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More Scenes From the Health Care Debate Race War
Scripps Howard columnist Ann McFeatters, "Lynch-Mob Mentality Stirs Health-Care Debate":
Americans are flocking to town-hall meetings, screaming and shouting down nonplussed legislators, brandishing guns and throwing around false rumors as if they were hand grenades. [...]
Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing down costs and helping small businesses?
Syndicated columnist Gene Lyons, "The Lunatics Are No Longer on the Fringe":
It's not possible to reason with people peddling grotesque and preposterous lies, bargain with people who are screaming, or negotiate under threats of violence.
It's not a professional wrestling exhibition, it's our democracy. Persons whose behavior would get them thrown out of a Rolling Stones show should be removed by security. Period.
Media columnist Michael Wolff, "The Nutters Are Coming to Get You":
They've always been here. But the nutters are surfacing in a way and to a degree that is finally catching the agape attention of non-nutters. It is not only the ferocity of their anger that is surprising, but the focus of it: this birth certificate stuff, the death panel business, the tea bags, and the apparently heartfelt belief that the end of America is upon us. [...]
This might also be called demographic rage. It isn't shared across the social and economic spectrum. It's limited to…well, the stupids.
Tides Foundation Chair Melissa Bradley, "Speaking Power to Truth":
As progressive ideas like green jobs become mainstream, the right is clearly threatened. Their falsehoods and perception warping is intensifying. So what do we do? Basking in our infamy can be fun, but it's time for the vast left wing conspiracy to link arms, step into our power and fight back. There's been a significant change in our ability to influence the public agenda, and just because we are in power, doesn't mean that our work hasn't diminished. In fact, we all need to pick it up several notches to reverse the erosion of rights that has gone on for the past 30 years.
Gawker's John Cook, "GOP: Pay No Attention to Our Crazy Supporters Who Want to Kill Obama":
These death threats aren't threats—they're challenges. They're attempts to inject into the public debate the sense that violence is a legitimate response to political defeat. As someone in the blogosphere whom we can't presently recall wrote yesterday, the appropriate response to a president who advocates rounding up the elderly and sending them before death panels is—if it seems like he's on the cusp of achieving that goal—to kill or rebel against him. And each publicized call for Obama's death adds to the public perception that we've reached a decision-point about whether it's time for killing. Every sign—even if the bearer is merely an angry loon who could never get close to Obama—is an inducement to someone who is willing to try. It's a message to fellow travelers, a signal that they are not alone in their rage, a promise of glory to come if they actually manage to get the job done. As we said before, there are always people who want to kill the president. The question is how many give it a shot. And the more of these signs there are in the background of Fox News' live report from some town hall in Missouri saying that someone should give it a shot, the more people actually will. And the more people that give it a shot, the more likely someone is to hit the jackpot.
And today's right-of-center commentator who concurs? David Frum, "The Reckless Right Courts Violence":
Nobody has been hurt so far. We can all hope that nobody will be. But firearms and politics never mix well. They mix especially badly with a third ingredient: the increasingly angry tone of incitement being heard from right-of-center broadcasters.
The Nazi comparisons from Rush Limbaugh; broadcaster Mark Levin asserting that President Obama is "literally at war with the American people"; former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin claiming that the president was planning "death panels" to extirpate the aged and disabled; the charges that the president is a fascist, a socialist, a Marxist, an illegitimate Kenyan fraud, that he "harbors a deep resentment of America," that he feels a "deep-seated hatred of white people," that his government is preparing concentration camps, that it is operating snitch lines, that it is planning to wipe away American liberties": All this hysterical and provocative talk invites, incites, and prepares a prefabricated justification for violence.
And indeed some conservative broadcasters are lovingly anticipating just such an outcome.
Plenty of hyperlinks in Frum's original. Yesterday's race war headlines here.
|8.14.09 @ 9:56AM|#
And today's right-of-center commentator who concurs? David
Frum,
I'm not sure when David Frum stopped being right of center, but I'm
pretty sure it was sometime last year at the latest.
I love the smell of hysteria in the morning. Keep on demonizing,
lefties. Everyone you demonize is someone you alienate.
Kyle Jordan|8.14.09 @ 9:59AM|#
Exactly RC. They're scared because people are seeing past the bullshit and they didn't anticipate that. Whether or not these disgruntled people are basing their concerns on good or bad information, the left is having to go on a hard offensive.
Anonymous|8.14.09 @ 10:01AM|#
They have no argument, so they insult because they are
scared.
Yeah, they ran through the briars and they ran through the
brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico.
Spoonman|8.14.09 @ 10:01AM|#
Ugh. Assuming other people's views aren't worth considering is a
step towards assuming other people's views shouldn't be
heard.
We already saw this yesterday, with the woman who was horrified
that people were "allowed" to get in the way of the Democrats'
agenda.
squarooticus|8.14.09 @ 10:05AM|#
In fact, we all need to pick it up several notches to reverse the erosion of rights that has gone on for the past 30 years.
You can start with my property rights and my right to keep and bear
arms. No? That's not what you were thinking?
New World Dan|8.14.09 @ 10:06AM|#
Meh. The anti-Obama crowd is every bit as crazy as the anti-Bush crowd was. And that's a whole lot o' crazy.
<strike>strike through</strike|8.14.09 @ 10:11AM|#
My, my. These delicate flowers should probably steer clear of 1760s and '70s New England political propaganda. They would positively wither.
Xeones|8.14.09 @ 10:13AM|#
In anticipation of another 500+ comment morass, i'm gonna go ahead and declare everyone in this thread a fascist.
|8.14.09 @ 10:17AM|#
I don't support Obamacare in the least, but actually don't think Frum is far off the mark. Limbaugh et al are clearly chumming the waters here.
Zeb|8.14.09 @ 10:19AM|#
In anticipation of another 500+ comment morass, i'm gonna go
ahead and declare everyone in this thread a
fascist.
Fucking Fascist.
|8.14.09 @ 10:23AM|#
It's funny, from what I experienced the violence and extremism
is coming from the SEIU and AFL-CIO union thugs who get a bus ride,
a sandwich, and some cash to show up at these events. For a
comparison: William Kostric was legally open carrying a pistol,
everyone freaks out. Union chump kicks a guy in the balls and spits
in another guy's camera, that's not news, just typical, everyday
behavior.
Exhibits A and B:
Union thugs
arrive on buses from Massachussetts
Union thug
spitting on a guy
GV|8.14.09 @ 10:24AM|#
Tulpa:
As much as I think Rush is a hack, and I couldn't make it 20 pages
into Levin's book without throwing it away in disgust, stirring
things up is good.
It's much more entertaining (and LONG overdue) watching the
parasites in DC squirm.
tarran|8.14.09 @ 10:24AM|#
CoyoteBlue,
You gotta understand, these guys are professional journalists.
Definitions of words like "Brandishing " are not their strong
suit.
|8.14.09 @ 10:25AM|#
It's Bizarro Crazy Eddie politics:
Their beliefs are so opposed to ours that they must be
CRAZY!
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
|8.14.09 @ 10:27AM|#
Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of
opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing
down costs and helping small businesses?
And theses people think I'm deluded?
<strike>strike through</strike|8.14.09 @ 10:41AM|#
Warty | August 14, 2009, 10:32am | #
You know what's awesome? Being a fascist.
What's really awesome is how a) so many accusers can't
properly spell fascist and b) so many don't have a clue
what the word actually means.
|8.14.09 @ 10:42AM|#
Obama's Safety: Fear Grows for President as Hate Groups Thrive
on Racial Backlash
Violent Signs, Gun, Standoff Latest in Emerging Anger Towards the
President
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=8324481&page=1
more msm frothing
Spartacus|8.14.09 @ 10:43AM|#
Do we not want to make the best of this brief window of opportunity to make changes aimed at benefiting millions, bringing down costs and helping small businesses?
OK, I must have missed something. Is there some sort of time portal
that will soon close and prevent all future consideration of any
health care reform forever? How come nobody told me about this
before?
George|8.14.09 @ 10:47AM|#
Frum is just being made so darn uncomfortable at DC cocktail parties by the unwashed Republican masses. Can't they understand that they are putting him in a terribly uncomfortable position?
T|8.14.09 @ 10:47AM|#
Is there some sort of time portal that will soon close and
prevent all future consideration of any health care reform forever?
How come nobody told me about this before?
Because they've got to get it now, while they still can. Once
everybody gets all polarized and nutty about it, it can't pass.
Xeones|8.14.09 @ 10:48AM|#
Once everybody gets all polarized and nutty about it, it
can't pass.
So you're saying the window has closed already?
Fascist.
T|8.14.09 @ 10:49AM|#
Hey, as a digression from the fascist wars Xeones keeps starting (prob'ly because he's a fascist), what are the actual bill numbers for existing proposals?
|8.14.09 @ 10:53AM|#
From what I've seen, it looks like the supporters have more of their S.A. reps involved that the opponents.
|8.14.09 @ 10:56AM|#
Heh, that's funny, all those protesting, taking more of our
money and freedom to politicians who've made it clear they're not
listening, are radical right-wing militia types. I'm glad those
journos are so adept at ignoring anything uncomfortable to their
position. Wouldn't want to tell anyone the truth. Course if they
tried that, they wouldn't have as much hard-hitting stuff to write.
The whining of Liberal politicians about us bullying right wingers,
and the baseless claims of right-wing violence fit the agenda so
much better.
Oh, and I haven't seen anything right of center out of Frum in
quite a while.
|8.14.09 @ 10:57AM|#
Persons whose behavior would get them thrown out of a
Rolling Stones show should be removed by security.
Period.
A lot of people in the "OMG 911 911 teh TERRORISM! AAAAAH,
BOOGEYMAAAAAAN!" crowd are going to get their beloved USA PATRIOT
ACT shoved up their asses by the new regime. This will surprise
them.
My shameful, vindictive glee as I watch will be boundless.
|8.14.09 @ 11:14AM|#
Characterizing opponents of your policies as crazy is a time-honored tactic of both parties.
T|8.14.09 @ 11:26AM|#
My shameful, vindictive glee as I watch will be
boundless.
I'm experiencing a lot of schadenfreude lately. I don't expect it
to go away soon.
hmm|8.14.09 @ 11:26AM|#
The race card has lost it's trump power with most people. The
media, as usual is behind the curve.
The question is how many give it a shot. And the more of these signs there are in the background of Fox News' live report from some town hall in Missouri saying that someone should give it a shot, the more people actually will.
Hey dipshit. The moron with the sign was over in Maryland. You know
on the east coast with all you intellectual fucktards. Not in MO
with the rednecks. Elitist fuckstick.
|8.14.09 @ 11:31AM|#
I find it highly ironic that the asshole union thug in the video posted upthread is wearing a brown shirt.
Doug|8.14.09 @ 11:31AM|#
The Town Hall/Protestor Whining was the top story on every MSM outlet this morning. If this is the biggest, most critical issue that we have to deal with today then we Americans are blessed to no end.
mark|8.14.09 @ 11:34AM|#
Even when David Frum was writing for the Globe and Mail in the mid nineties the guy was something of a squish, even by Canadian conservative standards.
JB|8.14.09 @ 11:36AM|#
It's not possible to reason with people peddling grotesque
and preposterous lies...
That is why people are shouting. Obama and his zombies are
constantly lying. At a basic level, they claim that all these
increases to the debt and deficit won't lead to higher taxes. That
is a lie and everyone in America can see it.
You don't reason with zombies and you don't negotiate with zombies.
There is only one thing you do with zombies.
The more articles like the above that are published, the sooner
that starts.
|8.14.09 @ 11:41AM|#
You don't reason with zombies and you don't negotiate with
zombies. There is only one thing you do with zombies.
Dress them up, pretend they're Scarlett Johansson, and jerk off
while they remove their clothing?
|8.14.09 @ 11:44AM|#
Perception is reality in american politics. I don't know if
health care reform is gonna pass but from where I sit, the msm is
casting a very negative light on everyone in disagreement with the
current administration.
If reform passes and has negative long term consequences, it will
be blamed on the republican boogity man. If it fails to pass,
ditto.
I realized yesterday that lefties are passive aggressive by nature.
They have been feeding conservatives rope for a great long while.
Now the right is building their own gallows.
Mike in PA|8.14.09 @ 11:44AM|#
I'm heading to a town hall on Monday and need some short
questions. Any ideas? Here's one I thought of:
In my 36 years, the government has been taking an
ever-expanding role in our health care. That is
the status quo. How is this proposal NOT the status quo?
|8.14.09 @ 11:45AM|#
So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it doesn't take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot at the prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll.
|8.14.09 @ 11:48AM|#
Mo, He is headed for Montana right now. A likely place for such an event, if you ask me. Lotsa nuts growin in that big sky country.
|8.14.09 @ 11:50AM|#
Mo, the last thing we need is for the Postmodern Messiah to achieve eternal love via the martyr's route.
Scott|8.14.09 @ 11:50AM|#
What should these protesters do....politely disagree? Just send
a little e-mail to some bottomless congressional e-mail account?
And if that doesn't work, then what? Just shrug, give up, and pat
themselves on the back for trying? What is the sound of dissent if
no one can hear it?
Sounds like these "journalists" need a huge refresher course on the
First Amendment.
Spoonman|8.14.09 @ 11:51AM|#
brotherben, that would be a goddamn disaster. The last thing we need now for the Democrats is to give them a 9/11.
Rich|8.14.09 @ 11:51AM|#
Proper spelling is fascist.
Well, at the risk of being labeled a fascist, I would say that is
going too far.
Proper *ettiquette*, perhaps.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 11:53AM|#
people are seeing past the bullshit
And then offering up an even bigger pile of their own.
Right to protest, blah blah blah. Does it not matter to any of you
that they're demonstrating a rather complete detachment from facts
and reality?
Libertarians for being misinformed and hysterical for freedom!
JB|8.14.09 @ 11:53AM|#
It seems like that would tar all opponents as crazies and
allow the dems to roll.
They would just demonize more and radicalize more people. A rather
large segment of the American population has been buying more and
more guns and ammo since Obama was elected. Nearly all of these
people are critical of Obama.
The Left and their allies in the MSM keep vilifying anyone who
isn't on their knees for Obama. Not very bright to keep on
antagonizing a large group of armed people.
JB|8.14.09 @ 11:57AM|#
Mo, the last thing we need is for the Postmodern Messiah to
achieve eternal love via the martyr's route...
...without including Biden and Pelosi. Fixed, because that is much
worse.
Someone described Biden as Obama's greatest insurance policy. I
agree on that. As much as I hate Obama (and it's up there), I find
Biden and Pelosi to be much worse. Btw, does that make me racist
against whitey?
Uncle Joe Stalin|8.14.09 @ 11:57AM|#
Characterizing opponents of your policies as crazy is a
time-honored tactic of both parties.
It worked pretty well for me.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 11:59AM|#
JB,
It's not a large group and it's not growing. It's just vocal, and
has its very own mass media platform on FOX news. What it is is a
fringe group whose main motivation is probably not a philosophical
position on health care. They're being agitated by anti-Obama
propaganda whose goal is totally political.
JB|8.14.09 @ 11:59AM|#
JB, let's keep the "shoot the bastards" on the
down-low.
I didn't say anything about shooting. I just don't think it's very
bright to keep antagonizing a large group of people with
weapons.
Craig|8.14.09 @ 12:00PM|#
I'm heading to a town hall on Monday and need some short
questions. Any ideas?
A few short questions come to mind:
Why am I considered racist for disagreeing with the premise that
adding more government involvement will improve health care?
If the "government option" is going to be able to compete on its
own against private insurers, without subsidy, why can't you find
venture capitalists to fund it, instead of adding billions more to
the national debt?
Won't adding more mandatory benefit requirements just discourage
small businesses from adding jobs, when unemployment is already
approaching 10 percent?
Which health care industry lobbyists have donated the most money in
support of this plan?
Why will this program not exceed its original budget and scope, as
all other government interventions in medical care have done?
Shouldn't we wait until you've at least cut the budget deficit in
half, as you promised during the campaign, before adding new
spending programs? And when you say "cut in half", do you mean
after doubling it first, or 50 percent of the deficit in Bush's
last term?
TallDave|8.14.09 @ 12:02PM|#
The lefty protests under Bush were much worse.
They just never got reported that way by a largely sympathetic
MSM.
"One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate
Bush's assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had
been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his
temple.
"BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE," read the placard, which had an X
over the word "ALIVE."
Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a
cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a
group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks.
Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to
a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.
Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and
leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking
the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked
to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her
wrist.
The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was
forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for
Bush's motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by
protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president's moving
limousine."
|8.14.09 @ 12:03PM|#
Right to protest, blah blah blah. Does it not matter to any of you that they're demonstrating a rather complete detachment from facts and reality?
I'm much more concerned with the detachment from reality being
demonstrated by those in power than by people who are so
disenfranchised that their only recourse is to wave signs in the
street.
JB|8.14.09 @ 12:05PM|#
Tony, you might want to actually go out and talk to humans
instead of listening to the sock puppets in your head.
All sorts of people I know and just randomly meet, many of whom
aren't even political, are very pissed off because they understand
that Bush spent a lot of money and that Obama is spending even
more. And every day Obama calls for spending more money. They
understand this can't continue, something politicians don't seem to
grasp.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 12:06PM|#
I just don't think it's very bright to keep antagonizing a large group of people with weapons.
How are they being antagonized? By enacting a legislative agenda
every Democrat campaigned on? So democracy means giving in to the
most hysterical minority because they might shoot you if you do
something they don't like?
anonymous|8.14.09 @ 12:07PM|#
"If reform passes and has negative long term consequences, it
will be blamed on the republican boogity man"
lol whut
Anonymous|8.14.09 @ 12:07PM|#
What it is is a fringe group
If they're fringe, libertarians must not exist at all.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 12:08PM|#
TallDave,
It's my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of which
were the largest such events in the history of mankind, received
rather scant coverage in general. Notably by FOX news, which pretty
much totally ignored them (and demonized them), although recently
for some reason they've come around to providing near constant
coverage and support of citizens protesting.
Michael Ejercito|8.14.09 @ 12:09PM|#
The lefty protests under Bush were much worse. They just never got reported that way by a largely sympathetic MSM.
"One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush's assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.
"BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE," read the placard, which had an X over the word "ALIVE."
Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks. Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.
Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her wrist.
The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for Bush's motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president's moving limousine."
Hypocrisy by the MSM?
Not surprising.
Warty|8.14.09 @ 12:10PM|#
So democracy means giving in to the most hysterical
minority
I'll let this one stand on its own. Fascist.
perilisk|8.14.09 @ 12:11PM|#
"So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it doesn't
take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot at the
prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all
opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll."
Maybe we'll get lucky and a crazy Democrat makes a pre-emptive
strike against Glenn Beck instead.
|8.14.09 @ 12:14PM|#
anonymous, I was suggesting that the msm would spin it to blame
republican additions to the bill for any bad results.
Don't counter with factual questions. To do so is to underestimate
the willingness of voters to believe the pretty people on the
teevee.
JB|8.14.09 @ 12:16PM|#
Tony, calling people who oppose gigantic increases in the
deficit and debt 'Nazis' and 'evil-mongers' and 'rednecks' and all
the other garbage isn't very bright when many of them are
armed.
It's even less bright when those hurling the insults are doing so
because their opponents won't accept that 2+2=5. Rational people
don't want to be controlled by irrational people like that, and if
you strike a rational man enough times, he is going to strike
back.
|8.14.09 @ 12:16PM|#
It's my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of
which were the largest such events in the history of mankind,
received rather scant coverage in general.
It must have been very scant. I don't remember em.
Tomcat1066|8.14.09 @ 12:23PM|#
It sounds like the basic premise of Tony's argument is "we won,
you lost, so sit down and shut the hell up".
Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much different
tune.
hmm|8.14.09 @ 12:23PM|#
To me it looks like the media is trying to get ahead of the curve on any possibility of an OK city type event. It's like they are trying to set up an, "I told you so." moment.
Anonymous|8.14.09 @ 12:25PM|#
Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much
different tune.
Yeah, "never waste a good crisis," Venezuela style.
|8.14.09 @ 12:26PM|#
So democracy means giving in to the most hysterical
minority
You might wanna check out the thread on Yale's refusal to print the
Mohammed cartoons for arguments on why giving in to fear is the
right thing to do.
Tomcat1066|8.14.09 @ 12:28PM|#
Of course, in 4-8 years, he may be singing a much, much
different tune.
Yeah, "never waste a good crisis," Venezuela style.
Actually, I was just thinking of a different party being in power,
with him being part of the "hysterical minority". After all, the
pendulum swings both ways.
Anonymous|8.14.09 @ 12:31PM|#
After all, the pendulum swings both ways.
I'm sure Congress will have something to say about that. Pendulums
can't be free to swing according to their conscience; they have to
lend their energies to society at large. Research at Los Alamos
suggests this swing can be harnessed to power police lasers
stunning firearms users.
|8.14.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Sooooo, some people scary conservatives get pissed
off over talk about socialized medicine, start showing up at open
meetings, use harsh language at the people threatening to socialize
health care in the US and the left's only response is to
collectively wets its pants and start calling them names and
questioning their mental health?
Pussies.
The right should protest things more often. This is far too
entertaining. It's like the 2000 election all over again.
Elemenope|8.14.09 @ 12:34PM|#
I'm much more concerned with the detachment from reality
being demonstrated by those in power than by people who are so
disenfranchised that their only recourse is to wave signs in the
street.
Yeah, I mean they're so oppressed they have no other option but to
retreat into the fantasies in their heads!
T|8.14.09 @ 12:37PM|#
Every time the subject of political violence comes up, I always
think back to Matt Ruff:
"It's easy to renounce physical violence if you aren't very good at
it."
Is that why somebody with a gun freaks out the left so badly?
Because they suspect that if lead starts flying, they'll get the
worst of it?
Tony|8.14.09 @ 12:38PM|#
who oppose gigantic increases in the deficit and debt
So why can't we have a calm, fact-based debate about whether the
deficits are a bad thing or a necessary thing to fend off
depression? These are quintessential low-information voters.
Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to them by
people with political motives.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 12:40PM|#
Tony, calling people who oppose gigantic increases in the deficit and debt 'Nazis' and 'evil-mongers' and 'rednecks' and all the other garbage isn't very bright when many of them are armed.
These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he's much better
armed than they are.
T|8.14.09 @ 12:41PM|#
These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he's much
better armed than they are.
Congress isn't.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 12:51PM|#
Congress isn't.
Yes it is. Since we're throwing around threats of violence (over
mere policy differences) here at this libertarian oasis, why aren't
the tea baggers afraid that the all-powerful tyranny that is the
(Democratic-majority) government will go to extreme measures once
they start shooting people? If rightwingers start becoming
terrorists I'm sure they won't object to some indefinite detention
and torture.
Anonymous|8.14.09 @ 12:56PM|#
I refuse to believe anybody is that stupid. It's either Radley doing an excellent poker face or the ghost of joe.
Tim Cavanaugh|8.14.09 @ 12:57PM|#
As progressive ideas like green jobs become
mainstream
As the Easter Bunny and the economic recovery can tell you,
becoming mainstream doesn't mean you actually exist.
|8.14.09 @ 12:58PM|#
Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to
them by people with political motives.
They again.
JB|8.14.09 @ 12:58PM|#
These guys are calling the president a Nazi and he's much
better armed than they are.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments
should be afraid of their people."
JB|8.14.09 @ 1:00PM|#
Nothing they say is factual...
Obama raising the deficit and debt to unprecedented levels and
saying he won't raise taxes is factual?
You and Obama are both liars.
hmm|8.14.09 @ 1:03PM|#
As the Easter Bunny and the economic recovery can tell you, becoming mainstream doesn't mean you actually exist.
Whoaaa, back the fuck up. Then who leaves all these fucking eggs
and the basket of diabetes around the yard every year?
Tony|8.14.09 @ 1:04PM|#
JB,
Actually no it's not. The debt is at unprecedented levels, but
Obama has never said he won't raise any taxes. The healthcare bill
being sold is supposed to be budget neutral.
And I find the notion that the only thing these protesters care
about is the deficit totally laughable. That's a relatively wonky
obsession to motivate such hysteria and Hitler comparisons.
T|8.14.09 @ 1:06PM|#
Yes it is. Since we're throwing around threats of violence
(over mere policy differences) here at this libertarian oasis, why
aren't the tea baggers afraid that the all-powerful tyranny that is
the (Democratic-majority) government will go to extreme measures
once they start shooting people? If rightwingers start becoming
terrorists I'm sure they won't object to some indefinite detention
and torture.
Honest answer? Those that are serious about the threats of
political violence (as opposed to joking about it to tweak the
lefty trolls) firmly believe they will not be taken alive. The
mentality is they will die with gun in hand, shooting agents of the
state. Whether or not they have the strength of will to follow
though on that remains to be seen, and hopefully I won't see it in
my lifetime.
JB|8.14.09 @ 1:06PM|#
The healthcare bill being sold is supposed to be budget
neutral.
You believe that?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
Then what is this "$1 trillion" I keep hearing about?
Anyone who believes this healthcare bill will be budget neutral is
not a human being in my book.
JB|8.14.09 @ 1:09PM|#
Those that are serious about the threats of political
violence (as opposed to joking about it to tweak the lefty
trolls)
I'm neither at this moment, but I am predicting violence if the
Left and the MSM keep pushing. Socialists have plenty of countries
to choose from. Freedom-loving Americans are backed into a corner
right now with nowhere to go.
Worker\'s Paradise |8.14.09 @ 1:10PM|#
"Warty | August 14, 2009, 10:32am | #
You know what's awesome? Being a fascist."
My you live long and well, comrade.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 1:13PM|#
JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the "left." And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely disintegrate.
Worker\'s Paradise |8.14.09 @ 1:16PM|#
"Dress them up, pretend they're Scarlett Johansson"
I loved her in Manny and Lo. Even as a child, you could tell she
was gonna be hot. Same as Natalie Wood.
Worker\'s Paradise |8.14.09 @ 1:19PM|#
DO NOT CONVERSE WITH TONY. IT WILL MAKE YOU STERILE.
THAT IS ALL.
|8.14.09 @ 1:22PM|#
Actually no it's not. The debt is at unprecedented levels, but Obama has never said he won't raise any taxes. The healthcare bill being sold is supposed to be budget neutral.
Semantic arguments are pretty cute and all, right up until the
point that they fall apart because people see the whole
picture.
Then they just get really pissed, and are not going to listen to
you, no matter how "reasonable" you try to sound while forcing your
beliefs on them.
The left's words are generally self-fellating bullshit, but their
actions are truly reprehensible.
Gilbert Martin|8.14.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Rush Limbaugh was playing a clip from ABC news on his show where
they were trying to gin up a scare about "right wing hate
groups".
As usual they trotted out the Sothern Poverty Law Center as the
"authority" on the subject.
And of course the SPLC duitiflly served up exactly what the MSM
lefites wanted to hear (that is, after all, it's business model and
the only reason it exists), yapping the usual hysterical crap
they've been spouting for decades.
oh no not this again|8.14.09 @ 1:27PM|#
Are we going to get one of these everyday? Are John and jb ever in the same place at the same time? Those screaming freedom lovers have no clue what they are talking about. Love their timing though
|8.14.09 @ 1:28PM|#
"So if one of these dudes does snap (and for crazies, it
doesn't take much, maybe a wink from Jodie Foster), and take a shot
at the prez, are we all screwed? It seems like that would tar all
opponents as crazies and allow the dems to roll."
They got decades out of JFK, another unqualified and celebrity
President who was circling the drain, being turned into a romantic
martyr.
TallDave|8.14.09 @ 1:31PM|#
It's my recollection that the anti-Bush protests, some of
which were the largest such events in the history of mankind,
received rather scant coverage in general.
Oh please. Even the tiny antiwar protests got coverage. Cindy
Sheehan was an MSM celebrity for hanging out with 15 people outside
Bush's ranch.
It was the violence in protests like Seattle that didn't get
mentioned.
|8.14.09 @ 1:33PM|#
One of the problems there, though, is that the successor's
someone who would have a hard time taking advantage of it from the
Oval office. Even democrats have been scoffing at Biden, as a way
to avoid criticizing the chicken-hawk in chief* personally.
Disclaimer: *Using the charge chicken-hawk to discredit political
ideas is a logical fallacy, but it's too juicy rubbing in the
cognitive dissonance.
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.14.09 @ 1:34PM|#
oh no not this again,
I see you finally finished dry-humping your dog.
on no not this again|8.14.09 @ 1:38PM|#
Didn't the lefty Msm demonize bushs critics. You know they did, why are people surprised they are doing it for this one?
oh no not this again|8.14.09 @ 1:41PM|#
Hey jb, nice to finally see you bring honest with yourself about liking black cock
Joel|8.14.09 @ 1:55PM|#
What's really awesome is how a) so many accusers can't
properly spell fascist and b) so many don't have a clue what the
word actually means.
"Fascist" has had the same, simple meaning since sometime in the
fifties: "Anyone who disagrees with me."
JB|8.14.09 @ 1:57PM|#
JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start
shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the
"left." And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical
domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely
disintegrate.
Keep dreaming 'budget neutral' sock-puppet. After that laugh, I
don't think I will bother engaging with you any more. It's
pointless talking to zombies who actually think the healthcare bill
will be budget neutral.
JB|8.14.09 @ 1:59PM|#
oh no, I post under 'JB' 99.9% of the time and the few times I
don't it is for obvious comedic effect (once or twice under 'Obama'
or something similar).
'Bigg Blakk Dikk' is actually a commenter here and I have a feeling
you are jealous.
|8.14.09 @ 2:01PM|#
These are quintessential low-information voters. Nothing they say is factual, just based in paranoia fed to them by people with political motives.
That is really fucking rich.
...really...fucking...rich...
THAT IS ALL.
hmm|8.14.09 @ 2:03PM|#
Lets not forget who started the shooting last time there were
high profile right wing nut job confrontations with the federal
government.
It's ok Lon. Killing unarmed citizens mothers is alright as long as
you are following orders.
hmm|8.14.09 @ 2:05PM|#
The low information comment is pretty funny. I run into what I consider low information voters all the time on college campuses. Just because you know a little or a lot about one side does not mean you are a well informed voter.
|8.14.09 @ 2:13PM|#
I just couldn't help myself. Apologies to anyone offended by the use of their handle.
MattXIV|8.14.09 @ 2:16PM|#
Didn't the lefty Msm demonize bushs critics. You know they did, why are people surprised they are doing it for this one?
They demonized Iraq war critics initially, then lionized them once
mainstream Democrats came around. The media isn't biased left as
much as biased towards whatever Serious People (ie the Democratic
establishment) are pushing at the time.
|8.14.09 @ 2:20PM|#
MattXIV, I think the msm is pushing what they percieve will sell the most tickets. In american politics, its the bastard demon spawn of Survivor and American Idol.
|8.14.09 @ 3:00PM|#
Note: The Target-in-Chief will be down the road a piece this
afternoon. I hope he stays the fuck away from here.
I can't wait for the stories about how the President's little
Yellowstone visitation cause a monumental clusterfuck for all the
little people. Maybe they'll lock down Old Faithful for him.
|8.14.09 @ 3:02PM|#
Let's see, forty-plus years of liberals scaring senior citizens
that the Republicans were going to take away their SS and Medicare
versus one month of similar scare tactics from the
conservatives.
Yes, both sides are equally guilty of using senior citizens.
Old Italian Guy|8.14.09 @ 3:04PM|#
"WTF?"
Sorry, Bigg. I simply couldn't resist an opportunity to mock oh no.
Nothing worse than a boorish prig.
furious|8.14.09 @ 3:13PM|#
I have a co-worker and good friend (even after we talk politics)
who walked precincts for Obama and supports him 100%. She's very
grounded and well-informed, and can listen to the other side.
She's confided several times that she feels that race relations are
taking a turn for the worse since Pres. Obama took office.
I agree with her, I just don't have the heart to suggest that, just
maybe, the reflexive branding of Pres. Obama's opponents as
"racist" may have something to do with it.
Tony|8.14.09 @ 3:17PM|#
just maybe, the reflexive branding of Pres. Obama's opponents as "racist" may have something to do with it.
Or maybe the racists in this country are upset about having a black
president.
Besides, rightwingers toss out the racism accusation plenty, but
only at minorities.
furious|8.14.09 @ 3:23PM|#
My father-in-law thinks Janet Napolitano was right-on in
profiling bible-thumpers, low-taxers, anti-abortionists, returning
veterans, and mom-n-pop tea-partygoers as "extremists" worthy of
investigating.
I point out to him that most of the, you know, ACTUAL violence
(Seattle WTO, Hummer dealerships, power transmission lines,
disruptions of Republican conventions, New Black Panther
Poll-watchers, cars w/American Flags/Support the Troops/Bush-Cheney
stickers, and so on) are perpetrated by his side of the
argument.
Pop seems caught in the old "Fascism is always descending on
America, but always landing in Europe" paradox.
furious|8.14.09 @ 3:29PM|#
Tony:
When you lot can come up with something better than
"Socialism in the new N-word" then maybe you'll have an inkling
of the beginning of a point.
|8.14.09 @ 3:33PM|#
We've seen this movie before, during the Clinton years when the
left started to identify boogeymen like militias and threats to the
government, trying to distort and distract from his sexual antics,
as well as failures to lead.
They are really getting hysterical. There are no mainstream threats
against BHO. What citizen in their right mind would want Biden in
office. We only want to defeat the policies of this current
government. The left knows that the vast majority of citizens do
not want to turn over their private lives to the state. They can't
defend their plan so they throw out hyperbolic nonsense.
Typical.
|8.14.09 @ 3:35PM|#
furious, I felt as though I was pretty knowledgable when I cast my vote for Obama/Biden. I agreed with a lot of his grandiose plans. That said, I am finding myself a little more uncomfortable every day with his tactics and his backpeddling. I don't know if race relations are getting worse, but I see a polarization in political camps that is getting a bit alarming.
T|8.14.09 @ 3:43PM|#
Besides, rightwingers toss out the racism accusation plenty,
but only at minorities.
Besides, minorities toss out the racism accusation plenty, but only
at rightwingers.
furious|8.14.09 @ 3:53PM|#
Brotherben:
Sorry, brother, your fishy wavering loyalties just earned yourself
a mention to the Whitehouse.gov narc line.
'flag@whitehouse.gov'
You're in good company, though, some wag reported the Director
fo the SBO for his "fishy" scoring of Obamacare's fiscal
impact.
|8.14.09 @ 4:04PM|#
furious,
If the 'socialism' accusation isn't just racism disguised, then at
the very least it's ignorance on display. Obama is no more
socialist than his predecessors by any consistent definition of the
word.
|8.14.09 @ 4:17PM|#
Tony,
Sorry, you'll have to build a bigger strawman than that, and get
another box of matches.
There's plenty of ignorance on display at all four poles of the
compass when it comes to sticking a label in what Obama and
Congress are doing, and while I don't think that calling Obama's
agenda 'socialism' (yet), I think it fits better than calling the
opposition of the public to his agenda 'racist'. Or even of calling
Bush's administration 'fascist', and not Obama's.
|8.14.09 @ 4:23PM|#
furious, sending accusatory e-mails to my benefactor may become troublesome for you my friend.
|8.14.09 @ 4:26PM|#
If President Obama is in danger from anybody, it'll be from some lefty nutball furious because Hopenchangistan didn't happen yesterday like the Prez said it would. As for all the outrage over a bunch of pensioners and flyover voters protesting the fact that our "leaders" aren't even bothering to read legislation before they vote on it, you people have short, extremely selective, memories. I've yet to see any of these town hall protestors strip naked, or throw themselves in front of a truck, or bust out the glass fronts of stores.
|8.14.09 @ 4:27PM|#
Spartacus | August 14, 2009, 10:43am | #
"OK, I must have missed something. Is there some sort of time
portal that will soon close and prevent all future consideration of
any health care reform forever? How come nobody told me about this
before?"
That's the talking point. None of this resistance would even be
here if the Dems hadn't gone down the forced equality road with the
public option and heavy regulation of private insurance. They,
easily, could have pushed through coverage for those falling
between the cracks of existing programs.....
|8.14.09 @ 4:33PM|#
Besides, why bother with such a messy business as assassination when we can just vote the dundercrats in Congress out of power in 2010? Why, President Obama could stay for a second term if he wanted to. Just so long as he can't enact any of his highly dubious agenda.
|8.14.09 @ 5:14PM|#
None of this resistance would even be here if...
Bullshit. The resistance is against a bill that doesn't exist yet
and which will certainly not contain any of the provisions they are
protesting about.
It's a watered-down, industry-coddling tweak that will not affect a
single one of those protesters' lives negatively. They are
protesting because their guys aren't in power anymore, and rather
than remembering that sometimes that happens in a democracy, they
are ranting like lunatics and tacitly advocating militant overthrow
like the ignorant crybabies they are.
24AheadDotCom|8.14.09 @ 5:24PM|#
Perhaps Welch could comment on what role Reason and their
friends have played in these issues.
For instance, many of these reports originate with the SPLC, and
Reason has linked approvingly to that group at least twice
(including recently).
And, just this week, the
CATO Institute is promoting amnesty (and being deceptive about
it). Amnesty would give even more power to the far-left and racial
power groups, increasing their ability to scream about
"hate".
I don't think Reason's hands are exactly clean in this matter.
24AheadDotCom|8.14.09 @ 5:26PM|#
Also: guess which Reason Contributing Editor was one of the sources for the DHS's rightwing extremists report, right alongside those who scream "hate!"
|8.14.09 @ 5:32PM|#
Or maybe the racists in this country are upset about having
a black president.
The only color that upsets me is red and the sundry hues thereof.
Hence my alarm at Obama. If that upsets you, sorry.
Guys waving signs threatening the President - no matter who (s)he
may be - get no sympathy from me when the Secret Service pulls up
to their houses, but I resent being lumped into their
pathology.
Michael Ejercito|8.14.09 @ 6:04PM|#
JB what a hack you are. If the rightwing nutcases start shooting, it will not be the fault of the mainstream media and the "left." And nobody will see them as patriots but as fanatical domestic terrorists, and the movement will completely disintegrate.
So when protesters used violence to shut down Tom Tancredo's speech
at UNC, the pro-illegal alien movement completely
disintegrated?
|8.15.09 @ 2:11AM|#
what's really crazy is that they are bending themselves into
pretzels to defend a health care bill that DOESN'T EVEN EXIST !!
there are at least five different versions being bounced back and
forth between committees..and barack, as eager as he is to ram
ANYthing through, hasn't actually signed off on any of them. yet
the apologist barackies are foaming at the mouth at the 'racist
loons' who have serious questions and mis-givings.
welcome to bizarro-obamaland !
James A. Gibson|8.23.09 @ 8:47PM|#
The only people fomenting violence and threatening the
well-being of others are Zer0bambi's SEIU and ACORN thugs, bused in
to Town Hall meetings to make trouble for chimps like you to
screech about.
These meetings are otherwise populated by legitimate, justifiably
frustrated voters showing up to let their elected representatives
know that, finally, they are paying attention, and aren't about to
sit still for a Federal Government takeover of every aspect of our
lives.
Keep insulting and micharacterizing us. You only marginalize
yourselves with this transparent scam.
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