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WaPo: Joker Poster is Racist (And So Are You)
Oh, the joys of
pseudo-intellectual journalism. In a world where deep, cultural
insights are a dime a dozen, Philip Kennicott over at The
Washington Post
gives us his take on the recent appearance of anonymously
posted Joker/Obama signs:
So why the anonymity? Perhaps because the poster is ultimately a racially charged image. By using the "urban" makeup of the Heath Ledger Joker, instead of the urbane makeup of the Jack Nicholson character, the poster connects Obama to something many of his detractors fear but can't openly discuss. He is black and he is identified with the inner city, a source of political instability in the 1960s and '70s, and a lingering bogeyman in political consciousness despite falling crime rates.
Forget socialism, this poster is another attempt to accomplish an association between Obama and the unpredictable, seeming danger of urban life....
Obama, like the Joker and like the racial stereotype of the black man, carries within him an unknowable, volatile and dangerous marker of urban violence, which could erupt at any time. The charge of socialism is secondary to the basic message that Obama can't be trusted, not because he is a politician, but because he's black.
Kennicott does make a strong point that the poster's message is muddled. The Joker could more accurately be described as an anarchist than anything else. So the connection between the Joker and socialism really isn't there. The best one could argue is maybe that Obama's ultimate goal is socialism, yet he's trying to "trick" us into thinking that's not his plan at all—or something like that.
But regardless of what the intended message of the poster is, the immediate jump to racism is just too far-fetched. The only reason Kennicott made the connection to race is because he was looking for it. The poster is about Obama and socialism and maybe the dangers of messy lipstick application. But not race. Seeing racism here, there, and everywhere doesn't make the accuser sound intellectual, just ignorant.
|8.6.09 @ 12:39PM|#
You know what poster I want to see? the "hope" poster with the word "hope" replaced with "debt." Will someone with more search skill than I get a hold of that for me? Thanks. I owe you a hot dog.
Gul Dukat|8.6.09 @ 12:43PM|#
I might end up printing out and (in an easily removable manner!) taping that on the front door of local gm and chrysler dealerships.
|8.6.09 @ 12:43PM|#
Joker --> urban --> white facepaint --> black -->
racism
OK, I'd like for Kennicott to please show his work on this
equation.
|8.6.09 @ 12:44PM|#
This reminds me of all of the thumb sucking editorials that were done claiming that the Lord of the Rings movies were racist because Orcs were really black people. Normal people saw the movie and thought "cool Orcs". Enlightened, educated progressives saw the movie and saw horrible dark skinned evil flesh eating creatures and thought "black people". They are the ones who immediately associate any negative connotation of any message with black people. But the rest of us who don't think that way are all racists.
Abdul|8.6.09 @ 12:47PM|#
Seeing racism here, there, and everywhere doesn't make the
accuser sound intellectual, just ignorant.
Oh, I see. Ignorant. Right. And what oppressed minority has been
consistently denigrated and sterotyped as ignorant? I can hear your
dog whistles. You might as well just come right out and say it: you
hate Obama because he's half-Hawaiian.
PC|8.6.09 @ 12:48PM|#
Methinks that without these effeminate and overly sensitive white liberals we would actually be in a post racial era.
|8.6.09 @ 12:49PM|#
Seeing racism here, there, and everywhere doesn't make the
accuser sound intellectual, just ignorant.
Or paranoid.
|8.6.09 @ 12:50PM|#
I call BS on the notion that if they used Nicholson's Joker makeup people wouldn't see racism. They would say he was made to look like a jockey lawn ornament since that movie is 20 years old and it's been surpassed by a more relevant replacement in pop culture. This is the strangest leap to racism I've seen in a while.
|8.6.09 @ 12:51PM|#
I don't know about anyone else, but my brain don't work that way. In my experience, most people assume the simplest explanation first (Occam's Razor) and that would be that the artist thinks Obama is a socialist joker. The contemporary Joke makeup was probably chosen for the simple reason that it would be more immediately recognizable.
Fluffy|8.6.09 @ 12:51PM|#
It's necessary to overthink things when you're trying to
bullshit people.
The Joker isn't "urban". The Joker is supposed to be an evil
psychopath. Full stop. I agree that he has anarchistic tendencies,
but those aren't relevant to this poster. He wears face paint, but
that's not relevant to this poster other than the fact that it
makes the reference recognizable.
The poster says, "Obama is an evil psychopath and a villain."
That's it. A bit over the top, but not racist.
Tomcat1066|8.6.09 @ 12:51PM|#
"By using the "urban" makeup of the Heath Ledger Joker, instead
of the urbane makeup of the Jack Nicholson character, the poster
connects Obama to something many of his detractors fear but can't
openly discuss. He is black and he is identified with the inner
city, a source of political instability in the 1960s and '70s, and
a lingering bogeyman in political consciousness despite falling
crime rates. "
Or perhaps it's because Ledger's Joker was truly terrifying while
Nicholson's was just fun, and they're trying to make the
connotation that Obama is terrifying.
Or perhaps Ledger's Joker wanted to destroy the entire social
order, just like Obama seems to want.
Or...aw hell, I can do this shit all day and STILL not find racism
an easy leap to make.
hmm|8.6.09 @ 12:51PM|#
It happens all the time. I see it weekly. White, often liberal
minded (but not limited to just the bunnyhuggers) make the
immediate jump to racism in many situations. It's a default
judgment in the minds of many people black and white.
Something not touched on by the media is that the Philly nut job at
first rooted for Obama in his blog in a racially charged post then
against him later. I found it kind of funny that if the guy had
mentioned anyone on the right it would have been page one above the
fold material. Instead no one even covered it. (at least that I
saw)
*not that I think it is story worthy to begin with, the hypocrisy
is what gets me.
Fluffy|8.6.09 @ 12:53PM|#
Also, we have every reason to assume that the person who put the poster up is an urbanite themselves. So it's very doubtful that the poster was trying to say, "Obama is urban and that's evil 'cause he's black!"
|8.6.09 @ 12:53PM|#
Anyone bold enough to challenge Obama and/or his policies is
going to have to face accusations of racism.
I'd like to see a spoof on the Obama-as-superman image, the one in
which he is ripping open his shirt to reveal an "O." The image as
is doesn't make much sense, because we already know he is Obama, so
revealing the "O" under his shirt is not exposing his secret
identity or anything dramatic. Anyway, my spoof idea, which someone
has probably done already, is to have the hammer and sickle in
place of the "O", or maybe Jimmy Carter's face, or something like
that.
Enyap|8.6.09 @ 12:53PM|#
Right because the Joker is the first thing that comes to mind when I hear the term inner city.
|8.6.09 @ 12:54PM|#
Portraying Obama as a character that has always been portrayed by white men in movies that had almost entirely white casts is associating him with the dark fearful aspects of black culture. Ah Ok.
kilroy|8.6.09 @ 12:56PM|#
I haven't seen the Ledger version but I do recall the scene in Nicholson's version where the Joker promises everyone "Free Money" if they come to the parade, then proceeds to gas everyone that shows up. Sounds like Obamacare to me.
|8.6.09 @ 12:56PM|#
I think on the reasons why the poster is so effective, despite its mixed message, and makes metrosexual liberals like Kennicot pea their pants, is that Obama for whatever reason has really dead looking eyes. I don't think his dead eyes are his fault or any indication of his personality. But, they are very dead looking. That makes the poster especially sinister looking. Do the same thing to a picture of someone without those eyes, GW Bush for example, and the poster would look funny not sinister.
Abdul|8.6.09 @ 12:58PM|#
Come to think of it, even though Batman's crimefighint is all
based in the inner-city, none of Batman's villians are black.
Joker, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Riddler, Scarecrow, Two
Face, Mr. Zsasz--all white as rice.
Maybe Batman's afriad of a racial profiling lawsuit?
|8.6.09 @ 12:58PM|#
Legate: Here you
go, make your own!
Seeing racism in this is almost as silly as something I read back
in 1977: Star Wars is sexist because tiny, sperm-like ships piloted
by men destroy a giant, egg-like Death Star.
The poster is brilliant, and I don't think the message is muddled,
just intriguingly elliptical. It's makes you stop and think about
it, which a "clearer message" might not.
|8.6.09 @ 12:59PM|#
these sandy vaginas see racists and corporate greed in all obama
opposition. the poster is racist and the town hall protesters are
bussed in by insurance companies.
it doesn't matter what the message is as long as you can demonize
the messenger.
LibertyTiger|8.6.09 @ 12:59PM|#
I don't know what's more offensive; being called a racist because I critical of Obama, or being compared to a violent sociopath, The Joker, because I'm an anarchist.
LiberyTiger|8.6.09 @ 1:01PM|#
One other thing, does Vanity Fair hate white people. http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/07/bush-as-joker.html
Federal Dog|8.6.09 @ 1:03PM|#
Kevin beat me to it. People hailed the Bush-Heath Ledger-Joker
tripe as high art.
Tripe's on the other foot now. Deal with it.
|8.6.09 @ 1:05PM|#
I, for one, give Mr. Kennicott mad props for figuring out how to
sneak a major placement of this poster into the WaPo. He correctly
determined that the best way to spread this meme was to put it in a
major media outlet, and that the only way to do so was to attack
it.
Millions of people will see the poster because of this article.
Well played, sir. Well played. The creator of the poster couldn't
have asked for more.
Jason|8.6.09 @ 1:06PM|#
Having not really seen many of the new Batman movies, I understood it as Obama in whiteface, as in Obama acting white in promoting socialism.
T|8.6.09 @ 1:08PM|#
Having not really seen many of the new Batman movies, I
understood it as Obama in whiteface, as in Obama acting white in
promoting socialism.
Well, that makes as much sense as the racism interpretation.
¢|8.6.09 @ 1:09PM|#
Every picture of Obama that doesn't purposely exaggerate his
blackness looks like Lou Reed, and Lou Reed is quintessentially
urban, i.e., black.
QED, yo.
Amber Waves|8.6.09 @ 1:10PM|#
Amber Waves | August 6, 2009, 12:41pm | #
"Not that I intend to start a threadjack here, but did anyone else
read the Washington Post article where they're now trying to push
the Obama = Joker poster as "racist"?"
I'd pay one hundred dollars for a tee-shirt imprinted with this
picture. One hundred dollars.
|8.6.09 @ 1:13PM|#
I'd like to see a poster of Obama as Dr. Evil with his pinky in his mouth and the text being "Fourteen triiiiilion dollars".
Barry Loberfeld|8.6.09 @ 1:14PM|#
For Leftists, all evil is mass evil -- "systemic,"
"institutional" evil -- against which only they stand. Just look at
how over these past decades American racism has contracted in
practice (largely because of the revolt against government-imposed
segregation) but exploded in Leftist theory. The [feminists'] "rape
culture" has also become a "racist society." It's gone from bigotry
being the province of an Archie Bunker to this being a nation of
Archie Bunkers -- and worse. Contemporary America is routinely
described by such figures as Julianne Malveaux ("two hundred
million white racists"), Joe Faegin ("every major aspect of life
[here] is shaped ... by racist realities"), and Maulana Karenga
("increasing racism and continuing commitment to white supremacy")
in terms honestly applicable to only apartheid or Nazism. But it's
a progression not without its own logic: The greater the evil of
the social masses, the greater the good of the socialist
elite.
FROM HERE
|8.6.09 @ 1:14PM|#
Don't you wish joe would come back to explain how willfully pig-headed we're all being by not acknowledging the obvious racism of that poster, then throw a hissy fit and leave again? The only thing better would be if it were Obama pictured as a joker-monkey hybrid.
Pete Seeger @ 90|8.6.09 @ 1:21PM|#
"Anyway, my spoof idea, which someone has probably done already,
is to have the hammer and sickle in place of the "O", or maybe
Jimmy Carter's face, or something like that."
If I had a sickle,
I'd sickle in the mor-or-ning,
I'd sickle in the eve-ning,
All over this land.
|8.6.09 @ 1:22PM|#
Can't we go back to simpler pre-racial times? Like when a portrait of George Bush formed using monkey heads, was projected on a giant billboard above the Holland tunnel in Manhattan?
|8.6.09 @ 1:23PM|#
Hmmm. If Heath Ledger's Joker make-up signaled to people that
Heath Ledger was metaphorically black, while Jack Nicholson's
signaled that Nicholson was metaphorically white, doesn't that make
the latest Batman movie, and Ledger himself, racist?
I mean, Ledger was the one who created the "urban" version of
Batman. I hate to speak ill of the dead, but I think that we should
call Ledger out on the racism of his Joker portrayal.
Saul Alinsky|8.6.09 @ 1:25PM|#
"it doesn't matter what the message is as long as you can
demonize the messenger."
I'm lovin' it!
|8.6.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Does anyone remember back toward the beginning of GWB's
presidency, there was an email going around that had several pairs
of images. Each pair contained a photo of GWB and a photo of a
chimpanzee with a look on his face similar to GWB's.
Can you imagine the racial outrage that would ensue if the
exact-same email were created and distributed regarding
Obama?
It's getting so that if Obama starts getting any bad press, all the
Dems have to do is create something like that (anonymously) and
then feign outrage at the racism. The press will eat it up with
lots of sympathetic coverage, all the while implying that it was
"those unenlightened, barbaric conservatives that created
this."
Ska|8.6.09 @ 1:27PM|#
If I photographed a steamy, chunky pile o' shit, would the WaPo
publish it? Because it seems like they'll fucking print
anything.
I really hope they get thousands of letters from readers describing
how far fetched this idea is.
Elemenope|8.6.09 @ 1:29PM|#
The poster isn't racist. It's just a non-sequitor and
stupid.
People hailed the Bush-Heath Ledger-Joker tripe as high
art.
Oh, yes, The ever nebulous "people". I don't know who "people" is,
but that one was stupid too, and made about as much sense.
Portraying any authority figure as the Joker (especially the Ledger
incarnation) strikes me as supremely confused and likely
idiotic.
|8.6.09 @ 1:30PM|#
I think the racism thing is quite a stretch. Should have just called the poster dumb and left it at that. Maybe "socialism" scares wingnuts because they are all old enough to remember the actual red scare. Thing is, it doesn't scare anyone else. Lots of people thought Obama was a socialist and voted for him anyway because the alternative was much worse.
|8.6.09 @ 1:30PM|#
"Oh, yes, The ever nebulous "people". I don't know who "people"
is,"
I can tell you. "People" are the ones who are now screaming loudest
about this being racist.
If you want to call it stupid, that is your right. And you may be
right. But screaming that it is racist is just idiotic.
|8.6.09 @ 1:31PM|#
Aren't both Jokers urban? I mean, they are both in Gotham City,
right? What the fuck makes Nicholson's Joken "urbane", as opposed
to "urban"?
What exactly is urbane or urban about white face paint?
|8.6.09 @ 1:32PM|#
No Tony. You are not afraid because you are too young to remember how bad it was in the 1970s. You also don't get it becaus you know little about the world beyond what you learned in high school and don't understand what socialist countries are actually like. Your ignorance would be cute if it wasn't so dangerous.
Gilbert Martin|8.6.09 @ 1:34PM|#
"The only reason Kennicott made the connection to race is
because he was looking for it"
And also because accusing people of racist in an attempt to
discredit them and relieve the accuser of any responsibility of
adressing the argrument or point the person is trying to make has
been part of the lefty playbook for many decades.
Elemenope|8.6.09 @ 1:38PM|#
And also because accusing people of racist in an attempt to
discredit them and relieve the accuser of any responsibility of
adressing the argrument or point the person is trying to
make...
So, um, what is the point that the poster is trying to make?
... has been part of the lefty playbook for many
decades.
Has been part of the political playbook for
decades. I think on the right the shut-down word is not "racist"
but "commie" or "socialist". Hey, look at that! Apropos.
|8.6.09 @ 1:38PM|#
"Jack...you...are my number one...GUY."
Both Jokers are "urban", of course--they both terrorize Gotham City
and are most likely from there originally, though the Ledger
Joker's origins are more...unclear. But that's all beside the
point.
Portraying any authority figure as the Joker (especially the
Ledger incarnation) strikes me as supremely confused and likely
idiotic.
This is true, but I doubt the creator of the poster was going for
any more than "The Joker is a bad dude, so by giving Obama the
paint, that says he's bad too." Obviously, a nihilistic/anarchistic
creature such as The Joker has nothing to do with authority.
Personally, I prefer Lex Luthor, but I don't really see how one
could paint Obama as a super-genius billionaire industrialist.
|8.6.09 @ 1:39PM|#
Pete Seeger
Your limmerick or song is racist! Everyone knows when you say
sickle you are referring to sickle cell.
|8.6.09 @ 1:39PM|#
By using the "urban" makeup of the Heath Ledger Joker,
instead of the urbane makeup of the Jack Nicholson
character
Dude!
Consult a mental health professional, pronto.
Amber Waves|8.6.09 @ 1:44PM|#
Just printed 12 color copies. Will be leaving them here and there...here and there...
|8.6.09 @ 1:48PM|#
Speaking in terms of art criticism, I think the Obama joker
poster is effective. It may not be as cerebral as the Hope poster,
but that's not a necessity for high art, any more than internal
consistency is.
1) It grabs you. If you see it on a street corner, you look at it,
because it's arresting.
2) It's simple. Obama, joker makeup, and the word
"socialism."
3) The juxtaposition is not really internally consistent, but
that's what makes it a juxtaposition.
4) The message is (imho): President Obama is scary and he might
kill you. Socialism is scary and might kill you. President Obama
represents socialism.
5) Assuming that's the message the artist was going for, I think
it's effective. On the other hand, if the artist meant it as a
positive commentary on Obama, I agree that it's not well
executed.
|8.6.09 @ 1:50PM|#
I
ran the photo over at Urkobold yesterday, solely because I
thought the reaction to the image was funny. As noted above, Bush
got similar treatment from Vanity Fair last year, and no
one freaked out.
Is it great art or even great parody? Probably not. But neither is
it racism. Presidents get criticized often, frequently in very
over-the-top ways. That's the job. And Bush and Obama have earned
far worse, in my opinion.
|8.6.09 @ 1:51PM|#
So, um, what is the point that the poster is trying to
make?
Obama is the face of socialism (Note that the caption is
"Socialism", not "Socialist.")
Obama is a typical lefty elitist who wants to tear down the
institutions of American society (as the Joker says, "I just want
to see the world burn").
Obama's public image (thoughtful, post-partisan, blah blah puke) is
a facade, symbolized by the full-face make-up.
At heart, Obama is a thug who learned his trade in Chicago and has
surrounded himself with Daleyite thugs.
How's that?
I like it. Its elliptical, as someone said above, eye-catching, and
ambiguous, allowing people to project on it. We know what's lurking
in Kennicott's subconscious after his little temper tantrum, don't
we?
|8.6.09 @ 1:52PM|#
Sometimes folks try to interpret at a level of depth that simply doesn't exist. This is generally accompanied by an intellectual lack of interpretive skill.
|8.6.09 @ 1:53PM|#
Pro,
I think it is better art than you think for the reasons JMann
points out above. But more than anything it is couragous and
subversive. We live in a country where the entire media elite and
the entire artistic culture can't suck this guy's cock hard enough.
To make such an over the top poster and post it in LA of all places
is very subversive and couragous. For that reason, it is a great
poster.
|8.6.09 @ 1:56PM|#
FWIW, I don't think Obama is some socio-fascist megalomaniac trying to destroy the world by destroying the U.S. I see him more as Gilligan. A fairly simple guy that is trying to make things better for all who just keeps fucking things up.
|8.6.09 @ 1:56PM|#
Well, art appreciation is subjective. I like the reaction it's
getting, though. Obama would be fair game for this sort of thing,
even if he were a good president. Since he's proving God-awful,
well, we're entitled to mock him.
And there was much gnashing of teeth and scratching of the
scalp.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 1:57PM|#
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I mean, wait a minute,
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
Does the guy not know that the Joker is white? That in both
versions the Joker acts up in a city, not just a city but an
archetypical city? Holy shit this is the most laughable thing
ever...
|8.6.09 @ 1:59PM|#
I thought the connection had to do with the fact that Heath
Ledger ODed on prescription drugs and under Obama's socialized
medicine plan, such tragic deaths would be reduced.
You're trying to tell me this poster is ANTI Obama? Ledger got an
Oscar nomination for this, it's not like they used DeVito's
Penguin.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 1:59PM|#
The Joker could be many things, but a symbol of urban violence
that implies black people committing that violence?
You couldn't come up with that shit if you were on acid.
|8.6.09 @ 2:00PM|#
If he's Gilligan, who is the Skipper?
Biden, of course! But who is The Professor?
D.D. Driver|8.6.09 @ 2:01PM|#
The poster is both provacative and subject to differing
interpretations.
There is a word for this phenomenon: art.
Personally, I think the poster is a swipe at cheeseball sloganeer
Shepard Fairey and Obama is just collateral damage.
In any event, I love how the lefties decry the artists as a
dangerous racists and then wonder why she remains anonymous.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:02PM|#
"At heart, Obama is a thug"
What kind of skinny pussy does one have to be to see Barack Obama
as a thug?
Do people know the meaning of that word? A thug is like wht Rocky
started out as in the first movie.
|8.6.09 @ 2:02PM|#
MNG,
You're not even trying. I bet you're wearing a shirt with that
picture right now, laughing at our ignorance.
I don't know why, but this reminds me of the
old National Lampoon cover with the t-shirt that offends
women.
Episiarch,
Gore?
|8.6.09 @ 2:03PM|#
He is not Gilligan. He is more like a non-recurring charecter in Fantasy Island. Every episode of Fantasy Island had the same theme; people get what they wish for only to regret getting it. Obama is moderately intelligent and overly earnest. He really thinks that if only he can shove his vision of the world down the country's throat everything will be wonderful. The difference is that unlike the charcters on Fantasy Island who always walked away wiser after their fantasy turns into a nightmare, Obama will no doubt blame every one else and never question whether perhaps his fantasy wasn't such a good idea.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:03PM|#
Epi I think the Energy Sec. is some Nobel Prize winner in
Physics ain't he? He can be the prof.
I was wondering who Ginger is...
|8.6.09 @ 2:05PM|#
""Urban makeup"? Is this what the gangs are wearing these
days?"
You're onto something here, J. Remember the Baseball Furies in
their fabulous make-up from the late '70's move The Warriors. Oh,
and those Insane Clown Posse kids. Face painting -- very gritty and
urban; not just for tykes at suburban street fairs anymore.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 2:06PM|#
It's so nice of Reason to continue to let that retarded Tony fella post here.
|8.6.09 @ 2:06PM|#
"What kind of skinny pussy does one have to be to see Barack
Obama as a thug?
Do people know the meaning of that word? A thug is like wht Rocky
started out as in the first movie."
Apparently you don't. Being a thug does not have to mean you are
physically imposing. It is come to mean the a person who uses force
and intimidation to get their way. Obama is very much a political
thug.
Warty|8.6.09 @ 2:06PM|#
Good point, B.P. If the artist really wanted to be offensive, he would have made Obama into a juggalo.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:06PM|#
Pro
Whatever, I think Kennicott's article to be incredibly stupid...The
Joker represents Chaos, the chaos that lies barely under the
surface of most individuals and society in general...You people
have read the Killing Joke.
JB|8.6.09 @ 2:07PM|#
So, um, what is the point that the poster is trying to
make?
Pair the image with this famous chart:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/
Al Queda couldn't do this much damage in their wildest dreams. I
don't know what others have gotten out of his first 6 months, but
to me Obama sure comes across as a madman bent on destroying
America.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:08PM|#
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thug
Thug, a person, often a criminal, who treats others violently and
roughly, especially for hire. Often a member of a gang, as an
enforcer in organized crime
EJM|8.6.09 @ 2:09PM|#
That in both versions the Joker acts up in a city, not just
a city but an archetypical city?
The thing that surprises me the most, now that I think about it, is
that absolutely nobody here (even in the wake of the Gilligan's
Island references) has brought up Cesar Romero's
portrayal of the Joker.
|8.6.09 @ 2:09PM|#
"Portraying any authority figure as the Joker (especially the
Ledger incarnation) strikes me as supremely confused and likely
idiotic."
Talk about supremely confused...
|8.6.09 @ 2:10PM|#
MNG,
I think the word "thug" has taken on a broader meaning that that.
It has come to mean someone who uses intimidation to get their way.
I mean when you have the full force of the government and state run
media behind you, it is not exactly like your stature means
much.
|8.6.09 @ 2:11PM|#
absolutely nobody here (even in the wake of the Gilligan's
Island references) has brought up Cesar Romero's portrayal of the
Joker.
That was camp, dude. Doesn't have the same cache for insulting
someone politically.
|8.6.09 @ 2:12PM|#
"John
Obama intimidates you? WTF?"
No. But lots of thugs don't. The test is not whether they
inditimdate a single person, but the methods that they use. In the
political contest, Obama is a thug. He has intention of working
with anyone who doesn't agree with him. He belittles and creates
straw men out of anyone who has an opposing view point. He has told
his supporters to "get in the face" of people who disagree with
him. He has millions of creepy cult like followers.
No Obama may not be out breaking kneecaps, but at least in the
metaphorical sense of his political tactics, he is very much a
Chicago thug.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:12PM|#
Dudes, the campiest Joker of all time was the incarnation in the Scooby-Doo meets Batman and Robin movies.
proud libitard|8.6.09 @ 2:13PM|#
I think some are missing the point. You guys do realize that all
the dailykoz'ers think that calling someone a socialist is code
word for racist thought. Idiots.
So, if that poster is racist what about my picture I did back right
before the election? Note: gratuitous plug for my blog! :)
obama's vision
I guess I'm racist too, huh?
|8.6.09 @ 2:13PM|#
Yeah, it's a stupid article. Making hay out of an artist
focusing on the very recent and quite iconic Heath Ledger Joker
rather than the much older Nicholson one--I don't even get
it.
About the thug bit, I think it's okay for libertarians to throw
that term around some, even if it's a little over the top. Ignore
the rule of law, and, yeah, I think you're a thug.
EJM,
I was, until you said that. Jack gave him a lot of credit for the
character back in the day.
|8.6.09 @ 2:13PM|#
MNG,
When your chief of staff brags about never letting a crises go to
waste, you are a thug, at least in the politcal sense.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:14PM|#
"he is very much a Chicago thug"
That is one crazy metaphor!
Help police, this thug is creating a straw man of me for my
opposing view points!
|8.6.09 @ 2:15PM|#
Just thought I'd point out that the Joker was a nihilist not an
anarchist.
Huge difference.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:16PM|#
Just because someone might think something is constitutional
that you don't that doesn't make them a thug.
I have to say the last thing I would call George W Bush is a
"thug." Hell, even Nixon was not a thug (though some of his
operatives would probably fit the bill).
Jesus.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:17PM|#
"When your chief of staff brags about never letting a crises go
to waste, you are a thug, at least in the politcal sense."
Help police, this thug is trying to get policy passed in the wake
of national sentiment being stirred up!
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:20PM|#
Definitions of thug on the Web:
hood: an aggressive and violent young criminal
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
A criminal who treats others violently and roughly, especially for
hire; en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thug
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:21PM|#
"I'd accuse Bush of thuggery."
Seriously, that makes about as much sense to me as accusing him of
"unicorny-ness."
In a political sense, of course!
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:22PM|#
The problem here is, if Bush and Obama are thugs, then what term do you use for someone like Mussolini? Extra-thug?
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:22PM|#
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thug
Thug, a person, often a criminal, who treats others violently and
roughly, especially for hire. Often a member of a gang, as an
enforcer in organized crime"
Shut the Fuck Up MNG. You grow ever more tiresome.
Timmy|8.6.09 @ 2:23PM|#
Barry-O: Nice healt plan you got dere fella . . I'd be a
real shame if sumpin happen to it wooden it . . .
Thug
|8.6.09 @ 2:23PM|#
Uh, "thug" is based on Idian (East) origins. Indians can have
dark skin. Therefore, the use of the term "thug" is racist.
Hey, I'm getting the hang of this!
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:24PM|#
"You grow ever more tiresome."
I imagine you think the same of facts and logic, why pick on the
middle man?
Federal Dog|8.6.09 @ 2:24PM|#
"A fairly simple guy that is trying to make things better for
all who just keeps fucking things up."
I have seen no evidence that his goal is anything more than mere
self-aggrandizement. And far from trying to make things better for
all, he is completely willing to damage other people to attain that
goal.
|8.6.09 @ 2:24PM|#
"The problem here is, if Bush and Obama are thugs, then what
term do you use for someone like Mussolini? Extra-thug?"
Sociopathic killer.
birdman |8.6.09 @ 2:24PM|#
"I sense great vulnerability. A man-child crying out for love. An innocent orphan in the post-modern world." "I see a parasite. A sexually depraved miscreant who is seeking only to gratify his basest and most immediate urges." "His struggle is man's struggle. He lifts my spirit." "He is a loathesome, offensive brute. Yet I can't look away." "He transcends time and space." "He sickens me." "I love it." "Me too."
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:25PM|#
"John
Obama intimidates you? WTF?"
When a man's henchman ask you to esnitch on your neighbors, you
might be a thug.
wingnutx|8.6.09 @ 2:25PM|#
By using the "urban" makeup of the Heath Ledger Joker,
instead of the urbane makeup of the Jack Nicholson
character,
...the artist shows that he hasn't been living under a rock for the
past 20 years.
Staying current is racist.
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:26PM|#
Make that -- when your henchman ask people to esnitch on their neighbors, you might be a thug.
|8.6.09 @ 2:28PM|#
I don't think many people under the age of 30 have any idea there is a Joker that wasn't played by Ledger.
|8.6.09 @ 2:29PM|#
It's quite simple. Mussolini was a jack-booted thug. Obama is
not jack-booted.
It's hyperbole, man, just like the image!
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:29PM|#
Look, words have meanings folks. Obama is a nerdy, slight little politician. He's not threatening to break your kneecaps or something for goodness sakes.
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:30PM|#
"I imagine you think the same of facts and logic, why pick on
the middle man?"
Anyone posting dictionary cut and paste is an ass. That's a fairly
universal viewpoint.
|8.6.09 @ 2:31PM|#
He's not threatening to break your kneecaps or something for
goodness sakes.
There are people on the payroll for that.
|8.6.09 @ 2:31PM|#
I thought he was the chosen one MNG? Now he is a nerd? My how the mighty have fallen. Look, if his creepy ass followers can have posters of him looking suspiciously like Jesus Christ, I think his critics are allowed to be liberal with their language.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:31PM|#
Yeah, Pro, hyperbole, I get it, but that kind of thing is
silly.
I mean, if Obama is a thug, then who that disagrees with you
politically and wants to change policy in a way that you disagree
with is not a thug? Now everyone who doesn't agree with you is a
"thug." That can't be helpful for anything...
|8.6.09 @ 2:33PM|#
Look, if I had called Bush a Nazi, it wouldn't have literally meant that he was a member of the National Socialist German Worker's Party. It wouldn't even mean, necessarily, that he was engaging in Naziesque behavior. It might just mean that I thought he had some tyrannical tendencies. No reasonable person would think I meant that he was really a Nazi or akin to the Nazis.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:33PM|#
Obama, like most political leaders with any success, has some creepy followers among his many followers. Why is that so bothersome to some of you?
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:34PM|#
I have to say I'm a pretty big critic of Bush and I would never
think to call him Nazi. Honest.
Not so smart? Simplistic? Wrong-headed? Yes.
Nazi? WTF?
|8.6.09 @ 2:34PM|#
"I mean, if Obama is a thug, then who that disagrees with you
politically and wants to change policy in a way that you disagree
with is not a thug? Now everyone who doesn't agree with you is a
"thug." That can't be helpful for anything..."
Okay. Then do you agree that it is unhelpful for people to describe
those who are against Obamacare as " people who appear to have been
sitting in their attics since the anti-tax tea parties, listening
for signs of alien aircraft. But on the bright side, they've
finally got something to distract them from the president's birth
certificate."
If calling OBama a thug is so bad for civic discourse, isn't Ms.
Collins' little rant and all of those like it in the media
worse?
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:35PM|#
"I mean, if Obama is a thug, then who that disagrees with you
politically and wants to change policy in a way that you disagree
with is not a thug? Now everyone who doesn't agree with you is a
"thug." That can't be helpful for anything..."
Obtuse much?
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:36PM|#
"Obama, like most political leaders with any success"
[citation needed]
MattXIV|8.6.09 @ 2:36PM|#
Mr. Cent is not kidding about the Lou Reed resemblance- if you changed the hair back to black, took off most of the lipstick, and converted it to black and white, you'd pretty much nail the photo on the cover of Transformer. Maybe with "Vicious" as the caption? Plus the album's sexually ambigious themes would allow moronic WaPo writers to accuse the poster of being both homophobic and racist for ill defined reasons.
|8.6.09 @ 2:36PM|#
"I have to say I'm a pretty big critic of Bush and I would never
think to call him Nazi. Honest."
The entire Democratic establishment called him a Nazi and worse. I
had people accuse me of being a chickenhawk for supporting the war,
despite the fact that I actually served in said war. I never heard
one peep out anyone on the left or the Democratic Party saying that
some of that stuff was out of line. No one said a damn word. And
now that Obama is in power, you are Mr. Civil discourse. Get the
fuck out of here. It is a bit late for that.
|8.6.09 @ 2:37PM|#
I'm defensive because pretty much everything I post at Urkobold
is over-the-top nonsense. For instance, I don't actually think
monkeys will conquer the world.
Not until they join forces with the robots, anyway.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:37PM|#
John
To say that about "people who are against Obamacare" would, yes, be
most unhelpful to the civic discourse. It's moronic.
Nancy Pelosi|8.6.09 @ 2:37PM|#
"If calling OBama a thug is so bad for civic discourse, isn't
Ms. Collins' little rant and all of those like it in the media
worse?"
But they are wearing swastikas. Swastikas!
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:38PM|#
"The entire Democratic establishment called him a Nazi and
worse."
What? Now I'm going to have to appear pedantic and ask for a cite
of that...
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 2:39PM|#
I don't think Obama is a thug, unless we get all anarchist up in here and claim that ALL agents of the government are de facto thugs (and i'm not saying they're not). I think he's trying to push a lot of really terrible policies, and he's too arrogant to see that he's in over his head or accept that his popular support is slipping, and he's not as bright as his proponents think he is. But i don't think he's a thug. Like MNG said, he's a nerdy, slight politician.
|8.6.09 @ 2:40PM|#
Yeah MNG, I guess you were just outraged by this
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/politics/2008/07/bush-as-joker.html
And this
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bighollywood/2009/08/03/obama-as-joker-selective-outrage-from-la-weekly/
or this
http://fashionablygeek.com/t-shirts/george-bush-drinks-the-delicious-blood-of-democracy/
Just shut up. Really. If you didn't raise hell about those things,
then you can't say a word about this. Period.
Narcissist Hour|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
I'm unemployed but I'll offer my expert opinion free of
charge:
This particular image of a joker is current and iconic
Socialism is a joke
Mr. Obama is advocating socialist health care "reform."
Bigg Blakk Dikk|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
Obama may not be a thug but his ramping up the Afghan war sans any military service is a textbook definition of chickenhawk (which I won't cut and paste here).
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
Pro
You know I enjoy Urkobold's sense of humor, and I'm not prone to
political correctness (I regularly make jokes here about the
retarded for Pete's sake). I just think thug is, even as an
over-the-top name, such an innappropriate name for such a little
nerdy guy who goes "uh" all the time between big words when he's
talking.
|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
I'm defensive because pretty much everything I post at
Urkobold is over-the-top nonsense.
But- and I know this because I foolishly followed your earlier
link- you have a certain somebody monitoring you, ever-ready to
scold you for your transgressions.
Speciesist.
|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
He has [no] intention of working with anyone who doesn't agree with him. He belittles and creates straw men out of anyone who has an opposing view point. He has told his supporters to "get in the face" of people who disagree with him. He has millions of creepy cult like followers.
Woah talk about projection. Replace he with she and I'd swear we
were on the Ayn Rand thread.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 2:41PM|#
I should add that politicians are WAY more harmful than run-of-the-mill thugs.
Civil Discourse|8.6.09 @ 2:42PM|#
"you are Mr. Civil discourse. Get the fuck out of here"
I resent that remark.
William|8.6.09 @ 2:42PM|#
"Oh, the joys of pseudo-intellectual journalism."
Who would know better than the pathetic propagandists who write for
Reason?
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:43PM|#
John
I don't of know any prominent Deomcratic officials who called Bush
a Nazi. If you know of one then you should cite it, or perhaps you
should shut up.
Actors in Hollywood are hardly "the entire Democratic
establishment."
|8.6.09 @ 2:43PM|#
"The entire Democratic establishment called him a Nazi and
worse."
What? Now I'm going to have to appear pedantic and ask for a cite
of that..."
Cynthia McKinney said he was behind 0-11. Howard Dean said that it
was a theory that hadn't been proven that Bush was possibly behind
9-11. Spike Lee said that Bush blew up the dykes in New Orleans to
kill black people. Any number of leftist celbrities endorsed 9-11
conspiracy theories and were never called out for it or suffered
any kind of reprobation from the Democratic Party. The list goes on
and on.
Come on MNG. Where the fuck were you for the last 8 years?
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 2:44PM|#
Right on cue, Lefiti shows up. Hey, Lefiti! Did you ever get that rolling pin out of your ass?
|8.6.09 @ 2:44PM|#
P Brooks,
I wasn't going to call him out. He's always followed our site, and
only chastises us for our libertarian ways on rare occasion.
MNG,
Bushitler?
Obama isn't a thug. But he is an authoritarian wannabe, just like
his father (Bush) before him.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:45PM|#
"I should add that politicians are WAY more harmful than
run-of-the-mill thugs."
I might be inclined to agree with that. But most are hardly thugs.
A synonym for a thug is a "tough." That hardly fits any politician
I can think of.
|8.6.09 @ 2:46PM|#
THIS IS RACIST!!! Portraying Obama as anything other than Christ, Buddha or Mohamed is racist. Wait...er..uh..actually portraying Obama in a turban is racist too. So therefore portraying Obama as anything other than Christ or Buddha is racist. Anyone who disagrees is racist too.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:46PM|#
Cynthia McKinney and Spike Lee are the "entire Democratic
establishment?"
Who knew?
Ted Kennedy\'s Liver|8.6.09 @ 2:47PM|#
" A synonym for a thug is a "tough." That hardly fits any
politician I can think of."
Bring it on!
I, Kahn O\'Clast|8.6.09 @ 2:48PM|#
Legate,
If you are still reading this, check your email. I sent you a
"Debt" poster.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:48PM|#
I guess Tom Tancredo and Ted Nugent are "the entire Republican
establishment."
C'mon John, you put your foot in your mouth, it was stupid, and now
your toes are leaving a bad taste in your mouth. Just admit de-feet
and lets move on to some of your other stupid partisan points.
kinnath|8.6.09 @ 2:49PM|#
Obama is not a thug. He is self-righteous do-gooder which makes him far more dangerous than any street thug.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 2:49PM|#
That hardly fits any politician I can think of.
That's my point, MNG. Few people involved in politics in this
country are, themselves, tough enough to aspire to thughood.
But then, your average thug rarely implements massively incompetent
stimulus schemes, or invades a foreign country based on faulty
intelligence. So.
|8.6.09 @ 2:49PM|#
Lets not forget the DNC's four year love affair with Michael
Moore. The Dems never once stood up and said that any criticism was
out of bounds. They encouraged it and rewarded people made the most
outlandish statements.
And now, someone does one poster and it is dangerous and racist.
Well fuck that. Stop insulting our intelligence MNG.
|8.6.09 @ 2:49PM|#
I like definition number 2 for "thug", which was referred to
upthread: "(sometimes initial capital letter) one of a
former group of professional robbers and murderers in India who
strangled their victims."
You know, not to dampen the side thread, but the image doesn't say
"thug." Was the Joker a thug, exactly, as portrayed in The Dark
Knight?
Meta4|8.6.09 @ 2:49PM|#
"THIS IS RACIST!!! Portraying Obama as anything other than
Christ, Buddha or Mohamed is racist."
To me, he looks just like Mohammad in this picture. I'd add more,
but I am prparing for certain outrage in the Muslim world.
Meta4|8.6.09 @ 2:50PM|#
"Cynthia McKinney and Spike Lee are the "entire Democratic
establishment?"
Who knew?"
You git joe living up your ass these days? Give it a rest.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:51PM|#
Pro
I would not call the Ledger Joker a thug. The Burton Joker was a
thug before he became the Joker.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:52PM|#
John's pedaling so fast away from his initial claims that he has been declared an entrant in next years tour de France.
kinnath|8.6.09 @ 2:52PM|#
The worst thing that a thug could do to you is maybe stick a shiv in your liver. Obama has the capability of fucking up the whole world at this point.
smartass sob|8.6.09 @ 2:53PM|#
You're trying to tell me this poster is ANTI Obama? Ledger
got an Oscar nomination for this, it's not like they used DeVito's
Penguin.
DeVito's Penguin has been reserved for use if Huckabee should ever
become president. ;-)
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:53PM|#
"kinnath just made my point more succinctly than i did."
And I agree with both of you that a politician can effect much more
damage than any thug. But thug for a politician is usually not just
an over the top thing, it's a stupidly innappropriate
appellation.
|8.6.09 @ 2:54PM|#
MNG,
Name one Democrat who ever criticized them or contradicted what
McKinney and Spike Lee said? There was so much over the top
bullshit that came out in the last 8 years and the Dems never once
tried to stop it and did everything they could to benefit from it.
That gives them no standing to complain about virtually any
criticism launched at BO.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:56PM|#
OK, so now it's not "The entire Democratic establishment called
him a Nazi and worse" but rather "No Democrats ever criticized
people who called him a Nazi."
John, new spokesperson for Schwinn.
|8.6.09 @ 2:56PM|#
MNG,
I agree. So, to determine the appropriateness of the Joker image
being associated with Obama, we need to agree upon the word that
does accurately describe Heath's Joker.
|8.6.09 @ 2:58PM|#
Pretty sad, MNG. The best you can do to defend your Dear Leader is play pedantic around the definition of a word. WEAK.
|8.6.09 @ 2:59PM|#
I am not backing off of anything. The Dems endorsed and welcomed
people who called Bush a Nazi and worse. Among Democratic circles,
it was quite acceptable to call Bush a Nazi and was done all the
time. I saw it.
I love this rewrite of history. Democrats were totally reasonable
in their oppostion to Bush. No one ever said or published anything
offensive about him. No one ever lied. Nothing.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 2:59PM|#
sage
Where do you get the idea that Obama is my Dear Leader???? I hope
in the rich fantasy world you live that keeps you happy all chicks
have nice tits...
|8.6.09 @ 3:00PM|#
OK, so now it's not "The entire Democratic establishment called
him a Nazi and worse" but rather "No Democrats ever criticized
people who called him a Nazi."
They are functionally the same thing. If I hang around with and
encourage people who routinely drop the N word but don't do it
myself, am I any different than those who do? If anything I am
worse. At least my friends are honest about who they are.
Narcissist Hour|8.6.09 @ 3:00PM|#
William | August 6, 2009, 2:42pm | #
"Oh, the joys of pseudo-intellectual journalism."
Who would know better than the pathetic propagandists who write for
Reason?
"Pathetic"? I wouldn't say that. "Propagandists"? Of course.
Reason's raison d'etre is propaganda. We're in the
age of propaganda.
One of these things is not lik|8.6.09 @ 3:01PM|#
The entire Democratic establishment called him a Nazi and
worse
The Dems endorsed and welcomed people who called Bush a Nazi and
worse.
Trey|8.6.09 @ 3:02PM|#
"we need to agree upon the word that does accurately describe
Heath's Joker."
How about "stellar"?
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:02PM|#
I like Obama better than Bush sage, and that's about it, and
that ain't saying much....
I think you will find a lot of people that voted for him don't find
him to be any chosen one, or messiah. We just thought he was the
best of the choices. I voted against him in the primary and
actively worked on another candidate's campaign.
Warty|8.6.09 @ 3:03PM|#
So are we finally getting back to the levels of political hatred that we had back in the 1800s? I really, really hope so.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:04PM|#
But thug for a politician is usually not just an over the
top thing, it's a stupidly innappropriate appellation.
I sort of agree, but then we do live in a stupidly inappropriate
day and age.
|8.6.09 @ 3:04PM|#
MNG,
You really have turned into Joe. Howard Dean was never really a
truther. He just said on national TV, that there is a theory out
there that the Saudis tipped off Bush to 9-11 and he let it happen.
Now he didn't know that was true but some people think it. Give me
a fucking break. You and I and everyone else know exactly what Dean
was saying and that he was trying to put it in people's minds that
it was acceptable and possible that 9-11 was an inside job. If you
allow people to say and do things in your name and then do nothing
to criticize or distance yourself from them, you are endorsing and
owning those ideas.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:04PM|#
If Ledger is a nihlist then I can see the view that RC Dean
kicked upthread, you know liberals want to tear down America's
cherished institutions, Obama is a liberal, people who want to tear
down cherished institutions are nihlists, yada, yada, yada...
I mean, the Joker wasn't a socialist for goodness sake.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:07PM|#
John @ 3:04
Ever more pedaling...You're reaching like Mr. Fantastic here
John...
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:07PM|#
Folks, we've gotten way off the main point, which was "Slow Phil" Kennicott's blatant public display of coulrophobia.
|8.6.09 @ 3:09PM|#
Nihilist seems reasonable. Here's the dictionary entry for
"nihilism":
1. total rejection of established laws and institutions.
2. anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
3. total and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler's last years.
4. Philosophy.
a. an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
b. nothingness or nonexistence.
5. (sometimes initial capital letter) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.
6. annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, esp. as an aspect of mystical experience.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:10PM|#
We've gone from "The entire Democratic establishment called him
a Nazi and worse" to "Howard Dean said something that could have
the sly implication that Bush knew about 9/11 before hand."
John, you're a trooper, what can one say?
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:11PM|#
I think it fits perfectly Pro, that's the essence of Ledger's
performance.
Or, as my wife summed it up one day "he didn't give a shit about
anyone's well being, including his own."
|8.6.09 @ 3:13PM|#
Actually, we don't know the Joker's politics or economics. Too
bad Ledger isn't around to tell us. Maybe Nolan could?
Oh, and nihilist it is.
Quite a large number of the more vocal Democrats did throw around
the Nazi and Bushitler stuff during the last administration. I
think they mostly meant it as hyperbole, too. Mostly.
|8.6.09 @ 3:14PM|#
So, is Obama a nihilist? If he really plans to run America off the cliff as far as a Treasury default goes (yet to be determined or even determinable), then I might use that term.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:16PM|#
Pro
I think a lot of liberals and supporters of the Democrats threw the
"Bushitler" nonsense around, but I can't recall many if any
prominent Democratic official, elected or otherwise doing it.
There's a difference that's important there.
The latter represent Democratic voters more (they are the ones that
get elected over others or chosen), the former are nutty fringes of
the base.
MNG|8.6.09 @ 3:16PM|#
OK, gotta run. I ain't getting between Xeones and Warty.
And I mean that in every possible sense of the terms.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:17PM|#
I think they mostly meant it as hyperbole, too.
Mostly.
You obviously never met my dad, then. I say the word "bush" to my
old man, that vein comes out of his forehead and starts throbbing,
and i'm all JEEZ I WAS COMPLIMENTING THE NEW SHRUBBERY.
|8.6.09 @ 3:17PM|#
@ Xeones
"…and he's not as bright as his proponents think he is…"
...[A]nd he's not as bright as [HE] think[s] he is...
FTFY
|8.6.09 @ 3:19PM|#
Well, I don't think many GOP leaders are using that sort of
language, either.
What's interesting is that I don't think anyone would object to
virtually any politician being called a "whore."
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:19PM|#
By Odin's beard, Warty, i swear i will hunt you down and carve the blood eagle into your back.
|8.6.09 @ 3:20PM|#
Cease this bush-league semantic demagoggling.
Or I'll sic my armada of flying monkey-brained flesh eating robots
on you.
And don't even *think* of coming on my lawn, Boyo.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:20PM|#
Groovus, i was gonna insert that part as a parenthetical, but then i didn't.
|8.6.09 @ 3:23PM|#
"John @ 3:04
Ever more pedaling...You're reaching like Mr. Fantastic here
John..."
That is not a response that is an assertion. Do you not think that
it is true that when you embrace someone and do nothing to
contradict those views you own those views. It goes back to the
example of friends who drop the N word. If you don't say anything
and in fact praise these people, then you have endorsed their
views. It would be one thing if people like Lee had been excoriated
for what they said. But that is not what happened and you know
it.
|8.6.09 @ 3:26PM|#
(tosses Xenones 'The Macabre Twin-Axe'. +10 to dexterity, +50 to
flatulence)
Carve away. It has the finest of Nordic runes.
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 3:26PM|#
Legate Damar | August 6, 2009, 12:39pm | #
than ME, dammit.
"than I" was correct.
You wouldn't say "more skills than me have" you would say "more
skills than I have."
Warty|8.6.09 @ 3:30PM|#
The entire host of the Æsir will aid me in expelling you from Asgaard, Xeones. You are more foul than Fenrir.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:32PM|#
I'm composing the edda now, you smarmy son of a bitch:
Nú er blóðugr örn
breiðum hjörvi
Xeones, bana Wartyar
á baki ristinn.
Fár var fremri,
sá er fold rýðr,
hilmis nefi,
ok hugin gladdi...
Jokerman|8.6.09 @ 3:33PM|#
Oh, yes, The ever nebulous "people". I don't know who
"people" is, but that one was stupid too, and made about as much
sense. Portraying any authority figure as the Joker (especially the
Ledger incarnation) strikes me as supremely confused and likely
idiotic.
Imposing the rules of rhetoric on visual art? How unsophisticated
are you? It is like rereading George Will's column on the death of
Andy Warhol where the man just didn't get the fact Warhol wasn't a
fellow opinion page scribe.
|8.6.09 @ 3:35PM|#
Lets not forget the DNC's four year love affair with Michael Moore. The Dems never once stood up and said that any criticism was out of bounds. They encouraged it and rewarded people made the most outlandish statements.
Now this is just fucking stupid. Most of the "Democratic
establishment" is neoliberal, pro-corporate uselessness anyway. I
can't think of a single important Democratic politician who has
done anything but run far away from Michael Moore. Furthermore,
have you even watched a single one of his movies? How exactly do
his occasionally Oscar-winning documentaries compare to the
paranoid stupidity we find on the fringes of the right? I get so
tired of the lazy false equivalence which a lot of you guys are
guilty of. I consider the fringe of the left to be, say, Code Pink,
whose nefarious mission is to criticize a war everyone in the world
considers a mistake. The fringe of the right? Half the Republican
party at this point, who are willing to tolerate any intimation of
fascism as long as it is generated by someone with an (R) after
their name, but once Ds get in power, it's time for revolution.
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 3:35PM|#
lemenope | August 6, 2009, 1:38pm | #
And also because accusing people of racist in an attempt to discredit them and relieve the accuser of any responsibility of adressing the argrument or point the person is trying to make...
So, um, what is the point that the poster is trying to make?
... has been part of the lefty playbook for many decades.
Has been part of the political playbook for decades. I think on the right the shut-down word is not "racist" but "commie" or "socialist". Hey, look at that! Apropos.
My vote for thread winner.
Warty|8.6.09 @ 3:37PM|#
Xeones, I shall not even raise a runestone to your memory after I behead you in single combat.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:37PM|#
How exactly do his occasionally Oscar-winning documentaries
compare to the paranoid stupidity we find on the fringes of the
right?
They are really, really similar, actually. Tony, go look up what a
libertarian is before you post here again, lest you
continue to parade your ignorance.
|8.6.09 @ 3:38PM|#
You know, I'm starting to like the piece more than I initially did. There's something stark and--dare I say it?--nihilistic about it.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:39PM|#
Your threats are laughable, Warty, for it is your blood that will water the roots of mighty Yggdrasil, and your flesh that will make the ravens glad.
Federal Dog|8.6.09 @ 3:40PM|#
"I can't think of a single important Democratic politician who
has done anything but run far away from Michael Moore."
Well, off the top of my head, John Kerry gave him a seat of honor
at the 2004 Boston convention. He apparently believed that Moore
counted as a substantial endorsement in Democrat circles.
Fluffy|8.6.09 @ 3:40PM|#
How exactly do his occasionally Oscar-winning documentaries
compare to the paranoid stupidity we find on the fringes of the
right?
Considering the fact that Michael Moore made his reputation by
being what amounted to a stalker, I think we can certainly compare
that to the "thuggish behavior" that the tea party guys are being
accused of.
Show up at a political event held by a Congressional representative
to demonstrate = thug
Stalk a private citizen for a couple of years at his home, place of
work, and on social occasions = Award winning documentarian.
Is that about right?
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 3:41PM|#
John | August 6, 2009, 2:07pm | #
The Warriors. West Side Story for straight people.
You're kidding right?
It is the gayest movie made before that one batman movie with
George Clooney.
|8.6.09 @ 3:41PM|#
"How exactly do his occasionally Oscar-winning documentaries
compare to the paranoid stupidity we find on the fringes of the
right?"
Michael Moore insisted that Bush knew where Osama Bin Laden was but
the president was simply keeping him on ice. That is clearly just
like someone who shows up with a "No Socialized Medicine" townhall
meeting. God you are stupid Tony. Even MNG didn't try to claim
Moore was anything but an embarassment.
|8.6.09 @ 3:41PM|#
IIRC, Nicholson's Joker, before he released the Smilex gas,
declared: "This town needs an enema!"
Also keeping in mind that "juvenile deliquent" Jack Napier's
aptitudes included "fine art and chemistry."
It's a stretch, but certainly explains Obamacare to me the
relevance behind the pop culture reference. Except that the poster
in not fine art and as racist as a granola bar.
|8.6.09 @ 3:43PM|#
"You're kidding right?
It is the gayest movie made before that one batman movie with
George Clooney."
Really? It has been years since I have seen it. But I always
figured any movie where people use ball bats and tire irons on each
other, as opposed to West Side Story where they settle their
differences by singing and dancing, couldn't be that gay. But
perhaps The Warriors is just a side of gay culture I have never
seen.
Warty|8.6.09 @ 3:43PM|#
There is no place you can hide from my wrath, Xeoenes, for I shall pursue you even across the bifrǫst bridge if I must.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 3:45PM|#
Furthermore, o Wart-encrusted one, upon your death you will not even attain a seat in Valhalla; no, you will be taken by Hel to join the rest of the unworthy.
Jokerman|8.6.09 @ 3:48PM|#
But perhaps The Warriors is just a side of gay culture I
have never seen.
I direct your attention to the sublime offerings of Robert
Mapplethorpe, BYOL, just looking at the whip one can make your ass
cinch.
|8.6.09 @ 3:51PM|#
The warriors Micheal Beck, the lead protagonist of guys wearing
no shirts and leather vests, turned up in "Xanadu" after "The
Warriors"...
screams serious latent homosexualitay at the very least.
|8.6.09 @ 3:51PM|#
Xeones' shadow loomed on the sides of the rain-slicked alley as
Warty dodged between abandoned shopping carts and split-open
garbage bags. Sweat trickled down between Warty's shoulder blades
despite the cool night air. His breathing was ragged. He coughed
and Xeones' shadow shifted.
"W-W-W-Warty," Xeones voice echoed in the night-empty city streets,
"I'm coming for youuuuuuu." The knife gleamed in his hand. He
licked the blade, cutting a shallow groove into his tongue. He let
the blood fill his mouth as he chased the fleeing figure.
Warty ducked behind a dumpster to catch his breath. The frightened
rabbit of his heart beat madly in his chest. The alley smelled of
vomit and gardenias; he clapped a hand over his mouth to keep from
retching. As he rocked back and forth, gagging and beginning to
cry, a tremendous fart crept out--slow at first, then gathering
speed and volume and wetness.
What felt like thick rain sprayed down on Warty. Xeones had crept
onto the dumpster under cover of fart and had spit the blood out so
he could snarl. "The eagle," Xeones rasped, "I shall have your
lungs out and fuck your heart to mush."
kilroy|8.6.09 @ 3:52PM|#
I bet you could find some Chrysler bond holders that consider Obama a thug.
|8.6.09 @ 3:53PM|#
Strangely, I managed to write in the flatulence without having
seen Groovus Maximus' Fart-Axe.
Must be something about Warty.
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 3:59PM|#
Really? It has been years since I have seen it. But I always
figured any movie where people use ball bats and tire irons on each
other, as opposed to West Side Story where they settle their
differences by singing and dancing, couldn't be that gay. But
perhaps The Warriors is just a side of gay culture I have never
seen.
You've never watched MMA/the UFC?
Really?
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 4:00PM|#
As dubiously honored as i am to be featured in one of your stories, Sweet'n'Low, i have a quibble: a knife won't do for bringing the eagle because it would take too long to saw through Warty's ribs with the small blade, and he'd die of shock well before i could pull out his lungs. A broadsword, expertly wielded, is the best tool for the job.
|8.6.09 @ 4:06PM|#
Actually Xeones, a sternal saw, Falcetti rib spreader, Liston
knife and #11 blade on a #4 Adson Brown should do the trick nicely
;-)
I'll even custom engrave Nordic runes on 'em for ya.
|8.6.09 @ 4:09PM|#
Xeones, we must unite our swords against this foul menace
SugarFree.
Swear revenge all you want, but please don't talk about rubbing
your "swords" together over me. If I swung that way Epi would have
fucked me inside-out years ago.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 4:09PM|#
But Groovus, your tools... they lack honor. The ravens will not
be glad of a feast so prepared. Are you a servant of Loki?
As for Warty, he cannot call himself a warrior who would strike
down a bard for speaking truth.
|8.6.09 @ 4:10PM|#
"Tony, go look up what a libertarian is before you post here
again, lest you continue to parade your ignorance."
I love his ignorance parade float. It has a barnyard theme Tony and
two fat, pasty white rednecks engaged in testicular play.
DADIODADDY|8.6.09 @ 4:12PM|#
I'm confused, when Vanity Fair had the picture of Bush as the ledgerish Joker where was the outrage?
|8.6.09 @ 4:13PM|#
Servant of Loki? Never!
Though I did a prostate exam on him, strictly professional.
|8.6.09 @ 4:13PM|#
a knife won't do for bringing the eagle
When I re-post it, I'll give you a Fallout 3
Ripper.
|8.6.09 @ 4:13PM|#
"Urban makeup"? Is this what the gangs are wearing these
days?
Why, yes they are.
Chicken Bones of Justice|8.6.09 @ 4:16PM|#
"But I always figured any movie where people use ball bats and
tire irons on each other, as opposed to West Side Story where they
settle their differences by singing and dancing, couldn't be that
gay."
A Puerto Rican was shot dead, man.
Granted, they were dancing when it happened...
|8.6.09 @ 4:16PM|#
BTW IIRC, don't they have an Official Obama Administration deck
of cards? And who is the joker in that?
Gives a ironic slant on "playing the race card".
::ducks::
Chicken Bones of Justice|8.6.09 @ 4:19PM|#
"I bet you could find some Chrysler bond holders that consider
Obama a thug."
Agreed.
Xeones|8.6.09 @ 4:19PM|#
When I re-post it, I'll give you a Fallout 3
Ripper.
That is acceptable. One must keep abreast of the times.
jtuf|8.6.09 @ 4:20PM|#
He is black and he is identified with the inner
city
Hmm, born in Hawaii to a mother who was born in Kansas. His father
got into Harvard grad school. His mother was a professor with a PhD
in anthropology, which meant he spend part of his childhood abroad
while she was doing research. He attended ivy league schools for
both undergrad and grad school. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.
Jokerman|8.6.09 @ 4:20PM|#
DADIODADDY | August 6, 2009, 4:12pm | #
I'm confused, when Vanity Fair had the picture of Bush as the
ledgerish Joker where was the outrage?
In my pants.
Spoonman|8.6.09 @ 4:21PM|#
Amazingly, the comments on the WaPo site are even stupider than the article.
|8.6.09 @ 4:33PM|#
Hmm, born in Hawaii Kenya to a
mother who was maybe born in Kansas. His father
allegedly got into Harvard grad school. His mother
was a "professor" with a PhD in
anthropology, which meant he spend part of his childhood
abroad in a madrassa while she was
doing research preparing for jihad.
He attended ivy league schools for both undergrad and grad school
or so he says without providing transcripts.
Sorry, I'm just not seeing buying
it.
FTFY.
Chicken Bones of Justice|8.6.09 @ 4:34PM|#
A socialist system would NEVER have turn-around times like this.
Never.
"http://www.zazzle.com/barack_obama_joker_picture_socialism_tshirt-235202338790913782"
hmm|8.6.09 @ 4:40PM|#
Hmm, born in Hawaii to a mother who was born in Kansas. His father got into Harvard grad school. His mother was a professor with a PhD in anthropology, which meant he spend part of his childhood abroad while she was doing research. He attended ivy league schools for both undergrad and grad school. Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.
LIES!!
I was born in Pasadena California.(almost communist)
Jokerman|8.6.09 @ 4:51PM|#
By using the "urban" makeup of the Heath Ledger Joker,
instead of the urbane makeup of the Jack Nicholson character, the
poster connects Obama to something many of his detractors fear but
can't openly discuss.
Evidently, Kennicott believes Obama was born in either Compton,
Watts, Harlem, or some inner city between. Does that make him a
Birther of some stripe?
|8.6.09 @ 5:02PM|#
Chicken Bones of Justice,
What's funny is there's a little kid modeling that shirt.
I do think it odd that people think there's anything "street" about
Obama that adds a backstory upon which a racist narrative can be
built. In a way, it's kind of sad that the first black voted into
the White House really isn't very black, culturally. Not because
he's educated but because he spent so much time outside of the
U.S.
MattXIV|8.6.09 @ 5:14PM|#
I give The Warriors a 285 on my homoerotic subtext scale (300 = 300). Pretty gay, but no Top Gun
|8.6.09 @ 5:17PM|#
Could Top Gun have been any gayer without being
actually filmed as explicit gay porn? I think not. 300,
incidentally, is the right number to base a movie gayness
scale.
Speaking of movies, John Hughes just died. He was 59.
|8.6.09 @ 5:51PM|#
The only media to ever score a perfect 300 is Billy Squire's
Rock me
Tonite video. Hell, even Queen never scored above 290.
That sucks about John Hughes.
Franklin Harris|8.6.09 @ 6:36PM|#
Philip Kennicott is a laughable hack, and had the poster used the Jack Nicholson makeup instead, he would have found some other pathetic reason to object.
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 6:57PM|#
I like the hss scale...I will concur with the 285 score for
Warriors.
But how do you rate Top Gun if the scale is a scale of Homoerotic
SUBTEXT?
So, UFC, 275?
Hit & Run references to dear departed joe, about 265?
chad|8.6.09 @ 6:58PM|#
I could stretch that far but i am not Stretch Armstrong.
Pay attention to how the ledger joker created chaos in different
areas to get to his ends. Doesn't that sound a little
familiar?
whatever, the liberal activists can't accept a taste of their own
medicine. not that we didn't know that already...
Neu Mejican|8.6.09 @ 7:01PM|#
How's this rate on the hss?
"Frank Mir had a horseshoe up his ass," Lesnar stated after the
fight. "... I pulled it out of him and beat him over the head with
it.
Or does this also fail the "subtext" test?
|8.6.09 @ 7:03PM|#
So, now it's racially offensive to depict a black man in
whiteface?
That's some kind of progress, isn't it?
-jcr
|8.6.09 @ 7:05PM|#
At my local Spencer Gift Shop in the mall, they used to sell
George W. Bush coffee mugs, with him smiling with devil horns. They
also sold Hillary Clinton nut crackers.
Welcome to the club Obama.
P.S. Who in the political arena will be Batman?
Paul|8.6.09 @ 8:01PM|#
I haven't read all 287 comments, but I will add mine:
The Joker theme is simple: Obama isn't what his own voters thought
he was going to be-- not even close. He played a massive joke on
all of them. And, what we'll end up is socialism. Is it a
fantastic, brilliant connection between the image and the word
socialism? Can't say, won't say.
I love double standards. Bush in the image of a chimp: good
political rabble-rousing. Obama as the Joker? Now we've got a
problem.
|8.6.09 @ 9:02PM|#
ErichIHall,
I'm Batman.
Paul,
The more apt character would've been the Riddler or Two-Face.
Agree with the left's hypocrisy on this issue.
John|8.7.09 @ 3:46AM|#
"Joker" Obama: maybe intended to evoke the image of the Joker burning that gigantic pile of money in Dark Knight?
Jim Treacher|8.7.09 @ 11:39AM|#
Personally, I think the poster is a swipe at cheeseball sloganeer Shepard Fairey and Obama is just collateral damage.
I hadn't considered that, but I like it. After all, Fairey has
become rich and famous by ripping off socialist iconography.
Obama uses intimidation to get his way?
Only when lying doesn't work.
Hostile Gospel|8.8.09 @ 11:47AM|#
Read the Article, "Gotham's Finest: How Obama Unites the Joker and Socialism While Dividing the Art Critics" over at Brave New Post!
|8.9.09 @ 4:56PM|#
If Obama is a Socialist Joker for pushing Congress to come up
with a healthcare proposal, then Bush and Cheney are Socialist
Jokers many times over for bailing out automobile manufacturers and
Wall Street and for lining the pockets of war profiteers.
I'd agree that the WaPo's focus on the racial aspects of this piece
of street art is misguided. In light of the media's double standard
with respect to promoting misinformation about President Obama's
policies, the true story is that people who believe he is Socialist
have been misled. The ones manipulating the nutty fringe to hold
this opinion are hypocrites who have a political agenda that
involves spreading fear and lies to get what they want.
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