some highschool lab supplies.

  • T||

    Seriously, it depends on how sophisticated you want to be. Do you want to make nerve agents with known degradation times? That takes some work, and is beyond what Syria can do. But chlorine or mustard gas? Easy-peasy, and if you have any functioning industry at all, you'll be able to procure the raw materials.

  • Gray Ghost||

    If you can make pesticides, and I've no doubt they can, then you can make nerve agents. Delivery systems take a bit more work, especially if you want to make something like a binary nerve agent and have it work when you want it to, but it's well within the capability of a nation state.

    For cryin' out loud, a bunch of Japanese cultists made nerve gas back in the 90's. (Thankfully, it's harder to make a decent aerosol than they anticipated.) It's not that hard.

    If the Syrians use them against NATO, then it's use of a WMD against NATO personnel, and shortly after that, the Syrian government and army will cease to exist. Not sure if NATO would use tactical nukes in that case; I don't think NATO'd need to in order to stop the Syrians from effectively using chemical weapons. It's an interesting question though.

  • Ska||

    Amonia plus chlorine would work,no?

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Syria is significantly dependent upon outside assistance for all of its WMD programs. There have been reports over the life of the Syria program that Syria has obtained significant assistance from various states, significantly Russia and France."
    http://www.globalsecurity.org/.....ria/cw.htm

  • T||

    Off the back of the trucks that fled across the border from Iraq before we invaded the second time?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Rumsfeld was Saddam Hussein's supplier in the 80's.

    Blowback. Ron Paul right on target there.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    But there were no chemical weapons in Iraq, remember:
    “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” - Nancy Pelosi

  • T||

    Paging Bill Hicks: "During the Persian Gulf war those intelligence reports would come out: "Iraq: incredible weapons - incredible weapons." How do you know that? "Uh, well...we looked at the receipts."”

  • Srynerson||

    I don't know for sure, but it's quite possible that the Egyptians may have first shared the technology with the Syrians when both Egypt and Syria were part of the "United Arab Republic" from 1958 to 1961. (Sources conflict on how the Egyptians themselves got their chemical weapons program launched. Some suggest that the Soviets provided the technology, some say it was a purely domestic development, and still others say the Egypts seized British chemical weapons and weapon precursor stockpiles at the Suez Canal in 1956, because the British had reportedly stored the compounds there during WW II and never got around to removing them.)

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Has anyone else heard that the Aurora murderer was wearing shit like this and not real body armor?

  • John||

    Too bad no one there had a weapon to see just how good his armor was.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    I have not, no.

  • SugarFree||

    The interview with the Aurora police chief he stated that the officers on scene were able to tell he wasn't SWAT only by a few tell-tale clues, and that he was wearing body armor.

    FWIW...

  • JW||

    I predict that 98% of what was reported in the first 36 hours will later turn out to be complete shit.

  • Coeus||

    called it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Here's your High Speed Train, Bay Area. Sorry we forgot to include the tunnel in the budget, so it looks like you're all gonna have to pony up $650M in toll hikes and taxes to pay for it.

    Dumbasses.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    This is why Christie was wise to turn down the "free money" offered for his tunnel.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Also, Governor Skeletor here in Florida, in one of the actually intelligent things he's done.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Didn't he end up taking the money after public outcry?

  • BakedPenguin||

    I don't think so, I couldn't find anything other than "rejects" during a quick Google.

  • ||

    No, youre thinking of Sunrail not the High Speed Rail line.

    Sunrail is the suburban commuter line being built in Greater Orlando right now.

    The high speed line is still on the state's wish list for the I-4 corridor from Tampa to Daytona Beach. I-4 reconstruction projects now being let include provision for a HSR line in the median. There is much eyerolling among the employees of consultants and contractors involve. Everyone knows that it the price being paid to get federal funding for necessary improvements to I-4.

  • Pro Libertate||

    At least he says no to stuff. Charlie "Hamiltonian Tan" Crist would've lapped it all up. For the people (inside Central Florida joke).

  • Spartacus||

    That's all over Florida. We get it here in SW part of the state too. My wife mutes the TV whenever he comes on.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Really? That's distressing. It's like the pythons, only with sleazy plaintiffs' attorneys.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure there's a dictionary that has John Morgan's picture next to the definition of sleazy.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Did your mother die of old age? Please use us to sue someone.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Forgot to include the tunnel? Really? That's outright fraud.

    Soooooo who's going to get fired?

  • sloopyinca||

    Soooooo who's going to get fired?

    Well, there is a concerted effort to redistrict those pesky obstructionist Republicans in the Legislature. I guess they can be used as a scapegoat one last time.

  • JW||

    Soooooo who's going to get fired?

    "You're doing a helluva job, Brownie."

  • Rhywun||

    This tunnel has been planned since long before HSR - I dunno where that paper got the idea that it was supposed to be included.

  • sloopyinca||

    I do. They thought the feds were gonna open a spigot and the free money was going to pour out of it and make their budgetary issues go away. And it probably would have if they'd have been more creative in their shilling for money.

  • AuH2O||

    I think I have a new favorite website. It's called Autostraddle, and it is all the retard of feministing, but with a comments section.

    Recently, they wrote about why Chick-Fil-A is evil. Other than the owners anti-gay stance, here is why all right think feminist lesbians must oppose it. This is retard on steroids:

    It's more or less impossible to eat any kind of fast food ethically. It's not a secret that fast food remains an incredibly lucrative business, and that the corporations who supply food to the stores and the stores themselves spend a lot of money in the political arena to maintain their wealth and dominance, very little of which goes towards anything in your best interest. I mean really, where do we begin?

    The food service industry loves Republicans, a party that generally supports the industry's policies of paying workers minimum wage with few benefits and eschewing nutritional and food safety standards. (Chick-fil-A's store operators pull in an average of $190,000 a year, its employees -- not so much.) Of the nearly five million dollars spent by Food Beverage industry PACS in the 2010 election, 67% of that went to Republican candidates and 32% to Democrats. (Of course not all Democrats are on our side and not all Republicans are against us, but it's safe to say that generally, Republicans tend to be against us.)

    Link:
    http://www.autostraddle.com/ga.....le-141777/

  • John||

    It's more or less impossible to eat any kind of fast food ethically.

    Words fail.

  • Restoras||

    I'll bookmark this for the days when we don't get our fill of retard from shrike, Tony, and dunphy.

  • John||

    Shrike is not so much retarded as just depraved.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'll bookmark this for the days when we don't get our fill of retard from shrike, Tony, and dunphy.

    So, basically you're saying you'll never go back there?

  • AuH2O||

    As the gays say, it gets better:

    Interesting, then, that Chick-fil-A dabbles so carelessly in its treatment of G-d's creatures such as, you know, CHICKENS. Like other fast food restaurants, Chick-fil-A gets its meat from factory farms, which pump their poultry with chemicals, harvest their animals in appalling conditions and damage the environment.

    You're probably aware that fast food is literally killing us, and the allegedly healthier Chick-fil-A is not exempt from that assessment. One of the main ingredients of Chick-Fil-A's chicken nuggets is Monosodium Glutamate, a.k.a. MSG, an excitotoxin that can cause severe reactions in certain people and isn't "good for" anybody. 18 preservatives are among the 100 ingredients in their "fresh" chicken sandwich. Chick-fil-A is one of many restaurants included in a lawsuit from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine for its policy of cooking certain meats at temperatures which cause them to contain the chemical PhIP, a possible carcinogen. For a complete breakdown of the alleged "healthy" factor of their products, check out Food Babe.

    I had to include at least one of their fucktarded hyperlinks, because it's a link that's supposed to prove that fast food is literally killing us. It links to a site called "Stop Corporate Abuse" that doesn't cite any studies.

  • SugarFree||

    One of the main ingredients of Chick-Fil-A's chicken nuggets is Monosodium Glutamate, a.k.a. MSG, an excitotoxin that can cause severe reactions in certain people and isn't "good for" anybody.

    Fucking morons. The next time someone tells you they have a MSG allergy ask them if they eat Parmesan cheese. Or anchovies. Or any sort of soy sauce. Or miso. Or most beans, seeds, and meat. All are high in glutamates.

  • Brett L||

    Don't trouble them with facts, Sug. It gives them a bigger headache than their MSG allergy.

  • R C Dean||

    One of the main ingredients? I seriously doubt that.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Mmmm, MSG burger.

  • Ska||

    Is that anything like the large clumps of salt, cheese and spices that you'll find in a bag of Snyder's pretzel bit, but without the actual pretzel?

    It's like a sodium overdose in one soft, horrifying bite.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Just so we're clear: the carcinogen they're talking about comes from cooking meat at high temperatures.
    They're basically complaining that the chicken is being grilled. I guess it should be sous-vided or something.

  • AuH2O||

    Your focus on rationality and facts is just a patriarchal construct!

    /Actual argument put forth by some feminists.

  • AuH2O||

    And just to bug him... I name Epi as my Wesley Crusher surrogate.

  • AuH2O||

    Put that in the wrong place. Damnit, Wesley Epi!

  • Lord Humungus||

    why would a fast food restaurant owner want to pay his entry-level workers more than minimum wage?

  • AuH2O||

    This question does not Fempute.

  • robc||

    want to?

    In some areas, he has to, in order to get anyone.

  • Zeb||

    Yeah, very few fast food restaurants pay minimum wage.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Goldwater - Going where no man has gone before, to seek out new dunces...

  • AuH2O||

    The Internet. The final frontier. These are the voyages of the commentator Goldwater. His continuing mission- to seek out new unintelligent life and civilization. Explore idiotic new worlds. To boldly go where no man has gone before.

  • sloopyinca||

    To boldly go where no man has gone before.

    There's a Jos Truitt joke in there somewhere...just begging to get out.

  • AuH2O||

    Kinda like Jos's dick straining against the tuck?

  • Fluffy||

    Most fast food outlets have 30 or more employees across all shifts.

    So this cunt is complaining that somebody who runs a business that employs 30 people makes $190,000 a year.

    But of course, that's a perfectly fair salary for some asshole driving a subway train in Philadelphia. Because that whole "hitting the go button and then hitting the stop button" gig is so critical.

  • BakedPenguin||

    Be fair, they probably have to hold a dead-man's switch, too.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Is that really what subway conductors make in Philly?

  • ||

    No, but $100k is common. I'm not opposed to it, either. If someone is operating heavy machinery that moves hundreds of people at a time, I want them to have good incentives not to screw up. I don't want my train driven by the guy making $8/hr.

  • JW||

    (Chick-fil-A's store operators pull in an average of $190,000 a year, its employees -- not so much.)

    Because, you know, these jobs are exactly alike.

  • Rasilio||

    Yeah and lets not forget that if the store has a bad couple of months the operator doesn't make anything and if it goes out of business he loses his investment, but those employees still get paid for the hours they work no matter what.

  • ||

    store operators pull in an average of $190,000 a year

    OMG, like, they're so rich! Burn 'em!

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    Libs hate on Chik-fil-a because it's possibly the least pozzed fast-food chain out there.

    I think I'll go get me some tonight.

  • CampingInYourPark||

    “It’s wrong to ask seniors to pay more for Medicare just so millionaires and billionaires can pay less in taxes," Obama said before his trip was cut short in response to the Colorado theater shooting. "That's not the way to reduce the deficit."

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfro...../id/446105

  • AuH2O||

    Um, actually, it is the only way, with healthcare increasing yearly at 6% above inflation. I mean, unless Obama wants to admit that "death panels" wasn't that big of misnomer and rationing will occur.

  • robc||

    Penn State gets 4 year postseason ban. Which I called on another site. That allows ALL current players to transfer without penalty. Its all but the death penalty.

  • robc||

    Wow, I pretty much nailed this. I wish I had posted it here for bragging purposes.

    4 year postseason ban, Scholly reduction to 15 per year for those 4 years.
    They will be starting from scratch almost 4 years from now.

  • AuH2O||

    Which is bullshit. If Sandusky was a surgeon, and Paterno was the Head of Penn State's world-renowned in this alternate reality School of Medicine, we would not be saying that the entire medical program needs to lose its accreditation.

    Furthermore, they broke legal statute, not NCAA rules.

    Frankly, the NCAA in general needs to die in a fire. Its a ballless, spineless organization that gives college sports a false veneer of credibility because of their insistence on "student athletes" while there reliance on universities means they will never really have the guts or the legal means to truly enforce their rules on the biggest, most profitable institutions.

  • robc||

    Furthermore, they broke legal statute, not NCAA rules.

    Not true. They broke the ethics clause of their NCAA contract.

  • Proprietist||

    Not only that, but the NCAA will probably be named in future lawsuits.

  • robc||

    Frankly, the NCAA in general needs to die in a fire.

    On this I agree.

  • John||

    If Sandusky was a surgeon, and Paterno was the Head of Penn State's world-renowned in this alternate reality School of Medicine, we would not be saying that the entire medical program needs to lose its accreditation.

    I don't know that that is true. If a med school were covering up for a child abuse ring, it might very well get shut down. It certainly would lose millions in funding grants and such.

    And they did break the NCAA rules. The rules are that you are supposed to control your football program and make sure it isn't out of control. Penn State totally failed to do that. They are getting exactly what they deserve.

  • Brett L||

    Really? You don't think that the accrediting bodies for Medical Schools might threaten to withdraw accreditation over such an incident where facilities were used and important people looked the other way? Because I do.

  • AuH2O||

    Maybe it's possible, but it does seem that we get much more indignant about it because it was a big time sports program than we do any of the bullshit that happens in acedemia.

    If we find out that athletes are cheating, we are up in arms, but if we find out about department mismanagement, fraud, abuse, etc. (poor scientific practices come to mind, see Global Warming) we get this "ACADEMIC FREEDOM!" shit thrown in our faces.

  • robc||

    The academic scandal at UNC wrt football players has them at least a tiny bit worried about accreditation. More worried that its going to hit the basketball program too, but a little worried.

  • AuH2O||

    That's still sports based, though. I just think it is weird that scandals in sports cause us to say, "This school must be burned in fire and its memory scratched from the history books!" but other bullshit in college management and academia is allowed to slide.

    For God's sake, UNM just had a former president get off for running an online prostitute ring, but no one talked about any penalty levied at UNM for that.

  • robc||

    the national collegiate prostitution association would if they existed.

  • BakedPenguin||

    I thought that was the NCAA.

  • Brett L||

    The difference is that your scenario would have been thrown overboard in '98. That's why this requires such a response. The power of the program allowed someone to abuse these children well past when it should have been stopped. And the governing authority of the program (the NCAA) needs to be seen as being responsive in a way the school was not.

  • AuH2O||

    But Brett L, according to most reports, it wasn't a widespread conspiracy. It was four (very powerful) people:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....=cf_t11_a2

    The former President, VP, AD, and Coach.

    Not everyone involved in the administration, athletic department, or football team knew about this.

    I guess I am just annoyed that, much like corporate fines (a good example above), shit is going to roll downhill on this. The CEO who did is often working for another company, and won't get screwed, but the poor fuckers in the mailroom will.

  • Lord Humungus||

    OT: anyone have experience with Lexus? Looking to replace my wife's Honda Element with something more highway worthy since my Toyota pickup is okay for short jaunts, but not the greatest for long cruises. The Element, with its short wheel-base and CRV based suspension isn't very good either. Looking at a used 400 (430/450) (LS or GS) series for her to drive and I definitely would like the sleeper aspect.

  • John||

    They have bullet proof reliability. They are a really well built car. They are a Toyota. But I think they are like all Japanese cars boring as hell. But if you want a boring car that is really nice and well built, you can't go wrong with a Lexus if you have the cash for one.

  • Lord Humungus||

    yeah, the Avalon we owned for a short spell was boring as sin. Hell, it made the (now departed) Marquis feel like a great car. Oddly enough, I really like Toyota trucks so maybe I'll look at a 4Runner for her.

  • John||

    Toyota trucks kick ass. They are not boring like the cars. And they run forever. My older brother has a Tundra with over 250,000 miles on it. Still runs like a top. You can't kill those things.

  • R C Dean||

    I'm hoping to get 200K miles on my FJ. Not a great highway cruiser, but when you need to go offroad, there's nothing better.

  • sloopyinca||

    Banjos and I just got a small farm and we're moving in starting next week. There's an old Willy's Jeep Wagon probably from the late 40's to early 50's there. Engine is working and body is rust-free except for some surface spotting.

    Any ideas what it will take to get it up and running?

    There's also a running 40's vintage GMC 1-Ton Flatbed there that we can have and an early 70's Merc 250 or 280 (unknown running condition). Same question.

    Also, what does it take to title an abandoned vehicle in Ca?

  • John||

    Being the owner of a classic car, I can actually help you with that.

    If it truly is rust free, you can get a good respray on the pain for around 1500 or so. My advice would be to find a local high school votech and see if you can get them to do the painting. They love to do paint and body on classic cars. That would only cost you a few hundred. If there is rust you are looking at a lot more money. Check the floorboards. Good rust work runs about $90 an hour labor.

    As far as the mechanics, you can get a professional engine rebuild for around 2700, that is a factory new engine. A new transmission is around 1500. It just depends on what kind of condition it is in. Name a part on a car, and it probably has one of them wrong on it. Be prepared for an expensive labor of love. But a Jeep Wagon would be way cool.

    My advice would be to sell the MERC for parts and redo one of the pickups, whichever one you like the best.

  • T||

    The wife has a 4runner. It's nice, but it ain't no Lexus. If you want to be more comfortable, get the Lexus. It also depends on what you need to carry. We can fit the world in the back of that 4runner.

  • R C Dean||

    The Avalon is basically a Lexus, you know. Mother Dean has one. For highway driving, its a very nice car. If you found the Avalon too dull, you will have the same reaction to the Lexus.

    For drivin' excitement, my white knuckles can testify to the supremacy of the AMG line. Check out the used ones; Mrs. Dean has a 2008 E63 that she is actually satisfied with. If a used E63 is too spendy, a used C63 might not be more than the Lexus.

  • John||

    A friend of mine has an 09 AMG C 63. It is a lot more than a Lexus. That care is insanely fast.

  • JW||

    The problem with German Autobahn rockets is that even if you get a good deal on one, it's still a full-price Mercedes when the mechanic pops the hood.

    From people that I know who have a Merc, that is frighteningly too frequent.

  • John||

    I have nearly 70K on my Merc and I haven't had a single problem beyond a failed thermostat. The finish could be better. But overall I love the car

  • JW||

    They may have improved recently, but to illustrate, a board member of my old .org complained a few years ago about how all 3 of his Mercs were in the shop at once.

    Of course, he was complaining to another board member who owns a string of dealerships. He said to come in and he'll fix him up with a Lexus.

  • R C Dean||

    So far, so good as far as repairs on the ICBM. [fingers crossed]

  • JW||

    Don 't get me wrong, I'd love an AMG, especially after watching a F1 grand prix. ;)

  • T||

    BMW is the same way. One of the reasons we traded in the X3 on the 4Runner. Even routine maintenance is stupid expensive.

  • John||

    Routine maintenance is stupid expensive. But I have found my car to be very reliable.

  • WTF||

    I have a 4runner, bought it in 2008, it is reliable, great in snow, rough terrain, and can carry alot of stuff comfortably.

  • JW||

    If you do end up getting a Lexus or similar, make sure to get a CPO one.

    Only chumps pay full price.

  • R C Dean||

    I doubt I'll ever buy a new car again. CPO is the way to go, IMO.

  • ||

    If you want a Toyota, why pay a bunch more for a Toyota with a fancy badge and some leather seats? Just get a Toyota.

  • John||

    Yeah. I would imagine a really high end Camry is pretty close to a Lexus.

  • Spartacus||

    We got a Camry XLE last fall (for my wife). It has a very nice ride, a great sound system (with bluetooth and a built in XM receiver), and excellent acceleration, even with a 4 cylinder engine. I don't know anything about Lexus so i don't know how it compares, but Mrs. Spartacus has been really happy with her Camry.

  • Lord Humungus||

    there is no Toyota equivalent to the LS 400 series.

  • ||

    Just get her a Tundra and an American flag. She'll thank you for it later.

  • JW||

    You should get her a Lexius. That way you can really overpay for that smug sense of superiority.

  • Restoras||

    I have a 2004 RX330. The service department is great and it still feels/drives like it did when we first got it.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    The Element? Is your wife a geometry teacher? A fan of Cubist art?

  • Lord Humungus||

    a fan of funky.

  • Lord Humungus||

    The Element is a neat little car/van provided comfort isn't your first priority. The back seats can fold to the sides or be extended to make a bed. Steering is good though the 2.3L engine isn't exactly a powerhouse. She likes it but I want to scream after 10 minutes since I'm tall and the wheel well intrudes where I normally place my left foot.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    a fan of funky.

    She must be if she married you!
    HEY-OOOH!

    Also:

    The Element is a neat little car/van provided comfort isn't your first priority.


    As a Buick driver, I can assure you that comfort is my first priority.

  • sarcasmic||

    I can't remember the last time I saw a Buick driven by someone under seventy years old.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    And that is precisely why they're so comfortable! Plenty of padding, lots of room, automatic everything!

  • sarcasmic||

    Like sitting in a bath tub.

  • JW||

    There are 2 car makes that I automatically pass without hesitation: Buick and Toyota. I'll throw in Lincoln too, but it's not as consistent.

    I must save myself hours every week, not sitting behind these fucking Rascals of the highway.

  • Lord Humungus||

    I used to drive a '95 Buick Roadmaster. It was essentially a Caprice cop car / Impala SS under the old man styling. Lots of fun with that sleeper.

  • JW||

    "It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?"

  • Restoras||

    "Fix the cigarette lighter."

  • John||

    Its got some power.

  • ||

    I had a rental Buick one time to drive 18 hours to FL. I looooved it. I almost want to say it was a little too comfortable for those long hours in the seat.

  • KMA Too||

    Lord, what is your take on the Element, overall? I'm thinking I want to get the last production year when it's time to change, but I don't know what to expect from it.

    I need something with leg and knee room, (i.e. without a center console on the trans hump), and I think the Element is like that. Also, I don't really want a truck, per se. You say it's not good for long drives? As in, not preferable for road trips?

  • Pro Libertate||

    NSX. Honda is bringing it back. For you, I mean, not your wife.

  • rac3rx||

    My Uncle owned Lexus for years, and they are a great flavor of vanilla, automotively speaking. I noticed there was no mention of Infiniti on this thread. Wonderful cars, dependable as hell, and fantastic fit and finish.

    As with all of these "luxury" lines (Lexus, BMW, MB, Infiniti) repairs will cost you. Luckily with the Lexus and Infiniti, there aren't that many.

    I know BMW and MB have scheduled wear for just about every component, which is why you should never keep a new one one more than 5 years or buy one that's more than 5 years old.

    Neither Lexus nor Infiniti don't have these issues that I'm aware.

  • sloopyinca||

    More details coming out about the shooting in Anaheim that led to the police shooting rubber bullets at people huddled over small children.

    FTA: Anaheim Police Sgt. Bob Dunn told The Times that the incident began Saturday when two patrol officers tried to approach three men in an alley in the 600 block of North Anna Drive.

    Welter said at the news conference that the officers saw a man leaning against a vehicle, talking to two men, and that they considered the activity "suspicious," the Register reported. The officers approached the vehicle, which drove off, officials said.

    So leaning against a vehicle talking to someone is "suspicious" now? What the fuck? I guess I'm lucky the cops didn't roll up when my neighbor and I were outside chatting yesterday afternoon.

  • Quetzalcoatl||

    Yeah, but you know you gangsta.

  • sloopyinca||

    Just a gut-wrenching story out of Palm Springs, CA about a man treated like shit by the police.

    Not surprising, but sad nonetheless.

  • ||

    Bentinck's son and daughter, outraged at their father's treatment, told me they believe his honesty worked against him; he could have just said he had entered her room and discovered his wife had died.

    Never talk to the police.

  • T||

    "Anything you say can and will be used against you, but nothing you say to the police will be used to exculpate you."

  • sloopyinca||

    "He refused to cooperate, which meant he must have been hiding something. We decided to take him in based on that information."

    /typical cop

  • sarcasmic||

    You're fucked either way.

    If you talk to them they'll twist what you say into something they can use to arrest you, and if you don't talk to them they'll consider you to be uncooperative and arrest you.

    The best thing to do is to avoid any situation where you have to talk to them.

  • Tulpa the White||

    Dead woman with oxygenator unplugged from the wall and you standing in the room... if you don't talk, you will go to jail.

    This guy's mistake was going into detail about the vodka and stuff.

  • Tulpa the White||

    You left out the district attorney. He's not locked up in prison for three days without the DA approving.

    Sounds like most of the shittiness was on the part of jail personnel, not cops, anyway.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, and the people who took the Jews to Treblinka were not as responsible as the guards, were they?

    I hate Godwinning, but it's called-for here. The process started with the police, therefore they bear a great deal of responsibility. They arrested him. They took him to jail. They put him in the position to be mistreated.

  • SugarFree||

    Can't. Stop. Barfing.

    Oh... there's more coming up...

    Olivia Spencer
    Wait....Hillary is not attractive? Sure, the pantsuits are pretty awful, but she is not ugly or unattractive at all. Hillary Clinton is a pretty attractive lady - not as attractive as Sigourney Weaver, but attractive nonetheless.

    BARF!

  • T||

    Somebody has lesbian BD fantasies featuring Hilary. NTTAWWT.

  • SugarFree||

    There is everything in the entire goddamn fucking world wrong with that.

  • sarcasmic||

    I overheard some Secret Service guys chatting about how Hillary used to have all girl perfume parties in the White House. Weird shit.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Was she trying to sell her friends shit? I think women still do that.

  • R C Dean||

    103 people were killed in a suicide bombing in Iraq yesterday,

    The Tea Party is in Iraq now? Who knew?

  • AuH2O||

    Weird moment: Some people on the AV Club are arguing for Citizens United.

    Dogs and cats, living together- mass hysteria!

  • sloopyinca||

    Really? If only there were such a thing in a comment that one could put their pointer over and click on, which would take them to the article you are referring to.

    /sarcasm

  • AuH2O||

    http://www.avclub.com/articles/amen,82685/

    And if only you weren't such an asshole and believed in Graham Gano (pbuh) you wouldn't have lost fantasy football and then met your wife.

    SO CONGRATULATIONS, YOU FOX EARED ASSHOLE!

  • CampingInYourPark||

    "Obama Energy Policies Are Working: Patriot Coal Goes Bankrupt"
    http://www.canadafreepress.com.....icle/48115

  • JimVooo||

    Dang that hooker is hawt! Why cant I find hookers that look like that where i live??

    www.fun-anon.tk

  • R C Dean||

    Now SKyNet is coming for our wimmin, too. I don't know whether to be impressed, or repulsed.

  • NeonCat||

    Hopefully it keeps it virus protection up to date.

  • rac3rx||

    What the bloody hell?

  • sloopyinca||

    One good hing out of the Penn State scandal: Ohio State no longer has a losing record from last year. The vacated game makes their record 6-6.

    God Bless the NCAA.

  • John||

    Everyone saw the games.

  • ||

    6-6, I says. SCOREBOARD

  • robc||

    Doesnt work that way. Vacated games are still losses for the losing team.

  • sloopyinca||

    I thought they were stricken from the records as opposed to a forfeit, where the loser gets a win.

    So if a team cheats and they are forced to vacate a bunch of wins, the loser still has a loss and the winner has a hole in their record? That makes no sense. The game's result is vacated. meaning the loss is also vacated. Right?

  • daltonallan||

    as Jacqueline said I'm stunned that some people able to earn $4658 in one month on the computer. did you look at this webpage makecash16com

  • ||

    I saw an ad in my Facebook sidebar for "libertarian feminists", so I had to click through and see. Their mission statement sounds all hunky dory and shit (equal rights are obtained without government intervention, that the individual is the most important element of society, yadda yadda). Then I noticed their fans were spouting the same old liberal conformist garbage that plagues feminism.

    Choice comment, referring to the posting of a reason book review for :

    reason seems to think it has something of substance (not). the comments (again) are so revealing (far more) about their followers attitude to females. i keep getting the impression of males who have serious failure-to-communicate-issues with females gather together to be bitter and assert 'some kind of perceived superiority' as a gender. moran's article itself is an opinion...re/ reason, i would addenum clueless with bitter. reason lost me after the article that degrading and violent porn was a right with the defecating on females being just fine and utilising libertarianism to sell their misogynistic little world. it sounds like a bunch of 5yo boys at times, except that is an insult to 5yo boys. it makes me shake my head for thousandth time.

    OMGZ teh patriarchy! Male GAZE! I wonder what they would say if I posted that I'm a regular commenter here? I bet it would have the words "Stockholm Syndrome" somewhere in it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Send the link to Banjos. She'd love to toy with those fuckheads once in a while.

  • ||

    here ya go, for Banjos (I had to put some unnecessary spaces in there to get pas the filters)

    https://www. facebook.com/Association ofLibertarianFeminists

  • Coeus||

    At least somebody's been reading my posts.

  • ||

    Obviously you have been brainwashed by our patriarchy. Or something.

  • ||

    barf

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