Reason Writers Around Town: Shikha Dalmia on the Lou Dobbs Option

Of the many perverse, twisted things in the health care monstrosity otherwise called reform, writes Shikha Dalmia in here latest Forbes column, its treatment of illegal immigrants might be the worst. If the Senate has its way, undocumented aliens will be barred from using their own money to buy health coverage from the proposed insurance exchange. This means, Dalmia notes, that at the same time the government will tell Americans how they must spend their money, thanks to the individual mandate, it will tell undocumented aliens where they can't spend theirs. This should be deeply troubling to civil libertarians. "Government intrusiveness combined with government discrimination is not a formula for social justice," she writes. It will make the progressive goal of universal coverage unattainable by permanently locking out a big chunk of the uninsured population from the health care market. If this is not a deal breaker for progressives, what is?

Read all about it here.

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  • BakedPenguin||

    In a sick way, I almost wish Warty hadn't scared off Lonewacko just so I could see what fucked-up bullshit the Wacko would come up with on this.

  • Warty||

    DEY TUK MUH COMMENTS

  • Warty||

  • ||

    What a whiny little bitch he is. Seriously. Petulant racist 9-year-old glue huffer.

  • ||

    I'd still like to know the story behind is banishment. Maybe he photoshopped a picture of Matt to remove the glasses and put a cowboy hat on him and make him 10 years younger.

  • Warty||

    Matt is Max Hardcore? It explains a lot, really.

  • ||

    SF-

    Where is thy absolutist, steadfast, defense of liberty even if it means defending the right of the likes of Mr. 24 Dothead?

  • poo - tee - weet||

    Central England Temperatures: Do They Provide Evidence That Current Global Warming Scare Is Totally Blown Out of Proportion?

    Central England Temperatures and Global CO2 Emissions: from 1659 - 2009:

    http://www.c3headlines.com/2010/01/cet-temperatures.html

  • DJF||

    Maybe if Shikha Dalmia realized that they were not “undocumented aliens” but “illegal aliens” who are not suppose to be in the USA let alone buying taxpayer subsidized insurance then she would understand

  • BakedPenguin||

    Those are some impressive reading skills you got there, DJF.

    ...its treatment of illegal immigrants might be the worst. If the Senate has its way, undocumented aliens will be barred from using their own money to buy health coverage from the proposed insurance exchange.

    You must be a public school teacher.

  • Joe M||

    Is this proposed exchange going to be composed of subsidized insurance?

  • ||

    No. Subsidies accrue to the buyer, not the insurance.

    Make illegal immigrants -- hell, make all immigrants -- ineligible for subsidies.

  • PIRS||

    MIkeP. I have a better idea. Make all government subsidies to anyone for any reason illegal.

  • ||

    Yes, that would work too.

  • DJF||

    “””You must be a public school teacher.”””

    You must be someone who does not understand “Heath Care Reform” since it includes taxpayer subsidies for the poor and since many of the poor are illegals that includes them. What do you think the “Cadillac Tax is about?

    Also you must not understand that they are here illegally and so are not legally allowed to do anything in this country except leave

  • ||

    they are here illegally and so are not legally allowed to do anything

    Tautology is fun!

  • ||

    they are here illegally and so are not legally allowed to do anything in this country except leave

    Title and chapter please?

  • ||

    Those are some impressive reading skills you got there, BakedPenguin, since Dalmia uses the incorrect but PC term "undocumented" and the blurb you copied wasn't even in the article.

    You must be a public school flunkout.

  • ||

    wait, wait, wait, I thought this whole public option bullshit was supposed to be market competitive. Subsidies, motherfucking subsidies, ok where do I join the angry mob with the pitchforks and torches.

  • Old Mexican||

    If the Senate has its way, undocumented aliens will be barred from using their own money to buy health coverage from the proposed insurance exchange. This means, Dalmia notes, that at the same time the government will tell Americans how they must spend their money, thanks to the individual mandate, it will tell undocumented aliens where they can't spend theirs.

    Cue in Immigration Reform to fix this, aaaaannd . . .

  • PIRS||

    aaaaannd . . . voila! More voters for Obama in 2012!

  • Old Mexican||

    Re: PIRS,

    Bingo!

  • Eric||

    I'm in favor of a much more open immigration policy, for people of all countries.

    However, I think Illegal immigrants should first return to their home country, then apply for the same process as everyone else.

  • Old Mexican||

    However, I think Illegal immigrants should first return to their home country, then apply for the same process as everyone else.

    Eric, they would do that if it weren't for the fact that many already have some assets in the US.

  • LarryA||

    And they thought there was a chance in hell that applying to the INS would do any good.

  • ||

    Since "the same process as everyone else" accepts only 1% of the number of illegal immigrants who enter every year, I find your suggestion disingenuous.

  • DJF||

    More then 1 million people were naturalized in the USA in 2008, are you claiming that there are 100 million illegals in the USA?

  • ||

    I am claiming that those who enter illegally almost never qualify for the visas offered to the 1 million legal immigrants.

    The quota for those not covered by other visas is 5,000. That's 1% of 500,000 illegal immigrants per year.

  • PIRS||

    A compromise in the world of politics is a bill that pisses off as many people as possible and provides the worst of all possible options. They think they can make the public less angry by showing them they listen to both the Marxists and the Xenophobes. Thanks Senators!

  • ||

    So, in a health care bill premised on resolving the "cost shift" from uninsured patients to paying patients, they are forcing people to be uninsured.

    Genius. Sheer genius. Its as if they sit around in conference and tell themselves "There's bound to be a way to make this worse. C'mon, people, think!"

  • Scott66||

    At this moment in time the democrats have to hit certain cost marks for the CBO report to be favorable. Since illegals would be heavily subsidized they would drive the cost up, so they get cut out for now.

    Once this passes the democrats will fix the situation with immigration reform which is coming next. This will have the added benefit of allowing the democrats to emphasize the issue at that time to portray the repubs as racist and pandering to the hispanic population.

  • ||

    No, no. You guys don't get it. This is supposed to make illegal immigrants go home! It's supposed to solve the illegal immigrant 'problem' by making it so expensive to get medical care (or actually impossible) that the wetbacks will leave and get dried.
    Of course, the chances of that happening are rather small. It's just going to lead to a black market in medical care. Which, come to think about it, might not be such a bad idea.
    Just so you understand, this is presented in the same tone as R C Dean--I really don't think it's a good idea (some folks on these lists tend to be rather literal-minded and miss sarcasm, litotes....)

  • PIRS||

    If ObamaCare passes in any form we will have ablack market in medical care anyway.

  • Dr. Shadey||

    Obamacare will force women to have back-alley appendectomies.

    Why does Obama hate women? Oh yeah, because Michelle is is wife.

  • PIRS||

    And why does he hate Canadians? Where are Canadians supposed to go for their medical care?

  • ||

    Honestly, she is so uncharismatic it's amazing. She's like a female version of Matt Damon. MATT DAMON

  • TickleStick||

    I thought Damon was charismatic in his role as the genius janitor when he told off the student in the bar.

  • Warty||

    Charlie: I'll totally pull a Good Will Hunting on those kids and that'll put them in their place.
    Mac: How you gonna do that?
    Charlie: Well, you've seen the movie right?
    Mac: Yeah.
    Charlie: So all I gotta do is, I'll ask them some big shot, like math or science, history-type college question aand that will totally stump them by knowing a lot more about the answer than they do.
    Mac: In that movie, Matt Damon played a genius janitor, you're just a janitor.
    Charlie: Right, you stumped me with that one.

  • ||

    Warty, it's those bison fingers of yours that make you look like Michelle Obama.

  • Warty||

    I’m active, I’m gesturing with my hands.

  • ||

    WILL
    Why shouldn't I work for the NSA? That's a tough one.
    But I'll take a shot. Say I'm working at the NSA, and
    somebody puts a code on my desk, somethin' no one else
    can break. Maybe I take a shot at it and maybe I break
    it. And I'm real happy with myself, cus' I did my job
    well. But maybe that code was the location of some
    rebel army in...

    Sean's Office

    WILL
    ...North Africa or the Middle East and once they have
    that location, they bomb the village where the rebels are
    hiding... Fifteen hundred people that I never met, never
    had no problem with get killed. Now the politicians are
    sayin', "Oh, Send in the marines to secure the area" cus'
    they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there,
    gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number
    got called, cus' they were off pullin' a tour in the National
    Guard. It'll be some kid from Southie over there takin'
    shrapnel in the ass. He comes back to find that the plant
    he used to work at got exported to the country he just
    got back from. And the guy who put the shrapnel in his
    ass got his old job, cus' he'll work for fifteen cents a day
    and no bathroom breaks. Meanwhile he realizes the only
    reason he was over there in the first place was so that
    we could install a government that would sell us oil at a
    good price. And of course the oil companies used the
    little skirmish over there to scare up domestic oil prices.
    A cute little ancillary benefit for them but it ain't
    helping my buddy at two-fifty a gallon. They're takin'
    their sweet time bringin' the oil back, of course, maybe
    even took the liberty of hiring an alcoholic skipper who
    likes to drink martinis and fuckin' play slalom with the
    icebergs, it ain't too long 'til he hits one, spills the oil
    and kills all the sea life in the North Atlantic. So now
    my buddy's out of work. He can't afford to drive, so
    he's walking to the fuckin' job interviews, which sucks
    because the shrapnel in his ass is givin' him chronic
    hemorrhoids. And meanwhile he's starvin' cus' every
    time he tries to get a bite to eat the only blue plate
    special they're servin' is North Atlantic scrod with
    Quaker State. So what did I think? I'm holdin' out for
    somethin' better. I figure fuck it, while I'm at it why not
    just shoot my buddy, take his job, give it to his sworn
    enemy, hike up gas prices, bomb a village, club a baby
    seal, hit the hash pipe and join the National Guard? I
    could be elected President.

  • Slippery Wax||

    Although the dick towel is a strong idea, kitten mittens proved charlie is a genius.

    That and Night Man.

  • ||

    Greatest. Musical. Ever.

  • ||

    The greatest musical ever was The Blues Brothers.

  • The Libertarian Guy||

    I'd agree, ProL, if it were tied for first place with the original version of The Producers.

    Otherwise, musicals can pre-suck my genital situation.

  • highnumber||

    I thought the best musical ever was "Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said."

  • ||

    Too soon, highnumber, too soon.

  • ||

    Most immigrants can point you to low-cost black market denists and doctors. You don't need one of those fancy, clean offices to get your teeth cleaned. A garage will do.

  • PIRS||

    Sorry but I have to ask - are you really a Coyote? Not that there is anything wrong with that ....

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    Considering I have a fair number of friends (native US citizens) who have learned they can get pricey dental and medical treatments in Mexico cheap, you have to wonder why the immigrants would be interested in getting medical care here.

  • PIRS||

    Because travel to Mexico can be expensive. Especially if you had to pay a great deal of money to cross over to begin with.

  • Old Mexican||

    Immigrants would still find it cheaper to travel back to Mexico for dental work or operations. However, getting back IN to the US would pose a problem . . .

  • PIRS||

    Exactly. Did you ever see the film La Frontera? Great film for understanding what the journey is like and what life is like after crossing over.

  • Old Mexican||

    I haven't seen it, but I can tell you that in some ports, even with a perfectly valid visa, US Border officials look at you as if you crawled out from under a rock.

  • ||

    They're not undocumented aliens. They're undocumented democrats.

  • PIRS||

    Only because the modern Republican Party has chosen to alienate them.

  • Jennifer||

    Oooh, clever! Have the government subsidize necessities whether we want them to or not, so they can justify deciding who does or does not deserve access to such subsidized goodies!

    Soon as the government decides we all have a right to "free" food, we can therefore make it against the law for illegal immigrants to eat.

  • PIRS||

    Or make it illegal for anyone who is not a member of the party in charge to eat.

  • ||

    This is fucked up on so many levels, it is hard to even know where to begin. There is a flip side of this. That is that illegals will be able to dodge out of the system all together and avoid the "pay to breath tax" that is mandated insurance coverage. If you are a young and healthy person unlikely to get sick and subject to bullshit community pricing of health insurance, you are better off as an illegal than you are as a citizen.

  • Hobo Chang Ba||

    Except for the fact that many "undocumented workers" do pay income
    taxes every year. My wife is going through the legal process but as of now would be classified as "illegal" despite having come here legally, paid taxes every year and made every effort to remain within the bounds of the law barring going home.

    Also, if every illegal immigrant paid income taxes, we'd probably lose a good deal of money, as most would not make enough to pay anything, but would qualify for tax credits.

  • ||

    So health care reform will mean only outlaws are exempt from this boondoggle, quick how do I become an illegal.

  • TickleStick||

    "pay to breath tax"

    "Breath Tax". I like that. Rhymes with Death Tax.

  • Barack Obama||

    Tax 'em from first breath to last breath. This is gonna be great!

  • Tony and Chad||

    sigh He's sooooooo dreamy!!! WE LOVE YOU, DEAR LEADER!!! WE WANT YOU TO BE OUR BABY-DADDY!!!

  • .||

    Yeah, but it's supposed to be breathe (no thanks to John's damn spelling) and breathe doesn't rhyme with death.

  • ||

    The man's an artist - you wouldn't understand

  • LarryA||

    So now instead of coming here to pick fruit or plant trees, undocumented aliens will be working as doctors and nurses?

    Hope and change indeed.

  • Yvonne||

    great post

  • ||

    "undocumented aliens will be barred from using their own money to buy health coverage from the proposed insurance exchange."

    That's screwed up, but not as much as at first glance, because the whole BS of 'reform' is an Orwellian turning of 'insurance' into *welfare* while keeping the former label.

    The assholes could have implemented sensible market-oriented reforms which would have made insurance more competitive for those who have it, and simultaneously but separately worked on some gaps in the 'safety net'.

    But no, greedy mofo's wanted to grab it *all* and mash it up.

  • ||

    Other stupidity -- blocking them from purchasing the subsidized insurance does NOT stop them from purchasing healthcare service itself.

  • ||

    Oops -- I meant 'stupidity' about getting worked up too much about this (I was *not* saying it was stupid to let them straight-up pay directly for service.)

  • MJ||

    "Rather it is the cold "Know Nothing" calculation that making life miserable for undocumented aliens will drive them to the exit."

    I think it's rather a notion of fair play that people who are breaking the rules by even veing in this country do not have a right to the services provided. Secondly, illegals will not be prevented by law form seeking healthcare or even insurance coverage (the fact that may be terribly expensive is not the same as being prohibited). Thirdly, you are assuming that people who are breaking the law by being in this country are not going to scam their way onto the regular insurance rolls?

    I object to the Dem's health reform bill on just about all levels, but how it will make illegal alien's lives more difficult is at the bottom of my list of concerns about it.

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