Large Corporation Gives Massive Bonuses!
Shocking stories of massive amounts of bonus money hit the news wires today:
Wal-Mart Giving US Employees $2 Billion In Yearly Award Program
Say it ain't so! An annual program to compensate workers for their contributions to the company over the last year is doling out billions to employees of a massive corporation?! That's unacceptable. Capitalism is broken! And so much money:
The bonus averages $933.60 for each qualified employee, ranging from cashiers to shelf stockers.
No reason Obama shouldn't break out the big guns and say something like this:
People are rightly outraged about these particular bonuses, but just as outrageous is the culture that these bonuses are a symptom of that have existed for far too long.
But wait, Wal-Mart actually did well this year? And the bonuses are mostly going to poor-ish people? It's essentially a stimulus package provided by a private corporation administered at no cost to the government? Oh, well, then that's OK. Why didn't you just say so? After all, Obama believes this:
We believe in people getting rich based on performance and what they have add in terms of value and the products that services that they create.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time.
-
I demand that the government put a stop to this and to all capitalist excess! This minute!
-
umm, I didn't read anything in the BBC piece about Walmart. I'm confused, umm, more than usual....
-
Ii'm becoming convinced that K-MW doesn't get up early enough in the morning to keep pace with the East Coast centric news cycle.
Nothing against 'Lefties are hypocrites' snark but
1) AIG has been done all day every day this week
2) This tries way too hard. Even Red Eye would push this back for a re-write. -
Walmart bad. Taxes good. From the Chicago Sun Times:
Delivering a bitter political pill, Gov. Quinn today soberly made the case for a 50-percent income tax increase to avoid a "mean-spirited" budgetary bloodletting that could cost teachers and cops their jobs and deprive children and seniors of vital state services. . . .
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1483590,w-quinn-budget-tax-increase-031809.article -
I have to admit some confusion as to how you detect any hypocrisy here? Of course there would be no objection to a company which is doing well, that didn't receive any government money to stay afloat, giving out bonuses to its worthy employees. The problem Obama has is a company given massive amounts of money by the government to stay afloat in order to prevent a collapse of the financial sector giving massive bonuses to the employees whose practices destroyed the company and forced the bailout? These aren't remotely analogous situations.
-
Really? I think I'm done here. Go ahead and drink for that one, everyone - but if anyone checks the comments for reader feedback on this one, I hope this counts as a vote for some editorial self-restraint. I am amazed at this attempt to tie this completely irrelevant story to already reprehensible actions on part of Obama.
Bye guys. -
Hampton,
[From the Sun Times]Delivering a bitter political pill, Gov. Quinn today soberly made the case for a 50-percent income tax increase to avoid a "mean-spirited" budgetary bloodletting that could cost teachers and cops their jobs and deprive children and seniors of vital state services
Balancing a budget by cutting spending is being "mean spirited"? Gee, talk about politico-speak! -
I'd love to argue but I have no idea what the post is trying to say. Am I as a lefty supposed to be outraged at the Walmart bonus? Is the idea that lefties hate bonuses in general? Or is it that Wal Mart and Wall Street are fundamentally similar and that it makes no sense to differentiate? None of the above? They all seem a bit silly.
-
This is incredibly shoddy and vapid, even for KM-W.
-
Bob,
The problem Obama has is a company given massive amounts of money by the government to stay afloat in order to prevent a collapse of the financial sector giving massive bonuses to the employees whose practices destroyed the company and forced the bailout? These aren't remotely analogous situations.
You missed the point - I would not blame Il Duce for being outraged at the bonuses paid with bailout money (he could have saved his outrage by NOT giving away money that did not belong to him, but that's another issue). No, the problem is what he said:
"but just as outrageous is the culture that these bonuses are a symptom of that have existed for far too long."
What did he mean by that? The culture of rewarding good work? The culture of generating wealth? The culture of being productive? WHAT CULTURE is he talking about? -
the culture where getting massive bonuses is not tied to any of the following:
The culture of rewarding good work? The culture of generating wealth? The culture of being productive?
-
Katherine - what the fuck is your point?
-
I think she's just making a ha-ha. Really, lighten up, Francis ☺
-
Boy if anything will bring joe back it will be this. But we also need some other trigger words.
Minimum Wage!
Unions!
Uh, Cheap Prescriptions! -
Max,
the culture where getting massive bonuses is not tied to any of [what you mentioned]
Oh, you will have to explain to me why not. If done with the company's money, then what would be the problem?
My issue with Il Duce is his mentioning of "the culture" behind these bonuses. Really, Duce, the Culture? WHAT Culture, and why should YOU care, oh my Duce? That's what I am asking.
Il Duce seems not to care about what Il Duce says. -
I think she's just making a ha-ha. Really, lighten up, Francis ☺
I think this is one of those not-what-you-say-but-how-you-say-it moments.
It needed to be said, but this is a bit weak. -
But wait, Wal-Mart actually did well this year? And the bonuses are mostly going to poor-ish people? It's essentially a stimulus package provided by a private corporation administered at no cost to the government? Oh, well, then that's OK.
Yes, these are all valid reasons to treat the Walmart bonuses differently from the AIG bonuses. Not sure how this advances your argument, but that's probably because I have no idea what your argument is.
Don't know why anyone would think otherwise.
(searches link in vain for any mention of the Walmart bonuses, or any comments by Obama thereof)
(quits)
(drinks) -
OK, this is just trying too hard. Wal-Mart is a wildly successful company making money hand over fist. For it to reward its hard-working employees who helped it get there with bonuses is pretty normal.
These aren't nearly in the same league as retention bonuses not tied in any way to company performance, mandated whether the company does well or loses more money than any company in history. -
I read Obama's comments the other day and I think he had a good point... all this anti-Obama bluster seems disconnected from what he actually said. The gloss is that bonuses that are given regardless of performance or company success are a bad thing; bonuses that reward performance and/or success are at least ok. So it's outrageous (and bad for business) to give bonuses to to failing employees at a failing company.
So... the above article is just horrible in every way.
I'm all against the witch-hunt aspect of "naming names" and I suspect that the worst-case scenario of AIG failing is preferable to the mess the gov't will make out of the bailout. But there're so many valid criticisms... why go all bullshit? -
I'm having trouble seeing the point here, but if it chases away trolls, I'm all for it.
-
How about this? -- The bonuses at AIG are like the tenure system in public schools.
-
If we, the taxpayer, own WalMart as we own AIG, then I am willing to generate a little outrage; otherwis I will just yawn.
-
I'd feel better about politicians going after AIG bonuses if they also passed legislation requiring THEM to return campaign contributions from all firms who have benefited from the bailout.
Until then, it is pure hypocrisy. -
There is one legitimate point here of note: If the government can retroactively tax away the AIG bonuses, why couldn't it do the same here, if for some odd reason Wal-Mart employees got Congress' List?
-
It was a joke. Relax people.
-
The gloss is that bonuses that are given regardless of performance or company success are a bad thing; bonuses that reward performance and/or success are at least ok. So it's outrageous (and bad for business) to give bonuses to to failing employees at a failing company.
It would be outrageous if done with my money, or yours. If it is done with the company's money, then what does it matter? If a company rewards its employees with undue bonuses, that's the CEO's and the stockholders' affair, not Il Duce's. If Il Duce was outraged at the bonuses being issued with Bailout money, fair. But he's now talking about "the culture" behind it, as if Il Duce was talking about something pervasive.
(And I have called him Il Duce because he as not upgraded [just yet] to the level of Koba. Again, not yet.) -
-
WHAT CULTURE is he talking about?
The culture of doing anything without the approval of Our Masters in DC.
If we, the taxpayer, own WalMart as we own AIG,
You, as a taxpayer, don't own a single blessed share of AIG. The government owns 80%, but you? Nothing. -
Say, if Wal-Mart is doing this well, shouldn't it, with its greater ability to make money, give the excess to the government to distribute to those who need it more?
-
So big bonuses are OK when the corporations are actually making money, eh?
Let's rewind to the Dems show trial hearings lambasting all the oil company executives last year when oil was $4 a gallon and the oil companies were making big profits. -
How fucking dare anyone out there make fun of Katherine after all she has been through!
She worked at Weekly Standard, she's got bad hair. She sold her fuckin eggs.
Her husband turned out to be a user, a cheater, and now her car won't start. All you people care about is… readers and making fun of her.
SHE'S A HUMAN! What you don't realize is that Katherine is working hard and all you do is write a bunch of crap about her.
She hasn't been published by a real magazine in years. Her article is called "Large Corporation Gives Massives Bonuses" for a reason because all you people want is BONUSES! BONUSES! BONUSES BONUSES BONUSES!
LEAVE HER ALONE! You are lucky she even posts for you BASTARDS!
LEAVE Katherine ALONE!…..Please. -
"Let's rewind to the Dems show trial hearings lambasting all the oil company executives last year when oil was $4 a gallon and the oil companies were making big profits."
But those are evil men. eeevilllll -
If the post is a joke, it's a bad joke told badly. Don't quit your day job.
o wait -
and by "men", of course, I meant Congress ;)
-
"but just as outrageous is the culture that these bonuses are a symptom of that have existed for far too long."
WHAT CULTURE is he talking about?
The culture of rewarding failure.
If you don't see that, then you are being wilfully obtuse. -
Wal-Mart should be bailing out the financial sector or something, not oppressing its workers with excess money. That money will make them unhappy, anyway, as they will be overwhelmed by the too many choices in how to spend the money.
-
all this anti-Obama bluster seems disconnected from what he actually said
Of course it is disconnected. The point of most Obama bashers here isn't to analyze the substance of what he says, but to be able to use any thing he says as a way to level ad hominem attacks against him. -
the culture where getting massive bonuses is not tied to any of the following:
The culture of rewarding good work? The culture of generating wealth? The culture of being productive?
Not to pick nits here, but the AIG bonuses in question were not tied to good work nor were they ever. They were contractual bonuses paid based on employee retention. That's an entirely different bonus both in purpose and legality. When most people hear "bonus" they think "Hey, good job" *slap on back* "Here's 1% of the profit your department made".
These were bonuses paid which automatically kicked in after X years of service.
-
"Wal-Mart should be bailing out the financial sector or something, not oppressing its workers with excess money. That money will make them unhappy, anyway, as they will be overwhelmed by the too many choices in how to spend the money"
Don't worry about it.
After Obama gets through, all the Wal-Mart stores will be converted to GUM stores where everyone will be entitled to an equal share of all the out of stock merchandise.
It's only fair. -
"It would be outrageous if done with my money, or yours. If it is done with the company's money, then what does it matter?"
I find it outrageous and offensive in the same way book-burnings, abstract modern art, and gold-plated teeth are outrageous -- a waste of money and resources that sends an ugly message.
I'd be more offended if I had to pay for it, but I judge it as a bad thing in any case. -
I really don't understand your point here. Are you suggesting that the proposed punitive tax will affect Wal-mart workers? It obviously won't: they don't make more than 250K, AND Wal-mart's not getting out. Are you suggesting that some politicians think these bonuses should be taxed at 90%? Nobody's saying that. Are you saying that the AIG folks--or other companies that get the taxpayer dime--their bonuses? But this company is effectively bankrupt. Obviously their performance sucks. I'd much rather not have most of these companies bailed out at all. But if we're going to have some hybrid of bankrupt/not-bankrupt based on bailouts, the money better not be going for "performance" bonuses.
I understand that this post is presumably meant as a joke, but it fails--the analogies are just too weak. -
ChicagoTom,
Obama's the one being obtuse. Willfully so. The bonuses in the AIG case are retention bonuses, some of which are for people who weren't around when AIG made all of its stupid decisions. Such bonuses aren't paid out because of great performance (of the people or of the company) but to keep people from leaving. Whether AIG needed to shell out that much money or whether paying bonuses in the manner it is was a good idea is another issue.
In any event, the government passed a law authorizing bonus payments in connection with the bailout. Don't you have a problem with the president and Congress changing the rules like this? They knew this was going to happen; why didn't they draft the bill differently? This is really awful, and I don't think giving Obama or Congress a pass is a good idea. -
The culture of rewarding failure.
If you don't see that, then you are being wilfully obtuse.
Mmmhmm.
Obama to AIG: I refuse, REFUSE sir, to abide by these bonuses. It's rewarding failure, damnit! What's that? Yes, the next $40 billion is being wired to your account as I speak.
Rewarding failure?!! You have got to be fucking kidding me. Obama bitches about rewarding failure with .00000001% of the rewards-of-failure he and his administration have willfully given failing companies...that failed in a particularly failure-ey kind of failed way?
How's that for the "substance" of the Obama's administration. -
Oh, yeah, and there's Paul's point, which is a superior one--the rewarding of failure is up into the trillions of dollars, now.
-
Great post.
Fuck them anti-business liberals. Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them. -
The culture of rewarding failure.
If you don't see that, then you are being wilfully obtuse.
Don't tell me that - tell it to Il Duce, who seems to like rewarding failure here and there - through bailouts. -
Thinking about this some more, the most prominent culture of failure that keeps getting rewarded is the Congress. Don't see anyone punishing them.
-
Don't see anyone punishing them.
Pamela Martin and Associates? -
What is truly sad, most liberals and liberaltarians don't see the parody in Kathy's post. Life imitates absurdist art.
-
Warty | March 19, 2009, 5:13pm | #
I'm having trouble seeing the point here, but if it chases away trolls, I'm all for it.
What Warty said.
Plus my vote to make KM-W Senior Editor
Hell Reason ,you made feminist market socialist Kerry Howley a "Senior Editor" and she didn't even have a clear understanding of what libertarian means. -
Not been following the bonuses thing
but basically if its a private company then they can pay people whatever they want
if it was a private company but is now government subsidized then government has a right to dictate the running of the company including bonuses
i'm led to believe that the Obama against bonuses thing was just the companies that took governement money
any economically liberal person should be against government subsidies but if the companies take taxpayers money then it only seems reasonable that they don't just split it up for execs
I'd never be one to defend a Democrat but
From what I've read its not a rampant anti-capitalism that goin on here
just shock that companies get bailed out then piss away tax payers money givin it to execs
As an economically liberal person I'm all against subsidies and bailouts but
I can see why Obama would be pissed off with bonuses
its like your mate screws up financially and is gonna get kicked out of his house if he doesn't pay the rent
so you lend him the money then the next thing you know you see him walking out of a strip club with powder all over his nose -
Of course there would be no objection to a company which is doing well, that didn't receive any government money to stay afloat, giving out bonuses to its worthy employees.
Where the fuck have you been? For years I have seen criticism of bonuses within companies that werent being bailed out. -
For years I have seen criticism of bonuses within companies that werent being bailed out.
Really? During the Bush years? And that helps this craptastic snark make sense how? -
Her post all makes sense if you read the headline of the last link she provided.
-
Since the election Reason seems to be suffering from an ideological vacuum that leads to silly shit like this. I don't think they know who to market to anymore. The culture is shifting.
This has become the state of this blog: Strawman, after strawman, after strawman. The name of the magazine itself is starting to resemble the lame "No Spin Zone!" marketing strategy.
Is Welch asleep?
Sincerely,
John Stossel
P.S. Can some please hit R.C. Dean for me? He deserves it. -
"Don't tell me that - tell it to Il Duce, who seems to like rewarding failure here and there - through bailouts."
What a complete bastardization of reasoning. The bailout is an attempt, regardless of how you feel about it, to prop up an economy that some feel is prepared to go through the floor.
Taking that money, and then offering it to employees who failed at their jobs is obviously much different than a government bailout. The intentions are different, the context is different, and only someone who is so mired in ideology would fail to understand that.
Once again, bad analogies are offered up as rational discourse on here. I'm beginning to think it's a handicap. -
"Thinking about this some more, the most prominent culture of failure that keeps getting rewarded is the Congress. Don't see anyone punishing them."
No, it's an unfortunate consequence of allowing monoliths in the private sector to exist to the degree that their failure can have dramatic consequences that go far beyond the local five-and-dime going out of business.
It would be even more catastrophic under any kind of Libertarian governance because Libertarians don't care. Clearly that's not factored into many Libertarian computer models.
To paraphrase a common Libertarian maxim: The further removed that a person is from a situation, the more idealistic they can be about that situation.
The statement effectively sums up the Libertarian mindset, but the irony is obviously lost on many of you. -
"Why am I a Libertarian? I submit, with some serious reservation, that it is easier to bring heart to a heartless doctrine than bring sense to a senseless one. At least Libertarianism makes sense; now, to just make it more human..."
-
I am either Tony's sock puppet or a spoof. Guess which one. I dare you.
-
We can all be failures now!
Free Obama money for everyone! No one has to work any more. -
Yeah, but if Wal-Mart were unionized, they'd be required to give out bonuses, that's more fairer.
-
"Free Obama money for everyone! No one has to work any more."
Oh, yeah, people just can't wait to throw the free Obama cash on their bed, and roll around in it. The excitement is palpable.
Apparently, Libertarians seem to think that jobs grow on trees. Yes, there's a job out there for every single person who wants one, and if there isn't then tough shit (but they don't talk about that. "Markets Are Magical!"
Either way, Libertarians seem certain that it's because people are just lazy, and well, society needs to trim the fat too, right?
With that being said, what the hell do you do for a living, son? Come on, it's the Internet. You can at least make something up.
FYI, keep talking like you're talking, and you will ensure that your ideas will not make any impact; just like your life, and just like your misplaced anger. -
I am either Tony's sock puppet or a spoof. Guess which one. I dare you.
based on the juvinile sounding fauxrage, I'm gonna go with.... Tony! -
So Obama is against "The culture of rewarding failure," is he?
I expect he'll be submitting his plan to eliminate the social safetynethammock any day now. -
Markets are Magical is just MNG at his drunken, incoherent best. The obsession with R C Dean and the absence of critical thinking skills are like a giant thumbprint.
-
"welcome to Evil WalMart. We have discount laser beams for your sharks (imported from sweatshops overseas). Domestic, subsidized mutant, ill-tempered sea bass is now considered an affront to those who pretend to have peanut allergies and have been removed."
-
P.S. Can some please hit R.C. Dean for me? He deserves it.
Hey! What did I do to deserve that? -
this may be the worst piece ever posted on hit and run.
-
It may be that I am marginally retarded, but I'm not getting this at all. How do performance bonuses given by Walmart to their employees remotely compare to massive bonuses given at taxpayer expense to guys who exploited the system to enrich themselves, bankrupted the company and nearly destroyed the entire financial system?
-
I have 3 friends, and two relatives who have lost their homes, and jobs within the last 6 months. Who cares if a Wal Mart employee who earns $7 dollars an hour is getting a little "hush money"? Let's focus on our community before we start pointing fingers.
No response necessary, this is just MY personal opinion. -
http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2009/03/19/9217#comments
-
How do performance bonuses given by Walmart to their employees remotely compare to massive bonuses given at taxpayer expense to guys who exploited the system to enrich themselves, bankrupted the company and nearly destroyed the entire financial system?
They don't. Of course, the guys getting retention bonuses at AIG weren't the ones who exploited the system, bankrupted the company, etc. They're the cleanup crew. -
I have 3 friends, and two relatives who have lost their homes, and jobs within the last 6 months.
Sounds like they seriously overextended themselves. I'm guessing California? Maybe Arizona?
I've been unemployed three times, each time for more than three months. I never came close to losing my home, or even missing any payments on my cable bill. If you live paycheck to paycheck with no reserves, well, that was your decision. -
I've been unemployed three times, each time for more than three months. I never came close to losing my home, or even missing any payments on my cable bill. If you live paycheck to paycheck with no reserves, well, that was your decision.
And you asked why the slap was necessary. Maybe it has something to do with the emotional claptrap you so clearly decided to share -
I am trying to respond. Give me a minute.
-
I apologize for the delay. I was passing along your sound Financial Advice to all the poor folks I know. "The large forclosure rates, and high employment rates are do to the lack of planning by the ignorent people in the United States" Did I get it right. I want to be sure you get credit for fixing all of the economic problems in the United States. If you would take the time to read the blog you would see that I did not loose my home, and the state was OHIO. And, you do not worry your little head, it would take a lot more than an anonomous blog to hurt my feelings. I never stoped to realize that middle class americans could have prevented this problem if they were more like you. Thank you for helping me sleep better at night. By the way, how is the economy in your little world?