Why Do They Still Hate Us?

Michael C. Moynihan | June 2, 2009

Like so many pundits and partisans before him, Rep. Joe Courtney (D-Conn.) declared last August that "this [Obama-Biden] ticket will repair our damaged reputation abroad." It was simply presumed that, drone strikes on Pakistan and a surge of troops in Afghanistan notwithstanding, an Obama administration would just be better for public diplomacy. In Europe, where the universal loathing of George W. Bush crept into most every news story about the United States, the presidency of Barack Obama has bumped opinions of the U.S. in a positive direction. That he has publicly declared that marriage should be between a man and a woman—a position for which Bush was routinely criticized during my years in Europe—is either unknown or politely ignored. That his waging of the war on terror has been, in many key respects, virtually indistinguishable from the Bush administration is never acknowledged.

During his two terms, President Bush sent cack-handed teams of State Department officials on taxpayer-funded trips to remote villages in Belgium, where they were to teach Flemish youths about the NBA and MTV. A member of Karen Hughes' staff (after she took on the hopeless job of Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs) told me of an attempt to "win hearts and minds" by funding basketball tournaments for Danish teens.

Indeed, in the last eight years European perceptions of both America and American policy (they are rarely dealt with separately) were deeply negative. But when people like Rep. Courtney talk of repairing damaged relationships, one imagines they are thinking of Berlin, London, and Paris—Cairo, Damascus, and Tehran being rather tougher nuts to crack. And according to recent polling data from Gallup, reported here by the indefatigable ABC News correspondent Jake Tapper, opinions of the United States in the Arab are now only "slightly less negative."

Gallup reports that slightly fewer citizens of Arab nations disapprove of the US under President Obama than during the reign of his predecessor. In Egypt, for instance, last May US leadership enjoyed a 6% approval rating.  In March it registered at 25%.

But not all the news was positive:

Interestingly, many of those polled may be holding off before making a conclusion. In Lebanon, the Palestinian Territories, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tunisia,  and Yemen, the percentage of respondents answering "don't know/refused" increased significantly.

In Lebanon and the Palestinian Territories, approval of the US is actually lower now than under President Bush, dipping from 13% to 7% in the Palestinian Territories and from 25% to 22% in Lebanon.

Full story.

Comments

SIV|6.2.09 @ 4:31PM|#

That he has publicly declared that marriage is-a position for which Bush was routinely during my years in Europe-is either unknown or politely ignored.

This isn't the only example incomprehensible writing in this post.

|6.2.09 @ 4:35PM|#

opinions of the United States in the Arab are now only "slightly less negative."

SIV beat me to it--this article has several missing words and needs to be edited.

Regardless, the changing of who is president isn't going to massively shift opinions. That takes time and depends on what actions the administration takes. I doubt they will do much to increase our popularity abroad, as that would require not sticking our noses in everyone's business, and our government can't seem to help doing that no matter who is in charge.

GhostShip|6.2.09 @ 4:36PM|#

It's really simple to understand why the Islamic world hates us. We're infidels and as long as we're infidels they will continue to hate us.

Islam divides the world into two sections. The first is the House of Islam which is any place where Muslims rule. The second is the House of War which is any place not under Islamic control.

What's so hard to understand about that?

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 4:38PM|#

Let's all look at why Muslims are upset: First of all, in the Muslim religion, you're not allowed to have what? Sex. Good. There's no sex until marriage in the Muslim world. Now, this would be fine except that in the Muslim religion you also can't... Anybody? Jack off. [writes "NO JACKING OFF" on the board] Okay, jacking it is strictly forbidden in the Muslim religion. And what do we know about the places Muslims live? They live in? Good, sand. Now put yourself in the shoes of a Muslim. It's Friday night, but you can't have sex, and you can't jack off. There's sand in your eyes and probably in the crack of your ass, and then some cartoon comes along from a country where people are getting laid, and mocks your prophet. Well you know what? I'd be pretty pissed off too!

|6.2.09 @ 4:42PM|#

Do other countries wring their hands over whether or not the US populace has a favorable opinion of them?

|6.2.09 @ 4:49PM|#

Do other countries wring their hands over whether or not the US populace has a favorable opinion of them?

NutraSweet, they understand that Americans barely acknowledge the existence of other countries.

Leela: "Look, I know there are no car chases, but this is important. One of these two men will become president of the world."

Fry: "What do we care? We live in the United States."

Leela: "The United States is part of the world."

Fry: "Wow, I have been gone a long time."

Mad Max|6.2.09 @ 4:49PM|#

No, they build bomb shelters.

They hate us because we're so awesome. Plus, they're all foreign devils who refuse to speak English.

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:01PM|#

GhostShip,

There are different branches of Islam just as there are differnt denominations of Christianity. For some branches you are very right but there are more tollerant branches like the Ahmadiyya muslims and (most) Suffi muslims and others. Do not group all branches of Islam together or I will bring up the Westboro Baptist people.

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:02PM|#

Here is the URL for the Ahmadiyyas
http://www.alislam.org/

|6.2.09 @ 5:02PM|#

The headline needs to add the words: and who gives a shit, anyway.

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:05PM|#

I asked Wolframalpha that question and got the answer "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input."

|6.2.09 @ 5:09PM|#

I asked Wolframalpha that question and got the answer "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input."

WolframAlpha is being run from the White House press office?

Mike|6.2.09 @ 5:19PM|#

This is something that the left just doesn't get. Some people are just plain BAD. If you're nice to them, they'll still be bad. If you respect their culture, they'll still be bad. If you appease them, they'll still be bad.

I want to have the freedom to do as I choose with my body and my property. Some people don't want me to have that freedom, so they hate me (and anyone else who values freedom). It is as simple as that.

lunchstealer|6.2.09 @ 5:22PM|#

I can kinda see why the Palestinian opinion may have dropped regardless of any Obama bump. The Obama bump came largely when he was elected, and before Gaza had the everloving fuck blown out of it by the Israelis, who are largely seen to be tools/puppetmasters of the US.

Lebanon is more tricky, but that place is just strange. The "No Reservations" where Bordain gets caught in the war was an excellent meditation on the fuckedupedness of fucked up places.

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:26PM|#

"The Obama bump came largely when he was elected, and before Gaza had the everloving fuck blown out of it by the Israelis, who are largely seen to be tools/puppetmasters of the US."

Funny, Americans who hate Jewish people think the U.S. Government is controlled by Israel and Arabs who hate Jewish people think Israel is controlled by the United States. Me? I think they are both conspiracy theorists who do not deserve an audiance outside of Coast to Coast.

**NOTE: I did not use the term anti-Semite because Arabs are also a Semitic people.

Shannon Love|6.2.09 @ 5:35PM|#

I lay awake nights worrying about what Belgium thinks of America. After all, all religious sources and philosophers since ancient times all agree that the sole criteria for morality is popularity. If all the kids are doing it, it must be a good idea right?

We shouldn't seek popularity. Throughout most of history, most people have been wrong about most things. Anybody doing something new and important will look wrong to most people. If the mass of humanity recognized the new things as a good idea, they would implement it themselves.

Europe is senescent. Why should we seek the moral approval of those trapped in the past? Why should we seek the approval of people whose love for hierarchy and authority have spawned the two great evil ideologies of the last century?

Neither should we care much for the opinions of the vast majority of humanity who lack the education and experience to judge our actions. The Islamic world is trapped in medieval mindset wholly alien to our values. China has the same problem but from a different direction.

The mythical cowboy is an individual who sees what needs to be done and then assumes the responsibility to doing the right things while the townspeople dither and cower. I say we should be cowboys.

hmm|6.2.09 @ 5:36PM|#

The Ottoman Empire has not liked the US since, well since the US came into existence. We fought the Barbary Wars for a reason.

MNG|6.2.09 @ 5:38PM|#

I can't imagine why Lebanon would be mad at us. I mean, when Israel was dropping US made weapons on them killing thousands and crippling their infrastructure and their President begged the international community to impose a cease fire because his nation was coming apart, and then we prevented such a cease fire for weeks and weeks though every other major power was for it, I mean, who could hold that against us?

Jesus Christ, we're lucky it's not at -22% there...

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:38PM|#

Shannon, well said.

creech|6.2.09 @ 5:42PM|#

At the very least, the Cowboy needs to present Europe with a bill for defending them as the world's policeman. See how popular the U.S. will be then.

MNG|6.2.09 @ 5:42PM|#

"I say we should be cowboys."

We need good working relations with other nations in order to protect our own nation. Many terrorist attacks on the US have been disrupted by the law enforcement and intelligence agencies of other nations?

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.2.09 @ 5:43PM|#

MNG,

Let's imagine if there were rough terrorists in controlling much of Southern Canada. Rockets are hitting major U.S. Cities on a regular basis. Car bombs are blowing up U.S. buildings. The Canadian government is either unable or unwilling to do anything about it. What would you suggest we do?

Bumper Sticker|6.2.09 @ 5:49PM|#

I voted for Obama and all I got was this lousy European-style economy.

Mad Max|6.2.09 @ 5:53PM|#

'I want to have the freedom to do as I choose with my body and my property. Some people don't want me to have that freedom, so they hate me (and anyone else who values freedom). It is as simple as that.'

Stop insulting our President! America - love it or leave it!

|6.2.09 @ 5:53PM|#

I mean, when Israel was dropping US made weapons on them

I thought Israel made its own weapons.

Let's imagine if there were rough terrorists in controlling much of Southern Canada. Rockets are hitting major U.S. Cities on a regular basis. Car bombs are blowing up U.S. buildings. The Canadian government is either unable or unwilling to do anything about it. What would you suggest we do?

I, for one, would be willing to offer them Massachusetts to stop. If that didn't work, I'd throw in Vermont.

|6.2.09 @ 5:55PM|#

There's a Norwegian lady at the office where I work. Norwegian citizenship. Plans to retire back to Norway. But she's in love with Obama. Sickeningly disgustingingly in love with Obama. I swear she gets orgasms when she speaks his name, because her voice pitch rises when she says it. Oooh!! She even has an Obama wall calendar. WTF? No one else in my sphere of aquaintances has an Obama calendar. No one I know ever had a Bush calendar. It's downright creepy.

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 5:58PM|#

"I can't imagine why Lebanon would be mad at us"

yeah!

like they have no reason to be mad a Syria for occupying them

but Amerika
who build Universities and Hospitals in Lebanon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University_of_Beirut

(my girlfriend who's a doctor did Erasmus there)

Well they're just bad!

Evil Amerika again!

Actually I was in Turkey last week

They don't hate anyone, they're chilled out as fuck

Its just the muslim countries with dictatorships that hate Amerika

why's that?

cus Muslim dictatorships hang the USA as a pinata
so that their subjects are distracted as to who's actually oppressing them

Seriously who gives a shite about impressing people who are riled up into race hate by authoritarian regimes?

Fuck em

MNG|6.2.09 @ 6:13PM|#

I'm not going to have some big debate about the Israeli-Lebanon War of 2006 and who was right or wrong. But here is are some facts:

1. "The conflict killed over a thousand people, mostly Lebanese civilians,[25][26][27][28][29] severely damaged Lebanese civil infrastructure, and displaced approximately one million Lebanese[30]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War

2. The U.S. played a key role in preventing a cease-fire, despite being called upon by Lebanon's leaders (including anti-Hezbollah leaders)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceasefire_attempts_during_the_2006_Lebanon_War
3. Israel used quite a bit of U.S. made weapons in that war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-United_States_military_relations#U.S._military_equipment_in_Israeli_use

Now really guys, do you really think given that Lebanon should LIKE us? What in the incredible fuck are you smoking?

MNG|6.2.09 @ 6:18PM|#

"I thought Israel made its own weapons."

You thought wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel-United_States_military_relations#Significant_major_procurements

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL33696.pdf

Syd|6.2.09 @ 6:20PM|#

Gallup reports that slightly fewer citizens of Arab nations disapprove of the US under President Obama than during the reign of his predecessor. In Egypt, for instance, last May US leadership enjoyed a 6% approval rating. In March it registered at 25%.

So our leadership's approval rating is up 19 points and is more than quadruple what it was before and this is a slight improvement?

|6.2.09 @ 6:25PM|#

Now really guys, do you really think given that Lebanon should LIKE us?

Frankly, I don't see any reason to care whether the Lebanese like us or not.

To the extent Lebanon matters at all to us, we would do better to talk directly with Syria, since Lebanon is functionally a province of Syria anyway.

As to the rights and wrongs of the 2006 war, I see no justification whatsoever for the initial attacks on Israel originating in Lebanon. Therefor, Israeli actions in self-defense are justifiable.

Since the attacks on Israel were indiscriminate attacks on civilians, by the way, I don't give any weight to claims that the Israeli counterattacks may have also harmed civilians.

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 6:35PM|#

I'm not going to have some big debate about the Israeli-Lebanon War of 2006

how about

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Lebanon

Israel ended the occupation of Southern Lebanon in 2000

so why the fuck where (the theocratic (Like Republicans) organization) Hizbollah

starting a war 6 years later

like France sells weapons to Italy

If Germany starts a war with Italy

by your reasoning in that situation Germans should hate the French

fucking dumb

As I've previously stated no other country in the world has given more to the Lebanese than the US

seriously they gave the country a whole new infrastructure

Hospitals, Universities, shopping centers

do you seriously think that Hizbollah were right to start that war?

Why is it that Amerika is bad for building hospitals, schools, road universities in Lebabnon?

But when Iran gives money to finance a war with the countries neighbour that's just hunkey dory?

Why is it that the Syrian occupation of Lebanon was good?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_occupation_of_Lebanon

That lasted until 2005?

The Syrians along with the Iranians financed a fucking army that started a war in 2006

and that's just cool

the Americunts build hospitals and universities

and they're bad

sounds dumb to me

MNG|6.2.09 @ 6:38PM|#

"Frankly, I don't see any reason to care whether the Lebanese like us or not."

That's your call, but let us not act like we can't understand why they don't like us given those facts supra...

"Therefor, Israeli actions in self-defense are justifiable.

Since the attacks on Israel were indiscriminate attacks on civilians, by the way, I don't give any weight to claims that the Israeli counterattacks may have also harmed civilians."

RC, btw that's plainly nuts. According to this logic, if you catch someone who broke into your shed to vandalize it you could beat them up, rape them, then keep them in a box in your basement for years periodically raping them, and you'd be justified.

Or to use a less fun example, if A struck B "with no justification whatsover" then anything B is entitled to anything they want to A.

"What would you suggest we do?"

Since this can of worms is open I'll tell you: I wouldn't kill hundreds in retaliation for the killing of single digits. I wouldn't engage in any retaliation which would likely kill more non-terrorist innocents than were killed by the terrorists in their strike(s).

That's like saying if a murder suspect is holed up in an occupied apartment building the police are justified in throwing hand grenades in the building to "smoke him out."

MNG|6.2.09 @ 6:42PM|#

Material
Are you purposely dense?

Let me ask you one thing: do you have any doubt that the U.S. could have ensured, rather than prevent as they actually did, the cease fire that Lebanon's leaders begged for early in the 2006 war?

And you still can't figure out why they would not like us? We could have acted like the rest of the world and prevented hundreds of Lebanese deaths and displacement and huge damage to their infrastructure, but we purposefully did not. And you still can't fathom their hate?

Man, you are smoking some serious drugs...

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 6:49PM|#

Man, you are smoking some serious drugs...

Nope

I only drink snort drugs

you havn't really commented on any of the issues i raised there have you

just a comment about my drug habits

so let me re state my points

The Israeli occupation of Lebanon ended in 2000

The Syrian occupation of Lebanon ended in 2005

Syria funds Hizbollah

why the fuck did Hizbollah start a war wit Israel in 2006?

Alan Vanneman|6.2.09 @ 6:58PM|#

Um, yawn. That is to say, yawn! I get it, Reason! Obama, bad! Obama, bad!

MNG|6.2.09 @ 7:24PM|#

Material
Hezbollah was formed as a resistance to a multi-year Israeli invasion and occupation of Lebanon. Syria has long befriended Hezbollah.

Syria was "invited" in at the request of the Lebanese President during civil war iirc and then invited to stay by the Arab League as part of the Arab Deterrent Force. Of course, they vastly overstayed any welcome that could have been justified.

But I'm not going to defend Syria, which are is a thugocracy, they were hardly humanitarians trying to just help out. And I imagine any poll would show that other than about a third of the population, Syria is very unpopular.

So what in the world could your point be?

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 7:32PM|#

So what in the world could your point be?

That's pretty simple

The Israeli occupation of Lebanon ended in 2000

The Syrian occupation of Lebanon ended in 2005

Syria funds Hizbollah

why the fuck did Hizbollah start a war wit Israel in 2006?

MaterialMonkee|6.2.09 @ 7:38PM|#

What your saying is that
Lebanese people should hate Americunts
because of the 2006 War

I'm saying what possible reason did Hizbollah have to start that war?

Bearing in mind that

The Israeli occupation of Lebanon ended in 2000

The Syrian occupation of Lebanon ended in 2005

and that Syria funds Hizbollah

|6.2.09 @ 7:46PM|#

"why the fuck did Hizbollah start a war wit Israel in 2006?"

Follow the basic news. Hizbollah tried to capture Israeli soldiers in hopes of provoking an exchange of prisoners (israeli occupation may have ended, though disputed over some stupid farm place, but still prisoners and hostages are held throguh 2006 and beyond by both jackoff sides of the wacko conflict.

Israel decided to hit back in full force by hitting hizbollah military and lebanese civilian targets, and Hizbollah aimed and fired their missiles at Israeli military and civilian targets.

And they all got their collectivist nationalist rocks off defending tribal honor via baby homicide.

MNG|6.2.09 @ 8:28PM|#

Monkee
Conflicts, often deadly, on the Lebanese/Israeli border have been common since Israel ceased its invasion and occupation and withdrew from most of the Lebanese territory they occupied.

As Hezbollah was created as a resistance movement against Israel and Syria long supported them it would indeed be odd if they attacked Syria rather than Israel.

But of course you're being transparently and un-necessarily coy and suggesting that Hizbollah provoked the war on Syria's behalf, as if that matters to 1. the morality of the Israeli response or 2. Lebanese public opinion of the US. Of course neither of us know that to be true or not, but let us say it was: Israel did not have to take that bait and certainly we did not have to support them in the taking. But more to the actual point of this thread, the Lebanese certainly would not applaud, or even forgive, our support of Israel taking the bait.

When their leader was on the airwaves practically crying, begging the U.S. and others to push for a cease fire, and we quite publicly and solely worked to prevent that from happening, then we wiped away all those hospitals and stuff you mention that we built...And rightly so.

"but still prisoners and hostages are held throguh 2006 and beyond by both jackoff sides of the wacko conflict"

Israel eventually gave back five prisoners for the remains of the (barbarically imo) killed two IDF prisoners at the start of it all...So yes, both sides have been in on this kind of thing. IIRC Hezbollah's stated goal was to spring four of these prisoners.

DHS Thinks I\'m a Terrorist|6.3.09 @ 10:25AM|#

"Now really guys, do you really think given that Lebanon should LIKE us? What in the incredible fuck are you smoking?"

Given that Israel was right to defend itself I don't give a rats rear end if they hate us because Israel has the audacity to defend itself.

|6.3.09 @ 12:30PM|#

According to this logic, if you catch someone who broke into your shed to vandalize it you could beat them up, rape them, then keep them in a box in your basement for years periodically raping them, and you'd be justified.

Not at all. All they did was vandalize my shed, per my reciprocity principle I would not be justified in assaulting them physically or imprisoning them. Geez, try not to completely misrepresent what I say, MNG.

if A struck B "with no justification whatsover" then anything B is entitled to anything they want to A.

Nope. If A struck B, then, per reciprocity, A could not complain if B struck A. That is all.

I wouldn't engage in any retaliation which would likely kill more non-terrorist innocents than were killed by the terrorists in their strike(s).

IOW, you would not mount any response to Hezbollah, because Hezbollah violated the laws of war by embedding its fighters in the civilian population of Lebanon.

Remember, you will get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish. By rewarding Hezbollah for violating the laws of war, Hezbollah will continue to do so.

Israel decided to hit back in full force by hitting hizbollah military and lebanese civilian targets, and Hizbollah aimed and fired their missiles at Israeli military and civilian targets.

Hezbollah attacked Israel indiscriminately; any missile strikes on military targets were purely accidental. Israel could not strike at Hezbollah military targets without hitting Lebanese civilans as well, due to Hezbollah's practice of embedding its military in civilian areas.

JB|6.3.09 @ 1:45PM|#

Hope and Change! Hope and Change!

Obama is a lying fraud.

|6.3.09 @ 8:24PM|#

"any missile strikes on military targets were purely accidental."

Hizbullah took out an Israeli ship AT SEA. I suppose it was aiming at Israeli civilian fish and accidentally hit it.

both sides in that squabble get their rocks off on dead enemy babies, and both sides aim at military targets for strategic purposes, dont sanitize that tribal war mess with naive favoritism, about the saintly victimized oh-theyre-holding-themselves-back X's against the harassed and no-choice-but-murder Y's who never shoot first.

Collectivist packs of whiny-victim anti-individualist assholes the BOTH of them and to beleive otherwise is to be duped.