Pelosi on Democrats' Likely Health Care Procedure: "I like it because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."

The Post's headline—"House may try to pass Senate health care bill without voting on it"—tells you all you really need to know about the what of House Democrats' procedural strategy via the Slaughter Rule (which I explained in greater detail here). But it doesn't tell you much about the why

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi explains that she "like[s] it because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill." And presumably that's what anxious legislators who might want to vote for reform but don't like the Senate bill are thinking too. But Democrats nervous about voting for the bill would still have to vote on the reconciliation bill—which, under the Slaughter Rule, would not only amend the original bill but also trigger its passage.

In other words, legislators will still have to cast a vote for the passage of the original Senate bill. And what's more, they'll do so using a complicated procedure that makes it look as if they are trying to hide their votes.

Politically, this seems like a far worse option, especially considering how much negative attention has already been paid to the deal-making, gimmicks, and procedural complexities of the health reform process. And lest I be accused of concern trolling, smart health reform advocates seem to think so too.

Pelosi has yet to signal that Democrats will go ahead with this plan, only that she likes the idea. So if it's necessary for passage, I don't doubt that it'll be the route she chooses. But I really don't see why it would be necessary or beneficial for any of the wavering Democrats it's presumably meant to placate.

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  • Caption Contest||

    "...so I grabbed his nutsack like THIS and told him to vote for my fucking bill or I'd crush his nuts."

  • ||

    "I swear to god, I had this much up Kucinich's ass, but he wouldn't budge on the vote."

  • Almanian||

    "Fist bump if we get it through this week!"

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I'm beginning to suspect it's the leadership to blame for the congressional Democrat freefall.

  • ||

    Can't be. Tony was lauding Nancy's leadership skills as speaker on these very pages just yesterday.

  • Almanian||

    Practically slobbering

  • MNG||

    That's sad for Tony. Pelosi has been a terrible Speaker. To me that should be fairly obvious to anyone on any side of the aisle.

  • The Gobbler||

    Hello Shit Facktory!

    EOM

  • MNG||

    Gobby, gobby!

    Hey, did I leave my tie on your mother's night table last night? Can you run upstairs and check for me? Thanks gobby.

  • Zeb||

    Oh just stop with this shit. Ignore MNG if he is being an ass, but these campaigns of pointless insults just make this all less pleasant to read.

  • MNG||

    Zeb, nothing will quench Gobby's white hot and oh so impotent rage at liberals. He must take action!

  • EVL29||

    I honestly can't think of another high level government official in the last 25 years that was/is more insufferably stupid than frisco nancy.

  • ||

    ...so if I hear one more time someone say that there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans, I hereby declare that person an idiot.

    Republicans are hypocritical, pandering, big-government populists, no question about it, but Democrats are proving over and over that they are far worse. Democracy and liberty are the enemies of the Democrats.

  • ||

    Well, the Dems are slightly ahead in the contest to determine which party is the bigger set of assclowns, but it's an ongoing contest and the Repubs will get a chance to retake the lead soon enough.

  • Chicken George||

    Oh bullshit. You just don't see these kind of fiascos as often with the Republicans because they're more disciplined; if the Democrats in congress acted like Republicans, they would have block-voted this thing through months ago.

    I'm not going to bemoan this fractiousness. It's one reason I prefer Democrats to run congress. It's a lot harder for them to bugger things up without bipartisan support.

  • ||

    I know. It was amazing how the Republicans were able to pass the Patriot Act and the Iraq war resolution without a single Democratic vote. And then when they passed Social Security privatization via reconciliation, it was even more amazing.

    All those things the Republicans did in 01-08 were done with the Democrats standing in front screaming now. What amazing decade the 00s were.

  • Chicken George||

    Maybe that should be rephrased to say "at least the Republicans are a compentent opposition."

  • ||

    There is no magic to it. The Iraq war and the Patriot Act were supported at the time by a majority of the public. So, the Republicans had no problems getting Dem votes and passing them. Obamacare is not popular. If it were, a Republicans would have voted for it and it would have been law last summer. The Obama comes up with a policy that is supported by a majority of the country, is the day he will get something done.

  • MNG||

    Even if it were supported by a majority of the nation the current Senate structure could keep it from being passed.

    It should have been evident to anyone watching the 08 election returns that Obama was going to face stiff opposition. States he lost he lost solidly, the reps there are expected to work against him or lose their seats.

  • ||

    If it were popular, the Republicans would face a political price for stopping it. That would have caused at least a few of them, and that is all they needed, to vote for it.

  • MNG||

    Any Republican in those states would pay a political price for working with Obama: they'd lose their seats.

    Go back and look at the states he lost. Many were in double digits. He was very much disliked by certain locations of the country, and the reps opposing him are mostly from those areas. It's not rocket science...

  • ||

    But Obamacare is not just unpopular in those states. It is unpopular all over the country. It is unpopular in places like Ohio and Virginia where Obama won in 2008. Obama was supposed to usher in a perminant re-alignment. Instead, thanks to letting Pelosi write his health plan and being totally out of touch with the country on the economy, he has made Republicans competitive in places where they hadn't been.

  • MNG||

    They did pass a few things via reconciliation, didn't they?

  • ||

    Yes, and many of those votes came with Democratic support. And they were of a completely different kind than this. If they had passed something like the Iraq war resolution on a party line vote via reconciliation, you would have a point.

  • MNG||

    Didn't the Bush tax cuts go through that process? That was his number one domestic item at the time...

  • sage||

    Yes they did. I've been discussing that on a Seattle Times thread.

  • ||

    With a ton of Democratic votes. And cutting taxes is hardly re-organizing 1/6th of the economy. Seriously, are you so convinced that the state owns everything that you think cutting taxes is the same as socializing medicine and fucking with people's madicare?

  • sage||

    Calm down, John. I was just answering MNG's question. I like tax cuts. I hate Obamacare.

  • MNG||

    Well of course you agree with one and not the other. But they are similar in that they are huge, prominent items on each administration's domestic agenda.

    And they both are going in through reconciliation. Good for the goose...

  • ||

    That is just stupid and you know it. Further, even if it were true, and it is not, the tax cuts had bi-partisan support, which this doesn't.

    Admit it MNG, Pelosi could just summarily execute the minority and you would be on here defending it. Nothing the Democratic Congress does is objectionable in your view.

  • ||

    MNG, you truly remind me of the poor dope in a Russian fable where he was envious of his neighbor's goat, as the dolt was too poor to afford one. He came across a djinn who gave him one wish. Being of the vengeful and jealous type, instead of wishing for his own goat, he wished for his neighbor's to die so neither would have a goat.

    I used to think you were reasonable at times, but I'm convinced you are of the passive/aggressive vindictive variety.

  • The Gobbler||

    That's why I just politely say hello to the guy and then move on.

  • steve||

    Remember, the Repubs controlled the house and senate until '06, which helped the votes.

  • The Village Guy||

    There's not a DIME'S worth of difference between the Donkeys and the Elephants. Not a DIME'S worth.

    NAL, is that you calling me?

  • ||

    How do I let them know because of the unfreezing process, I have no inner monologue? I hope I didn't just say that all out loud just now.......

  • Slut Bunwalla||

    Perfect.

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  • ||

    If they can ignore section 8 with impunity - what makes you think they care about section 7?

  • ||

    Section 7 is a bit more cut and dry.

  • Congressman||

    Wait a minute, I want to tack on a rider to that bill: $30 million of taxayer money to support the perverted arts.

  • ||

    (in unison) Nay.

  • ev||

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  • Chicken George||

    Rielle?

  • ||

    "I've said before and I'll say it again: Democracy just doesn't work."

  • TickleStick||

  • ||

    The House's healthcare vote could be delayed until as late as Easter, House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Tuesday.

    Clyburn, in an interview with McClatchy Newspapers, said it is possible that the House vote on healthcare reform could take place long past the vote Democratic leaders had hoped for this week.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-.....er-holiday

    If it doesn't happen by Easter, it won't happen.

  • ||

    The Easter Bunny died for our sins.

  • Pip||

    The healthcare bill was born on Christmas Eve and now hopes to be reserected on Easter.

    That is SO Obama.

  • ||

    +20

  • Polynikes||

    Hey- what happened to the Americans deserve a straight up or down vote meme?

    Oh, that was LAST week...

  • ||

    Does anyone know if the tax on medical devices is still in the bill? When I heard about the 40% tax on (e.g.) powered wheelchairs, I figured that alone would kill the bill in public opinion, but I haven't heard about it recently. And there's no way I'm going to read 2700 pages (or whatever) to look for it.

  • ||

    Meanwhile back at the ranch,

    March 16 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. employers won’t hire enough workers this year to lower the jobless rate much below the level of 9.7 percent reached in February, three Obama administration economic officials said today.

    "The proportion of Americans who can’t find work is likely to “remain elevated for an extended period,” Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner, White House budget director Peter Orszag and Christina Romer, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers, said in a joint statement. The officials said unemployment may even rise “slightly” over the next few months as discouraged workers start job-hunting again."

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/.....aMufrB.FA0

    The standard line from the liberal trolls over at Althouse is that the economy is sure to turn around soon. And that Obama is a shoo in for re-election in 2012 because Sarah Palin is crazy and Mitt Romney is a Mormon or some such.

  • MNG||

    Palin is more than we as Democrats can hope for...Romney is someone we as Americans do not deserve...If ever there was a more craven, pandering, spineless politician than flip flopper Romney I don't know about it.

  • Barack Obama||

    Hello. I don't believe you know of me.

  • MNG||

    Obama doesn't come even remotely close to Romney level pandering. It's not some clever dissembling, that guy has actually explicitly changed his position 180 on nearly every hot button issue of the day depending on the geographical size of the office he is seeking.

  • MNG||

    Here is the best site out there detailing Romney's amazingly numerous and brazen flip flops.

    http://online.logcabin.org/mitt-romneys-flip-flops.html

    Hat tip to Gilbert Martin, regular reader of that site.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    You're the one citing it - not me.

    LOL

  • ||

    Obama doesn't come even remotely close to Romney level pandering.

    See, I would anoint Obama as the reigning world champion of pandering and flip-flops.

    He pandered like a bear to the lefty lib establishment.

    He has flipped every flop from his campaign to now.

    Who could have done more? How could anyone do more pandering and flip-flopping without violating the laws of physics?

  • MNG||

    Look at the link. Nothing Obama has done comes close to that. If you think you can match it, please do.

  • ||

    Obama never flip flops. That is why we got out of Iraq and got on the "right side of the most important decision of his generation, within six months of him getting in office. That is also why we stopped raiding medical marijuana shops, indefinite detention, closed GUITO and conducting rendition.

    Jesus MNG, you really know how to blow smoke of people's asses.

  • MNG||

    Did I say he never flip flops?

    No, I said he does not reach Romney's level.

    And he doesn't.

    It must be interesting to see the world as you do John, so at variance at what is actually there...

  • ||

    It is just a value judgment on your part. You think he is no worse than Romney because you can't contemplate what a phony he has turned out to be.

  • MNG||

    Look, match the link then if it is so obvious.

  • ||

    Look. I can't stand Romney. Don't confuse me for a defender of his. But, if the best you can say about Obama is "he is no worse than Romney", that is pretty sorry. And moreover, Romney hasn't been President, so whatever his flip flops, they are no where near as serious or as damage inducing as Obama's.

  • ||

    I am no fan of Romney. But anyone who helped sell the country on Obama has no right to say one word about what the country does and does not deserve. Your side needs to worry about the 10 years of groveling and apologizing for Obama that is ahead and not worry about who the Republicans nominate. And if we still have 9+% unemployment, and even the Whitehouse is admitting we probably will, the Republicans will be able to run a well spoken duck and win in 2012.

  • MNG||

    John
    You really have to stop assuming things about me. Look, taking your axioms and assumptions from right-wing media outlets keeps putting you into a bad place my friend.

    I opposed Obama during the entire primary season and up to the election. I said he was a terrible choice for the Dems, that he would be unlikely to win, that he was from a corrupt city, that he did not have near the experience, and that more moderate candidates (such as Warner and Richards whom I campaigned for and lauded here on H&R) etc. I actively worked to defeat Obama during the primaries and proudly cast my vote for someone else.

    Now I prefered him over McCain. As I said many times here it was a very difficult choice as I respect McCain much more. I voted to turn out the GOP which had engaged in insanity after the eight year head trip of being in power. I have nothing to apologize.

    How recent of a H&R'er are you?

  • ||

    Good for you. But the Democrats are going to spend years trying to regain people's trust after this debacle.

  • Dead Congress Walking ||

    November is going to be so cool to witness.

  • ||

    And all this maneuvering in the House still doesn't solve the problem of what happens to the amendment bill (please, Pete, don't play along with the fraud by calling it the "reconciliation bill") in the Senate.

    I'm guessing a solid majority of Senators are secretly hoping and praying that this whole thing dies in the House, so they don't get another turn on the HCR griddle.

  • ||

    Caption:

    "Assume a can opener."

  • TXLimey||

    I think that a straight up or down vote on this bill wouldn't properly express Pelosi's utter contempt for the American electorate. She's not content to just fuck us up the ass - she wants to use a sandpaper condom to do to it.

  • CrackertyAssCracker||

    Is there any chance the SCOTUS would call BS on a "law" that wasn't actually voted on by a majority of the house?

    Not that I'm optimistic. They still haven't figured out that "interstate" and "commerce" are preconditions for "Interstate Commerce", so I don't know why the fuck we even have those worthless sacks of shit around for anything.

  • MNG||

    Presentment Clause?

  • Gilbert Martin||

    I just heard a soundbite of Obama at one of his health care rallies making an absurd claim that some eployer provided health insurance premiums could drop by 3,000% under his plan.

    I'm sure the MSM lapdogs will completely ignore (or exucse) this particular peice of lunacy.

    If Bush had said something like that when he was Prez, they would be hee-hawng about for months.

  • MNG||

    Yes Gilbert, "they" are all out to get you.

  • TickleStick||

    What Gobbler said.

  • MNG||

    What, you mean "Hey mom, can you two keep it down up there?"

  • TickleStick||

    huh?

  • MNG||

    That's what Gobby said. He says it pretty much every night.

  • J_L_B||

    Yes the media is liberal and seeks to push that agenda, but first and foremost they love any controversy that will spew out ratings for them. Since the media had framed Bush as a dumbass, they could use any common misstatement as furtherance of that ratings-rich narrative. Obama has been labeled a socialist and misstatements don't help to create the controversy they seek, but anything such as the Wright, Bill Ayers, or the Obama bows will. The bias comes in where it's much harder for democrats to cause controversy than Republicans.

    If the definition of paranoia is believing they are all out to get you, then what would the term be if you were out to get all of them?

  • ||

    He really said "by 3000%"? Maybe that's only in the 57th state. In any case I want to see that on YouTube.

  • wingnutx||

  • ||

    Un-frickin'-believable. And it got applause! I knew lots of liberals were math-challenged, but this takes the cake.

  • Zeb||

    That is just a mistake or severe misunderstanding of what "drop by 3000%" means. Its not lunacy. It doesn't even mean anything.

  • ||

    No it doesn't. Obama is just not very bright and does very poorly when he isn't fed the words to say. But, no one can mention that since it would be racist.

  • MNG||

    Outrageous. How did he graduate Harvard Law School if he were not very bright? Didn't you go law school? Was it for the stupid?

    Can't you disagree with someone without attacking their integrity or intelligence?

  • ||

    Sorry. He has had too many gaffes. He is just not that quick on his feet. And he has never released his grades at Columbia. So, I don't know that he didn't get into Harvard as an affirmative action baby. There are doofuses (affirmative action babies, celebrity full pays, and legacies) who go to Harvard. It is not that he is stupid. Public speaking is hard. It is more that he is in no way as intelligent as he is claimed to be.

  • ||

    So, I don't know that he didn't get into Harvard as an affirmative action baby. There are doofuses (affirmative action babies, celebrity full pays, and legacies) who go to Harvard.

    Speaking as someone who knew people in the Harvard Law admissions office in 1987, I can assure you that there were no legacies and no celebrity full-pays there. Hell, Harvard Law turned down the ultimate celebrity legacy - JFK Jr.

    Affirmative action - hard to say. I'm sure there was a little, but probably not that much.

    Grading was anonymous, so he came by those honestly, at least.

    He's a smart guy, but he's an academic red diaper lefty-lib with the morals of a Daly machine acolyte, which isn't a good recipe for an executive.

  • ||

    Come to think of it, he hasn't released much of anything regarding his grades and collegiate performance. Even W. Bush released his grades from Yale.

    It's been done to death that Bush was a terrible public speaker, but for the most part his conviction in his beliefs came through. Obama, the ever cool and pragmatic (reputedly) is a great teleprompter reader, but somehow this isn't transferring into his speeches.

    Is he intelligent, yeah he is. But a duplicitous and an exceptionally dishonest intelligent person does not a great leader make.

  • Slut Bunwalla||

    So...what, the insurance company would be paying its customers to use its coverage? Maybe this isn't such a bad plan after all...

  • ||

    To hell with that internet riches scheme I was pursuing...I'm going to hire me some employees, get the insurance reduction of 3000%, and live large with pools and babes and shit.

  • ||

    Obama could have had health care reform last summer if he would have kissed Susan Collins and Olympia Snow's asses. Think about what kind of government run nightmare those to would sign up for. But even that wasn't good enough for him. But remember Obama is a centrist, who just happens to be too far left for even the most RINO of RINOs.

  • TickleStick||

    Nancy Pelosi lines up the kiddie human shields.

    http://michellemalkin.com/2010.....n-shields/

  • The Gobbler||

    Remember the 11-year-old boy they used as a prop yesterday? The one whose mother has high blood pressure and no insurance? She's as fat as a fucking walrus:

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/03.....-lobbyist/

  • The Gobbler||

    From the Comments:

    Too late for that one. Beck already exposed this scam. She had medical treatment. All she needed in fact. She was qualified for medicaid and never used it. Her mother is a member of one of Obama’s “community” offshoots of ACORN and George Soros’ group paid for her trip to DC.

    More fraud from the Marxsist.

  • Wally||

    She's as fat as a fucking walrus:
    I resent that.
    I work hard for my diet of mollusks,corals, tube worms, crustaceans and the occasional seal or seabird.That fat bitch is eatin' on your dime!

  • ||

    She's as fat as a fucking walrus

    Color me shocked, since high blood pressure is very highly correlated with obesity and a sedentary lifestyle.

    She was qualified for medicaid and never used it.

    So now the pitch is that we have to expand our government healthcare programs because people aren't using the ones we have?

  • SIV||

    Or they are already using it and want the program expanded to cover more wealthy unfortunates. Remember the Frost family, on SCHIP,with 2 grad degrees, 4 kids in a 20k a year private school, nearly a million in real estate (home and commercial) 3 late-model luxury truck/suvs and a wedding announcement in the NYTs?

  • ||

    This is what we get when a bunch of morons elect a president who's most impressive thing on his resume is being a Chicago street agitator.

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