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Green Jobs! Net Neutrality! Reinvestigate 9/11!
Via Instapundit, it seems that Obama's "green jobs czar," a goofy radical named Van Jones, is also a 9/11 truther. Terrific.
From the Washington Times:
Mr. Jones signed a statement for 911Truth.org in 2004 demanding an investigation into what the Bush Administration may have done that “deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.”
His name is listed with 99 other prominent signatories supporting such an investigation on the 911Truth.org website, including Code Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodi Evans, comedienne Janeane Garofalo, Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and others. He's identified as the executive director for the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights on the statement, which he founded before going to the White House. The statement is available here. Mr. Jones is number 46.
The only surprise here is that, according to the 911Truth website, Richie Havens is also a truther. For a taste of Jones's politics (spoiler: not a fan of capitalism, but a huge fan of net neutrality), check out this speech from 2007.
|9.3.09 @ 5:14PM|#
Holy shit. How does Obama's team miss this?
I bet he's really good at MAKIN' JOBS though.
Joe M|9.3.09 @ 5:15PM|#
Van Jones is a lunatic fringer. It's actually embarrassing that he's an appointee.
Cal Lipigian|9.3.09 @ 5:18PM|#
If his job description is to grow the economy by imposing massive new costs for businesses, maybe it's better that he is not too grounded in reality?
CaptainSmartass|9.3.09 @ 5:26PM|#
Kevin, you're assuming two things: that Team Obama even looks into the backgrounds of their czars; and that they would care about it if they did find this on their own.
Jeff P|9.3.09 @ 5:32PM|#
About two weeks ago I overheard someone say they saw a porn film
which had, in most scenes, a TV somewhere in the background playing
clips from a number of truther videos, with the audio
cranked.
I have found no evidence of the existence of this, but I think
we've found the next form of libertarian propaganda.
Tony|9.3.09 @ 5:38PM|#
Oh no! A goofball conspiracy theory that's about 100 times more plausible than what comes from Glenn Beck's lips every day of the week!
|9.3.09 @ 5:43PM|#
But remember it is the people who show up to ask their
Representatives quesitons about socialized medicine who are the
nuts.
If Tony is a Truther, his performance art has officially jumped the
shark. His show needs to be cancelled like Lefiti's and Chad's
were.
|9.3.09 @ 5:43PM|#
Did we go to the Moon?
Ask Buzz Aldrin. He'll deck you in the chops.
I love that footage.
|9.3.09 @ 5:44PM|#
"Did we go to the Moon?"
Yes but only to dispose of the evidence of the rightwing conspiracy
that killed Kennedy.
|9.3.09 @ 5:47PM|#
Tony's not a Truther. He is obsessed with Masons. They refused
him, you see.
"Yes, well, of
course, this is just the sort blinkered philistine pig ignorance
I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage. You sit there on
your loathsome, spotty behinds squeezing blackheads, not caring a
tinker's cuss about the struggling artist. (shouting) You
excrement! You lousy hypocritical whining toadies with your lousy
colour TV sets and your Tony Jacklin golf clubs and your bleeding
masonic handshakes! You wouldn't let me join, would you, you
blackballing bastards. Well I wouldn't become a freemason now if
you went down on your lousy, stinking, purulent knees and begged
me!"
Doesn't that sound like Tony?
JB|9.3.09 @ 5:47PM|#
Maybe the Republicans should try to change the Constitution so
they can run a retarded monkey in 2012.
I would vote for it.
hammeredHead|9.3.09 @ 5:48PM|#
I have it under good authority from unnamed sources that Obama's
true birth certificate was stored in a vault under the north tower
of the World Trade Center complex.
Yes, I am proud to say that I am a Trirther.
Tony|9.3.09 @ 5:48PM|#
No I'm certainly not a truther. But Bush had countless
creationists in his government so I say we give this guy a
pass.
(Also, it's not against the law to be a communist, which is what a
lot of Beckies seem to think in their McCarthyism for Dummies
shtick.)
oh no not this again|9.3.09 @ 5:49PM|#
I overheard Glenn Beck talking about this awhile back, don't
remember which day it was. The tv was on in the background
somewhere, but i stopped and listened because someone on TV was
screaming about commie radical etc etc. And i thought to myself,
how long before this is on Reason under a header by M. moynihan.
(shakes head)
Your link for today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkrW22u7SwU&feature=channel_page
You must be so proud of yourselves, all you freedom loving people
worried about government healthcare, and who think all the tea guys
are about peace and love.
Anti|9.3.09 @ 5:54PM|#
@Tony
Of course it's not illegal to be a communist you idiot. But if the
goal is to produce jobs, whether they be "green" or some other
color, may require some capitalist thought. Consider me shocked a
communist wouldn't think this way.
|9.3.09 @ 5:55PM|#
You know, that's a good question. Is a Creationist worse than a
conspiracy nut? I'm not sure. I've known some Creationists who
seemed otherwise normal. But the conspiracy nuts always seem, well,
nutty. Neither is right about the subject of focus, of
course.
I'd love to be a Mason. Or, better yet, an initiate in the
Eleusinian Mysteries. Secret handshakes, global dominion--what's
not to love?
Oh no not this again|9.3.09 @ 5:56PM|#
Maybe the Republicans should try to change the Constitution
so they can run a retarded monkey in 2012.
I would vote for it.
Of course you would JB, of course you would, right after you
pressured it to have sex with you for the umpteenth time.
|9.3.09 @ 5:57PM|#
Yes, everyone who disapproves of socializing a major economic
sector is a friggin' loon. Who is doing all the backpedaling, hmmm?
And why do so if those objecting are just an insane fringe?
Shit is coming apart, and I'm eating some popcorn while it
happens.
PantsFan|9.3.09 @ 5:59PM|#
yesterday it was Bush III, this morning it was Nixon. Now you
say it looks like Carter. This is just a sad parody of
itself.
Stop engaging the trolls.
Mike M.|9.3.09 @ 6:02PM|#
Holy shit. How does Obama's team miss this?
Umm, earth to Kevin, they didn't miss it.
Obama has spent practically his entire f*cking adult life hanging
around with people like Van Jones. Wake up, dude.
EJM|9.3.09 @ 6:21PM|#
How does Obama's team miss this?
Perhaps they wanted to spend as much time as possible on
vetting Paul Farmer.
|9.3.09 @ 6:24PM|#
But Bush had countless creationists in his government so I
say we give this guy a pass.
But, but, but, BUSH DID IT TOO!
Tony doesn't seem to realize that argument doesn't work with
libertarians.
24AheadDotCom|9.3.09 @ 6:27PM|#
Now, for something you won't read in Reason,
see this.
P.S. An "AntiTruther" must by definition be someone who thinks
we've been told the full and complete truth about the event. Now,
that's crazy.
|9.3.09 @ 6:29PM|#
Doesn't Obama believe God created the universe? Or was that just to get the "ignorant Christian" vote?
|9.3.09 @ 6:34PM|#
Oh no! A goofball conspiracy theory that's about 100 times
more plausible than what comes from Glenn Beck's lips every day of
the week!
Everyday of the week?
Name one.
|9.3.09 @ 6:34PM|#
I'd love to be a Mason. Or, better yet, an initiate in the
Eleusinian Mysteries. Secret handshakes, global dominion--what's
not to love?
Bah! While Masons are more
important than the Council on
Foreign Relations, we Trilateralists
are the cream of the Illuminati crop.
|9.3.09 @ 6:40PM|#
I just posted this in another thread, so forgive the
duplication, but it seems even more apropos here:
Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well-known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with his wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartass!
MattXIV|9.3.09 @ 6:48PM|#
Let me see if I'm getting this right:
Glenn Beck indulges in nutty partisan conspiracy theorizing and
should be held up for ridicule because of it, so it's ok that Obama
appointed a guy that that indulges in nutty partisan conspiracy
theorizing.
That's not just an non sequitur, it's like an anti-sequitur or
something.
Tony|9.3.09 @ 7:11PM|#
Consider me shocked a communist wouldn't think this way.
I dunno communism seems to be a very efficient way to create jobs,
no?
hmm|9.3.09 @ 7:24PM|#
This is the problem with the czar positions. they are vetted by
the white house and not the FBI and congress. I've read that there
are no FBI checks on most of the czars that are not Congressionally
appointed.
There's a reason your life and asshole have to be water tight when
you apply for government jobs. This guy is it.
The real question is how fucking stupid does the Obama
administration think the American public is to try and pull shit
like this?
|9.3.09 @ 7:34PM|#
Why is it inherently insane to even consider that a bunch of
torture loving neo-cons (the PNAC folks -- who adamantly believe
that the ends justify the means when it comes to expanding the
American empire -- that also believe America needs to be more
militarized and that we need "to increase defense spending
significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities
today and modernize our armed forces for the future") who were just
itching to invade Iraq would do nothing to prevent a terrorist
attack they knew might happen if it would give them a pretext for
invading soon after they took control of the government?
Our intelligence agencies produced a Presidential Daily Brefing
Titled "Osama Bin Laden determined to attack the US. Also the FAA
had
considered the possibility that terrorists would hijack a plane
and use it as a weapon," and in 2001 it distributed a CD-ROM
presentation to airlines and airports that cited the possibility of
a suicide hijacking. Also, The 9/11 Commission reported that they
"have found no indication of any further discussion before
September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the
possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United
States."
Knowing all these facts why is it completely insane to even
consider that the torture loving, civil and human rights violating,
psychopathic regime that was in power during 9/11 might allow a few
thousand Americans to die (viewing them as collateral damage in the
GWOT) if that would give them the pretense to go to war that they
so desperately wanted?
I personally would like to believe that they (or anyone) wouldn't
be willing to do that. But these neo-cons have proved time and
again that they value human life so little that I don't think it's
crazy to wonder if they were complacent.
|9.3.09 @ 7:36PM|#
Creationists aren't nearly as weird as Truthers because they're
talking about something that happened thousands or millions of
years ago. I may not agree, but their position is semi-arguable.
Not Truthers, though. They're just believers in a half-assed
conspiracy theory.
It's roughly the difference between believing that aliens built the
pyramids versus believing they were in your backyard last
night.
Costanza|9.3.09 @ 7:38PM|#
Oh no! A goofball conspiracy theory that's about 100 times
more plausible than what comes from Glenn Beck's lips every day of
the week!
Everyday of the week?
Name one.
Tuesday.
/I'll see myself out
hmm|9.3.09 @ 7:57PM|#
See. ChicagoTom doesn't thing birthers are nuts. If the truthers aren't nuts then the birthers can't be nuts. Then again one group thinks the government intentionally killed 3000 people to start a war to get oil and one group just wants to see a piece of paper. So maybe they aren't so similar.
|9.3.09 @ 8:00PM|#
Tom, you just nuked the fridge with your trolling. You were doing pretty well, but supposedly giving credence to Trutherism? Overplayed, man. Overplayed.
MJ|9.3.09 @ 8:44PM|#
It's not surprising that a person, like Van Jones, who subscribes to a totalitarian ideology would buy into a conspiracy theory like the 9/11 Truthers. If you believe the government is omniscient and omnipotent (therefore your God), and if it does not prevent a horrible event like 9/11, then the government must have wanted it to happen. It helps when your political opponents hold the reins and you attribute the malevalence to them. It is a more comforting thought than the notion that government is a fallible human institution operating on incomplete information and subject to error. That government is not something to entrust all your hope and faith to.
NeoConz|9.3.09 @ 8:55PM|#
ChiComTom,
Bush would've stopped 9/11 if not for the total lack of
cooperation,or any transition at all stemming from Gore's failed
attempt to subvert democracy and steal an election.By the time they
sorted through the intelligence reports it was nearly 2003 and
everything left over from the Clinton regime said "Iraq has
WMDs!"
alan|9.3.09 @ 9:10PM|#
Via Instapundit, it seems that Obama's "green jobs czar," a
goofy radical named Van Jones, is also a 9/11 truther.
Terrific.
From the Washington Times:
Mr. Jones signed a statement for 911Truth.org in 2004 demanding an
investigation into what the Bush Administration may have done that
"deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for
war."
His name is listed with 99 other prominent signatories supporting
such an investigation on the 911Truth.org website, including Code
Pink co-founders Medea Benjamin and Jodi Evans, comedienne Janeane
Garofalo, Democratic Rep. Cynthia McKinney of Georgia and others.
He's identified as the executive director for the Ella Baker Center
for Human Rights on the statement, which he founded before going to
the White House. The statement is available here. Mr. Jones is
number 46.
The only surprise here is that, according to the 911Truth website,
Richie Havens is also a truther. For a taste of Jones's politics
(spoiler: not a fan of capitalism, but a huge fan of net
neutrality), check out this speech from 2007.
Snicker. Worst administration of the past fifty years? Not yet.
Johnson is still the standard bearer of horrible, and Obama still
has a few months with his foot on the accelerator to match W. The
goofiest administration of the past fifty years? Hellz yeah, and
Obama has yet to be attacked by a rabbit!
Fist of Etiquette|9.3.09 @ 9:10PM|#
How does Obama's team miss this?
After a while, the vetting team just started focusing on tax
returns.
JB|9.3.09 @ 9:17PM|#
Of course you would JB, of course you would, right after you
pressured it to have sex with you for the umpteenth
time.
I don't need to pressure your mom to have sex with me, troll.
Fist of Etiquette|9.3.09 @ 9:36PM|#
I am by no means a Truther, but I like to keep an open
mind.
It doesn't bother anyone here that on September 10, 2001,
renovation teams contracted from a Halliburton subsidiary had
just finished reenforcing the west wall of the Pentagon
with Barack Obama's birth certificate?
anonymous|9.3.09 @ 9:42PM|#
"On CivRev it like doubles your production."
CivRev? Isn't that like Civ for tards?
"Our intelligence agencies produced a Presidential Daily Brefing
Titled "Osama Bin Laden determined to attack the US. Also the FAA
had considered the possibility that terrorists would hijack a plane
and use it as a weapon," and in 2001 it distributed a CD-ROM
presentation to airlines and airports that cited the possibility of
a suicide hijacking. Also, The 9/11 Commission reported that they
"have found no indication of any further discussion before
September 11 among the President and his top advisers of the
possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United
States.""
Also, they let Chris Carter film their practice run and use it in
the pilot (get it?) for The Lone Gunmen, because, not realizing
that the 90's had been over for more than a year, they wanted their
conspiracy to be, like, totally ironic. Just like all the
documentary footage of aliens they mixed with the fictional bits in
the X Files.
Inspector Fu|9.3.09 @ 10:13PM|#
Guys. Michael Badnarik is also on the list.
How did libertarians not notice that.
-.-
Of course that doesn't excuse Obama's horrendousicity.
'just sayin'
24AheadDotCom|9.3.09 @ 10:37PM|#
Everyone who clicked my earlier link knew that Michael "Driver's
Licenses are the tool of Satan!" Badnarik and other interesting
people are on the list. Preventing people from learning things like
that is one of the reasons the Lil' Stalinists around here keep
telling me to STFU. Their goal is in part to keep you
ignorant.
Say, here's a challenge. I see that Powerline! has weighed in on
this issue, but I haven't read the
link. Without reading the link, I'm going to
guess that there's no real difference between their post and this
post from Reason. (If that doesn't work, feel free to choose one of
the hacks from here).
hmm|9.3.09 @ 10:40PM|#
How did Reason not comment on Krugman's Sept. 2 epic NYT
Magazine How Did Economists Get it so Wrong?
I was getting kind of used to the Krugman watch.
24AheadDotCom|9.3.09 @ 10:41PM|#
OK, so Powerline! only had a blurb, but the blurb is similar to this post. To make up for it, compare this Reason post to this HotAir post.
Mike M.|9.3.09 @ 10:53PM|#
Guys. Michael Badnarik is also on the list.
Not to excuse Badnarik, but here's the difference: nobody cares
about him, as he's a total nonentity with absolutely no power to
speak of.
Most people of course don't know who Van Jones is yet, but they're
going to very shortly. The liberal media will try to ignore the
story, but you would think they would have learned by now that that
doesn't work any more in the age of the Internet.
The fact that both Obama and Van Jones have already come out with
mealy-mouthed apology type statements means that this one is a
biggie, and they know it.
I think in the end he simply has to go, for the sake of what
remains of Obama's flagging presidential career. There's simply no
way they can spin themselves out of it. If Obama is crazy enough to
keep him on, he's finished. I expect a "resignation" on or before
Labor Day.
hmm|9.3.09 @ 11:19PM|#
We need to unite the birfers and trufers for the mother of all tinfoil hat and wrapping paper tube battles.
|9.3.09 @ 11:24PM|#
Does Van Jones know that his new boss is a part of the conspiracy? That his boss is actively covering up the truth?
</|9.3.09 @ 11:45PM|#
Maybe the Republicans should try to change the Constitution
so they can run a retarded monkey in 2012.
I would vote for it.
Did you vote for the one in 2008?
Tony|9.4.09 @ 12:49AM|#
CivRev? Isn't that like Civ for tards?
Or people who would prefer spending 3 hours playing a game rather
than 10.
Seriously though. It's not that I'm against industry. I just think
it should be small enough to drown in the bathtub, if
necessary.
|9.4.09 @ 1:08AM|#
What should scare the hell out of Obama is a giant clicking
sound. You know it does make sense, Obama is a commie, like his dad
before him. Also it might represent a lot of naive people realizing
maybe this guy - despite his HLS background - is not such a genius
after all. It was almost like UChicago was promoting this guy based
on something other than merit. Why would they do that?
The HLS degree and "law professor" gig make you sound smart. But
when people see you pursue what looks to them to be the wrong
economic move at every turn it become clear you are either not as
smart as advertised or you really believe this stuff. And then we
see a genius like Van Jones who calls himself a communist and a
Marxist.
You know, it starts to make sense. Amateur hour would be working
better, because most amateurs aren't committed to failed economic
policies. Click.
|9.4.09 @ 1:14AM|#
I'm sure Vladimir Putin and Barack Obama would get along GREAT! After all, they both like extreme power. And Putin would be really happy that Obama is promoting his country's old term for kings and queens so often.
|9.4.09 @ 1:17AM|#
Hahaha! This guy sure is a moron! He actually founded a group
whose mission is to "turn us into a green economy to lift people
out of poverty." Oh, please! The poorest Americans likely don't
even have the SKILLS or educational background to qualify for these
jobs, much less even be able to AFFORD the education necessary.
What a dumbass.
I'm so sick of that term "green-collar jobs", too. How are they any
better or in some kind of category of their own?? I wouldn't wear
it as a badge of honor if I worked on inefficient renewable
energies.
Truthers are mentally retarded|9.4.09 @ 2:22AM|#
Tony: "Oh no! A goofball conspiracy theory that's about 100
times more plausible than what comes from Glenn Beck's lips every
day of the week!"
Yes, perhaps if you have the intellect of a five year old and no
background whatsoever in science, math, or basic reasoning, then
yes, the truther movement is "plausible".
Michael Badnarik|9.4.09 @ 3:46AM|#
Still I bet you guys are pretty mad I signed that statement. Hah! I did it just to piss off people like you.
_^-^_|9.4.09 @ 7:41AM|#
comedienne Janeane Garofalo
Since when is Janeane Garofalo a "comedienne"? Bitter lefty hag,
yeah, but don't you have to be funny (and a woman) to be a
comedienne?
Abdul|9.4.09 @ 8:00AM|#
The funny thing is that the NYT ran an article a few weeks ago
about how Obama still has %57 of political appointments vacant. The
main reason? Getting sandbagged by vetting mistakes early on with
three appointtees in a row with tax problems meant that all the
vetting had to be double checked.
I think another problem is that, unlike Hillary or McCain, Obama
had little to no experience prior to running for President. The
Clintons and McCains have plenty of cronies whom they can rely on.
Obama is on the wrong side of the crony gap.
WWJGD|9.4.09 @ 8:38AM|#
"It's not that I'm against industry. I just think it should be
small enough to drown in the bathtub, if necessary."
This needs to be in Tony's Hall of Fame. I think it says
enough.
Anonymous|9.4.09 @ 8:47AM|#
Obama is on the wrong side of the crony gap
No, you answered that differently in your first paragraph: the
cronies he has are Chicago machine shit-bags.
|9.4.09 @ 9:07AM|#
Yet those who want to see birth certificates and college
transcripts are the real lunatics, RIGHT! It all makes sense
now.
Highest job in the land, no documents required just beleive us. Two
planes fly into buildings and the government did it.
This guy is in the administration because this is what that
administration is all about. They know what they are putting into
these positions and Obama actually thinks his "manadate" which is
now gone like the wind creates an environment that he can put
anyone in office. Hell we even had people that elected loons like
him to office all on their own. The guy needs to be sent home along
with all other Czars, period.
PicassoIII|9.4.09 @ 9:23AM|#
Know who else is on that 'truther' list?
Ralph Nader.
Yes, he's a dyed in the wool progressive, but hardly a lunatic.
Some even find him occasionally, uh, right.
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2004/nov/08/00010/
|9.4.09 @ 9:36AM|#
The evidence against virtually all of the Truther claims is
overwhelming. There have been quite a few articles that absolutely
take down the so-called facts that get thrown out about 9/11. I
believe Popular Mechanics did a good job trashing Truther
crap.
Of course, nothing will convince those willing to believe. Nothing.
Not even
pictures of the actual Moon landings. Oh, sorry, I crossed the
conspiracies.
|9.4.09 @ 9:54AM|#
Slightly off topic, but relevant. A friend sent me this vid link
to an amazing rant by "Dr." Larry Manning. I swear, I laughed so
hard that I peed a little.
He has to win a Grammy or Tony for
Best New Song Lyrics
"Obama and Larry Sinclair...Had a
Steamy Love Affair...In the back of a black Limousine"
|9.4.09 @ 9:59AM|#
BTW, Glenn Beck (who I watch for the entertainment value,
because he fell from the crazy tree and hit ALL the branches on the
way down) has gone completely batshit over Van Jones.
NTTARWT
EJM|9.4.09 @ 10:28AM|#
Of course, nothing will convince those willing to believe.
Nothing. Not even pictures of the actual Moon landings. Oh, sorry,
I crossed the conspiracies.
Well,
Neil Armstrong apparently has now been convinced of the
truth.
tekende|9.4.09 @ 11:56AM|#
The truther movement sure gives a LOT of credit to the Bush
administration.
I mean, this is an administration that screwed up pretty much
everything it attempted and couldn't carry out even the simplest of
tasks without something going wrong.
Yet they're supposed to be responsible for 9/11. Assuming they did
it, it would have been one of the most complex and secretive
seditious acts of all time, but they pulled it off without a single
flaw, without one person leaking the secret to someone else?
JB|9.4.09 @ 12:06PM|#
Did you vote for the one in 2008?
I voted against the absolute disgrace of a human being now in the
Whitehouse: Obama.
I saw what a total piece of crap he was long before most reason
writers and commenters. But then again, I didn't have Bush
Derangement Syndrome like most of them. I thought Bush was quite
bad (and never voted for him), but I recognized that we could
easily have someone worse. And here is Obama to prove me right.
|9.4.09 @ 1:32PM|#
I mean, this is an administration that screwed up pretty much everything it attempted...
That's just what they wanted you to think, man.
|9.4.09 @ 2:35PM|#
But Bush had countless creationists in his government so I
say we give this guy a pass.
So, I guess Tony's position is that if it was good enough for W,
its good enough for him. Pretty low bar, there, Tony.
C'mon, guys. Birthers, Truthers, LaRouchies, whoever, man. They are
entertainment, that's all.
Of course, anyone who takes them seriously should never be allowed
anywhere near a government post . . . .
|9.4.09 @ 4:37PM|#
A magazined named Reason should give some reasonable answers why
being a truther is an incorrect way of thinking.
You know, give reasons for statements.
Most of the arguments used against truthers don't even address
evidence is various videos and documents, most of the time they
attack the person making the statement and not the material
presented
|9.4.09 @ 6:56PM|#
No, steel can obviously melt, but the way the steel melted on
the twin towers was indicative of a controlled explosion ( possibly
using thermite ), not a plane crashing into it.
The counter argument for that is the plastics from office
equipment, and the way that type of plastic combusts, were hot
enough to melt the reinforced steel beams.
I've seen maths and references on the truther's side as to why it's
not possible for the energy created by a plane crash + fuel was not
enough to cause the damage seen at the twin towers.
What I would like to see is some counter maths with references
instead of simple denouciation
Fist of Etiquette|9.4.09 @ 10:28PM|#
I've used chicken wire and cement blocks to recreate a scale model of this entire thread, and I can conclusively report that it doesn't hold water.
|9.5.09 @ 1:01PM|#
WereTaco, Popular Mechanics (IIRC) did a definitive debunking of
all your points. Google it. E.g.: you don't have to have a fire hot
enough to melt steel beams, just one hot enough to weaken
them.
Plus, the Truther theory makes zero sense: if you're going to blow
the towers with controlled demolition, why not just do
that? You'd kill more people, don't have to coordinate it with
the uncertain arrival of hijacked planes, and can still blame it on
the terrorists. It's much simpler (don't have to recruit suicide
hijackers, etc.), more destructive, and there's much less to go
wrong. So the events we all saw make no sense as a conspiracy.
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