Al Gore is back. The global
warming climate change front man is in the news again
after giving another, shall we say, interesting speech
lamenting the the future of the planet; this time at Oxford
University. The former vice president rebuked politicians for not
doing enough to prevent climate change catastrophe, accusing them
of taking advantage of people's ignorance. Then, he Godwinned his
fight against global warming by comparing it to Winston Churchill's
fight against Nazi Germany:
So, if Gore is Churchill and the fight against climate change is like World War II then...climate change skeptics in this scenario are like the Nazis? It seems like in any other context comparing a group of people to Hitler and the Nazis of WWII would spark reproach.
Maybe there is a reason the "level of concern among populations" hasn't risen to Gore-approved standards. As I mentioned in a previous blog post, more and more scientists are concluding that human-caused global warming isn't necessarily a given.
Nah, X, I think a lot of people got this out of the way yesterday. It is funny to see Gore Godwin himself though.
Meanwhile, it's July 8, and here in Washington D.C. we're still
topping out at around 82-83 degrees, with lows in the mid
60s.
Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants to, but these temperatures
are definitely below normal for us at this time of year.
I think the inches of sea level rise would be the Nazis here. Skeptics are just the Lindberghs, Coughlins and Mosleys in this reality.
I saw this like 2 days ago... Slowwwwwwww... Made a note of it
too.
I guess this means Al Gore is Churchill? Or is he Tom Hanks. I
can't tell.
Laugh it up, but when the climate is rounding up racially impure people and killing them, you'll regret not stopping it sooner.
There's no evidence supporting AGWCT according to Dr. David Evans in his paper: There Is No Evidence.
Gore: If You Don't Believe in Global Warming, You're a
Nazi
*Clicks heels, performs stiff-arm salute.*
Don't be stupid, be a smartie. Come and join the climate change party.
So, if Gore is Churchill and the fight against climate
change is like World War II then...climate change skeptics in this
scenario are like the Nazis?
In case you didn't catch the tiny uproar about it yesterday, before
that Times article was silently edited to make Gore sound
less psychotic, the line you quoted said "Nazis."
We can berate politicians for not doing enough, and
compromising too much, and not being bold and addressing this
existential threat to civilization.
Gaaaaaahhhh!!! Run for your liiiiiiiiives!!!
I consider the Internal Revenue Service significantly more
threatening than global warming.
First it was cooling, then it was warming. Now it's changing...couldn't they have gone back to cooling and still get credit for the changing thing? God damn flip flopping climate.
Stupid thoughtless analogies are stupid and thoughtless.
We have everything we need except political will...
...the level of concern among populations has still not risen to cross the threshold
There might be a really good reason for the lack of will and
concern when compared to Churchill. People tend to mobilize a
little faster when the threat is bombing the ever loving fuck out
of your home and marching across Europe, Russia, and North Africa
killing people.
Gore and his fat ass mutton jowl lip flapping retardary is like
watching a clown fuck a monkey fucking a greased football. Fucking
silver spoon dipshit seeking a legacy because he didn't get to be
president.
Gore ... is like watching a clown fuck a monkey fucking a
greased football.
Please post that video - sounds a hell of a lot more interesting
than anything by or about MBP.
People tend to be more concerned about things that affect them
directly. Most people I know are concerned mostly about their jobs,
their houses, and their families. Gore doesn't have to worry about
any of that, so he has the luxury of worrying about whether the
earth's average temperature will go up .5 degrees during his
lifetime.
As the economy worsens, this is going to become an even harder sell
for him. Nobody's going to give a shit about polar bears when
unemployment hits 15%.
As the economy worsens, this is going to become an even
harder sell for him. Nobody's going to give a shit about polar
bears when unemployment hits 15%.
We'll be saved by Green Jobs I tell ya, Green Jobs!! For instance,
high school grads will have to earn their college loans by running
on giant treadmills attached to generators to create Green
Electricity via Americorps.
Never mind, that would actually be useful.
As I mentioned in a previous blog post, more and more scientists are concluding that human-caused global warming isn't necessarily a given.
Of course skeptics are on the rise. The people who always accused
the government of not doing enough are now uniformly in control.
Now they actually have to do something about it. Is it any
surprise that those same people are going to be more circumspect,
and start putting up their hands and saying "Hey now, let's not be
hasty".
Playing defense is hard. That's why so many of our old reliable
liberal commenters are gone.
Playing defense is hard. That's why so many of our old
reliable liberal commenters are gone.
Maybe they shot themselves after realizing Obama fucked them harder
than JFK did Marilyn Monroe. Nah, they just retreated into
cognitive dissonance.
So Godwinning is now any allusion to World War II in any setting
and in any context.
Why does every Internet word end up being the equivalent of
"smurf"?
Can you accept that rising levels of greenhouse gases in the
atmosphere will, at some level, resulting in a change to the
climate, without believing that this constitutes an "existential
threat" to civilization?
To me, an "existential threat to civilization" means that
civilization will be destroyed if the threat isn't addressed. But
the AGW proponents aren't actually claiming a level of climate
change that would actually DO that. They offer models that show
that some areas will suffer economically if weather patterns
change, and other areas will encounter large costs if sea levels
rise - while other areas will benefit from higher temperatures
[although these benefits will not net out our costs].
How is this an existential threat?
Laugh it up, but when the climate is rounding up racially
impure people and killing them, you'll regret not stopping it
sooner.
Exactly. Were it not for Gore's noble efforts, we'd all be speaking
German Eskimo whatever they speak where
it's several degrees warmer by now. A policy of appeasement of the
climate will not work!
So, if Gore is Churchill and the fight against climate
change is like World War II then...climate change skeptics in this
scenario are like the Nazis?
No, it's pretty clear that in Gore's analogy it is the threat from
global climate change that is analogous to the threat posed by
(presumably)the Nazis, or fascism in general.
And even if we were to insist beyond all sense that Gore is saying
that global climate change skeptics are analogous to Nazis, the
title of the post--"If You Don't Believe in Global Warming, You're
A Nazi"--would not follow from Gore's words. It's an analogy. If
you say A is to B as C is to D, that does not mean that B is D.
Both the post and the responses have been weak. Gore was not the
one to reference the Nazis. The author of the article did. All Gore
did was reference a local hero's leadership in a time of crisis.
That that leader was Churchill necessarily makes
anti-global-warmingers Nazi's?
Grow up, the world is not out to get you.
fluffy, the existential threat comes when the slow uptick in temperature triggers a catastrophic rise in other global warming causes. There's a word that's used for this. My meds are kickin my ass today and I can't think of it. The whole mess becomes self feeding and it changes very rapidly.
The best part is that the economy, doing so badly, is going to
be worsened by climate change legislation. And if you think people
are going to give a flying fuck about climate change when they
don't have a job, you are sadly mistaken.
It's like the absolutely worst possible time to push climate change
stuff, and they're going full court press. It's astonishing how
stupid these people are.
It's like the absolutely worst possible time to push climate
change stuff, and they're going full court press. It's astonishing
how stupid these people are.
If you only expect a small window of uncontested power and an
approval rating that can only go down, the rush makes sense. Strike
while you can.
The best part is that the economy, doing so badly, is going
to be worsened by climate change legislation. And if you think
people are going to give a flying fuck about climate change when
they don't have a job, you are sadly mistaken.
I think that many (or even most) Obama lovers will fail to make
this connection. The reason they don't have a job and are paying
more for energy isn't excessive regulation, it's Bush, and teh
greedy capitalists. Duh.
Stretch: If you're going to use an analogy, then you should be
prepared for the obvious interpretation.
In Gore-world,
Churchill::Nazis
Al Gore::"Climate Change" deniers
Not that much of a leap.
Or maybe Obama lovers have made the connection and see all this change as the way to put the greedy capitalists firmly under the iron fist of the government. Power beats money everytime. The left finally has the power and enough voter support to shove these things through.
Playing defense is hard. That's why so many of our old
reliable liberal commenters are gone.
Where are the joe's of yesteryear?
Will someone just do something about this guy? I don't care who does it or what they do! Just shut him up! Maybe we can frame his for something that will get the mafia pissed at him. A nice pair of environmentally-friendly concrete Nikes would look good on Al's trip to inspect the purity (ecological, not racial) of Lake Michigan's bottom.
Has this guy lost it, completely? He's doing more to hurt his "cause", than to help it. Perhaps just concentrating on the looming fossil fuel shortage/crisis and all the money being spent in Middle Eastern countries. I don't care how much science you may think is on your side. This is not a battle between science and religion. But this whole argument is indicative of the left vs right (us vs them) mentality in this country. Is there no room for open honest debate?
I mocked Krugman's use of the term, "existential threat" not
that long ago, and I repeat for Mr. Gore:
Pro Libertate | June 29, 2009, 1:41pm | #
I'm amused by the increased use of "existential" in the media. While there's not necessarily anything wrong with the word (except the questionable validity of it in this context), it always makes me think of the philosophical movement and an alternate meaning of the term:I could swear that it's this meaning of existential that Krugman is using--non-rational and non-empirical--but maybe I'm mistaken.[A] philosophical attitude associated esp. with Heidegger, Jaspers, Marcel, and Sartre, and opposed to rationalism and empiricism, that stresses the individual's unique position as a self-determining agent responsible for the authenticity of his or her choices.
BOSTON - Massachusetts is suing the federal government over a
law that defines marriage as a union between a man and a
woman.
State Attorney General Martha Coakley filed the lawsuit today in
federal court in Boston. It says the federal Defense of Marriage
Act interferes with the right of Massachusetts to define marriage
as it sees fit.
The 1996 federal law denies federal recognition of gay marriage.
Massachusetts was the first state to allow the practice.
The Boston-based Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders has
already sued over the federal law. It says it discriminates against
gay couples and is unconstitutional because it denies them access
to federal benefits that other married couples receive.
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12778977?source=rss
G8 Summit Leaders commit to achieve a 50% reduction in global greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 (80% reduction by developed countries)
"Grow up, the world is not out to get you."
Maybe not, but the politicians sure as fuck are.
Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants to, but these
temperatures are definitely below normal for us at this time of
year.
See? The climate is changing.
"But this whole argument is indicative of the left vs right (us
vs them) mentality in this country. Is there no room for open
honest debate?"
Nope. Hee, hee, hee.
I would suggest that the lack of open and honest debate between the left and right is one reason why folks on the left are telling Obama "go ahead, just do whatever you think will work."
Grow up, the world is not out to get you.
Maybe not. But I'm certainly not going to take your word for it.
:)
Meanwhile, it's July 8, and here in Washington D.C. we're still topping out at around 82-83 degrees, with lows in the mid 60s.
Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants to, but these temperatures are definitely below normal for us at this time of year.
The temperature changes that global warming would bring would not
be noticeable just by looking at daily temperatures. Even assuming
the mean global temperature rises by 5 degrees, you're still going
to have cooler years and warmer years (and cooler areas of the
world and warmer areas of the world) in about the same proportion
as usual.
Of course Gore was quick to offer the unusually warm December and
January we had in the eastern US back in '06-07 as evidence of
global warming, but we shouldn't stoop to his level.
I would suggest that the lack of open and honest debate
between the left and right is one reason why folks on the left are
telling Obama "go ahead, just do whatever you think will
work."
And whose fault is it that we don't have such a debate?
Al's analogy means not that the AGW skeptics are Nazis, instead
they are the pacifists who opposed going to fight Europe's
war.
Actually, global warming is more like WMDs in Iraq, some evidence
of existence, but not convincing. (Except Saddam's WMDs really did
exist at some time).
Surely not enough evidence to waste billions of dollars in a
demonstratably hopeless fight.
"Gore and his fat ass mutton jowl lip flapping retardary is like
watching a clown fuck a monkey fucking a greased football. Fucking
silver spoon dipshit seeking a legacy because he didn't get to be
president." - hmm
Best rant of the day.
Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants to, but these temperatures are definitely below normal for us at this time of year.
Well, here in Central Florida they're above normal but there has
not been a record setting day yet.
I get tired of tell AGW believers that a hot summer or a mild
winter is not proof of their theory.
Unfortunately the converse is likewise true.
Me, this week I am of the opinion that meeting any local costs of
damages or disruptions due to climate change as they occur will
likely be cheaper than destroying the foundation of industrial
production.
And I haven't seen any argument to convince me that a the schemes
to counter GW won't end up destroying the foundation of industrial
production.
Global Warming is becoming the Great Cause that keeps ousted
politicians working, writing books, giving speeches, and basically
stroking themselves in public while raking in the cash.
I hear Tony Blair is about to jump in, too.
It's greater than a silly little famine somewhere in Bumfuk, or
those pesky leftover landmines. It's Global! Even better, it's
perpetual, it will never be solved!
"Global Warming is becoming the Great Cause that keeps ousted
politicians working, writing books, giving speeches, and basically
stroking themselves in public while raking in the cash."
Just like the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.
Most charitable interpretation I can think of is that he is saying that greenhouse gases are Nazis and all global warming deniers are isolationists.
The temperature changes that global warming would bring
would not be noticeable just by looking at daily temperatures. Even
assuming the mean global temperature rises by 5 degrees, you're
still going to have cooler years and warmer years (and cooler areas
of the world and warmer areas of the world) in about the same
proportion as usual.
I know, I'm kind of being a wiseguy, because I'm doing exactly what
guys like Al Gore do.
One of the big problems with the temperature numbers is that you
can make this data appear almost any way you want to, simply by
selectively picking and choosing your time endpoints.
I honestly don't believe that there's even a single person in the
world who truly knows what the "ideal" temperature at any given
location in the world at any given time of year is supposed to be,
and whether we're above or below that right now. For that matter,
I'm not even fully convinced that the idea of the "mean global
temperature" has any true importance or relevance whatsoever.
All we're really getting from Al Gore and his ilk are a bunch of
hysterical, apocalyptic predictions that are spectacularly failing
to pan out.
Were it not for Gore's noble efforts, we'd all be speaking
German Eskimo whatever they speak where it's several
degrees warmer by now.
Um, that would be Mexican.
Release the LoneWacko!
fluffy, the existential threat comes when the slow uptick in
temperature triggers a catastrophic rise in other global warming
causes. There's a word that's used for this.
The words you're looking for are "speculative and unproven
assumption."
Dammit Isaac, you stole my point about using anecdotal evidence.
It was hot here last weekend so, GW is true. It's cool here today
so, it must not be true.
Sean, your obvious interpretation was made by you and your
Godwinning brethren. I wouldn't have gone there without the word
Nazi being in the title of the post.
I love the posts that run along the lines of: "Al Gore can call me
a Nazi all he wants..." Al Gore doesn't know who the hell you are,
he didn't call you a Nazi, you aren't that significant. That guy in
the TV isn't talking to you.
I love the posts that run along the lines of: "Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants..." Al Gore doesn't know who the hell you are, he didn't call you a Nazi, you aren't that significant. That guy in the TV isn't talking to you.
Making a sweeping statement or inference about a population by
definition means each and every person in that population.
If all isn't talking to me, and others with the same opinion as
myself, who the fuck is he talking to? The Easter Bunny, Santa
Claus, and the Tooth Fairy?
You troll like old people fuck. Slow, sloppy, and a little to the
left.
That guy in the TV isn't talking to you.
What about the guy in the blender? He calls me by name so I
know he's talking to me.
technically, you can't CALL a godwin. The mention of Nazis silently invokes Godwins law and ends the thread. Calling a godwin cancels out the effect. For example, I mentioned nazis in this post, that should signify the end of meaningful dialog and anybody with any sense would leave the thread. I would assume that trolls and noobs may continue with the thread even after the invocation of Godwins law. If i call a Godwin, I could be flamed. I suppose this application could be acceptable in the case of the speech, given that you're referring to it in the past tense, but no one left the speech (metaphoric thread) so by definition they are trolls and noobs. If you extrapolate from this logic, it applies in a greater sense to both the speaker and audience. To mention Nazis in this context, the speaker is a troll and misappropriating a hero like Churchhill is offensive, confirming the troll status of the speaker we've already established that the audience is made up (at least the majority) of trolls and noobs. The idea of these trolls making any decisions that affects me is much bleaker than the prospect of the Earth warming 1 degree over the next hundred years.
So, if Gore is Churchill and the fight against climate
change is like World War II then...climate change skeptics in this
scenario are like the Nazis?
Oh! I get it now. This is IRONY.
I have no time for Gore, but calling this a Godwin is weak; Gore compared his fight to Churchill's which was an example of tenacity in attempting to rouse his nation to taking action which they were ambivalent about. Nothing to do with the nature of the foe.
Al has jumped the shark. I'm going to celebrate by watching the
video where he excoriated Bush senior for leaving Saddam in
power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64
In his standard "listen to me, you fucking peasants" drone.
-jcr
Gore compared his fight to Churchill's which was an example
of tenacity in attempting to rouse his nation to taking action
which they were ambivalent about. Nothing to do with the nature of
the foe.
Sure. He just used a metaphor, in which his side is seen as
unquestionably just and righteous and the "other" side is that
ultimate evil thingy, by happenstance.
It didn't mean anything such thing at all, which is why he chose
it. Sure.
So Godwinning is now any allusion to World War II in any setting and in any context.
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a
comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
Good point: The long-running discussion in which Al Gore made a
comparison between global warming and the fight against Nazi
Germany did not occur on Usenet.
Gore compared his fight to Churchill's which was an example of tenacity in attempting to rouse his nation to taking action which they were ambivalent about. Nothing to do with the nature of the foe.
So Al Gore isn't clueless and insane, just inept at analogies?
...political will is a renewable resource.[...]We can berate
politicians for not doing enough, and compromising too much, and
not being bold and addressing this existential threat to
civilization. But the reason they don't is that the level of
concern among populations has still not risen to cross the
threshold to make the political leaders feel they must address
it.
So basically, Al Gore sees fearful Americans the way a hydrologist
sees water, as a force of nature that he should wield to do his
bidding.
Mike M. says:
"Meanwhile, it's July 8, and here in Washington D.C. we're still
topping out at around 82-83 degrees, with lows in the mid
60s.
"Al Gore can call me a Nazi all he wants to, but these temperatures
are definitely below normal for us at this time of year."
IF THE TEMPERATURE IS WARMER THAN NORMAL: You see? The earth is
heating up! We're killing our Mother Earth!
IF THE TEMPERATURE IS COOLER THAN NORMAL: You see? Global Warming
is causing perverse weather conditions! We must stop this cycle
before it's too late--too late for us ALL!
IF THE TEMPERATURE IS EXACTLY AVERAGE FOR THE TIME OF YEAR: That's
not telling us anything. But look at this graph of Antarctic ice
sheet thickness! And these pictures of polar bears! Oh, those poor
polar bears!
And that's how we play: Global! Warming! Debate! Tactics!
So, is that everybody? No, I see. Would the hipster
slouching in the back seat who hasn't paid attention since the
first day of class like to state his opinion?
Both the post and the responses have been weak.
Speak up, son, you are mumbling.
Grow up, the world is not out to get you.
You got a little snot running down your chin. There you go. Clean
that right up. Now as you were.
I love the posts that run along the lines of: "Al Gore can call
me a Nazi all he wants..." Al Gore doesn't know who the hell you
are, he didn't call you a Nazi, you aren't that significant. That
guy in the TV isn't talking to you.
We owe you so much for your intelligent and thoughtful comments, it
is a shame I'm going to have to flunk you this quarter.
Gore is like a reverse Churchill who did nothing in office about the Nazis, only to become an indefatigable fighter of them once he was a backbencher again.
So most of you guys believe in a global conspiracy of the vast majority of the scientists and governments on the planet in what is easily the most convoluted scheme ever devised (by that moron Al Gore!). Yeah Al Gore is such a wacko...
"So most of you guys believe in a global conspiracy of the vast
majority of the scientists and governments on the planet in what is
easily the most convoluted scheme ever devised (by that moron Al
Gore!)"
No. Just a stupid bandwagon started by a few scientists and jumped
on like crazy by bandwagon-loving politicians and hyped to infinity
by ignorant hype-loving
fact-checking-gets-in-the-way-of-a-good-story press... Gore was
actually quite late to the game...
"global conspiracy of the vast majority of the scientists"
I call bullshit on the scientist part. The conspiracy calling is a
huge strawman. There was no "conspiracy for geocentric astronomy"
before Copernicus... just a consensus of the lazy.. not rare at all
in science.
Simple fact: the vast majority is always trend-following. Skeptics
and naysayers get fewer grants...
Ah so the fact that the vast majority of relevant scientists
agree on an empirical question is now a liability for that
point of view. THAT makes sense.
Ever consider the possibility that it's you, and not science, that
is wrong? Perish the thought, I know, but the north pole is sorta
melting before your eyes...
Al Gore made fun of me in his movie. Is that how you win a Nobel Prize? Make fun of historical events? What a Nazi.
I'll start to buy into this anthrogenic gloal warming when one, ONE of these alarmists who are raking in the cash stirring up hype can explain this one to me: Each year, volcanoes release more "green house" gasses into the atmosphere than humans have produced IN OUR ENTIRE EXSISTENCE. Why then, does Earth not resemble Venus in surface temp? This is one huge power grab, and that is ALL.
I think Gore is saying that his bold leadership resembles that of Winston Churchill, Prius drivers are as brave as Allied Soldiers, and CO2 molecules are nano-nazis bent on conquering the world.
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