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Grandma Arrested for Child Porn
Back in 2005, a WalMart worker in Pennsylvania reported 59-year-old Donna Dull to local authorities after Dull dropped off some film that included shots of her three-year-old granddaughter in and just out of the bath. Dull was arrested—roughly, she says—and charged with producing and distributing child pornography. The charges were dropped 15 months later when a Pennsylvania special prosecutor overruled the local DA. Only Dull, her attorney, and police and prosecutors have apparently seen the photos, which are now under seal. She's now suing.
In this follow-up article from the York Daily Record, state officials seem to be trying to reassure parents and grandparents that they have nothing to worry about—that you needn't fret about having your life ruined and reputation destroyed by false child porn charges for taking nude pictures of your infant or toddler. Problem is, their reassurances aren't very convincing.
Christopher Moore, a special prosecutor in the York County District Attorney's Office, is after "perverts, not parents."
Moore was commenting on the "gray area" between the typical family picture of the 2-year-old getting a bath in the kitchen sink and a picture a pedophile may enjoy.
It can be the same picture, Moore said.
But, Moore added, that is not a reason for parents and grandparents to avoid taking those pictures...
"It's not what the (child protection) law was designed for. Your rights are not restricted in any form by the law."
But it appears that's precisely what Dull was arrested for. And the DA in Dull's case insists he was right. Or at least he's pretty sure he was:
[District Attorney] Rebert said in Dull's case, "What made them offensive was their graphic nature. A little girl with her bare butt showing, kind of looking over her shoulder.
"It's a difficult distinction to make. What's a cute butt and what's pornographic?
"I think what she (Dull) did was stupid and in very poor judgment. It was an interesting case and I think we did the right thing."
So because the photo could have been interpreted as pornographic by someone who was looking for child porn, arresting the woman and ruining her life (or at least severely disrupting it) was the "right thing" to do. From the description, we aren't talking about splayed legs or exposed genitalia, here. It's a kid's butt, and a playful peer over the shoulder. I'm glad Special Prosecutor Moore overruled District Attorney Rebert, but that Dull was arrested in the first place puts the lie to Moore's assertion that this sort of hysteria "is not a reason for parents and grandparents to avoid taking those pictures." It most certainly is. Or at least getting them printed somewhere outside your home. Unless you consider an arrest and 15 months under the label of "accused child pornographer" to be harmless.
It only gets more confusing from there. Here's the prosecutor who initially approved the charges against Dull:
David Cook, now in private practice . . . declined to say if he disagreed with Rebert's decision to dismiss the charges.
He did say, "There was no legitimate purpose for those photographs. I would never pose my daughter or my step-daughter like that.
"It kind of boils down to a gut feeling. If it feels wrong, it probably is."
That sounds . . . ambiguous. How are Pennsylvania residents supposed to follow the law if the state's prosecutors can't even agree on its application?
Here, once again, is Special Prosecutor Moore, again trying to alleviate fears of parents, and again coming up short:
"It's a subjective versus objective standard," Moore said. "You think it's cute. Someone else might think different. That doesn't make it a crime.
"Lots of sexual offenders use the Sears catalog to get off. That doesn't make (the catalog) illegal."
"It's a reasonable person standard with the reasonable person being a juror," Boyles said.
"And reasonable people can disagree," Moore said. "That's the gray area. That's when it comes to us."
Boyles and Moore also agreed that parents don't need to worry unnecessarily.
"Family pictures are family pictures," Boyles said.
"But if more of your pictures of your kids are of them naked rather than clothed, you might have a problem."
So in sum, if you don't want to get arrested and charged for taking nude photos of your infant or toddler, make sure you know what criteria your local prosecutor uses when navigating that "gray area" between a cute butt and a criminally alluring one (note: you probably don't want to actually pose this question to him). Also, if you find yourself under investigation after dropping off a roll of film at the CVS, you might want to bake the prosecutor some cookies, since it appears that his "gut" will be the final arbiter of whether you're a doting parent or an accused child pornographer.
Finally, even if the nude photos you've taken of your kids pass the clear-as-mud "cute butt," "gut feeling," and "reasonable people can disagree/that's when it comes to us" tests, and are deemed innocent as a basket of puppies, you could still be in violation of the law if the state determines that the clothed to unclothed-but-innocent ratio in your family photo albums is inappropriate.
Got all that? Good.
Because they promise, you really have nothing to worry about.
|5.4.09 @ 11:43AM|#
"It's a difficult distinction to make. What's a cute butt and
what's pornographic?"
Yeah that is a difficult distinction to make; if you are fucking
pervert who gets turned on by seeing a naked child. A normal person
sees a three year old running around naked and thinks "oh what a
cute kid". This twisted bastard gets a hard on.
|5.4.09 @ 11:54AM|#
I think it's pretty clear: if your pictures make the prosecutor
get a hard-on, he'll feel guilty about it and go on a witch-hunt to
try suppress his shame by misdirecting it towards you.
The really offensive thing here is that the pervert who prosecuted
this innocent woman faces no consequences for his aggression.
-jcr
Enrique|5.4.09 @ 11:57AM|#
I'm not blessed with children myself, but I have to say - parents shouldn't take pictures of their naked toddlers. Ms. Dull's hardship notwithstanding, there's just no sensible reason to take nude pictures of your children. They're not cute, sometimes they're creepy, and always they end up as a source of embarassment when the kid grows up. Just stop already.
|5.4.09 @ 12:02PM|#
Not to give the State any slack here, but the guy who turned her
in is a serious asshole.
Hey guy, how about you do a modicum of research before you accuse
someone of something like this.
Xeones|5.4.09 @ 12:05PM|#
Fuck that Walmart worker for looking at pictures of a kid and thinking porn, yo. And, sorry Pain, but the DA ran with it and then tried to justify it. He can eat a bag of dicks too.
|5.4.09 @ 12:05PM|#
I would never pose my daughter or my step-daughter like
that.
And, as we all know, If the DA wouldn't do it, It should be
illegal!
And if the DA *would* do it, but only because he's special and
you're a civilian, well, guess what...
JP|5.4.09 @ 12:06PM|#
"It was an interesting case"
We could have learned so much from observing this specimen. It is a
pity that the experiment had to be terminated prematurely.
ed|5.4.09 @ 12:09PM|#
JUNE CLEAVER ARRESTED FOR DISTRIBUTING CHILD
PORN!
"Baby Picture" October 31, 1959
Miss Landers asks her students to bring in a baby picture for a
beautiful baby contest. Without telling Beaver, June submits a
photo of infant Beaver naked on a rug. Beaver is embarrassed but
his mother thinks the photo cute. When Beaver requests the return
of the photo, Miss Landers gives it to him without looking at it.
Later, Ward cuts the photo down to just a headshot.
|5.4.09 @ 12:11PM|#
"They're not cute, sometimes they're creepy, and always they end
up as a source of embarassment when the kid grows up. Just stop
already."
So clearly the answer is to throw everyone in jail who offends your
sensibilities. Yeah that makes sense.
Lester Hunt|5.4.09 @ 12:14PM|#
Lewis Carroll was so lucky to be living in the "repressive" Victorian era.
|5.4.09 @ 12:22PM|#
[District Attorney] Rebert said in Dull's case, "What made
them offensive was their graphic nature. A little girl with her
bare butt showing, kind of looking over her shoulder.
Damn, ed beat me to it. Oh well, I got it in first on the
Agitator.
the innominate one|5.4.09 @ 12:31PM|#
The lesson to be learned is: invest in a digital camera and a photo printer.
|5.4.09 @ 12:33PM|#
Lordy, I love naked baby pictures.
... now I'll sit here and wait for the SWAT storm.
Seriously. I have adorable pictures of my weejuns crawling,
running, rolling around in all their pre- and post-bath-time
natural glory. They're having fun in their birthday suits.
Now, I try to delete or avoid posting pictures that show the boys'
'junk', out of deference to their future "JEEZ, mom!" responses,
but otherwise? What's the problem?
If I dared take these photos to the shop to be developed, I guess
I'd be arrested.
Better buy some photo paper for the home printer, I suppose.
|5.4.09 @ 12:37PM|#
[District Attorney] Rebert said in Dull's case, "What made
them offensive was their graphic nature. A little girl with her
bare butt showing, kind of looking over her shoulder.
Sounds to me like DA Rebert needs to be on some kind of a watch
list, given his apparent propensity for certain urges when shown a
picture of a toddler's naked butt.
Zeb|5.4.09 @ 12:39PM|#
The problem of child pornography is children being raped, not some perv wanking to an innocent picture of a naked 3 year old. If you can't tell the difference between a child being hurt and a baby picture then kill yourself now.
stuartl|5.4.09 @ 12:40PM|#
I'm not blessed with children myself...
there's just no sensible reason to take nude pictures of your
children. They're not cute, sometimes they're creepy,
....
There may be a relationship between the first phrase and your being
creeped out. Most parents find it cute. Giving a young child a bath
is part of the fun of being a parent. Pictures are a way of
preserving the fun.
Uh oh, am I going to be arrested for admitting I enjoyed a part of
parenthood that involved my children being naked? And that I enjoy
the memories?
|5.4.09 @ 12:40PM|#
Let's up the ante.
Come and get me, coppers!
naked
baby!
TWO naked
babies!
And that's just a sampling.
Oh, and I've disabled anonymous posting, so mr. "frog prep" can
keep it to himself.
|5.4.09 @ 12:41PM|#
Do pedophiles actually get off on baby pictures? I thought they
liked their victims a little older.
The surrealistic absurdity of situations like this must be having
an effect on people's desires to have children. It must. Half the
ways the state can fuck you--hard--is through your children,
whether it's this story, or taking them away for spanking them, or
losing custody because you were found with a joint, or
whatever.
|5.4.09 @ 12:47PM|#
Epi, when my 2 year-old got into a fight with a plant stand 10
days ago (the plant stand won), my husband's first response was,
"CPS will come after us if you take him to the ER."
Thank goodness our pediatrician's are not alarmists and merely
ordered x-rays.
Still, every last person asked, "how did this happen?" It was like
they were waiting for my story to change.
It was purely accident, but instead of being able to focus my
concern on my child, I was diverted to worries about Them taking
him away.
Small wonder that nearly all my nightmares anymore are about losing
my children.
|5.4.09 @ 12:50PM|#
Still, every last person asked, "how did this
happen?"
I am way too sarcastic to be a parent. The first response that came
to mind is "I beat him for asking too many questions. Are you
looking for a little taste?"
Abdul|5.4.09 @ 12:53PM|#
In Korea, it's common to post photos of your male child's
"kochusa" (Korean for "pepper" and slang for penis). It's so
common, that photography studios mainly advertise thier trade by
posting wedding photos and little boys' linuses outside their
shops.
I live in an area fairly densely populated with Korean-Americans,
and some of the photo-studios around here feature the Kochusa shot.
Slammer-time, you kim chee eating perverts!
|5.4.09 @ 12:54PM|#
SF, I know, me too. I thought the same sorts of things, but my fear caused me to bite my tongue nearly in two O_o
|5.4.09 @ 12:57PM|#
I bet I'd be arrested within the week if I posted the video from
my younger son's birth. The boy had an erection that would put a
horse to shame, and it's captured right there in technicolor.
Although, maybe I don't even need to post it. Possession is crime
enough, isn't it?
Hmmm... If I do get arrested, how will I let you guys know?
|5.4.09 @ 12:58PM|#
That's exactly what I'm talking about, Bronwyn. It doesn't just apply to children, of course. Try walking around with a girlfriend who has poison ivy on her face (if it gets around the eyes it looks like she's been beaten). That's a real blast, let me tell you.
|5.4.09 @ 12:59PM|#
Thank the FSM for digital cameras. The need to subject one's
personal pictures to the vigilant eyes of the neighborhood photo
counter staff is decreasing all the time.
Also, did it not occur to the DA that if Granny had intended to
start a career as a pornographer, she probably wouldn't have
brought the pics to Walmart? I mean, I know that all of my
homemade porn gets developed in private, yo.
|5.4.09 @ 1:01PM|#
Oh, I'm sure you got the stink-eye from everyone.
"No, really, it's poison ivy."
Uhhh huh.
Before we had kids, my husband and I used to goof around when we
were out and about. He'd randomly shout at me, "god DAMN it,
woman!" and I'd try my best to keep a serious face while I
sputtered apologies. I always cracked up, though, so the shock to
the bystanders was broken.
Now that we've got the kids, we're terrified to play around. Even
once the boys are old enough to play the game with us, we won't
dare.
|5.4.09 @ 1:05PM|#
"Before we had kids, my husband and I used to goof around when
we were out and about. He'd randomly shout at me, "god DAMN it,
woman!" and I'd try my best to keep a serious face while I
sputtered apologies. I always cracked up, though, so the shock to
the bystanders was broken.
Now that we've got the kids, we're terrified to play around. Even
once the boys are old enough to play the game with us, we won't
dare."
I believe the poly sci text books call that a soft totalitarian
state. I don't blame you for being smart, but that is fucked
up.
|5.4.09 @ 1:08PM|#
Slammer-time, you kim chee eating perverts!
Fermented cabbage does things to a person.....
|5.4.09 @ 1:15PM|#
"In Korea, it's common to post photos of your male child's
"kochusa" (Korean for "pepper" and slang for penis). It's so
common, that photography studios mainly advertise thier trade by
posting wedding photos and little boys' linuses outside their
shops.
I live in an area fairly densely populated with Korean-Americans,
and some of the photo-studios around here feature the Kochusa shot.
Slammer-time, you kim chee eating perverts!"
Gotta love Koreans but man they do some funky shit sometimes.
JB|5.4.09 @ 1:15PM|#
Everything is against the law now.
There is no longer such a thing as the rule of law in the US
anymore. They won't even go after one of their own when he is a
complete and utter hypocrite (Spitzer).
It's all about force and whim. It's long past time for US citizens
to respond in the same manner. Governments should be afraid of
their people.
Cabeza De Vaca|5.4.09 @ 1:24PM|#
Episiarch,
You caught your woman looking at another man, so you rubbed her
eyes with poison ivy. Right?
|5.4.09 @ 1:27PM|#
I'm not blessed with children myself, but I have to say -
parents shouldn't take pictures of their naked toddlers.
And I have to say, as someone who DOES has kids, that you don't
know fuck-all about how this works (no offense intended), about how
you take thousands and thousands of shots and maybe some of them
might be deemed by an overly vigorous prosecutor to meet his or her
thoroughly subjective standard of being offensive.
But, yeah, I'm glad we have the capability now to develop digital
pictures at home.
bubba|5.4.09 @ 1:28PM|#
I'm not blessed with children myself
Enrique, you could have just stopped there.
The whole point of taking the pictures is 1) they *are* cute and 2)
they *do* embarrass the shit out of your kids.
|5.4.09 @ 1:29PM|#
Alvar, you are very insightful, but it wasn't for looking at another man, it was for taking too long to get me another beer while making a chicken pot pie in the microwave.
|5.4.09 @ 1:32PM|#
"Alvar, you are very insightful, but it wasn't for looking at
another man, it was for taking too long to get me another beer
while making a chicken pot pie in the microwave."
I thought it was for not changing the tire quickly enough or having
your slippers ready at the door when you got home.
|5.4.09 @ 1:33PM|#
"Lots of sexual offenders use the Sears catalog to get
off."
A guy with issues, who sees porn everywhere he looks. Whee.
not the real jb|5.4.09 @ 1:35PM|#
The surrealistic absurdity of situations like this must be having an effect on people's desires to have children. It must. Half the ways the state can fuck you--hard--is through your children, whether it's this story, or taking them away for spanking them, or losing custody because you were found with a joint, or whatever.
True story from just yesterday: I put one of my four-month-old
twins in his high chair. He started screaming, so I pulled him out.
He was kicking and caught his thigh on the edge of the high chair
tray, giving him a huge bruise.
For a few minutes I wondered if his leg was broken because he was
screaming like he never had before. I admit that the thought of
taking him to the hospital was tempered by the concern of getting
on CPS' watchlist. He stopped crying after a few minutes, and he's
fine - just a big blue bruise on his upper thigh.
Now my wife and I are taking care to dress him in pants so no one
will see it and suspect anything.
So, yeah, though we still wanted to have kids, this
"surrealistically absurd situation" does affect us as parents.
|5.4.09 @ 1:35PM|#
Epi, do you know my husband?
...
ARE you my husband?
"Bitch! Where my beer and chicken pot pie?" Is my husband's
favorite.
I lazily (while lounging in my bare feet, nibbling bonbons) say,
"they're in the fridge. Git 'em yer dam self!"
|5.4.09 @ 1:35PM|#
Try walking around with a girlfriend who has poison ivy on
her face (if it gets around the eyes it looks like she's been
beaten).
Try walking around with a wife with a heart condition that requires
her to take blood thinners, and so she has all these bruises just
from normal daily living.
Fun times, the looks on people's faces, as they ponder whether
you're a wife-beater and should be reported to the authorities.
|5.4.09 @ 1:39PM|#
Every time my toddler finds a wall or cabinet or table with his
face, I shake my head and think, "do we have to go anywhere or see
anyone before that heals?"
Unless you wrap them in bubble wrap, these kids are going to look
like they've taken a turn in the tumbling machine.
They are made of rubber, you know. Ever see one hit the floor and
bounce back up before you even have a chance to catch them? It's
amazing!
|5.4.09 @ 1:42PM|#
I should add (and then I'll play some solitaire and shut up),
that now my son is wearing a Wee Walker boot.
Which he loves, by the way.
And yes, we're getting The Look from public souls who have no kids.
At The Children's Place, though, I noticed people looking and
smiling in a knowing way.
Which makes me wonder if these DAs and tard photo shop staff have
any kids. And if they do, what was it that turned off their Parent
circuits?
SpongePaul|5.4.09 @ 1:47PM|#
Try walking around with a girlfriend who has poison ivy on her
face (if it gets around the eyes it looks like she's been
beaten).
Try walking around with a wife with a heart condition that requires
her to take blood thinners, and so she has all these bruises just
from normal daily living.
Fun times, the looks on people's faces, as they ponder whether
you're a wife-beater and should be reported to the
authorities
______________________________________________
Try dating a female hockey player. after a tourney one time we went
out for a nice dinner. after taking pucks to the arm/body etc for 4
days we were a bit bruised. she had a huge bruise on her elbow that
i must admit looked the same as a grabing bruise, and a black eye.
I know i got looked at real hard. big guy beating up on little
girl, we laughed about it, but to this day there are people who
proly think i beat women out there because of nights like that,
LOL!
|5.4.09 @ 1:48PM|#
OMG, I have these pictures of me giving my baby daughter a bath.
The picture was taken by my wife. Lots of bubble bath. Quite quit.
To think our lives could STILL be ruined.
Only a sexually repressed lawyer or a pedophile could make an issue
out of it. Only yet another reason why lawyers and pedophiles
deserve each other at the bottom of the societal food chain.
|5.4.09 @ 1:51PM|#
Society is strange. It seethes with the feral and outlandish.
This local DA nutjob is truly a menace to the progression of
society.
Time misplaced this weirdo as he should be rooting out heretics and
burning them at the stake in 1235.
Tacos mmm...|5.4.09 @ 1:55PM|#
"Lots of sexual offenders use the Sears catalog to get off. That doesn't make (the catalog) illegal."
In my defense, I was 13, the internet hadn't been invented yet, and
the Wishbook had a bangin' lingerie section.
|5.4.09 @ 2:00PM|#
I just watched Godfather II (for the umpteenth time) over the
weekend. In one of the "prequel" segments the baby Fredo is shown
nude from the front, as he lies on a table crying from illness. I
suppose such a scene would be potentially actionable now, at least
if some prosecutor somewhere can imagine some pedo somewhere
getting a boner over "Fredo's" infant dong. And, given the
generally asinine nature of prosecutors, I bet you could find more
than one in less than 15 minutes.
What a stupid fucking country/world we've become.
ModestAmerican|5.4.09 @ 2:03PM|#
Thats why you just use digital. And keep your family pictures
with your family.
Half the pictures my parents had of me where nakes. I was a child
who dodn't like to wear clothes.
Well that was the 70's. When it wasn't a SIN to be human.
|5.4.09 @ 2:14PM|#
"I just watched Godfather II (for the umpteenth time) over the
weekend. In one of the "prequel" segments the baby Fredo is shown
nude from the front, as he lies on a table crying from illness. I
suppose such a scene would be potentially actionable now, at least
if some prosecutor somewhere can imagine some pedo somewhere
getting a boner over "Fredo's" infant dong. And, given the
generally asinine nature of prosecutors, I bet you could find more
than one in less than 15 minutes."
The girl who played Michael's hot Italian wife in the first one was
17 when she did the topless scene. I am really surprised the movie
hasn't been banned or the scene perminantly deleted like some
undesirable in Stalinist Russia.
|5.4.09 @ 2:17PM|#
Don't blame the Walmart employee for reporting this, or the
pediatrician or the gym teacher who reports strange bruises for
this type of thing. If it came to light that they saw this stuff
and didn't say anything they would be in deep shit. First they'd
lose their jobs and second they'd probably be prosecuted
themselves.
The blame ultimately lies with the thugs with badges who prosecute
based on such reports.
|5.4.09 @ 2:26PM|#
Sounds like a nifty dissertation for someone. Figure out how many childhood injuries go untreated because of the fear of being reported to CPS.
jtuf|5.4.09 @ 2:44PM|#
I think it's all a misunderstanding. The courts define pornography as media designed to be sexually arousing. Obviously, the prosecutor thinks that a picture of 3 year old bathing is sexually arousing.
not the real jb|5.4.09 @ 2:49PM|#
Sounds like a nifty dissertation for someone. Figure out how many childhood injuries go untreated because of the fear of being reported to CPS.
It would be, but it's very difficult to prove a negative, let alone
that something *caused* a negative.
Plus, I don't think any parent in their right minds would check
"Yes, I've hesitated to seek proper medical assistance because I
was worried someone would think I beat my kids."
And it would be *very* hard to pass institutional review because
there is a possibility of revealing illegal activity.
If you have some time, read this Reader's Digest article about
parents of a child with brittle bone disorder:
http://www.rd.com/content/printContent.do?contentId=31773&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=500&width=790&modal=true
The father was a foreign national and was being deported just on
the accusation of felony abuse.
Janet Reno|5.4.09 @ 2:52PM|#
Prosecuting people gives results!
90+ percent of people charged plead guilty.
The others pay defense lawyers.
More prosecutions result in more money for future
prosecutions.
Who could possibly be supportive of child abuse?
|5.4.09 @ 3:25PM|#
[Plus, I don't think any parent in their right minds would check
"Yes, I've hesitated to seek proper medical assistance because I
was worried someone would think I beat my kids."]
This parent has hesitated and considered rescheduling obligatory
medical check-ups with the family pediatrician for his young
daughter.
She is a VERY rough-and-tumble child who requires a lot of
supervision just to protect her from her own driving sense of
adventure which means she pretty much wears small bruises on her
shins and legs a good part of the time from just pushing the
envelope.
I am paranoid about this, to be honest, and would be horrified if I
had to take her in to the general hospital for a medical
emergency.
|5.4.09 @ 3:36PM|#
I had to go testify as a character witness for my godson's
sister (daughter to one of my best friends), whose teacher filed a
report with CPS because the teenager was carrying around a book
called "Magical Herbs". This was pre-Harry Potter, but she saw the
book in the library and wanted to give it a try.
The teacher reported that the book was "suspicious" and the parents
were likely in a cult, or "Satanists" and so the fun began.
|5.4.09 @ 3:41PM|#
I was a child who dodn't like to wear clothes.
I used to have neighbors with two toddlers. As far as I could tell,
they didn't own a stitch of clothing. In two years, I don't recall
seeing them one time with clothes on. Err, the kids, I mean.
Tony|5.4.09 @ 3:45PM|#
Holy Shit we have all turned into a bunch of fuckin idoits.. Its a grandma taking harmless pics of her grandchild. We have lost sight of common sense in this country. and the person who said they have no kids,but parents should take pics of their kids naked.. if you have no kids shut the fuck up.. if you think its sick to take funny pics of your kid running aroud naked..YOU ARE SICK
|5.4.09 @ 4:04PM|#
Was there not some ad in the 50's that has the same pose with a bare ass? What the prosecutor thought was an interesting case was gearing up to ruin a woman's life.
|5.4.09 @ 5:08PM|#
As soon as the legal system defines the human body as a porn, we're all done for.
|5.4.09 @ 5:12PM|#
As soon as the legal system defines the human body as a
porn, we're all done for.
Multiculturalism to the rescue, my friend. Burqas for everyone!
|5.4.09 @ 5:13PM|#
"""Sounds to me like DA Rebert needs to be on some kind of a
watch list, given his apparent propensity for certain urges when
shown a picture of a toddler's naked butt."""
Agreed, if it's in the eye of the beholder...
"""Was there not some ad in the 50's that has the same pose with a
bare ass?"""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppertone_Girl
What we really need is a Ministry of Information to go back and
modify the ads so they are safe.
|5.4.09 @ 5:17PM|#
From the above wiki page
"At the turn of the 21st century, Coppertone revised drawings of
the Coppertone Girl so that they would be less revealing in an era
of heightened sensitivity regarding pedophilia. Some recent
versions show only the girl's lower back, as opposed to her
buttocks or wearing a T-shirt, a hat, and holding a bottle of
Coppertone while the puppy is shown pulling on her shirt."
|5.4.09 @ 6:10PM|#
The surrealistic absurdity of situations like this must be
having an effect on people's desires to have children.
It's not the reason why I didn't have kids, but it's definitely one
of the reasons I'm okay with it. It's most *definitely* the reason
why I've never tried to become a mentor or Big Sister or whatever
to a minor child. I'll mentor young women in college, and I'll be
the "bad influence" (joke, hello!) on my friends' kids, but
underaged kids that I don't know? I steer clear.
|5.4.09 @ 6:11PM|#
"It kind of boils down to a gut feeling. If it feels wrong, it
probably is."
Where exactly did this guy get his law degree? I'm no lawyer, but I
don't think the notion of personal feelings is part of American
jurisprudence
|5.4.09 @ 6:15PM|#
i'm speechless. i am without speech. i am sitting here with my mouth open and nothing is coming out. oh wait, here it is, how about stupid f'ing lawyer.
|5.4.09 @ 6:17PM|#
If this isn't the biggest display of dumbassery, I don't know
what is.
I say we all take pix of our behinds (after all, we all have one)
and send them to this stupid DA...and change DA (for District
Attorney), to DA for "DumbAss"!
You know when it comes to assh*les, it takes one to know one!
|5.4.09 @ 6:29PM|#
Perhaps the DA needs to take an MSI before he is allowed to handle anymore of these cases. He may have undiagnosed pedophilic urges.
|5.4.09 @ 6:33PM|#
It's come to this: whatever is illegal is now solely at the
discretion of some zealot at election time. Expect a lot more of
this.
/Glad I don't have kids!
/Can't look at my nieces or nephews for fear of being arrested.
Ray|5.4.09 @ 6:35PM|#
I have photos of my youngest standing bare-ass naked in his crib
- about a year old. Use them to to embarrass him sometimes. Anyone
who thinks they are porn just has a dirty mine.
The Walmart employee should be canned.
My son does serious photog for minor league baseball, travels with
local team, etc. Wanted some of his photos printed as gifts to the
players, so he uploaded to Walmart. When he went to the store, was
told he couldn't have the prints without permission of the
photographer - they refused to believe he took such good shots. He
had to go back to his car and come back with $15k of equipment
before they agreed he might be good enough to have taken the photos
- but he had to sign a release form 'just in case' - and they
didn't have a release form. He signed a post-it note and got his
prints. DUH!
Sometimes I wish I could afford to have a hardball lawyer on
retainer just to sue the ass off the idiots of the world....
Maybe I'll start a Facebook group to collect funds for doing just
that....
|5.4.09 @ 6:36PM|#
"It kind of boils down to a gut feeling. If it feels wrong, it
probably is."
I have a gut feeling the entire issue is wrong, and thus all the
DAs involved should be disbarred. Guess that makes it okay to ruin
their careers now, right? It's just my gut feeling, but he SAID it
must be wrong of them to do what they did! Who am I to dispute a
trained lawyer?
|5.4.09 @ 6:40PM|#
it is not the picture of the baby getting out of the bath that is sick - it is the mind of those that see it as pornographic - like this pervert district attorney .. if the argument is , as the warped d.a. contends, that a sick individual would be excited by these sort of photos - remove the pervert - not grannies pictures ... and someone needs to take a look at this weird d.a.
Southern Beale|5.4.09 @ 6:46PM|#
A picture of "a kid's butt, and a playful peer over the
shoulder" ... hmmm, that sounds familiar. Sounds like a Coppertone
ad from the 1940s.
So much for pornography being hard to define but "I know it when I
see it."
|5.4.09 @ 7:00PM|#
This prosecutor should be tyed up and beat to death. It is morons like this that disgust me in the judicial system. Fucker.
Andy Dabydeen|5.4.09 @ 7:06PM|#
I respectfully submit that David Cook is a pedophile ... he saw what a pedophile would have seen.
|5.4.09 @ 7:17PM|#
My son is now 4 1/2. Got his first tooth at 6 months, lost it a
year later when he knocked it out. Has a permanent scar on the
bridge of his nose from when he tripped and fell face first onto a
wooden container. Those egg looking bumps you see on cartoons?
Thanx to him I discovered they are real when he fell out of bed at
9 months. Within a 2 week period just this past February he: got
yet ANOTHER egg on his forehead when he walked into a door I was
opening, split the back of his head open and bled all over when he
fell backwards onto an end table and twisted his ankle causing him
to limp for a couple of days.
Fortunately his pre-school teachers know him well and have a sense
of humor. Every time I walk him in with another war wound, I let
them know its time to call Child Protective services again.
As for the idiot who called the authorities, he/she needs a smack
in the head. Did this fool even discuss it with their supervisor?
Or anyone who actually has a child? I suspect things would have
been very different had that happened.
|5.4.09 @ 7:48PM|#
The only a$$hole that needs to be arrest and thrown in jail is District Attorney Rebert. He needs a couple on anal probes while he spends a few weeks in lock-up.
|5.4.09 @ 7:52PM|#
The stupid fuck District Attorney Rebert could use a good double tap next time somebody see's him walking down the street that fuckin pedophile worthless piece of shit.
|5.4.09 @ 7:56PM|#
My parents have a load of photos of me naked, running around.
I'm a freaking kid, who gives a crap. I think they're cute and
they're of me. I got a naked one standing on the piano keys
screaming, chasing a cat in the backyard... they're adorable and
really funny. If you think that a recording of a child's life is
wrong then you're seriously messed up. I think you're frankly a
pervert if you think it's wrong because obviously you can only
imagine doing something naughty with them.
I'm just so flabbergasted!! Sweet Jesus, if you think that taking
ANY naked photo of your children growing up is wrong then you're
not fit to be a parent. How can you discuss sex, or drugs, or even
really talk to your kids on a personal level if you consider a
picture of them, as they are, to be filthy.
|5.4.09 @ 8:22PM|#
This issue is so touchy, no pun intended! Here is the thing,
when this kind of situation surfaced, I destroyed many photos of my
daughter that she had no clothes on but it showed nothing. I was
not going to leave anything to chance! It is crazy! I have gone
through old photos from when my family was in Sweden, people of all
ages, no clothing, sun bathing and swimming. No issues, nothing
improper. Because of sick individuals, those of us that do not get
a rise out of anything, we can not have something we do not view
the same way they do. How stupid is that!
TIRED OF THE PERVERTS RUNNING THE WORLD!
the innominate one|5.4.09 @ 8:28PM|#
Daniel - although the case reported here is ridiculous, your non sequitur "if you think that taking ANY naked photo of your children growing up is wrong then you're not fit to be a parent" is also ridiculous and presupposes that parents are incapable of sexually exploiting their own children. we know that is not the case.
|5.4.09 @ 8:38PM|#
Same thing happened in the Bay Area years ago, employee at a photo lab got an elderly woman arrested for ordering a reprint of a male child standing in a tub. She called her son when the police arrested her. He's a lawyer and the child in the picture....
|5.4.09 @ 8:52PM|#
the employees of Wally world should be trained right!!!!!!!! she should get some money!!!!!!
|5.4.09 @ 9:00PM|#
There is one thing to note in this case that might give room for
some optimism:
Film? in 2005?
Two words: Digital Camera.
One of the things that makes these cases absurd is that the courts
have ruled that one loses privacy rights when taking film to a
processor....and society has deemed that minimum wage photo clerks
are to be the Protectors of Society.
These are solved by simply not making yourself vulnerable to the
Wannabe Do-Gooders. Use a digital camera.
That said -- it's only a partial solution. Once you upload to
YouTube or Flickr, the whole loss of privacy issue resurfaces.
Nandatte!?|5.4.09 @ 9:13PM|#
Good thing we have more lawyers than doctors in the US... gotta keep all 1mil+ of them fed.
|5.4.09 @ 9:23PM|#
@Enrique and others who take offense on Donna Dull's
actions:
I strongly disagree with you. Me and my girlfriend have pictures
taken of us, in different incidents, standing naked in a bucket
when we were 3-4 years of age during our childhood.
We are 25 and 26 right now. In contrary to your beliefs, we
actually love those pictures and consider them precious. We make
fun of each other in privacy and also amidst family members. We are
a decent -
well to do, educated family (all of our members have a college and
graduate degrees with good jobs), we are moderate-conservative and
moderate-liberal in views.
Thomas|5.4.09 @ 9:28PM|#
Not only did my mother rub my naked body while I was in the bathtub, she also made me suck on her breasts.
|5.4.09 @ 9:36PM|#
Again, the puritanical nature of our evangelical brethren has put us under gun. I sure wish these bible thumpers would focus on their own faults for a change and stop trying to run things.
|5.4.09 @ 9:44PM|#
Just curious about the DA who comments about "perverts" getting off to the Sears Catalog. Doesn't that sound like a man who speaks from experience? I don't blame the Walmart employee - I know a Walmart photo lab employee, and you'd be really, really surprised at what some truly stupid people try to get through the photo lab in terms of photo material.
|5.4.09 @ 9:46PM|#
We seem to be getting more and more of these stories each week of fascist behavior on the part of police, prosecutors, and judges in Pennsylvania. What's going on?
|5.4.09 @ 9:55PM|#
The DA should be thrown in Jail. He is a complete Ass.What a waste of taxpayers money. The worker at Walmart is just a dumbass, well she works at Walmart. I'm sure she isn't a member of Mensa. We must have 20 pictures of my daughter as in infant and toddler where she has no clothes on. If you get excited over that you need to be neutered. People are taking this way too far.
|5.4.09 @ 10:04PM|#
Nudity is not pornography. I thought the Supreme Court made this clear years ago. What is it that gives cops and prosecutors the idea that their moral judgment has anything to do with the law? Child pornography involves images of children engaging in sexual activity, not just naked. Where is Kafka when you need him?
|5.4.09 @ 10:41PM|#
Only perverts calls someone a pervert. So the DA is a pervert for thinking that naked kids is child porn.
|5.4.09 @ 10:47PM|#
Nice try, IHP. It's actually "only totalitarian sociopaths use
their positions to inflict authority on law abiding citizens for
offending warped sensibilities." Projection is projection, no
matter how much you want to try and deny. Fuck you, fuck the DA,
and fuck the busybody Wal-Mart cocksucker who couldn't mind his
fucking business.
But thanks for playing the "let's post, like a coward, after the
thread is dead to try to make the comments section look like a
bunch of assholes" game. Pick up your naked photograph at the
door.
|5.4.09 @ 11:14PM|#
I think everybody in the world should be arrested for running around naked under their clothes.
Obbop|5.4.09 @ 11:35PM|#
Bureaucrats and their bureaucracies are a far greater threat to
our freedom than all foreign terrorists combined.
Also remember that the federal government and the scum vile
unAmerican politicos within create those bureaucracies.
Further along, that federal government is of, for and by an elite
class, corporate America and wealthy/powerful special-interest
groups.
All these are the enemies of the vast majority of American
citizens.
Realize we are in the throes of class warfare.
The vast majority of us are in a clear and present danger and the
danger is from within, from fellow so-called citizens who are
spitting upon us continuously.
|5.5.09 @ 1:31AM|#
"The offense doth speak loudest in protestation."
I'm waiting for the day when suddenly, all of these child porn
campaigners start getting rounded up wholesale. I mean, could there
be a better place for a pedophile to hide than a public
prosecutor's office?
|5.5.09 @ 2:38AM|#
It would appear that this woman was charged because a couple of prosecutors found the photographs sexually arousing. Hmm. Perhaps that says more about them than it does about her.
|5.5.09 @ 3:44AM|#
Americans are f****ing retarded! Shooting and killing people all the time is ok, but taking pictures of your naked offspring is a crime?! Retards! Idiots! I so f****ing hate you even more now!
|5.5.09 @ 4:49AM|#
A normal person sees the picture and says 'How cute.'
A pervert sees the picture and gets aroused.
The DA sees the picture and gets aroused.
The DA is the pervert.
Prosecute the pevert DA!!
|5.5.09 @ 6:20AM|#
I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but is it the
Walmart employee's job to view each and every photo that they
process?! If it isn't, then what was he/she doing looking at those
photos?
As for this not being a big deal, I am a photographer and this is
the kind of thing which can kill someone's career. Think of all of
those photos couples get of their new born laying on the white
pillow with an angelic feel to it. Well now that someone has deemed
it pornographic, the photographer can't take anymore pictures of
naked babies. So there goes their income.
Just another example as to how this country is becoming a Nanny
State.
Jason|5.5.09 @ 6:21AM|#
To Ryan,
These things are a big deal. This case makes the United States one
step closer to a dictatorship, when the people who hold public
office no longer are accountable to the public.... there are going
to be severe problems.
|5.5.09 @ 6:26AM|#
I used to work in a small, locally owned photo lab (Not
somewhere like Wal-Mart, thank god!)
We were required to "screen" photos and report any suspected abuse,
on pain of losing our jobs. That said, we were also told to "use
our best judgement." Which meant, determine the context.
Cute naked baby and child pictures? We saw them constantly and none
needed reporting. Real abuse cases were obvious and I only reported
two in the 3 years I worked there. One was a small boy, standing
naked and crying with a knife at his throat (that pervert somehow
found out cops were waiting for him and had given us a fake name
and never picked them up) and a rich old man who brought in naked,
sexual photos of young teenage girls. Those are the kind of photos
that were worth reporting.
BTW, we also used to develop crime scene photos for the police.
Between that and bachelor party photos, it was not a fun job!
Sounds like someone working at Wal-Mart was new and didn't get what
kind of photos were "normal" yet. Take your photos to locally-owned
photo labs - you'll get better photos and they will get to know
you, unlike idiots at Wally world.
Chris|5.5.09 @ 7:07AM|#
You know... the world has just gone plain nuts... do I need to look through my photo albums and start burning photos?
|5.5.09 @ 7:40AM|#
big brother is out of controle and this story proves it, perants are now read thier Marander Rights by thier kids if they as much as raise thier voices to them out in public, for get about corporal punishment for acting out. kids now have a license to do as they dame will please here in our society, parents do not.if i had it to do all over again, i would have worn a rubber and never had kids, i love mine, i just don't like them! this poledical correctness is out of controle here in America and i hope that Grandmother hits them in thier copertive willets, who apointed wall mart emploies as police officers of the state?
Jeff Engel|5.5.09 @ 7:42AM|#
When I was 5 I took a picture of my grandmother standing around in her bra and panties and when it was developed they put a red stamp on it saying it was inappropriate and not to do it again. I did not find it offensive in the least. As for this case I completely agree with the DA. No grandmother takes a picture of their grandchild standing around nude posing like a 3 year old Vietnamese boy teasing his 50 year old American lover. It is sad this woman didn't have the book thrown at her.
Chris Foley|5.5.09 @ 8:16AM|#
I don't think its such an issue. Maybe because those young whipper snappers didn't want to play with the obese floppy milk suckers of the grandmother..the loneliness of not having a person to insert into her baby baker made her do such an act..there has to be other things looked at mentally with the grandmother..I'll bet you the DA has midget porn on his computer and is probably looking at it as we speak...
The Said Baby From Above|5.5.09 @ 8:21AM|#
This old bitch took pictures of me in an attempt to help out my early modeling career. You assholes took offense to something you knew nothing about. I was sitting back in the crib and I was like " Yo Grams..get the Kitajima cam, we finna start this shit off now.. " So she grabs the camera and I'm thinking all the other babies in the play pen tommorow are gonna be trying to get this snatch..and then the DA comes in after looking at his midget porn and my Grandma almost tripped on her saggy baby feeders..So what my point is...at least foward those pics to Heff cause thats where they was going..and all those lil niggs that are still trying to get in this diaper...pppfftt bitches...
|5.5.09 @ 8:25AM|#
Don't you think that this story have a different ending if she'd sent her husband to get the film developed?
Donna Dull|5.5.09 @ 8:37AM|#
I'm glad to see most of you people are on my side in this issue. I in no way meant for this picture to be pornographic and even if I did I would have gone at it in a much more discreet manner. I would have used my Sony cyber-shot DSC-HX1 and put up shades and lamps with a Toys 'R Us backdrop with my granddaughter making a "come hither" motion to me.
Engeler|5.5.09 @ 8:53AM|#
That is clearly child porn at his day and age, you people should know better than to take nudes of your children and grandchildren! And for Christ sake! why are you allowing your children and grandchildren to take a bath in the nude, a child should be fully clothed at all times, especially while in the bath. Shame on you all!
Esteban Gillettos|5.5.09 @ 8:58AM|#
I remember here in Quebec in the 70's there was secret selective sterilization performed at the discretion of doctors - my little brother was hospitalized for flu like symptoms and treated for meningitis and he is now sterile, I was "accidentally" sterilized by a black Haitian doctoress at 24.
Dr. Jeffery Engel|5.5.09 @ 9:00AM|#
This is why swine flu is on the loose, because of people taking
nudes of their child in the bath and getting them developed for the
world to see.
Engel out
Gabe Boylover|5.5.09 @ 9:08AM|#
Has anyone even thought that maybe the old lady's granddaughter
likes to tease the camera with her cute smile, looking over the
shoulder? We do lots to protect children from everything out
there...but who will protect us???
think of the children, people
waste of time/money|5.5.09 @ 9:40AM|#
This is ridiculous and a waste of tax payers money they should be out there looking for real criminals, this is what's wrong with the world today!!! what's the matter can't catch real criminals you have make stupid crap up!! she was just taking a cute pic!!! this employee from walmart needs a new job and a new hobby trying to get their 15 min of fame shame on you!!!! you just ruined this women reputation
|5.5.09 @ 10:13AM|#
I think DA Rebert is projecting in this case. He is probably a closet pedophile.
|5.5.09 @ 10:58AM|#
So, I guess the little girl on the sunscreen bottle peering over her shoulder while the puppy pulls down her bottoms is pron? According to this prosecutor? Is he going to sue Johnson's & Johnson's?
|5.5.09 @ 11:35AM|#
In my opinion D.A. Rebert is just an asshole that want's his name out there in the media. I find it real sad that a parent or grandparent can't take a innocent picture of their child or grandchild taking a bath or just getting out of a bath. The D.A. needs to get that stick out of his ass and realize that there is nothing perverted about this and there is no need to ruin a person's life just to get his name in the media!
|5.5.09 @ 1:36PM|#
Old Coppertone clock STILL up on Ocean Blvd ,
Hampton Beach NH, since the 50's at least,
remember the scotty dog pulling don the little
girls bathing suit?? (Nanny state would probably give the K-9 life
in the pound.)
MILLIONS have checked out that clock over the years. hmmmmm fine
line between cute and criminal.
|5.5.09 @ 4:51PM|#
I think the legal loophole here is that "reasonable people" do not generally apply for jobs at Walmart.
robertswifeintx|5.5.09 @ 7:08PM|#
Our Pizza guy called our house "the NBH house". Every time he delivered our pizza, there was always a naked baby running around! But I too, will not upload pics to be printed if it can be misconstrued. When my daughter twisted her ankle on a slide at school, the e.r. doc ran a list of questions by me that left me feeling uncomfortable to say the least. Now i tell my kids on the weekend to settle down because we "don't do Emergency rooms".
|5.5.09 @ 9:55PM|#
I have photos of my grandsons naked,taken five minutes after their birth. I have photos of my children and grandchildren both clothed and naked and if you call those photos pornography then you are the pervert.
|5.5.09 @ 11:33PM|#
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|5.6.09 @ 12:23AM|#
Basicly this almost happened to me, kids 1 to 4, soaped hair in
the tub, waist up only. Las Vegas kiddy porn cops were all ready to
arrest me. I had had my vehicle vandalized during moving and some
things stolen. I was very lucky not to be arrested when the vehicle
was recovered.
Now here is the rest of the story.
I was dragged before these perverts to be insulted repeatedly and
treatened, had my children treatened, we were all producing child
porn. And my wife threatened. Called one of the most foul things I
could think of and handcuffed when I really got pissed.
They were pictures of me and my sibling in the tub in the 1940's
taken by my parents.
Here is the truth, the biggest pervs are those that look at
pictures of total innocents and loving families taking pictures to
remind then 60 to 70 years in the future and decide that they are
sexually stimulating. Who is aroused, they are. They get the boner.
Perves.
|5.6.09 @ 3:23PM|#
God...I'm moving to Europe where nudity isn't so taboo. To arrest someone for taking naked pictures of their baby is absurd! Next thing you know the police will start raiding your house and checking baby books to make sure you have no nude baby pictures. I'm just utterly shocked and upset that some people consider this porn. If you don't like it don't take pictures of your babies naked. But don't judge people that do. If they are going to arrest people for this, they should also look into arresting anyone that has sexuilly explicit photos out there. We are just categorizing.
|5.8.09 @ 2:35PM|#
How on earth do the victims of these kinds of witch hunts manage to keep calm about the whole thing? A lot of people I know would go absolutely postal if they saw their lives ruined by frivolous child porn charges brought about by clueless idiots. Imagine it: you lose everything you have and are treated as a pedophile because people with exceedingly poor judgment decided to pursue you when in fact they've got nothing to stand on. I'd argue my side, obviously, but then if that didn't work I think I'd end up appearing at the prosecutor's house with a baseball bat...
inhuman|5.14.09 @ 2:18PM|#
hey if your not a parent you would never understand any thing to do with kids until you have your own, ppl have been taking naked pictures of their children and grandchildren for years and if what a parent thinks is a cute keep sake from their childrens childhood turns you on enough to cry child porn then oviously there is something wrong with you not the person taking the pictures in the first place....it is up the the person who makes the laws to put a mechinsam in place to determin the differance i bet the pic turned on the walmart worker thats why this whole thing started maybe if the walmart worker actualy interacted with the woman he would have found out it was her pix and at least get a small glimps in to her personalaty but hey we aren't all in public intaraction here i guess to much work for min wage.
|10.2.09 @ 8:37PM|#
if this is illigial then jonson and jonson need to be put in jail to they have commercialf of baby butts!!!!leave the grandma alone, its not like she was selling it, I think the law needs to take a second look at what child porn is
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